Talk:Arcane Card Master (3.5e Class)

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Power - 4/5 I give this class a 4 out of 5 because this class seems to be made for a high power campaign. -- 09:44, 1 April 2011 (MDT)

Wording - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because the sentence structure was very good, it made it easier to understand the special abilities. -- 09:44, 1 April 2011 (MDT)

Flavor - 3/5 I give this class a 3 out of 5 because the class seems to be a very good class, but because of the aspect of the class being able to cheat at cards..... it shows that the class is a lot like a gambler. -- 09:44, 1 April 2011 (MDT)

My counter argument for the deletion[edit]

I removed the deletion template because I think most of the points are invalid due to misinterpretation, please respond if you think I'm wrong and why. I'll address the points that have no support first then the point that has valid reasoning. First "the ability to summon and have complete control over anything you've defeated (at some weird % chance). " you do not summon the creature it states that you summon it " like the Wild Shape Ability" which means you transform into the creature and only if you defeated it before and made the roll ( this intent is clearer if you read the class before the last big edit). Second "A free, unstealable bag of holding" this bag is solely for the classes cards (which are soulbond and unstealable) and is even stated in the bag type and description "Extra-Dimensional deck holding Arcane card master's can store there deck's into an Extra-Dimensional pocket and draw a deck/card at will". So at most you may argue you can hid any cards in it even non-class related but that is obviously not the intent and would be mostly pointless anyway.Third "apparently by level 6 you can have a CR 12 monster captured in your deck? Which is insane." yes you can but you must have defeated it first defeated it (which is unlikely for a level 6) and you would only have a 55% of getting it. Fourth "And finally the notorious ability to 'copy' features from other beings, which is not at all clarified well, and inevitably incredibly overpowered." This could be referring to two different sections and I'll give my opinion on both. There is the "Sense Ability" section which gives no info on how he starts coping just if he does and would have to be cleared up, also it is a random ability he can not target a single ability and appears to be single use. The second section they could be referring to is "Soul Devour" which is overpowered... if your DM wants it to be because what you get is entirely up to him/her and so is the "sense Ability" because it's random. Fifth "On top of this, d8 HD" This is supposed to be a utility class meant for party combat, so it does not make sense to be a d4 because then it's not meant for combat, d10 and d12 seems high so d6 or d8 seems like a good median. Now on to the last and valid reason "You prepare spells like a Wizard, but have access to ALL Cleric/Wizard/Druid spells to prepare? At 5/spells day (Or, depending how you read the vague mechanics, up to 50 casts from a chosen pool of 5 spells/day). That alone makes you immensely more powerful than a Wizard, Cleric or Druid." Ill address the vague mechanics first. It's obvious that it means 1 spell to 1 card and not 1 spell repeatedly on many cards "imbue the spells onto cards in his deck (on a one to one basis)" so that is an obvious stretch and any DM who read it would not allow 50 spells at level 1. It states "Any spells from the Wizard, Cleric, and Druid spell list may be imprinted" can be interpreted two ways. First that you get all spells from the beginning which is a valid way of reading it, second is that any spell CAN be imprinted but that does not mean you know them. If interpreted this way then there is no way of gaining spells in the text. Also the class does not get bonus spells because it is not stated and even gives examples of spells through out levels and does not mention extras. Final Thoughts, I believe this class is supposed to be a hole filler, can cast spells, transform to fit combat with souls, and can even slightly tanky. I do believe somethings could be cleared up in the text and could be nerfed or tweaked but it fits a high power game hole filler and does not deserve deletion.

Note, I've noticed some of the things have been changed since the mark for deletion but were nearly the same as they were before the major edit and how I was interpreting it (the edits seemed like they were made vaguer and missing some info that the page had before the major edit)

Sorry for the block of text I'll try to find time to pretty it up.

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