https://www.dandwiki.com/w/api.php?action=feedcontributions&user=ThunderGod+Cid&feedformat=atomD&D Wiki - User contributions [en]2024-03-29T05:02:29ZUser contributionsMediaWiki 1.35.8https://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Blackstone_Knight_(3.5e_Class)&diff=525236Blackstone Knight (3.5e Class)2011-07-06T18:42:09Z<p>ThunderGod Cid: delete on author's request</p>
<hr />
<div>{{delete|July 7, 2011|I hate this class now; please get rid of it so it doesn't haunt my dreams.}}<br />
<br />
{{DnD Base Class Infobox<br />
|img=Black knight sun.jpg<br />
|imgloc=<br />
|imgsize=320px<br />
|imgcaption=<br />
|rating_power=3<br />
|raters_power=1<br />
|rating_wording=4<br />
|raters_wording=1<br />
|rating_formatting=4<br />
|raters_formatting=1<br />
|rating_flavor=3<br />
|raters_flavor=1<br />
|status=Done except for NPC<br />
|editing= Post suggestions on discussion page<br />
|type=Combat-Focused<br />
|desc=A more defensive variant of the [[Hellfire Knight (DnD Class)|Hellfire Knight]], the blackstone knight uses fiendish energy to morph his own body into a powerful combination of rock, metal, and flesh.<br />
}}<br />
<br />
==Blackstone Knight==<br />
<br />
The blackstone knight is very similar to the [[Hellfire Knight (DnD Class)|hellfire knight]]; both give up hit points to channel fiendish energy through their bodies, entering a state in which they gain great power for short periods. Where the hellfire knight manifests his powers as hellfire, however, the blackstone knight undergoes a transformation that turns his body into an amalgam of flesh, rock and metal.<br />
<br />
Extremely adept in the use of oversized weapons, a blackstone knight wades into the thick of battle, heavily armed and armored, and unleashes his catastrophic wrath upon his opponents. <br />
<br />
===Making a Blackstone Knight===<br />
<br />
Due to their lack of access to shields and the nature of their abilities, heavy armor is almost essential for a blackstone knight's survival. <br />
<br />
'''Abilities:''' [[Strength]] is the blackstone knight's forte, as well as [[Constitution]], for both of these increase his survivability. [[Charisma]] is his most important ability, however, for it affects the DC's of his abilities. <br />
<br />
'''Races:''' Like that of the hellfire knight, the path of the blackstone knight is often sought by those who seek raw power regardless of the consequences. The power of fiends is extremely dangerous, but many humans are willing to bet on the risk in search of the reward. Other races, particularly those that favor some form of fiendish cult, also create blackstone knights.<br />
<br />
'''Alignment:''' Any non-good. A good aligned character makes an unsuitable conduit for the evil power of the Lower Planes. <br />
<br />
'''Starting Gold:''' As Fighter. <br />
<br />
'''Starting Age: Moderate''' <br />
<br />
{| class="{{d20}}"<br />
|+<br />
<div>{{#anc:Table: The Blackstone Knight}}</div><br />
Hit Die: d10<br />
|-<br />
! rowspan="2" | Level<br />
! rowspan="2" | [[BAB|Base<br/>Attack Bonus]]<br />
! colspan="3" | [[SRD:Saving Throw|Saving Throw]]s<br />
! rowspan="2" | Special<br />
! rowspan="2" | Demonic Rush<br>Strength Bonus<br />
|-<br />
! [[SRD:Saving Throw#Fortitude|Fort]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Reflex|Ref]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Will|Will]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|1st|| class="left" | +1 || +2 || +0 || +0<br />
| class="left" | [[#Aura of Evil|Aura of Evil]], [[#Power of the Body|Power of the Body]], [[#Bigger Is Better|Bigger Is Better]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|2nd|| class="left" | +2 || +3 || +0 || +0<br />
| class="left" | [[#Demonic Rush|Demonic Rush]]<br />
| +2<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|3rd|| class="left" | +3 || +3 || +1 || +1<br />
| class="left" | [[#Mighty Swing|Mighty Swing]], [[#Damage Reduction|Damage Reduction 1/-]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|4th||class="left" | +4 || +4 || +1 || +1<br />
| class="left" | [[#Demonic Growth|Demonic Growth]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|5th||class="left" | +5 || +4 || +1 || +1<br />
| class="left" | <br />
| +4<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|6th||class="left" | +6/+1 || +5 || +2 || +2<br />
| class="left" | [[#Size Matters|Size Matters]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|7th||class="left" | +7/+2 || +5 || +2 || +2<br />
| class="left" | [[#Brimstone Body|Brimstone Body]], [[#Damage Reduction|Damage Reduction 2/-]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|8th||class="left" | +8/+3 || +6 || +2 || +2<br />
| class="left" | [[#Dire Swing|Dire Swing]]<br />
| +6<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|9th||class="left" | +9/+4 || +6 || +3 || +3<br />
| class="left" | [[#Plutonic Pillar|Plutonic Pillar]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|10th||class="left" | +10/+5 || +7 || +3 || +3<br />
| class="left" | [[#Second Skin|Second Skin]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|11th||class="left" | +11/+6/+1 || +7 || +3 || +3<br />
| class="left" | [[#Damage Reduction|Damage Reduction 3/-]]<br />
| +8<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|12th||class="left" | +12/+7/+2 || +8 || +4 || +4<br />
| class="left" | [[#The Devil's Mirror|The Devil’s Mirror]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|13th||class="left" | +13/+8/+3 || +8 || +4 || +4<br />
| class="left" | [[#Plutonic Prison|Plutonic Prison]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|14th||class="left" | +14/+9/+4 || +9 || +4 || +4<br />
| class="left" | <br />
| +10<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|15th||class="left" | +15/+10/+5 || +9 || +5 || +5<br />
| class="left" | [[#Damage Reduction|Damage Reduction 4/-]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|16th||class="left" | +16/+11/+6/+1 || +10 || +5 || +5<br />
| class="left" | [[#Stygian Steel|Stygian Steel]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|17th||class="left" | +17/+12/+7/+2 || +10 || +5 || +5<br />
| class="left" | <br />
| +12<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|18th||class="left" | +18/+13/+8/+3 || +11 || +6 || +6<br />
| class="left" | [[#Nilfheim|Nilfheim]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|19th||class="left" | +19/+14/+9/+4 || +11 || +6 || +6<br />
| class="left" | [[#Damage Reduction|Damage Reduction 5/-]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|20th||class="left" | +20/+15/+10/+5 || +12 || +6 || +6<br />
| class="left" | [[#Harbinger|Harbinger]]<br />
| +14<br />
|-<br />
| colspan="42" class="skill" |<br />
'''Class Skills 2 + [[SRD:Intelligence|Int]] modifier per level, &times;4 at 1st level)'''<br/><br />
[[SRD: Bluff Skill|Bluff]] ([[SRD:Charisma|Cha]]), [[SRD:Climb Skill|Climb]] ([[SRD:Strength|Str]]), [[SRD:Craft Skill|Craft]] ([[SRD:Intelligence|Int]]), [[SRD:Handle Animal Skill|Handle Animal]] ([[SRD:Charisma|Cha]]), [[SRD:Intimidate Skill|Intimidate]] ([[SRD:Charisma|Cha]]), [[SRD:Jump Skill|Jump]] ([[SRD:Strength|Str]]), [[SRD:Knowledge Skill|Knowledge (The Planes)]] ([[SRD:Intelligence|Int]]), [[SRD:Ride Skill|Ride]] ([[SRD:Dexterity|Dex]]), [[SRD:Survival Skill|Survival]] ([[SRD:Wisdom|Wis]]), [[SRD:Swim Skill|Swim]] ([[SRD:Strength|Str]]).<br />
|}<br />
<br />
====Class Features====<br />
All of the following are class features of the blackstone knight.<br />
<br />
'''Weapon and Armor Proficiency:''' A blackstone knight is automatically proficient with all simple and martial weapons. He is also proficient with all forms of armor, but not shields.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Aura of Evil}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' The power of a blackstone knight’s aura of evil (see detect evil) is equal to his blackstone knight level. To such a spell, the blackstone knight always registers as evil regardless of his true alignment.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Power of the Body}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' A blackstone knight is extremely hardy, able to withstand a great deal of punishment before going down. He gains maximum hit points for every level of blackstone knight that he takes. This does not apply to any levels from any other classes or racial Hit Die.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Bigger is Better}}:''' A blackstone knight specializes in the use of the largest weapon possible. He gains Monkey Grip ([[Complete Warrior]]) as a bonus feat at 1st level, but its effects only allow him to use a larger than normal weapon in two hands. For example, a blackstone knight can wield a Huge greatsword in two hands, but cannot use a Large greatsword in one hand if his size does not normally allow him to do so.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Demonic Rush}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' Starting at second level, the blackstone knight can channel the energy of the Lower Planes through his body, sacrificing his health for temporary power. While in a demonic rush, the blackstone knight gains a bonus to Strength (see the table) and a +4 bonus on all saving throws, but takes 1d4 damage per round he stays in the rush as the energy causes his body to break down at an absurdly rapid pace. This damage cannot be countered by any form of damage resistance. A blackstone knight can use a demonic rush for a number of rounds per day equal to 10 + his blackstone knight level, and these rounds need not be consecutive. Starting or ending a demonic rush is a move-equivalent action. <br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Mighty Swing}}:''' A blackstone knight gains the [[Power Attack]] as a bonus feat at 3rd level, even if he does not meet the prerequisites. Not only can the blackstone knight reduce his base attack bonus, but he can also sacrifice his Armor Class to add even more damage to his attacks. The ratio for sacrificing Armor Class is the same as using his base attack bonus. <br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Damage Reduction}}:''' Whatever doesn’t kill you only makes you stronger. The blackstone knight gains [[damage reduction]] 1/- at third level, and this value increases by 1 every four levels up to 5/-. <br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Demonic Growth}}:''' At fourth level, a blackstone knight in a demonic rush can sacrifice 1d4 additional hit points to replicate the effects of an ''[[enlarge person]]'' spell for the duration of the current demonic rush. All of the normal procedures for the spell are followed, but this ability cannot be countered by ''[[reduce person]]'' or made permanent. <br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Size Matters}}:''' At sixth level, when wielding a Large size or larger weapon, a blackstone knight applies 1 ½ times his Strength bonus to damage rolls for one-handed melee attacks. If he wields the weapon in two hands, he applies double his Strength bonus to damage.<br />
<br />
'''''{{#anc:Brimstone Body}}'' ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Spell-Like|Sp]]):''' At the cost of 1d6 hit points, a 7th level blackstone knight can cover his body in a tough, red/black abyssal rock, granting him the effects of a stoneskin spell either until it absorbs the maximum amount of damage or for the duration of his current demonic rush.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Dire Swing}}:''' A blackstone knight is an expert at wielding a weapon with power by eighth level. He now gains a +3 bonus to damage for every 2 points of base attack bonus or Armor Class he gives up.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Plutonic Pillar}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Supernatural|Su]]):''' The blackstone knight gains a potent offensive weapon at 9th level, when he gains the ability to call a powerful adamantine spike from below ground during a demonic rush at the cost of 1d8 hit points. This column can attack any foe in contact with the ground within a radius of 10 feet per blackstone knight level, dealing 1d4 points of bludgeoning damage per level. The use of this ability is a standard action.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Second Skin}}:''' At 10th level, the blackstone knight has become so accustomed to wearing heavy armor that even his suit’s weight is inconsequential to him. He no longer takes a penalty to his movement speed when wearing armor, and can run using his normal multiplier. Other armor penalties (such as armor check penalties) still apply.<br />
<br />
'''''{{#anc:The Devil's Mirror}}'' ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Spell-Like|Sp]]):''' At 12th level, the blackstone knight can use ''[[spell turning]]'' during a demonic rush when he gives up 1d10 hit points. The effect functions normally, with the blackstone knight rolling to determine how many spell levels are turned.<br />
<br />
'''''{{#anc:Plutonic Prison}}'' ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Spell-Like|Sp]]):''' At 13th level, the blackstone knight may encase an opponent in stone for 3d4 of his own hit points, replicating the ''[[flesh to stone]]'' spell. The knight has no capability of reversing this effect.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Stygian Steel}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Supernatural|Su]]):''' At 16th level, the blackstone knight can cover his body in solid metal (like the ''[[iron body]]'' spell) for self-defense. When he uses this ability, he takes 2d4 damage per round he maintains the transformation. This effect immediately ends when he stops his current demonic rush, but may be resumed freely during another rush.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Nilfheim}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Supernatural|Su]]):''' The blackstone knight can make the rock and metal around his body burst forth in an explosion of destructive force. At 18th level, a knight in a demonic rush may give up 4d4 hit points to deal 1d6 points of damage per level (maximum 20d6) to everything in a 50-foot radius around him. If the blackstone knight uses Nilfheim, his current demonic rush immediately ends, and he cannot use his demonic rush again for 24 hours. He is also treated as [[exhausted]] until he rests for 8 full hours.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Harbinger}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' At 20th level, the blackstone knight’s power to channel fiendish energy reaches its pinnacle. He may now use either of the plutonic abilities outside of his demonic rush. For the purposes of wielding weapons and wearing armour the Blackstone Knight can be treated as one size category than he actually is. He gains the [[outsider]] type (with the native subtype).<br />
<br />
====Ex-Blackstone Knights====<br />
<br />
If a blackstone knight becomes of good alignment, he cannot channel the fiendish energies that grant him strength. He loses the ability to use his demonic rush and all associated abilities. These abilities are restored to him as soon as he reverts to a non-good alignment.<br />
<br />
====Epic Blackstone Knight====<br />
<br />
{| class="{{d20}}"<br />
|+ class="epic" |<br />
The Epic Blackstone Knight<br><br />
Hit Die: d10<br />
! Level !! Special !! Demonic Rush<br>Strength Bonus<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 21st || class="left" | [[#Bonus Feats|Bonus Feat]] || class="left" |<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 22nd || class="left" | || class="left" |<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 23rd || class="left" | || class="left" |+16 <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 24th || class="left" | [[#Bonus Feats|Bonus Feat]] || class="left" |<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 25th || class="left" | || class="left" |<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 26th || class="left" | || class="left" |+18<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 27th || class="left" | [[#Bonus Feats|Bonus Feat]] || class="left" |<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 28th || class="left" | || class="left" |<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 29th || class="left" | || class="left" |+20<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 30th || class="left" | [[#Bonus Feats|Bonus Feat]] || class="left" |<br />
|-<br />
| colspan="42" class="skill" |<br />
2 + [[SRD:Intelligence|Int]] modifier skill points per level.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
'''Demonic Rush:''' An epic level blackstone knight continues to gain daily rounds for his demonic rush, allowing him to use it for longer periods of time. He also gains an additional +2 bonus to [[Strength]] during a demonic rush every three levels.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc: Bonus Feats }}:''' The epic blackstone knight gains a bonus feat (selected from the list of epic hellfire knight bonus feats) at 21st level and every three levels after.<br />
<br />
''Epic Blackstone Knight Bonus Feat List:'' [[SRD:Armor Skin|Armor Skin]], [[SRD:Damage Reduction (Feat)|Damage Reduction]], [[SRD:Epic Speed|Epic Speed]], [[SRD:Epic Toughness|Epic Toughness]], [[SRD:Fast Healing|Fast Healing]], [[SRD:Great Charisma|Great Charisma]], [[SRD:Great Strength|Great Strength]], [[SRD:Superior Initiative|Superior Initiative]]<br />
<br />
====Human Blackstone Knight Starting Package====<br />
<br />
'''Weapons:''' [[Greataxe]].<br />
<br />
'''Skill Selection:''' Pick a number of skills equal to 4 + [[Int]] modifier.<br />
<br />
{| class="{{d20}}"<br />
|-<br />
! class="left" | Skill || Ranks || Ability || Armor<br/>Check<br/>Penalty<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| class="left" | Bluff || 4 || Cha || &mdash;<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| class="left" | Intimidate || 4 || Cha || &mdash;<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| class="left" | Jump || 4 || Str || &mdash;<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| class="left" | Survival || 2 || Wis || &mdash;<br />
|}<br />
<br />
'''Feat:''' [[Improved Initiative]]<br />
<br />
'''Bonus Feats:''' [[Weapon Focus]] ([[greataxe]])<br />
<br />
'''Gear:''' Full Plate, Standard Adventurer's gear.<br />
<br />
'''Gold:''' none<br />
<br />
===Campaign Information===<br />
<br />
====Playing a Blackstone Knight====<br />
<br />
'''Religion:''' As the carriers of unearthly demonic powers, blackstone knights are often (and sometimes unwillingly) tied with cults of such entities. It is rare that they venerate or even associate themselves with good dieties, but it is not unheard of.<br />
<br />
'''Other Classes:''' Blackstone knights associate with others much like hellfire knights; due to the self-damaging nature of their abilities, they highly value clerics or any similar class with healing abilities who can keep them alive and away from their damnation for as long as possible. But the defensive and enigmatic nature of a blackstone knight is not reflected in his hellfire knight kindred, and as a result they get along with others even more poorly. A rare partnership is a blackstone knight traveling with a hellfire knight; this is not out of a particular lack of desire, but rather because of the extreme rarity of both classes. When these pairings are formed, however, the result is usually a very formidable combat tandem. On the other hand, clashes between two knights of different alignment is not unheard of, and when the combatants are powerful their duels can last for hours, razing the landscape for miles around.<br />
<br />
'''Combat:''' With his powerful defensive capabilities and aptitude for large melee weapons, the blackstone knight makes a powerful front-line combatant even without hyis demonic rush. When he channels the power at his disposal, he becomes a powerful bastion of defense that can withstand all comers.<br />
<br />
'''Advancement:''' Just as the hellfire knights worship Mephistopheles (or some other hellfire-related entity), blackstone knights worship a figure that greatly reflects their own abilities: the Iron Lord Dispater. Blackstone knights of an evil alignment often become disciples of said devil lord, while others still usually revere gods of war, reveling in bloodshed.<br />
<br />
====Blackstone Knights in the World====<br />
<br />
{{quote|''Hell is the highest reward that Asmodeus can offer you for being a servant of his.''|orig=Tartaros, human blackstone knight}}<br />
<br />
Due to their high level of combat effectiveness without the use of their fiendish abilties, most blackstone knights can pass as fighters to the unwitting observer. Anyone with the ability to ''[[detect evil]]'' or [[detect magic|magic]], however, will find that there is much more to them than meets the eye.<br />
<br />
'''Daily Life:''' The nomadic life of a sellsword is well suited to a blackstone knight, who prefers to never stay in one place for too long. They never accept permanent deals and leave whenever they feel they have attracted too much attention to maintain the concealment of their powers.<br />
<br />
'''Notables:''' Tartaros is an old and powerful blackstone knight (BsK 22) as well as the comrade of the hellfire knight Azazel. Despite his graying hair, his body is still that of a man is his prime, and the speed in which he moves when dressed in full plate armor astounds many of his opponents.<br />
<br />
'''Organizations:''' There is never a formal organization of the blackstone knights, as a large congregation would attract the attention of fanatical demon-killers who would jump at the opportunity to kill an alleged "half-fiend".<br />
<br />
'''NPC Reactions:''' Fear and awe follow the reticent and armored blackstone knights wherever they roam. Imposing even at first glance, a blackstone knight usually fails in all attempts to blend in.<br />
<br />
====Blackstone Knight Lore====<br />
<br />
Characters with ranks in [[Knowledge]] (the planes) can research blackstone knights to learn more about them. When a character makes a skill check, read or paraphrase the following, including information from lower DCs.<br />
<br />
{| class="{{d20}}"<br />
|+ [[Knowledge]] (the planes)<br />
! DC || class="left" | Result<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 5 || class="left" | Blackstone knights are offshoots of hellfire knights with the same ability to channel fiendish energies.<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 10 || class="left" | Many blackstone knights revere gods of war, and it is reflected in their militant, mercenary attitudes.<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 15 || class="left" | Blackstone knights are very defensive in nature; they wear heavy armor in battle to work in concert with their formidable transformation capabilities.<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 20 || class="left" | Among these transformations are the ability to change size and to cover the body in living stone or metal.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
====Blackstone Knights in the Game====<br />
<br />
Blackstone knights appear to be fighters to the untrained eye; to further this deception may try to behave in the same manner as their fighter counterparts. Most blackstone knights are swords-for-hire, and can be found wherever some grisly work needs to be done.<br />
<br />
'''Adaptation:''' Almost every campaign setting has some form of the Lower Planes. Blackstone knights channel the powers of the infernal beings who reside there into their own bodies.<br />
<br />
'''Sample Encounter:''' A 9th level chaotic neutral blackstone knight travels with a band of bloodthirsty mercenaries. He cares nothing for his comrades' lives and will not use his full power until they are all dead or he is at serious risk of being slain. <br />
<br />
''EL whatever:'' <-Encounter scenario and character info on sample NPC including stat block. The CR of the NPC is typically the same as the EL for the encounter.->.<br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
{{DnD Base Classes Breadcrumb}}<br />
[[Category:DnD]]<br />
[[Category:3.5e]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Class]]<br />
[[Category:Base Class]]<br />
[[Category:Combat-Focused]]</div>ThunderGod Cidhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Blackstone_Knight_(3.5e_Class)&diff=525235Talk:Blackstone Knight (3.5e Class)2011-07-06T18:40:46Z<p>ThunderGod Cid: /* Rating */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Namespaces==<br />
<br />
Black Knight already existed and I discovered this stub hanging off in space. I moved it to "Blackened" so it existed. It's a stub, very messy. Who is the creator of this page? -- [[User:Eiji|Eiji]] 20:58, 2 October 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== Available for Adoption? ==<br />
<br />
Since no one has claimed this page (as far as I can tell), I was wondering if I could adopt it. At least to fix it up a bit, if not change the direction of the class. -[[User:ThunderGod Cid|ThunderGod Cid]] 18:59, 27 March 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:Yes, please adopt this article! It needs a lot of love, but there is potential. Good Luck T.G. Cid! --[[User:Ganteka|Ganteka]] 14:38, 28 March 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:: Unfortunately, I have no idea how I would go about adopting a page (I believe there's an official process). If anyone could give me directions on how to do so, it would be greatly appreciated. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|ThunderGod Cid]] 18:24, 30 March 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::: Just replace the author template with this:<br />
<br />
:::<nowiki>{{adopted Article</nowiki><br/><br />
:::<nowiki>|adopter_name=<!--User Name--></nowiki><br/><br />
:::<nowiki>|date_adopted=<!--Day Month Year--></nowiki><br/><br />
:::<nowiki>|status=<!--level of completion--></nowiki><br/><br />
:::<nowiki>}}</nowiki><br />
<br />
:::Bam, adopted article. --[[User:Ganteka|Ganteka]] 18:28, 30 March 2009 (MDT)<br />
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::::Cool, thanks a lot. I've got a plan, but I'm going to respect the work of the original author and keep most of his ideas. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|ThunderGod Cid]] 20:06, 30 March 2009 (MDT)<br />
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:::::My god... it's gone from sucky to sexy! I like this! -- [[User:Eiji|Eiji]] 12:07, 23 May 2009 (MDT)<br />
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== Suggestions Plus Help? ==<br />
<br />
I'm at a little bit of a dilemma with this class. I want to keep the original author's ideas (at least the ones that are plausibly balanced for gameplay), but I also wanted to make this class somewhat like a defensive variant of my Hellfire Knight, with the same premise of sacrificing hit points for power. I would like to know what other people think should stay and go (aside from the free ability boosts, which are going to be deleted). I want to keep the concept of increasing size, but only for a short period of time similar to the effects of the ''[[enlarge person]]'' spell.<br />
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Additionally, I was hoping to change the name to "Blackstone Knight" (Blackened Knight doesn't seem the most pleasing name to the ear, so I thought Blackstone might be an improvement that goes along with my new class better). I see that I can change it on this page, but that doesn't seem to affect how it looks on the list of classes. <br />
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Help with either of these issues would be appreciated. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|ThunderGod Cid]] 17:05, 8 May 2009 (MDT)<br />
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:As far as the page name goes, there is the Move tab up at the top of the article, just click it and change the page's name to move it to a new page. Also, you can get rid of the old author template box now that you have the adopted article box on there. --[[User:Ganteka|Ganteka]] 17:18, 8 May 2009 (MDT)<br />
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== Rating == <br />
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'''Power - 3/5''' I give this class a 3 out of 5. To be honest, the fact that almost -all- it's abilities sacrifice HP give this class a poor survival rating. Perhaps if it had a more suitable way to -restore- some of it's lost health on it's own, I would rate it higher, but I would fear for abusing such raw power in this class. --[[User:Avlindrel FallenTree|Avlindrel FallenTree]] 23:08, 16 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
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:Power of the Body (getting maximum hp for every level) was supposed to make giving up hit points for power somewhat viable. It basically ensures that even though you have yo give up hp, you have lots of it to lose. If that's not enough, perhaps something similar to the paladin's Lay on Hands? If you think that is appropriate, I would likely add it to the hellfire knight as well. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 19:23, 17 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
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'''Wording - 4/5''' I give this class a 4 out of 5. I love the wording, and there isn't much to be confused by with the way you type things out. Other than the difficulty with the incorrect class-name in the Starting Package, this -would- earn a 5! --[[User:Avlindrel FallenTree|Avlindrel FallenTree]] 23:08, 16 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
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: Didn't even notice that, so thanks for the catch. Fixed.<br />
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'''[[Help:Standards and Formatting (DnD Guideline)|Formatting]] - 4/5''' I give this class a 4 out of 5. The formatting is simplistic, and easy to read without error. You haven't put anything too overt in there, and of course you haven't used the more difficult parts of formatting, but good job! --[[User:Avlindrel FallenTree|Avlindrel FallenTree]] 23:08, 16 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
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'''Flavor - 3/5''' I give this class a 3 out of 5. Being honest, the flavor for the class is a little lacking. Perhaps you could elaborate on all the points where you just list the Hellfire Knight as an example? That, in my eyes, would greatly improve the class-page. --[[User:Avlindrel FallenTree|Avlindrel FallenTree]] 23:08, 16 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
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== Rating == <br />
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'''Power - <<<5>>>/5''' I give this class a <<<5>>> out of 5 because <<<It doesnt need to be improved>>> --{{unsigned|189.98.170.232}}--{{unsigned|189.98.170.232}}<br />
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'''Wording - <<<5>>>/5''' I give this class a <<<5>>> out of 5 because <<<Its fine.>>> --{{unsigned|189.98.170.232}}<br />
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'''[[Help:Standards and Formatting (DnD Guideline)|Formatting]] - <<<Insert Your Rating Here>>>/5''' I give this class a <<<Insert Your Rating Here>>> out of 5 because <<<insert why you gave the rating and how to improve it>>> --{{unsigned|189.98.170.232}}<br />
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'''Flavor - <<<Insert Your Rating Here>>>/5''' I give this class a <<<Insert Your Rating Here>>> out of 5 because <<<insert why you gave the rating and how to improve it>>> --{{unsigned|189.98.170.232}}<br />
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:The above rating is vague and was added by an IP after the IP made several edits to the article. This particular IP has no other history here on the wiki. That being said, I would say that users should keep the possible conflict of interest and single purpose in mind when taking this rating into consideration. &nbsp;<small><span style="border: 1px solid black; -moz-border-radius:10px">[[User:Hooper|'''<span style="background-color:White; color:Black; -moz-border-radius-topleft:10px; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:10px"> Hooper </span>''']][[User talk:Hooper|<span style="background-color:Black; color:white; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:10px; -moz-border-radius-topleft:10px">&nbsp;&nbsp;talk&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|<span style="background-color:black; color:white">&nbsp;&nbsp;contribs&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|<span style="background-color:black; color:white; -moz-border-radius-bottomright:10px; -moz-border-radius-topright:10px">&nbsp;&nbsp;email&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]]</span></small> 23:37, 20 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::The IP's edits have been undone, since they were unauthorized and unwarranted. As such, I feel that this rating should be disregarded entirely on the basis of its context as well as the lack of justification. Since it hasn't been added to the page itself, I don't think that will be a problem. But the record has been cleared. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 16:25, 21 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Rating == <br />
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'''Power - 1/5''' I give this class a 1 out of 5 because Because it becomes disgustingly powerful around level 12 when it gains spell turning as a supernatural ability A LEVEL BEFORE ANY CASTER COULD ACTUALLY CAST IT. Once it has an ability based stat bonus EQUIVALENT TO AN EPIC LEVEL ITEM <br />
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I recommend changing Devil's Mirror to Devil's Shield with the same penalty, and make it spell resistance with a caster level equal to BK level.<br />
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move demonic rush to lvl 5, and changing the bonus upgrade to every 5th level thereafter, leaving them with +8 at lvl20 when he is actually considered epic<br />
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remove demonic growth, plutonic pillar, and the part in harbinger about plutonic abilities. There's just too many class abilities, plutonic pillar makes very little sense and is rather excessive, and demonic growth is very broken, all other abilities considered. between monkey grip, demonic growth, and harbinger, a BK is wielding a gargantuan weapon, at medium size; larger with related enchants.<br />
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HP costs are a good limiting factor, but not when you have more HP than a corpse gatherer. A d12 hit die is plenty. You don't need 10/level the only thing that gets that is a barbarian prestige class that's essentially a damage sponge. That much HP is easy to break, by simply NOT using the HP costing abilities.<br />
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:I think I have to disagree with this premise. First of all, spell turning is not actually that great of a spell despite what the name would implicate. The +8 Strength is also not a terribly big deal given that there are significant dead levels, and such bonuses can be easily acquired via other means (growing in size, for example). Changing it to spell resistance equal to class level would instantly render it almost useless, since any appropriately-challenged caster could overcome it with relative ease.<br />
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:I also think the class has too many dead levels as it is. There's no chance I could be swayed to give more. Dead levels are always bad for any game regardless of balance level; removing stuff is almost inconceivable. I also think you're overstating the power of hit points, given that any properly optimized character can deal hundreds of hit points worth of damage or, if they are a wizard, circumvent hit points altogether. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 19:04, 20 March 2011 (MDT)<br />
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'''Wording - 3/5''' I give this class a 3 out of 5 because everything is coherant, but most of the wording doesn't follow standard wording practices, and because the writer just seemed kind of lazy in certain points, such as putting "same as figher" for starting gold, instead of looking up 6d4 x 10<br />
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:I admit that it was kind of lazy to write "same as fighter" but that's pretty standard practice. In addition, although this was written some time ago, I would like to know which sections violate "standard wording practices". It might not be great writing, but it doesn't seem that bad in my opinion. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 19:03, 20 March 2011 (MDT)<br />
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'''[[Help:Standards and Formatting (DnD Guideline)|Formatting]] - 4/5''' I give this class a 4 out of 5 because the formatting's a little crusty, but otherwise acceptable. Improving the wording would help a great deal. It would be better if the class didn't haphazardly switch between infernal & abyssal terms. If it's Abyssal, use 'demon/demonic', 'abyssal' 'abyss' ect. if the class is Infernal, use 'devil/devilish' 'infernal' 'inferno' 'hell' ect. If it's neither, simply evil, use 'feindish' 'unholy' 'forsaken' ect.<br />
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:It's more fluff than anything that affects the game. It essentially allows you to pick without straightjacketing into one, and to be frank just saying evil time and again gets boring quickly. I also like alliteration, so those other words lend themselves well. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 19:03, 20 March 2011 (MDT)<br />
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'''Flavor - 4/5''' I give this class a 4 out of 5 because the idea is solid, a fiendish tank is a needed idea. I like it, it's just... awkwardly written, and somewhat overpowered (I rolled the numbers, it gets bad. Fast) [WTF does plutonium have to do with demons?]<br />
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:For the record, Plutonic refers to volcanic rock created by crystallized magma, which fits the theme of the class much better than plutonium would. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 19:03, 20 March 2011 (MDT)<br />
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== Rating == <br />
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'''Power - 2.5/5''' I give this class a 2.5 out of 5 because the class is kind of meh. It's basically a better version of warrior. The two top tier abilities, Nilfeheim and Harbinger, are absolutely terrible. Nilfeheim is trash, and Harbinger is lackluster. This is especially problematic considering it's the class's level 20 ability =/ <br />
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I'd reccommend the following: Nilfeheim - instead of what it does currently, have it do 1d6 damage per level, then the knight is exhausted for 3 rounds. It doesn't end the surge or anything.<br />
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I can't really think of anything you can do to improve Harbinger. Sorry. --[[User:AnarchicAccordant|AnarchicAccordant]] 23:06, 2 July 2011 (MDT) <br />
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'''Wording - 5/5''' I give this class a 5 out of 5 because the wording is fine. Everything is clearly explained and easy to understand. --[[User:AnarchicAccordant|AnarchicAccordant]] 23:06, 2 July 2011 (MDT)<br />
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'''[[Help:Standards and Formatting (DnD Guideline)|Formatting]] - 5/5''' I give this class a 5 out of 5 because of the same reason as the wording. --[[User:AnarchicAccordant|AnarchicAccordant]] 23:06, 2 July 2011 (MDT)<br />
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'''Flavor - 3/5''' I give this class a 3 out of 5 because it's okay, but they're basically barbarians with a different flavor. --[[User:AnarchicAccordant|AnarchicAccordant]] 23:06, 2 July 2011 (MDT)<br />
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:I'm not gonna lie, I think this class sucks too. I made it a really long time ago, and now I just generally despise it. So I'm gonna slap the delete template on it and see if someone actually honors it. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 12:40, 6 July 2011 (MDT)</div>ThunderGod Cidhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Akrotesy_(3.5e_Race)&diff=521528Talk:Akrotesy (3.5e Race)2011-06-06T00:41:33Z<p>ThunderGod Cid: </p>
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<div>==+20 Wisdom...==<br />
<br />
Word? - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 18:39, 5 June 2011 (MDT)</div>ThunderGod Cidhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Akrotesy_(3.5e_Race)&diff=521527Talk:Akrotesy (3.5e Race)2011-06-06T00:39:38Z<p>ThunderGod Cid: Created page with "===+20 Wisdom...== Word? - ~~~~"</p>
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<div>===+20 Wisdom...==<br />
<br />
Word? - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 18:39, 5 June 2011 (MDT)</div>ThunderGod Cidhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Darkbringer_(3.5e_Class)&diff=520334Talk:Darkbringer (3.5e Class)2011-05-30T20:20:21Z<p>ThunderGod Cid: /* Shade Blast -- Huh? */</p>
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<div>== BAB and Saves ==<br />
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[[Base attack bonus]] and saves follow set progressions. BAB follows Poor (+0.5 per level), Medium (+.75 per level) and Full (+1 per level). Saves either work on a Bad (+0 -> +6) or Good (+2 -> +12). The BAB of this class does not follow any of the three, infact it's worse. It gains +0.3 per level nearly! It should be changed to the poor progression. The Bad saves are in order, but the good save should change to +3 at level 2 and then progress from there. <br />
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Also, I didn't ask your permission to format. OH WELL. --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 07:11, 13 May 2009 (MDT)<br />
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I enjoy people like you, at least you have the sarcasm to be an asshole about being an asshole. And, yes again the BAB gets fucked up. Sincerely, --[[User:Avlindrel FallenTree|Avlindrel FallenTree]] 19:07, 13 May 2009 (MDT) P.S. Still going to talk to an admin about it.<br />
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== Shade Blast -- Huh? ==<br />
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What does it even mean to channel the [[SRD:Darkness|Darkness]] spell into a ray? I don't get it. Similarly, Tome of Shadows. How does that even work? It just says "you can construct one" and then goes on to give absolutely zero mechanics for doing so. [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] 14:08, 14 May 2009 (MDT)<br />
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:I would think that the author meant darkness in general and not ''[[darkness]]'' the spell (although I will fully agree that it is extremely confusing to put the link to the spell there). Mechanics-wise (and this is feedback for the author more than anyone else), it doesn't make any sense for it to be the spell since the shade blast can be used at 1st level and ''darkness'' is a second level spell. Additionally, it is was the spell the ray could only be used a certain number of times per day (assuming you had to give up a daily use of ''darkness'' for the ray), instead of being usable once per round (seemingly at will, similar to a warlock's eldritch blast). I'm guessing that the latter is the way it's supposed to be. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|ThunderGod Cid]] 16:21, 14 May 2009 (MDT)<br />
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::Yeah, it doesn't make sense. The link isn't a link to the spell, but it's italicized in the same way that you would italicize a spell (and not the other reference). [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] 16:25, 14 May 2009 (MDT)<br />
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:::The link to the Darkness spell was done by someone else who didn't have my permission to edit, Shade Blast -is- effectively a differing version of the Warlock's Eldritch Blast, though it's powered (As stated) by the Summon Darkness spell that the Darkbringer has. I'll fix the problem here in a moment, thanks for bringing it to my attention! Oh, and in regards to the Tome of Shadows, it's not really an extra mechanic so much as an item to store the "Symbol of" spells, as well as give them a little more spell ability than they have (Because they have fewer spells available.) --[[User:Avlindrel FallenTree|Avlindrel FallenTree]] 17:27, 14 May 2009 (MDT)<br />
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::::The link to Darkness was there before that person edited the page. Again, I really have no idea what the Tome of Shadows actually does. Is it a spellbook or something? [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] 17:33, 14 May 2009 (MDT)<br />
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:::::It is, and isn't. It functions more as a portable handful of scrolls. One scroll at 6th, two at 12th, and three at 18th. And, you can effectively use it for Symbol of- spells. --[[User:Avlindrel FallenTree|Avlindrel FallenTree]] 17:58, 14 May 2009 (MDT) P.S. And, as I said with the fix, you could also use it as a trap.<br />
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::::::So how much does it cost to make? How much time does it take to make? How many can you have at once? Etc. [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] 18:02, 14 May 2009 (MDT)<br />
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:::::::There we go, -now- I know what you're getting at. Fixed. --[[User:Avlindrel FallenTree|Avlindrel FallenTree]] 18:41, 14 May 2009 (MDT)<br />
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::::::::So how is this Shade Blast supposed to hit anyone? Even at level 20 with Ray Weapon Focus and a Dex Modifier of 4, the highest attack bonus it can get is 15. As you reach higher levels, your enemies will likely be harder to take down. Maybe I'm crazy, but if the Shade Blast is the primary attack of this class, there needs to be something to make it much easier for the attack to hit. Hold Person, Ghoul Touch, etc. can't really cut it against enemies that have even a pretty mediocre will save for a higher level character. Is there anything that could be added to the class that would enhance the attack roll of Shade Blast specifically? Would it be bad to go back to having Shade Blast be a standard action and then give the class the Cleric BAB?--[[User:Lemonator44|Lemonator44]] 23:19, 14 August 2009 (MDT)<br />
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::::::::The same way Eldritch Blast would. It's modeled right after it, and, you forget, it's a Ray, making it a ranged touch, which ignores everything -but- the DEX bonus of the opponent. --[[User:Avlindrel FallenTree|Avlindrel FallenTree]] 13:18, 15 August 2009 (MDT)<br />
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:::::::::Shade Blast seems to be missing a range. The amount of damage that the ability does seems excessive. The damage is the same as a [[SRD:Fireball|''fireball'']] spell with no damage cap, just to one target a round, with unlimited uses. I would suggest making the damage progression similar to the progression of an average attack bonus. Also, the Summon Shades ability does not have a duration. <[[User:Enialis|Enialis]] 12:41, 30 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
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::::::::::That's really not that much damage. A fighter can do better, and it's not even that great of a class. It's an OK amount damage (maybe), but hardly unreasonable. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 14:20, 30 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
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== Rating ==<br />
<br />
'''Power – 3.5/5''' This class seems kind of all over the place so far as power is concerned. On the one hand, the ability to spontaneously cast any spell from your spell list and still gain bonus spells per day as a wizard is strong enough to offset the seemingly undercut normal spells per day. On the other side of it, shade blast seems almost pathetically weak, dealing 5d8 damage at 20th level as a standard action (since it’s not specifically stated, I’m assuming that’s what it is) or 5d10 as a full-round action. That’s not enough damage for level 20, considering I had guessed that shade blast was supposed to be the main source of damage. I suppose I was wrong.<br />
<br />
Tome of Shadows seems almost pointless for the purposes of combat unless you could somehow compel the person to open the book magically, in which case you should probably be able to get the drop on them without its use. By the way, death knell doesn’t seem like the best example spell to use in this case, since the creature touched by the caster has to be dying in order to be affected.<br />
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Otherwise, Shadow Form and Summon Shade are OK. My main issue is with the shade blast (which I already went over) and Shadow’s Guidance (which is more of an issue with wording than power, so I’ll get to that). I also think that some provision shout be made in this class for being able to see in the dark; your abilities aren’t going to do you much good if you can’t see when you use them. <br />
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One more thing: even though TK-Squared already commented on it, I don’t understand the purpose of only having one attack for the BAB, given that even wizards get two at high level. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 14:23, 15 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
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:Getting better. I'll call it a 4.5 now. The main issue as of now is with the Shade Blast; the rest looks good. Is shade blast supposed to deal 1d6 damage per darkbringer level now? If so, I might suggest making it a standard action, making it so you can use only once per round. I only really suggested the BAB change because that way, if you're ever forced into melee, you won't be hopelessly screwed. When you can choose to either deal 1d6 per level to one target at will or cast spells, I think it's appropriately powered. Vision Through the Darkness is also quite a useful addition, minimizing the potentially glaring weakness of the class (although I don't think there's a See in Darkness spell that I'm aware of). I think just saying that he can see in darkness (magical or normal) as well as he can see in normal light is fine. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 19:49, 17 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
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::I suggested the Shade Blast change. What's wrong with being able to use it as an attack action, and having it do 1d6 per level? See in Darkness isn't a spell, it's an ability of fiends that works exactly in the way one wants. [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] 21:39, 17 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
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::OK, that makes sense; I was just pointing See In Darkness out because the link didn't go anywhere. As for the Shade Blast, I was just thinking about the warlock's eldritch blast (admittedly underpowered, but only dealing 1d6 per about every two levels instead of id6 per level. Given the low BAB, I'm OK with it as is. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 08:42, 18 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
