Talk:Enduring (3.5e Equipment)

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Question[edit]

Does this include magical ammunition? --Calidore Chase 07:35, 6 September 2007 (MDT)

Yes. In fact, the reason I made this is so that when magic ammuntion is fired, it doesn't go to waste. --Daniel Draco 07:44, 6 September 2007 (MDT)
Ammunition can still get lost:
... normal ammunition that misses has a 50% chance of being destroyed or lost.
You should specify how to determine whether or not enduring ammunition is lost or not when it misses. Search check? —Sledged (talk) 22:05, 6 December 2007 (MST)
Losing it hadn't occurred to me. Search seems appropriate, but there would be a lot of different modifiers. A brief glance at the DMG shows undergrowth, bogs, rubble, sand, and snow, just to name a few and most in varying degrees. Any suggestions on how to account for all this variance in the difficulty in finding small objects? --Daniel Draco 09:50, 7 December 2007 (MST)
Well, an arrow for a Medium weapon is about the size of a Diminutive creature which grants a Hide bonus of +12. So I'd use that as the starting point. There's also the issue of determining where it landed. You have to be within 10' of the object to perform a Search check. —Sledged (talk) 10:01, 7 December 2007 (MST)
If I might make a suggestion: perhaps players could make an Intelligence, Wisdom, or even Spot check when firing or immediately after firing the arrow to remember or look at where the arrow goes. This could overcome the chance of losing it while not being too easy by increasin the DC when things like darkness, distance shot, and other obstacles come into play. -Valentine the Rogue 19:14, 10 May 2008 (MDT)
That's a pretty good idea...but it did just occur to me that I could just have the DC of the search check be equal to the size modifier of the ammunition to be found, since searching a 5 ft. by 5 ft. by 5 ft. area would be relatively easy regardless of what sort of terrain it is, so all I need to do is determine where it lands (which can be done with the grenade-like weapon rules). Thank you though! If you hadn't said something, I probably wouldn't have thought about this more. --Daniel Draco 19:29, 10 May 2008 (MDT)

Another broken thing[edit]

Moved from User talk:Daniel Draco#Another broken thing

I don't mean to nit-pick, but your special weapon enhancement "Enduring"...

Does it allow you to re-use one heavily enhanced arrow over and over again?

Like a +5 Dragonbane Shock Slaying Arrow fired from a +1 Enduring Bow? Looks like a good archer combo...

--Sir Milo Teabag 21:16, 6 December 2007 (MST)

Yes, and no. It does allow a heavily enhanced arrow to be fired again and again, but the bow itself cannot be enhanced with Enduring. The purpose of it, in fact, is to allow enhanced ammunition to be re-used. --Daniel Draco 21:33, 6 December 2007 (MST)
The description says otherwise:
This enhancement may only be applied to ammunition, bows, crossbows, and slings.
Sledged (talk) 22:05, 6 December 2007 (MST)
Huh, well I thought I made it so that it only applies to ammunition. I changed it to that. Better now? --Daniel Draco 09:50, 7 December 2007 (MST)
You forgot to take off the "bows, crossbows and slings with this enhancement..." line. I've just deleted it. MorkaisChosen 10:18, 7 December 2007 (MST)
I missed that, thank you. --Daniel Draco 13:49, 7 December 2007 (MST)
Phooey, I could have used it... but then again, if I had wanted to use it, I shouldn't have made it public. --Sir Milo Teabag 13:55, 7 December 2007 (MST)

More awesome than previously realized?[edit]

In the case of a group of say 10 to 50 arrows being enchanted together, do arrows and bolts with Tenacious count as throwing weapons (in the sense that they are not destroyed upon use) for the purposes of being enchanted with Returning thereby eliminating the need to perform a search check to recover than and allowing the same 2, 3, 4, or 5 arrows to be used repeatedly in consecutive rounds through virtue of a full attack action? If so, being a ranged unit just got so much cooler because you can reduce the cost of your weapons by half or more by only enchanting a group of 5 arrows to be used every round for a tenth of the price of 50 enhanced arrows. This would be fantastic. Bow of speed, plus improved rapid shot or manyshot, plus full base attack bonus, plus these kinds of arrows means 6 shots at full attack bonus minus 6 (approx. +30 at level twenty) for only 39445 gp. And, throw in a pair of strongarm bracers and you can do as much as 7d6+14 damage with each arrow. 42d6+84 (126-336 AVG:231) damage in a single round! Can you imagine a minimum damage of 158 if ONE scores a critical and a maximum potential damage of 900 on the best day ever (full-damage criticals on every arrow)This is soooo going to be my next character build. :). --Valentine the Rogue 02:28, 3 June 2008 (MDT)

Great thoughts...unfortunately, ammunition is distinct from a thrown weapon. Even shuriken are treated as ammunition for the purposes of enhancements. I could make it so that this enhancement allows the ammunition to be treated as a thrown weapon, but for the reasons you stated, I'm not going to do that. I go for balance in my homebrew, and try to avoid munchkinism. But you could always create your own homebrew enhancement that does that :). --Daniel Draco 06:10, 3 June 2008 (MDT)
Exactly what I was hoping you'd say, though not quite a great way to get around it. Shuriken are treated as ammunition (and therefore can't be enchanted with returning) because they act like ammunition in that they are destroyed when used. --Valentine the Rogue 10:58, 3 June 2008 (MDT)
Hmm...well, I can't think of a flavorful reason for shuriken to not be made normal thrown weapons with this...but with the fact that shuriken, as ammunition, have lower enhancement prices, as well as the damage you calculated up there, it just wouldn't be balanced. Though...would what you have up there work with shuriken? --Daniel Draco 13:52, 3 June 2008 (MDT)
Yes, it would, theoretically, and it could work better, since shuriken (as monk special weapons) can do more damage than an arrow in the right hands. The basic design would be to have a monk apply his unarmed damage to the shuriken (2d10) and have about 5 shuriken enchanted with corrosive, frost, flaming, or shock, returning, and tenacious as well as having a +5 enhancement bonus, costing 20035 gp (200350 gp for 50 +10 shuriken divided by 10). You wouldn't have the added enhancements from the firing weapon, but the damage would still be up there with the 2d10 and applicable strength bonus, though with reduced range. I still think that reasonable DMs should simply diallow this significant loophole and all will be hunky-dorry. --Valentine the Rogue 16:45, 3 June 2008 (MDT)
Oh, forgot to mention the lack of a -6 penalty from the manyshot that let you get 6 attacks, and the fact that only 5 atacks can hapen with greater flurry, unless you get hasted, in which case you have 6, 4 at full bonus. --Valentine the Rogue 16:47, 3 June 2008 (MDT)
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