Talk:Swiftblade (3.5e Class)

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Why should this page be deleted? I just recently started on it, but I am working on it a lot.

Probably jumping the gun a bit. But don't worry. Things don't get deleted until that template has been on the page for two weeks, without any constructive/explanatory edits made to the page. Dragon Child 12:42, 6 June 2009 (MDT)
In a nutshell, you really shouldnt put classes on the wiki until they are mostly finished, according to Green. See Here
Hm... I never saw that. Whoops. I am going to finish this though. --Axaj 16:53, 6 June 2009 (MDT)


First of all, if you're not done yet, I apologize. It looks like you're pretty much done mechanically, though. Here's what I think.

  • Typical first level problem here. You're a first level character, and you... do what? Absolutely nothing interesting. In fact, you're not even helpful to the group. You have less AC and HP then a fighter, are down a feat, or if you're NOT down a feat then you're down damage. You have no interesting choices to make, and you can't contribute to the party at all.
  • Then you give out TWF at second level. Is the character supposed to run around with a greatsword for the first level? No? Then give them TWF at level 1. Make sure people don't have reason to suddenly switch combat styles.
  • Two Weapon Defense is, overall, a pretty bad feat and near-useless at higher levels when you can just buy a floating shield. You ought to give it a scaling bonus.
  • What use is slow fall when you can fly?
Extremespeed should really be two words.
  • For Extreme Speed, If you say "creature", undead and constructs are automatically included, and people turned to stone or not. The ability is really unclear. Are you only making a single mainhand attack roll each? Do you provoke AoOs? Do you have to roll tumble to even get through the square? If you tumble to avoid AoOs, is that movement speed then reduced as the norm of tumble? Is this one attack roll only? If I pass through someone's square multiple times, do I get multiple attacks? What if they have a Face of 2 or more? Can I do this while flying? All these need to be answered.
  • I'm assuming you mean Extreme Speed to only make one attack. In any case, that's not very clear. It's also not a good idea - if it's only a mainhand attack, then you're better off weilding a greatsword.
  • In fact, there's no reason to use TWF at all. It's simply not a good style unless you gain some sort of flat bonus damage that you just aren't getting here.

Hate to say it, but this class is just not good. It doesn't have any abilities that are really interesting, and is extremely, cripplingly weak. It can't do much against monsters. Right now, as it actually exists, it's better off as a feat. A single feat for extreme speed, and... that's it. You need to add more useful and interesting class features, a bit extra punch, some source of damage. Dragon Child 20:51, 6 June 2009 (MDT)

Yeah, I'm not quite done yet. Thanks for your opinion, though. Also, Slow Fall is for antimagic fields. --Axaj 12:35, 7 June 2009 (MDT)
Alright, apologies. The power thing can be ignored, but I'd still consider making sure that the class uses the style you want them to as soon as first level, and that the class features encourage that style. Dragon Child 13:01, 7 June 2009 (MDT)
I just edited, is it better now? --Axaj 13:20, 7 June 2009 (MDT)
The only confusion I have is if the extremespeed extra attacks include those from multiple BAB. Otherwise, much! Dragon Child 13:35, 7 June 2009 (MDT)
Yes, they do (fix'd). Are there any other problems? --Axaj 20:29, 7 June 2009 (MDT)

Hello, I really like the concept of this class. I've look at this class a few times and enjoy the concept, but had a few alternative ideas for it: 1) This character is going to die before they progress. On the one-hand I like that there is no armor for this class, but AC bonuses are low. Given the rest of the class, maybe start with the swashbuckler ACF from PHII (Shield of Blades I think) which would give +2AC any round they attack with 2 weapons and keep dodge bonus at level 4. Maybe +1 int modifier /2 class levels. Another thought is to mimic the Swiftblade PrC and give them a miss change for attacks and spells that improve with levels (but are still vulnerable to true seeing and do not stack with other miss chances).

2) That's a whole lot of attacks in the end and not many in the beginning. Since the concept is to shoot forward unleashing blows at supernatural speed, why not replace times per day with +x (1 at lvl 2, 2 lvl 6, 3 at ll) attacks and +y penalty levels with a penalty to all others allowing for additional off-handed as the maximum number of hits. Limit the number of hits to 1+x/5 ft traveled. The distance traveled/day increases at 5ft increments. Requiring using two finessable weapons, no armor, and allies in the way get hit too. I think this should make you fatigued (at least at first) for a round and maybe limited to uses per encounter. So at level 6, you would have 2 attacks from BAB and 2 from class feature and x becomes a bonus of 2 for extremespeed. This means you can make a total of 6 attacks with extreme speed, a maximum of 3, minimum of 1 attacks per 5 foot to a max of 20 ft/ encounter being fatigued after each use and only perhaps not proviking AoO.

3) The Str bonuses to off-hand seems to be counter to point of weapon finesse.

4) You need more power. Consider a scaled down skirmish (perhaps at levels 1, 5, 9, 13, 17 OR 3, 7, 11, 15, 19= +3d6 +2 AC by 20) (maybe limited weapons or only during extremespeed).

5) Might be fun to create a multiclass feat that would stack skirmish with extremespeed, fly, and AC (or maybe the scout movement bonus apply to extremespeed distance). Or a multiclass feat for Swordsage stacking discipline focus, initiator level & their initiative bonus with extremespeed, fly, and movement (which actually undoes the AC and Str problem above when using a shadow hand discipline stance and the shadow hand strike feat).

6) It does not make sense that you have an improved chance to hit when making more attacks. I recommend removing the + to hit and adding a penalty to hit during extremespeed (which you might make lessen as the class progresses). On that note, full BAB is generous...

I want to say I really like this class! All of my comments are intended to be helpful suggestions. Thanks.


Power - 1/5 I give this class a 1 out of 5 because it is in no way balanced. You cannot have a class do something better than a class that's suppose to be the best at it. Example: Monks. Monks gain their many physical boosts through discipline, practice and meditation. This class gains quick movement, slow fall, Evasion (and therefore Imp. Evasion), Uncanny Dodge (and Imp. Uncanny Dodge) and bonus AC - all of which are abilities as per Monk- and ALSO get to fly, get 6 bonus feats all focused on two weapon fighting AND a class ability that essentially removes ANY penalty for dual-wielding. With a fighter's attack bonus. At the end of the road, this class can make 8 attacks against every person within reach for 40ft with a +10 to each attack without provoking Attacks of Opportunity. The bonus to attack with Extremespeed is insane, and not in a cool way. Tell me that's balanced.-- 05:55, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Wording - 3/5 I give this class a 3 out of 5 because while it does describe the abilities well enough to use, there are no justifications written in for the abilities. Some of them really need that justification. -- 05:55, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Formatting - 4/5 I give this class a 4 out of 5 because for 3.5 D&D, this is a decent formatting. Everything is organanized well, and doesn't make any one level too crazy, with the obvious exception of level 1. Besides fixing level 1 (and the rest of the class), it seems well set up. -- 05:55, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Flavor - 0/5 I give this class a 0 out of 5 because there is no flavor. It was literally skipped.-- 05:55, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

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