Talk:Avariel (5e Race)

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This isn't updated for Fifth Edition. There are no spot checks in 5e, for example, and maneuverability isn't a factor.

I've made the following changes for balance:

  • No flight until 5th level. Can descend safely from heights until then.
  • Removed Perception and Stealth proficiencies.
  • Rewrote Arial Maneuvers. Dodging is already represented by AC, so gave an AC bonus (rather than an extra d20 roll).
  • Removed hollow bones.
  • Changed languages to Common (so they can actually communicate with the other PCs) and Elven, removing the statement in parenthesis as it didn't make sense. Marasmusine (talk) 03:13, 15 April 2016 (MDT)

-I could understand having a 60 ft. fly speed can be seen as "ridiculous," but saying that "Flying as a whole at Lv. 1 makes it OP" can be seen as pushing it. Judging from older editions of Avariel's history, they've have had wings since they were born and considering their lifespans (even if they were reduced to normal Elvish timeframes), would be pretty inconsistent if they spent some decades to a century being able to fly, only to being forced on the ground because of a DM ruling until they reach a certain point. Using TV Tropes lingo, this brings up cases of "Story and Gameplay Segregation" where Avariel are said to be graceful in the air, but the one that decides to tag along, player or NPC and for whatever reason, cannot fly; borderline "Cutscene Power to the Max" where a DM shows other Avariel being graceful in the air and aiding/combating the party from said aerial superiority meanwhile the one Avariel in the party can't do that because they haven't reached a high enough level; and even "You Have Researched Breathing" via, if we follow your idea, once they reach Lv. 5, can suddenly and inexplicably fly despite having their wings since birth. I'm all for some details being nerfed because they could be seen as OP right off the bat don't get me wrong.

Well, flight is much discussed elsewhere, but I'll make two quick notes:
  • The official aarakocra race has a 50 ft. fly speed and that's pretty much it, no other traits of note. WotC at least score flight highly as a racial trait.
  • In adventure design, it's assumed that low-level PCs do not have access to flight. Movement modes (flight, teleportation, burrowing, planar travel, etc) have an assumed entry point that helps designers plan their locations. 5th level is when the fly spell is introduced. Marasmusine (talk) 21:11, 22 March 2017 (UTC)
This is an attempt to translate a 3rd Edition race that was endorsed by WotC when it was released, to 5th Edition. One detail I noticed was "Level Adjustment," where due to the increase in abilities and additional features, and near-similar Racial Traits in some cases, was the EXP increase trade-off (which if I understand correctly) means that a Lv. 1 Avariel Cleric would need EXP equal to a Lv. 3 Human Cleric character. Of course, there doesn't seem to be any form of "Level Adjustment" in 5E, unless/until WotC comes out with an official ruling for it, thus any form of trade-off is up to a DM to decide.
This could also possibly explain why said Aarakocra has so few features: Without a direct Level Adjustment as a native element, they have to cut out possible extra Racial Features to compensate for having one major defining Racial Feature as big as Flying and why translating even older races into a newer edition can raise issues when doing so, homebrew or not. The essence of the Avariel is trying to keep the spirit of what it was in 3E, but with the removal of the Level Adjustment element to maintain balance, 5E becomes a mess to deal with as it adds extra features and abilities that force a DM to otherwise place more consideration on how to deal with having enhanced movement modes and abilities right from the get-go. Nightmares are dreams too... (talk) 23:05, 22 March 2017 (UTC)
This class hasn't seen love in awhile and no discussion since Mar 2017. Is it going to be unbalanced forever? I second Maramusine's ideas. Any way to move this class forward?BigShotFancyMan (talk) 19:05, 21 September 2017 (MDT)
I feel like the current restriction to armor is a cop out. I think it should be cannot fly in medium/armor. also tack on no hovering to help bring the Musicus rating down. Then, this doesn't need subraces. It is already a subrace in my opinion. If you do the last 2 at least, it would be 5-9. Not bad compared to Drow (or any elf), Variant Human, or any dwarf. BigShotFancyMan (talk) 08:41, 22 December 2017 (MST)
I'm fine with those edits feel free to make them. I'll ask Sarg or GA to unlock the page as well. ConcealedLight (talk) 08:47, 22 December 2017 (MST)
Looking it over again I don't entirely agree with that statement. See the recent edits I've done. Also, Fey ancestry is worth 1 point now as opposed to 0.5 due to the immunity to sleep not being counted. This reduces the max score to 10.5, see the encoded comments for a breakdown. ConcealedLight (talk) 23:48, 22 December 2017 (MST)
Ignore the previous comment about Fey Ancestry.

Ignored. Edits look good though. I am playing Aarocokra and I wish it were this instead lol BigShotFancyMan (talk) 08:31, 26 December 2017 (MST)

Typos on the page under alignment. Currently reads "no freedom is quite as great as souring through the sky's" should be "no freedom is quite as great as soaring through the skies"

Schorlars should be spelled Scholars.

Musicus Rating[edit]

Musicus' Meter
Score: 6.5-10
This race scored 6.5-10 with the Musicus Meter race guidelines (score between 4 and 6 to an absolute maximum of 8). This metric may represent this page, or not. This is a guideline, not a rule, and it's important to use your own judgment alongside this scoring.
This scoring may be the groundwork for a focused {{needsbalance}} usage. A contributor to this page may request a detailed breakdown of this page's balance. Without this information, {{needsbalance}} may then be removed. This meter cannot be used to enforce needsbalance templates.
This template should only be placed on a race's talk page. If this template is not placed on the talk page, please move it.


Due to this races flying linked to their proficiency bonus their Musicus Rating will change as they level up. At first level with 20 foot of flying they have a pretty high rating of 6.5 and at 17th level they would have a flying speed of 60 feet making their rating 10. ConcealedLight (talk) 17:46, 21 December 2017 (MST)

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