Talk:Spellfused (5e Class)

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Hello everyone, Holic here.

I made this because I love breaking the rules, so sue me.

No seriously, I actually want to make this balanced and playable alongside other classes, so help me !

... please ?

Haha ! Ok, so I'm really hesitating between keeping and removing either Cantrips or/and the Fighting Stances.

Since Cantrips, well, what's the point of them when you can cast other spells without spell slots ?

And Fighting stances because I don't like to borrow from other classes.

However, this is meant as a hybrid caster-fighter, so some kind of weapon ability is needed.

As you'll notice, it is meant to be a very flexible class that adapts well to any background and any combat style. It is also very customizable as you level up instead of being customized at the beginning and then just roll with it all in a straight line.

I do want to keep that.

What do you people think ? (please just tell me to remove cantrips, I don't know why I'm hesitating!)

Thanks to all who participate ! --Holic (talk) 16:08, 4 December 2017 (MST)

Page Review[edit]

Hello Holic, and welcome to the wiki! I want to let you know that I really like the idea of this class, and it reminds me a lot of 3.5's rendition of the warlock. It's very interesting to see a class that casts only a few select spells, but casts them at will, an unlimited number of times. Having said that, though, there are a few things about the class that I take issue with and could probably use tweaking.

  • I notice that they have proficiency in both Constitution and Wisdom saving throws, both common saving throws. No first-party class grants both saving throws; they always grant one common save (dex, con, wis) and one uncommon save (str, int, cha). I would recommend changing this class' Wisdom save proficiency with Intelligence or Charisma, as several effects that in 3.5 required a will saving throw now instead require an Intelligence or Charisma saving throw.
  • If this is meant to be a class focused heavily on spellcasting, I don't think it makes a ton of sense for it to have proficiency with all martial weapons.
  • I'm not entirely sure what Bindings of the Past and Future are supposed to do. By an "ability", do you mean a skill?
  • The spell progression feels a bit weird. I feel like 3rd level is still too early to get an at-will 1st-level spell, and you don't get a second 1st-level spell until 11th level? I would recommend changing this to two or even three cantrips at 1st level to give a bit more versatility, another cantrip at 3rd level, and not actually get a 1st-level spell until 5th level, getting their second at 6th level, getting a 2nd-level spell at 7th level, and so forth.
  • Speaking of at-will spells, there is potential for abuse if as one of your spells you choose a spell like cure wounds. Since you can cast your Spellfused spells at will, you can cast Cure Wounds several times on each of your allies between battles until you're all at full health, which breaks hit die economy. Perhaps consider not allowing characters to choose spells that restore hit points?
  • Soul Focus' last two bullet points aren't making a ton of sense to me. What triggers the reaction that you use to cast the spell that normally takes a bonus action? What purpose would it serve to cast, say, counterspell as a bonus action when you don't have a spell to counter?
  • Soul Remnant's Remanence has the same problem that Bindings have.
  • Gaining at-will plane shift is very powerful as a capstone, since it can be used as a very potent save-or-die effect. This may be considered too powerful; perhaps consider allowing it to be cast only on willing creatures?
  • Gaining Animal Handling and Insight proficiency upon multiclassing into Spellfused seems rather nonsensical.

Overall, this still needs some polishing, but it's a really cool concept that has a lot of potential. — Geodude671 (talk | contribs | email)‎ . . 19:59, 4 December 2017 (MST)


Reply to Geodude[edit]

First of all, thanks a lot !!! This is the first serious/structured feedback I've had since I started creating stuff on the Wiki !

Okay, now the nitty-gritty stuff point by point :)

