# Talk:Critical Expansion (3.5e Feat)

### From D&D Wiki

## Homebrew or OGL?[edit]

This has the user category. is it homebrew or from a book? --Name Violation 07:22, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

- This seems way too unbalanced to be from a book. I think it's probably homebrew. Also, on a related note we should add a "needs balance" tag. Think of a High-Dex Build rapier wielder Crit range would be as large as 9-20 x2 (assuming you have a Dex score of 22, which is likely). --Badger 21:47, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

## Balance[edit]

This looks like a very promising feat, but it also looks like it could be substantially broken at higher levels (or in this case, higher Dex modifiers). The idea is a good one, but it needs some sort of limit on it. Possibly giving each successive modifier less of an impact on the threat range, or some such. In short, a diminishing returns effect.

For example, you could use, say, the Fibonacci sequence (I'm just using that one because it's convenient and easiest to follow). In that case, the first increase would require a +1 modifier, the second +2, the third +3, the fourth (here's where it gets interesting) +5, the fifth +8, the sixth +13, the seventh +21, and so on. (Although if anyone has a Dex mod over 21, there are already bigger problems to worry about.)

Alternatively, you could have the crit range boost equal to half of the modifier. That would give increases on +2, +4, +6, +8, +10, etc.; this option is simpler, but has more potential for becoming overpowered.

Another solution would be to set a maximum cap on the range increase, so that the benefit won't continue past a certain point (say, the third crit range increase).

I think that this would really help to make this less potentially broken, while still keeping it useful as a feat. What do you think? Silverkin 18:35, 1 April 2011 (MDT)

- For starters, a Fibonacci sequence is way more complication than it's worth. There's probably no way that this can be balanced so long as it's tied to Dex. Consider that the user has to have Accurate Strike and Weapon Finesse to qualify for this feat. Since their melee attack bonus is BAB + 1.5 x Dex, you know anyone who has this feat is going to max their Dex anyway. A better solution would be that keeps with the spirit of the feat is this: you can add a number to your threat range (up to your Dex bonus), but subtract twice that number from your damage. Dex-based fighters have lower damage anyway since they normally don't have that high of strength, so there's an inherent limitation without having to use any complicated math. JazzMan 09:11, 4 April 2011 (MDT)

- Perhaps make it tied to hit die, like HD/5, and for every +3 Dex Mod you have, you get a +1 threat range to a maximum of +3. In addition, make it so that the threat range has a maximum of 10-20, and make it so that you can only get a ×2 crit + weapon bursts while using the feat. --Salasay Δ 15:52, 14 February 2013 (MST)

- Considering the player needs a Feat that allows you to use your Dex Mod for your Attack Roll, perhaps somewhat more of a balance can be made in terms of what you are using your Dex Mod for?

- Suggest you have a 15th Level Rogue who has +19 Dex. Their BAB is +11/+6/+1 and their Dex Mod is +4. They could apply their Dex Mod to their BAB, giving a total value of +15/+10/+5,
*or*what they could do is siphon off some of their Dex Mod for an increased CTR?

- Suggest you have a 15th Level Rogue who has +19 Dex. Their BAB is +11/+6/+1 and their Dex Mod is +4. They could apply their Dex Mod to their BAB, giving a total value of +15/+10/+5,

- They are using a Kukri, Medium 1d4 with a CTR of 18-20 (x2). They could apply instead only part of their Dex Mod to their BAB, and apply the other portion to their CTR. This would only be applied for the first strike, however as any other strike is likely to be either a recoil, a parry, or a slashing motion which is a bit more erratic.

- This means their +15 BAB / 18-20 CTR could become any of the following:
- +15 / 18-20
- +14 / 17-20
- +13 / 16-20
- +12 / 15-20
- +11 / 14-20

- Since this is really only applied to Light Weapons (Or it should be, at least), the curve is a bit less drastic that it initially sounds because Light Weapons tend to do more so the 1d4 Medium / 1d6 Large range, making them less likely to be "deadly" unless you have stack-able Feats such as Sneak Attack, which honestly is dealing damage completely separated from your actual weapon's damage. A potential "curve" could be that you can not more than double your CTR; A 20 becomes a 19-20, a 19-20 becomes a 17-20, an 18-20 becomes a 15-20, and if for some reason you have the super rare 17-20 (Which I don't believe exist in Light Weapons anyway) that would become a 13-20. This way a character who is playing as a Monsterous Humanoid who gains high Dex Bonus
*(The Gloura from Underdark has a +11 Dex Bonus, for instance; Rolling a 15 for Dex means you begin with 26; a +8 Mod)*can't "power crit" every single attack.

- Since this is really only applied to Light Weapons (Or it should be, at least), the curve is a bit less drastic that it initially sounds because Light Weapons tend to do more so the 1d4 Medium / 1d6 Large range, making them less likely to be "deadly" unless you have stack-able Feats such as Sneak Attack, which honestly is dealing damage completely separated from your actual weapon's damage. A potential "curve" could be that you can not more than double your CTR; A 20 becomes a 19-20, a 19-20 becomes a 17-20, an 18-20 becomes a 15-20, and if for some reason you have the super rare 17-20 (Which I don't believe exist in Light Weapons anyway) that would become a 13-20. This way a character who is playing as a Monsterous Humanoid who gains high Dex Bonus

- There are Feats that allow CTR expansion anyway, so it should be stated that this does not coincide with those, such as Improved Critical, which naturally doubles your CTR. In the case of our Kukri, the 18-20 would have been a 15-20 anyway. Add
*(Subtract)*the +4 Dex Mod and suddenly you've got yourself an 11-20 threat range. Having said that, you must realize you are**NOT**applying the Dex Mod to your BAB, so you still only get the +11, and this**ONLY**applies to your first strike; +11 @ 14-20 (11-20 with IC) / +10 (6 + 4) @ 18-20 / +5 (1 + 4) @ 18-20.

- There are Feats that allow CTR expansion anyway, so it should be stated that this does not coincide with those, such as Improved Critical, which naturally doubles your CTR. In the case of our Kukri, the 18-20 would have been a 15-20 anyway. Add

- Doing this, I feel you've got quite a powerful Feat that is not overbearing in it's use. Any thoughts? : )