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'''Wording – 4/5''' Your wording is clear and concise in most areas, but Shadow’s Guidance seems uncharacteristically poorly worded. If I’m reading it right (and if I’m wrong, by all means correct me), I think it’s supposed to extend the range of a spell beyond the norm so long as the spell’s path is through darkness. After that, it’s mostly just minor things like Shade Touch being used instead of Shade Blast in the Weapon and Armor Proficiency section. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 14:23, 15 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
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:Better now. Worthy of a 5, I'd say. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 19:49, 17 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
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'''[[Help:Standards and Formatting (DnD Guideline)|Formatting]] - 4/5''' Your formatting is good; while there could be more links (particularly in the middle of the class features), they are certainly not lacking. A lot of people don’t seem to take the time to format their spell list, so good job with that. Other than that, it all looks good except for the fact that there’s no sample NPC (I can sympathize, I never make mine). - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 14:23, 15 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
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:4.5 for now until sample NPC is up. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 19:49, 17 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
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'''Flavor - 4/5''' Mostly good. The fluff sections aren't super-amazing, but they’re solid. It piqued my interest well, and the picture is great. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 14:23, 15 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
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<br />
::Thanks alot for the rating, ThunderGod. You've given me some things to look over in regards to this class, and I really appreciate it. With that said, let me do a little work on it, see if I can't bump some of those ratings up a bit, eh? --[[User:Avlindrel FallenTree|Avlindrel FallenTree]] 22:22, 16 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== Permission ==<br />
<br />
I would like your permission to post an editted version of this up on the GiantITP forums.<br />
--[[User:NecroticPunch|NecroticPunch]] 10:25, 6 November 2010 (MDT)<br />
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== Rating == <br />
<br />
'''Power - <<<1>>>/5''' I give this class a <<<1>>> out of 5 because <<<This class is ENTIRELY OP. 20d10 damage is too much>>> --[[Special:Contributions/76.115.203.125|76.115.203.125]] 07:06, 22 March 2011 (MDT)<br />
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'''Wording - <<<2>>>/5''' I give this class a <<<2>>> out of 5 because <<<The creator doesn't know SHIT>>> --[[Special:Contributions/76.115.203.125|76.115.203.125]] 07:06, 22 March 2011 (MDT)<br />
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'''[[Help:Standards and Formatting (DnD Guideline)|Formatting]] - <<<4>>>/5''' I give this class a <<<4>>> out of 5 because <<<even broken, they follow the rules>>> --[[Special:Contributions/76.115.203.125|76.115.203.125]] 07:06, 22 March 2011 (MDT)<br />
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'''Flavor - <<<4>>>/5''' I give this class a <<<4>>> out of 5 because <<<It is still a good and interesting idea>>> --[[Special:Contributions/76.115.203.125|76.115.203.125]] 07:06, 22 March 2011 (MDT)</div>ThunderGod Cidhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Help_talk:D%26D_Links&diff=520332Help talk:D&D Links2011-05-30T20:14:55Z<p>ThunderGod Cid: /* http://www.dnd-wiki.org */</p>
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<div>== Kingdoms of Kalamar ==<br />
I recently started working Kalamar as a setting in my tabletop games, and would love to post some information here... But that would take too long right now. HOWEVER, could we put the link to the Living Kingdoms of Kalamar website?<br />
Link: http://www.kenzerco.com/index.php?cPath=25_28<br />
Thanks! -- [[User:xidoraven|xido]] 10:33, 19 September 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== Very usefull links ==<br />
<br />
Here are a few links that I find VERY usefull. Sinse I am unclear about copyright rules I felt it was better to post them here in discussion. Feel free to add or delete them as you see fit.<br />
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I find these links to be very usefull in my own campain writing.<br />
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http://nine.frenchboys.net/<br />
The best name genorator I have found. Simple and effective.<br />
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http://www.pathguy.com/cg35.htm<br />
A very good charecter genoration tool. I use this for all the importaint NPCs that I make. Also, it helps to put a players charecter through this so you can double check your math.<br />
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http://www.20000-names.com/<br />
Lots of good names. The website is annoyingly full of advertisments.<br />
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http://www.aarg.net/~minam/npc2.cgi<br />
A good NPC genorator. It is faster and more random then the genorator above, and also will create multiple charecters at once. It will add a few random background details that are usefull for when your players start asking annoying questions.<br />
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http://forums.rpghost.com/<br />
This Forum looks usefull, but I havnt had time to explore it much. I cant recomend it yet but I hope I will be able to soon.<br />
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--[[User:Mander|Mander]] 15:57, 1 December 2007 (MST)<br />
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:Free free to add them, they all look good. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 23:14, 4 December 2007 (MST)<br />
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::Sweet. Dont add them for me, I need to learn this stuff. --[[User:Mander|Mander]] 14:24, 5 December 2007 (MST)<br />
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:::Okay, will do. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 14:34, 5 December 2007 (MST)<br />
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::::Um... cant seem to find an edit button. Apparently I failed my seach check.--[[User:Mander|Mander]] 14:37, 5 December 2007 (MST)<br />
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:::::Ah... I forgot to check if this page is protected, which it is. I will un-protect it until you have added them (about half an hour). --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 14:42, 5 December 2007 (MST)<br />
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::::::Sorry about the bad timing. I logged out right after my last post, and didnt check back untell now. I can't make the change today because right now it is (trumpit fanfare!) game time! Im sure you wouldn't hold THAT against me.--[[User:Mander|Mander]] 16:57, 5 December 2007 (MST)<br />
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:::::::Not at all ''':)'''. I'll just leave it unlocked until you edit it. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 18:48, 5 December 2007 (MST)<br />
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::::::::Done --[[User:Mander|Mander]] 14:51, 6 December 2007 (MST)<br />
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:::::::::Thanks for doing that, and that page has been locked again. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]]<br />
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== Point Buy Calculator ==<br />
<br />
I found a quick-to-load, quick-to-run point buy calcuator at http://www.hackslash.net/?p=73. It's probably fairly basic, but was a godsend to me as a noobie. There are some other D&D typish tools at the site as well. --[[User:Arohanui|Arohanui]] 13:26, 17 January 2008 (MST)<br />
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:I have added it. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:00, 18 January 2008 (MST)<br />
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== Character Sheet ==<br />
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Personally one of my favorite character sheets. Well organized and color coded for easy use. [http://www.mediafire.com/?m1jerz3gypp Created by SombreNote] {{Unsigned|76.111.162.234|18:47, 8 April 2008 (MST)} <br />
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:To add this we would need a static link which does not just redirect the visitor to another link. If you can supply such a link this will be considered. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 02:00, 9 April 2008 (MDT)<br />
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::I changed the link to the download page.<br />
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== Useful resources ==<br />
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I'd like to post some websites that have useful, and *free* resources.<br />
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The first is Planewalker--Spells, Creatures, and Equipment<br />
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http://www.planewalker.com/snail/travel.php (the spells)<br />
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http://www.planewalker.com/snail/equipment.php (the equipment, the top section is for undefined items and the lower sections have equipment, magical items, and artifacts)<br />
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http://www.planewalker.com/codex/monsters.php (creatures)<br />
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== Naming Error ==<br />
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Basic DnD is reproduced as [http://www.goblinoidgames.com/labyrinthlord.htm Labyrinth Lord], OSRIC is ADnD 1st edition, which are different games.<br />
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== New Campaign World ==<br />
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http://www.zyanyacampaign.com/ - Has a lot of free content, as well as forums and chatrooms for gaming.<br />
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== New Section? ==<br />
Should we add a section of links to Gaming Organizations/Groups, such as RPGA, O.G.R.E.s, Ultimate Gamers, etc? &nbsp;<small><span style="border: 1px solid blue; -moz-border-radius:10px">[[User:Hooper|'''<span style="background-color:White; color:FireBrick; -moz-border-radius-topleft:10px; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:10px"> Hooper </span>''']][[User talk:Hooper|<span style="background-color:red; color:blue; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:10px; -moz-border-radius-topleft:10px">&nbsp;&nbsp;talk&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|<span style="background-color:red; color:blue">&nbsp;&nbsp;contribs&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|<span style="background-color:red; color:blue; -moz-border-radius-bottomright:10px; -moz-border-radius-topright:10px">&nbsp;&nbsp;email&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]]</span></small> 22:14, 16 August 2009 (MDT)<br />
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== Useful Links ==<br />
if we're adding links to this page, my hands down favorite refrence is [http://www.penpaperpixel.org/ Pen Paper Pixel] they have [http://www.penpaperpixel.org/tools/d20spellfilter/ spell filters], [http://www.penpaperpixel.org/tools/d20monsterfilter/ monster filters], [http://www.penpaperpixel.org/tools/d20encountercalculator.htm encounter calculators] (for XP and loot), and of course a lovely dice bag. Not to mention a very helpful, auto-updating [http://www.penpaperpixel.org/downloadspage/ppnpplayercharactersheets.htm PDF character sheet], which everyone in my party uses. --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 07:21, 1 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Eddition ==<br />
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All DnD pages are being moved to their corresponding editions. This paqe needs to be moved to either 3.5e or 4e. --[[User:Vrail|Vrail]] 03:50, 23 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== http://www.dnd-wiki.org ==<br />
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I do not think that [[DnD Links#Dungeons and Dragons Wiki|this link]] deserves a spot on this list. The organizational structure as well as much of the content is under a different license and in all reality one needs to start a court case and get it removed from this violation of law. As such I do not think that it is a a good idea to direct users there. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 11:30, 25 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
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:According to the bottom page of their wiki, you are free to copy, transmit, adapt, or distribute anything on their site, as long as you attribute it properly. As long as you don't take their content, and then modify and sell it, you're within legal bounds. I see no reason why we should remove a link because you don't like their organizational structure. I am positively disgusted by the Grand OGL wiki, but I don't complain about that site. I've been there, realized I don't like the way they do things, and haven't been back. --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 13:46, 25 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
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::This is getting a little ridiculous. It's obvious that GD doesn't like the other wiki, and is finding excuses to keep from linking there. If someone would just come out and explain what the big problem is then maybe this would all make sense. [[User:Jazzman831|Jazz]][[User talk:Jazzman831|Man]] 15:41, 25 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
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:::Much of the content is from here. That's where the problem is. It's not whatever [[User:Badger|Badger]] is talking about. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 15:53, 25 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
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::::This wiki used to claim that users could remove *their own* content at any time. When users started to, this wiki outright changed the content rules, and Green Dragon changed the rules, literally claimed ownership over things other people wrote, and now wants to sue people for posting their own classes elsewhere. [[Special:Contributions/24.131.19.27|24.131.19.27]] 16:52, 25 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
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:::::Really? This has nothing to do with D&D Wiki policies. It's unlawful. D&D Wiki is not a government/international treaty. The answer to your question lies elswhere&ndash; see pages like Wikipedia's Terms of Use. How do they have reuse things? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 16:53, 25 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
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::::::I removed this link as directing users these does not make sense for it is uncertain what they expect of users as they disregard law. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:16, 26 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
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:::::::I hope you realize that you can be sued for libel for making such anger-motivated false accusations of illegality. And if you tell such lies to police, then you can be charged with making a false police report. Out in the real world, beyond the isolated alternate world that is this wiki, people are sometimes actually held accountable for malicious lies. [[User:Archetyper|Archetyper]] 01:03, 27 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
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:::::::First, what you have written above here is not understandable English to me. Second, what I ''think'' I understand, you don't want to direct users there because they break the law. You still haven't said what law they broke. Quit saying "they aren't a government/international treaty", actually tell me what they did. --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 20:33, 26 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
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::::::::I thought I did. Did you end up checking how Wikipedia's Terms of Use work? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:41, 26 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
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:::::::::I just read the ToU, and here's what I have: "For any text you hold the copyright to, by submitting it, you agree to license it under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License". According to the bottom of their page, it says "Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported" which exactly what is required by the rules. Every seems fair and legal to me. --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 20:55, 26 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
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::::::::::Right. So how are things under the GNU FDL v1.2 suddenly somehow not? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 21:02, 26 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
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:::::::::::Actually, this begs a new question. I thought our policy was to use Wikipedia's policy? Why are we using GNU FDL, and not CC-BY-SA like they are? --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 21:39, 26 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
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::::::::::::Why use rules and policies when they wouldn't? Its a site of brutish users ''(mostly, not all)'' and it had devolved far from D&D wiki's purpose. Plus, it seems to be down more than this site. So why send people there? Remove it. &nbsp;<small><span style="border: 1px solid black; -moz-border-radius:10px">[[User:Hooper|'''<span style="background-color:White; color:Black; -moz-border-radius-topleft:10px; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:10px"> Hooper </span>''']][[User talk:Hooper|<span style="background-color:Black; color:white; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:10px; -moz-border-radius-topleft:10px">&nbsp;&nbsp;talk&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|<span style="background-color:black; color:white">&nbsp;&nbsp;contribs&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|<span style="background-color:black; color:white; -moz-border-radius-bottomright:10px; -moz-border-radius-topright:10px">&nbsp;&nbsp;email&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]]</span></small> 21:50, 26 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
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:::::::::::::Hooper, no offense, but what are you going on about? Why use rules and policies when they wouldn't? What policies do we use that they don't? I mean, sure, there are a few things that we do differently, but that doesn't mean they have nothing to add to the Homebrew community. Wikipedia is full of brutish users and downtime, or D&D-wiki.org? Most everyone I've interacted with on either site has seemed quite nice (some are gruff, and some are silly, but the same could be said of this site). I've never seen their servers down, especially compared to the downtime in our past here. They devolved from our purpose here? Are they hosting content for tea parties now, instead of D&D Homebrew? Why would I link people there? I've, on multiple occasions, seen places where users have asked "anyone know how I can get in touch with <User on other Wiki>?". It would be helpful if I could say "Here, try their talk page on <this site>". --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 22:03, 26 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
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{{Discussion Indentation Revert}}<br />
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:''Policies'', not licensing. They are different. I agree&ndash; people should play D&D, but if a site is not adhering to laws then I don't think that directing people there is a good idea. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:09, 26 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
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:::If by "illegal" you mean things like child porn or bootlegs, then sure, we shouldn't post there. But something that we need a team of lawyers to decide whether or not it's breaking the law (and even then, they probably wouldn't all agree)? Probably not that big of a deal. If it's clear we don't endorse it (and it is), then what's the fuss? [[User:Jazzman831|Jazz]][[User talk:Jazzman831|Man]] 08:10, 27 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
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::According to the official GNU FDL 1.3 FAQ, 'The primary change is the addition of section 11. This new provision allows certain materials released under this license to also be used under the terms of CC-BY-SA 3.0. For more information about exactly what materials can be licensed this way, see the related questions below. As part of this change, we also introduced a new definition in section 1.<br />
<br />
*In order to license an FDL-covered work under CC-BY-SA 3.0, a few conditions must be met:<br />
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1. The work must be available under the terms of FDL 1.3, which provides you with this permission. If the work was released under the terms of “the GNU Free Documentation License, version 1.2 or (at your option) any later version,” then it meets this criteria.<br />
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2. The work must not have any “Cover Texts” or “Invariant Sections.” These are optional features in all versions of the FDL.<br />
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3. If the work was originally published somewhere other than a public wiki, it must have been added to a wiki (or some other kind of web site where the general public could review and edit the materials) before November 1, 2008.<br />
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4. All FDL-covered material added to Wikipedia before November 1, 2008 satisfies these conditions.<br />
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Source: "GFDL v.1.3 FAQ", GNU Project. Free Software Foundation, n.d. Web, 27 May. 2011.<br />
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::As near as I can tell, the other DnD Wiki is legally allowed to have its content under the Creative Commons. - Anon.<br />
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:::Anon, you are actually incorrect, unfortunately. This wiki uses GNU FDL 1.2 and no licenses can just suddenly retroactively patch a previous license.<br />
:::The rest is mostly written to Green Dragon:<br />
:::Green Dragon, you may benefit from reading the following from wikipedia: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authors%27_rights] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_Convention_for_the_Protection_of_Literary_and_Artistic_Works]. Here are a few facts about the legality of this whole ordeal:<br />
:::*Creative works (ie. homebrew in this case) is the property of the author, regardless of what licenses the author decides to release it under.<br />
:::*GNU FDL applies to what people ''other than the author'' can do with the creative work. Actually, this is the case for any license. The author always owns their own creative work.<br />
:::*An author can re-release their own work under multiple licenses.<br />
:::Having established that, it is pretty clear the other wiki is not violating any laws. There is a case where the GNU FDL might take effect and that is the case of where there are multiple creative contributors (note that copyediting does not count!) and one or more the the contributors do not agree to re-release the content under the new license. I can say with a fair bit of certainty that anything that the other wiki has "taken" was created by singular authors (or at least consenting authors). If you can find ''any'' case where this is not true, I am certain that the other wiki would remove the content. From my experience, they are actually far ''more'' proactive than this website with respecting proper licensing laws (for example this website does not follow proper image licensing laws or at least isn't clear about what licensing for an image is).<br />
:::Now, just to make some things perfectly clear, Green Dragon:<br />
:::*You do not own the work of other authors.<br />
:::*You cannot sue for copyright infringement in place of other authors.<br />
:::Okay. Legality aside, let's talk about the root reason behind this. It might be a bit of speculation on my part, but someone mentioned that it seemed that you were almost ready to bury the hatchet and stop this nonsense of "don't talk about the other wiki" (that's why I'm even at this site right now). I'm certainly ready to let the past be the past, but you need to understand that it offends people when you muck around with their creative works. I honestly think that this whole business would never have got out of had if that offense wasn't made. We finally relented that, yes, you can totally not delete our creative work because we did choose to license it under FDL and that you ''might'' have grounds to remove the author box (but at this point nobody really cares anymore). And now this silly business of suing us for relicensing our own creative works?<br />
:::Well, it is a bit offensive, frankly. People don't like being told that they don't own their ideas (note: they do). So here is my point: just drop this whole nonsense about legality. You are just reigniting flames by offending the authors from the other wiki and for no real point. You have no actual legal grounds (unless we have messed up in some corner case with multiple authors, in which case it will be corrected -- just let me know). And, you know, it would be nice of you to actually keep the link here. --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 13:33, 27 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
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::::Wrong. Wikipedia is not plagiarized and see also its Terms of Use. You are making something up to suit your needs, which only a country/international treaty can really do. Also, ask the FSF&ndash; they have given me the same answer multiple times. Continuing to misinform users will result in repercussions. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 15:24, 27 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
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:::::Don't {{Warning/Text}} threats of lawsuit against this other wiki go against the general idea of open source and creative commons? --[[Special:Contributions/80.2.187.238|80.2.187.238]] 16:07, 27 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
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::::{{warning|comparedselectedrevisions=http://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk%3ADnD_Links&action=historysubmit&diff=520031&oldid=520024|brokenpolicy=direct rudeness: personal attacks|warningnumber=1|warningbannumber=1|issuedate=Issued on 16:20, 27 May 2011 (MDT)|signature=--[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 16:20, 27 May 2011 (MDT)}}<br />
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::::::No. It's about adhering to the law, normally a precursor to understanding one's contribution is in good hands (democracy equates to laws with reason). And what does this have to do with open source or creative commons? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 16:20, 27 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
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:::::::"Wrong. Wikipedia is not plagiarized and see also its Terms of Use". --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]]<br />
:::::::I never said that. Please don't strawman.<br />
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:::::::"You are making something up to suit your needs, which only a country/international treaty can really do."<br />
:::::::Really? You actually believe that I'm just making up things to do with authorship laws? This page from wikipedia [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Multi-licensing] explains quite succinctly that every single edit a user makes on a wiki is totally theirs to license. Yes. This means I can take crap I wrote an relicense it freely. That applies to anyone here. If you want some specific excerpts:<br />
::::::*"A number of users have chosen to release their contributions under some other license, or even to release their contributions into the public domain. Dual- or multi-licensing is not required or suggested by Wikipedia, but some users—for a variety of ideological or other reasons—prefer to release their contributions under a wider range of terms."<br />
::::::**Yes -- we get to choose what happens to our stuff even after the first licensing.<br />
::::::*"In general, users make their multi-licensing desires known on their user page by way of a banner or some description of their wishes"<br />
<br />
:::::::"Also, ask the FSF&ndash; they have given me the same answer multiple times."<br />
:::::::What answer have they given and to what?<br />
<br />
:::::::"Continuing to misinform users will result in repercussions."<br />
:::::::I assume a warning/banning? I'm the one who is coming with some actual facts and evidence to back my claims up. Or were you talking about yourself there? --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 17:19, 27 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
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:::::::Oh yeah. This too [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Free_Documentation_License]:<br />
:::::::*"These exemptions allow a GFDL-based collaborative project with multiple authors to transition to the CC-BY-SA 3.0 license '''(which would normally require the permission of every author)''', if the work satisfies several conditions" (emphasis is mine). --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 17:25, 27 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
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::::::::"However, individual contributions are not by themselves derivative works because they do not contain any of the original work, as the copyright still remains with the author. It is within one's rights to license those contributions under any terms one prefers, so long as one does it in addition to also being covered under the CC-BY-SA license." &ndash; have you read the GNU FDL v1.2? A single period in a sentence does not mean that is how it is, end of story. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 17:29, 27 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
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:::::::::Green Dragon, did they steal any work you authored? My guess is no. If no one has come to them with a legit claim of "you stole my class 'Forest Avenger'", then I suspect original authors consented to this re-licensing of their works under CC-BY-SA. --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 17:39, 27 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
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::::::::::Yes, they did. Much of my work, for example, was stolen. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 17:48, 27 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
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:::::::::::Considering individual contributions don't count toward "your work", as your above comment clearly indicates, I am genuinely surprised by that. I recall having to move over any of my contributions I wanted on their wiki. Can you give a specific example of a class, feat, or other page that you wrote that is on their wiki? --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 17:55, 27 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
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::::::::::::[[3.5e Homebrew]] and many spells I worked on, for example. And how does my comment not indicate that also, yes, user contributions are important? And why does this matter? Why is this continuing to be discussed? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:32, 27 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
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:::::::::::::Why are we still discussing this? Because, as the page clearly states, we can continue to discuss this. Clearly some people disagree with your ruling. I am under the impression that any content on their site is there under a second license, and therefore not illegal. You've yet to provide any evidence to the contrary. You claim they stole "3.5e Homebrew". What, all of it? That is clearly untrue. Perhaps you mean the page itself? Well, their code is pretty different from ours here, I checked. A bunch of spells you worked on? Again, I notice a distinct lack of names. Furthermore, if they are spells you ''worked on'', rather than ''created'', the original author may have released them under the new license, as I have suggested is likely. This is an important distinction to make, because we are on an MMC. As your citation of the GNU FDL v1.2 clearly states "individual contributions are not by themselves derivative works because they do not contain any of the original work, as the copyright still remains with the author". This means that if I make a spelling correction on a page, I am not considered an author. If you ''worked on'' a page by formatting it a certain way, or making a minor change, you don't get to count yourself as the original author. The original author, whomever they may be, may have released their content under a new license. You'd have no way of knowing, as they aren't required to tell you about it. You've not provided any evidence of them committing a crime, but continue to accuse them of ones. That, my friend, is why we are still discussing this. <br />
<br />
:::::::::::::On another note, if you are going to hand out warnings on this page, may I suggest you give one to Hooper for his direct rudeness to others when he called them "brutish". --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 20:44, 27 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
<br />
{{Discussion Indentation Revert}}<br />
<br />
:Archtyper's comment is right on, as is Badger's; your allegations are not only offensive but also groundless and unprovoked. You're the one treading on risky legal ground by throwing accusations of stealing information when the original authors were well within their rights as the original creators to take their own works elsewhere under a different license. You should give yourself a warning for a change and stop making completely false and unspecified accusations in an issue where you are displaying a clearly distasteful bias towards the other party. You are only causing more problems for yourself by falsely accusing others of wrongdoings that you cannot present evidence to support. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 21:14, 27 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::To continue this discussion you need to provide something new to the discussion. As Wikipedia and the FSF does, so does law. Please note "copyright"; "so long as one does it in addition" and please read the GNU FDL v1.2. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 21:36, 27 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::I think I've found the root of the problem here. Green Dragon, when you read the GNU FDL v1.2, you read this part:<br />
{{quote|You may copy and distribute the Document in any medium, either commercially or noncommercially, provided that this License, the copyright notices, and the license notice saying this License applies to the Document are reproduced in all copies, '''and that you add no other conditions whatsoever to those of this License.'''|orig=GNU FDL v1.2, bold added for emphasis}}<br />
<br />
:::Here's the problem: That bolded section refers to additional conditions added to the GNU FDL content. It means if it is ''only'' released under GNU FDL v1.2, then you can't add on conditions like "you must pay me a royalty for every copy sold". That line, however, '''does not''' restrict relicensing. Any content on D&D-Wiki.Org has been relicensed, and is not bound by the rules of the GNU FDL v1.2 as they are on this wiki. I'd like to end this comment as I end so many others: Nothing illegal is going on. --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 22:18, 29 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::Did you read section 9? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:21, 29 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::I have read Section 9. The clause you are referring to states that you may have no other conditions. Relicensing does not qualify as a condition. --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 00:00, 30 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
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::::::What are the conditions of the new license? The FSF would not have overlooked something like this when I asked them. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 00:06, 30 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
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:::::::Considering it's not under GNU FDL v1.2 it shouldn't even matter, but here are the conditions:<br />
:::::::*You must attribute the work in the manner specified by the author or licensor (but not in any way that suggests that they endorse you or your use of the work.<br />
:::::::*If you alter, transform, or build upon this work, you may distribute the resulting work only under the same or similar license to this one.<br />
:::::::It's in the same spirit as the GNU FDL v1.2, but is specially designed for wikis and other MMCs. It is the standard CC-BY-SA. Really, it's the license we should be using, but that's a different discussion. --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 00:20, 30 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
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::::::''Discussion moved from [[User Talk:Hooper#On DnD Links and Alternate Communities]].'' <small>--[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 01:50, 30 May 2011 (MDT)</small><br />
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::::::::I ''almost'' completely agree with you. I am totally content focusing on a single wiki. I spend nearly all my time here. I only check them when we're down here. I don't see why we should pretend they don't exist, though. Sometimes we'll get a user who has a question that could be better addressed by them. In the spirit of communal nerd building, we might as well allow links. If someone wants to support a campaign over there to allow links to here, I'm guessing they'd be ok with that. They might not send a lot our way, but I doubt they'd fight links that were well placed and reasonable. -- [[User:Badger|Badger]] 22:31, 29 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::Yeah. I personally feel like saying "lets not go out of our way to co-link, but if its a common sense linkage by a user, let it be" then we should be okay. But then we get into "what defines common sense link" and all that psycho analyzation. &nbsp;<small><span style="border: 1px solid black; -moz-border-radius:10px">[[User:Hooper|'''<span style="background-color:White; color:Black; -moz-border-radius-topleft:10px; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:10px"> Hooper </span>''']][[User talk:Hooper|<span style="background-color:Black; color:white; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:10px; -moz-border-radius-topleft:10px">&nbsp;&nbsp;talk&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|<span style="background-color:black; color:white">&nbsp;&nbsp;contribs&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|<span style="background-color:black; color:white; -moz-border-radius-bottomright:10px; -moz-border-radius-topright:10px">&nbsp;&nbsp;email&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]]</span></small> 23:13, 29 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::::That is a sentiment I ''completely'' agree with. I don't expect us to include a little template at the bottom of every page with a "See this link on D&D-Wiki"; I just want to be able to answer a question on a talk page with "If you're trying to get in tough with Eiji, try his talk page <here>", with an external link, and not get banned/blocked/warned for solicitation. I don't imagine we're ever going to merge back into a single wiki, and I'm fine with that. I'm just looking at it from a community standpoint, and I want to be helpful to as many people as I can, and alienate as few as possible. It looks as if Green Dragon is realizing that is a reasonable request. --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 00:33, 30 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::Right, but still the conditions of the two different licenses are different. I agree allowing links to them is an idea. I would be totally for it save this licensing problem. It really boils down to that if D&D Wiki allows a disregarding of the GNU FDL v1.2 then we creating confusion for users who are submitting with the GNU FDL v1.2 in mind as well as those who desire to use D&D Wiki's content. For example would the [[Coin Golem (3.5e Creature)]] have had the same results or would a serious problem have occurred? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 01:50, 30 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::::::Point of order: what exactly is the FSF you keep referring to? [[User:Jazzman831|Jazz]][[User talk:Jazzman831|Man]] 08:42, 30 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::::FSF is the Free Software Foundation. They are the people that created the GNU licenses (including the FDL one that this wiki uses). --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 09:24, 30 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::::::::I still find it premature to say there is a licensing problem without citing any specific articles that were not imported by the same people who imported them here, making them either the original authors or the people who posted them with permission of the original authors. Until said specific evidence is provided, it cannot be said that dual licensing rules are being violated as the original authors still hold copyright, and all the evidence above suggests to me that said ownership allows the reproduction of those articles under a different license to be perfectly legal. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 14:14, 30 May 2011 (MDT)</div>ThunderGod Cidhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Help_talk:D%26D_Links&diff=520060Help talk:D&D Links2011-05-28T03:14:04Z<p>ThunderGod Cid: /* http://www.dnd-wiki.org */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Kingdoms of Kalamar ==<br />
I recently started working Kalamar as a setting in my tabletop games, and would love to post some information here... But that would take too long right now. HOWEVER, could we put the link to the Living Kingdoms of Kalamar website?<br />
Link: http://www.kenzerco.com/index.php?cPath=25_28<br />
Thanks! -- [[User:xidoraven|xido]] 10:33, 19 September 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== Very usefull links ==<br />
<br />
Here are a few links that I find VERY usefull. Sinse I am unclear about copyright rules I felt it was better to post them here in discussion. Feel free to add or delete them as you see fit.<br />
<br />
I find these links to be very usefull in my own campain writing.<br />
<br />
http://nine.frenchboys.net/<br />
The best name genorator I have found. Simple and effective.<br />
<br />
http://www.pathguy.com/cg35.htm<br />
A very good charecter genoration tool. I use this for all the importaint NPCs that I make. Also, it helps to put a players charecter through this so you can double check your math.<br />
<br />
http://www.20000-names.com/<br />
Lots of good names. The website is annoyingly full of advertisments.<br />
<br />
http://www.aarg.net/~minam/npc2.cgi<br />
A good NPC genorator. It is faster and more random then the genorator above, and also will create multiple charecters at once. It will add a few random background details that are usefull for when your players start asking annoying questions.<br />
<br />
http://forums.rpghost.com/<br />
This Forum looks usefull, but I havnt had time to explore it much. I cant recomend it yet but I hope I will be able to soon.<br />
<br />
--[[User:Mander|Mander]] 15:57, 1 December 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:Free free to add them, they all look good. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 23:14, 4 December 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::Sweet. Dont add them for me, I need to learn this stuff. --[[User:Mander|Mander]] 14:24, 5 December 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::Okay, will do. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 14:34, 5 December 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::Um... cant seem to find an edit button. Apparently I failed my seach check.--[[User:Mander|Mander]] 14:37, 5 December 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::Ah... I forgot to check if this page is protected, which it is. I will un-protect it until you have added them (about half an hour). --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 14:42, 5 December 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::Sorry about the bad timing. I logged out right after my last post, and didnt check back untell now. I can't make the change today because right now it is (trumpit fanfare!) game time! Im sure you wouldn't hold THAT against me.--[[User:Mander|Mander]] 16:57, 5 December 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::Not at all ''':)'''. I'll just leave it unlocked until you edit it. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 18:48, 5 December 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::::Done --[[User:Mander|Mander]] 14:51, 6 December 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::Thanks for doing that, and that page has been locked again. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]]<br />
<br />
== Point Buy Calculator ==<br />
<br />
I found a quick-to-load, quick-to-run point buy calcuator at http://www.hackslash.net/?p=73. It's probably fairly basic, but was a godsend to me as a noobie. There are some other D&D typish tools at the site as well. --[[User:Arohanui|Arohanui]] 13:26, 17 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:I have added it. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:00, 18 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
== Character Sheet ==<br />
<br />
Personally one of my favorite character sheets. Well organized and color coded for easy use. [http://www.mediafire.com/?m1jerz3gypp Created by SombreNote] {{Unsigned|76.111.162.234|18:47, 8 April 2008 (MST)} <br />
<br />
:To add this we would need a static link which does not just redirect the visitor to another link. If you can supply such a link this will be considered. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 02:00, 9 April 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::I changed the link to the download page.<br />
<br />
== Useful resources ==<br />
<br />
I'd like to post some websites that have useful, and *free* resources.<br />
<br />
The first is Planewalker--Spells, Creatures, and Equipment<br />
<br />
<br />
http://www.planewalker.com/snail/travel.php (the spells)<br />
<br />
http://www.planewalker.com/snail/equipment.php (the equipment, the top section is for undefined items and the lower sections have equipment, magical items, and artifacts)<br />
<br />
http://www.planewalker.com/codex/monsters.php (creatures)<br />
<br />
== Naming Error ==<br />
<br />
Basic DnD is reproduced as [http://www.goblinoidgames.com/labyrinthlord.htm Labyrinth Lord], OSRIC is ADnD 1st edition, which are different games.<br />
<br />
== New Campaign World ==<br />
<br />
http://www.zyanyacampaign.com/ - Has a lot of free content, as well as forums and chatrooms for gaming.<br />
<br />
== New Section? ==<br />
Should we add a section of links to Gaming Organizations/Groups, such as RPGA, O.G.R.E.s, Ultimate Gamers, etc? &nbsp;<small><span style="border: 1px solid blue; -moz-border-radius:10px">[[User:Hooper|'''<span style="background-color:White; color:FireBrick; -moz-border-radius-topleft:10px; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:10px"> Hooper </span>''']][[User talk:Hooper|<span style="background-color:red; color:blue; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:10px; -moz-border-radius-topleft:10px">&nbsp;&nbsp;talk&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|<span style="background-color:red; color:blue">&nbsp;&nbsp;contribs&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|<span style="background-color:red; color:blue; -moz-border-radius-bottomright:10px; -moz-border-radius-topright:10px">&nbsp;&nbsp;email&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]]</span></small> 22:14, 16 August 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== Useful Links ==<br />
if we're adding links to this page, my hands down favorite refrence is [http://www.penpaperpixel.org/ Pen Paper Pixel] they have [http://www.penpaperpixel.org/tools/d20spellfilter/ spell filters], [http://www.penpaperpixel.org/tools/d20monsterfilter/ monster filters], [http://www.penpaperpixel.org/tools/d20encountercalculator.htm encounter calculators] (for XP and loot), and of course a lovely dice bag. Not to mention a very helpful, auto-updating [http://www.penpaperpixel.org/downloadspage/ppnpplayercharactersheets.htm PDF character sheet], which everyone in my party uses. --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 07:21, 1 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Eddition ==<br />
<br />
All DnD pages are being moved to their corresponding editions. This paqe needs to be moved to either 3.5e or 4e. --[[User:Vrail|Vrail]] 03:50, 23 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== http://www.dnd-wiki.org ==<br />
<br />
