Talk:Fallen Angel (3.5e Template)
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The idea has a lot of potential, but the execution is crap so far. The only changes this template makes are hard to explain.
"Dear Angel. Welcome to Hell.
*poof* This is your new Shadowblade and Shadowbow.
*poof* You feel physically stronger but your mind is a mess.
Welcome to the Force, son."
Instead, somebody should write some good flavor text, and analyse the abilities of good outsiders how they must be changed. Healing could become Inflict, damage reduction and Smite changes from Evil to Good, etc. --Mkill 06:20, 18 July 2007 (MDT)
- This may be worth looking into and working on soon. I need a fallen angel template for a baddie in my campaign, this is a fine opportunity. Off hand, I'munsure how to handle the types. Are they evil for the fact they act evil and are now, say, CE? Or do they still have the good subtype for being born of angels? What I see now maybe is forcing them to choose and stick with it, like a neutral cleric does with turn/rebuke. And by choosing you either being fallen angel who still uses the powers of light, or fallen angel who commands hellfire and brimstone instead, you're turn/rebuke choice. In any case I'll come back to this soon if I think of anything. -- Eiji 22:41, 7 December 2007 (MST)
- Huh, that was quick. I express the following:
- Creating a Fallen Angel This template can be applied to an angel, i.e. an Outsider with the Good subtype (referred to hereafter as the base creature)
- Size and Type Size remains the same. It must choose to possess no subtype or gain an Evil subtype instead. This is regardless of their actual alignment, rather, it is an expression on how deep their body has been corrupted by darkness.
- Hit Dice The HD do not change.
- Speed No changes to speed. Its wings, if it possesses any, may change to fit its new form, with black, tattered, or bat wings instead of the typical angellic wings.
- Armor Class No Changes
- Attack Any Good-aligned weapons it may possess become Evil with the Evil Subtype, and lose alignment altogether with no subtype.
- Special Attacks Loses no Special attacks. However if the Evil Subtype is chosen any Good-aligned spells become their evil counterparts. If they choose no subtype they may be unable to cast Good spells due to alignment issues, but otherwise may have access to Good spells.
- Special Qualities A no Subtype Fallen Angel retains their angellic properties in spite of whatever alignment transgressions have come to pass. Those with the Evil Subtype have their's replaced by fiendish resistances, as follows:
- Darkvision out to 60 feet and low-light vision.
- Immunity to electricity and poison.
- Resistance to acid 10, cold 10, and fire 10.
- Able to summon fiends. They must be no more HD than the summoner and
- Protective Aura (Su): Against attacks made or effects created by good creatures, this ability provides a +4 deflection bonus to AC and a +4 resistance bonus on saving throws to anyone within 20 feet of the fallen angel. Otherwise, it functions as a magic circle against good effect and a lesser globe of invulnerability, both with a radius of 20 feet (caster level equals fallen angel’s HD). This aura can be dispelled, but the fallen angel can create it again as a free action on its next turn. (The defensive benefits from the circle are not included in an fallen angel’s statistics block.)
- Likewise and DR normally negated by an Evil type are now bypassed by Good.
- Abilities No changes.
- Skills As base creature.
- Feats No changes unless the feats are made for good creatures, such as Exalted feats. Those may be swapped for alignment-neutral or evil feats as needed.
- Environment Any evil aligned plane.
- Organization As base creature.
- Challenge Rating As base creature.
- Treasure Standard
- Alignment Any Non-Good, usually Evil
- Advancement As base creature.
- Level Adjustment As base creature.
- I have not given this a thorough look-through, just came off the top of my head, but tell me what you think anyway. -- Eiji 23:03, 7 December 2007 (MST)
- My two cents on what it should roughly look like:
- Creating a Fallen Angel
- Acquired template, applied to any outsider with the good subtype and nongood alignment.
- Size and Type Loses all of the following subtypes: good, angel, archon, guardinal, eladrin. Gains evil subtype if evil. Does not gain demon or devil subtype.
- Special Attacks (and qualities? probably should be split) If evil:
- In all of its natural, extraordinary, spell-like, and supernatural abilities, replace all references to evil alignments with equivalent references to good alignments, and vice versa. Replace any positive energy effects with equivalent negative energy effects (turn undead with rebuke undead, cure spells with inflict spells, heal with harm, etc.). Any spells known or cleric domains available are similarly altered.
- If neutral:
- For each individual natural, extraordinary, spell-like, and supernatural ability, the creature may choose between their original "good" ability and the alternative "evil" ability upon gaining this template. They may not change their decisions later. They do not need to make the same choice of good vs. evil for each ability. For example, a neutral fallen solar can choose to replace holy smite with an evil equivalent and still keep heal the same.
- Feats The fallen angel does not gain or lose any feats, but they might lose access to the effects of a feat (such as an exalted feat) or it might function in a different way because of a change in the trait or ability it affects (such as extra turning giving the fallen angel extra rebuking, rather than turning).
- Environment any plane matching their alignment
- Organization Fallen angels may have deliberately left their native plane so they would be free to abandon serving good, or they might have been driven out after they turned from good.
- Alignment Any nongood.
- Anything I omitted (for sake of page shortness) was unchanged from the base creature. I made it either evil or neutral, because if a celestial can morally fall all the way from good to evil, it seems to make sense that it can stop midway at a neutral alignment. Any celestial can become evil even in the base rules (though of course this is very rare). I see this template as a way for their essential being to change to suit their new alignment, replacing their good abilities with evil ones. I personally do not feel they should be able to gain bonus feats to replace feats to which they no longer have access, because that could mean that they could get better feats than the original ones, which would of course make this a strengthening template rather than one to just make an essentially identical evil celestial. --Daniel Draco 10:01, 14 December 2007 (MST)
- Finally got around to this. Really this is your work Daniel, so thank you. -- Eiji 02:08, 6 January 2008 (MST)
Can you actually make a description and update the summary? Thanks. --Sabre070 02:29, 12 November 2008 (MST)