Talk:Dual Blade (3.5e Class)

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Balance[edit]

Personally i think this class is a bit OP. ist level alone is more powerful than other base classes. free focus, specialization and 2 weapon fighting all in 1 level. and yo still get a char feat or 2. i think it needs a little better pacing or some nerfing. --Name Violation 14:56, 10 October 2009 (MDT)

But what you fail to take into account is the lack of medium or heavy armor, and the inability to use any other weapons besides said specialized weapon. Not to mention the limits on the specialized weapon, 1 bladed, 1 handed, etc. --Desu 20:53, 10 October 2009 (MDT)
Also, you might want to put a stipulation in the bonus feats. There is an argument of bonus feat means any feat, you don't have to meet pre reqs (see the rouge perfect 2 weapon fighting argument). unless you want people to be able to pick epic feats starting at level 5.--Name Violation 02:00, 12 October 2009 (MDT)
That would be a very short arguement in my game. However, what is up with the saves? Have you read the save progression in the SRD. Please do so. Perfect 2 weapon fighting at level 1, gee, sorry mister ranger, i know you spent 21 levels working toward this, but i get the epic feat at level 1. Jump check to deny someone their dex mod, no save, broken. 2 levels on this to deny someone their AC, 3 levels of swashbuckler to add your int to your damage, and spam rogue ad nauseum to pile on your sneak attack(that they can't block due to being flat-footed) --Ganre 03:14, 12 October 2009 (MDT)
Reflections
This has a good focus. Two-weapon fighting and additional attacks. That is a solid focus. Still needs some work though.
  • Trade proficiencies for Power: Broken. Don't do it. Make it work WITH proficiencies.
  • Perfect Two Weapon Fighting: Broken. Must progress with the other feats over all levels.
  • Leaping: An improved charge. Nice idea! But too many penalties. Simplify.
  • Adrenaline Burst: Uber Haste spell? Huh?
  • Ex class penalties: Ouch. Thats rough.
  • Bonus Feats: Haha, someone got bored didn't they.
Ideas: The Ranger and Tenken classes do it best. Should help to learn how they progress and build. If you don't want to nerf it. Then build a Prestige Class! yeehaa! Good luck! --Jay Freedman 20:17, 12 October 2009 (MDT)
I'd like to point out that Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting, and the epic feat with the same name, are not similar. Mine eliminates the penalty, and gives you a single extra attack, the epic feat does not entirely eliminate the penalty, and gives you as many attacks you have with your good hand, to your off hand. Not the same thing. Furthermore, I attempted to look up "save progression in the SRD" and could not find anything. And as for Leaping, there is a high penalty if it fails, which I think balances it out. Final note, I want to point out, Ganre, that I put Editing at "Spelling and or grammar only please." I don't know if you simply ignored this, or did not see it, but you made an edit, despite what I had put for editing. I must say that the saving throws make more sense, and I do think they are better, but you still edited the page despite the writing. The speed nerf was not appreciated whatsoever. --TheDM 3:58, 13 October 2009 (MDT)
I retracted my comments. Its just too much work. --Jay Freedman 19:58, 13 October 2009 (MDT)
The speed nerf you refer to was an attempt to give the class a standard progression on speed increase(generally, when something like that increases in 3.5, it does so at a set interval or pace, for more info, see Monk)--Ganre 05:08, 17 October 2009 (MDT)

you do realize a dual blade almost can't fail his 10th level jump check. His +16 to jumps from a high speed + max rank= +29, and thats without any feats, ability mod, or items. boots of striding and springing make it unfailable... also the speed boost leads to a +40 to jump at 20th level. Not game breaking, but rediculous. at 20th level your average jump check is about 90(40 from speed, 24 from rank, roll 10, 16 from stats/items/misc), which translates to 360ft, or 720 on a double move, which is around 90mph i think. Wack IMHO--Name Violation 06:16, 17 October 2009 (MDT)

I think you get enough with the weapon feats, half skill points for first 10 levels I say.