I do not think that [[DnD Links#Dungeons and Dragons Wiki|this link]] deserves a spot on this list. The organizational structure as well as much of the content is under a different license and in all reality one needs to start a court case and get it removed from this violation of law. As such I do not think that it is a a good idea to direct users there. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 11:30, 25 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:According to the bottom page of their wiki, you are free to copy, transmit, adapt, or distribute anything on their site, as long as you attribute it properly. As long as you don't take their content, and then modify and sell it, you're within legal bounds. I see no reason why we should remove a link because you don't like their organizational structure. I am positively disgusted by the Grand OGL wiki, but I don't complain about that site. I've been there, realized I don't like the way they do things, and haven't been back. --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 13:46, 25 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::This is getting a little ridiculous. It's obvious that GD doesn't like the other wiki, and is finding excuses to keep from linking there. If someone would just come out and explain what the big problem is then maybe this would all make sense. [[User:Jazzman831|Jazz]][[User talk:Jazzman831|Man]] 15:41, 25 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::Much of the content is from here. That's where the problem is. It's not whatever [[User:Badger|Badger]] is talking about. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 15:53, 25 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::This wiki used to claim that users could remove *their own* content at any time. When users started to, this wiki outright changed the content rules, and Green Dragon changed the rules, literally claimed ownership over things other people wrote, and now wants to sue people for posting their own classes elsewhere. [[Special:Contributions/24.131.19.27|24.131.19.27]] 16:52, 25 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::Really? This has nothing to do with D&D Wiki policies. It's unlawful. D&D Wiki is not a government/international treaty. The answer to your question lies elswhere&ndash; see pages like Wikipedia's Terms of Use. How do they have reuse things? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 16:53, 25 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::I removed this link as directing users these does not make sense for it is uncertain what they expect of users as they disregard law. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:16, 26 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::I hope you realize that you can be sued for libel for making such anger-motivated false accusations of illegality. And if you tell such lies to police, then you can be charged with making a false police report. Out in the real world, beyond the isolated alternate world that is this wiki, people are sometimes actually held accountable for malicious lies. [[User:Archetyper|Archetyper]] 01:03, 27 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::First, what you have written above here is not understandable English to me. Second, what I ''think'' I understand, you don't want to direct users there because they break the law. You still haven't said what law they broke. Quit saying "they aren't a government/international treaty", actually tell me what they did. --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 20:33, 26 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::I thought I did. Did you end up checking how Wikipedia's Terms of Use work? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:41, 26 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::I just read the ToU, and here's what I have: "For any text you hold the copyright to, by submitting it, you agree to license it under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License". According to the bottom of their page, it says "Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported" which exactly what is required by the rules. Every seems fair and legal to me. --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 20:55, 26 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::::Right. So how are things under the GNU FDL v1.2 suddenly somehow not? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 21:02, 26 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::Actually, this begs a new question. I thought our policy was to use Wikipedia's policy? Why are we using GNU FDL, and not CC-BY-SA like they are? --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 21:39, 26 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::::::Why use rules and policies when they wouldn't? Its a site of brutish users ''(mostly, not all)'' and it had devolved far from D&D wiki's purpose. Plus, it seems to be down more than this site. So why send people there? Remove it. &nbsp;<small><span style="border: 1px solid black; -moz-border-radius:10px">[[User:Hooper|'''<span style="background-color:White; color:Black; -moz-border-radius-topleft:10px; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:10px"> Hooper </span>''']][[User talk:Hooper|<span style="background-color:Black; color:white; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:10px; -moz-border-radius-topleft:10px">&nbsp;&nbsp;talk&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|<span style="background-color:black; color:white">&nbsp;&nbsp;contribs&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|<span style="background-color:black; color:white; -moz-border-radius-bottomright:10px; -moz-border-radius-topright:10px">&nbsp;&nbsp;email&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]]</span></small> 21:50, 26 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::::Hooper, no offense, but what are you going on about? Why use rules and policies when they wouldn't? What policies do we use that they don't? I mean, sure, there are a few things that we do differently, but that doesn't mean they have nothing to add to the Homebrew community. Wikipedia is full of brutish users and downtime, or D&D-wiki.org? Most everyone I've interacted with on either site has seemed quite nice (some are gruff, and some are silly, but the same could be said of this site). I've never seen their servers down, especially compared to the downtime in our past here. They devolved from our purpose here? Are they hosting content for tea parties now, instead of D&D Homebrew? Why would I link people there? I've, on multiple occasions, seen places where users have asked "anyone know how I can get in touch with <User on other Wiki>?". It would be helpful if I could say "Here, try their talk page on <this site>". --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 22:03, 26 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
<br />
{{Discussion Indentation Revert}}<br />
<br />
:''Policies'', not licensing. They are different. I agree&ndash; people should play D&D, but if a site is not adhering to laws then I don't think that directing people there is a good idea. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:09, 26 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::If by "illegal" you mean things like child porn or bootlegs, then sure, we shouldn't post there. But something that we need a team of lawyers to decide whether or not it's breaking the law (and even then, they probably wouldn't all agree)? Probably not that big of a deal. If it's clear we don't endorse it (and it is), then what's the fuss? [[User:Jazzman831|Jazz]][[User talk:Jazzman831|Man]] 08:10, 27 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::According to the official GNU FDL 1.3 FAQ, 'The primary change is the addition of section 11. This new provision allows certain materials released under this license to also be used under the terms of CC-BY-SA 3.0. For more information about exactly what materials can be licensed this way, see the related questions below. As part of this change, we also introduced a new definition in section 1.<br />
<br />
*In order to license an FDL-covered work under CC-BY-SA 3.0, a few conditions must be met:<br />
<br />
1. The work must be available under the terms of FDL 1.3, which provides you with this permission. If the work was released under the terms of “the GNU Free Documentation License, version 1.2 or (at your option) any later version,” then it meets this criteria.<br />
<br />
2. The work must not have any “Cover Texts” or “Invariant Sections.” These are optional features in all versions of the FDL.<br />
<br />
3. If the work was originally published somewhere other than a public wiki, it must have been added to a wiki (or some other kind of web site where the general public could review and edit the materials) before November 1, 2008.<br />
<br />
4. All FDL-covered material added to Wikipedia before November 1, 2008 satisfies these conditions.<br />
<br />
Source: "GFDL v.1.3 FAQ", GNU Project. Free Software Foundation, n.d. Web, 27 May. 2011.<br />
<br />
::As near as I can tell, the other DnD Wiki is legally allowed to have its content under the Creative Commons. - Anon.<br />
<br />
:::Anon, you are actually incorrect, unfortunately. This wiki uses GNU FDL 1.2 and no licenses can just suddenly retroactively patch a previous license.<br />
:::The rest is mostly written to Green Dragon:<br />
:::Green Dragon, you may benefit from reading the following from wikipedia: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authors%27_rights] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_Convention_for_the_Protection_of_Literary_and_Artistic_Works]. Here are a few facts about the legality of this whole ordeal:<br />
:::*Creative works (ie. homebrew in this case) is the property of the author, regardless of what licenses the author decides to release it under.<br />
:::*GNU FDL applies to what people ''other than the author'' can do with the creative work. Actually, this is the case for any license. The author always owns their own creative work.<br />
:::*An author can re-release their own work under multiple licenses.<br />
:::Having established that, it is pretty clear the other wiki is not violating any laws. There is a case where the GNU FDL might take effect and that is the case of where there are multiple creative contributors (note that copyediting does not count!) and one or more the the contributors do not agree to re-release the content under the new license. I can say with a fair bit of certainty that anything that the other wiki has "taken" was created by singular authors (or at least consenting authors). If you can find ''any'' case where this is not true, I am certain that the other wiki would remove the content. From my experience, they are actually far ''more'' proactive than this website with respecting proper licensing laws (for example this website does not follow proper image licensing laws or at least isn't clear about what licensing for an image is).<br />
:::Now, just to make some things perfectly clear, Green Dragon:<br />
:::*You do not own the work of other authors.<br />
:::*You cannot sue for copyright infringement in place of other authors.<br />
:::Okay. Legality aside, let's talk about the root reason behind this. It might be a bit of speculation on my part, but someone mentioned that it seemed that you were almost ready to bury the hatchet and stop this nonsense of "don't talk about the other wiki" (that's why I'm even at this site right now). I'm certainly ready to let the past be the past, but you need to understand that it offends people when you muck around with their creative works. I honestly think that this whole business would never have got out of had if that offense wasn't made. We finally relented that, yes, you can totally not delete our creative work because we did choose to license it under FDL and that you ''might'' have grounds to remove the author box (but at this point nobody really cares anymore). And now this silly business of suing us for relicensing our own creative works?<br />
:::Well, it is a bit offensive, frankly. People don't like being told that they don't own their ideas (note: they do). So here is my point: just drop this whole nonsense about legality. You are just reigniting flames by offending the authors from the other wiki and for no real point. You have no actual legal grounds (unless we have messed up in some corner case with multiple authors, in which case it will be corrected -- just let me know). And, you know, it would be nice of you to actually keep the link here. --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 13:33, 27 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::Wrong. Wikipedia is not plagiarized and see also its Terms of Use. You are making something up to suit your needs, which only a country/international treaty can really do. Also, ask the FSF&ndash; they have given me the same answer multiple times. Continuing to misinform users will result in repercussions. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 15:24, 27 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::Don't {{Warning/Text}} threats of lawsuit against this other wiki go against the general idea of open source and creative commons? --[[Special:Contributions/80.2.187.238|80.2.187.238]] 16:07, 27 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::{{warning|comparedselectedrevisions=http://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk%3ADnD_Links&action=historysubmit&diff=520031&oldid=520024|brokenpolicy=direct rudeness: personal attacks|warningnumber=1|warningbannumber=1|issuedate=Issued on 16:20, 27 May 2011 (MDT)|signature=--[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 16:20, 27 May 2011 (MDT)}}<br />
<br />
::::::No. It's about adhering to the law, normally a precursor to understanding one's contribution is in good hands (democracy equates to laws with reason). And what does this have to do with open source or creative commons? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 16:20, 27 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::"Wrong. Wikipedia is not plagiarized and see also its Terms of Use". --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]]<br />
:::::::I never said that. Please don't strawman.<br />
<br />
:::::::"You are making something up to suit your needs, which only a country/international treaty can really do."<br />
:::::::Really? You actually believe that I'm just making up things to do with authorship laws? This page from wikipedia [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Multi-licensing] explains quite succinctly that every single edit a user makes on a wiki is totally theirs to license. Yes. This means I can take crap I wrote an relicense it freely. That applies to anyone here. If you want some specific excerpts:<br />
::::::*"A number of users have chosen to release their contributions under some other license, or even to release their contributions into the public domain. Dual- or multi-licensing is not required or suggested by Wikipedia, but some users—for a variety of ideological or other reasons—prefer to release their contributions under a wider range of terms."<br />
::::::**Yes -- we get to choose what happens to our stuff even after the first licensing.<br />
::::::*"In general, users make their multi-licensing desires known on their user page by way of a banner or some description of their wishes"<br />
<br />
:::::::"Also, ask the FSF&ndash; they have given me the same answer multiple times."<br />
:::::::What answer have they given and to what?<br />
<br />
:::::::"Continuing to misinform users will result in repercussions."<br />
:::::::I assume a warning/banning? I'm the one who is coming with some actual facts and evidence to back my claims up. Or were you talking about yourself there? --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 17:19, 27 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::Oh yeah. This too [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Free_Documentation_License]:<br />
:::::::*"These exemptions allow a GFDL-based collaborative project with multiple authors to transition to the CC-BY-SA 3.0 license '''(which would normally require the permission of every author)''', if the work satisfies several conditions" (emphasis is mine). --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 17:25, 27 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::"However, individual contributions are not by themselves derivative works because they do not contain any of the original work, as the copyright still remains with the author. It is within one's rights to license those contributions under any terms one prefers, so long as one does it in addition to also being covered under the CC-BY-SA license." &ndash; have you read the GNU FDL v1.2? A single period in a sentence does not mean that is how it is, end of story. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 17:29, 27 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::Green Dragon, did they steal any work you authored? My guess is no. If no one has come to them with a legit claim of "you stole my class 'Forest Avenger'", then I suspect original authors consented to this re-licensing of their works under CC-BY-SA. --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 17:39, 27 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::::Yes, they did. Much of my work, for example, was stolen. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 17:48, 27 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::Considering individual contributions don't count toward "your work", as your above comment clearly indicates, I am genuinely surprised by that. I recall having to move over any of my contributions I wanted on their wiki. Can you give a specific example of a class, feat, or other page that you wrote that is on their wiki? --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 17:55, 27 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::::::[[3.5e Homebrew]] and many spells I worked on, for example. And how does my comment not indicate that also, yes, user contributions are important? And why does this matter? Why is this continuing to be discussed? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:32, 27 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::::Why are we still discussing this? Because, as the page clearly states, we can continue to discuss this. Clearly some people disagree with your ruling. I am under the impression that any content on their site is there under a second license, and therefore not illegal. You've yet to provide any evidence to the contrary. You claim they stole "3.5e Homebrew". What, all of it? That is clearly untrue. Perhaps you mean the page itself? Well, their code is pretty different from ours here, I checked. A bunch of spells you worked on? Again, I notice a distinct lack of names. Furthermore, if they are spells you ''worked on'', rather than ''created'', the original author may have released them under the new license, as I have suggested is likely. This is an important distinction to make, because we are on an MMC. As your citation of the GNU FDL v1.2 clearly states "individual contributions are not by themselves derivative works because they do not contain any of the original work, as the copyright still remains with the author". This means that if I make a spelling correction on a page, I am not considered an author. If you ''worked on'' a page by formatting it a certain way, or making a minor change, you don't get to count yourself as the original author. The original author, whomever they may be, may have released their content under a new license. You'd have no way of knowing, as they aren't required to tell you about it. You've not provided any evidence of them committing a crime, but continue to accuse them of ones. That, my friend, is why we are still discussing this. <br />
<br />
:::::::::::::On another note, if you are going to hand out warnings on this page, may I suggest you give one to Hooper for his direct rudeness to others when he called them "brutish". --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 20:44, 27 May 2011 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::::::::Archtyper's comment is right on, as is Badger's; your allegations are not only offensive but also groundless and unprovoked. You're the one treading on risky legal ground by throwing accusations of stealing information when the original authors were well within their rights as the original creators to take their own works elsewhere under a different license. You should give yourself a warning for a change and stop making completely false and unspecified accusations in an issue where you are displaying a clearly distasteful bias towards the other party. You are only causing more problems for yourself by falsely accusing others of wrongdoings that you cannot present evidence to support. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 21:14, 27 May 2011 (MDT)</div>ThunderGod Cidhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Gender_Bender_(3.5e_Equipment)&diff=517800Talk:Gender Bender (3.5e Equipment)2011-05-09T22:06:11Z<p>ThunderGod Cid: </p>
<hr />
<div>...WTF? This is from Order of the Stick!<br />
<br />
:Lies, it's been around way longer than that (Baldur's Gate is the earliest version I can recall). Even so, why does that matter? It's not a violation of any sort of copyright, since anything from OotS is essentially from D&D anyway. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 16:06, 9 May 2011 (MDT)</div>ThunderGod Cidhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Frost_Knight_(3.5e_Class)&diff=514720Talk:Frost Knight (3.5e Class)2011-04-19T02:41:29Z<p>ThunderGod Cid: /* Questions */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Fire Effect Category? ==<br />
<br />
I don't understand how it happened, but this class is somehow categorized under "Fire Effect". If someone can locate the source and remove it, it would be greatly appreciated. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|ThunderGod Cid]] 14:03, 2 May 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:Got it for you. When linked to a category remember to add a colon after the brackets. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:36, 5 May 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== Rating == <br />
<br />
'''Power - 4/5''' I give this class a 5 out of 5 because it is well balanced throughout low and higher levels. However it may be slightly overpowered in campaigns heavy with arctic or ice themes. --[[User:24.235.40.173|24.235.40.173]] 19:59, 7 August 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
'''Wording - 4/5''' I give this class a 5 out of 5 because it is explained very well with good reference and descriptions. An info is good but incomplete. --[[User:24.235.40.173|24.235.40.173]] 19:59, 7 August 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:Just a tip: an incomplete section (which I admit have have often because I'm too lazy to make NPC's) are normally rated under formatting, not wording. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 21:18, 7 August 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
'''[[Help:Standards and Formatting (DnD Guideline)|Formatting]] - 5/5''' I give this class a 5 out of 5 because it is very well done and easy to read and organized. --[[User:24.235.40.173|24.235.40.173]] 19:59, 7 August 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
'''Flavor - 5/5''' I give this class a 5 out of 5 because while it is a variant of another class it is still unique and imaginative with great roleplay potential. --[[User:24.235.40.173|24.235.40.173]] 19:59, 7 August 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
==Questions==<br />
<br />
You have a strange save set, and so I was wondering if that was a mistake or on purpose. Also, the Frost Knight never actually gets the psychoportation feat or some other prerequisites to abilities. Should we assume that the skills and feats that are received as class abilities bypass prerequisites? Also, what would be the save DC for an ''iceberg''?<br />
<br />
:The strange save set was probably an error of inexperience on my part since it was made so long ago; it was also based off of another class that had a similar save set. In an actual game, I would likely replace them with all good saves or good Fortitude and Reflex, since I now know that saves can't be anything but good or bad, nothing in between.<br />
<br />
:I would assume that they bypass prerequisites as well. Although one could argue it's cheating the system of prerequisities, the fact that the ability is not giving you an open-ended choice (a la rogue bonus feat) means there aren't any crazy loopholes to the extent of my knowledge.<br />
<br />
:Save DC for the iceberg effect is stated to be equal to the frost knight's level plus his Charisma modifer. Like the saves, it's extremely irregular, but it's there. <br />
<br />
:Thanks for the interest; I hope this helped. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 20:41, 18 April 2011 (MDT)</div>ThunderGod Cidhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Mystic_Blade_(3.5e_Class)&diff=511090Mystic Blade (3.5e Class)2011-03-24T22:29:24Z<p>ThunderGod Cid: Undo revision 511048 by 66.38.90.220 (talk) someone is a total dick who vandalizes pages and obviously doesn't know shit</p>
<hr />
<div>{{DnD Base Class Infobox<br />
|img=Magic Sword by JoseLuisAvilaHerrera.jpg<br />
|imgloc=<br />
|imgsize=300px<br />
|imgcaption=<br />
|rating_power=4<br />
|raters_power=1<br />
|rating_wording=5<br />
|raters_wording=1<br />
|rating_formatting=4<br />
|raters_formatting=1<br />
|rating_flavor=4<br />
|raters_flavor=1<br />
|status=Only missing one section<br />
|editing=Post suggestions on discussion<br />
|type= Combat Focused, Moderate Spellcasting<br />
|desc=If you don't want to wait for the spellsword prestige class, the mystic blade offers an alternative combination of sorcery and steel.<br />
}}<br />
<br />
==Mystic Blade==<br />
<br />
A mystic blade is an arcane spellcaster who has simultaneously adopted the way of the warrior. He is capable in combat as well as casting.<br />
<br />
===Making a Mystic Blade===<br />
<br />
The mystic blade is usually a front-line combatant, and his spells supplement him to suit this purpose. While he may have significantly fewer spells than a [[SRD:Sorcerer|sorcerer]] or [[SRD:Wizard|wizard]], a mystic blade is so proficient in their use that he may make more castings per day at a more efficient pace, even while burdened by heavy armor. He also gains the ability to imbue his weapons with magical energy that he siphons from the deepest recesses of his soul.<br />
<br />
'''Abilities:''' As a melee combatant, [[SRD:Strength|Strength]] and [[Constitution]] are both valuable to aid in the mystic blade's survival. Depending upon his preferred armament, [[Dexterity]] could be equally as important. But [[Intelligence]] is perhaps his most pivotal stat because it defines the mystic blade's strengths and limitations as an arcane spellcaster.<br />
<br />
'''Races:''' Humans, with their versatile nature and warlike mindset, make natural mystic blades. Elves, with their links to magic and swordplay, can also reap the maximum benefits of being a mystic blade.. Dwarves tend to spurn the arcane arts, while half-orcs suffer from a low [[Intelligence]] that makes them unlikely to join the class. Gnomes and halflings tend to shy away from militarism, which makes them also unsuitable.<br />
<br />
'''Alignment:''' Any.<br />
<br />
'''Starting Gold:''' 3d10 &times;10 gp (150 gp).<br />
<br />
'''[[SRD:Race Descriptions#Starting Age|Starting Age]]:''' Moderate<br />
<br />
{| class="d20"<br />
|+<br />
<div>{{#anc:Table: The Mystic Blade}}</div><br />
[[SRD:Hit Dice|Hit Die]]: d10<br />
|-<br />
! rowspan="2" | Level<br />
! rowspan="2" | [[BAB|Base<br/>Attack Bonus]]<br />
! colspan="3" | [[SRD:Saving Throw|Saving Throw]]s<br />
! rowspan="2" | Special<br />
! colspan="10" | [[#Spells|Spells per Day]]<br />
|- {{#vardefine:odd|0}}<br />
! [[SRD:Saving Throw#Fortitude|Fort]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Reflex|Ref]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Will|Will]]<br />
! 0 || 1<sup>st</sup> || 2<sup>nd</sup> || 3<sup>rd</sup> || 4<sup>th</sup><br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|1st|| class="left" | +1 || +2 || +0 || +2<br />
| class="left" | [[#Armored Caster|Armored Caster]]<br />
|3||1||—||—||—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|2nd|| class="left" | +2 || +3 || +0 || +3<br />
| class="left" | <br />
|4||1||—||—||—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|3rd|| class="left" | +3 || +3 || +1 || +3<br />
| class="left" | [[#Bonus Feats|Bonus Feat]]<br />
|4||2||—||—||—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|4th|| class="left" | +4 || +4 || +1 || +4<br />
| class="left" | [[#Spontaneous Metamagic|Spontaneous Metamagic]]<br />
|4||3||1||—||—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|5th|| class="left" | +5 || +4 || +1 || +4<br />
| class="left" | [[#Enhance Weapon|Enhance Weapon]] +1<br />
|5||3||1||—||—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|6th|| class="left" | +6/+1 || +5 || +2 || +5<br />
| class="left" | [[#Touch of Steel|Touch of Steel]]<br />
|5||4||2||—||—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|7th|| class="left" | +7/+2 || +5 || +2 || +5<br />
| class="left" | [[#Bonus Feats|Bonus Feat]]<br />
|5||4||3||1||—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|8th|| class="left" | +8/+3 || +6 || +2 || +6<br />
| class="left" | [[#Spontaneous Metamagic|Spontaneous Metamagic]]<br />
|6||5||3||1||—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|9th|| class="left" | +9/+4 || +6 || +3 || +6<br />
| class="left" | <br />
|6||5||4||1||—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|10th||class="left" | +10/+5 || +7 || +3 || +7<br />
| class="left" | [[#Enhance Weapon|Enhance Weapon]] +2<br />
|6||5||4||2||—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|11th||class="left" | +11/+6/+1 || +7 || +3 || +7<br />
| class="left" | [[#Bonus Feats|Bonus Feat]]<br />
|7||5||4||2||—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|12th||class="left" | +12/+7/+2 || +8 || +4 || +8<br />
| class="left" | [[#Channel Spell|Channel Spell]] 3/day, [[#Spontaneous Metamagic|Spontaneous Metamagic]]<br />
|7||5||4||3||1<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|13th||class="left" | +13/+8/+3 || +8 || +4 || +8<br />
| class="left" |<br />
|7||6||4||3||1<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|14th||class="left" | +14/+9/+4 || +9 || +4 || +9<br />
| class="left" | [[#Channel Spell|Channel Spell]] 4/day<br />
|8||6||5||3||1<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|15th||class="left" | +15/+10/+5 || +9 || +5 || +9<br />
| class="left" | [[#Bonus Feats|Bonus Feat]], [[#Enhance Weapon|Enhance Weapon]] +3<br />
|8||6||5||4||1<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|16th||class="left" | +16/+11/+6/+1 || +10 || +5 || +10<br />
| class="left" | [[#Channel Spell|Channel Spell]] 5/day, [[#Spontaneous Metamagic|Spontaneous Metamagic]]<br />
|8||6||5||4||2<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|17th||class="left" | +17/+12/+7/+2 || +10 || +5 || +10<br />
| class="left" | [[#Multiple Channel Spell|Multiple Channel Spell]]<br />
|9||7||6||5||3<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|18th||class="left" | +18/+13/+8/+3 || +11 || +6 || +11<br />
| class="left" | [[#Channel Spell|Channel Spell]] 6/day<br />
|9||8||7||6||4<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|19th||class="left" | +19/+14/+9/+4 || +11 || +6 || +11<br />
| class="left" | [[#Bonus Feats|Bonus Feat]] <br />
|9||9||8||7||5<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|20th||class="left" | +20/+15/+10/+5 || +12 || +6 || +12<br />
| class="left" | [[#Channel Spell|Channel Spell]] 7/day, [[#Enhance Weapon|Enhance Weapon]] +4, [[#Spontaneous Metamagic|Spontaneous Metamagic]]<br />
<br />
|9||9||9||8||6<br />
|-<br />
| colspan="42" class="skill" |<br />
'''Class Skills (4 + [[SRD:Intelligence|Int]] modifier per level, &times;4 at 1st level)'''<br/><br />
[[Climb]] ([[SRD:Strength|Str]]), [[Concentration]] ([[SRD:Constitution|Con]]), [[Disable Device]] ([[SRD:Intelligence|Int]]), [[Gather Information]] ([[SRD:Charisma|Cha]]), [[Heal]] ([[SRD:Wisdom|Wis]]), [[Intimidate]] ([[SRD:Charisma|Cha]]), [[Jump]] ([[SRD:Strength|Str]]), [[Listen]] ([[SRD:Wisdom|Wis]]), [[Search]] ([[SRD:Intelligence|Int]]), [[Spellcraft]] ([[SRD:Intelligence|Int]]), [[Spot]] ([[SRD:Wisdom|Wis]]), [[Swim]] ([[SRD:Strength|Str]]), [[Tumble]] ([[SRD:Dexterity|Dex]]).<br />
|}<br />
<br />
====Class Features====<br />
<br />
All of the following are class features of the Mystic Blade.<br />
<br />
'''Weapon and Armor Proficiency:''' A mystic blade is automatically proficient with simple and martial weapons, all forms of armor, and shields.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Spells}}:''' A mystic blade casts arcane spells, which are drawn from the mystic blade spell list (see below). The mystic blade is extremely specialized in his repertoire of spells, most of which are used for combat support. While he has a smaller pool of less powerful spells to choose from, the mystic blade compensates by being able to use more spells per day than a wizard or sorcerer of the same level. Intelligence determines the mystic blade’s spell DC, bonus spells, and how high level a spell they can cast (In order to cast a particular spell, the mystic blade’s Intelligence score must be at least 10 + the spell’s level).<br />
<br />
A mystic blade prepares and regains spells in the same fashion as a [[SRD:Wizard|wizard]]. Because he possesses a spellbook like a wizard does, the mystic blade may take the [[SRD:Spell Mastery|Spell Mastery]] feat as though he were a wizard.<br />
<br />
0&mdash; ''[[acid splash]]'', ''[[daze]]'', ''[[detect magic]]'', ''[[resistance]]'', ''[[light]]'', ''[[mage hand]]'', ''[[ray of frost]]''<br />
<br />
1st&mdash; ''[[color spray]]'', ''[[enlarge person]]'', ''[[expeditious retreat]]'', ''[[feather fall]]'', ''[[identify]]'', ''[[shield]]'', ''[[magic missile]]'', ''[[magic weapon]]'', ''[[mage armor]]'', ''[[ray of enfeeblement]]'', ''[[shocking grasp]]'', ''[[true strike]]'' <br />
<br />
2nd&mdash; ''[[acid arrow]]'', ''[[bear's endurance]]'', ''[[blur]]'', ''[[bull's strength]]'', ''[[cat's grace]]'', ''[[eagle's splendor]]'', ''[[flaming sphere]]'', ''[[SRD:Fox's Cunning|fox's cunning]]'', ''[[invisibility]]'', ''[[protection from energy]]'', ''[[resist energy]]'', ''[[scorching ray]]'', ''[[shatter]]'', ''[[SRD:Spectral Hand|spectral hand]]'', ''[[SRD:Owl's Wisdom|owl's wisdom]]''<br />
<br />
3rd&mdash; ''[[blink]]'', ''[[displacement]]'', ''[[dispel magic]]'', ''[[fireball]]'', ''[[fly]]'', ''[[haste]]'', ''[[hold person]]'', ''[[lightning bolt]]'', ''[[nondetection]]'', ''[[slow]]'', ''[[water breathing]]'', ''[[wind wall]]'', ''[[vampiric touch]]''<br />
<br />
4th&mdash; ''[[dimension door]]'', ''[[fire shield]]'', ''[[greater invisibility]]'', ''[[lesser globe of invulnerability]]'', ''[[phantasmal killer]]'', ''[[shout]]'', ''[[stoneskin]]'', ''[[wall of fire]]'', ''[[wall of ice]]'' <br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Armored Caster}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' A mystic blade can negate as much as 5% of [[SRD:Armor Qualities#Arcane Spell Failure|arcane spell failure]] chance per mystic blade level (to a maximum of 100% at level 20). In addition, he is so accustomed to casting in armor that [[SRD:Armor Qualities#Armor Check Penalties|armor check penalties]] do not apply to him for the purposes of casting spells with [[SRD:Components (Spell Descriptor)#Somatic|somatic components]] (any other actions that this armor check penalty exists for still apply). In addition, casting arcane spells from any other spellcasting class other than mystic blade incurs spell failure penalties as per the normal rules for that class.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Bonus Feats}}:''' A mystic blade is an extremely multitalented individual, able to take a bonus feat for which he meets the prerequisites at 3rd level and every four levels thereafter.<br />
<br />
'''''{{#anc:Spontaneous Metamagic}}'' ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Spell-Like|Sp]]):''' At 4th level and every four levels afterwards, the mystic blade can choose a [[:Category:Metamagic Feat|metamagic feat]] for which he meets the prerequisites. Each time he chooses a metamagic feat, he gains the ability to apply this feat to a spell once per day without increasing the spell’s level and without any special preparation. This ability does not interfere with the Sudden metamagic feats presented in the ''[[Complete Arcane]]''. This ability can only be used with a metamagic feat that would normally increase the spells level by no more than four spell levels.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Enhance Weapon}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Supernatural|Su]]):''' A mystic blade gains an [[SRD:Magic Weapons|enhancement bonus]] (or an enchantment equivalent to such) equal to his mystic blade level divided by five (starting at +1 at 5th level). This bonus stacks with any other that may be placed on the weapon. This ability applies to melee or projectile-based ranged weapons; a ranged weapon bestows the enchantments on its ammunition, and if the mystic blade is wielding multiple weapons or a [[SRD:Double Weapon|double weapon]] he may distribute to bonuses as he wishes. This ability cannot be used on a [[SRD:Thrown Weapon|thrown weapon]], as the enchantment dissipates when it leaves the mystic blade’s hand. Furthermore, this properties only function when the mystic blade is holding the weapon. The mystic blade may use this ability at will, and changing the enchantment is a [[SRD:Swift Action|swift action]] that can only occur at the beginning of the mystic blade’s turn. <br />
<br />
For example, a 15th level mystic blade fighting a [[SRD:Red Dragon|red dragon]] may further enhance his weapon with a +3 bonus. On the other hand, he could instead imbue it with the ''[[SRD:Bane (Weapon Enhancement)|dragon bane]]'' and ''[[SRD:Frost|frost]]'' enchantments in order to better combat the dragon.<br />
<br />
'''''{{#anc:Touch of Steel}}'' ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Spell-Like|Sp]]):''' At 6th level, the mystic blade gains the ability to channel touch spells through his weapon. Any touch spell the mystic blade can cast can now be channeled through a single melee attack, which is made in place of the melee touch attack as part of the spell if. This attack is rolled as a normal attack roll, not as a melee touch attack. If it hits, however, the attack deals normal weapon damage as well as the effect of the touch spell.<br />
<br />
'''''{{#anc:Channel Spell}}'' ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Spell-Like|Sp]]):''' As he gains arcane power, the mystic blade becomes better able to combine sorcery and steel. At 12th level he can channel any spell he can cast into his melee weapon. Using this ability requires a [[SRD:Move Actions|move action]], and the mystic blade uses up the prepared spell as if he had cast it. The channeled spell affects the next target that the mystic blade successfully attacks with his weapon ([[SRD:Saving Throw|saving throws]] and [[spell resistance]] still apply). Even if the spell normally affects an area or is a ray, it affects only the target. The spell is discharged from the weapon, which can then hold another spell. A mystic blade can channel his spells into only one weapon at a time. Spells channeled into a weapon are lost if not used in 8 hours. The mystic blade can channel up to three spells into his weapon per day at level 12, and he gains an additional daily use at every even-numbered level from then on.<br />
<br />
'''''{{#anc:Multiple Channel Spell}}'' ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Spell-Like|Sp]]):''' A 17th level mystic blade can now channel two spells into his melee weapon using a move action to channel each one. Both channeled spells affect the next target the spellsword successfully attacks with his weapon, in the order the spells were imbued into the weapon. As with ''channel spell'', saving throws and [[spell resistance]] apply normally. Each time a spellsword uses ''multiple channel spell'', he expends two daily uses of his ''channel spell'' ability.<br />
<br />
====Epic Mystic Blade====<br />
<br />
{| class="{{d20}}"<br />
|+ class="epic" |<br />
<div>{{#anc:Table: The Epic Mystic Blade}}</div><br />
Hit Die: d10<br />
|-<br />
! Level !! Special<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 21st || class="left" | <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 22nd || class="left" | [[#Channel Spell|Channel Spell]] 8/day<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 23rd || class="left" | [[#Bonus Feats|Bonus Feat]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 24th || class="left" | [[#Channel Spell|Channel Spell]] 9/day, [[#Spontaneous Metamagic|Spontaneous Metamagic]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 25th || class="left" | [[#Enhance Weapon|Enhance Weapon]] +5<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 26th || class="left" | [[#Bonus Feats|Bonus Feat]], [[#Channel Spell|Channel Spell]] 10/day<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 27th || class="left" | <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 28th || class="left" | [[#Channel Spell|Channel Spell]] 11/day, [[#Spontaneous Metamagic|Spontaneous Metamagic]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 29th || class="left" | [[#Bonus Feats|Bonus Feat]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 30th || class="left" | [[#Channel Spell|Channel Spell]] 12/day, [[#Enhance Weapon|Enhance Weapon]] +6<br />
|-<br />
| colspan="42" class="skill" |<br />
5 + [[SRD:Intelligence|Int]] modifier skill points per level.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
'''[[3.5e Spells|Spells]]:''' The mystic blade’s [[SRD:Caster Level|caster level]] is equal to his [[SRD:Class|class]] level. The mystic blade’s number of spells per day does not increase after 20th level. Each time the mystic blade achieves a new level, he learns one new [[SRD:Spells|spells]] of any [[SRD:Spell Level|spell levels]] that he or she can cast (according to his or her new level).<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Enhance Weapon}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Supernatural|Su]]):''' The epic mystic blade continues to gain the ability to spontaneously enchant a melee weapon. The enhancement bonus that he may bestow upon his weapon(s) continues to increase every five levels.<br />
<br />
'''''{{#anc:Spontaneous Metamagic}}'' ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Spell-Like|Sp]]):''' The epic mystic blade continues to to gain spontaneous metamagic, and can apply spontaneous metamagic to any epic metamagic feats that he possesses.<br />
<br />
'''[[#Bonus Feats|Bonus Feats]]:''' The epic mystic blade gains a bonus [[SRD:Feats|feat]] (selected from the list of epic mystic blade [[SRD:Feats|feats]]) every three levels after 20th.<br />
<br />
''Epic Mystic Blade Bonus Feat List:'' [[SRD:Armor Skin|Armor Skin]], [[SRD:Combat Archery|Combat Archery]], [[SRD:Damage Reduction|Damage Reduction]], [[SRD:Energy Resistance|Energy Resistance]], [[SRD:Enhance Spell|Enhance Spell]], [[SRD:Epic Prowess|Epic Prowess]], [[SRD:Epic Spell Penetration|Epic Spell Penetration]], [[SRD:Epic Spellcasting|Epic Spellcasting]], [[SRD:Epic Toughness|Epic Toughness]], [[SRD:Epic Weapon Focus|Epic Weapon Focus]], [[SRD:Exceptional Deflection|Exceptional Deflection]], [[SRD:Ignore Material Components|Ignore Material Components]], [[SRD:Improved Combat Casting|Improved Combat Casting]], [[SRD:Improved Metamagic|Improved Metamagic]], [[SRD:Improved Spell Capacity|Improved Spell Capacity]], [[SRD:Infinite Deflection|Infinite Deflection]], [[SRD:Maximize Spell|Maximize Spell]], [[SRD:Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting|Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting]], [[SRD:Permanent Emanation|Permanent Emanation]], [[SRD:Reflect Arrows|Reflect Arrows]], [[SRD:Spell Stowaway|Spell Stowaway]], [[SRD:Spell Opportunity|Spell Opportunity]], [[SRD:Spontaneous Spell|Spontaneous Spell]], [[SRD:Superior Initiative|Superior Initiative]], [[SRD:Swarm of Arrows|Swarm of Arrows]], [[SRD:Tenacious Magic|Tenacious Magic]], [[SRD:Two-Weapon Rend|Two-Weapon Rend]].<br />
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====Half-Elf Mystic Blade Starting Package==== <br />
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'''Weapons:''' Longsword, Short Sword<br />
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'''Skill Selection:''' Pick a number of skills equal to 4 + [[Int]] modifier.<br />
<br />
{| class="{{d20}}"<br />
|-<br />
! class="left" | Skill || Ranks || Ability || Armor<br/>Check<br/>Penalty<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| class="left" | Climb || 4 || Str || -3<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| class="left" | Concentration || 4 || Con || &mdash;<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| class="left" | Listen || 4 || Wis || &mdash;<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| class="left" | Spellcraft || 4 || Int || &mdash;<br />
|}<br />
<br />
'''Feat:''' [[SRD:Improved Initiative|Improved Intiiative]]<br />
<br />
'''Gear:''' Studded Leather, Bedroll.<br />
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'''Gold:''' 18 gp.<br />
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====Playing a Mystic Blade====<br />
<br />
'''Religion:''' Many mystic blades make their livings as dogs of war, and as a result their religous beliefs are infinitely variable. Some may go with the flow, others against it. Most might not care enough either way, for the only things that truly matter in their eyes are what they can do and what they can't.<br />
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'''Other Classes:''' Mystic blades get on well with wizards, for they find commonalities in their appreciation of arcane study. They also respect fighters, whose martial skills rival the mystic blades' own. Other classes are generally tolerated, but a particularly savage and unthinking character (a barbarian, for example) might draw the mystic blade's ire.<br />
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'''Combat:''' The mystic blade's greatest strength is his adaptability. While he does not possess the full spellcasting abilities of the sorcerer and wizard (or the sheer power of, say, a ''[[wish]]'' spell), his ability to cast effectively in armor and hold his own in melee allow him to find a niche in a party. His ability to bestow enchantments on his weapon also grants him a great deal of flexibility in combat. <br />
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'''Advancement:''' A mystic blade is already a well-rounded character complete with martial ability and limited but still formidable arcane casting ability. A muliclass to rogu would create a powerful blend of multiple approaches. In keeping with their versatility, a mystic blade can take levels in martial or arcane prestige class, depending on how the player wishes to progress.<br />
<br />
====Mystic Blades in the World====<br />
<br />
{{quote|''My blade… It is my magic, my arm, my tool, and my soul.''|orig=Forrixxion, Elf Mystic Blade}}<br />
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'''Daily Life:''' Mystic Blades do not like to sit around. They will often go exploring, and get themselves in sticky situations.<br />
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'''Notables:''' The first and perhaps most famous mystic blade was known as Forrixxion. His skills were beyond the ken of normal mystic blades, and by his death he had achieved a level of arcane power to rival the greatest of archmages. All mystic blades of any race or background can trace their lineage back to Forrixxion; whether this is mere jest or something more serious has yet to be determined by scholars.<br />
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'''Organizations:''' There is no official organization of mystic blades; they do, however, all share a kinship figuratively and in many cases literally, since all of them claim descendency from the same being. Mystic blades congregate annually at Forrixxion's unmarked gravesite on the anniversary of his passing; to miss this meeting is considered the greatest dishonor to other mystic blades. <br />
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'''NPC Reactions:''' Mystic blades are, in a word, eccentric. Each and every one of them has the uncanny ability to remember his or her exact relationship to Forrixxion, and somehow they all end up being blood brothers regardless of their parentage. Because their allegedly common ancestry has often been mistaken for worship (and because many mystic blades do swear on Forrixxion's name), many regard mystic blades as a cult of fanatical heathens.<br />
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====Mystic Blade Lore====<br />
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Characters with ranks in [[SRD:Knowledge Skill|Knowledge (arcana)]] can research Mystic Blades to learn more about them. When a character makes a skill check, read or paraphrase the following, including information from lower DCs.<br />
<br />
{| class="{{d20}}"<br />
|+ Knowledge (Arcana)<br />
! DC || class="left" | Result<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 5 || class="left" | Mysic blades cast spells, but are also quite capable in melee.<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 10 || class="left" | Mysic blades have a limited pool of spells, but are able to cast many spells per day due to their low expenditure of magical energy.<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 15 || class="left" | Mystic blades can imbue a weapon with bonus properties merely by holding it. As they increase in power, they can completely channel their arcane spells into their weapons.<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 20 || class="left" | All mystic blades claim to be descended from an ancient elf named Forrixxion, said to be the first to combine the powers of sorcery and steel in the way of the mystic blade.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
{{Base Class Wikify|May 2009}}<br />
[[Category:DnD]]<br />
[[Category:3.5e]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Class]]<br />
[[Category:Base Class]]<br />
[[Category:Combat-Focused]]<br />
[[Category:Moderate Spellcasting]]<br />
[[Category:Arcane Spellcasting]]</div>ThunderGod Cidhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Barbarian,_Tome_(3.5e_Class)&diff=510815Talk:Barbarian, Tome (3.5e Class)2011-03-21T17:30:02Z<p>ThunderGod Cid: /* Rating */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Additional Namespace Tag?==<br />
<br />
I don't see a Barbarian (DnD Class) page, so why not put this there instead? I haven't been putting those sorts of tags on any of the other classes. Also, don't forget the in-page links for the class features. [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] 23:05, 12 November 2008 (MST)<br />
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:I think that classes like this are better of being like this: "Barbarian, Races of War (DnD Class)" PS: Still the ID but no bad looking double brackets... --[[User:Sabre070|Sabre070]] 23:33, 12 November 2008 (MST)<br />
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::I'm trying to figure out the in-page links...And, yeah, makes sense. I was hoping that with 3 or 4 variants of classes running around, putting 'Races of War' on this would help clarify it. And you're quite right, the commas are better.[[User:Genowhirl|Genowhirl]] 23:37, 12 November 2008 (MST)<br />
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== Rating == <br />
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'''Power - 1/5''' I give this class a 1 out of 5 because it is a very good idea, however, you completely disregarged any rules on class creation. I personally would make someone take an ECL adjustment to be this class. You gave the Barbarian more powerful abilites and removed his restrictions. You might want to consider looking up the class construction point system, and using that to build the class. --[[User:67.182.193.168|67.182.193.168]] 02:18, 27 December 2008 (MST)<br />
