Talk:Immortalist (3.5e Prestige Class)
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Power - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because this class is beautifully balanced and quite powerful. On par, I'd say, with some of the best PrC's made to date. → Rith (talk) 01:24, 21 May 2009 (MDT)
Wording - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because everything is beautifully explained (though, in the explianation of the immortalists regeneration ability, you missed the word 'Good' once :D). → Rith (talk) 01:24, 21 May 2009 (MDT)
Power - 0/5 I give this class a 1 out of 5 because of the fact that the class's abilities are completely broken and clumped together. A good way to fix this is to flesh out the abilities more (Don't group poison and disease immunity on the same level) and make it a 10 level class rather than five. No one should be able to achieve true immortality in only five levels. Also, the immunity to soul-binding spells is far too overpowered. --Ashram 20:35, 24 May 2009 (MDT)
Wording - 4/5 I give this class a 4 out of 5 because for the most part, the abilities' descriptions are clear, except for two. One of the few ways to find out a character's "true name" is to research it using the Words of Creation feat from Book of Exalted Deeds. To do this, you have to be good. How can a neutral or evil character obtain their true name? Also, the prospect of a "true immortal" dying and coming back once a year is poorly described. --Ashram 20:35, 24 May 2009 (MDT)
Flavor - 3/5 I give this class a 3 out of 5 because an immortal, whether an NPC or PC, would break the game in several fundamental ways. Firstly, if a villain is immortal and completely immune to all effects, what would be the point of fighting him? The PCs would never win. On the flip side, if a PC was immortal, he would have almost nothing to fear from the DM. The experience would ultimately lessen over time with the knowledge that the PC can't die and the DM can't kill him through normal means. Also, who says that no good character would choose to be immortal? Limiting the class to any non-good removes the chance for heroes to be eternal heroes. --Ashram 20:35, 24 May 2009 (MDT)
- Completely broken? That's totally unfair. The only really powerful ability here is the regeneration, which is gained at a character level of 20. By that level, it just doesn't matter. Soul-binding spells are rarely used, so that's hardly "overpowered". I mean, you're complaining about poison and disease immunity at a level where those effects are rarely, if ever used. It seems a lot of your complaint is that you just don't understand what this PrC does. The PCs CAN fight him, they CAN kill him. He just comes back... like he most likely would anyway. The PCs can die, too. Try actually reading what the PrC does rather than just imagining what it might based on the name. Dragon Child 21:00, 24 May 2009 (MDT)
- Overpowered how? You bring no points, how can this class take on monster or other spellcasting PrCs? Okay it ability to live no matter what is great... wait I remember designing a flaw... I think it called imprisonment and it should totally be available to the PCs and DM by the time the immortalist gain true immortality (he does so at 20th). Anyway if you compare it to official classes, like the initiate of the sevenfold veils and the incantatrix you see the immortalist is actually weak. The class basically give you some undead immunities and a nice little gift once you complete it. They also make good recurring villains, dying with an insane grin. Sound cool isn't it? But in all seriousness, attempt to prove me it overpowered, you see it rather hard. Oh and btw, if the DM feel like killing his PCs he wouldn't allow the class. --Lord Dhazriel 23:21, 24 May 2009 (MDT)
- Throwing my hat into the ring, we tend to play with other classes or prestige classes that allow you to turn into liches or, in one case, a Ghost -- so immortality is really just something that comes along with being that level. I too was concerned about the soul binding immunity, because that's one of the few ways to actually take care of people permanently at that level, but after playing with it for a bit I lost my concern. Surgo 16:06, 25 May 2009 (MDT)
Power - 2/5 I give this class a 2 out of 5 because I gave it such a low rating because at fifth level it is invulnerable to pretty much everything and essentially can't die. Not to mention it also become immortal too. This can be improved by going through and taking out a lot of the immunities immortalists get such as that to slepp, food, water, air, and maybe poison, but certainly remove its "responning" ability so its possible to kill it. --Vrail 00:09, 9 July 2009 (MDT)
- Most things are impossible to actually kill at that level. Nothing wrong with the respawn ability. Surgo 02:14, 9 July 2009 (MDT)
Wording - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because I enjoy how you worded it and think it very much sounds like it cold be real and written in a D&D book somewhere. --Vrail 00:09, 9 July 2009 (MDT)
Formatting - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because there are no major issues with the formatting and you filled in all of the spaces required of you to fill in. Good work! --Vrail 00:09, 9 July 2009 (MDT)
Flavor - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because this class is for the most part completely original, it takes some nice twists on every bodies life dream for their characters ;), and of course how can you not get a 5 out of 5 for this section, the class makes you immortal! --Vrail 00:09, 9 July 2009 (MDT)
- Immortality at Level 20, Immortality at level 6. Who's overpowered now? --TK-Squared 09:21, 9 July 2009 (MDT)
Power - 1/5 I give this class a 1 out of 5 because it provides far too much power for next to no sacrifice, and in far too few levels. This needs to be at bare minimum an Epic Prestige class, it needs to be a ten level class, and there needs to be some sort of power sacrifice to attain it, like the archmage sacrifices to gain power by using up spell slots. --184.108.40.206 11:51, 23 July 2009 (MDT)
Wording - 4/5 I give this class a 4 out of 5 because it overall describes the class well and gives some background. --220.127.116.11 11:51, 23 July 2009 (MDT)
Flavor - 3/5 I give this class a 3 out of 5 because while I can see the appeal, there are methods (Deities and Demigods) for divine advancement that are better suited for gameplay. --18.104.22.168 11:51, 23 July 2009 (MDT)
Why not good?
Seriously, why not? These class's abilities seem pretty balanced, and there doesn't seem to be any metaphysical reason why immortality = bad.
