Talk:Sublime Ninja (3.5e Class)

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I was wondering if anyone could rate this class for me. I do admit that it gets quite a lot of features relative to the other martial adepts on top of full sudden strike progression, but let's face it, SS is nothing compared to sneak attack, and no one has ever said the class was overpowered or broken, but then again, I'm still uncertain.

To be frank, I'd like the ratings so I can make the changes necessary for the possibility of being considered a featured article. As it is, it's not ready, but I'd like this class to be a featured article some day down the road.

Nonethless, I could really use the feedback. It would be beneficial. Thanks. --Hanzo187 17:07, 26 March 2008

I would suggest adding more link to SRD and other abilities on the page (sudden strike etc,).--Lord Dhazriel 22:30, 6 April 2008 (MDT)
I can't find where it says how the Sublime Ninja refreshes its manuevers in combat. --TK-Squared 08:40, 7 April 2008 (MDT)
Thanks for the help so far. I linked the rest of the abilities, such as sudden strike and evasion. Also, TK-Squared, the ki charge is what you're looking for. I added a (Refreshing Maneuvers) bit just for clarity. Once again, thanks for the help. --Hanzo187 19:26, 12 April 2008
mid base attack, fine, sudden strike, ok, pushing the limit, monk ac, really, really close, and maneuvers. So what this looks like is the ninja class with Ki striped out, and replaced with maneuvers, it is quite powerful, but i don't think it crosses the line to over powered, but there may be some potential for abuse. If someone asked to play this in my game, i would very carefully go over, then probably allow it. I hope that helps (rating 8/10[I like it, and it's balanced, but it's not original enough for a 10]) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ganre (talkcontribs) 16:23, 27 April 2008 (MST). Please sign your posts!

One thing, that stealthy strike would be much better here than over at your reworked ninja, and also the favored maneuver should only work on lower level maneuvers because being able to do 100 fire damage to everything every turn is a bit overpowered... just a bit xD --Pyrofreek 10:05, 26 May 2008

Chaotic Evil[edit]

I don't think Chaotic Evil necessarily means lack of self-control. Sure, the stereotype is "Rargh! Me smash!", but that's not the only way to do it- just as "I'm better than all of you so you should all do what I say" isn't the only way to play a Paladin.

For example, consider the following- a killer who enjoys luring random people into dark alleys and stabbing them in the back, and gets a rush from murdering someone for no reason. They hone their skills, train, and perhaps only indulge themselves when it's safe- but the core of their personality is CE (killing people for no reason= Evil, doing it randomly when the mood takes them is Chaotic). CE is often played badly, but I don't think the class should penalise the people who can do it well. MorkaisChosen 10:04, 16 May 2008 (MDT)

Chaotic evilness also represent the complete lack of self-discipline. They are not necessary bloodthirsty but most are decadent, greedy and as you said random. All chaotic lack-discipline and don't follow order well. You are right, chaotic evil shouldn't have this class forbidden.. but all chaotic should be unable to take level in this class. To reach perfection we must have self-discipline, self-control (example: how do you want to control ki if you can't control your own anger?) what most chaotic lack. Not all chaotic lack self-control, not all chaotic lack self-discipline but most do and those that do, do it hardly. Like the monk, this class need at least some discipline and focus (a bit less than the monk, that why the alignment shouldn't be restricted to Lawful). Overall, this class should be open to non-chaotic only.--Lord Dhazriel 09:08, 18 May 2008 (MDT)
Hey there. Now onto the serious stuff: Alignment has always been, in my mind, one of the most confusing things in D&D because it's subjective. One might think of LG as evil because the paladins tend to be intolerant, which is not a good trait. As for chaotic, I've always believed it to mean you disregard law if you view as a detriment. CG will obey the law if it means not bringing harm to the innocent. Jack Sparrow is a textbook example of CN, yet he still follows a set of principles, even if they're not the most savory.
CE, on the other hand, shows to me no regard for life or law or even friends. The other chaotic alignments show at least some devotion to a principle or a person and will have discipline if they believe it better for other or themselves.
I guess I might be blowing hot air, but since alignment is such a confusing area, it's hard to get a proper gauge on it. Nevertheless, I understand what is being said. We'll see. I have other changes to make before getting into alignment. --Hanzo187 17:21, 24 May 2008


Another suggestion... The idea of alignment-restricted schools is good, but why Desert Wind for lawful Ninja? Tiger Claw for Chaotic makes perfect sense, but I think Diamond Mind would make a better Lawful-only school (it requires focus and concentration, which are fairly Lawful traits- look at Monks!). The other advantage of doing that is that both schools have some strikes that make the opponent flat-footed against that attack- very good choices for the Sublime Ninja! MorkaisChosen 08:44, 18 May 2008 (MDT)

Figured I'd get that response. The truth is, the fourth discipline originally was a homebrew discipline from another user on the WotC boards. The discipline was called Hidden Door. It was very counter-oriented, and I was given permission to use it, but after a while, I didn't like including it because it was his work and not mine, so I switched it to Desert Wind. Not the best choice, but a servicable one. If looking at this purely from a flavor perspective, just say that lawful ninja are shining the light of the law on their enemies. That's really the best I can think of. --Hanzo187 17:21, 24 May 2008
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