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'''Wording - 3/5''' I give this class a 3 out of 5 because The wording was fine, just one typo with the Base Attack Bonus. You forgot to reduce the third and fouth attacks. --[[User:67.182.193.168|67.182.193.168]] 02:18, 27 December 2008 (MST)<br />
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'''[[Help:Standards and Formatting (DnD Guideline)|Formatting]] - 5/5''' I give this class a 5 out of 5 because the formatting was perfectly fine. --[[User:67.182.193.168|67.182.193.168]] 02:18, 27 December 2008 (MST)<br />
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'''Flavor - 4/5''' I give this class a 4 out of 5 because you did rather well at taking the standard barbarian and giving him a unique flare. --[[User:67.182.193.168|67.182.193.168]] 02:18, 27 December 2008 (MST)<br />
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:Try playing it. This was created on variant rules designed to even things up a little, on the objective evidence that the current rules are uneven. And, in fact, it follows some specific rules--the main one being that if you're level 10, you should be able to win, by some means, against about half the challenges of CR 10, out of a variety of scenarios (small groups, big bruisers, magic-users, big groups, traps, etc.) And the same applies to all other levels, from 1 to 20. Barbarians are classically encouraged to run screaming bloody murder and hit stuff very hard--but when they try it against monsters past level 7 or so, they're the ones who get murderized, unless the Barbarian becomes a one-trick pony hyperfocused in some combat maneuver or another. Therefore, some adjustment needs to be made so they can Rage, stab the enemy in the face, and actually survive. Even the BAB is thought out--on the basis that taking a -10 and -15 penalty to attacks is just a pile of stupid, considering you'll probably only be able to hit on a natural 20. Check out [[Races of War (3.5e Sourcebook)]] for the rationale and further details. -- [[User:Genowhirl|Genowhirl]] 02:32, 27 December 2008 (MST)<br />
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::'''Follow-up:''' I asked around about the CC point system. The answers I got were not that encouraging. As near as I can make out, the point values are arbitrarily assigned according to the value they ''should have'' in the WotC designer's minds, without reference to the what the rules they wrote actually meant, especially in regards re charging and '''trying''' to stab in the face. In other words, this point system is a big pile of randomness and therefore of only accidental use. The only way it could be relevant is if monsters likewise are constructed from a similar point system, scaling by CR. Since that isn't the case, I reject it utterly. -- [[User:Genowhirl|Genowhirl]] 18:30, 27 December 2008 (MST)<br />
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:::Third and fourth Attacks do not reduce Base Attack Bonus. This is meant to take into account gameplay past level 10, where WoTC didn't properly playtest their rules. It's not so much a typo as a re-write of how BaB works. Genowhirl mentions this, but I didn't realize until reading his entries in more detail.<br />
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::::And the real kicker is, I didn't even write this class. This was written by the infamous Frank Trollman and Keith. I just think it's good enough, it deserves to be on the wiki. -- [[User:Genowhirl|Genowhirl]] 09:56, 29 December 2008 (MST)<br />
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==O Mighty Moderators and Administrators==<br />
Wilt thou find in thy heart to lock this page to the current version, which I just reverted it to? Someone did some drastic changes, and seeing as how this class came from an already-complete document and is not actually a work in progress, I'm trying to keep it matching the original document. -- [[User:Genowhirl|Genowhirl]] 09:19, 10 January 2009 (MST)<br />
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== Rating == <br />
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<s>'''Power - 1/5''' I give this class a 1 out of 5 because it's utterly broken. I've read some of the Races of War pages and have seen the author's criticisms of a variety of 3.5e systems, but Rage Dice, Watched by the Totems, Primal Assault, Fast Healing, and especially One with the Beast, combine to make this class incredibly powerful, more powerful I'm certain than other characters of the same class level and probably more than strong enough to go a lot better than 50/50 with CR 19 monsters.</s> --[[User:Jota|Jota]] 09:43, 10 January 2009 (MST)<br />
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::Stricken following the acquisition of further knowledge. -- [[User:Jota|Jota]] 20:24, 5 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:The RoW Barbarian has one trick--making a frontal assault. This is a very poor thing to do, tactically and mechanically. Another F&K design point is, "if you're doing something inherently substandard, you'd better be damn good at it". So they made the Barbarian very, very good at the thing people seem to expect Barbarians to do--make full attacks. Anyway, all but one of the SRD CR 19 monsters are dragons, and, as far as I can tell, all of them have HP ''at least'' in the mid-300's, which means some substantial form of bonus damage is in order to make sure the enemies actually notice that you're hitting them. They also seem to have good Fort saves and outrageous Con scores, so they've got a good chance of passing the fort save versus stunning from Great Blows. They're also big and strong, so they could hypothetically grapple the Barbarian to death. Further on the monster's side, all but the behemoth Girallon can fly, so the Barbarian either needs some means of flight or a good bow--and he doesn't get Rage Dice when he's using a bow. And to cap it all off, Level 19 is "Deputy Mayor of Crazytown". The game doesn't even make sense at this point, because there's effects like Gate which are found on monsters a few CRs lower. If you want an idea of a class's balance for levels people can expect to actually see, try playing the same-game test at levels 5, 7, 10, 13, and 15. -- [[User:Genowhirl|Genowhirl]] 10:12, 10 January 2009 (MST)<br />
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:What about a returning weapon? I'd have to assume a nigh epic character will know his weakness and takes steps to minimize them (even a Barbarian). -- [[User:Jota|Jota]] 13:29, 10 January 2009 (MST)<br />
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::I just noticed the claim that it's more powerful than other characters of the same level. How shall I put this...? The RoW Fighter gets enough tactical tricks that he can shut down a simple, straight-forward attack. The RoW Samurai wins one-on-one combat if he chooses to go nova. Full spellcasters have so many possible tricks and ways to gyp people and monsters, it's not funny (See [[Spells That Fvcking Kill People (DnD Other)]]). The Rogue is, well, the Rogue. This variant of the Barbarian, though, is simple and easy to play. If you notice, the Rage Dice only works with standard and full attacks, and ''maybe'' AoO's granted by BAB. So you can't Whirlwind, and I'm told you can't double your damage with TWF. The Barbarian, rather than neutralizing his enemies with an endless series of tactical conditions, or flat-out splitting them in half, or throwing down a couple of spells which can completely remove an group of enemies from combat, goes right up to one enemy and hits it very hard a few times. I'm sure one can see the problems with this approach. All of the abilities in here are designed to help cope with those problems, and give you a melee fighter who's easy to play and has a decent chance of living through the day. -- [[User:Genowhirl|Genowhirl]] 12:43, 10 January 2009 (MST)<br />
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:::I just think immunity to magic (since that really is what is it) is really too strong. He'll own even a fighter in close range combat and he'll close quick enough that it would be difficult to keep him at a distance. I'll double check the other Races of War classes before I say anymore, but I'll stand by what I said for now. -- [[User:Jota|Jota]] 13:29, 10 January 2009 (MST)<br />
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:::: *Immunity to magic spells that have spell resistance. --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 07:39, 7 May 2009 (MDT)<br />
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:::::And are we talking about the RoW fighter, or the WoTC Fighter?<br />
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== Rating ==<br />
<br />
'''Power - 4/5''' I give this class a 4 out of 5 because, at first glance, this class appears RIDICULOUSLY overpowered, even by Frank & K standards. Though, after giving the class a good once over, most of the things that I had thought would put it far over the top had massive restrictions on them (such as the fast healing), and so that got it increased in my mind. Though, looking at the class as it is, the way the abilities fit together just doesn't rest well in my mind, and so, I have given this class the rating it has. &rarr; [[User:Rithaniel|<span style=color:Gray; -moz-border-radius-topleft:25px; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:20px">Rith</span>]]<sup> [[User talk:Rithaniel|<span style=color:black; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:20px; -moz-border-radius-topleft:20px">(talk)</span>]]</sup> 22:43, 6 May 2009 (MDT)<br />
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'''Wording - 4/5''' I give this class a 4 out of 5 because while all of the class features are easily understood and comprehensive, the strange BAB progression is never explained (I personally know it's from races of war, but others wouldn't, and so would look at it and say, "whuh?"). &rarr; [[User:Rithaniel|<span style=color:Gray; -moz-border-radius-topleft:25px; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:20px">Rith</span>]]<sup> [[User talk:Rithaniel|<span style=color:black; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:20px; -moz-border-radius-topleft:20px">(talk)</span>]]</sup> 22:43, 6 May 2009 (MDT)<br />
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::Basically it is because with the third and fourth attack, hitting anything is nigh impossible. And besides, why do you even get those attacks if you just suck at them? The BAB reworks is designed to make full attacks actually hit stuff. --[[User:T G Geko|T G Geko]] 14:05, 5 June 2009 (MDT)<br />
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'''[[Help:Standards and Formatting (DnD Guideline)|Formatting]] - 3/5''' I give this class a 3 out of 5 because massive portions of the preload are missing, though, interwiki linking is decently comprehensive. &rarr; [[User:Rithaniel|<span style=color:Gray; -moz-border-radius-topleft:25px; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:20px">Rith</span>]]<sup> [[User talk:Rithaniel|<span style=color:black; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:20px; -moz-border-radius-topleft:20px">(talk)</span>]]</sup> 22:43, 6 May 2009 (MDT)<br />
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'''Flavor - 5/5''' I give this class a 5 out of 5 because The primal assualt ability made me smile, it's really a clever idea to thow onto the barabarian. &rarr; [[User:Rithaniel|<span style=color:Gray; -moz-border-radius-topleft:25px; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:20px">Rith</span>]]<sup> [[User talk:Rithaniel|<span style=color:black; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:20px; -moz-border-radius-topleft:20px">(talk)</span>]]</sup> 22:43, 6 May 2009 (MDT)<br />
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:I sorta like One With The Beast, just for the name and implications of it. I aspire to playing a Tome Barbarian to level 19... --[[User:Genowhirl|Genowhirl]] 23:31, 6 May 2009 (MDT)<br />
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::Most of this class I like, but Fast Healing still seems a bit much for me. The notion that you can go right back up to full health in a few rounds or less? Personally, I'd cap how much fast healing would heal at about 50 to 75% of full health, or even better have a "lasting damage" mechanic similar to the one they use in Ninja Gaiden II (XBox 360). That said, I'm sure Frank and K have their reasons. -- [[User:Mythos Specialist|Mythos]] 11:42, 20 June 2009 (MDT)<br />
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:::The reasons are basically twofold. First, they assume out of combat healing is essentially limitless and free. With wands of cure light wounds, being able to rest whenever you want, etc, out of combat healing just doesn't matter. In combat, this provides a good reason not to rage all the time. [[User:Dragon Child|Dragon Child]] 13:59, 20 June 2009 (MDT)<br />
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::::All well and good, but Fast Healing 20 is a bit hard to chew on. Healing 20 HP a round out of combat may not be invincibility, but it comes close. At least without the "lasting damage" mechanic, where half the damage from critical hits can at least creep up on you over time. -- [[User:Mythos Specialist|Mythos]] 19:54, 21 June 2009 (MDT)<br />
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:::::That's at level 20. At level 20, your characters are GODS. At level 20, the wizard and cleric are stronger than superman and Moses combined. And your concern is that the barbarian can... swim through lava a bit better, but still not that well? Recover from his wounds? While his party members are conjuring biblical plagues, forcing archdemons to bend to their will, and so on? Past level 3 or so, out of combat healing is pretty much free and infinite, you'll go into each encounter with full HP. You die from a burst of damage or a save or die effect in one combat, not from being worn down HP wise. [[User:Dragon Child|Dragon Child]] 20:10, 21 June 2009 (MDT)<br />
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<br />
:(Reverting to indentation). Also, the fast healing is basically there to keep the Barbarian alive because his shtick is doing a very unoptimal thing--running up and full-attacking, again and again. Often against monsters bigger and stronger than he is. He'll take a lot of hits, but the Fast Healing sees to it that he's not draining the party's resources too much. Even Wands of CLW can take a chunk out of your money if you keep buying them--and they take a lot of time for a cleric. One of F&K's design principles is that if a class's thing is really subpar compared to other options, it needs some help. You might not agree with that, but that's the reason why the Assassin's Death Attack does better damage than Fireball and why the Barbarian's abilities look so impressive. The Assassin is doing Weapon + (Level + 2)d6 damage to one target, every other round (dice and circumstances willing) because there are effects which can do (Level)d6 to multiple targets, and force the ''targets'' to succeed on a dice roll or take damage. Likewise, the Barbarian gets some very impressive physical abilities BECAUSE he's trying to hit something that's both bigger and stronger and bound to have an opinion about it. If a Barbarian's not taking hits, he's not doing it right. And some of those hits are from creatures with outrageous sizes and strength scores, and would make the cleric eat through a lot of wands or spells in a hurry. So the Barbarian can recover from them on his own if he isn't actually killed. That said, if you want to use the class, feel free to use it with whatever caveats you want. --[[User:Genowhirl|Genowhirl]] 21:48, 21 June 2009 (MDT)<br />
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Fair enough. -- [[User:Mythos Specialist|Mythos]] 15:21, 24 June 2009 (MDT)<br />
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== Saves ==<br />
By level 5 this class is only ever making FORT saves (while raging). Dodge a fireball? Fort save. Resist a charm? Fort save. Does this not seem a little strong to anyone else? Barbarians are almost constantly raging, so isn't this pretty much giving them 2 epic feats by level 5 (Fort equivalents of Dex will and Dex fort)? With the exceptions of traps and surprises, would he ever make any other sort of save? I'm sure there is some detail I'm missing here, can someone tell me what I've overlooked? Or am I just overestimating the power of those abilities?--[[User:Badger|Badger]] 15:05, 7 August 2009 (MDT)<br />
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:They aren't raging in the first round of combat. [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] 16:10, 7 August 2009 (MDT)<br />
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::Until level 19. -- [[User:Jota|Jota]] 18:38, 7 August 2009 (MDT)<br />
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:::Well, yeah, there is that. But that's level 19. [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] 18:46, 7 August 2009 (MDT)<br />
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::::I know. I'm just saying. -- [[User:Jota|Jota]] 18:59, 7 August 2009 (MDT)<br />
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== Rating == <br />
<br />
'''Power - 6/5''' I give this class a 6 out of 5 because I personnaly think it's a bit overpowered... The rage dice are something you can't just put without removing anything... The fast healing is good. And for the higher level powers, it's a bit normal they're pretty strong. --[[Special:Contributions/24.201.232.83|24.201.232.83]] 20:02, 18 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:The Barbarian basically gets everything it needs in-class. It's meant as something simple for a newbie to play--something that doesn't require a lot of system mastery to keep up with, and doesn't have any hidden traps which can kill your character. The Barbarian, optimization means, "Increase your Con score and Fort saves" and "get some extra AC". Everything it has, it has for a reason. Even the Fast Healing is designed so a Barbarian won't die from doing what they do (full-attacking monsters as close as they are, and therefore being subject to some serious pain) while NOT sucking the party's healer dry. --[[User:Genowhirl|Genowhirl]] 21:57, 18 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Rating == <br />
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'''Power - 2/5''' I give this class a 2 out of 5 because There are far too many abilities granted a far too early a stage in the game for this to be a balanced character class. Just looking at what the character receives while raging at level 1 is ridiculous. --[[User:Ewjones|Ewjones]] 18:27, 5 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:I honestly have to disagree on just about all those points. Firstly, if you actually read the Races of War book that this comes from you would know that this barbarian is intended to have as much contribution to a party as a well-played wizard (which is how people are supposed to play wizards instead of just chucking fireballs and lightning bolts). Thus, it is obviously going to look overpowered compared to the SRD Barbarian which, and I don't think I'm putting this too bluntly, sucks major donkey balls. At the very least, it does when compared to the wizard in the same party.<br />
<br />
:Secondly, the differences in rage at 1st level between the SRD Barbarian and this barbarian are not actually all that big, except perhaps for the extended duration and removal of the post-rage fatigue (which I love because I think those things make the SRD Barbarian suck). This gives a +2 bonus to attack and damage, which at 1st level is equal to the +4 bonus to Strength given by the SRD barbarian and might even be inferior since the SRD version can use a two-handed weapon to get the damage bonus from the +4 Strength to be at least +3 at level 1. The +2 to all saves is a little better than the +4 bonus to Will from the SRD Barbarian, but still falls into basically the same category. Same with the penalty to Armor Class. The DR might look powerful, but since it only applies when raging it isn't that much more powerful than the temporary hit points provided by the Constitution bonus from the SRD Barbarian (that is, assuming your Con is reasonable in the first place). After that, Combat Healing doesn't apply when raging, so you're basically in the same boat as the SRD Barbarian except you aren't a once-a-day liability.<br />
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:I'm sure that someone else made a similar argument earlier in this talk page, but I was too lazy to look. In conclusion, it's really not that bad. God forbid that someone made a barbarian that could actually do stuff. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 13:51, 6 July 2010 (UTC) <br />
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'''Wording - 4/5''' I give this class a 4 out of 5 because Too much of the descriptive text is written in the second person, addressing the reader. --[[User:Ewjones|Ewjones]] 18:27, 5 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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'''[[Help:Standards and Formatting (DnD Guideline)|Formatting]] - 4/5''' I give this class a 4 out of 5 because The formatting seems fairly decent, but could be areas of improvement. --[[User:Ewjones|Ewjones]] 18:27, 5 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I more or less agree, I suppose. I don't know if it's just me, but the class feature tables no longer have any frame and I think it looks fugly as hell. It's not exclusive to this page, though, so I wouldn't condemn it for that reason. F&K never did bother with fluff text, either, so it's missing some things right off the bat. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 13:51, 6 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
'''Flavor - 3/5''' I give this class a 3 out of 5 because This class seems to simply be an overpowered version of the barbarian in the 3.5 player's handbook. --[[User:Ewjones|Ewjones]] 18:27, 5 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:See above argument(s). - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 13:51, 6 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I've been a little out of it lately (broke a finger. Boy, howdy, that'll throw your typing off), but I have to say that the Flavor rating here should be nulled. It's not based on any standard of flavor I've seen. Sure, it's Barbarian replacement. But it also goes a lot farther than anything in the PHB to be flavorful. Seriously, look at the ability names. 'Watched by Totems' and 'One with the Beast'. 'Primal Assault' and 'Savagery'. Those are a lot better than "Trap Sense +2" or "Favored Enemy" or "Huge Wild Shape" --[[User:Genowhirl|Genowhirl]] 04:37, 7 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Whoops, forgot to sign the above. But, seriously, if this takes a hit for flavor, every class in the SRD should be scoring straight 1's or 0's for flavor. --[[User:Genowhirl|Genowhirl]] 04:37, 7 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Comment==<br />
<br />
In the framework of Frank Ks Version of D&D most of it seems to be OK.<br />
<br />
But I would recomment two modifications<br />
<br />
1)I would recomment to let the anti magic field just be an anti magic field...<br />
A none-magic user has advantage enought if he fights in it.<br />
And lets remember it is at will..<br />
Blocking every magic on me I dislike not blocking magic I like unlimited is a little bit too much<br />
<br />
2) I would let the healing process require full round actions. Real fast healing after level 10.<br />
Then you still recover fast. But you do need to make a break for some time.<br />
(This is more for flavor than for game mechanics)<br />
<br />
If you think that this class is overpowered..<br />
Please consider two things<br />
<br />
1) This class is not living in the same world than the SDR classes so comparing them is useless.<br />
Because they will never meet...<br />
<br />
2)In melee combat this is very strong.<br />
But there are many ways to keep it from even hurting you at all.<br />
So for all tactical advanced enemies it still needs help<br />
And out of combat the use of this class is even more restricted<br />
<br />
== Rating == <br />
<br />
'''Power - 1/5''' I give this class a 1 out of 5 because it's realy overpowered. Rage. Ok. It's barbarrian, and it's his main ability. Combat movement? Yep, I know, that che classick Barbarian gains +10ft speed, but not +50! With high atack rating and this speed he was a IMBA killing machine. <br />
Watched by Totems - skiil, that ignores the barbarian weackness. Low will - is only thing, what spellcasters may hope.<br />
Great Life - WHAT??? Critical immune? Stuning? Death Effects??? How somebody can kill him? <br />
<br />
Sry for my bad english ^_^<br />
--[[Special:Contributions/195.91.141.250|195.91.141.250]] 02:47, 21 March 2011 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:Simple, someone kills him by dealing more damage than he has hit points. That's not particularly difficult for any character that actually deserves to play in the same game as this class (like a wizard, for example, since that's what it's meant to match). I think you're freaking about over nothing, since the antimagic field is usually considered the most potentially abusive part of this class. You didn't even mention that part. Not to mention the fact having a better Will save prevents from being easily wrecked by those spellcasters (''calm emotions'' is just one spell that does that all too easily). Honestly, the parts you consider overpowered are really not a big deal. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 11:30, 21 March 2011 (MDT)</div>ThunderGod Cidhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Blackstone_Knight_(3.5e_Class)&diff=510676Talk:Blackstone Knight (3.5e Class)2011-03-21T01:04:28Z<p>ThunderGod Cid: /* Rating */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Namespaces==<br />
<br />
Black Knight already existed and I discovered this stub hanging off in space. I moved it to "Blackened" so it existed. It's a stub, very messy. Who is the creator of this page? -- [[User:Eiji|Eiji]] 20:58, 2 October 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== Available for Adoption? ==<br />
<br />
Since no one has claimed this page (as far as I can tell), I was wondering if I could adopt it. At least to fix it up a bit, if not change the direction of the class. -[[User:ThunderGod Cid|ThunderGod Cid]] 18:59, 27 March 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:Yes, please adopt this article! It needs a lot of love, but there is potential. Good Luck T.G. Cid! --[[User:Ganteka|Ganteka]] 14:38, 28 March 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:: Unfortunately, I have no idea how I would go about adopting a page (I believe there's an official process). If anyone could give me directions on how to do so, it would be greatly appreciated. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|ThunderGod Cid]] 18:24, 30 March 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::: Just replace the author template with this:<br />
<br />
:::<nowiki>{{adopted Article</nowiki><br/><br />
:::<nowiki>|adopter_name=<!--User Name--></nowiki><br/><br />
:::<nowiki>|date_adopted=<!--Day Month Year--></nowiki><br/><br />
:::<nowiki>|status=<!--level of completion--></nowiki><br/><br />
:::<nowiki>}}</nowiki><br />
<br />
:::Bam, adopted article. --[[User:Ganteka|Ganteka]] 18:28, 30 March 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::Cool, thanks a lot. I've got a plan, but I'm going to respect the work of the original author and keep most of his ideas. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|ThunderGod Cid]] 20:06, 30 March 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::My god... it's gone from sucky to sexy! I like this! -- [[User:Eiji|Eiji]] 12:07, 23 May 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== Suggestions Plus Help? ==<br />
<br />
I'm at a little bit of a dilemma with this class. I want to keep the original author's ideas (at least the ones that are plausibly balanced for gameplay), but I also wanted to make this class somewhat like a defensive variant of my Hellfire Knight, with the same premise of sacrificing hit points for power. I would like to know what other people think should stay and go (aside from the free ability boosts, which are going to be deleted). I want to keep the concept of increasing size, but only for a short period of time similar to the effects of the ''[[enlarge person]]'' spell.<br />
<br />
Additionally, I was hoping to change the name to "Blackstone Knight" (Blackened Knight doesn't seem the most pleasing name to the ear, so I thought Blackstone might be an improvement that goes along with my new class better). I see that I can change it on this page, but that doesn't seem to affect how it looks on the list of classes. <br />
<br />
Help with either of these issues would be appreciated. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|ThunderGod Cid]] 17:05, 8 May 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:As far as the page name goes, there is the Move tab up at the top of the article, just click it and change the page's name to move it to a new page. Also, you can get rid of the old author template box now that you have the adopted article box on there. --[[User:Ganteka|Ganteka]] 17:18, 8 May 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== Rating == <br />
<br />
'''Power - 3/5''' I give this class a 3 out of 5. To be honest, the fact that almost -all- it's abilities sacrifice HP give this class a poor survival rating. Perhaps if it had a more suitable way to -restore- some of it's lost health on it's own, I would rate it higher, but I would fear for abusing such raw power in this class. --[[User:Avlindrel FallenTree|Avlindrel FallenTree]] 23:08, 16 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:Power of the Body (getting maximum hp for every level) was supposed to make giving up hit points for power somewhat viable. It basically ensures that even though you have yo give up hp, you have lots of it to lose. If that's not enough, perhaps something similar to the paladin's Lay on Hands? If you think that is appropriate, I would likely add it to the hellfire knight as well. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 19:23, 17 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
'''Wording - 4/5''' I give this class a 4 out of 5. I love the wording, and there isn't much to be confused by with the way you type things out. Other than the difficulty with the incorrect class-name in the Starting Package, this -would- earn a 5! --[[User:Avlindrel FallenTree|Avlindrel FallenTree]] 23:08, 16 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
: Didn't even notice that, so thanks for the catch. Fixed.<br />
<br />
'''[[Help:Standards and Formatting (DnD Guideline)|Formatting]] - 4/5''' I give this class a 4 out of 5. The formatting is simplistic, and easy to read without error. You haven't put anything too overt in there, and of course you haven't used the more difficult parts of formatting, but good job! --[[User:Avlindrel FallenTree|Avlindrel FallenTree]] 23:08, 16 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
'''Flavor - 3/5''' I give this class a 3 out of 5. Being honest, the flavor for the class is a little lacking. Perhaps you could elaborate on all the points where you just list the Hellfire Knight as an example? That, in my eyes, would greatly improve the class-page. --[[User:Avlindrel FallenTree|Avlindrel FallenTree]] 23:08, 16 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== Rating == <br />
<br />
'''Power - <<<5>>>/5''' I give this class a <<<5>>> out of 5 because <<<It doesnt need to be improved>>> --{{unsigned|189.98.170.232}}--{{unsigned|189.98.170.232}}<br />
<br />
'''Wording - <<<5>>>/5''' I give this class a <<<5>>> out of 5 because <<<Its fine.>>> --{{unsigned|189.98.170.232}}<br />
<br />
'''[[Help:Standards and Formatting (DnD Guideline)|Formatting]] - <<<Insert Your Rating Here>>>/5''' I give this class a <<<Insert Your Rating Here>>> out of 5 because <<<insert why you gave the rating and how to improve it>>> --{{unsigned|189.98.170.232}}<br />
<br />
'''Flavor - <<<Insert Your Rating Here>>>/5''' I give this class a <<<Insert Your Rating Here>>> out of 5 because <<<insert why you gave the rating and how to improve it>>> --{{unsigned|189.98.170.232}}<br />
<br />
:The above rating is vague and was added by an IP after the IP made several edits to the article. This particular IP has no other history here on the wiki. That being said, I would say that users should keep the possible conflict of interest and single purpose in mind when taking this rating into consideration. &nbsp;<small><span style="border: 1px solid black; -moz-border-radius:10px">[[User:Hooper|'''<span style="background-color:White; color:Black; -moz-border-radius-topleft:10px; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:10px"> Hooper </span>''']][[User talk:Hooper|<span style="background-color:Black; color:white; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:10px; -moz-border-radius-topleft:10px">&nbsp;&nbsp;talk&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|<span style="background-color:black; color:white">&nbsp;&nbsp;contribs&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|<span style="background-color:black; color:white; -moz-border-radius-bottomright:10px; -moz-border-radius-topright:10px">&nbsp;&nbsp;email&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]]</span></small> 23:37, 20 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::The IP's edits have been undone, since they were unauthorized and unwarranted. As such, I feel that this rating should be disregarded entirely on the basis of its context as well as the lack of justification. Since it hasn't been added to the page itself, I don't think that will be a problem. But the record has been cleared. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 16:25, 21 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Rating == <br />
<br />
'''Power - 1/5''' I give this class a 1 out of 5 because Because it becomes disgustingly powerful around level 12 when it gains spell turning as a supernatural ability A LEVEL BEFORE ANY CASTER COULD ACTUALLY CAST IT. Once it has an ability based stat bonus EQUIVALENT TO AN EPIC LEVEL ITEM <br />
<br />
I recommend changing Devil's Mirror to Devil's Shield with the same penalty, and make it spell resistance with a caster level equal to BK level.<br />
<br />
move demonic rush to lvl 5, and changing the bonus upgrade to every 5th level thereafter, leaving them with +8 at lvl20 when he is actually considered epic<br />
<br />
remove demonic growth, plutonic pillar, and the part in harbinger about plutonic abilities. There's just too many class abilities, plutonic pillar makes very little sense and is rather excessive, and demonic growth is very broken, all other abilities considered. between monkey grip, demonic growth, and harbinger, a BK is wielding a gargantuan weapon, at medium size; larger with related enchants.<br />
<br />
HP costs are a good limiting factor, but not when you have more HP than a corpse gatherer. A d12 hit die is plenty. You don't need 10/level the only thing that gets that is a barbarian prestige class that's essentially a damage sponge. That much HP is easy to break, by simply NOT using the HP costing abilities.<br />
<br />
:I think I have to disagree with this premise. First of all, spell turning is not actually that great of a spell despite what the name would implicate. The +8 Strength is also not a terribly big deal given that there are significant dead levels, and such bonuses can be easily acquired via other means (growing in size, for example). Changing it to spell resistance equal to class level would instantly render it almost useless, since any appropriately-challenged caster could overcome it with relative ease.<br />
<br />
:I also think the class has too many dead levels as it is. There's no chance I could be swayed to give more. Dead levels are always bad for any game regardless of balance level; removing stuff is almost inconceivable. I also think you're overstating the power of hit points, given that any properly optimized character can deal hundreds of hit points worth of damage or, if they are a wizard, circumvent hit points altogether. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 19:04, 20 March 2011 (MDT)<br />
<br />
'''Wording - 3/5''' I give this class a 3 out of 5 because everything is coherant, but most of the wording doesn't follow standard wording practices, and because the writer just seemed kind of lazy in certain points, such as putting "same as figher" for starting gold, instead of looking up 6d4 x 10<br />
<br />
:I admit that it was kind of lazy to write "same as fighter" but that's pretty standard practice. In addition, although this was written some time ago, I would like to know which sections violate "standard wording practices". It might not be great writing, but it doesn't seem that bad in my opinion. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 19:03, 20 March 2011 (MDT)<br />
<br />
'''[[Help:Standards and Formatting (DnD Guideline)|Formatting]] - 4/5''' I give this class a 4 out of 5 because the formatting's a little crusty, but otherwise acceptable. Improving the wording would help a great deal. It would be better if the class didn't haphazardly switch between infernal & abyssal terms. If it's Abyssal, use 'demon/demonic', 'abyssal' 'abyss' ect. if the class is Infernal, use 'devil/devilish' 'infernal' 'inferno' 'hell' ect. If it's neither, simply evil, use 'feindish' 'unholy' 'forsaken' ect.<br />
<br />
:It's more fluff than anything that affects the game. It essentially allows you to pick without straightjacketing into one, and to be frank just saying evil time and again gets boring quickly. I also like alliteration, so those other words lend themselves well. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 19:03, 20 March 2011 (MDT)<br />
<br />
'''Flavor - 4/5''' I give this class a 4 out of 5 because the idea is solid, a fiendish tank is a needed idea. I like it, it's just... awkwardly written, and somewhat overpowered (I rolled the numbers, it gets bad. Fast) [WTF does plutonium have to do with demons?]<br />
<br />
:For the record, Plutonic refers to volcanic rock created by crystallized magma, which fits the theme of the class much better than plutonium would. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 19:03, 20 March 2011 (MDT)</div>ThunderGod Cidhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Blackstone_Knight_(3.5e_Class)&diff=510675Talk:Blackstone Knight (3.5e Class)2011-03-21T01:03:32Z<p>ThunderGod Cid: /* Rating */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Namespaces==<br />
<br />
Black Knight already existed and I discovered this stub hanging off in space. I moved it to "Blackened" so it existed. It's a stub, very messy. Who is the creator of this page? -- [[User:Eiji|Eiji]] 20:58, 2 October 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== Available for Adoption? ==<br />
<br />
Since no one has claimed this page (as far as I can tell), I was wondering if I could adopt it. At least to fix it up a bit, if not change the direction of the class. -[[User:ThunderGod Cid|ThunderGod Cid]] 18:59, 27 March 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:Yes, please adopt this article! It needs a lot of love, but there is potential. Good Luck T.G. Cid! --[[User:Ganteka|Ganteka]] 14:38, 28 March 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:: Unfortunately, I have no idea how I would go about adopting a page (I believe there's an official process). If anyone could give me directions on how to do so, it would be greatly appreciated. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|ThunderGod Cid]] 18:24, 30 March 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::: Just replace the author template with this:<br />
<br />
:::<nowiki>{{adopted Article</nowiki><br/><br />
:::<nowiki>|adopter_name=<!--User Name--></nowiki><br/><br />
:::<nowiki>|date_adopted=<!--Day Month Year--></nowiki><br/><br />
:::<nowiki>|status=<!--level of completion--></nowiki><br/><br />
:::<nowiki>}}</nowiki><br />
<br />
:::Bam, adopted article. --[[User:Ganteka|Ganteka]] 18:28, 30 March 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::Cool, thanks a lot. I've got a plan, but I'm going to respect the work of the original author and keep most of his ideas. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|ThunderGod Cid]] 20:06, 30 March 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::My god... it's gone from sucky to sexy! I like this! -- [[User:Eiji|Eiji]] 12:07, 23 May 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== Suggestions Plus Help? ==<br />
<br />
I'm at a little bit of a dilemma with this class. I want to keep the original author's ideas (at least the ones that are plausibly balanced for gameplay), but I also wanted to make this class somewhat like a defensive variant of my Hellfire Knight, with the same premise of sacrificing hit points for power. I would like to know what other people think should stay and go (aside from the free ability boosts, which are going to be deleted). I want to keep the concept of increasing size, but only for a short period of time similar to the effects of the ''[[enlarge person]]'' spell.<br />
<br />
Additionally, I was hoping to change the name to "Blackstone Knight" (Blackened Knight doesn't seem the most pleasing name to the ear, so I thought Blackstone might be an improvement that goes along with my new class better). I see that I can change it on this page, but that doesn't seem to affect how it looks on the list of classes. <br />
<br />
Help with either of these issues would be appreciated. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|ThunderGod Cid]] 17:05, 8 May 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:As far as the page name goes, there is the Move tab up at the top of the article, just click it and change the page's name to move it to a new page. Also, you can get rid of the old author template box now that you have the adopted article box on there. --[[User:Ganteka|Ganteka]] 17:18, 8 May 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== Rating == <br />
<br />
'''Power - 3/5''' I give this class a 3 out of 5. To be honest, the fact that almost -all- it's abilities sacrifice HP give this class a poor survival rating. Perhaps if it had a more suitable way to -restore- some of it's lost health on it's own, I would rate it higher, but I would fear for abusing such raw power in this class. --[[User:Avlindrel FallenTree|Avlindrel FallenTree]] 23:08, 16 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:Power of the Body (getting maximum hp for every level) was supposed to make giving up hit points for power somewhat viable. It basically ensures that even though you have yo give up hp, you have lots of it to lose. If that's not enough, perhaps something similar to the paladin's Lay on Hands? If you think that is appropriate, I would likely add it to the hellfire knight as well. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 19:23, 17 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
'''Wording - 4/5''' I give this class a 4 out of 5. I love the wording, and there isn't much to be confused by with the way you type things out. Other than the difficulty with the incorrect class-name in the Starting Package, this -would- earn a 5! --[[User:Avlindrel FallenTree|Avlindrel FallenTree]] 23:08, 16 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
: Didn't even notice that, so thanks for the catch. Fixed.<br />
<br />
'''[[Help:Standards and Formatting (DnD Guideline)|Formatting]] - 4/5''' I give this class a 4 out of 5. The formatting is simplistic, and easy to read without error. You haven't put anything too overt in there, and of course you haven't used the more difficult parts of formatting, but good job! --[[User:Avlindrel FallenTree|Avlindrel FallenTree]] 23:08, 16 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
'''Flavor - 3/5''' I give this class a 3 out of 5. Being honest, the flavor for the class is a little lacking. Perhaps you could elaborate on all the points where you just list the Hellfire Knight as an example? That, in my eyes, would greatly improve the class-page. --[[User:Avlindrel FallenTree|Avlindrel FallenTree]] 23:08, 16 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== Rating == <br />
<br />
'''Power - <<<5>>>/5''' I give this class a <<<5>>> out of 5 because <<<It doesnt need to be improved>>> --{{unsigned|189.98.170.232}}--{{unsigned|189.98.170.232}}<br />
<br />
'''Wording - <<<5>>>/5''' I give this class a <<<5>>> out of 5 because <<<Its fine.>>> --{{unsigned|189.98.170.232}}<br />
<br />
'''[[Help:Standards and Formatting (DnD Guideline)|Formatting]] - <<<Insert Your Rating Here>>>/5''' I give this class a <<<Insert Your Rating Here>>> out of 5 because <<<insert why you gave the rating and how to improve it>>> --{{unsigned|189.98.170.232}}<br />
<br />
'''Flavor - <<<Insert Your Rating Here>>>/5''' I give this class a <<<Insert Your Rating Here>>> out of 5 because <<<insert why you gave the rating and how to improve it>>> --{{unsigned|189.98.170.232}}<br />
<br />
:The above rating is vague and was added by an IP after the IP made several edits to the article. This particular IP has no other history here on the wiki. That being said, I would say that users should keep the possible conflict of interest and single purpose in mind when taking this rating into consideration. &nbsp;<small><span style="border: 1px solid black; -moz-border-radius:10px">[[User:Hooper|'''<span style="background-color:White; color:Black; -moz-border-radius-topleft:10px; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:10px"> Hooper </span>''']][[User talk:Hooper|<span style="background-color:Black; color:white; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:10px; -moz-border-radius-topleft:10px">&nbsp;&nbsp;talk&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|<span style="background-color:black; color:white">&nbsp;&nbsp;contribs&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|<span style="background-color:black; color:white; -moz-border-radius-bottomright:10px; -moz-border-radius-topright:10px">&nbsp;&nbsp;email&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]]</span></small> 23:37, 20 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::The IP's edits have been undone, since they were unauthorized and unwarranted. As such, I feel that this rating should be disregarded entirely on the basis of its context as well as the lack of justification. Since it hasn't been added to the page itself, I don't think that will be a problem. But the record has been cleared. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 16:25, 21 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Rating == <br />
<br />
'''Power - 1/5''' I give this class a 1 out of 5 because Because it becomes disgustingly powerful around level 12 when it gains spell turning as a supernatural ability A LEVEL BEFORE ANY CASTER COULD ACTUALLY CAST IT. Once it has an ability based stat bonus EQUIVALENT TO AN EPIC LEVEL ITEM <br />
<br />
I recommend changing Devil's Mirror to Devil's Shield with the same penalty, and make it spell resistance with a caster level equal to BK level.<br />
<br />
move demonic rush to lvl 5, and changing the bonus upgrade to every 5th level thereafter, leaving them with +8 at lvl20 when he is actually considered epic<br />
<br />
remove demonic growth, plutonic pillar, and the part in harbinger about plutonic abilities. There's just too many class abilities, plutonic pillar makes very little sense and is rather excessive, and demonic growth is very broken, all other abilities considered. between monkey grip, demonic growth, and harbinger, a BK is wielding a gargantuan weapon, at medium size; larger with related enchants.<br />
<br />
HP costs are a good limiting factor, but not when you have more HP than a corpse gatherer. A d12 hit die is plenty. You don't need 10/level the only thing that gets that is a barbarian prestige class that's essentially a damage sponge. That much HP is easy to break, by simply NOT using the HP costing abilities.<br />
<br />
:I think I have to disagree with this premise. First of all, spell turning is not actually that great of a spell despite what the name would implicate. The +8 Strength is also not a terribly big deal given that there are significant dead levels, and such bonuses can be easily acquired via other means (growing in size, for example). Changing it to spell resistance equal to class level would instantly render it almost useless, since any appropriately-challenged caster could overcome it with relative ease.<br />
<br />
:I also think the class has too many dead levels as it is. There's no chance I could be swayed to give more. Dead levels are always bad for any game regardless of balance level; removing stuff is almost inconceivable. I also think you're overstating the power of hit points, given that any properly optimized character can deal hundreds of hit points worth of damage or, if they are a wizard, circumvent hit points altogether. - 19:03, 20 March 2011 (MDT)<br />
<br />
'''Wording - 3/5''' I give this class a 3 out of 5 because everything is coherant, but most of the wording doesn't follow standard wording practices, and because the writer just seemed kind of lazy in certain points, such as putting "same as figher" for starting gold, instead of looking up 6d4 x 10<br />
<br />
:I admit that it was kind of lazy to write "same as fighter" but that's pretty standard practice. In addition, although this was written some time ago, I would like to know which sections violate "standard wording practices". It might not be great writing, but it doesn't seem that bad in my opinion. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 19:03, 20 March 2011 (MDT)<br />
<br />
'''[[Help:Standards and Formatting (DnD Guideline)|Formatting]] - 4/5''' I give this class a 4 out of 5 because the formatting's a little crusty, but otherwise acceptable. Improving the wording would help a great deal. It would be better if the class didn't haphazardly switch between infernal & abyssal terms. If it's Abyssal, use 'demon/demonic', 'abyssal' 'abyss' ect. if the class is Infernal, use 'devil/devilish' 'infernal' 'inferno' 'hell' ect. If it's neither, simply evil, use 'feindish' 'unholy' 'forsaken' ect.<br />
<br />
:It's more fluff than anything that affects the game. It essentially allows you to pick without straightjacketing into one, and to be frank just saying evil time and again gets boring quickly. I also like alliteration, so those other words lend themselves well. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 19:03, 20 March 2011 (MDT)<br />
<br />
'''Flavor - 4/5''' I give this class a 4 out of 5 because the idea is solid, a fiendish tank is a needed idea. I like it, it's just... awkwardly written, and somewhat overpowered (I rolled the numbers, it gets bad. Fast) [WTF does plutonium have to do with demons?]<br />
<br />
:For the record, Plutonic refers to volcanic rock created by crystallized magma, which fits the theme of the class much better than plutonium would. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 19:03, 20 March 2011 (MDT)</div>ThunderGod Cidhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Chain-Smoking_Badass_(3.5e_Feat)&diff=510001Talk:Chain-Smoking Badass (3.5e Feat)2011-03-13T14:55:26Z<p>ThunderGod Cid: </p>
<hr />
<div>Um hello. I was the one Who edited this earlier (under an IP or whatever they're called) and I do appologize if You didn't like the addition. I suppose I should have run it by the creator first. Thank you for your time.<br />
~ Raem<br />
<br />