- Well the Immortalist use non-ethical method such as truename manipulation and is generally acting against the natural order of the multiverse. Something most good character would never do, some use the eternal incarnate to achieve very similar goals. --Dhazriel 13:53, 15 September 2009 (MDT)
Power - <<<5>>>/5 I give this class a <<<5>>> out of 5 because <<<insert why you gave the rating and how to improve it>>> --22.214.171.124 07:36, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
Wording - <<<5>>>/5 I give this class a <<<5>>> out of 5 because <<<insert why you gave the rating and how to improve it>>> --126.96.36.199 07:36, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
Flavor - <<<5>>>/5 I give this class a <<<5>>> out of 5 because <<<insert why you gave the rating and how to improve it>>> --188.8.131.52 07:36, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
- Um, this rating isn't very useful. Straight 5's with no explanations just seems to me like you are trying to bump up its rating. JazzMan 16:23, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
Overpowered? I question so
Although many people say it is overpowered, with the exception of it's final true res spell per year, it actually isn't that powerful. In fact you can get most of it's abilities by simply adding the necropolitan template. Which by 15 is a very low cost.
Add in the fact that you need to know your true name, something very few people ever accomplish, and you also have a very brutal entry cost.
Plus people, how often do you seriously have a character die of old age? Regen 10, might seem like a lot, but by the time the NE cleric of darkness gets to level 20, his enemies probably have holy swords for their minions!
The horror of regeneration
Some people just keep forgetting that you do not need the imprison spell to imprision someone. Here is something to think about... We all know than monsters with regeneration are stronger than without. So we tend to believe that it is a nice property for a charcter.. But it is not. Not for a level 20 spellcaster If somebody deals you enough non-lethal damage to make you helpless when you are level 20 spellcaster, than he will be totally able to keep doing so. 10 nonlethal damage per round to a helples target is really no problem..
Big monsters can just swallow you. The bad guy can use you as a living aim for the weapon trainig of their army,... Or throw you into the next vulcano... Or let some minions cut you regrowing body parts away to supply his "all you can eat restaurant..."
You will continue to take non lethal damage.. You will stay helpless, you will not die, you will get no ressurection, and you will have a very bad time...
Power - <<<3>>>/5 I give this class a <<<3>>> out of 5 because <<<never dying is very powerful, though I can see some ways to work around it. Like trapping them.>>> --—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 184.108.40.206 (talk • contribs) . Please sign your posts!
Wording - <<<4.5>>>/5 I give this class a <<<4.5>>> out of 5 because <<<while beautifully made and worded, there was a single sentence that confused me about an ability--reread it and it is obvious.>>> --—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 220.127.116.11 (talk • contribs) . Please sign your posts!
Formatting - <<<4>>>/5 I give this class a <<<4>>> out of 5 because <<<formatted very well.>>> --—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 18.104.22.168 (talk • contribs) . Please sign your posts!
Flavor - <<<5>>>/5 I give this class a <<<5>>> out of 5 because <<<is is extremely interesting and amazing.>>> --—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 22.214.171.124 (talk • contribs) . Please sign your posts!
It doesn't matter how powerful you want true name magic to be if there is something of sufficient power (such as a good with the obliterate option) it removes your character from existence. It unmakes you and erases you from time. Think of it along the lines of them using a big old eraser on your name and you have to deal with it. So yes there are ways for this to die, it just means you either need a favor from a god or to become a god (or get this guy to tick off a god enough) and he will be no more. 126.96.36.199 11:02, 8 June 2013 (MDT)
Power - 3/5 I give this class a 2 out of 5 because the class features are very situational, feel it would benefit from immunity to criticals at the empty 3rd level. This also feels like it's best fit is at higher levels and increasing the entry requirements would balance some of the criticisms of being overpowered --188.8.131.52 11:02, 8 June 2013 (MDT)
Wording - 4/5 I give this class a 4 out of 5 because a little more polish would be golden --184.108.40.206 11:02, 8 June 2013 (MDT)
Flavor - 3/5 I give this class a 3 out of 5 because it smack of you want to be a lich and not evil or not a monk or not a druid and ageless is funky --220.127.116.11 11:02, 8 June 2013 (MDT)
Power - 4/5 I'd like to say that I love the PrC as it is, but there are a few points where I simply don't agree with it:
1.: The "Deathless"-Ability lacks something. In my eyes, the Immortalist should also count as immortal when it comes to Salient Divine Abilities, as they don't count as death effects, but pretty much do the same (at least the instant kill ones). 2.: Since "True Immortality" is supposed to be the final step towards itself, there should be a way to protect yourself from having your true name erased by a pissed god. Maybe by creating a phylactery (or even many) which needs to be destroyed before someone can manipulate your true name... 3.: I also would remove the soul-steal-immunity from "Deathless" and create a little side note at "True Immortality", telling that the soul will resurrect together with the body whether or not the soul is sealed (or you are wiped from existence). This is, however, more of a personal opinion. 4.: In my eyes, the Immortal is a class which focuses on defensive abilities. As such I would entirely remove the base attack bonus, for balancing reasons. 5.: To do something as big as becoming immortal using magic alone, I would suggest to give it a higher spellcasting-prerequisite (maybe the Immortalist should need to be able to cast 8th or even 9th level spells). This, like point 3, is more of an personal opinion and as such had no effect on the rating I gave.
Wording - 5/5 Plain and simple, I like the way you wrote the description. Everything seems to fit right in the world of D&D and to the PrC you are trying to create.
Formatting - 5/5 Well, I don't see anything wrong with it. Granted, you haven't written the sample encounter yet, but as it says "COOMING SOON"...
Flavor - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5. Why? Because it is a great PrC and there is no reason why one wouldn't like to have a character who uses these abilities.
Overall, the only person who actually will be annoyed by this PrC is a Killer-DM, if at all...