Talk:Shaman (3.5e Class)
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I very much like this class, but I just have a question about the Wild Shape ability- is it, apart from the ways stated, the same as a Druid's Wild Shape? For example, does it preclude spellcasting without the Natural SPell feat, and does Wild armour retain the bonus when the Shaman is Wild Shaped? MorkaisChosen 06:52, 2 June 2007 (MDT)
- Apart from the ways stated, yes. It gets all the perks of Druidic wild shape, with the only limitation that you can only change into the species of animal that you have as a spirit guide. Like a druid's wild shape, the shaman's also subsumes verbal spell components into growls and other animal noises, and is able to cast spells. About Wild Armor, I'm not really sure; haven't thought about it yet. I'd say just mimic the druid's wild shape in that regard. --Sulacu 07:44, 2 June 2007 (MDT)
- I can make the following statement in all honesty, because I have been studying the aspects of shamanism for quite some time now, and in sticking with formal tradition, I have a recommendation a couple recommendations to make:
- I would also, at some point through the levels (ie. lvl 15-18, and 21-22), consider adding-to/altering the final attained Wild Shape ability to be just as the druid's, in that they are allowed more than one specified form (such as the current Spirit Guide-related shape ability seems to work). I say this because every shaman is listening to more than one animal and plant at any given moment, and often it is not unheard of to have more than one spirit guide/animal guiding and/or working with you as you progress in your work. I would recommend allowing a high-level Shaman to be able to change into other forms aside from his Spirit Guide, and remain with the ability of a low-level druid beyond that.
- Also, a large part of being a shaman is being able to enter, walk through, manifest, and entertain knowledge of the Spirit Realm. I would consider adding Knowledge (the Planes) and Lucid Dreaming (Wis) as class skills if they are not already there. Perhaps a low-use (1/day) ability of Astral Projection (SRD Spell) might even be in order. I wouldn't be afraid to put these into the Epic level slots, believe it or not. I might even consider replacing a Bonus Feat for the ability to project oneself into a mental/spiritual realm of thought/existence. ;) Plus, where is the drumming, rattling, singing, dancing? Did I overlook the Perform skill, or is there an equipment list that I might not have seen? -- xido 01:45, 9 March 2009 (MDT)
Completed (More or Less)
I think I'm done with tweaking this class. As far as I am concerned it is done. The only thing I am still debating is whether I should keep slow BAB progression, or substitute it for medium. Otherwise, it's all done. Does anything else still need to be done to stop it being flagged? --Sulacu 07:48, 2 June 2007 (MDT)
Get rid of an extra space after the italicized section, before "Game Rule Information", and after the class skills.
- All the class features should not be headers, make them just bolded and on the same line as the fist bit of the class feature. If you want them to be linked from the table use HTML span id's.
The Spell List should be after all the class features under its own L2 header (like class features). Also, all the spell levels need to have their own header (L3). For an example as to what I mean see the Red Mage (DnD Class) spell list. Make sure all the class features only have one blank line before and after them. Again, make sure all the class features are on the same line as their headers. Make the "Epic Shaman" a L2 header with its class features being an L3 header. Format the epic class features like the normal class features should be formatted. Make sure 2 blank lines are present before the "Back to" footer
- After all this is done Template:Wikify should be able to be removed. Please remove it once all this is done as I will not be here to remove it. --Green Dragon 09:54, 2 June 2007 (MDT)
- Think I've done everything. Except span ids; I'm a bit of a novice still, so I'm not really sure how. --Sulacu 18:12, 2 June 2007 (MDT)
- All that is left to do is add span id's. I have added span id's to the first level class features, look there and copy that to the normal class features. So far this is looking a lot better, good work :). --Green Dragon 11:42, 5 June 2007 (MDT)
Revised for balance and ease of use. Also, done span iding, after about half a year. x.x --Sulacu 09:30, 11 November 2007 (MST)
Featured Article Nominee
Please feel free to re-nominate it once it meets the FA criteria and when all the major issues brought up in this nomination have been dealt with.
