Discussion:What happens when a player throws a body at an enemy?
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What happens when a player throws a body at an enemy?
123098zxcmnb 17:47, 6 February 2008 (MST)
In the last game session, a human fighter with a strength score of 17 and light armor grabbed a hobgoblin body, opened a door, and threw the body at a goblin in front of the door. I made the player role a touch attack and when he succeeded I decided that the enemy was knocked prone, but I am not completely satisfied with this. Does anyone have an idea about what I should have done?
First, you should have made a grapple check instead of a touch attack. This most definitely should have resulted in an Attack of Opportunity anyway, with the thing being conscious and more than likely able to flail his arms around... Probably would have been a better idea to knock the hobgobby out cold first.
As a DM who has a player who inspired my Improvised Weapon Corpse, I totally understand.
For throwing a still aware person, I don't allow it, but if you allow still flailing creatures to be thrown (for example they are a size smaller than you and you have a Str to make them a light load or some other requirement), then a grapple is a good place to start.
The person must be made helpless somehow... then they may be used as an improvised weapon. If I follow the corpse, it's just like throwing a greatsword.
Isn't there a feat somewhere that allows this? Or it may have been a maneuver, I'm not so sure now.
Imagination should be structured but not impeded. Just disallowing characters from throwing enemies into wall spikes or off sheer cliffs is immoral. There are two feats in Races of Stone that allow this. Fling Ally allows throwing a friendly of a size category smaller than you while Fling Enemy does the same for enemies except, you can throw anyone you can lift above your head (their weight cannot exceed your maximum load). When grappling a foe, you must make a successful grapple check to fling the enemy. It’s a standard action. An enemy one size category smaller than you and larger has a range increment of 5 feet while one that’s smaller has a range increment of 15 feet. The thrower provokes an AoO but not the thrown. For every 5 points by which your grapple check beats your foe's Escape Artist or grapple check, you can throw that foe ten more feet. I think characters should be able to throw foes without this feat but only foes who are unable to take actions such as those that are dazed, stunned , paralyzed, unconscious, etc. Prone doesn't necessarily mean he can't flail around like a windmill. Exhausted maybe added to the list but that’s a DM's call. The body becoming a weapon would entail a ranged touch attack and deals bludgeoning damage. The chart in Improvised Weapon Corpse has damage values.
123098zxcmnb 18:46, 19 February 2008 (MST)
Thanks, but I actually meant that they were throwing a corpse at the enemy. The player opened the door and threw the dead hobgoblin at an enemy goblin 10 feet away.
TK-Squared 11:32, 29 February 2008 (MST)
I'd say; throwing the corpse is, firstly, a touch attack with a -4 penalty (or higher depending on weight) for throwing it 10 feet beyond its ordinary range (which would be -, because throwing someone is pretty damn hard) and deals damage 1d6 bludgeoning damage (maybe less). Because being hit by a corpse is not always fun. Also, allow them a reflex save to avoid being prone (DC 10 + damage?) and allow people AoO's against the thrower because it's an awkward action. Make it a Standard Action too, because you can't quick draw corpses. I hope.
22.214.171.124 01:15, 19 March 2008
There's actually a series of maneuvers in the Tome of Battle...lemme look up some names. They're all in the Setting Sun discipline: Mighty Throw/Devastating Throw/Comet Throw/Soaring Throw/Ballista Throw/Tornado Throw, Heh, that would be amusing, making a monk or fighter who focused on just juggling enemies around the field :P
If I was running the game I'd resolve like this. First a grapple would need to be made if the hobgoblin was still conscience. Then a ranged attack for the throw. If the hobgoblin is conscience at this point he would get a grapple check to try to cling on. If the ranged attack hits then resolve as a bull rush ignoring the fall prone on a failure part of the bull rush rule as the player isn't actually entering the enemy's space. Maybe throw in a reflex save for the defender to stay upright.
I think this approach would cover what the player was trying to accomplish. From the description of the situation you gave it seemed like he was trying to clear a path through the door way and a "ranged" bull rush would do just that.