:The person who reverted the change is the original author. See, because of the lack of author boxes now, you can't tell that. Not your fault, really, although asking next time would be adviseable. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 08:55, 13 March 2011 (MDT)</div>ThunderGod Cidhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Frost_Knight_(3.5e_Class)&diff=510000Frost Knight (3.5e Class)2011-03-13T14:52:57Z<p>ThunderGod Cid: Undo revision 509986 by 208.107.40.192 (talk) spellcheck tells me I spelled it right</p>
<hr />
<div>{{stub|Missing "in the game" (and example NPC).}}<br />
{{DnD Base Class Infobox<br />
|img=Frost Knight v3.jpg<br />
|imgloc=<br />
|imgsize=320px<br />
|imgcaption=<br />
|rating_power=<br />
|raters_power=<br />
|rating_wording=<br />
|raters_wording=<br />
|rating_formatting=<br />
|raters_formatting=<br />
|rating_flavor=<br />
|raters_flavor=<br />
|status=Just need NPC<br />
|editing=Put suggestions on discussion, please<br />
|type=Combat-Focused<br />
|desc=Just as the [[Flare Knight (3.5e Class)|Flare Knight]] harnesses the power of fire, the Frost Knight embraces the bitter winter cold to combat his enemies. <br />
}}<br />
<br />
==Frost Knight==<br />
<br />
The frost knight is a cold counterpart of the [[Flare Knight (3.5e Class)|flare knight]] (the class created by [[User:Jota|Jota]]). Just as a flare knight utilizes the power of fire to combat his foes, the frost knight taps into the forces of winter and the dangers of ice, creating an environment that saps even the hardiest warriors of their vitality and even the most prepared explorers of their desire to wander the tundra. Distinguishable by their extremely pale complexions and reticent personalities, a frost knight embodies the ice and snow that he controls: bitter, harsh, dangerous and very, very cold. <br />
<br />
===Making a Frost Knight===<br />
<br />
A frost knight ultilizes a variety of cold-based abilities for attack, defense or other uses, for his powers are not only used for combat. Since he is not a [[SRD:Cold Subtype|cold]] creature, he excels against [[SRD:Fire Subtype|fire-type]] creatures, and his resistance to cold allows him to fight other arctic creatures on equal footing. All in all, the frost knight is an extremely balanced fighter possessing a combination of martial and psionic ability.<br />
<br />
'''Abilities:''' As a front-line fighter, [[Strength]] and [[Dexterity]] are as important to a frost knight as they would be any warrior. [[Constitution]] is essential to enduring the strain of his psychic abilities, and a high [[Charisma]] increases the DC’s and number of daily uses of those abilities. <br />
<br />
'''Races:''' Like their flare knight counterparts, many frost knights are [[human]]. Most of these, and the other races who become frost knights, usually hail from arctic regions where ice and snow dominate the landscape.<br />
<br />
'''Alignment:''' Any.<br />
<br />
'''Starting Gold:''' 2d8 ×10 gp (90 gp).<br />
<br />
'''[[SRD:Race Descriptions#Starting Age|Starting Age]]:''' Simple.<br />
<br />
{| class="{{d20}}"<br />
|+<br />
<div>{{#anc:Table: The Frost Knight}}</div><br />
Hit Die: d8<br />
|-<br />
! rowspan="2" | Level<br />
! rowspan="2" | [[BAB|Base<br/>Attack Bonus]]<br />
! colspan="3" | [[SRD:Saving Throw|Saving Throw]]s<br />
! rowspan="2" | Special<br />
|-<br />
! [[SRD:Saving Throw#Fortitude|Fort]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Reflex|Ref]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Will|Will]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|1st|| class="left" | +0 || +1 || +1 || +1<br />
| class="left" | [[#Freezing Point|Freezing Point]], [[#Cryogenesis|Cryogenesis]], [[#Frozen Soul|Frozen Soul 5]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|2nd|| class="left" | +1 || +1 || +1 || +1<br />
| class="left" | [[#Frigidity|Frigidity]], [[#Icewalking|Icewalking]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|3rd|| class="left" | +2 || +2 || +2 || +2<br />
| class="left" | [[#Frozen Soul|Frozen Soul 10]], [[#Verglas|Verglas]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|4th||class="left" | +3 || +2 || +2 || +2<br />
| class="left" | [[#Aurora|Aurora (Zero)]], [[#Flash Freeze|Flash Freeze]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|5th||class="left" | +3 || +3 || +3 || +3<br />
| class="left" | [[#Imbue Weapon|Imbue Weapon]], [[#Freezer Burn|Freezer Burn]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|6th||class="left" | +4 || +3 || +3 || +3<br />
| class="left" | [[#Icicle|Icicle]], [[#Shiver|Shiver]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|7th||class="left" | +5 || +3 || +3 || +3<br />
| class="left" | [[#Frozen Soul|Frozen Soul 20]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|8th||class="left" | +6/+1 || +4 || +4 || +4<br />
| class="left" | [[#Blizzard|Blizzard]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|9th||class="left" | +6/+1 || +4 || +4 || +4<br />
| class="left" | [[#Chill Wind|Chill Wind]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|10th||class="left" | +7/+2 || +5 || +5 || +5<br />
| class="left" | [[#Aurora|Aurora (Sub-Zero)]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|11th||class="left" | +8/+3 || +5 || +5 || +5<br />
| class="left" | [[#Cryoplaning|Cryoplaning +30]], [[#Frozen Soul|Frozen Soul 30]], [[#Rime Armor|Rime Armor +1]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|12th||class="left" | +9/+4 || +6 || +6 || +6<br />
| class="left" | [[#Abominable Snowman|Abominable Snowman]], [[#Frostbite|Frostbite]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|13th||class="left" | +9/+4 || +6 || +6 || +6<br />
| class="left" | [[#Hoarfrost|Hoarfrost]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|14th||class="left" | +10/+5 || +7 || +7 || +7<br />
| class="left" | [[#Cryopreservation|Cryopreservation]], [[#Cryoplaning|Cryoplaning +60]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|15th||class="left" | +11/+6/+1 || +7 || +7 || +7<br />
| class="left" | [[#Razorhail|Razorhail]], [[#Rime Armor|Rime Armor +2]] <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|16th||class="left" | +12/+7/+2 || +7 || +7 || +7<br />
| class="left" | [[#Aurora|Aurora (Absolute Zero)]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|17th||class="left" | +13/+8/+3 || +8 || +8 || +8<br />
| class="left" | [[#Heart of the White Wyrm|Heart of the White Wyrm]], [[#Cryoplaning|Cryoplaning +90]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|18th||class="left" | +13/+8/+3 || +8 || +8 || +8<br />
| class="left" | [[#Fimbulvetr|Fimbulvetr]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|19th||class="left" | +14/+9/+4 || +9 || +9 || +9<br />
| class="left" | [[#Rime Armor|Rime Armor +3]], [[#Ice-Nine|Ice-Nine]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|20th||class="left" | +15/+10/+5 || +9 || +9 || +9<br />
| class="left" | [[#Permafrost|Permafrost]]<br />
|-<br />
| colspan="42" class="skill" |<br />
'''Class Skills (4 + [[SRD:Intelligence|Int]] modifier per level, &times;4 at 1st level)'''<br/><br />
[[Apport (DnD Skill)|Apport]]* ([[Int]]) (2), [[Blink Teleport (DnD Skill)|Blink Teleport]]** (N/A) (8), [[Cryokinesis (DnD Skill)|Cryokinesis]] ([[Int]]) (1), [[Psychic Powers (DnD Knowledge Skill Use)|Knowledge: Psychic]] ([[Int]]), [[Life Extension (DnD Skill)|Life Extension]]*** ([[Wis]]) (14), [[Psychic Weapon (DnD Skill)|Psychic Weapon]]**** ([[Wis]]) (1), [[Ride]] ([[Dex]])<br />
|}<br />
<br />
Any skill with one or more asterisks is not gained (and therefore points cannot be invested in it) until the level listed after the skill in parentheses. <br><br />
<br />
<nowiki>*</nowiki>A frost knight does not teleport arrows away from himself. Projectiles deflected by this skill freeze in midair and fall harmlessly to the ground before they ever reach the frost knight. <br />
<br />
<nowiki>**</nowiki>When the frost knight does a blink teleport, he blinks into and out of reality in a cloud of swirling snow. <br />
<br />
<nowiki>***</nowiki> Due to the Cryopreservation class feature, a frost knight may take 5 on Life Extension checks even though the skill would normally prevent him from doing so.<br />
<br />
<nowiki>****</nowiki>A psychic weapon created by a frost knight is composed for cold and does cold damage.<br />
<br />
====Class Features====<br />
<br />
All of the following are class features of the frost knight.<br />
<br />
'''Weapon and Armor Proficiency:''' A frost knight is automatically proficient with all simple and martial weapons, light and medium armor and full plate, and all shields except for tower shields.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Freezing Point}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' The frost knight gains the Psychic Ability feat.<br />
<br />
'''''{{#anc:Cryogenesis}}'' ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Psi-Like|Ps]]):''' A frost knight can create and launch a shard of ice in his hand as a free action. This acts just as an ''ice knife'' spell (p. 112, ''[[Complete Arcane]]'') cast by a wu jen of the frost knight’s level. <br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Frozen Soul}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' A frost knight has cold resistance 5. This improves to 10 at level 3, 20 at level 7 and 30 at level 11. This feature is superseded by the Cryopreservation class feature.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Frigidity}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' At 2nd level, the frost knight acquires the [[Psychokinesis]] and [[Apport Arrows (DnD Feat)|Apport Arrows]] feats.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Icewalking}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' The frost knight may traverse icy surfaces at 2nd level as if he had the ''[[spider climb]]'' spell cast on him. This effect is permanent, but only applies to an icy surface.<br />
<br />
'''''{{#anc:Verglas}}'' ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Psi-Like|Ps]]):''' A number of times per day equal to his [[Charisma]] modifier, a frost knight of 3rd level or higher can make a layer of ice over the ground which functions as a ''[[grease]]'' spell, except that the range of this effect is 10 feet per frost knight level. Due to his Icewalking ability, the frost knight is immune to this effect. If the frost knight tries to walk on water, the surface of water will automatically freeze to accommodate his weight and that of his equipment without expending a use of Verglas.<br />
The frost knight’s armor is always treated as under a grease effect, giving him a +10 circumstance bonus on [[Escape Artist]] checks on a checks made to escape a [[SRD:Grapple|grapple]].<br />
<br />
'''''{{#anc:Aurora}}'' ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Psi-Like|Ps]]):''' As a swift action a frost knight may surround himself with a violet/blue aura, which lasts for a number of rounds equal to his frost knight level plus his [[Charisma]] modifier, multiplied by two. The frost knight may choose to use all the rounds at once or distribute them over a number of uses. At the end of each round, the frost knight must determine whether he will continue to use his aurora for the next round. If the aurora is activated during an opponent’s action, the frost knight must still use up a round and decide whether to continue using it. The save DC for any effects caused by an aurora is equal to the frost knight’s level plus his enhanced [[Charisma]] modifier.<br />
<br />
''{{#anc:Zero}}:'' The frost knight’s aurora functions as a ''[[light]]'' spell as cast by a wizard of his level, adds 2 to his [[Charisma]] score, fatigues all enemies in the radius for as long as the aurora is active, and incurs a -5 penalty on [[Hide]] checks. <br />
<br />
''{{#anc:Sub-Zero}}:'' At the second stage, the aurora acts as a ''[[daylight]]'' spell at the frost knight’s caster level, adds +4 to his [[Charisma]], grants him the effect of a ''[[fire shield]]: blue'' spell, fatigues all enemies in the radius just like the Zero aurora, and incurs a -10 penalty on [[Hide]] checks.<br />
<br />
''{{#anc:Absolute Zero}}:'' The third level of the aurora unleashes a wave of cold in an 80-ft. radius centered on the frost knight the first time it is activated in any encounter, dealing 15d6 points of cold damage (Fortitude save for half). After that, it functions as a daylight spell at the frost knight’s caster level, adds 6 to the frost knight’s [[Charisma]] score, creates ''[[fire shield]]: blue'' and ''[[SRD:Energy Retort|energy retort]]'' (cold only) effects, and creates the same [[fatigue]] effect as the other two stages and incurs a -20 circumstance penalty on [[Hide]] checks.<br />
[Note: Any of the [[fatigue]] effects can be negated by a [[Fortitude]] save, and any creature immune to fatigue (an undead, for example) is unaffected.]<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Flash Freeze}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' At 4th level, a frost knight gains the ability to affect the temperature of the air surrounding him. This functions as an endure elements (heat or cold only) spell within a 20' radius as the frost knight either exudes heat from his body or draws it out of the air.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Imbue Weapon}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' The frost knight gains [[Imbue Weapon (DnD Feat)|Imbue Weapon]] as a bonus feat at 5th level.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Freezer Burn}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' A foe slain by a frost knight is frozen and treated as under the effect of a gentle repose spell (caster level equal to frost knight level). This is not a magical effect and therefore cannot be dispelled. The dead character is bitterly cold to the touch, however, and anyone touching them takes 1 point of cold damage per round of exposure.<br />
<br />
'''''{{#anc:Icicle}}'' ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Psi-Like|Ps]]):''' When wielding a weapon composed entirely of metal a frost knight can forcibly cool it, causing it to harden and condense, creating a layer of sharpened ice over the surface. The weapon is still considered to be its original size in terms of its weight and the frost knight's ability to wield it, but it deals damage as if it was one size larger and also deals 2d4 points of cold damage with each hit. Additionally, the weapon causes the armor of a struck opponent to tighten constrictively; this reduces the [[Dexterity]] bonus it offers by 2 and increases the [[armor check penalty]] by 2 for 1d4 rounds. This ability is not cumulative (there is no stacking of bonuses or penalties to the opponent’s armor).<br />
<br />
'''''{{#anc:Shiver}}'' ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Psi-Like|Ps]]):''' At 6th level, a frost knight’s body constantly reduces the temperature around him in a 20 ft. radius, allowing him to lower the temperature by 2 degrees Fahrenheit per frost knight level.<br />
<br />
'''''{{#anc:Blizzard}}'' ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Psi-Like|Ps]]):''' A frost knight gains the [[Psychoportation (DnD Feat)|Psychoportation]] feat. The frost knight also gains the [[Blink Teleport (DnD Skill)|blink teleport]] skill. When the flare knight uses this ability he disappears and reappears in a gust of swirling snow. This effect is purely cosmetic and has no effect on the nature of this skill.<br />
<br />
'''''{{#anc:Chill Wind}}'' ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Psi-Like|Ps]]):''' When targeted with or in the area of any effect that deals [[:Category:Fire Effect|fire]] damage, a frost knight may make an attempt to cancel that effect. The frost knight and his opponent make opposing rolls. If the frost knight's roll is higher, the fire effect in negated as it is immediately extinguished. The frost knight's roll is d20 + frost knight level + [[Charisma]] modifier. The entity responsible for the fire effect's check is d20 + Caster level/HD total + relevant ability score modifier.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Cryoplaning}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' A frost knight becomes better able to move over ice or snow at 11th level. When he is moving over ice, including that of his verglas ability, the frost knight’s [[SRD:Movement Speed|base speed]] increases by 30 feet. This bonus increases to 60 feet at 14th level and 90 feet at 17th level. He also takes no movement or skill penalties for moving through a snowstorm (see p.87, ''[[Dungeon Master's Guide]]'').<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Rime Armor}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' A frost knight is covered by an almost imperceptible layer of hardened ice. By 11th level, this ice grants him a +1 bonus to [[natural armor]]. This bonus increases to +2 at 15th level and finally +3 at 19th level.<br />
<br />
'''''{{#anc:Abominable Snowman}}'' ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Psi-Like|Ps]]):''' At 12th level, when he would be reduced to 0 hp, the frost knight instead has a chance to be discorporated. This functions as the ''[[SRD:Fiery Discorporation|fiery discorporation]]'' power, except that the frost knight separates into a cloud of snowflakes and reappears over a 5x5 or larger body of water which automatically freezes upon his arrival.<br />
<br />
'''''{{#anc:Frostbite}}'' ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Psi-Like|Ps]]):''' A number of times per day equal to his Charisma modifier (minimum 1), a frost knight of 12th level or higher can unleash a white cone of icy vapor that deals 1d6 damage per frost knight level (maximum 20d6). The range of the cone is 5 feet long and wide per frost knight level, up to 100 feet for both. Any creature with the [[SRD:Aquatic Subtype|aquatic]] subtype instead takes 1d8 damage per level (max 20d8) instead of 1d6.The damage dealt by this ability is cold damage and anyone slain by it splinters into millions of tiny ice shards, preventing them from being brought back to life by a ''[[raise dead]]'' spell or another spell that requires remains. Their equipment is also destroyed; magical items may have a Fortitude save, but all others are automatically frozen solid and come apart as well.<br />
<br />
'''''{{#anc:Hoarfrost}}'' ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Psi-Like|Ps]]):''' A number of times per day equal to his [[Charisma]] modifier (minimum 1), a 13th level frost knight can create a snowstorm that coats all enemies within a range of 10 feet per frost knight level in a thin layer of rime. While this ice does no harm, the storm functions as a ''[[slow]]'' spell, with all enemies in the storm being affected. <br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Cryopreservation}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' The frost knight’s cold resistance is replaced by cold immunity at 14th level. He now takes no damage or other ill effects from natural or magical cold. Additionally, he gains the [[Psychometabolism]] feat and can choose to take 5 on [[Life Extension (DnD Skill)|Life Extension]] checks because the ice coating the frost knight’s body naturally slows his aging process.<br />
<br />
'''''{{#anc:Razorhail}}'' ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Psi-Like|Ps]]):''' By cooling and solidifying the moisture in the air around him, the frost knight can create thin, razor-sharp sheets of ice that form a cloud of flying shards around him. This functions as the ''[[blade barrier]]'' spell with a caster level equal to the frost knight’s level, and can be used a number of times per day equal to his Charisma modifier (minimum of 1).<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Heart of the White Wyrm}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' Starting at 17th level, a frost knight gains [[fast healing]] 3 in freezing weather (at or under 32ºF/0ºC) or any situation where a character without cold resistance would take cold damage. This does not include instantaneous effects like ''[[cone of cold]]'', but does include ''[[ice storm]]'' and similar effects.<br />
<br />
'''''{{#anc:Fimbulvetr}}'' ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Psi-Like|Ps]]):''' Once per day, the frost knight of 18th level or higher can recreate the effect of an ''iceberg'' spell (p. 101, ''[[Frostburn]]''), summoning a massive block of ice and dropping it from the sky. This ice shatters upon contact with a solid surface, splitting into elephant-sized chunks that deal damage based on how far away from the point of origin the creature is. The save DC for this spell is equal to the frost knight’s level plus his [[Charisma]] modifier.<br />
<br />
''Within 20 feet of the Center Point:'' Any creature or object directly under the iceberg takes 20d6 points of crushing damage (no save) and is buried in snow.<br />
<br />
''Between 20 and 40 feet from the Center Point:'' Creatures or objects in the middle section of the area also take 20d6 points of crushing damage, but are allowed a Reflex save for half damage. They are also buried in snow regardless of the outcome of the save.<br />
<br />
''Between 40 and 60 feet from the Center Point:'' Creatures in the outermost section may be struck by flying debris for 10d6 points of damage. They are entitled to a Reflex save for half damage and are not buried in snow.<br />
<br />
A creature buried in snow can free itself with a DC 25 [[Strength]] check, or can be dug out by other creatures. In 1 minute, using only its hands, a creature can clear ice and debris equal to five times its heavy load limit. The amount of tightly packed snow that fills a 5-foot-by-5-foot area weighs 500 pounds. Armed with an appropriate tool, such as a pick, crowbar, or shovel, a digger can clear loose rubble and debris twice as quickly as by hand. The snow extinguishes all flames, normal or magical, that it touches.<br />
<br />
'''''{{#anc:Ice-Nine}}'' ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Psi-Like|Ps]]):''' At 19th level, the frost knight’s verglas ability permanently affects his space, creating an icy surface wherever he walks without a use of verglas (if he wants to affect an area, he must still expend a use of verglas). This makes the ''[[spider climb]]'' effect and movement bonus given by his icewalking and cryoplaning abilities permanent. The ice created by the frost knight’s step does not last long after he leaves, sublimating after 1 round.<br />
The ice created in this manner always forms a smooth surface no matter what terrain the frost knight is on, allowing him to move unimpeded over any terrain. He still suffers the normal movement penalties for going upwards. Because the ice turns quickly into a gas and not a liquid, the frost knight also cannot be tracked as if he is permanently under a ''[[pass without trace]]'' effect.<br />
<br />
'''''{{#anc:Permafrost}}'' ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Psi-Like|Ps]]):''' At 20th level, the frost knight can now use his aurora without limit.<br />
<br />
====Ex-Frost Knights====<br />
<br />
A frost knight can never renege on his decision to become a frost knight. The forces of winter are in his blood, and he realizes this. Like most elemental knights he will not resist that which is in his nature.<br />
<br />
====Epic Frost Knights====<br />
<br />
{| class="{{d20}}"<br />
|+ class="epic" |<br />
<div>{{#anc:Table: The Epic Frost Knight}}</div><br />
<br />
|-<br />
! Level !! Special<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 21st || class="left" | <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 22nd || class="left" | <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 23rd || class="left" | [[#Rime Armor|Rime Armor]] +4, [[#Bonus Feats|Bonus Feat]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 24th || class="left" | <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 25th || class="left" | <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 26th || class="left" | [[#Bonus Feats|Bonus Feat]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 27th || class="left" | [[#Rime Armor|Rime Armor]] +5<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 28th || class="left" | <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 29th || class="left" | [[#Bonus Feats|Bonus Feat]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 30th || class="left" | <br />
|-<br />
| colspan="42" class="skill" |<br />
4 + [[SRD:Intelligence|Int]] modifier skill points per level.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
'''Rime Armor:''' The [[natural armor]] bonus afforded to the frost knight by his rime armor continus to increase, up to +5.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc: Bonus Feats }}:''' The epic frost knight gains a bonus feat (selected from the list of epic frost knight bonus feats) every 3 levels after 20th.<br />
<br />
''Epic Frost Knight Bonus Feat List:'' [[Armor Skin]], [[Curse of Cocytus (DnD Epic Feat)|Curse of Cocytus]], [[Epic Prowess]], [[Epic Toughness]], [[Epic Weapon Focus]], [[Epic Weapon Specialization]], [[SRD:Extended Life Span|Extended Life Span]], [[SRD:Superior Initiative|Superior Initiative]].<br />
<br />
====Human Frost Knight Starting Package====<br />
<br />
'''Weapons:''' Longsword.<br />
<br />
'''Skill Selection:'''<br />
<br />
{| class="{{d20}}"<br />
|-<br />
! class="left" | Skill || Ranks || Ability || Armor<br/>Check<br/>Penalty<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| class="left" | Cryokenesis || 4 || [[Int]] || &mdash;<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| class="left" | Listen || 2 || [[Wis]] || &mdash;<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| class="left" | Spot || 2 || [[Wis]] || &mdash;<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| class="left" | Knowledge (Psychic) || 2 || [[Int]] || &mdash;<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| class="left" | Psychic Weapon || 4 || [[Wis]] || &mdash;<br />
|}<br />
<br />
'''Feat:''' Improved Initiative.<br />
<br />
'''Bonus Feats:''' [[Weapon Focus]] ([[longsword]]).<br />
<br />
'''Gear:''' Waterskin, bedroll, winter clothing.<br />
<br />
'''Gold:''' Same as [[Flare Knight (3.5e Class)|Flare Knight]].<br />
<br />
===Campaign Information===<br />
<br />
====Playing a Frost Knight====<br />
<br />
'''Religion:''' Frost knights are generally apathetic as far as religion is concerned; in their harsh existence, faith is needed in no one but themselves. Those that do worship a deity favors those of cold or winter, and often share the same deity as the frost giants in the appropriate campaign setting. Even these frost knights are rarely devout fanatics; besides an occaisonal oath or prayer to acknowledge their god's existence they will not actively partake in religious service. Thus, the frost knight's alignment rarely reflects that of his deity.<br />
Even when not religious, a frost knight is usually superstitious, believing in the omnipotence of the cold and its ability to communicate with them. A frost knight will interpret many arctic phenomena as omens for good or ill (see Frostburn for examples of unique winter weather).<br />
<br />
'''Other Classes:''' Frost knights are loners to their ice cold core, but they are not so foolish to believe that there are no advantages to traveling in a group. While they will respect or aty least tolerate most other classes for their varied abilities, they have little patience for those who cannot withstand the winter cold. Frost knights are also most unsympathetic, reacting with indifference towards the plights of others, for in the tundra the winter consumes those who cannot defend themselves.<br />
Frost knights regard flare knights with a deep sense of resentment, since they see the fire-wielding elemental knights as anathema to themselves.<br />
<br />
'''Combat:''' A frost knight is an ideal forward combatant. While not as outwardly strong or hardy as a fighter or barbarian, he possesses a range of abilities capable of quickly debilitating numerous opponents. Because the winter cold affects most differently from him, the frost knight is often quick to bring his cold-based abilities to bear by drastically lowering the temperature around him. <br />
<br />
'''Advancement:''' A frost knight highly favors the prestige classes from the book ''[[Frostburn]]'', as they often already take advantage of his numerous cold-based abilities.<br />
<br />
====Frost Knights in the World====<br />
<br />
{{quote|''Mortals fear the cold far more than the heat.''|orig=Zlatan Thraeingr , human frost knight}}<br />
<br />
The products of an unforgiving environment, frost knights generally reflect the winter tundra that they usually hail form. Bitter, taciturn, and ruthless, they avoid contact with other beings. While brutal if provoked, a frost knight is rarely malicious enough to attack those who have shown no hostile intent.<br />
<br />
'''Daily Life:''' The existence of the frost knight is often long and lonely. Many high-level frost knights are nigh-immortal, preserved by the ice that covers their entire bodies. While some lower level knights who have not fully adapted to cold weather may stay closer to settlements, the aforementional higher level frost knights live in solitary hermitage. If they need to deal with some other being, they are generally careless as far as alignment is concerned. Many such frost knights deal with the local frost giants, who respect their power enough to give them a wide berth. <br />
<br />
'''Notables:''' Zlatan Thraeingr (level 21 human FrK) resides in a cave formed from solid ice that he took from an ancient [[SRD:White Dragon|white dragon]] in a duel that shook the tundra. The cave rests an a glacier overlooking the only supply pass in the area. Zlatan guards this pass zealously, defending any who pass through from the arctic predators that frequent the area. No one knows why he does this, but all those who live nearby don't dare venture up to the cave to ask him. <br />
<br />
'''Organizations:''' Being the loners that they are, frost knights rarely congregate together. There is no formal organization of frost knights, but they will work with other frost knights and even, however reluctantly, with other kinds of elemental knights.<br />
<br />
'''NPC Reactions:''' Frost knights are often clouded by a reputation of myths that claim they are disguised ice demons, giving them a bad reputation among less well-informed residents. Most NPC's will react to a frost knight's presence with a mixture of fear and awe as well as an involuntary shiver. Those who do not know of frost knights may actually mistake one for an [[undead]]. Their pale skin, incredibly slowed heartbeat (around eight times per minute), and bitterly cold body temperature all serve as false indicators of undead nature.<br />
<br />
====Frost Knight Lore====<br />
<br />
Characters with ranks in [[Knowledge]] (geography) can research frost knights to learn more about them. When a character makes a skill check, read or paraphrase the following, including information from lower DCs.<br />
<br />
{| class="{{d20}}"<br />
|+ [[Knowledge]] (geography) <br />
! DC || class="left" | Result<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 5 || class="left" | Frost knights wield the terrible powers of winter.<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 10 || class="left" | Psionic warriors, frost knights manifest their powers as the bone-chilling cold that gives their abilities form.<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 15 || class="left" | A frost knight can cover the area around him with ice, hindering the movement of others while increasing the fluidiity of his own.<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 20 || class="left" | The bodies of powerful frost knights are coated in a layer of ice that preserves their flesh, preventing them from aging or even dying of other natural causes.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
====Frost Knights in the Game====<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<-How characters of this class fit in the game (PC and NPC) and what roles they play.-><br />
<br />
'''Adaptation:''' <-Possible variant conceptions of this class.->.<br />
<br />
'''Sample Encounter:''' <-DM placement for NPCs of this class.->.<br />
<br />
''EL whatever:'' <-Encounter scenario and character info on sample NPC including stat block. The CR of the NPC is typically the same as the EL for the encounter.->.<br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
{{DnD Base Classes Breadcrumb}}<br />
[[Category:DnD]]<br />
[[Category:3.5e]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Class]]<br />
[[Category:Base Class]]<br />
[[Category:Combat-Focused]]</div>ThunderGod Cidhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=User:ThunderGod_Cid&diff=509232User:ThunderGod Cid2011-03-06T18:21:53Z<p>ThunderGod Cid: /* In The Works */ most of these weren't good ideas anyway</p>
<hr />
<div>Hey everyone, this is TG Cid. I'm not really active on this Wiki anymore, but I hope you enjoy my work anyway. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 21:44, 9 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
{{Barnstar|I give you this barnstar for adding a description to many base classes and PrC, thank you you were very helpful!--[[User:Lord Dhazriel|Lord Dhazriel]] 19:12, 14 June 2009 (MDT)}}<br />
<br />
===[[User:ThunderGod Cid/Jota & Cid|Jota & Cid]]===<br />
<br />
'''Base Classes'''<br />
<br />
[[Medium (3.5e Class)|Medium]]: A spiritual medium capable of communicating with the dead and channeling their emotions.<br />
<br />
'''Prestige Classes'''<br />
<br />
[[Battōsai (3.5e Prestige Class)|Battōsai]]: An evolution of the tenken or a similar fighter that creates a single devastating attack by drawing the blade from its sheath.<br />
<br />
===My Contributions===<br />
<br />
'''Base Classes:'''<br />
<br />
[[Jigyousho (3.5e Class)|Jigyousho]]: Controller and user of plants<br />
<br />
[[Frost Knight (3.5e Class)|Frost Knight]]: Cold variant of [[User:Jota|Jota's]] [[Flare Knight (3.5e Class)|Flare Knight]] class.<br />
<br />
[[Hellfire Knight (3.5e Class)|Hellfire Knight]]: A warrior who channels the power of the Lower Planes and manifests it as hellfire.<br />
<br />
[[Blackstone Knight (3.5e Class)|Blackstone Knight]]: Adopted, a defensive variant of the Hellfire Knight.<br />
<br />
[[Empusar (3.5e Class)|Empusar]]: A mortal (at least at first) kind of succubus/demon with a variety of different powers<br />
<br />
[[Ochremancer (3.5e Class)|Ochremancer]]: Transforms into an ooze (inspired by Eiji's [[Oozebound (3.5e Prestige Class)|Oozebound]] prestige class)<br />
<br />
[[Tenken (3.5e Class)|Tenken]]: My take on the fast moving [[Dexterity]]-based fighter class<br />
<br />
[[Mystic Blade (3.5e Class)|Mystic Blade]]: Adopted, a base class alternative to the spellsword.<br />
<br />
[[Bard, Variant (3.5e Class)|Bard]]: A bard that doesn't suck.<br />
<br />
[[Savage (3.5e Class)|Savage]]: A barbarian variant that wears no armor and sacrifices defense for tremendous physical might.<br />
<br />
'''Prestige Classes:''' <br />
<br />
[[Adipose Avatar (3.5e Prestige Class)|Adipose Avatar]]: A humanoid-turned-monster who suffers from eternal starvation.<br />
<br />
[[Flying Archer (3.5e Prestige Class)|Flying Archer]]: Adopted, a bowman who gains wings and an unusual shooting technique.<br />
<br />
[[Twisted Visage (3.5e Prestige Class)|Twisted Visage]]: Adopted; a master of fear able to transform into a creature of death.<br />
<br />
[[Pariah (3.5e Prestige Class)|Pariah]]: Adopted; a wicked mortal who becomes an insidious fiend complete with massive claws.<br />
<br />
'''Monsters:'''<br />
<br />
[[Hydravise (3.5e Creature)]]<br />
<br />
'''Feats'''<br />
<br />
''Jigyousho Feats''<br />
<br />
[[Miracle-Gro (3.5e Feat)]]<br />
<br />
[[Potent Rageplant (3.5e Feat)]]<br />
<br />
[[Improved Synthesis (3.5e Feat)]]<br />
<br />
[[Improved Rose Whip (3.5e Feat)]]<br />
<br />
[[Evolution of the Species (3.5e Feat)]]<br />
<br />
''Frost Knight Feats''<br />
<br />
[[Bitter Cold (3.5e Feat)]]<br />
<br />
[[Frozen In Time (3.5e Feat)]]<br />
<br />
[[Hypothermia (3.5e Feat)]]<br />
<br />
[[Improved Aurora (3.5e Feat)]]<br />
<br />
[[Shield Sledding (3.5e Feat)]]<br />
<br />
[[Curse of Cocytus (3.5e Feat)]]<br />
<br />
''Ochremancer Feats''<br />
<br />
[[Rancorous Sludge (3.5e Feat)]]<br />
<br />
''Tenken Feats''<br />
<br />
[[Slash Step (3.5e Feat)]]<br />
<br />
[[Sweeping Slash (3.5e Feat)]]<br />
<br />
[[Slice & Dice (3.5e Feat)]]<br />
<br />
'''Other'''<br />
<br />
[[Eldritch Beam (DnD Invocation)]]<br />
<br />
[[Pseudologia Fantastica (DnD Flaw)]]<br />
<br />
[[Gender Bender (3.5e Equipment)]]</div>ThunderGod Cidhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Empusar_(3.5e_Class)&diff=508976Talk:Empusar (3.5e Class)2011-03-04T17:28:08Z<p>ThunderGod Cid: /* Makes up for the lack of damage */</p>
<hr />
<div>== What, no bronze leg? ==<br />
<br />
Glancing at it, it kinda seems like a [[soulknife]]/[[monk]] with less durability, some wacky 3/day spell-likes instead of wacky 1/day monk techniques, a Psychic Strike that instead boosts an ally's damage and is limited by uses/day, as well as some social skill bonuses. Anyway, what kind of action does Satanic Spite require, and do you multiply the extra damage? And do shields count as armor for the purposes of losing Profane Beauty bonuses? Do your claws gain iterative attacks? The text about two-weapon fighting with them seems to imply that they do.<br />
<br />
It doesn't seem to ever become particularly good at melee combat (and it can't do much of ''anything'' against CR 3 [[SRD:shadow|shadows]] with its class abilities until level 4...). Satanic Spite doesn't have enough uses per day to really justify the fact that it only affects one attack per use and only averages about +17 damage at level 17. The spell-likes seem really gimmicky and not particularly effective until Heartthrob rolls around (Devil's Plaything would be a little better if it didn't only work on humanoids...and if more humanoids used two-handed weapons). It seems pretty weak overall and unsure of what it really wants to be.<br />
<br />
I'd like it if you gave out some of the [[half-fiend]] template abilities and bonuses before level 20. I say the nail enhancement bonus progression should be pushed forward one or two levels to help with incorporeals, and the AC bonus could stand to be improved slightly (+1 at 1st, 4th, and every four levels afterwards). A bump in hit dice to d8 wouldn't be too bad, either. I mean, if [[cleric|''clerics'']] can have d8s for hit points...<br />
<br />
By the way, you didn't describe the Malicious Embrace ability. [[User:Finfreeze|Finfreeze]] 21:32, 29 May 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:Malicious Embrace was added; to be fair, it is identical to the succubus' energy drain ability, but some similarities to the succubus were inevitable. I also pushed the +1 enhancement bonus to level 3 (allowing the bonus to top out at +5 at level 19). Additionally, the claw attacks were meant to be iterative, since I felt that the system of only having two claw attacks in one round forever was rather weak for a PC. So instead, they function as weapons, with all the normal penalties for two-weapon fighting. <br />
<br />
:I was originally going to have Satanic Spite be a sneak attack, but that seemed so trite that I decided to go with this instead. It is pretty similar to the soulknife's ability, but it seems to allow the empusar the opportunity to be a team player by reinforcing her allies' attacks instead of just her own. This is made feasible by the fact that it is an immediate action (good catch there, by the way), so it can be used even when it is not the empusar's turn.<br />
<br />
:It's not the most combat-effective killing machine in the world, but that was not supposed to be its one and only purpose. Honestly, though, I'm not exactly sure what that purpose is. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|ThunderGod Cid]] 06:16, 30 May 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
==More like a race?==<br />
I love the fact that you decided to make an empusa class, but it seems more like a race than a class--[[User:Storm Elf5|Storm Elf5]] 09:33, 30 May 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:Normally I might agree with you that the empusa would be a race, but I have to admit that the empusar is similar in name only and has no bearing on the class abilities (hence, as a previous commenter pointed out, no bronze leg). The class is based on Lust from the Fullmetal Alchemist mange/anime (the charcter in the picture), but even the resemblance there only goes so far as the Naraka Nails. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 10:23, 1 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== Rating == <br />
<br />
'''Power - 4/5''' The class is slightly weaker than it should be, some abilities are really nice but it need a bit more damage potential. However I see many way to optimize it and make it level competitive. --[[User:Lord Dhazriel|Lord Dhazriel]] 00:56, 1 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:So, any suggestions in particular? An increase in the claw damage of Naraka Nails, or perhaps the benefits of Two-Weapon feats with the nails? Mabe increased damage from Satanic Spite, or make it usable once per round at will. Ideas would be helpful and very much appreciated. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 06:38, 1 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
'''Wording - 5/5''' Pretty much clear. --[[User:Lord Dhazriel|Lord Dhazriel]] 00:56, 1 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
'''[[Help:Standards and Formatting (DnD Guideline)|Formatting]] - 4.5/5''' Most everything is here, and interwiki links are presents. Only sample NPCs and stuff are missing. --[[User:Lord Dhazriel|Lord Dhazriel]] 00:56, 1 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
'''Flavor - 5/5''' I must admit I am extremely interested by the class, it quite original and it ability are entertaining. --[[User:Lord Dhazriel|Lord Dhazriel]] 00:56, 1 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
I though, maybe you could add some warlock invocation... just a little suggestion, maybe it could be interesting. --[[User:Lord Dhazriel|Lord Dhazriel]] 00:56, 1 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:Would these be taken from the list of warlock invocations or made from a separate list? - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 06:38, 1 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== Refitted ==<br />
<br />
I changed up the table to remove dead levels and increase its overall power (although I feel that the ones that only increase Satanic Spite might remain a little suspect). I also made Malicious Embrace a scaling ability (and considered changing the name to Kiss of Death, if anyone likes that better) that increases the number of negative levels it deals in a round, an idea I admittedly borrowed from the [[Medium (DnD Class)|Medium class]] that I'm working on with [[User:Jota|Jota]]. Invocations to go with Lord Dhazriel's suggestion might come later, but at the moment I don't really have enough invocations to make that sufficiently workable. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 10:31, 1 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== Satanic Spite ==<br />
<br />
Hi,<br />
<br />
first at all, I'd like to congratulate you for this very attractive class. I was looking for a succub like class for an evil team and I find yours.<br />
<br />
But my guess is the Satanic Spite description is a little fuzzy, we don't have any indications about range and how this power is manisfesting itself. Does the empusar have to see the target ? It is somatic or verbal ? <br />
<br />
Again congrats for this amazing work.<br />
<br />
Ketrus<br />
<br />
:I'm glad you like it. I have made changes to remedy your concerns; the range of the effect is essentially limitless (usuable as long as the empusar can see the target), but due to the circumstantiality of the effect I don't think it drastically affects its power. I hope you get good use out of it. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 11:29, 16 October 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== Rating == <br />
<br />
'''Power - <<<Insert Your Rating Here>>>/5''' I give this class a <<<Insert Your Rating Here>>> out of 5 because <<<insert why you gave the rating and how to improve it>>> {{unsigned|70.165.18.98}}<br />
<br />
'''Wording - <<<Insert Your Rating Here>>>/5''' I give this class a <<<Insert Your Rating Here>>> out of 5 because <<<insert why you gave the rating and how to improve it>>> {{unsigned|70.165.18.98}}<br />
<br />
'''[[Help:Standards and Formatting (DnD Guideline)|Formatting]] - <<<Insert Your Rating Here>>>/5''' I give this class a <<<Insert Your Rating Here>>> out of 5 because <<<insert why you gave the rating and how to improve it>>> {{unsigned|70.165.18.98}} <br />
<br />
'''Flavor - <<<Insert Your Rating Here>>>/5''' I give this class a <<<Insert Your Rating Here>>> out of 5 because <<<insert why you gave the rating and how to improve it>>> {{unsigned|70.165.18.98}}<br />
<br />
:Wow, and I mean '''''wow'''''. You didn't even try to rate my class. Well, I suppose that I might be grateful that you didn't given what you said about Rith's Threat. I would delete the whole section but maybe, just maybe, someone else may be kind enough to come along and actually fill it in. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 20:17, 8 December 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
Nevermind. <br />
<br />
It can be SLIGHTLY more powerful, and more flavor would be nice.<br />
<br />
==Dear 173.80.167.1==<br />
<br />
I noticed on April 7th 2010 you made a few additions to this class. I was wondering why? Can you explain to me how your edits complement and strengthen this class? I noticed you just added a few things you thought would look pretty and then left without saying a word. Maybe you could enlighten me as to why an Empusar needs "Stealth", "Acrobatics", and a floating disc thingy?<br />
<br />
Hopefully you can find the time to explain your changes before they get reverted. I'm not being mean, It's just rude to edit and then run away. I look forward to hearing from you. --[[User:Jay Freedman|Jay Freedman]] 04:41, 8 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Nevermind, I just noticed that all your edits refer to 4th Edition material. I will undo your edits immediately. This is not a 4th Edition Class and should not contain 4e skills and features. --[[User:Jay Freedman|Jay Freedman]] 04:54, 8 April 2010 (UTC)i know, <br />
<br />
Just to let you know, i love the empusar. It makes the perfect fit for my vampire. I think making it a class is actually better than making it a race,as you can know develop and hone your heritage as you develop. Once again, thanks, can't tell you how frustrating it gets when you find Lamia steals all the spotlight, bout time empusa got some attention.<br />
<br />
Poor little sun-dweller out past curfew. And to think, you might have survived if it wasn't so close to suppertime.<br />
<br />
==Constructive Editing==<br />
<br />
Dear Lord Arukado. April 11th 2010.<br />
<br />
Care to tell me why you added the edits you did. Martial Weapons, Skill changes, and Class Feature additions. It sure seems like a lot of new stuff and you didn't even mention why you added it? Hopefully you can find the time to enlighten the community as to why this class needed changing. I'm not being mean, It's just rude to edit and then run away. I look forward to hearing from you. --[[User:Jay Freedman|Jay Freedman]] 05:19, 12 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Rating == <br />
<br />
'''Power - 5/5''' I give this class a 4 out of 5 because Extremely Well-Balanced. --[[Special:Contributions/76.78.185.219|76.78.185.219]] 20:01, 19 February 2011 (MST)<br />
<br />
'''Wording - 5/5''' I give this class a 5 out of 5 because Well-Written and nigh-perfect grammar and spelling. --[[Special:Contributions/76.78.185.219|76.78.185.219]] 20:01, 19 February 2011 (MST)<br />
<br />
'''[[Help:Standards and Formatting (DnD Guideline)|Formatting]] - 5/5''' I give this class a 5 out of 5 because the class's information is easy to find, and well-organized. --[[Special:Contributions/76.78.185.219|76.78.185.219]] 20:01, 19 February 2011 (MST)<br />
<br />
'''Flavor - 4.5/5''' I give this class a 4.5 out of 5 because Interesting idea for a class. --[[Special:Contributions/76.78.185.219|76.78.185.219]] 20:01, 19 February 2011 (MST)<br />
<br />
== Makes up for the lack of damage ==<br />
<br />
The Idea for the shift mutations is for the lack of damage here it makes it more umm versatile i guess u could say<br />
<br />
and the skills that lord put on here r pretty good so i brought them back i mean it just makes her a better support team player and think about it who does she represent lust from FMA i mean come on the transmutation thing works and love follows yea same ;)<br />
<br />
:I'm totally going to ignore the fact that these changes were made without the consent of the author because I honestly don't particularly care about this class or this site anymore, but I felt compelled to say something when I saw that the correct spelling of the word "exist" was changed to an incorrect spelling "esist". Honestly, use spellcheck before you edit. It will make you seem less stupid. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 10:27, 4 March 2011 (MST)</div>ThunderGod Cidhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Empusar_(3.5e_Class)&diff=508975Empusar (3.5e Class)2011-03-04T17:27:57Z<p>ThunderGod Cid: /* Empusars in the Game */ Someone fails English class forever</p>
<hr />
<div>{{stub|Missing an example NPC.}}<br />
{{DnD Base Class Infobox<br />
|img=49413-lust by erina large.jpg<br />
|imgloc=<br />
|imgsize=320px<br />
|imgcaption=<br />
|rating_power= 4<br />
|raters_power= 1<br />
|rating_wording= 5<br />
|raters_wording= 1<br />
|rating_formatting= 4.5<br />
|raters_formatting= 1<br />
|rating_flavor= 5<br />
|raters_flavor= 1<br />
|authors=[[User:ThunderGod Cid|ThunderGod Cid]]<br />
|datecreated=May 25, 2009<br />
|status=Finished except for NPC<br />
|editing=Post suggestions on discussion<br />
|type=Skilled, Combat-Focused<br />
|desc=Part mortal, part succubus, all evil bitch.<br />
}}<br />
<br />
==Empusar==<br />
<br />
As the primary female demons in existence, succubi often go to bed with mortals, and the unique physiology of these abyssal fiends allows for some unique offspring. The rare product of this unholy union is an empusar. <br />
<br />
===Making an Empusar===<br />
<br />
The empusar is a temptress, a coy and articulate seducer of others and an evoker of evil. Beneath her passionate façade lies a manipulative and violent side that she only reveals at the exact moment when she is ready to strike. With the charm and evil of her succubus lineage, the empusar is a formidable (if deceptive) opponent.<br />
<br />
'''Abilities:''' [[Charisma]] is by far the most important ability for the empusar; it boosts her Armor Class, is the key stat for most of her skills, and affects the DC's for her abilities. Since many empusars wear little or no armor, Dexterity is the next most important stat in helping her overcome her deficiencies in battle, making her harder to hit and increasing her abilit to survive.<br />
<br />
'''Races:''' Empusars are overwhelmingly human, as a succubus rarely takes any other form. Exceptions do exist, but are rare.<br />
<br />
'''Alignment:''' Any non-good. Unlike their demonic ancestors, empusars are not bound to any particular alignment, but their heritage is persuasive enough to turn them from the path of good.<br />
<br />
'''Starting Gold:''' As [[SRD:Bard|bard]].<br />