I would like to nominate this page as a featured article, having spent quite a lot of time getting it up to smack and evening out the edges. I feel that the shaman class has become fairly balanced and would like to see what other people think of it. Eventually, I might require to put in more fluff, and to add a section detailing the creation of a shaman. --Sulacu 15:25, 26 March 2008 (MDT)
Comment - Like I mentioned on Deviant (DnD Class) in my opinion the image looks better at the bottom of the infobox rather than the top apart from that I my quick skim of the article didn't pick up any other suggestions I shall read the article properly in the next few days and let you know what I think. --Hawk 07:43, 28 March 2008 (MDT)
Comment — This needs an example NPC. --Green Dragon 12:58, 29 March 2008 (MDT)
Power - 3/5 I give this class a 3 out of 5 because... We all know druids are overpowered. This class is basically like a sorcerer variant of a druid though so it only seems right to directly compare it to a druid.
- 1st level: 1 more 1st level slot, spontaneous casting, animal spirit guide, no animal companion, more restrictive spell choices (you can't just choose from a massive list). --> this level seems balanced enough. You get some more spell slots and some circumstantial bonuses in exchange for a wolf that trips opponents.
- 3rd level: 3 more spell slots, no trackless step (yet), no companion advancement. Still seems like a fair trade-off.
- 5th level: Natural armor +1, +1 weapon, 2 free metamagic levels. Loses 3rd level spells (ouch), wildshape (ouch). This is where the power curve of the druid takes over.
- 7th level: Now you have an animal companion that overtakes the druid around level 16 (otherwise it is a bit weaker). 4th level spells vs 3rd level though.
- 9th level: You can make you summon spells as good as a druid. I guess the bump up does even this level out a bit.
- 11th level: 4th level spells vs. 6th level spells, but a cool wildshape variant.
- 13th level: 5th level spells vs. 7th level spells, compainion boost.
- 15th level: 6th level spells vs. 8th level spells -- another summon boost.
- 17th level+: 6th level spells vs. 9th level spells. Ouch.
I'm not so sure this class would be unbalanced if you took out the summoning boost and made the spell progression like a sorcerer. I'm sure you know that the spell power curve is exponential. 9th level spells are just that much better than 6th. The bonuses to make up for those loss of spells just doesn't seem worth it (even the 10 metamagic levels you get). Getting spells 1 level slower, plus some abilities slower (as the class currently is) seems like a good balance to me. --Aarnott 11:04, 14 April 2009 (MDT)
Wording - 4/5 I give this class a 4 out of 5 because:
- Spontaneous Casting class feature is unnecessary to list separately right? Maybe just say that they gain summon natures ally 1-6 as a free known spell.
- Ritual of Investiture, part 3 you refer to Constitution checks, but then call them saves. You should change the "save" terminology to checks.
Seems good otherwise. --Aarnott 11:04, 14 April 2009 (MDT)
Power - 4/5 I give this class a 4 out of 5 because <<<This is basically a spontaneous casting druid, the druids sorcerer.>>> --18.104.22.168 04:18, 30 November 2011 (MST)
Wording - 2/5 I give this class a 2 out of 5 because <<<Ive noticed some redundancy, in one section its mentioned that "the shaman does not need to prepare spells in advance" then later mentions "the shaman can cast summon natures ally spell spontaneously".... of course it can they dont need to prepare in advance.... >>> --22.214.171.124 04:18, 30 November 2011 (MST)
Formatting - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because <<<the formatting was fine by me.>>> --126.96.36.199 04:18, 30 November 2011 (MST)
Flavor - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because <<<a nice twist on classes.>>> --188.8.131.52 04:18, 30 November 2011 (MST)
Recomendations I recomend some reworking of the class. rather than a replacement of the druid or "extra" starting class this would be better as a prestige class, perhapse a "limited requirement prestige". Also just have the class use the druid spell list. and just add to druid spell levels. another recomendation; the required alignments are too restrictive. why cant a shaman be LN or CN ? does LN not speak of commitment ? personally i feel a better alignment sprad would be NG, LN, CN, or NE. but not allowing true neutral. Learning new spells; (Recomended change), instead of the 8hr hardline for con checks how about a level based multiplier. IE; 2hr per spell level;
0 level 1hr meditation +1 passed con check.
1 level 2hr meditation +1 passed con check.
2 level 4hr meditation +2 passed con check.
3 level 6hr meditation +3 passed con check.
4 level 8hr meditation +4 passed con check.
9 level 18hr meditation +9 passed con check. ect.
each failed con check adds 2hr to the meditation. then make the meditations continuous. maybe even a +1 to the checks for each extra 2hrs meditating.
all in all a fine class, needs some slight mods to fit into my games but a great concept. well done.