I see many problems with the balance here.
-"Blade Specialization: During creation, a Dual Blade must pick one bladed weapon. They are now proficient in this weapon, and are treated as having taken Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization with this weapon, and receive a +1 to all attack rolls, and a +2 to all damage rolls. If you cannot physically dual wield a type of blade (i.e. two handed weapon), you may not choose that weapon. Blade Specialization takes the place of the feat you get for being first level."
First of all, this should probably be light weapons only, but that's a lesser matter. Remember that many people won't be taking this class at 1st level; taking the place of a first level feat makes this fairly balanced IF you take it at first, but if you're like me (taking a caster class first to get the buffs), it becomes way too powerful (as I already have the 1st level feat, and this can't take it away again).
-Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting (Ex): (This is not like the Epic Feat Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting) A Dual Blade fights with a weapon in each hand, which allows them to make one extra attack each round with the second weapon. Thanks to this ability, a Dual Blade receives no penalties to dual wielding the type of blades he has specialized in. (see below) Because of this ability, you are not allowed to take any feat that applies to Two-Weapon Fighting.
If this is not like the feat of the same name, you should change the name. Receiving no penalties is a bit much at first level. I'd suggest gaining normal Two-Weapon Fighting here (taking a total -2/-2 penalty with 2 light weapons), and reducing the penalty by 1 at 6th or so level (-1/-1), and by another 1 at 11th level (no penalty for two light weapons). Also, restricting other Two-Weapon Fighting abilities is a bit ridiculous. Maybe you could have two weapon fighting bonus feats, and have THIS ability (the one that lowers the penalty) give no extra attacks; leave the extra attacks to the feats that already exist.
-Speed Boost: I think your speed boost should follow the monk's, to have a specific pattern. Also, I don't think a medium character needs 130 feet land speed; 90 ft. in one move action (as monk) is far enough.
-Extra Attack: Beginning at level 3, and increasing by 1 every three level, a Dual Blade receives one extra attack during his turn. This attack receives a -1 penalty to hit. With every extra attack, the numbers of hit penalty is -1 more. So at level 6, the first two attacks are without penalty, third attack is at a -1, fourth attack is at -2, etc.
This is very complicated. Which hand is he hitting with for this? At what attack bonus (+20/+15/+10/+5). Also, you already have a good attack bonus. With greater two-weapon fighting (3 attacks offhand), you already have 7 attacks in a round. This ability gives you 6 more, being 13 attacks in a round. This is way too overpowered.
-Adrenaline Burst (Ex): Upon reaching level 14, a Dual Blade has such control over his body, that he is able to increase his adrenaline output. Three times per day, a Dual Blade may activate this ability. For 2d4 rounds the Dual Blade chooses one of the following: take two full actions per round, move twice at full movement in one round, or receive two full attack phases in one round. The Dual Blade may choose different actions for different rounds. Upon ending, the Dual Blade is considered Exhausted. An exhausted character moves at half speed and takes a –6 penalty to Strength and Dexterity. After 1 hour of complete rest, an exhausted character becomes fatigued. A fatigued character can neither run nor charge and takes a –2 penalty to Strength and Dexterity. Doing anything that would normally cause fatigue causes the fatigued character to become exhausted. After 2 hours of complete rest, fatigued Dual Blades are no longer fatigued. If a Dual Blade is Fatigued or Exhausted and activates their Adrenaline Burst, they are no longer considered exhausted/fatigued. Once the Adrenaline Burst wears off, the Dual Blade collapses and losses consciousness for 2d6 hours, they do not however, receive any penalties upon awakening.
For 2d4 (average 5) rounds, you get 2 turns at a time. With the above (extra attack), this is 26 attacks per round. Way too powerful.
Basically, this class has a very good idea, but it needs to be balanced out. Rogue The Demonchild 13:01, 2 January 2011 (MST)

Rating[edit]

Power - 4.5/5 I give this class a 4.5 out of 5 because I believe the speed boost on it is not really needed. The rest is quite well balanced, the Extra Attack Special Ability really works with the class. --Divine-Majeh 16:31, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Wording - 4.5/5 I give this class a 4.5 out of 5 because overall the descriptions are mildly bland. --Divine-Majeh 16:31, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Formatting - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because nothing about it needs changing. --Divine-Majeh 16:31, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Flavor - -/5 I give this class a - out of 5 because I do not understand what you mean by "Flavor". --Divine-Majeh 16:31, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Questions[edit]

Discussion moved from User talk:DragonFist#3.5e Class Dual Blade. --Green Dragon 00:34, 23 December 2010 (MST)

Can a dual blade use longswords as his waeapon of choice? and can a half-dragon be a dual blade? DragonFist 11:56, 21 December 2010 (MST)

Since a longsword is a one handed melee weapon, he may use a longsword as his weapon of choice according to the rules presented on the page. Personally, I would restrict players to a light weapon, as that seems more fitting with the class (dagger, katar, kukri, kama, and so on). Since there is no SRD listing for 3.5e Half-Dragon, I suppose it would depend on the homebrew version you are using. As long as the character is Medium, I would say it would be allowable. This would also extend to using a version that has "Powerful Build", or similar class trait. I think a better question is what would happen if someone cast Enlarge Person on a medium sized dual blade? --Badger 18:32, 31 December 2010 (MST)

Saves[edit]

When the comment above mentioned checking out the saves, he meand that your saves are skewed. For slow saves, the 0 base save should only be there for the first two levels. After that, it proceeds to get +1 every three levels. -Lux Blackthorn

Rating[edit]

Power - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because he is freakin OP.

Wording - 4.5/5 I give this class a 4.5 out of 5 because the instructions for the class are easy to follow

Formatting - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because it is well formatted

Flavor - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because it is an interesting and powerful concept


Rating[edit]

Power - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because the ability to attack twice at an opening level really gives this class an advantage on the battlefield. The speed boost also helps keep this character ahead of the the spell casters. --216.125.168.2 12:45, 2 April 2013 (MDT)

Wording - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because I didn't find any errors --216.125.168.2 12:45, 2 April 2013 (MDT)

Formatting - 3/5 I give this class a 3 out of 5 because there could have been more information such as a example character build, starting equipment package, and get rid of blank and not needed information. --216.125.168.2 12:45, 2 April 2013 (MDT)

Flavor - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because despite the very vanilla character (face it this is pretty much a basic fighter that's been injected with adrenalin and enjoys dual wielding), I do enjoy the character very much. I've created a character already for this class, and have enjoyed it greatly. I plan on creating more characters for this class later. --216.125.168.2 12:45, 2 April 2013 (MDT)

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