Talk:Ghost Monk (3.5e Prestige Class)
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Clarification for Death Glare
General clarification questions regarding "If they fail, they will not attack the Monk, and even if they succeed, they will have a -1 modifier for the first round of combat.". This is referring to Attack rolls, and nothing else, correct? --18.104.22.168 19:48, 1 January 2007 (MST)
- I would interpret it as such. Also, I changed the wording on the Ghost Monk to make it more clear. Is this better now? --Green Dragon 21:52, 1 January 2007 (MST)
- Yeah, you got it right. Sorry about the confusion. The ability was supposed to represent the fact that things attacking a Ghost monk of a certain level get the feeling they really shouldn't.--Cypresslyshra 01:21, 2 January 2007 (MST)
- Needs Improved Unarmed Combat as a prerequisite.
- Weapon and armor proficiencies override the weapon and armor proficiencies of all base classes. Is this intended?
- Prestige classes should not generally give armor or weapon proficiencies.
- Monk armor and fighting style should be listed under class abilities.
- Need a rewriting pass focusing on "standard" D&D language and standard 3E rules. Almost every rule is a variant rule that already exists. Every ability is confusing in this way.
- Tumble and acrobatics bonuses can be given as "automatic ranks". Much simpler.
- Falling: DR equal to Ghost Monk level.
- Joint Lock: please reread the grappling rules.
- No AC improvement. That's a problem.
- No unarmed attack improvement. That's a problem.
- Flow: broken.
- Every other ability listed fights the current rules system and is vague.
In summary: this class reads like an incomplete port from 2E to 3E. The writer needs to reread Monk and along with the entire combat and advanced combat sections, plus a little review of weapon and creature sizing.--Dmilewski 05:56, 14 January 2007 (MST)
- Guilty as charged for the 2E port charge. I'm currently working on correcting this, so when I finally get it figured out I'll respond more in depth and fix the article. Thanks for rating this, and I'm really glad I asked about this before I let one of my players take this as a PrC--Cypresslyshra 23:37, 17 January 2007 (MST)
Amendum: I think I did better this time (see "Rating 2/10" above)
- Added the feat as a prereq
- Not intended and removed.
- See above
- I think I got that right. I looked over all the grapple and disarm rules
- Changed it to automatic ranks
- Done, and I think if fixed that correctly
- It's also intended. Ghost monks are supposed to have bad AC, they're supposed to dodge everything.
- Not intended, And Fixed.
- Too broken to be fixed
- Alright, I hope that works
How's this look?--Cypresslyshra 21:34, 18 January 2007 (MST)
- Ghost Step is still unworkable. Let's take a Monk, Wis 15. At 10th level, he has Wis 17 (+3), a headband for wisdom (+2), 14 ranks in Sense Motive (+14), Skill Focus (Sense Motive) +3, and a feat which helps sense motive (+2), and an item of sense motive (+10). That give his a bonus to his AC of 44 and a Save of +44. Getting skills is WAY WAY WAY cheaper than getting AC or save bonuses in every way, shape, and form. Send this ability back to the drawing board.
- Join Lock: Do you mean character level of Ghost Monk level?
- Take Down: Unclear. "Hold contest" Do you mean he succeeds in starting a grapple, or in an opposed strength check after the grapple starts?
- Acrobat Dodging: Dodge roll??? No such thing. Let's try: when fighting defensively, the ghost monk gets an attack of opportunity against an attacker. If the attacker missed, the monk uses an attack of opportunity to start a grapple check. If he succeeds, the opponent must make an opposed balance check against the monk's grapple check. If the monk wins the check, the opponent is knocked prone and takes damage equal to the monk's unarmed attack.
- Weapon Taking: As an acrobatic dodge, the monk may instead choose to disarm his opponent. He gains the Improved Disarm feat.
- Death Glare: Abusive. Simply use "Fear (SRD Spell)". Some charcter are immune to fear.
- Step Through: Tumble already does this well. Perhaps simply make this Mobility? Or one free square of movement that would otherwise cause an AoO.