<br />
'''[[SRD:Race Descriptions#Starting Age|Starting Age]]:''' Simple.<br />
<br />
{| class="{{d20}}"<br />
|+<br />
<div>{{#anc:Table: The Empusar}}</div><br />
Hit Die: d8<br />
|-<br />
! rowspan="2" | Level<br />
! rowspan="2" | [[BAB|Base<br/>Attack Bonus]]<br />
! colspan="3" | [[SRD:Saving Throw|Saving Throw]]s<br />
! rowspan="2" | Special<br />
! rowspan="2" | [[#Profane Beauty|AC<br/>Bonus]]<br />
|-<br />
! [[SRD:Saving Throw#Fortitude|Fort]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Reflex|Ref]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Will|Will]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|1st|| class="left" | +0 || +0 || +2 || +2<br />
| class="left" | [[#Naraka Nails|Naraka Nails]], [[#Profane Beauty|Profane Beauty]]|| class="left" |+0<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|2nd|| class="left" | +1 || +0 || +3 || +3<br />
| class="left" | [[#Satanic Spite|Satanic Spite +1d6]]|| class="left" | +0<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|3rd|| class="left" | +2 || +1 || +3 || +3<br />
| class="left" | [[#Hell Hath No Fury...|Hell Hath No Fury...]]|| class="left" | +0<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|4th||class="left" | +3 || +1 || +4 || +4<br />
| class="left" | [[#Satanic Spite|Satanic Spite +2d6]], [[#Love Follows|Love Follows]], [[#Shift Mutation|Shift Mutation]] || class="left" | +0<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|5th||class="left" | +3 || +1 || +4 || +4<br />
| class="left" | [[#Symphony of the Damned|Symphony of the Damned]]|| class="left" | +1<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|6th||class="left" | +4 || +2 || +5 || +5<br />
| class="left" | [[#Satanic Spite|Satanic Spite +3d6]]|| class="left" |+1<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|7th||class="left" | +5 || +2 || +5 || +5<br />
| class="left" | [[#Poison Polish|Poison Polish]]|| class="left" | +1<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|8th||class="left" | +6/+1 || +2 || +6 || +6<br />
| class="left" | [[#Satanic Spite|Satanic Spite +4d6]]|| class="left" | +1<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|9th||class="left" | +6/+1 || +3 || +6 || +6<br />
| class="left" | [[#Malicious Embrace|Malicious Embrace]],[[#Teleport Transmutaion|Teleport Transmutaion]]|| class="left" | +1<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|10th||class="left" | +7/+2 || +3 || +7 || +7<br />
| class="left" | [[#Payback’s A Bitch|Payback’s A Bitch]], [[#Satanic Spite|Satanic Spite +5d6]]|| class="left" | +2<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|11th||class="left" | +8/+3 || +3 || +7 || +7<br />
| class="left" | [[#Nine Inch Nails|Nine Inch Nails]]|| class="left" | +2<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|12th||class="left" | +9/+4 || +4 || +8 || +8<br />
| class="left" | [[#Satanic Spite|Satanic Spite +6d6]], [[#Tongue of the Serpent|Tongue of the Serpent]]|| class="left" | +2<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|13th||class="left" | +9/+4 || +4 || +8 || +8<br />
| class="left" | [[#Devil’s Plaything|Devil’s Plaything]]|| class="left" | +2<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|14th||class="left" | +10/+5 || +4 || +9 || +9<br />
| class="left" | [[#Satanic Spite|Satanic Spite +7d6]], [[#Malicious Embrace|Malicious Embrace]] (2)|| class="left" | +2<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|15th||class="left" | +11/+6/+1 || +5 || +9 || +9<br />
| class="left" | [[#Heartthrob|Heartthrob]]|| class="left" | +3<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|16th||class="left" | +12/+7/+2 || +5 || +10 || +10<br />
| class="left" | [[#Satanic Spite|Satanic Spite +8d6]]|| class="left" | +3<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|17th||class="left" | +12/+7/+2 || +5 || +10 || +10<br />
| class="left" | [[#Mind Reaver|Mind Reaver]]|| class="left" | +3<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|18th||class="left" | +13/+8/+3 || +6 || +11 || +11<br />
| class="left" | [[#Satanic Spite|Satanic Spite +9d6]]|| class="left" | +3<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|19th||class="left" | +14/+9/+4 || +6 || +11 || +11<br />
| class="left" | [[#Malicious Embrace|Malicious Embrace]] (3)|| class="left" | +3<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|20th||class="left" | +15/+10/+5 || +6 || +12 || +12<br />
| class="left" | [[#Satanic Spite|Satanic Spite +10d6]], [[#The Devil’s Daughter|The Devil’s Daughter]]|| class="left" | +4<br />
|-<br />
| colspan="42" class="skill" |<br />
'''Class Skills (6 + [[SRD:Intelligence|Int]] modifier per level, &times;4 at 1st level)'''<br/><br />
[[Balance]] ([[SRD:Dexterity|Dex]]), [[Bluff]] ([[SRD:Charisma|Cha]]), [[Concentration]] ([[SRD:Constitution|Con]]), [[Diplomacy]] ([[SRD:Charisma|Cha]]), [[Disguise]] ([[SRD:Charisma|Cha]]), [[Craft|Craft (All)]] ([[SRD:Intelligence|Int]]), [[Escape Artist]] ([[SRD:Dexterity|Dex]]), [[Gather Information]] ([[SRD:Charisma|Cha]]), [[Hide]] ([[SRD:Dexterity|Dex]]), [[Jump]] ([[SRD:Strength|Str]]), [[Knowledge|Knowledge (all skills,)]] ([[SRD:Intelligence|Int]]), [[Listen]] ([[SRD:Wisdom|Wis]]), [[Move Silently]] ([[SRD:Dexterity|Dex]]), [[Perform All]] ([[SRD:Charisma|Cha]]), [[Sense Motive]] ([[SRD:Wisdom|Wis]]), [[Sleight of Hand]] ([[SRD:Dexterity|Dex]]), [[Spellcraft]] ([[SRD:Intelligence|Int]]), [[Swim]] ([[SRD:Strength|Str]]), [[Tumble]] ([[SRD:Dexterity|Dex]]), [[Use Magic Device]] ([[SRD:Charisma|Cha]]).<br />
|}<br />
<br />
====Class Features====<br />
<br />
All of the following are class features of the empusar.<br />
<br />
'''Weapon and Armor Proficiency:''' An empusar is proficient with all simple weapons,martial weapons, and no forms of armor.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Naraka Nails}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' The empusar’s fingernails can be extended and hardened to form sharp claws that deal devastating damage to her opponents. These claws deal damage based on the empusar’s size (see the table below), have a critical threat range of 18-20, and deal double damage on a critical hit. Naraka nails are natural weapons, and as a result the empusar does not incur attacks of opportunity when attacking with the nails and is considered automatically proficient with them. The empusar attacks with her full base attack bonus when using the nails (instead of only recieving one attack per round) and can use either one or two sets of claws. Each set of nails counts as a light slashing weapon for the purposes of fighting with two weapons. The empusar can take [[Weapon Finesse]] and other associated feats for the nails. In addition, the Naraka nails gain a +1 enhancement bonus at 3rd level, which increases by +1 every four levels thereafter (up to +5 at 19th level).<br />
<br />
{| class="{{d20}}"<br />
|+ {{#anc:Table: Naraka Nails}}<br />
|-<br />
! rowspan="1" | Empusar Size || Base Claw Damage<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| Fine || 1d2 <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| Diminutive || 1d3 <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| Tiny || 1d4 <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| Small || 1d6 <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| Medium || 1d8 <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| Large || 2d6 <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| Huge || 3d6 <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| Gargantuan || 4d6 <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| Colossal || 6d6 <br />
|}<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Profane Beauty}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' An empusar is a stunning physical specimen, so much so that it is difficult to land a hit on her in combat. She gains a deflection bonus to [[Armor Class]] equal to her [[Charisma]] bonus (if positive), provided she wears no armor. In addition, she also gains a +1 bonus to AC at 5th level. This value increases by +1 every five empusar levels thereafter. She also gains a bonus on [[Bluff]], [[Intimidate]], and [[Diplomacy]] checks equal to one half her class level.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Satanic Spite}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' Once per round, an empusar can fill an ally or foe with a horrible, malicious rage that makes them strike with extra force. She may add the specified amount of damage to the roll of any combatant she wishes, provided it is not herself. The damage added by satanic spite is always lethal damage, even if the combatant to whose attack the damage is added is trying to deal subdual damage. This damage is never multiplied; it is only added at the end after normal damage has been calculated. The empusar gains an additional 1d6 extra damage with Satanic spite at ever even level. The use of satanic spite is an [[SRD:Immediate Actions|immediate action]] that can be used on any opponent the empusar can see (this need not be a direct line of sight, and the ability can be used through ''[[SRD:Clairaudience/Clairvoyance|clairvoyance]]'' or a similar effect). The empusar need not make any motion or sound when using satanic spite, as having to do so may unnecessarily implicate her.<br />
<br />
'''''{{#anc:Love Follows}}'' ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Spell-Like|Sp]]):''' You create a slightly concave, circular plane of evil force that follows you about and carries loads for you. The disk is 3 feet in diameter and 5 inch deep at its center. It can hold 100 pounds of weight per 5 lvls. If used to transport a liquid, its capacity is 5 gallons. The disk floats approximately 3 feet above the ground at all times and remains level. It floats along horizontally within range and will accompany you at a rate of no more than your normal speed each round. If not otherwise directed, it maintains a constant interval of 5 feet between itself and you. The disk winks out of existence when the spell duration expires(6Hours)+2 Per 5 lvls. The disk also winks out if you move beyond its range. When the disk winks out, whatever it was supporting falls to the surface beneath it<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Shift Mutation}}:''' Your seductive ways has over time let you be able to learn how to mutate a growth in your own body, granting you a Shift Mutation from any given Enemies. Once selected the Mutations are permanent, and can be used. Upon attaining 4th level and every four levels thereafter you may select a new Mutation. The same Mutation may not be picked twice. The Mutations are as follows:<br />
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Aberration Mutation &mdash; Darkvision 60 Feet, Detect magic <br />
<br />
Animal Mutation &mdash; Scent, Tremorsense<br />
<br />
Celestial Mutation &mdash; telepathy 100 ft, Speak with Animals<br />
<br />
Construct Mutation &mdash; immune to polymorphing, petrification, or any form-altering attack, Damage Reduction 10/Adamantine<br />
<br />
Dragon Mutation &mdash; Immune to magic sleep effects and paralysis effects, Frightful Presence <br />
<br />
Elemental Mutation &mdash; Not subject to critical hits, flanking, or stunning<br />
<br />
Fiend Mutation &mdash; Damage reduction 10/cold iron,resistance to acid,cold,fire/10<br />
<br />
Fey Mutation &mdash; Tongues, does not age<br />
<br />
Giant Mutation &mdash; +2 Strength, +2 Constitution, +2 HD, +1 Natural Armor<br />
<br />
Humanoid Mutation &mdash; Bonus Feat, Favored Enemy<br />
<br />
Magical Beast Mutation &mdash; Immune to death effects, Low-light Vision<br />
<br />
Monsterous Humanoid Mutation &mdash; Regeneration, Over sized Weapon <br />
<br />
Ooze Mutation &mdash; Acidosis, Acid Damage<br />
<br />
Outsider Mutation &mdash; Does not need to eat or sleep, True Seeing<br />
<br />
Plant Mutation &mdash; Immune to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, <br />
patterns, and morale effects)<br />
<br />
Undead Mutation &mdash; Immune to fatigue and exhaustion effects, Does not need to breath<br />
<br />
Vermin Mutation &mdash; Immune to poison, and disease, Damage Reduction 5/ bludgeoning<br />
<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Hell Hath No Fury...}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' ...like a woman scorned. An empusar’s Naraka nails are now treated as evil-aligned for the purposes of overcoming [[damage reduction]] at 3rd level.<br />
<br />
'''''{{#anc:Symphony of the Damned}}'' ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Spell-Like|Sp]]):''' The empusar may replicate the effect of a ''song of festering death'' spell (''[[Book of Vile Darkness]]'' 104) three times per day at fifth level. If she succeeds at a [[Perform|Perform (singing)]] check (DC 20), a single target must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + ½ empusar level + Charisma modifier) or take 2d6 points of damage each round as their skin boils and festers. The empusar must continue making the Perform check for every round that this ability is in effect.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Poison Polish}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' The empusar gains the ability to coat her nails in poison at 7th level. This poison may be any that the empusar can make with a successful [[Craft]] (poisonmaking) check, but it must be spread through an injury. The empusar never risks poisoning herself when applying poison to her nails or another weapon.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Malicious Embrace}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Supernatural|Su]]):''' Just like a succubus, an empusar can drain a victim of life energy through physical contact, usually in the form of a kiss. If the target is not willing to be kissed, then the empusar must initiate a [[grapple]], provoking an attack of opportunity. This ability drains one [[SRD:Energy Drain, Negative Levels, and Level Loss|negative level]] for each round that the empusar maintains this contact. The kiss also carries the effect of a ''[[suggestion]]'' spell, dissuading the victim from resisting. The victim can make a Fortitude save to remove a negative level and a Will save to resist the ''suggestion''; the DC’s for both of these effect is equal to 10 + one half the empusar’s level + the empusar’s [[Charisma]] modifier. An empusar draining negative levels gains temporary hit points normally when draining energy in this manner.<br />
<br />
The empusar's malicious embrace is strengthened at 14th level, allowing her to drain two negative levels per round instead of one. This improves further to 3 negative levels per round at 19th level.<br />
<br />
'''''{{#anc:Teleport Transmutaion}}'' ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Spell-Like|Sp]]):''' You create a Transmutaion circle on the floor or other horizontal surface that teleports( 5-ft.-radius circle) any creature or thing who stands on it to a designated spot. Once you designate the destination for the circle, you can't change it. The spell fails if you attempt to set the circle to teleport creatures into a solid object, to a place with which you are not familiar and have no clear description.<br />
<br />
The circle itself is subtle and nearly impossible to notice. If you intend to keep creatures from activating it accidentally, you need to mark the circle in some way.<br />
<br />
The transmutiaon circle can be made permanent if you chant and remain undisturbed for 2hrs. A permanent transmutaion circle that is disabled becomes inactive for 1 hour, then can be triggered again as normal.<br />
<br />
'''''{{#anc:Payback's A Bitch}}'' ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Spell-Like|Sp]]):''' Three times per day at 10th level, an empusar can fire a greenish black ray that has the same effect as a ''love’s pain'' spell (''[[Book of Vile Darkness|BoVD]]'' 98) as a ranged touch attack. The ray deals 1d6 points of damage per two empusar levels (maximum 10d6) not to the target, but rather to the person dearest to them. [Note: Deciding the identity of the dearest person is a cooperative decision between the player and the DM.] On the off chance that the target has no loved one, they take the damage instead. The ray is 100 feet long + 10 feet per empusar level, but there is no limit on the distance between the subject and the loved one. There is no saving throw for this ability and no form of spell resistance applies; however, if the target (either the ray’s target or the affected love one) is in an antimagic field, the spell has no effect.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Nine Inch Nails}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' At 11th level, the empusar’s nails now attack as if they were made out of [[SRD:Adamantine|adamantine]] and had the ''[[SRD:Keen|keen]]'' enchantment.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Tongue of the Serpent}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Supernatural|Su]]):''' An empusar has a permanent ''[[tongues]]'' ability (as the spell) at 12th level. The caster level is equal to the empusar’s level.<br />
<br />
'''''{{#anc:Devil's Plaything}}'' ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Spell-Like|Sp]]):''' Idle hands are the devil’s playthings. Three times per day, an empusar can magically amputate the hand of one living humanoid within a range of 100 feet plus 10 feet per empusar level. This deals 6d6 damage to the target, and the amputated hand then proceeds to attack as a [[wight]] (except that it is considered Tiny and therefore gains a +4 bonus to attack rolls and Armor Class). The hand can be turned or rebuked, but once it is slain only a ''[[regenerate]]'' spell will reattach it. A successful [[SRD:Saving Throw|Fortitude]] save (DC 10 + ½ empusar level + empusar’s [[Charisma]] modifier) negates the effect.<br />
<br />
'''''{{#anc:Heartthrob}}'' ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Spell-Like|Sp]]):''' The empusar is extremely effective at fooling others into believing they are in love. The victim’s heart believes it too, at least for a moment, until the empusar causes it to stop. This ability is identical to the ''heartclutch'' spell, causing the target who fails a Fortitude save (DC 10 + ½ empusar level + [[Charisma]] modifier) to die in 1d3 rounds unless a ''[[regenerate]]'', ''[[heal]]'', ''[[miracle]]'' or ''[[wish]]'' spell is cast upon them within that time. A target who succeeds on the save still takes 3d6 points of damage +1 damage per empusar level. A creature with no discernible anatomy is unaffected by this ability, and the empusar can use it a number of times per day equal to her [[Charisma]] modifier day starting at 15th level.<br />
<br />
'''''{{#anc:Mind Reaver}}'' ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Spell-Like|Sp]]):''' Once per day at 17th level, the empusar can enter the mind of a creature as the ''mindrape'' spell (''[[Book of Vile Darkness|BoVD]]'' 99). She can alter emotions, memories, allegiances, and even alignment. She is also able to inflict the effects of the ''[[insanity]]'' spell upon the unfortunate victim when she is done. Alignment changes can be corrected by a ''[[break enchantment]]'' spell (although an ''[[atonement]]'' spell might also be necessary), but serious alterations to memories can only be reversed via a ''[[wish]]'' or ''[[miracle]]'' spell. A successful [[SRD:Saving Throw|Will]] save (DC 10 + ½ empusar level + empusar’s [[Charisma]] modifier) will negate this effect.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:The Devil's Daughter}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' At 20th level, the empusar has transcended the bonds of mortality and become a powerful agent of the Lower Planes. She gains the [[SRD:Half-Fiend|half-fiend]] template, but with a few exceptions. She does not gain the claw attacks of a normal [[SRD:Half-Fiend|half-fiend]]; instead, the base damage of her Naraka nails goes up by one step as if she had gained one size category. She also gains the [[SRD:Native Subtype|native]] subtype when she becomes an [[outsider]]. She also does not gain wings or the spell-like abilities from being a half-fiend, in return for an additional +4 bonus to her [[Charisma]] score. The empusar can suppress her fiendish appearance at will, and only a ''[[true seeing]]'' spell from a caster with a level greater than that of the empusar will reveal her true form.<br />
<br />
====Ex-Empusars====<br />
<br />
If an empusar ever becomes of good alignment, she loses all her class features except for the Naraka nails and profane beauty. She regains these abilities when she ceases being good-aligned and recieves an ''[[atonement]]'' spell from an evil cleric.<br />
<br />
====Shift mutations Help====<br />
Acidosis--Your veins are no longer filled with blood, but instead with a viscous acidic ooze that creates a powerful defense mechanism. When your struck by a melee piercing or slashing weapon, the attacker must succeed on a Reflex save (DC 10 + damage dealt) or take 1d4 points of acid damage for 1d4 rounds<br />
<br />
Over sized Weapon--You choose a weapon that is a size bigger than your own. You understand how to use that type of weapon of that size in combat with no penalty.<br />
<br />
Acid Damage--You skin doesn't become all mushy and oozy you just corrode things if you choose to secret a acid from your skin to whatever your touching. Like if your was to hug a friend you wouldn't damage them (unless you wanted to). The amount of damage to objects is equal to 10 + 1/2 your lvl + Con modifier per full round of contact. <br />
<br />
====Epic Empusar====<br />
<br />
{| class="{{d20}}"<br />
|+ class="epic" |<br />
<div>{{#anc:Table: The Epic Empusar}}</div><br />
Hit Die: d6<br />
|-<br />
! Level <br />
! [[#Profane Beauty|AC<br/>Bonus]]<br />
! Special<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 21st || +4 || class="left" | [[#Bonus Feats|Bonus Feat]] <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 22nd || +4 || class="left" | [[#Satanic Spite|Satanic Spite +11d6]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 23rd || +4 || class="left" | <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 24th || +4 || class="left" | [[#Satanic Spite|Satanic Spite +12d6]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 25th || +5 || class="left" | [[#Bonus Feats|Bonus Feat]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 26th || +5 || class="left" | [[#Satanic Spite|Satanic Spite +13d6]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 27th || +5 || class="left" | <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 28th || +5 || class="left" | [[#Satanic Spite|Satanic Spite +14d6]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 29th || +5 || class="left" | [[#Bonus Feats|Bonus Feat]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 30th || +6 || class="left" | [[#Satanic Spite|Satanic Spite +15d6]]<br />
|-<br />
| colspan="42" class="skill" |<br />
6 + [[SRD:Intelligence|Int]] modifier skill points per level.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
'''Naraka Nails:''' An empic empusar's naraka nails are treated as epic weapons for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction; however, the bases damage or enhancement bonuses do not increase.<br />
<br />
'''Profane Beauty:''' The empusar's AC bonus continues to increase every five levels.<br />
<br />
'''Satanic Spite:''' The empusar continues to gain additional damage for her satanic spite ability.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc: Bonus Feats }}:''' The epic empusar gains a bonus feat (selected from the list of epic empusar bonus feats) at 21st level and every four levels afterwards.<br />
<br />
''Epic Empusar Bonus Feat List:'' [[Epic Prowess]], [[SRD:Epic Speed|Epic Speed]], [[SRD:Epic Reputation|Epic Reputation]], [[Epic Weapon Focus]], [[SRD:Great Charisma|Great Charisma]], [[SRD:Great Dexterity|Great Dexterity]], [[Perfect Health]], [[SRD:Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting|Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting]], [[SRD:Superior Initiative|Superior Initiative]], [[SRD:Two-Weapon Rend|Two-Weapon Rend]].<br />
<br />
====Human Empusar Starting Package====<br />
<br />
'''Weapons:''' [[#Naraka Nails|Naraka nails]]<br />
<br />
'''Skill Selection:''' Pick a number of skills equal to 4 + [[Int]] modifier.<br />
<br />
{| class="{{d20}}"<br />
|-<br />
! class="left" | Skill || Ranks || Ability || Armor<br/>Check<br/>Penalty<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| class="left" | [[Diplomacy]] || 4 || Cha || &mdash;<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| class="left" | [[Perform]] || 4 || Cha || &mdash;<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| class="left" | [[Spellcraft]] || 4 || Int || &mdash;<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| class="left" | [[Tumble]] || 4 || Dex || &mdash;<br />
|}<br />
<br />
'''Feat:''' [[Improved Initiative]]<br />
<br />
'''Bonus Feats:''' [[Weapon Finesse]]<br />
<br />
'''Gear:''' Bedroll.<br />
<br />
'''Gold:''' 20 gp.<br />
<br />
===Campaign Information===<br />
<br />
====Playing an Empusar====<br />
<br />
'''Religion:''' Empusars with religious tendencies are commonly agents of demonic cults or the churches of evil deities. They travel as recruiters for these evil organizations, goading their victims into evil and sin. Others have little or no caring for religion at all, merely living with a completely worry-free existence devoted to the enjoyment of hedonistic pleasures. <br />
<br />
'''Other Classes:''' Empusars are most tolerated in evil parties, where it may not necessarily be uncommon to have gained your power through an unholy union. [[SRD:Paladin|Paladins]] infuriate empusars to no end, for their righteous morals interfere with the empusar's advances on unsuspecting victims and undercut many of her usual tactics. Most other classes are met by the empusar with ambivalence; in keeping with her fiendish ancestors, she is usually too self-absorbed to care about anyone else.<br />
<br />
'''Combat:''' An empusar is no slouch in combat; what she lacks in physical power she makes up for in grace and temperament. Having wickedly sharp claws doesn't hurt her chances too much, either. Her best effectiveness, however, is achieved through deception and underhanded trickery, which empusars accomplish with great aplomb and many with frightening glee.<br />
<br />
'''Advancement:''' Empusars are attracted to the power of seduction, and as a result many supplement their powers through arcane study; given their demonic lineage, sorcery is a particularly natural talent. Others become thralls to a powerful demon, usually one who represents temptation (Grazz't or the succubus quenn Malcanthet, for example).<br />
<br />
====Empusars in the World====<br />
<br />
{{quote|''It is said that power corrupts, but actually it's more true that power attracts the corruptible. I’m not making these people do anything; I’m merely showing them an alternate path to what they desire.''|orig=Naamah Malkuth, human empusar}}<br />
<br />
Empusars use their beauty to great advantage, posing as callgirls and escorts to lure unsuspecting victims into their grasp with promises of sexual fulfillment. Non-evil empusars are often less willing to partake in such promiscuity, often finding themselves at odds with their lineage and powers. <br />
<br />
Despite their compassionate appearances, empusars have little concept of human emotions such as love. To most, love is merely an offshoot of lust, which is in turn a tool used to prey on the desperate and greedy. Every once in a while, though, an empusar may develop a lustful obsession with a particular being, usually one of good alignment and high [[Charisma]] (they are spawned from the demons of lust and temptation, after all). She will temporarily become tremendously single-minded, focusing all her attentions on that individual and thinking of nothing else. That person occupies their every thought and pervades every waking moment; an empusar in such a state will often not sleep or eat. This fixation can only be satisfied when that person lies dead at their feet, their energy sucked dry by the empusar’s [[#Malicous Embrace|malicious embrace]].<br />
<br />
'''Daily Life:''' An empusar delights in exotic pleasures of all kinds. They are materialistic and covetous to the extreme, flourishing in environments populated by evil beings. An inexperienced empusar typically finds company so she may hone her skills; those with more power are no less personable, but their goals are more focused on pleasure and ecstasy than prosperity. As a result, even intelligent empusars will rarely think very far ahead, their concentration only on the present.<br />
<br />
'''Notables:''' Naamah Malkuth is considered to be one of the ultimate high-class courtesans. Her reputation for unbridled enthusiasm in sensual pleasures is well-deserved. If the rumors are to be believed, she has been closely associated with a number of monarchs (both male and female) in the double digits. Her nomadic but always well-adorned lifestyle has made her infamous throughout the land.<br />
<br />
'''Organizations:''' Empusars have no organization; it is rare to have multiple empusars even in the same region at the same time. Very few are even aware of each others' existence, and they likely wouldn't care much if they did.<br />
<br />
'''NPC Reactions:''' Empusars are almost always alluring to the eye; everywhere they go, they are the center of attention. What better way to enjoy their wild lifestyle than to appeal to as many different people as possible? Those who see their devilish powers, however, are much more fearful, often deservedly feeling as through they have been trapped.<br />
<br />
====Empusar Lore====<br />
<br />
Characters with ranks in [[Knowledge]] (the planes) can research empusars to learn more about them. When a character makes a skill check, read or paraphrase the following, including information from lower DCs.<br />
<br />
{| class="{{d20}}"<br />
|+ Knowledge (the planes)<br />
! DC || class="left" | Result<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 5 || class="left" | An empusar is usually a stunningly beautiful woman, a conniving and manipulative beauty possessing terrible power.<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 10 || class="left" | Beware of her sharp claws, which can rend flesh as easily as any sword.<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 15 || class="left" | Empusars have a variety of magical powers as well, most of which are geared towards spreading misery and anguish.<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 20 || class="left" | Empusars are the offspring of succubi; like their parents, they are all female and use their wiles to spread corruption.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
====Empusars in the Game====<br />
<br />
An evil empusar is a classic villainess, using her powers to sow discord amongst the PC's and their allies. She can also be an interesting anti-hero; though her methods may not always be the most conventional, they are undeniably effective.<br />
<br />
'''Adaptation:''' Fiendish offspring exist in nearly every D&D campaign. Adaptation of the empusar from the child of a succubus to that of some other demon is quite simple.<br />
<br />
'''Sample Encounter:''' <-DM placement for NPCs of this class.->.<br />
<br />
''EL <!-- EL Number -->:'' <-Encounter scenario and character info on sample NPC including stat block. The CR of the NPC is typically the same as the EL for the encounter.->.<br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
{{DnD Base Classes Breadcrumb}}<br />
[[Category:DnD]]<br />
[[Category:3.5e]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Class]]<br />
[[Category:Base Class]]<br />
[[Category:Combat-Focused]]<br />
[[Category:Skilled]]</div>ThunderGod Cidhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Empusar_(3.5e_Class)&diff=508974Talk:Empusar (3.5e Class)2011-03-04T17:27:02Z<p>ThunderGod Cid: /* Makes up for the lack of damage */</p>
<hr />
<div>== What, no bronze leg? ==<br />
<br />
Glancing at it, it kinda seems like a [[soulknife]]/[[monk]] with less durability, some wacky 3/day spell-likes instead of wacky 1/day monk techniques, a Psychic Strike that instead boosts an ally's damage and is limited by uses/day, as well as some social skill bonuses. Anyway, what kind of action does Satanic Spite require, and do you multiply the extra damage? And do shields count as armor for the purposes of losing Profane Beauty bonuses? Do your claws gain iterative attacks? The text about two-weapon fighting with them seems to imply that they do.<br />
<br />
It doesn't seem to ever become particularly good at melee combat (and it can't do much of ''anything'' against CR 3 [[SRD:shadow|shadows]] with its class abilities until level 4...). Satanic Spite doesn't have enough uses per day to really justify the fact that it only affects one attack per use and only averages about +17 damage at level 17. The spell-likes seem really gimmicky and not particularly effective until Heartthrob rolls around (Devil's Plaything would be a little better if it didn't only work on humanoids...and if more humanoids used two-handed weapons). It seems pretty weak overall and unsure of what it really wants to be.<br />
<br />
I'd like it if you gave out some of the [[half-fiend]] template abilities and bonuses before level 20. I say the nail enhancement bonus progression should be pushed forward one or two levels to help with incorporeals, and the AC bonus could stand to be improved slightly (+1 at 1st, 4th, and every four levels afterwards). A bump in hit dice to d8 wouldn't be too bad, either. I mean, if [[cleric|''clerics'']] can have d8s for hit points...<br />
<br />
By the way, you didn't describe the Malicious Embrace ability. [[User:Finfreeze|Finfreeze]] 21:32, 29 May 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:Malicious Embrace was added; to be fair, it is identical to the succubus' energy drain ability, but some similarities to the succubus were inevitable. I also pushed the +1 enhancement bonus to level 3 (allowing the bonus to top out at +5 at level 19). Additionally, the claw attacks were meant to be iterative, since I felt that the system of only having two claw attacks in one round forever was rather weak for a PC. So instead, they function as weapons, with all the normal penalties for two-weapon fighting. <br />
<br />
:I was originally going to have Satanic Spite be a sneak attack, but that seemed so trite that I decided to go with this instead. It is pretty similar to the soulknife's ability, but it seems to allow the empusar the opportunity to be a team player by reinforcing her allies' attacks instead of just her own. This is made feasible by the fact that it is an immediate action (good catch there, by the way), so it can be used even when it is not the empusar's turn.<br />
<br />
:It's not the most combat-effective killing machine in the world, but that was not supposed to be its one and only purpose. Honestly, though, I'm not exactly sure what that purpose is. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|ThunderGod Cid]] 06:16, 30 May 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
==More like a race?==<br />
I love the fact that you decided to make an empusa class, but it seems more like a race than a class--[[User:Storm Elf5|Storm Elf5]] 09:33, 30 May 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:Normally I might agree with you that the empusa would be a race, but I have to admit that the empusar is similar in name only and has no bearing on the class abilities (hence, as a previous commenter pointed out, no bronze leg). The class is based on Lust from the Fullmetal Alchemist mange/anime (the charcter in the picture), but even the resemblance there only goes so far as the Naraka Nails. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 10:23, 1 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== Rating == <br />
<br />
'''Power - 4/5''' The class is slightly weaker than it should be, some abilities are really nice but it need a bit more damage potential. However I see many way to optimize it and make it level competitive. --[[User:Lord Dhazriel|Lord Dhazriel]] 00:56, 1 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:So, any suggestions in particular? An increase in the claw damage of Naraka Nails, or perhaps the benefits of Two-Weapon feats with the nails? Mabe increased damage from Satanic Spite, or make it usable once per round at will. Ideas would be helpful and very much appreciated. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 06:38, 1 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
'''Wording - 5/5''' Pretty much clear. --[[User:Lord Dhazriel|Lord Dhazriel]] 00:56, 1 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
'''[[Help:Standards and Formatting (DnD Guideline)|Formatting]] - 4.5/5''' Most everything is here, and interwiki links are presents. Only sample NPCs and stuff are missing. --[[User:Lord Dhazriel|Lord Dhazriel]] 00:56, 1 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
'''Flavor - 5/5''' I must admit I am extremely interested by the class, it quite original and it ability are entertaining. --[[User:Lord Dhazriel|Lord Dhazriel]] 00:56, 1 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
I though, maybe you could add some warlock invocation... just a little suggestion, maybe it could be interesting. --[[User:Lord Dhazriel|Lord Dhazriel]] 00:56, 1 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:Would these be taken from the list of warlock invocations or made from a separate list? - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 06:38, 1 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== Refitted ==<br />
<br />
I changed up the table to remove dead levels and increase its overall power (although I feel that the ones that only increase Satanic Spite might remain a little suspect). I also made Malicious Embrace a scaling ability (and considered changing the name to Kiss of Death, if anyone likes that better) that increases the number of negative levels it deals in a round, an idea I admittedly borrowed from the [[Medium (DnD Class)|Medium class]] that I'm working on with [[User:Jota|Jota]]. Invocations to go with Lord Dhazriel's suggestion might come later, but at the moment I don't really have enough invocations to make that sufficiently workable. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 10:31, 1 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== Satanic Spite ==<br />
<br />
Hi,<br />
<br />
first at all, I'd like to congratulate you for this very attractive class. I was looking for a succub like class for an evil team and I find yours.<br />
<br />
But my guess is the Satanic Spite description is a little fuzzy, we don't have any indications about range and how this power is manisfesting itself. Does the empusar have to see the target ? It is somatic or verbal ? <br />
<br />
Again congrats for this amazing work.<br />
<br />
Ketrus<br />
<br />
:I'm glad you like it. I have made changes to remedy your concerns; the range of the effect is essentially limitless (usuable as long as the empusar can see the target), but due to the circumstantiality of the effect I don't think it drastically affects its power. I hope you get good use out of it. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 11:29, 16 October 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== Rating == <br />
<br />
'''Power - <<<Insert Your Rating Here>>>/5''' I give this class a <<<Insert Your Rating Here>>> out of 5 because <<<insert why you gave the rating and how to improve it>>> {{unsigned|70.165.18.98}}<br />
<br />
'''Wording - <<<Insert Your Rating Here>>>/5''' I give this class a <<<Insert Your Rating Here>>> out of 5 because <<<insert why you gave the rating and how to improve it>>> {{unsigned|70.165.18.98}}<br />
<br />
'''[[Help:Standards and Formatting (DnD Guideline)|Formatting]] - <<<Insert Your Rating Here>>>/5''' I give this class a <<<Insert Your Rating Here>>> out of 5 because <<<insert why you gave the rating and how to improve it>>> {{unsigned|70.165.18.98}} <br />
<br />
'''Flavor - <<<Insert Your Rating Here>>>/5''' I give this class a <<<Insert Your Rating Here>>> out of 5 because <<<insert why you gave the rating and how to improve it>>> {{unsigned|70.165.18.98}}<br />
<br />
:Wow, and I mean '''''wow'''''. You didn't even try to rate my class. Well, I suppose that I might be grateful that you didn't given what you said about Rith's Threat. I would delete the whole section but maybe, just maybe, someone else may be kind enough to come along and actually fill it in. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 20:17, 8 December 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
Nevermind. <br />
<br />
It can be SLIGHTLY more powerful, and more flavor would be nice.<br />
<br />
==Dear 173.80.167.1==<br />
<br />
I noticed on April 7th 2010 you made a few additions to this class. I was wondering why? Can you explain to me how your edits complement and strengthen this class? I noticed you just added a few things you thought would look pretty and then left without saying a word. Maybe you could enlighten me as to why an Empusar needs "Stealth", "Acrobatics", and a floating disc thingy?<br />
<br />
Hopefully you can find the time to explain your changes before they get reverted. I'm not being mean, It's just rude to edit and then run away. I look forward to hearing from you. --[[User:Jay Freedman|Jay Freedman]] 04:41, 8 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Nevermind, I just noticed that all your edits refer to 4th Edition material. I will undo your edits immediately. This is not a 4th Edition Class and should not contain 4e skills and features. --[[User:Jay Freedman|Jay Freedman]] 04:54, 8 April 2010 (UTC)i know, <br />
<br />
Just to let you know, i love the empusar. It makes the perfect fit for my vampire. I think making it a class is actually better than making it a race,as you can know develop and hone your heritage as you develop. Once again, thanks, can't tell you how frustrating it gets when you find Lamia steals all the spotlight, bout time empusa got some attention.<br />
<br />
Poor little sun-dweller out past curfew. And to think, you might have survived if it wasn't so close to suppertime.<br />
<br />
==Constructive Editing==<br />
<br />
Dear Lord Arukado. April 11th 2010.<br />
<br />
Care to tell me why you added the edits you did. Martial Weapons, Skill changes, and Class Feature additions. It sure seems like a lot of new stuff and you didn't even mention why you added it? Hopefully you can find the time to enlighten the community as to why this class needed changing. I'm not being mean, It's just rude to edit and then run away. I look forward to hearing from you. --[[User:Jay Freedman|Jay Freedman]] 05:19, 12 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Rating == <br />
<br />
'''Power - 5/5''' I give this class a 4 out of 5 because Extremely Well-Balanced. --[[Special:Contributions/76.78.185.219|76.78.185.219]] 20:01, 19 February 2011 (MST)<br />
<br />
'''Wording - 5/5''' I give this class a 5 out of 5 because Well-Written and nigh-perfect grammar and spelling. --[[Special:Contributions/76.78.185.219|76.78.185.219]] 20:01, 19 February 2011 (MST)<br />
<br />
'''[[Help:Standards and Formatting (DnD Guideline)|Formatting]] - 5/5''' I give this class a 5 out of 5 because the class's information is easy to find, and well-organized. --[[Special:Contributions/76.78.185.219|76.78.185.219]] 20:01, 19 February 2011 (MST)<br />
<br />
'''Flavor - 4.5/5''' I give this class a 4.5 out of 5 because Interesting idea for a class. --[[Special:Contributions/76.78.185.219|76.78.185.219]] 20:01, 19 February 2011 (MST)<br />
<br />
== Makes up for the lack of damage ==<br />
<br />
The Idea for the shift mutations is for the lack of damage here it makes it more umm versatile i guess u could say<br />
<br />
and the skills that lord put on here r pretty good so i brought them back i mean it just makes her a better support team player and think about it who does she represent lust from FMA i mean come on the transmutation thing works and love follows yea same ;)<br />
<br />
:I'm totally going to ignore the fact that these changes were made without the consent of the author because I honestly don't particularly care about this class or this site anymore, but I felt compelled to say something when I saw that the correct spelling of the word "exist" was changed to an incorrect spell "esist". Honestly, use spellcheck before you edit. It will make you seem less stupid. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 10:27, 4 March 2011 (MST)</div>ThunderGod Cidhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Bard,_Variant_(3.5e_Class)&diff=508973Talk:Bard, Variant (3.5e Class)2011-03-04T17:24:45Z<p>ThunderGod Cid: /* Eeerhm, a bard that one may actually play? */</p>
<hr />
<div>This class is broken. Seriously, Wail of the Banshee twice per round at will?<br />
<br />
== Rating == <br />
<br />
'''Power - 1/5''' I give this class a 1 out of 5 because the bard gains moderate martial abilities, good spell casting powers, and numerous powerful class abilities. In addition to this, the previous comment has a point. The Riff ability can be abused to the point were this class is unplayable. --[[User:Vrail|Vrail]] 05:33, 2 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Consider that wail of the banshee is the only reason most people would find this abusive. You get that at level 19. By that point, the game is essentially already over and your are practically a demigod. Anyone who plays into epic levels is only perpetuating what is perhaps the stupidest idea in D&D. At level 20, the character should essentially rise to godhood and win D&D, because there's no point to really going on any further. The fact that a significant number of enemies encountered at said CR should also have immunity to death effects also renders wail less effective. This just seems like a gross overreaction to giving a level 9 spell at level 19 (oh noes!). - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 10:21, 4 March 2011 (MST) <br />
<br />
'''Wording - 4/5''' I give this class a 4 out of 5 because there are one or two class abilities that don't read through great and I can't quite understand, however other than that, the class reads through well. --[[User:Vrail|Vrail]] 05:33, 2 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
'''[[Help:Standards and Formatting (DnD Guideline)|Formatting]] - 5/5''' I give this class a 5 out of 5 because all sections are properly filled out. --[[User:Vrail|Vrail]] 05:33, 2 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
'''Flavor - 5/5''' I give this class a 5 out of 5 because this is a new variant on the bard changing its special abilities and making it fun to play without copying the bard a great deal. --[[User:Vrail|Vrail]] 05:33, 2 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Eeerhm, a bard that one may actually play? ==<br />
Bards truly kicks arse! When someone play's a bard in my group I pledge my loyalty to him and kiss his shoes, a bard is the one and only core that is massively usefull in any RPG. Who doesn't want to play it. Now I personally havent played one yet becouse I alway's create my own classes but if ANYTHING from the normal classes I want to be a bard at any time. Please do elaborate why a bard is a bad pickings in classes over any other basic class!.<br />
<br />
:I'll be frank, a bard is good in the sense that it can do stuff like boost other people's abilities, but when it comes to actually contributing by itself, his options are much more limited. The basic bard's music is really not super-great IMO, simply for the reason that your most viable option is to let your compadres do all the work. Doing the same thing every turn is boring, especially when in games with wizards they can just kill everything without your help. The bard would be fantastic if everyone played a fighter or monk, but honestly then you're just being a masochist. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 10:24, 4 March 2011 (MST)</div>ThunderGod Cidhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Bard,_Variant_(3.5e_Class)&diff=508972Talk:Bard, Variant (3.5e Class)2011-03-04T17:21:11Z<p>ThunderGod Cid: /* Rating */</p>
<hr />
<div>This class is broken. Seriously, Wail of the Banshee twice per round at will?<br />
<br />
== Rating == <br />
<br />
'''Power - 1/5''' I give this class a 1 out of 5 because the bard gains moderate martial abilities, good spell casting powers, and numerous powerful class abilities. In addition to this, the previous comment has a point. The Riff ability can be abused to the point were this class is unplayable. --[[User:Vrail|Vrail]] 05:33, 2 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Consider that wail of the banshee is the only reason most people would find this abusive. You get that at level 19. By that point, the game is essentially already over and your are practically a demigod. Anyone who plays into epic levels is only perpetuating what is perhaps the stupidest idea in D&D. At level 20, the character should essentially rise to godhood and win D&D, because there's no point to really going on any further. The fact that a significant number of enemies encountered at said CR should also have immunity to death effects also renders wail less effective. This just seems like a gross overreaction to giving a level 9 spell at level 19 (oh noes!). - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 10:21, 4 March 2011 (MST) <br />
<br />
'''Wording - 4/5''' I give this class a 4 out of 5 because there are one or two class abilities that don't read through great and I can't quite understand, however other than that, the class reads through well. --[[User:Vrail|Vrail]] 05:33, 2 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
'''[[Help:Standards and Formatting (DnD Guideline)|Formatting]] - 5/5''' I give this class a 5 out of 5 because all sections are properly filled out. --[[User:Vrail|Vrail]] 05:33, 2 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
'''Flavor - 5/5''' I give this class a 5 out of 5 because this is a new variant on the bard changing its special abilities and making it fun to play without copying the bard a great deal. --[[User:Vrail|Vrail]] 05:33, 2 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Eeerhm, a bard that one may actually play? ==<br />
Bards truly kicks arse! When someone play's a bard in my group I pledge my loyalty to him and kiss his shoes, a bard is the one and only core that is massively usefull in any RPG. Who doesn't want to play it. Now I personally havent played one yet becouse I alway's create my own classes but if ANYTHING from the normal classes I want to be a bard at any time. Please do elaborate why a bard is a bad pickings in classes over any other basic class!.</div>ThunderGod Cidhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Tenken_(5e_Subclass)&diff=490850Talk:Tenken (5e Subclass)2010-10-06T16:11:55Z<p>ThunderGod Cid: /* Rating */ so many ratings, posts weren't really unsigned but the nowiki tag made them unable to appear</p>
<hr />
<div>So someone could take a 1-level dip in this to gain +10 to balance, tumble, and jump? :-\ -- {{unsigned|76.169.236.139}}<br />
<br />