  • Starting saving throw proficiencies are a bit on purpose since at level 2, Bindings of the Past gives a saving throw proficiency in the player's choice of STR, DEX, INT, CHA (I'll correct my wording, thanks). This is to allow for more customizability by the players who might want to go more Str or Dex warrior for example.
  • Spellcasting & Combat : The idea is to make a hybrid : A fighter that can cast spells of low level and variety but without spell slot limitations, as if they were all racial attributes or special blessings. The extremely low variety of spells kind of makes me think that this would be a difficult class to play if it did not have access to some measure of weapon combat ability. Hence the martial weapons proficiency. However, this could be changed for additional combat-oriented skills within the class evolution... What do you think ? I'd also like your thoughts on the "Fighting Style" part and whether or not to replace it with something else.
  • Lvl 2 : Answered at 1st point :) I'll change the wording to saving throw.
  • Spell Level up : I totally agree, I want to smooth out the level up curve as much as possible, and it is rather hard with this particular class, since a new spell means a ton of additional power ! Using Cantrips to smooth out the beginning seems a good idea, I'll try that ! Thanks !
  • Hit Point restore : fair point, okay, got it. I have a question : would being limited to casting healing spells up to proficiency bonus times per day be ok ?
  • Soul Focus : True, the last 2 points don't necessarily make sense with all the spells, especially for reactions... But I kind of want to leave the possibility open ? I don't know, I feel the possibility might inspire some fun crazy new thing in the game. Like casting hellish rebuke on your turn as a bonus action and whenever you get hit. Counterspell as a bonus action could be used to counter another counterspell against a spell you cast with your action. Convoluted I know, but finding convoluted crazy stuff like that is part of the fun of D&D for me. Still, I agree with you so... How about we leave it for now unless we find a way it can be abused that's bad for the game ? Not working with everything seems not enough a reason to remove it ? What do you think ?
  • Soul Remnant : Done ! :)
  • Lvl 20 Planeshift : Aha ! ... yes, I think so too... But I love the Idea of it !!!! ... I'll change it to willing creatures like you said because I know you're right.
  • Multiclassing : How about Arcana and Insight ?

Thank you very much for the advice ! I hope to have another feedback ^^ ! --Holic (talk) 04:26, 5 December 2017 (MST)

Re[edit]

Thank you very much for being receptive to feedback. I do have some more:

  • I feel like the rate at which saving throw proficiencies are gained is too fast. Consider that, typically, you can't get a third saving throw proficiency until 4th level (with the Resilient feat), and if you're not playing with feats, the only way (to my knowledge) to gain more than two saving throw proficiencies is to be a 14th-level monk. I haven't playtested this class so you may have more of an idea of how balanced the additional proficiencies are, but my first thought is that this is too powerful at such a low level.
  • Okay, I think I now understand your intention to make this a sort of "gish" class. Definitely a cool concept, and taking that into consideration, I don't think the Fighting Style feature needs to be changed at all :)
  • The spell progression does seem a lot better now, though I would have liked to see the class keep its 10th-level cantrip, since first-party spellcasters tend to gain more cantrips as they level.
  • I'm afraid putting a limit on the number of times per day you can cast healing spells would defeat the class' purpose of casting a few select spells an unlimited number of times. The ban would be on specifically spells that restore hit points; spells that grant temporary hit points like false life or heroism would still be able to be cast infinitely.
  • I'm sorry, I'm afraid I still don't understand your explanation of Soul Focus. If you're casting hellish rebuke as a bonus action, what exactly are you rebuking? If you cast counterspell as a bonus action, what exactly are you countering. Note that you can already cast these spells during your turn in reaction to being attacked or a spell having been cast.
  • With regards to multiclassing, what I found strange was that the class grants any skill proficiencies at all. A single-classed spellfused has only two skill proficiencies from their class, and the only first-party classes that grant skill proficiencies upon multiclassing into them are the classes that grant three or more proficiencies. I was thinking that multiclassing into the spellfused class should grant proficiency with simple and martial weapons and light and medium armor, following the example of first-party classes like the ranger.

Geodude671 (talk | contribs | email)‎ . . 10:16, 5 December 2017 (MST)

Re-re[edit]

  • ST Proficiencies : Yep, agreed. I changed it to skill proficiency at level 2, but it kind of makes for a lot of skill gains with the triple Soul Memories and the Soul Remnant Archetype's Recall... Any suggestions ?
  • Class Concept : Cool ! And thanks :) .
  • Cantrips : Okay, kept the lvl 10 Cantrip.
  • Life Restore Spells : Okay, I figured so as well.
  • Soul Focus : Hmm... It might be too vague and un-useful an idea. Since bonus actions and reactions are limited in a turn (usually to one each unless Action surge or something else comes into play), the idea was to give options for some spells to be used differently. I removed it for now, we'll see later if we find a reason to put it back. The flexibility I imagined might need a total rework or at least re-wording of all concerned spells, so let's not go there. ^^'
  • Multiclassing : I admit I had not given much thought about multiclassing... ^^' It's done.


Extra : Changed a few wordings like the sentence in the headband note. As for the "Missing ability, skill references and the likes." I'd love to fix it, but I'm afraid I'm too new to know how... I imagine it's giving links in the {{... format ? But I don't know all the codes that lead to the right pages. I did what I could. --Holic (talk) 09:36, 6 December 2017 (MST)

  • Back to the starting saving throw proficiencies, I still think WIS CON is more in line with the concept, but I guess it would be WIS CHA if I had to follow the first-party class rules... what do you think ? Is it a must to do as you advised in your first post ?
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