- --Dmilewski 10:24, 24 January 2007 (MST)
- Buggerit. I thought I did better this time
- Ghost Step: Maybe just add the Class level to the dodge roll, to represent training?
- Joint Lock: Ghost Monk Level, sorry
- Take Down: The idea is that he begins the grapple, then performs the take down, so the second choice.
- Acrobatic Dodge: That makes more sense, thank you. Although it does not nessicarily knock the opponent prone. All Acrobatic dodge does is allow the Monk to begin any of her offensive moves when being attacked. However, the fighting defensively part was something I forgot, thanks for pointing it out.
- Weapon taking: Ok
- Death Glare: The point of death glare isn't to cause the opponent to run away, it's just supposed to make them reconsider attacking.
- Step Through: Mobility it is.
- Right, I think I'm getting this. --Cypresslyshra 14:19, 24 January 2007 (MST)
- It's coming along. If you think I'm tough, Sledged will really pin you to the wall. It's all for the best. That's how you make a good class. We've already taken your class up to a 5/10, or maybe even a 6. That's a big improvement. After that, it's the little stuff. We'll need some more eyes in here to really bang this class out.
- Don't say "sorry." Say "thanks."
- That actually works better. Thanks for finding that. Now to nail down the rest of it. --Cypresslyshra 15:02, 24 January 2007 (MST)
Umm, isnt Ghost Step the Ninja thing?
I think that is the thing that the ninja class from complete adventurer has that makes it invisable or etherial (I would check my spelling of these things because I dont spell well enough).--Hatman 20:53, 25 February 2008 (MST)
- 1/2 BAB progression. This is concerning because grapple checks work with BAB and that is the primary focus of the class as far as I can see. Should be 3/4 progression like the SRD:Monk. Not to mention that 1/2 BAB is used for classes that are not combat focused such as SRD:Wizard or SRD:Sorcery. --Zhysay (talk) 19:20, 20 July 2013 (MDT)
- Fort and Will having poor saves, compounded by the Ghost Step bonus only effecting Ref saves. Should be all good save progression as per SRD:Monk --Zhysay (talk) 19:20, 20 July 2013 (MDT)
- I also dislike having dead levels (4 and 6) in a prestige class. Perhaps give Uncanny Dodge to level 4, Mobility to level 6 in the progression, and change the current level 8 bonus to Improved Uncanny Dodge. --Zhysay (talk) 19:20, 20 July 2013 (MDT)
Constructive criticism on the class.
Balance - 4/5 I give this class a 4 out of 5 because everything in it is well balanced and makes for a very legitimate prestige class except for one thing, "Death Glare." In concept it sounds very cool and the reasoning behind it makes sense, just try renaming it to something that sounds less evil and maybe limiting it to twice or 3 times per day because if the monk can constantly stare people down and keep them from attacking then it's a bit over powered.
Wording - 4/5 I give this class a 4 out of 5 because although you don't have very many grammatical errors there are some places where it sounds confusing when you're regarding the ghost monk's level because it sounds like you might add the regular monk's level rather than the ghost monk's. Try reading it over and see if you see what I mean.
Flavor - 5/5 I definitely give this class a 5 out of 5 for flavor because it is definitely a cool direction and adds a twist to the monk without straying too far at all to what he is supposed to be. I really like the idea of throwing people around and tossing them on their arse to be able to get an attack of opportunity with a flurry of blows.
Balance - 3/5 I give this class a 3 out of 5 because I feel like adding the Ghost Monk class level is too overpowered, at higher levels he would be able to grapple monsters he has no business grappling and it would make it very difficult from a DM perspective to counter that when balancing encounters. I would recommend make it 1/2 level added to reflex saves and the various grapple checks. I would also recommend changing the ability that gives them standing from prone a free action, I would suggest making it have a -2 penalty to AC for any attacks of opportunity incurred from standing up as a free action. I really like the core mechanic of defensive grappling, I think this is a very cool concept you have come up with here, just a couple thoughts. Seriously, I have to give you Kudos for this, well done!
Flavor - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because This class is very different from other things I have seen, as a martial artist I can really appreciate the actual combat strategy involved here.