:I guess, theoretically, you could. I was considering changing it so that he only gains the bonuses when he is unarmored an unencumbered, but the whole class seems to hinge on that as it is. Do you think it should be changed, or is it OK as it is? - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 11:09, 24 June 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::Why give it in the first place? Why not simply have those as class skills, and expect people to invest ranks in them rather than simply giving huge bonuses for free? Also, where does the damage for this class come from? Couldn't you just go Swordsage and get basically the same thing? Daredevil could be gotten earlier with the Up the Walls psionic feat if people wanted that ability, Superior Finesse is similar to the Shadow Blade feat (add dex to damage on top of str with shadow hand weapons) and Swordsages can move so incredibly fast that it seems as though they teleport (the Shadow Jaunt series). Furthermore , Swordsages have synergy with Iaijutsu Focus in the form of Ghost Blade, Death From Above, and Sapphire Nightmare Blade strikes, which make an enemy flatfooted. I just don't see Tenkens having a niche that Swordsages can't already fulfill... :-\ [[User:76.169.236.139|76.169.236.139]] 04:29, 26 June 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::To be fair, the niche seems ideally like a combination of all those things rolled into one package. The reason for the bonuses is because normally a character can only have a maximum amount of ranks in a particular skill equal to their character level +3 (see [[SRD:Skills Summary]]). The Acrobatics feature overrides that and allows you you have unparalleled agility. [[SRD:Up the Walls|Up The Walls]] is a [[SRD:Psionic Feats|psionic feat]], which means you have to take at least one level is a psionics-based class in order to use it; Daredevil is an alternative to that, and because it's not a psionic ability it cannot be disabled in a power-suppressing area like Up The Walls could be. The Swordsage comparison is valid, but the tenken does not incorporate the variant rules system (stances, maneuvers, Iaijutsu Focus, etc.) presented in the Book of Nine Swords (a system that I personally dislike because I feel that choosing maneuvers that are supernatural abilities is reducing the martial classes down to almost spellcasters). I think that the idea of someone moving so quickly that it's like teleportation is terribly overused in homebrew D&D, and that the monk's presentation of fast movement is more balanced but somehow less trite. As for the attacks that make an enemy flat-footed, denying the Dex bonus to AC is good and all, but only particularly useful if you have some sneak attack damage to back it up (at least in my opinion). In addition, the swordsage has seven dead levels. I'm not totally being fair to it because it gains additional maneuvers, etc., but the fact remains that the tenken essentially has no dead levels (although I will admit that the levels with just a bonus feat might be cutting it close). To most of the homebrewers that I know of, dead levels are considered a bad thing, so perhaps they will see it (the tenken, I mean) as an alternative to playing a swordsage. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 06:27, 26 June 2009 (MDT)<br />
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:::Edit: As for where damage comes from, shukuchi allows the tenken to lay down five attacks per turn at higher levels, most of which (with maximum BAB) have a decent chance to hit. When combined with the ''[[haste]]'' effect, which gives them another attack at full BAB, the tenken can bring the pain, especially when his critical modifier is extended by Life on the Edge. Additionally, thanks to Superior Finesse, [[Dexterity]] is the only stat the tenken needs to increase to maximize has attack capabilities. Not to mention Astra at level 19, which combines all the previous abilities for a whopping 12 attacks at once. If you have a ''vorpal'' sword, chances are your opponent is doomed. Hope that helps. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 07:12, 26 June 2009 (MDT)<br />
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== Rating == <br />
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'''Power - 5/5''' I give this class a 5 out of 5 because the multiple attacks with low minuses at the start and the haste ability make it awesome {{unsigned|72.224.255.16}}<br />
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Personally I really only see one flaw in this class, and that is that you were trying to promote sword usage, but there are not many abilities that hinge upon this, to me it seems I could play a Tenken with an axe and it would bbe close to the same. {{unsigned|JohnnyCakes}}<br />
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:To be fair, the original idea was for a swordsman (the class is something of a tribute to ''Rurouni Kenshin'', after all), but it's intentionally ambiguous in order to allow variation. True, the examples all use swords, but the class features (correct me if there is a discrepancy) usually say "a single melee slashing weapon" in most relevant cases. So yeah, an axe tenken is fine; I was just trying to be consistent with my examples. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 18:25, 26 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
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==Shinsoke==<br />
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Awesome! At level 20 a Tenken is always hasted with a base speed (30+70)+30= 130ft. Can make an additional attack with haste and Shukuchi as a full round action for a +20/+20/+20/+20/+15/+10/+5. Add in his critical threat range, 50% miss chance, and dexterious Armor Class and you have one beasty dude. (I just pee'd my pants alittle.) --[[User:Jay Freedman|Jay Freedman]] 12:50, 9 August 2009 (MDT)<br />
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:I'm glad that you like it. A rating would be appreciated. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 18:56, 9 August 2009 (MDT)<br />
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== Rating == <br />
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'''Power - 4/5''' I give this class a 4 out of 5 because it might be a little overpowered. I very much enjoy all the abilities this class gives. (Especially before level 10.) Its always nice to be a bad ass in no armor. However I think this means your going to have alot of money to spend on other things while your team members fork over the cash for magic armors. Plus, its been done before. You also gain miss chances on top of your Armor Class bonuses when you move. I want to compare this class with a monk, but I'm afraid the monk would just get hammered against this class. I want to say your role in combat is Striker but your ability to avoid damage is pretty high. Maybe a d6 hit die or a rough penalty for not following a moral code is needed. Anyway, its your class and I think its freakin' awesome. --[[User:Jay Freedman|Jay Freedman]] 19:32, 9 August 2009 (MDT)<br />
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: The monk is a bad class and nearly any other class would "hammer" it (even the Adept, an NPC class, is noted as better than the monk in study). The striker point; a striker is not meant to take damage, he is meant to avoid damage, as you noted. So the class would fit the striker niche very well. Magic armour, especially compared to Magic Weapons, are relatively cheap at each level of the game. AC isn't a very good way of measuring power though because AC doesn't scale well to BAB. If the class gives a miss chance, then it is doing something right. I'll comment more when I've read the class. --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 20:28, 9 August 2009 (MDT)<br />
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::Uh, so I should have given it a 5/5? Dude, get your own rating. (This one is mine! Muhahahahaha!) jk.<br />
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::: Oh, no; I quite agree that it around a 4/5. It's a decent class, but it's not perfect. I've read over it and, it is a good rating. (All your ratings belong to us) --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 21:17, 9 August 2009 (MDT)<br />
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'''Wording - 4/5''' I give this class a 4 out of 5 because its wordy as hell. Lots of foreign words for me, a stupid American with a 4th grade reading level. There is lots of stuff to read and even more to keep track of on a table. I had to read the abilities more than once to understand their meaning and apply them in my head. If your a pro at Dnd this stuff makes sense instantly. If your new then this class can read very slowly and intimidating. (Spelling was good though.) --[[User:Jay Freedman|Jay Freedman]] 19:32, 9 August 2009 (MDT)<br />
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:I'll admit that I'm kind of an English freak, so any complex words are probably a result of my own need to make it look good for myself. The foriegn words are mostly for flavor; they seem to have a better ring than "Fast", "Faster", "Very fast", "Super fast," etc. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 21:22, 9 August 2009 (MDT)<br />
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'''[[Help:Standards and Formatting (DnD Guideline)|Formatting]] - 4/5''' I give this class a 4 out of 5 because he uses the preload, links his stuff, keeps up his talk page, and has a bad ass picture. I might be oversimplifying this, but whatever. Nothing strikes me as superior about the formatting. --[[User:Jay Freedman|Jay Freedman]] 19:32, 9 August 2009 (MDT)<br />
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:I don't think the author's talk page has anything to do with the Formatting rating on a class. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 21:22, 9 August 2009 (MDT)<br />
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'''Flavor - 3/5''' I give this class a 3 out of 5 because its been done before. He wears no armor but still has a bad ass AC. Uses flurry-like attacks to increase damage. I thought the monk was the exception not the rule. Running on walls is awesome. Nothing negative there. The weird foriegn names are strange. They just confuse me but do give it a trendy asian feel. The picture is cool but the dude is wearing metal pads. His combat prowess is what makes him fun. Not his flavor, playstyle, fashion sense, or drowisms. --[[User:Jay Freedman|Jay Freedman]] 19:32, 9 August 2009 (MDT)<br />
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:Rethought it alittle after reading the rating section again. --[[User:Jay Freedman|Jay Freedman]] 19:46, 9 August 2009 (MDT)<br />
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:The picture might not be totally representative of the class, but I never really considered metal pads to be defined necessarily as armor. He could still be considered unarmored with light clothing and some padding (padded armor, is, as far as I can tell, almost a full body suit). - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 21:22, 9 August 2009 (MDT)<br />
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== Crit range threat ==<br />
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Sorry about that, thought the IP was some random user trying to vandalize the class. --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 10:34, 19 August 2009 (MDT)<br />
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== Rating == <br />
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'''Power - 4.5/5''' I give this class a 4.5 out of 5 because its definitely overpowered and could use a tad bit of nurfing --[[Special:Contributions/209.33.219.129|209.33.219.129]] 17:42, 4 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
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'''Wording - 5/5''' I give this class a 5 out of 5 because it was very well explained and worded. i found no problem understanding the characteristics of this class --[[Special:Contributions/209.33.219.129|209.33.219.129]] 17:42, 4 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
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'''[[Help:Standards and Formatting (DnD Guideline)|Formatting]] - 5/5''' I give this class a 5 out of 5 because it follows the D&D criteria to the t. it has a great description, list of well described skills and abilities, a sample Tenken and everything else one could ask for in a homebrew class --[[Special:Contributions/209.33.219.129|209.33.219.129]] 17:42, 4 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
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'''Flavor - 5/5''' I give this class a 5 out of 5 because the idea behind the tenken is pretty original, like mixing an Iaijutsu master, a Monk and a Weapons master. i have found this class very open ended and fun in a few campaigns --[[Special:Contributions/209.33.219.129|209.33.219.129]] 17:42, 4 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== cool ==<br />
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ALL 5'S!!! awesome.<br />
Question though, could u change it so that the speed bonus stacks with monks speed bonus for multiclassing?<br />
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== Rating == <br />
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'''Power - 5/5''' I give this class a 5 out of 5 because <<<insert why you gave the rating and how to improve it>>> --[[Special:Contributions/201.227.134.140|201.227.134.140]] 09:27, 16 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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'''Wording - 5/5''' I give this class a 5 out of 5 because <<<insert why you gave the rating and how to improve it>>> --[[Special:Contributions/201.227.134.140|201.227.134.140]] 09:27, 16 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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'''[[Help:Standards and Formatting (DnD Guideline)|Formatting]] - 5/5''' I give this class a 5 out of 5 because <<<insert why you gave the rating and how to improve it>>> --[[Special:Contributions/201.227.134.140|201.227.134.140]] 09:27, 16 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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'''Flavor - 5/5''' I give this class a 5 out of 5 because <<<insert why you gave the rating and how to improve it>>> --[[Special:Contributions/201.227.134.140|201.227.134.140]] 09:27, 16 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Rating == <br />
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'''Power - 4/5''' I give this class a 4 out of 5 because of the high BAB though no real combat focus. {{unsigned|86.3.119.182}}<br />
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'''Wording - 5/5''' I give this class a 5 out of 5 because it is well written and flows well. {{unsigned|86.3.119.182}}<br />
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'''[[Help:Standards and Formatting (DnD Guideline)|Formatting]] - <<<Insert Your Rating Here>>>/5''' I give this class a <<<Insert Your Rating Here>>> out of 5 because <<<insert why you gave the rating and how to improve it>>> {{unsigned|86.3.119.182}}<br />
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'''Flavor - <<<Insert Your Rating Here>>>/5''' I give this class a <<<Insert Your Rating Here>>> out of 5 because <<<insert why you gave the rating and how to improve it>>> {{unsigned|86.3.119.182}}<br />
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== Rating == <br />
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'''Power - 5/5''' I give this class a 5 out of 5 because it is freaking epic! {{unsigned|139.142.162.60}}<br />
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'''Wording - 5/5''' I give this class a 5 out of 5 because it is freaking epic! {{unsigned|139.142.162.60}}<br />
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'''[[Help:Standards and Formatting (DnD Guideline)|Formatting]] - <<<Insert Your Rating Here>>>/5''' I give this class a <<<Insert Your Rating Here>>> out of 5 because <<<insert why you gave the rating and how to improve it>>> {{unsigned|139.142.162.60}}<br />
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'''Flavor - <<<Insert Your Rating Here>>>/5''' I give this class a <<<Insert Your Rating Here>>> out of 5 because <<<insert why you gave the rating and how to improve it>>> {{unsigned|139.142.162.60}}<br />
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== Rating == <br />
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'''Power - 5/5''' I give this class a 5 out of 5 because this class shows power through speed {{unsigned|Foustus}}<br />
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'''Wording - 5/5''' I give this class a 5 out of 5 because everything is clear and easy to understand {{unsigned|Foustus}}<br />
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'''[[Help:Standards and Formatting (DnD Guideline)|Formatting]] - 5/5''' I give this class a 5 out of 5 because everything seems to be in order and properly proportioned {{unsigned|Foustus}}<br />
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'''Flavor - <<<5>>>/5''' I give this class a 5 out of 5 because I like that speed and precision can be this amazing {{unsigned|Foustus}}</div>ThunderGod Cidhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Darkbringer_(3.5e_Class)&diff=490849Talk:Darkbringer (3.5e Class)2010-10-06T15:59:04Z<p>ThunderGod Cid: /* Rating */ no need for a blank rating</p>
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<div>== BAB and Saves ==<br />
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[[Base attack bonus]] and saves follow set progressions. BAB follows Poor (+0.5 per level), Medium (+.75 per level) and Full (+1 per level). Saves either work on a Bad (+0 -> +6) or Good (+2 -> +12). The BAB of this class does not follow any of the three, infact it's worse. It gains +0.3 per level nearly! It should be changed to the poor progression. The Bad saves are in order, but the good save should change to +3 at level 2 and then progress from there. <br />
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Also, I didn't ask your permission to format. OH WELL. --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 07:11, 13 May 2009 (MDT)<br />
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I enjoy people like you, at least you have the sarcasm to be an asshole about being an asshole. And, yes again the BAB gets fucked up. Sincerely, --[[User:Avlindrel FallenTree|Avlindrel FallenTree]] 19:07, 13 May 2009 (MDT) P.S. Still going to talk to an admin about it.<br />
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== Shade Blast -- Huh? ==<br />
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What does it even mean to channel the [[SRD:Darkness|Darkness]] spell into a ray? I don't get it. Similarly, Tome of Shadows. How does that even work? It just says "you can construct one" and then goes on to give absolutely zero mechanics for doing so. [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] 14:08, 14 May 2009 (MDT)<br />
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:I would think that the author meant darkness in general and not ''[[darkness]]'' the spell (although I will fully agree that it is extremely confusing to put the link to the spell there). Mechanics-wise (and this is feedback for the author more than anyone else), it doesn't make any sense for it to be the spell since the shade blast can be used at 1st level and ''darkness'' is a second level spell. Additionally, it is was the spell the ray could only be used a certain number of times per day (assuming you had to give up a daily use of ''darkness'' for the ray), instead of being usable once per round (seemingly at will, similar to a warlock's eldritch blast). I'm guessing that the latter is the way it's supposed to be. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|ThunderGod Cid]] 16:21, 14 May 2009 (MDT)<br />
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::Yeah, it doesn't make sense. The link isn't a link to the spell, but it's italicized in the same way that you would italicize a spell (and not the other reference). [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] 16:25, 14 May 2009 (MDT)<br />
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:::The link to the Darkness spell was done by someone else who didn't have my permission to edit, Shade Blast -is- effectively a differing version of the Warlock's Eldritch Blast, though it's powered (As stated) by the Summon Darkness spell that the Darkbringer has. I'll fix the problem here in a moment, thanks for bringing it to my attention! Oh, and in regards to the Tome of Shadows, it's not really an extra mechanic so much as an item to store the "Symbol of" spells, as well as give them a little more spell ability than they have (Because they have fewer spells available.) --[[User:Avlindrel FallenTree|Avlindrel FallenTree]] 17:27, 14 May 2009 (MDT)<br />
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::::The link to Darkness was there before that person edited the page. Again, I really have no idea what the Tome of Shadows actually does. Is it a spellbook or something? [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] 17:33, 14 May 2009 (MDT)<br />
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:::::It is, and isn't. It functions more as a portable handful of scrolls. One scroll at 6th, two at 12th, and three at 18th. And, you can effectively use it for Symbol of- spells. --[[User:Avlindrel FallenTree|Avlindrel FallenTree]] 17:58, 14 May 2009 (MDT) P.S. And, as I said with the fix, you could also use it as a trap.<br />
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::::::So how much does it cost to make? How much time does it take to make? How many can you have at once? Etc. [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] 18:02, 14 May 2009 (MDT)<br />
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:::::::There we go, -now- I know what you're getting at. Fixed. --[[User:Avlindrel FallenTree|Avlindrel FallenTree]] 18:41, 14 May 2009 (MDT)<br />
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::::::::So how is this Shade Blast supposed to hit anyone? Even at level 20 with Ray Weapon Focus and a Dex Modifier of 4, the highest attack bonus it can get is 15. As you reach higher levels, your enemies will likely be harder to take down. Maybe I'm crazy, but if the Shade Blast is the primary attack of this class, there needs to be something to make it much easier for the attack to hit. Hold Person, Ghoul Touch, etc. can't really cut it against enemies that have even a pretty mediocre will save for a higher level character. Is there anything that could be added to the class that would enhance the attack roll of Shade Blast specifically? Would it be bad to go back to having Shade Blast be a standard action and then give the class the Cleric BAB?--[[User:Lemonator44|Lemonator44]] 23:19, 14 August 2009 (MDT)<br />
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::::::::The same way Eldritch Blast would. It's modeled right after it, and, you forget, it's a Ray, making it a ranged touch, which ignores everything -but- the DEX bonus of the opponent. --[[User:Avlindrel FallenTree|Avlindrel FallenTree]] 13:18, 15 August 2009 (MDT)<br />
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== Rating ==<br />
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'''Power – 3.5/5''' This class seems kind of all over the place so far as power is concerned. On the one hand, the ability to spontaneously cast any spell from your spell list and still gain bonus spells per day as a wizard is strong enough to offset the seemingly undercut normal spells per day. On the other side of it, shade blast seems almost pathetically weak, dealing 5d8 damage at 20th level as a standard action (since it’s not specifically stated, I’m assuming that’s what it is) or 5d10 as a full-round action. That’s not enough damage for level 20, considering I had guessed that shade blast was supposed to be the main source of damage. I suppose I was wrong.<br />
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Tome of Shadows seems almost pointless for the purposes of combat unless you could somehow compel the person to open the book magically, in which case you should probably be able to get the drop on them without its use. By the way, death knell doesn’t seem like the best example spell to use in this case, since the creature touched by the caster has to be dying in order to be affected.<br />
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Otherwise, Shadow Form and Summon Shade are OK. My main issue is with the shade blast (which I already went over) and Shadow’s Guidance (which is more of an issue with wording than power, so I’ll get to that). I also think that some provision shout be made in this class for being able to see in the dark; your abilities aren’t going to do you much good if you can’t see when you use them. <br />
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One more thing: even though TK-Squared already commented on it, I don’t understand the purpose of only having one attack for the BAB, given that even wizards get two at high level. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 14:23, 15 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
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:Getting better. I'll call it a 4.5 now. The main issue as of now is with the Shade Blast; the rest looks good. Is shade blast supposed to deal 1d6 damage per darkbringer level now? If so, I might suggest making it a standard action, making it so you can use only once per round. I only really suggested the BAB change because that way, if you're ever forced into melee, you won't be hopelessly screwed. When you can choose to either deal 1d6 per level to one target at will or cast spells, I think it's appropriately powered. Vision Through the Darkness is also quite a useful addition, minimizing the potentially glaring weakness of the class (although I don't think there's a See in Darkness spell that I'm aware of). I think just saying that he can see in darkness (magical or normal) as well as he can see in normal light is fine. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 19:49, 17 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
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::I suggested the Shade Blast change. What's wrong with being able to use it as an attack action, and having it do 1d6 per level? See in Darkness isn't a spell, it's an ability of fiends that works exactly in the way one wants. [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] 21:39, 17 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
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::OK, that makes sense; I was just pointing See In Darkness out because the link didn't go anywhere. As for the Shade Blast, I was just thinking about the warlock's eldritch blast (admittedly underpowered, but only dealing 1d6 per about every two levels instead of id6 per level. Given the low BAB, I'm OK with it as is. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 08:42, 18 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
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'''Wording – 4/5''' Your wording is clear and concise in most areas, but Shadow’s Guidance seems uncharacteristically poorly worded. If I’m reading it right (and if I’m wrong, by all means correct me), I think it’s supposed to extend the range of a spell beyond the norm so long as the spell’s path is through darkness. After that, it’s mostly just minor things like Shade Touch being used instead of Shade Blast in the Weapon and Armor Proficiency section. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 14:23, 15 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
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:Better now. Worthy of a 5, I'd say. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 19:49, 17 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
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'''[[Help:Standards and Formatting (DnD Guideline)|Formatting]] - 4/5''' Your formatting is good; while there could be more links (particularly in the middle of the class features), they are certainly not lacking. A lot of people don’t seem to take the time to format their spell list, so good job with that. Other than that, it all looks good except for the fact that there’s no sample NPC (I can sympathize, I never make mine). - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 14:23, 15 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
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:4.5 for now until sample NPC is up. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 19:49, 17 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
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'''Flavor - 4/5''' Mostly good. The fluff sections aren't super-amazing, but they’re solid. It piqued my interest well, and the picture is great. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 14:23, 15 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
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::Thanks alot for the rating, ThunderGod. You've given me some things to look over in regards to this class, and I really appreciate it. With that said, let me do a little work on it, see if I can't bump some of those ratings up a bit, eh? --[[User:Avlindrel FallenTree|Avlindrel FallenTree]] 22:22, 16 July 2009 (MDT)</div>ThunderGod Cidhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Kilik_Labaron&diff=490848User talk:Kilik Labaron2010-10-06T15:54:35Z<p>ThunderGod Cid: Created page with "==Response to Query== Sorry about the late reply, but I'm not particularly active on this site anymore so I don't check it particularly frequently. Ihonestly have no problem wit..."</p>
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<div>==Response to Query==<br />
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Sorry about the late reply, but I'm not particularly active on this site anymore so I don't check it particularly frequently. Ihonestly have no problem with a class that's similar to mine, as long as it's not a direct copy (I have issues with plagiarism). I don't know about a collaborative effort, since my efforts are presently directed elsewhere, but I would be more than willing to look at the class of yours. If you want to use any particular mechanics from the tenken, feel free to do so as long as you don't copy it word for word. This is a wiki, after all. To a certain extent, mechanics that are good are often meant to be recycled. I appreciate your interest in the tenken, and as a fellow DMC player I hope your efforts to make the Trickster go well. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 09:54, 6 October 2010 (MDT)</div>ThunderGod Cidhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Kenseijin_(3.5e_Class)&diff=483546Talk:Kenseijin (3.5e Class)2010-07-27T01:01:57Z<p>ThunderGod Cid: /* Balance */</p>
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<div>== Balance ==<br />
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lolwut? extra hit die is bad. really bad. over the top munchkin bad. --[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 01:24, 14 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:Whoa yeah, either I'm misreading this, or at level 3 you have 9d10 hp (assuming you have 16 WIS). Also, your saves need to be normalized. 10/10/15 is not a normal progression, they must be either 6 or 12 at level 20. --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 02:29, 14 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::So wait... at level 20 with 20 wisdom you would have 120d10 health? Huh, maybe my DM will let me play this class in my next adventure... ''':P''' --[[User:Vrail|Vrail]] 04:47, 14 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::I added [[Template:Needsbalance]]. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 17:39, 14 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::As is, the HD doesn't do that much for you if you go only with this class; it just prevents it from sucking more since all you get are bonus feats (I honestly cannot tell what the Sword Bearer does at all). It doesn't even really put it above a fighter, since even the fighter gets full BAB and more bonus feats. In, the end, this class by itself just grants HP, and that's it. It's dippable to a dangerous extreme (I can just imagine a cleric with a billion HD and persisted divine power), but it's not that big a deal if it can't be applied to other class levels. That being said, it's not really that good of an idea, either.<br />
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::::Also, way to rate your own class, man. Try to do it properly next time (because it only goes up to 5/5). - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 19:04, 14 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::Using feats for HP the fighter cannot attain this with any regard. Seems overpowered to me as such. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:42, 14 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::As far as I can tell, you take a 1 level dip to get the exponential HD class ability and then never look back. Nothing specifies that it only works with Kenseijin levels. Also since we're discussing general balance, what does putting 90% of your XP into your sword do, other than slow down leveling? Also, you included several Epic level feats in the bonus feat list. Are you planning to let non-epic characters take epic level feats?--[[User:Badger|Badger]] 00:33, 15 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::Unless you plan to use something like the Rogue bonus feat trick (ignoring prereqs), you couldn't possibly take any Epic feats anyway. Since this class has to have the prereqs, the epic feats should be removed. More importantly, a fighter with more hp is still a fighter (i.e. not that good), especially when a DM with any brains would pit you against something that doesn't need to deal damage to shit on your face. It has the same weakness as every other class that has the potential for loads of hit points: it's one failed save away from being dead. Essentially, the high hit points are irrelevant, since the class is weak enough that no reasonably leveled opponent will bother with it anyway. Pit it against anything with good SLA's and this class is screwed. Overpowered? Not likely. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 23:40, 16 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::::Ok i understand what you guys are saying, but first of all, ITS NOT DONE...and second of all if you would read about them, you would understand why they have increased hitdie, THEY HAVE NO AC, and as for mr take a level of kenseijin so you can get EXP HD and never look back, you need to learn how to read...ive had the kill factor posted on that ability since i made this class...it only works with the Oath of Freedom ability...Thus if you break the oath you lose the ability aswell as the hitdie you gained from it...as well as an alignment change to Cn and DM intervention of causing your character to die...onces its done read it and tell me what you think<br />
<br />
::::::::And FYI this is almost identical, but made less powered than a 3.0 Orient class so dont give me crap about it being OP their good but not that good...plus you have alot of restriction to actions, kinda like a pally [[User:Envoyof aGod|Envoyof_aGod]] 21:13, 24 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::::Ok, so here's the deal, "No armor" doesn't mean "no AC". Natural armor, Dex, Deflection, and other bonuses can get you to a pretty decent AC (nothing too astounding, but you can easily break 20 or so). As for the single level dip, nothing says you can't do that (unless I'm misinterpreting your rules). "Kenseijin are allowed to multiclass without penalty" is a direct quote, and as far as I can tell the only way to break the oath is to wear armor. Is Exponential Hit Dice only for levels of Kenseijin? I assume so, but nothing in your text clearly rules one way or the other. I think that is your problem. I take a single level of Kenseijin, then spend my next 19 levels playing around with other classes. I get all the benefits of Kenseijin as long as I don't wear armor, and I also get the benefits of my other classes (to boost saves, and combat functionality). That's where the OP comes into play. The class itself is pretty weak, but a single level of it is worth a ton when used with a 19 level progression of other classes. --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 22:11, 24 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::::::::hell a belt of the monk gives wisdom mod +1 to ac (its been brought up a bunch of times in the past), so no armor isnt a big deal. Bracers of armor also work, plus the things badger mentioned. Ac is easily pumpable, even with out min-maxing--[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 22:39, 24 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::::I'm curious to read the class you based this off. Was it also named Kenseijin? What book did it come from?--[[User:Badger|Badger]] 00:19, 25 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
See you havent read anything about my class...you arnt allowed to use any magical items, or any items that would aid you in any way in battle, no healing, no belts with +1 wis, how do you gain natural armor if you have no magic and are restricted to human? it does state that EXP HD applies only to kenseijin. as i said my class isnt done, but i did alot of updates, the HD is now 8 im contemplating D6, as far as multi classing, sure if you want to use that blade alone, if you use something else you violate your code, you are sworn to preserve the balance of the world, not to roam around and savor your own self satisfaction, immagine a Neutral paladin and their role in the world, coupled with the Mindset of a monk, and the other restrictions, this class might beable to break a 30 AC if built properly at level 20...30 ac at 20 is pathetic...i changed their saves to mimic the monks you need to read the full class before you respond to this please, ive been working alot on this lately and everything your saying has been changed before you said it...i dont have alot of time to just work on this class...except for today, but look closely and think about what everythign means...they are a great class...but they level slow...they have so many restrictions are you really gonna say that they are too strong...they could easily get destroyed by a equal level caster if they were level 20...<br />
<br />
Sorry bout that, i was just looking through it again...the comp at my work never saved the work i did the other day...thats why it was nt posted but it should be fixed now. [[User:Envoyof aGod|Envoyof_aGod]] 02:54, 25 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I did miss the update you made about no magical items, that was my mistake. I'll hold off on any more comments until you've totally finished the class, clearly it is still undergoing a lot of changes. I'm just curious, can a Kenseijin use potions, and oils? Can they receive the benefits of a scroll, wand, or ally's spell? Because those are also ways to pump up AC without using "magic items". --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 03:18, 25 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Given everything that has transpired since the last time I looked at this, it seems like the Hit Die means even less now. In the end, I agree with Envoy of a God in that a caster will shit on this class, but increasing the amount of HD and taking away the ability to increase useful things like Armor Class and saves via magic items is sort of ridiculous an makes this class pretty unbalanced towards the underpowered side rather than vice versa. Sure hit points are good, but a good fighter build can still mess this guy up pretty bad, and any wizard with phantasmal killer or better can kill him in one round regardless of his wicked hit point total. My concern is that this class is lacking a way to do things other than swing a sword (and it doesn't even do that very well compared to even a fighter). Not only that, but by introducing the Oath of Freedom thing you are straight-jacketing people into a certain alignment and role, which is one of the central problems with the paladin IMO. I feel like it reduces the incentive to take this class since you have to constantly worry about what you're doing or risk losing class features (even though, honestly, there isn't really much to lose here). I just think that there aren't too many reasons to want to play a Kenseijin, which is a critical problem in and of itself. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 01:01, 27 July 2010 (UTC)</div>ThunderGod Cidhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Halberdier_(5e_Class)&diff=483545Talk:Halberdier (5e Class)2010-07-27T00:49:32Z<p>ThunderGod Cid: /* Rating */ added a reply</p>
<hr />
<div>== Rating == <br />
<br />
'''Power - 1/5''' I give this class a 1 out of 5. The saves are ludicrous, for starters. Justice Spear implies no save, and paralysis without offering a save is broken at any level. The damage reduction and ability score boosts are well beyond anything a normal class gets. If the keen ability here stacks with the enchantment and/or Improved Critical, that is too much as well (see wording). Overall, there's very few balanced things in this class. The abilities are either token (like bonus feats, at least for the most part), or world-beater (Justice Spear). Also, no armor proficienies? Stab me in the face why don't you? --[[User:Jota|Jota]] 21:21, 9 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:I won't even bring the saves in.. But the lack of saves I do fear and worry. The stacking abilities and modivators seem out of wack as well. Things need to be toned down and made more to be a ground holder. Maybe a small benefit per every enemy they face off against in their threatened squares. The bonus feats need to be cleaned up as well as the overpowered skills and yes Where is the armor proficiency? -- TARK<br />
<br />
'''Wording - 1.5/5''' I give this class a 1.5 out of 5. If I was just looking at the fluff, this might by a 3 or so. That said, the lack of punctuation (commas, please!), the random capitalization, the lack of subject/verb agreement, and the occasional spelling error pervade this area. A lot of what is written just doesn't make sense or it hurts my brain to try and decipher the author's intent. Now, on to the abilities: <br />
* Bulwark of Defense isn't so bad. I get what it is supposed to be saying, it just needs an makeover.<br />
* Citizens First: So used to notice danger? What defines defenseless? What counterattack? This seems like [[SRD:Aid Another|aid another]], yet it is obviously something different, and as such it needs to be explained in greater depth.<br />
* Dark Vision. As is [[SRD:Darkvision|darkvision]]? Or something like devils get that even works in magical darkness?<br />
* Keen: does it stack with the weapon enhancement or Improved Critical?<br />
* Inspire: why the Will save, unless you are beserking people? Is that what 'forced into battle' is supposed to mean?<br />
* Wrath: 'once their HP hits half or lower than their max.' So I can wait until half my health, or take one damage and do it? I know what you mean, but clarify.<br />
* Justice Spear: how long for paralysis? How many creatures does it effect? Is there really supposed to be no saving throw?<br />
Also, what is DR + 10? Spell it out. Same with the bonus feats; are they fighter bonus feats, or just plain old extra feats?<br />
--[[User:Jota|Jota]] 21:21, 9 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:The wording really does need to mopped up a bit, I agree with Jota on the citizens first, Keen, and Iinspire. Very vague and leaves too much to the imagination. (I do intend on editing and repairing this Class but I also admit I am not perfect with grammer or spelling but I will put more effort then this into it.. so ever wishes to help with what I miss please do) -- TARK<br />
<br />
'''[[Help:Standards and Formatting (DnD Guideline)|Formatting]] - 2.5/5''' I give this class a 2.5 out of 5 because it follows the preload pretty well, but interwiki linking is non-existent. The class table should link to the abilities. Also, the info box was not there (I just added it), it doesn't have a description, and it isn't linked anywhere by categories beyond the obvious (base class, etc. - should have combat-focused, etc). --[[User:Jota|Jota]] 21:21, 9 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
'''Flavor - 1.5/5''' I give this class a 1.5 out of 5 because I get it, it's a halberdier. At the same time, parts of the preload have been cut out, and what flavor text there is exists at the bare minimum and seems forced. --[[User:Jota|Jota]] 21:21, 9 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Rating == <br />
<br />
'''Power - 2/5''' I give this class a 2 out of 5 because even though I haven't tested the class it seems unbalanced, maybe with some ability tweaks, less skills, standard saves, just general nerfs here and there, it would be more playable. --[[Special:Contributions/96.2.60.178|96.2.60.178]] 21:39, 28 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Compared to what it was when it was rated previously, I feel that this class has actually been nerfed already. As is, it can't really do anything combat-wise except hit with a meager spear attack that any fighter worth his salt could top pretty easily. If anything, it seems weak to me. I mean, the level 20 ability gives +4d6 damage tops and improved grab. Whoop-de-doo. The bleeding damage is the only thing particularly noteworthy, but it comes at level 19 which I doubt any member of this class would ever reach as they would have died multiple times over in even a moderately challenging campaign. I know power isn't everything, but being the hapless whipping boy of a party isn't much fun either. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 00:49, 27 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
'''Wording - 2.5/5''' I give this class a 2.5 out of 5 because of just randomness, granted it's hard enough to think of what to make things do, but if we can't read what you're trying to tell us, we don't know what's going on. --[[Special:Contributions/96.2.60.178|96.2.60.178]] 21:39, 28 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
'''[[Help:Standards and Formatting (DnD Guideline)|Formatting]] - 2/5''' I give this class a 2 out of 5 because it's not formatted very well, there's blank boxes, unused areas, random clutters, etc. --[[Special:Contributions/96.2.60.178|96.2.60.178]] 21:39, 28 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
'''Flavor - 3/5''' I give this class a 3 out of 5 because I may very well be biased to any classes that are designed to defend their allies, but it's been done... quite a little; give it some 'Bam!' or something to set it apart more so that it's not just another defender class.(Just to note, by Bam! I don't mean make it more powerful ^^) --[[Special:Contributions/96.2.60.178|96.2.60.178]] 21:39, 28 March 2010 (UTC)</div>ThunderGod Cidhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Over_100_Ways_to_Die_(DnD_Other)&diff=482200Over 100 Ways to Die (DnD Other)2010-07-19T14:43:58Z<p>ThunderGod Cid: </p>
<hr />
<div>A compendium of all the known ways to die. Feel free to add.<br />
<br />
Organized (alphabetically) for now. -- [[User:Jota|Jota]] 22:30, 12 January 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
#Ability Drain<br />
#Acid<br />
#Astral cord severed when in Astral Plane<br />
#Avalanche<br />
#Banshee's keening<br />
#Being Fallen Upon<br />
#Bloody Exit (blood magus ability)<br />
#Bodak's death gaze<br />
#Bored DM<br />
#Brain Extracted (Mindflayer)<br />
#Buried alive<br />
#Cancer<br />
#Captured and killed (or tortured)<br />
#Caught in a collapsing building/tunnel/dungeon<br />
#Choking/strangulation<br />
#Chuck Norris<br />
#Cow falling on top of you...only if you are a gnome or a kobald<br />
#Crucifixion<br />
#Curse<br />
#Decapitation<br />
#Dehydration<br />
#Disease<br />
#Disintegrated<br />
#Drawn and Quartered<br />
#Drowning<br />
#Eaten by rabid brownies (Cannibalized)<br />
#Electrocution<br />
#Elf touch<br />
#Encounter with a gazebo<br />
#Enter in a Level-100 Dungeon<br />
#Execution <br />
#Exsanguination (bleeding to death)<br />
#Falling<br />
#Falling into an iced over lake <br />
#Fire<br />
#Flash Flood<br />
#[[SRD:Flesh to Stone|Flesh to Stone]], followed by destroying the statue.<br />
#Get a Battle Axe to the face<br />
#Get Lazy, sleep for all eternity<br />
#Heart Attack<br />
#Heart eaten<br />
#Hurricane<br />
#Hyperthemia<br />
#Hypothermia<br />
#Illusion Magic (Phantasmal Killer, Weird)<br />
#Impaled on a stake<br />
#INT point going so low that PC forgets how to breath<br />
#Killed by a monster<br />
#Lack of air from high altitude<br />
#Landslide<br />
#Laugh to death<br />
#Lava<br />
#Light a target on fire (via spell, torch, ect.) then polymorph them into a cloud of hydrogen, and run<br />
#Magic<br />
#Make fun of an orc<br />
#Massive Damage<br />
#Matter explodes...body goes with it<br />
#Old Age<br />
#Pee on the third-rail (Electrocution)<br />
#Perfect Jump check followed by natural 1 balance check<br />
#Plane shift to positive/negative energy plane<br />
#Poison<br />
#Poorly worded ''wish'' spell<br />
#Pregnancy Complications (females only; -_- (we hope))<br />
#Quicksand<br />
#Quit the game<br />
#Smoke Inhalation<br />
#Sneeze and brain comes out<br />
#[[Whirling_Eater_of_Souls_%283.5e_Optimized_Character_Build%29|Soul eaten]]<br />
#Spastic Bowel<br />
#Spell backfiring<br />
#Spontaneous Combustion<br />
#Standing between a dwarf and the last bottle of whisky<br />
#Standing on wrong side of universal-still-point immovable rod<br />
#Starve<br />
#Storm<br />
#Suicide<br />
#Suffocation<br />
#Swallowed Whole<br />
#Teleported forward in time, then killed<br />
#Told you don't exist...thus, breaking the fourth wall<br />
#Tornado<br />
#Trampled<br />
#Traps<br />
#Tumor<br />
#Unlucky party member firing a ballista... into your combat...<br />
#Weather<br />
#trying to play a fun character when one of your other party members is a paladin. <br />
#Get in the way of the tarasque. <br />
#Piss off a dozen pit fiends. <br />
#Call a Balor's toughness into question. <br />
#Put your head into a T'rex's mouth. <br />
#Be the one who has to hold off 10,000 angry Dragonspawn on mounts. <br />
#Jump into the Orb of annihilation. <br />
#Break the staff of the Magi. <br />
#Be within five feet of a Rod of cancellation and a Orb of Annhialation's impact. <br />
#Calling a Great Wyrm Red Dragon's hoard inadequate. <br />
#Get in the Way of a Lich's Disintegration spell. <br />
#Get Tiamat really, really mad. <br />
#Call Bel a poor tactician. <br />
#Claim that Asmodeus can't plan for crap. <br />
#Being different from a beholder. <br />
#Have Drizzt Do'urdens name while being evil. <br />
#Fight all 500 of those Kobolds in the tribe at once. <br />
#Fight that Epic level death knight at level one. <br />
#Have a Dragon drop a ten ton boulder on you. <br />
#Be on the wrong end of Pun Pun's anger.<br />
#Piss in a gods favorite shoe.<br />
#Be level one and try to take on a Worm That Walks with nothing but a can of insecticide.<br />
#Forget that you cant fly at level one.<br />
#Make fun of Gary Guygax when Cuthullu is around.<br />
#Erased by spastic player.<br />
#Beaten by a proverbial ton of bricks.<br />
#Sticking your head in a reactor.<br />
#Rabies. <br />
#Covered in Salamander piss.<br />
#Shoving a pencil up your nose.<br />
#Mooning a Bladeling<br />
#Eating that suspect berry("I told it was poison").<br />
#Having a party on a Liches tomb without inviting it.<br />
#Dancing in an orc stronghold for no reason.<br />
#Trying to spell "supercalafrajalisticexpialadoshus".<br />
#Skinny dipping in demon ichor.<br />
#angry monkeys.<br />
#Kissing a Poison Toad <br />
#Apocalypse<br />
#Out of ammo with zombies all around.<br />
#Natural one on a balance check over a pit of ghouls.<br />
#MAKE BARBARIAN ANGRY!<br />
#Bull Rushed off the edge of a giant chasm.<br />
