Discussion:Can the "Gate" spell be used to get a cheaper wish?
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Can the "Gate" spell be used to get a cheaper wish?
If you use the Gate spell to call a Solar, can you use it to get a cheaper Wish? On the same note, can the Permanency Spell-like Ability be used to get cheaper XP costs? There are lots of applications here if it does work this way, I was just looking at reducing XP Costs. Resurrection would be an example of avoiding material components.
Also a second part to this discussion would be: can Gate call an Epic monster?
A third part to discuss: if the Solar thing works the way I think it does (by RAW of course), what creature would be optimal to gate in for services.
188.8.131.52 09:34, 20 July 2007 (MDT)
theorically it could work, the gate spell states that any action that can be preformed in 1/round per CLVL is immediate and doesn't require a cost for the summoned creature's service. But remember that something like that will annoy your DM, and a wish spell is risky at best. The solar might word yor wish in a way that screws you over, just because its good doesn't mean its going to like submiting to some mortal spellcaster who is to lazy to pay the XP cost, and it is by far smart enough to get its price. As for the material componet, it might not have it and require you to provide it any way.
As for epic monsters, thats up to your DM, abominations definately not. they are half god and fairly unique besides they are going to be hard to control. Most epic monsters are rare, so a DM might rule them as a unique being who can be summoned but not controlled. As a DM myself I would rule that it would take an epic spell to summon an epic monster.
Obviously there is Rule 0 with the DM (this is just a theoretical thing -- I DM for my group). I'm just wondering if it works with the rules. I also noticed that a Titan has Gate as a spell-like ability. Rules as they are, I'm wondering if it is possible to make an infinite gate chain with that somehow... Thanks for your thoughts though :). --Aarnott 09:55, 20 July 2007 (MDT)
The words "more involved service" is the loophole that the DM needs. The caster must describe the wish to the solar, and the solar must understand the wish well enough to make the wish. The solar must also explain the implications in gating in solars to make wishes. Summoning solars has consequences. As good creatures, they must also ensure that the wish be used well. All of that dialog constitutes "more involved".
Well, if it was a chaotic outsider and it was feeling mischievous, it might interpret your request literally. If it was lawful, it might simply refuse to do the wish.
You normally use candles for this. They cost only 8,400 gp.
If my memory is correct:
- Say Pazuzu's name 3 times. This requires a DC 26 Know(planes) check. He'll give you a wish. And change your alignment.
- Use said wish to obtain Candle of Invocation.
- Use said candle to get an efreeti.
- The three wishes should be: another candle, and transport you to a non-hostile plane. One wish left over?
- Use candle to get sarrukh.
Let's be blunt. Gate is broken. Even if you don't use gate-wish trick (and it's an oldie) there are other abuses.
Gate has plenty of misuses, but also plenty of uses. Its only as broken as your DM lets it be, imho.
I agree with Othim. There are many ways around the apparent "broken" Gate spell. As you cannot force Gods or Demigods into service, and Solars are the personal servants of the Gods, the God that is in charge of the Solar could just refuse negate your power through any number of ways. As for gating in epic creatures, that is a bit tricky, as gate says that you can control a single creature of up to 2 times your caster level. So, at 20th level, you could gate in a 40HD creature. However, some creatures, (especially other planar ones) have knowledge of the various arcane and divine magics and could find ways to protect themselves from these spells. Also, forcing a 40HD creature into servitude could have it's own repurcussions after the spell ends. I know that the creature is sent back at the end of the Gate spell, but by then, it knows who you are, and creatures don't get to be 40 HD without having resources/powers of their own. So, frivolous spellcasters beware.
--Keeper of the Stars