#You jump off a very tall building, and are hit by a meteor when you land.<br />
#Rocks fall, everyone dies.<br />
#Dividing by Zero <br />
#Fall down a multi-story building in a pail of slob and get slowly devoured by pigs.<br />
#Sneak attacking your parties CE Warlock <br />
#Throwing a complete Necklace of Fire Ball Type VII at your feet to kill a baddie. The Baddie dosent die :(<br />
#Being crush under the weight of a girallon from a 70ft redwood. SQUISH!!!<br />
#Losing your character sheet<br />
#Shot a whole repeating crossbow clip into the party rogue.<br />
#Rended by a garillon. i.e. ripped in half<br />
#Party members forget they have healing items when you're at -9 and fail their stabilization checks.<br />
#Owned by the Annulus<br />
#Getting so drunk you die from alcohol poisoning<br />
#Make your DM angry<br />
#Your wizard casts a fireball spell in a room full of Oil, Gunpowder, and Alchemist's Fire<br />
#Squashed by The Morbidly Obese Abomination<br />
#100th Level sorcere casts "Deathly Constipation" on you<br />
Tell a Dwarf his mother's beard is longer than his.<br />
----<br />
{{3.5e Others Breadcrumb}}<br />
[[Category:DnD]]<br />
[[Category:3.5e]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Other]]</div>ThunderGod Cidhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Kenseijin_(3.5e_Class)&diff=481697Talk:Kenseijin (3.5e Class)2010-07-16T23:43:32Z<p>ThunderGod Cid: /* Balance */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Balance ==<br />
<br />
lolwut? extra hit die is bad. really bad. over the top munchkin bad. --[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 01:24, 14 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Whoa yeah, either I'm misreading this, or at level 3 you have 9d10 hp (assuming you have 16 WIS). Also, your saves need to be normalized. 10/10/15 is not a normal progression, they must be either 6 or 12 at level 20. --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 02:29, 14 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::So wait... at level 20 with 20 wisdom you would have 120d10 health? Huh, maybe my DM will let me play this class in my next adventure... ''':P''' --[[User:Vrail|Vrail]] 04:47, 14 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::I added [[Template:Needsbalance]]. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 17:39, 14 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::As is, the HD doesn't do that much for you if you go only with this class; it just prevents it from sucking more since all you get are bonus feats (I honestly cannot tell what the Sword Bearer does at all). It doesn't even really put it above a fighter, since even the fighter gets full BAB and more bonus feats. In, the end, this class by itself just grants HP, and that's it. It's dippable to a dangerous extreme (I can just imagine a cleric with a billion HD and persisted divine power), but it's not that big a deal if it can't be applied to other class levels. That being said, it's not really that good of an idea, either.<br />
<br />
::::Also, way to rate your own class, man. Try to do it properly next time (because it only goes up to 5/5). - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 19:04, 14 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::Using feats for HP the fighter cannot attain this with any regard. Seems overpowered to me as such. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:42, 14 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::As far as I can tell, you take a 1 level dip to get the exponential HD class ability and then never look back. Nothing specifies that it only works with Kenseijin levels. Also since we're discussing general balance, what does putting 90% of your XP into your sword do, other than slow down leveling? Also, you included several Epic level feats in the bonus feat list. Are you planning to let non-epic characters take epic level feats?--[[User:Badger|Badger]] 00:33, 15 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::Unless you plan to use something like the Rogue bonus feat trick (ignoring prereqs), you couldn't possibly take any Epic feats anyway. Since this class has to have the prereqs, the epic feats should be removed. More importantly, a fighter with more hp is still a fighter (i.e. not that good), especially when a DM with any brains would pit you against something that doesn't need to deal damage to shit on your face. It has the same weakness as every other class that has the potential for loads of hit points: it's one failed save away from being dead. Essentially, the high hit points are irrelevant, since the class is weak enough that no reasonably leveled opponent will bother with it anyway. Pit it against anything with good SLA's and this class is screwed. Overpowered? Not likely. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 23:40, 16 July 2010 (UTC)</div>ThunderGod Cidhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Kenseijin_(3.5e_Class)&diff=481695Talk:Kenseijin (3.5e Class)2010-07-16T23:41:24Z<p>ThunderGod Cid: /* Balance */ fixed indent</p>
<hr />
<div>== Balance ==<br />
<br />
lolwut? extra hit die is bad. really bad. over the top munchkin bad. --[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 01:24, 14 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Whoa yeah, either I'm misreading this, or at level 3 you have 9d10 hp (assuming you have 16 WIS). Also, your saves need to be normalized. 10/10/15 is not a normal progression, they must be either 6 or 12 at level 20. --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 02:29, 14 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::So wait... at level 20 with 20 wisdom you would have 120d10 health? Huh, maybe my DM will let me play this class in my next adventure... ''':P''' --[[User:Vrail|Vrail]] 04:47, 14 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::I added [[Template:Needsbalance]]. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 17:39, 14 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::As is, the HD doesn't do that much for you if you go only with this class; it just prevents it from sucking more since all you get are bonus feats (I honestly cannot tell what the Sword Bearer does at all). It doesn't even really put it above a fighter, since even the fighter gets full BAB and more bonus feats. In, the end, this class by itself just grants HP, and that's it. It's dippable to a dangerous extreme (I can just imagine a cleric with a billion HD and persisted divine power), but it's not that big a deal if it can't be applied to other class levels. That being said, it's not really that good of an idea, either.<br />
<br />
::::Also, way to rate your own class, man. Try to do it properly next time (because it only goes up to 5/5). - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 19:04, 14 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::Using feats for HP the fighter cannot attain this with any regard. Seems overpowered to me as such. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:42, 14 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::As far as I can tell, you take a 1 level dip to get the exponential HD class ability and then never look back. Nothing specifies that it only works with Kenseijin levels. Also since we're discussing general balance, what does putting 90% of your XP into your sword do, other than slow down leveling? Also, you included several Epic level feats in the bonus feat list. Are you planning to let non-epic characters take epic level feats?--[[User:Badger|Badger]] 00:33, 15 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::Unless you plan to use something like the Rogue bonus feat trick (ignoring prereqs), you couldn't possibly take any Epic feats anyway. More importantly, a fighter with more hp is still a fighter (i.e. usually not that good), especially when a DM with any brains would pit you against something that doesn't need to deal damage to shit on your face. It has the same weakness as every other class that has the potential for loads of hit points: it's one failed save away from being dead. Essentially, the high hit points are irrelevant, since the class is weak enough that no reasonably leveled opponent will bother with it anyway. Pit it against anything with good SLA's and this class is screwed. Overpowered? Not likely. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 23:40, 16 July 2010 (UTC)</div>ThunderGod Cidhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Kenseijin_(3.5e_Class)&diff=481694Talk:Kenseijin (3.5e Class)2010-07-16T23:40:59Z<p>ThunderGod Cid: /* Balance */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Balance ==<br />
<br />
lolwut? extra hit die is bad. really bad. over the top munchkin bad. --[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 01:24, 14 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Whoa yeah, either I'm misreading this, or at level 3 you have 9d10 hp (assuming you have 16 WIS). Also, your saves need to be normalized. 10/10/15 is not a normal progression, they must be either 6 or 12 at level 20. --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 02:29, 14 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::So wait... at level 20 with 20 wisdom you would have 120d10 health? Huh, maybe my DM will let me play this class in my next adventure... ''':P''' --[[User:Vrail|Vrail]] 04:47, 14 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::I added [[Template:Needsbalance]]. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 17:39, 14 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::As is, the HD doesn't do that much for you if you go only with this class; it just prevents it from sucking more since all you get are bonus feats (I honestly cannot tell what the Sword Bearer does at all). It doesn't even really put it above a fighter, since even the fighter gets full BAB and more bonus feats. In, the end, this class by itself just grants HP, and that's it. It's dippable to a dangerous extreme (I can just imagine a cleric with a billion HD and persisted divine power), but it's not that big a deal if it can't be applied to other class levels. That being said, it's not really that good of an idea, either.<br />
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::::Also, way to rate your own class, man. Try to do it properly next time (because it only goes up to 5/5). - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 19:04, 14 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::::Using feats for HP the fighter cannot attain this with any regard. Seems overpowered to me as such. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:42, 14 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::::As far as I can tell, you take a 1 level dip to get the exponential HD class ability and then never look back. Nothing specifies that it only works with Kenseijin levels. Also since we're discussing general balance, what does putting 90% of your XP into your sword do, other than slow down leveling? Also, you included several Epic level feats in the bonus feat list. Are you planning to let non-epic characters take epic level feats?--[[User:Badger|Badger]] 00:33, 15 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::::Unless you plan to use something like the Rogue bonus feat trick (ignoring prereqs), you couldn't possibly take any Epic feats anyway. More importantly, a fighter with more hp is still a fighter (i.e. usually not that good), especially when a DM with any brains would pit you against something that doesn't need to deal damage to shit on your face. It has the same weakness as every other class that has the potential for loads of hit points: it's one failed save away from being dead. Essentially, the high hit points are irrelevant, since the class is weak enough that no reasonably leveled opponent will bother with it anyway. Pit it against anything with good SLA's and this class is screwed. Overpowered? Not likely. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 23:40, 16 July 2010 (UTC)</div>ThunderGod Cidhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Kenseijin_(3.5e_Class)&diff=480866Talk:Kenseijin (3.5e Class)2010-07-14T19:04:28Z<p>ThunderGod Cid: /* Balance */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Balance ==<br />
<br />
lolwut? extra hit die is bad. really bad. over the top munchkin bad. --[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 01:24, 14 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Whoa yeah, either I'm misreading this, or at level 3 you have 9d10 hp (assuming you have 16 WIS). Also, your saves need to be normalized. 10/10/15 is not a normal progression, they must be either 6 or 12 at level 20. --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 02:29, 14 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::So wait... at level 20 with 20 wisdom you would have 120d10 health? Huh, maybe my DM will let me play this class in my next adventure... ''':P''' --[[User:Vrail|Vrail]] 04:47, 14 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::I added [[Template:Needsbalance]]. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 17:39, 14 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::As is, the HD doesn't do that much for you if you go only with this class; it just prevents it from sucking more since all you get are bonus feats (I honestly cannot tell what the Sword Bearer does at all). It doesn't even really put it above a fighter, since even the fighter gets full BAB and more bonus feats. In, the end, this class by itself just grants HP, and that's it. It's dippable to a dangerous extreme (I can just imagine a cleric with a billion HD and persisted divine power), but it's not that big a deal if it can't be applied to other class levels. That being said, it's not really that good of an idea, either.<br />
<br />
::::Also, way to rate your own class, man. Try to do it properly next time (because it only goes up to 5/5). - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 19:04, 14 July 2010 (UTC)</div>ThunderGod Cidhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Barbarian,_Tome_(3.5e_Class)&diff=479245Talk:Barbarian, Tome (3.5e Class)2010-07-06T13:51:38Z<p>ThunderGod Cid: /* Rating */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Additional Namespace Tag?==<br />
<br />
I don't see a Barbarian (DnD Class) page, so why not put this there instead? I haven't been putting those sorts of tags on any of the other classes. Also, don't forget the in-page links for the class features. [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] 23:05, 12 November 2008 (MST)<br />
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:I think that classes like this are better of being like this: "Barbarian, Races of War (DnD Class)" PS: Still the ID but no bad looking double brackets... --[[User:Sabre070|Sabre070]] 23:33, 12 November 2008 (MST)<br />
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::I'm trying to figure out the in-page links...And, yeah, makes sense. I was hoping that with 3 or 4 variants of classes running around, putting 'Races of War' on this would help clarify it. And you're quite right, the commas are better.[[User:Genowhirl|Genowhirl]] 23:37, 12 November 2008 (MST)<br />
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== Rating == <br />
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'''Power - 1/5''' I give this class a 1 out of 5 because it is a very good idea, however, you completely disregarged any rules on class creation. I personally would make someone take an ECL adjustment to be this class. You gave the Barbarian more powerful abilites and removed his restrictions. You might want to consider looking up the class construction point system, and using that to build the class. --[[User:67.182.193.168|67.182.193.168]] 02:18, 27 December 2008 (MST)<br />
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'''Wording - 3/5''' I give this class a 3 out of 5 because The wording was fine, just one typo with the Base Attack Bonus. You forgot to reduce the third and fouth attacks. --[[User:67.182.193.168|67.182.193.168]] 02:18, 27 December 2008 (MST)<br />
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'''[[Help:Standards and Formatting (DnD Guideline)|Formatting]] - 5/5''' I give this class a 5 out of 5 because the formatting was perfectly fine. --[[User:67.182.193.168|67.182.193.168]] 02:18, 27 December 2008 (MST)<br />
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'''Flavor - 4/5''' I give this class a 4 out of 5 because you did rather well at taking the standard barbarian and giving him a unique flare. --[[User:67.182.193.168|67.182.193.168]] 02:18, 27 December 2008 (MST)<br />
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:Try playing it. This was created on variant rules designed to even things up a little, on the objective evidence that the current rules are uneven. And, in fact, it follows some specific rules--the main one being that if you're level 10, you should be able to win, by some means, against about half the challenges of CR 10, out of a variety of scenarios (small groups, big bruisers, magic-users, big groups, traps, etc.) And the same applies to all other levels, from 1 to 20. Barbarians are classically encouraged to run screaming bloody murder and hit stuff very hard--but when they try it against monsters past level 7 or so, they're the ones who get murderized, unless the Barbarian becomes a one-trick pony hyperfocused in some combat maneuver or another. Therefore, some adjustment needs to be made so they can Rage, stab the enemy in the face, and actually survive. Even the BAB is thought out--on the basis that taking a -10 and -15 penalty to attacks is just a pile of stupid, considering you'll probably only be able to hit on a natural 20. Check out [[Races of War (3.5e Sourcebook)]] for the rationale and further details. -- [[User:Genowhirl|Genowhirl]] 02:32, 27 December 2008 (MST)<br />
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::'''Follow-up:''' I asked around about the CC point system. The answers I got were not that encouraging. As near as I can make out, the point values are arbitrarily assigned according to the value they ''should have'' in the WotC designer's minds, without reference to the what the rules they wrote actually meant, especially in regards re charging and '''trying''' to stab in the face. In other words, this point system is a big pile of randomness and therefore of only accidental use. The only way it could be relevant is if monsters likewise are constructed from a similar point system, scaling by CR. Since that isn't the case, I reject it utterly. -- [[User:Genowhirl|Genowhirl]] 18:30, 27 December 2008 (MST)<br />
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:::Third and fourth Attacks do not reduce Base Attack Bonus. This is meant to take into account gameplay past level 10, where WoTC didn't properly playtest their rules. It's not so much a typo as a re-write of how BaB works. Genowhirl mentions this, but I didn't realize until reading his entries in more detail.<br />
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::::And the real kicker is, I didn't even write this class. This was written by the infamous Frank Trollman and Keith. I just think it's good enough, it deserves to be on the wiki. -- [[User:Genowhirl|Genowhirl]] 09:56, 29 December 2008 (MST)<br />
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==O Mighty Moderators and Administrators==<br />
Wilt thou find in thy heart to lock this page to the current version, which I just reverted it to? Someone did some drastic changes, and seeing as how this class came from an already-complete document and is not actually a work in progress, I'm trying to keep it matching the original document. -- [[User:Genowhirl|Genowhirl]] 09:19, 10 January 2009 (MST)<br />
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== Rating == <br />
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<s>'''Power - 1/5''' I give this class a 1 out of 5 because it's utterly broken. I've read some of the Races of War pages and have seen the author's criticisms of a variety of 3.5e systems, but Rage Dice, Watched by the Totems, Primal Assault, Fast Healing, and especially One with the Beast, combine to make this class incredibly powerful, more powerful I'm certain than other characters of the same class level and probably more than strong enough to go a lot better than 50/50 with CR 19 monsters.</s> --[[User:Jota|Jota]] 09:43, 10 January 2009 (MST)<br />
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::Stricken following the acquisition of further knowledge. -- [[User:Jota|Jota]] 20:24, 5 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:The RoW Barbarian has one trick--making a frontal assault. This is a very poor thing to do, tactically and mechanically. Another F&K design point is, "if you're doing something inherently substandard, you'd better be damn good at it". So they made the Barbarian very, very good at the thing people seem to expect Barbarians to do--make full attacks. Anyway, all but one of the SRD CR 19 monsters are dragons, and, as far as I can tell, all of them have HP ''at least'' in the mid-300's, which means some substantial form of bonus damage is in order to make sure the enemies actually notice that you're hitting them. They also seem to have good Fort saves and outrageous Con scores, so they've got a good chance of passing the fort save versus stunning from Great Blows. They're also big and strong, so they could hypothetically grapple the Barbarian to death. Further on the monster's side, all but the behemoth Girallon can fly, so the Barbarian either needs some means of flight or a good bow--and he doesn't get Rage Dice when he's using a bow. And to cap it all off, Level 19 is "Deputy Mayor of Crazytown". The game doesn't even make sense at this point, because there's effects like Gate which are found on monsters a few CRs lower. If you want an idea of a class's balance for levels people can expect to actually see, try playing the same-game test at levels 5, 7, 10, 13, and 15. -- [[User:Genowhirl|Genowhirl]] 10:12, 10 January 2009 (MST)<br />
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:What about a returning weapon? I'd have to assume a nigh epic character will know his weakness and takes steps to minimize them (even a Barbarian). -- [[User:Jota|Jota]] 13:29, 10 January 2009 (MST)<br />
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::I just noticed the claim that it's more powerful than other characters of the same level. How shall I put this...? The RoW Fighter gets enough tactical tricks that he can shut down a simple, straight-forward attack. The RoW Samurai wins one-on-one combat if he chooses to go nova. Full spellcasters have so many possible tricks and ways to gyp people and monsters, it's not funny (See [[Spells That Fvcking Kill People (DnD Other)]]). The Rogue is, well, the Rogue. This variant of the Barbarian, though, is simple and easy to play. If you notice, the Rage Dice only works with standard and full attacks, and ''maybe'' AoO's granted by BAB. So you can't Whirlwind, and I'm told you can't double your damage with TWF. The Barbarian, rather than neutralizing his enemies with an endless series of tactical conditions, or flat-out splitting them in half, or throwing down a couple of spells which can completely remove an group of enemies from combat, goes right up to one enemy and hits it very hard a few times. I'm sure one can see the problems with this approach. All of the abilities in here are designed to help cope with those problems, and give you a melee fighter who's easy to play and has a decent chance of living through the day. -- [[User:Genowhirl|Genowhirl]] 12:43, 10 January 2009 (MST)<br />
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:::I just think immunity to magic (since that really is what is it) is really too strong. He'll own even a fighter in close range combat and he'll close quick enough that it would be difficult to keep him at a distance. I'll double check the other Races of War classes before I say anymore, but I'll stand by what I said for now. -- [[User:Jota|Jota]] 13:29, 10 January 2009 (MST)<br />
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:::: *Immunity to magic spells that have spell resistance. --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 07:39, 7 May 2009 (MDT)<br />
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:::::And are we talking about the RoW fighter, or the WoTC Fighter?<br />
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== Rating ==<br />
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'''Power - 4/5''' I give this class a 4 out of 5 because, at first glance, this class appears RIDICULOUSLY overpowered, even by Frank & K standards. Though, after giving the class a good once over, most of the things that I had thought would put it far over the top had massive restrictions on them (such as the fast healing), and so that got it increased in my mind. Though, looking at the class as it is, the way the abilities fit together just doesn't rest well in my mind, and so, I have given this class the rating it has. &rarr; [[User:Rithaniel|<span style=color:Gray; -moz-border-radius-topleft:25px; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:20px">Rith</span>]]<sup> [[User talk:Rithaniel|<span style=color:black; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:20px; -moz-border-radius-topleft:20px">(talk)</span>]]</sup> 22:43, 6 May 2009 (MDT)<br />
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'''Wording - 4/5''' I give this class a 4 out of 5 because while all of the class features are easily understood and comprehensive, the strange BAB progression is never explained (I personally know it's from races of war, but others wouldn't, and so would look at it and say, "whuh?"). &rarr; [[User:Rithaniel|<span style=color:Gray; -moz-border-radius-topleft:25px; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:20px">Rith</span>]]<sup> [[User talk:Rithaniel|<span style=color:black; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:20px; -moz-border-radius-topleft:20px">(talk)</span>]]</sup> 22:43, 6 May 2009 (MDT)<br />
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::Basically it is because with the third and fourth attack, hitting anything is nigh impossible. And besides, why do you even get those attacks if you just suck at them? The BAB reworks is designed to make full attacks actually hit stuff. --[[User:T G Geko|T G Geko]] 14:05, 5 June 2009 (MDT)<br />
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'''[[Help:Standards and Formatting (DnD Guideline)|Formatting]] - 3/5''' I give this class a 3 out of 5 because massive portions of the preload are missing, though, interwiki linking is decently comprehensive. &rarr; [[User:Rithaniel|<span style=color:Gray; -moz-border-radius-topleft:25px; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:20px">Rith</span>]]<sup> [[User talk:Rithaniel|<span style=color:black; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:20px; -moz-border-radius-topleft:20px">(talk)</span>]]</sup> 22:43, 6 May 2009 (MDT)<br />
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'''Flavor - 5/5''' I give this class a 5 out of 5 because The primal assualt ability made me smile, it's really a clever idea to thow onto the barabarian. &rarr; [[User:Rithaniel|<span style=color:Gray; -moz-border-radius-topleft:25px; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:20px">Rith</span>]]<sup> [[User talk:Rithaniel|<span style=color:black; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:20px; -moz-border-radius-topleft:20px">(talk)</span>]]</sup> 22:43, 6 May 2009 (MDT)<br />
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:I sorta like One With The Beast, just for the name and implications of it. I aspire to playing a Tome Barbarian to level 19... --[[User:Genowhirl|Genowhirl]] 23:31, 6 May 2009 (MDT)<br />
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::Most of this class I like, but Fast Healing still seems a bit much for me. The notion that you can go right back up to full health in a few rounds or less? Personally, I'd cap how much fast healing would heal at about 50 to 75% of full health, or even better have a "lasting damage" mechanic similar to the one they use in Ninja Gaiden II (XBox 360). That said, I'm sure Frank and K have their reasons. -- [[User:Mythos Specialist|Mythos]] 11:42, 20 June 2009 (MDT)<br />
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:::The reasons are basically twofold. First, they assume out of combat healing is essentially limitless and free. With wands of cure light wounds, being able to rest whenever you want, etc, out of combat healing just doesn't matter. In combat, this provides a good reason not to rage all the time. [[User:Dragon Child|Dragon Child]] 13:59, 20 June 2009 (MDT)<br />
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::::All well and good, but Fast Healing 20 is a bit hard to chew on. Healing 20 HP a round out of combat may not be invincibility, but it comes close. At least without the "lasting damage" mechanic, where half the damage from critical hits can at least creep up on you over time. -- [[User:Mythos Specialist|Mythos]] 19:54, 21 June 2009 (MDT)<br />
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:::::That's at level 20. At level 20, your characters are GODS. At level 20, the wizard and cleric are stronger than superman and Moses combined. And your concern is that the barbarian can... swim through lava a bit better, but still not that well? Recover from his wounds? While his party members are conjuring biblical plagues, forcing archdemons to bend to their will, and so on? Past level 3 or so, out of combat healing is pretty much free and infinite, you'll go into each encounter with full HP. You die from a burst of damage or a save or die effect in one combat, not from being worn down HP wise. [[User:Dragon Child|Dragon Child]] 20:10, 21 June 2009 (MDT)<br />
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<br />
:(Reverting to indentation). Also, the fast healing is basically there to keep the Barbarian alive because his shtick is doing a very unoptimal thing--running up and full-attacking, again and again. Often against monsters bigger and stronger than he is. He'll take a lot of hits, but the Fast Healing sees to it that he's not draining the party's resources too much. Even Wands of CLW can take a chunk out of your money if you keep buying them--and they take a lot of time for a cleric. One of F&K's design principles is that if a class's thing is really subpar compared to other options, it needs some help. You might not agree with that, but that's the reason why the Assassin's Death Attack does better damage than Fireball and why the Barbarian's abilities look so impressive. The Assassin is doing Weapon + (Level + 2)d6 damage to one target, every other round (dice and circumstances willing) because there are effects which can do (Level)d6 to multiple targets, and force the ''targets'' to succeed on a dice roll or take damage. Likewise, the Barbarian gets some very impressive physical abilities BECAUSE he's trying to hit something that's both bigger and stronger and bound to have an opinion about it. If a Barbarian's not taking hits, he's not doing it right. And some of those hits are from creatures with outrageous sizes and strength scores, and would make the cleric eat through a lot of wands or spells in a hurry. So the Barbarian can recover from them on his own if he isn't actually killed. That said, if you want to use the class, feel free to use it with whatever caveats you want. --[[User:Genowhirl|Genowhirl]] 21:48, 21 June 2009 (MDT)<br />
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Fair enough. -- [[User:Mythos Specialist|Mythos]] 15:21, 24 June 2009 (MDT)<br />
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== Saves ==<br />
By level 5 this class is only ever making FORT saves (while raging). Dodge a fireball? Fort save. Resist a charm? Fort save. Does this not seem a little strong to anyone else? Barbarians are almost constantly raging, so isn't this pretty much giving them 2 epic feats by level 5 (Fort equivalents of Dex will and Dex fort)? With the exceptions of traps and surprises, would he ever make any other sort of save? I'm sure there is some detail I'm missing here, can someone tell me what I've overlooked? Or am I just overestimating the power of those abilities?--[[User:Badger|Badger]] 15:05, 7 August 2009 (MDT)<br />
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:They aren't raging in the first round of combat. [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] 16:10, 7 August 2009 (MDT)<br />
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::Until level 19. -- [[User:Jota|Jota]] 18:38, 7 August 2009 (MDT)<br />
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:::Well, yeah, there is that. But that's level 19. [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] 18:46, 7 August 2009 (MDT)<br />
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::::I know. I'm just saying. -- [[User:Jota|Jota]] 18:59, 7 August 2009 (MDT)<br />
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== Rating == <br />
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'''Power - 6/5''' I give this class a 6 out of 5 because I personnaly think it's a bit overpowered... The rage dice are something you can't just put without removing anything... The fast healing is good. And for the higher level powers, it's a bit normal they're pretty strong. --[[Special:Contributions/24.201.232.83|24.201.232.83]] 20:02, 18 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:The Barbarian basically gets everything it needs in-class. It's meant as something simple for a newbie to play--something that doesn't require a lot of system mastery to keep up with, and doesn't have any hidden traps which can kill your character. The Barbarian, optimization means, "Increase your Con score and Fort saves" and "get some extra AC". Everything it has, it has for a reason. Even the Fast Healing is designed so a Barbarian won't die from doing what they do (full-attacking monsters as close as they are, and therefore being subject to some serious pain) while NOT sucking the party's healer dry. --[[User:Genowhirl|Genowhirl]] 21:57, 18 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Rating == <br />
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'''Power - 2/5''' I give this class a 2 out of 5 because There are far too many abilities granted a far too early a stage in the game for this to be a balanced character class. Just looking at what the character receives while raging at level 1 is ridiculous. --[[User:Ewjones|Ewjones]] 18:27, 5 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:I honestly have to disagree on just about all those points. Firstly, if you actually read the Races of War book that this comes from you would know that this barbarian is intended to have as much contribution to a party as a well-played wizard (which is how people are supposed to play wizards instead of just chucking fireballs and lightning bolts). Thus, it is obviously going to look overpowered compared to the SRD Barbarian which, and I don't think I'm putting this too bluntly, sucks major donkey balls. At the very least, it does when compared to the wizard in the same party.<br />
<br />
:Secondly, the differences in rage at 1st level between the SRD Barbarian and this barbarian are not actually all that big, except perhaps for the extended duration and removal of the post-rage fatigue (which I love because I think those things make the SRD Barbarian suck). This gives a +2 bonus to attack and damage, which at 1st level is equal to the +4 bonus to Strength given by the SRD barbarian and might even be inferior since the SRD version can use a two-handed weapon to get the damage bonus from the +4 Strength to be at least +3 at level 1. The +2 to all saves is a little better than the +4 bonus to Will from the SRD Barbarian, but still falls into basically the same category. Same with the penalty to Armor Class. The DR might look powerful, but since it only applies when raging it isn't that much more powerful than the temporary hit points provided by the Constitution bonus from the SRD Barbarian (that is, assuming your Con is reasonable in the first place). After that, Combat Healing doesn't apply when raging, so you're basically in the same boat as the SRD Barbarian except you aren't a once-a-day liability.<br />
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:I'm sure that someone else made a similar argument earlier in this talk page, but I was too lazy to look. In conclusion, it's really not that bad. God forbid that someone made a barbarian that could actually do stuff. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 13:51, 6 July 2010 (UTC) <br />
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'''Wording - 4/5''' I give this class a 4 out of 5 because Too much of the descriptive text is written in the second person, addressing the reader. --[[User:Ewjones|Ewjones]] 18:27, 5 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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'''[[Help:Standards and Formatting (DnD Guideline)|Formatting]] - 4/5''' I give this class a 4 out of 5 because The formatting seems fairly decent, but could be areas of improvement. --[[User:Ewjones|Ewjones]] 18:27, 5 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:I more or less agree, I suppose. I don't know if it's just me, but the class feature tables no longer have any frame and I think it looks fugly as hell. It's not exclusive to this page, though, so I wouldn't condemn it for that reason. F&K never did bother with fluff text, either, so it's missing some things right off the bat. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 13:51, 6 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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'''Flavor - 3/5''' I give this class a 3 out of 5 because This class seems to simply be an overpowered version of the barbarian in the 3.5 player's handbook. --[[User:Ewjones|Ewjones]] 18:27, 5 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:See above argument(s). - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 13:51, 6 July 2010 (UTC)</div>ThunderGod Cidhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Lizardfolk,_Spikeback_(3.5e_Race)&diff=477694Talk:Lizardfolk, Spikeback (3.5e Race)2010-06-26T15:46:36Z<p>ThunderGod Cid: </p>
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<div>You are aware there are no facing rules in D&D? Horse is a 10X10 cube due to no facing, so how do you expect this thing to work?<br />
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:One word: "flanking." Then again, this race should probably (regrettably, since LA sucks) have some LA attached, since you have an ability that passively discourages flanking, which gives a huge edge against rogues and basically anyone who can benefit from a flanking bonus (which is basically everything). - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 15:46, 26 June 2010 (UTC)</div>ThunderGod Cidhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Blackstone_Knight_(3.5e_Class)&diff=457800Blackstone Knight (3.5e Class)2010-02-22T22:05:58Z<p>ThunderGod Cid: Undo revision 457726 by 75.117.160.236 (Talk) unathorized IP edit</p>
<hr />
<div>{{DnD Base Class Infobox<br />
|img=Black knight sun.jpg<br />
|imgloc=<br />
|imgsize=320px<br />
|imgcaption=<br />
|rating_power=3<br />
|raters_power=1<br />
|rating_wording=4<br />
|raters_wording=1<br />
|rating_formatting=4<br />
|raters_formatting=1<br />
|rating_flavor=3<br />
|raters_flavor=1<br />
|authors=<br />
|datecreated=<br />
|adopters=[[User:ThunderGod Cid|ThunderGod Cid]]<br />
|dateadopted=March 30, 2009<br />
|status=Done except for NPC<br />
|editing= Post suggestions on discussion page<br />
|type=Combat-Focused<br />
|desc=A more defensive variant of the [[Hellfire Knight (DnD Class)|Hellfire Knight]], the blackstone knight uses fiendish energy to morph his own body into a powerful combination of rock, metal, and flesh.<br />
}}<br />
<br />
==Blackstone Knight==<br />
<br />
The blackstone knight is very similar to the [[Hellfire Knight (DnD Class)|hellfire knight]]; both give up hit points to channel fiendish energy through their bodies, entering a state in which they gain great power for short periods. Where the hellfire knight manifests his powers as hellfire, however, the blackstone knight undergoes a transformation that turns his body into an amalgam of flesh, rock and metal.<br />
<br />
Extremely adept in the use of oversized weapons, a blackstone knight wades into the thick of battle, heavily armed and armored, and unleashes his catastrophic wrath upon his opponents. <br />
<br />
===Making a Blackstone Knight===<br />
<br />
Due to their lack of access to shields and the nature of their abilities, heavy armor is almost essential for a blackstone knight's survival. <br />
<br />
'''Abilities:''' [[Strength]] is the blackstone knight's forte, as well as [[Constitution]], for both of these increase his survivability. [[Charisma]] is his most important ability, however, for it affects the DC's of his abilities. <br />
<br />
'''Races:''' Like that of the hellfire knight, the path of the blackstone knight is often sought by those who seek raw power regardless of the consequences. The power of fiends is extremely dangerous, but many humans are willing to bet on the risk in search of the reward. Other races, particularly those that favor some form of fiendish cult, also create blackstone knights.<br />
<br />
'''Alignment:''' Any non-good. A good aligned character makes an unsuitable conduit for the evil power of the Lower Planes. <br />
<br />
'''Starting Gold:''' As Fighter. <br />
<br />
'''Starting Age: Moderate''' <br />
<br />
{| class="{{d20}}"<br />
|+<br />
<div>{{#anc:Table: The Blackstone Knight}}</div><br />
Hit Die: d10<br />
|-<br />
! rowspan="2" | Level<br />
! rowspan="2" | [[BAB|Base<br/>Attack Bonus]]<br />
! colspan="3" | [[SRD:Saving Throw|Saving Throw]]s<br />
! rowspan="2" | Special<br />
! rowspan="2" | Demonic Rush<br>Strength Bonus<br />
|-<br />
! [[SRD:Saving Throw#Fortitude|Fort]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Reflex|Ref]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Will|Will]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|1st|| class="left" | +1 || +2 || +0 || +0<br />
| class="left" | [[#Aura of Evil|Aura of Evil]], [[#Power of the Body|Power of the Body]], [[#Bigger Is Better|Bigger Is Better]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|2nd|| class="left" | +2 || +3 || +0 || +0<br />
| class="left" | [[#Demonic Rush|Demonic Rush]]<br />
| +2<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|3rd|| class="left" | +3 || +3 || +1 || +1<br />
| class="left" | [[#Mighty Swing|Mighty Swing]], [[#Damage Reduction|Damage Reduction 1/-]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|4th||class="left" | +4 || +4 || +1 || +1<br />
| class="left" | [[#Demonic Growth|Demonic Growth]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|5th||class="left" | +5 || +4 || +1 || +1<br />
| class="left" | <br />
| +4<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|6th||class="left" | +6/+1 || +5 || +2 || +2<br />
| class="left" | [[#Size Matters|Size Matters]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|7th||class="left" | +7/+2 || +5 || +2 || +2<br />
| class="left" | [[#Brimstone Body|Brimstone Body]], [[#Damage Reduction|Damage Reduction 2/-]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|8th||class="left" | +8/+3 || +6 || +2 || +2<br />
| class="left" | [[#Dire Swing|Dire Swing]]<br />
| +6<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|9th||class="left" | +9/+4 || +6 || +3 || +3<br />
| class="left" | [[#Plutonic Pillar|Plutonic Pillar]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|10th||class="left" | +10/+5 || +7 || +3 || +3<br />
| class="left" | [[#Second Skin|Second Skin]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|11th||class="left" | +11/+6/+1 || +7 || +3 || +3<br />
| class="left" | [[#Damage Reduction|Damage Reduction 3/-]]<br />
| +8<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|12th||class="left" | +12/+7/+2 || +8 || +4 || +4<br />
| class="left" | [[#The Devil's Mirror|The Devil’s Mirror]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|13th||class="left" | +13/+8/+3 || +8 || +4 || +4<br />
| class="left" | [[#Plutonic Prison|Plutonic Prison]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|14th||class="left" | +14/+9/+4 || +9 || +4 || +4<br />
| class="left" | <br />
| +10<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|15th||class="left" | +15/+10/+5 || +9 || +5 || +5<br />
| class="left" | [[#Damage Reduction|Damage Reduction 4/-]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|16th||class="left" | +16/+11/+6/+1 || +10 || +5 || +5<br />
| class="left" | [[#Stygian Steel|Stygian Steel]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|17th||class="left" | +17/+12/+7/+2 || +10 || +5 || +5<br />
| class="left" | <br />
| +12<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|18th||class="left" | +18/+13/+8/+3 || +11 || +6 || +6<br />
| class="left" | [[#Nilfheim|Nilfheim]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|19th||class="left" | +19/+14/+9/+4 || +11 || +6 || +6<br />
| class="left" | [[#Damage Reduction|Damage Reduction 5/-]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|20th||class="left" | +20/+15/+10/+5 || +12 || +6 || +6<br />
| class="left" | [[#Harbinger|Harbinger]]<br />
| +14<br />
|-<br />
| colspan="42" class="skill" |<br />
'''Class Skills 2 + [[SRD:Intelligence|Int]] modifier per level, &times;4 at 1st level)'''<br/><br />
[[SRD: Bluff Skill|Bluff]] ([[SRD:Charisma|Cha]]), [[SRD:Climb Skill|Climb]] ([[SRD:Strength|Str]]), [[SRD:Craft Skill|Craft]] ([[SRD:Intelligence|Int]]), [[SRD:Handle Animal Skill|Handle Animal]] ([[SRD:Charisma|Cha]]), [[SRD:Intimidate Skill|Intimidate]] ([[SRD:Charisma|Cha]]), [[SRD:Jump Skill|Jump]] ([[SRD:Strength|Str]]), [[SRD:Knowledge Skill|Knowledge (The Planes)]] ([[SRD:Intelligence|Int]]), [[SRD:Ride Skill|Ride]] ([[SRD:Dexterity|Dex]]), [[SRD:Survival Skill|Survival]] ([[SRD:Wisdom|Wis]]), [[SRD:Swim Skill|Swim]] ([[SRD:Strength|Str]]).<br />
|}<br />
<br />
====Class Features====<br />
All of the following are class features of the blackstone knight.<br />
<br />
'''Weapon and Armor Proficiency:''' A blackstone knight is automatically proficient with all simple and martial weapons. He is also proficient with all forms of armor, but not shields.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Aura of Evil}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' The power of a blackstone knight’s aura of evil (see detect evil) is equal to his blackstone knight level. To such a spell, the blackstone knight always registers as evil regardless of his true alignment.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Power of the Body}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' A blackstone knight is extremely hardy, able to withstand a great deal of punishment before going down. He gains maximum hit points for every level of blackstone knight that he takes. This does not apply to any levels from any other classes or racial Hit Die.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Bigger is Better}}:''' A blackstone knight specializes in the use of the largest weapon possible. He gains Monkey Grip ([[Complete Warrior]]) as a bonus feat at 1st level, but its effects only allow him to use a larger than normal weapon in two hands. For example, a blackstone knight can wield a Huge greatsword in two hands, but cannot use a Large greatsword in one hand if his size does not normally allow him to do so.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Demonic Rush}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' Starting at second level, the blackstone knight can channel the energy of the Lower Planes through his body, sacrificing his health for temporary power. While in a demonic rush, the blackstone knight gains a bonus to Strength (see the table) and a +4 bonus on all saving throws, but takes 1d4 damage per round he stays in the rush as the energy causes his body to break down at an absurdly rapid pace. This damage cannot be countered by any form of damage resistance. A blackstone knight can use a demonic rush for a number of rounds per day equal to 10 + his blackstone knight level, and these rounds need not be consecutive. Starting or ending a demonic rush is a move-equivalent action. <br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Mighty Swing}}:''' A blackstone knight gains the [[Power Attack]] as a bonus feat at 3rd level, even if he does not meet the prerequisites. Not only can the blackstone knight reduce his base attack bonus, but he can also sacrifice his Armor Class to add even more damage to his attacks. The ratio for sacrificing Armor Class is the same as using his base attack bonus. <br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Damage Reduction}}:''' Whatever doesn’t kill you only makes you stronger. The blackstone knight gains [[damage reduction]] 1/- at third level, and this value increases by 1 every four levels up to 5/-. <br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Demonic Growth}}:''' At fourth level, a blackstone knight in a demonic rush can sacrifice 1d4 additional hit points to replicate the effects of an ''[[enlarge person]]'' spell for the duration of the current demonic rush. All of the normal procedures for the spell are followed, but this ability cannot be countered by ''[[reduce person]]'' or made permanent. <br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Size Matters}}:''' When wielding a Large size or larger weapon, a blackstone knight applies 1 ½ times his Strength bonus to damage rolls for one-handed melee attacks. If he wields the weapon in two hands, he applies double his Strength bonus to damage.<br />
<br />
'''''{{#anc:Brimstone Body}}'' ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Spell-Like|Sp]]):''' At the cost of 1d6 hit points, a 7th level blackstone knight can cover his body in a tough, red/black abyssal rock, granting him the effects of a stoneskin spell either until it absorbs the maximum amount of damage or for the duration of his current demonic rush.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Dire Swing}}:''' A blackstone knight is an expert at wielding a weapon with power by eighth level. He now gains a +3 bonus to damage for every 2 points of base attack bonus or Armor Class he gives up.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Plutonic Pillar}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Supernatural|Su]]):''' The blackstone knight gains a potent offensive weapon at 9th level, when he gains the ability to call a powerful adamantine spike from below ground during a demonic rush at the cost of 1d8 hit points. This column can attack any foe in contact with the ground within a radius of 10 feet per blackstone knight level, dealing 1d4 points of bludgeoning damage per level. The use of this ability is a standard action.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Second Skin}}:''' At 10th level, the blackstone knight has become so accustomed to wearing heavy armor that even his suit’s weight is inconsequential to him. He no longer takes a penalty to his movement speed when wearing armor, and can run using his normal multiplier. Other armor penalties (such as armor check penalties) still apply.<br />
<br />
'''''{{#anc:The Devil's Mirror}}'' ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Spell-Like|Sp]]):''' At 12th level, the blackstone knight can use ''[[spell turning]]'' during a demonic rush when he gives up 1d10 hit points. The effect functions normally, with the blackstone knight rolling to determine how many spell levels are turned.<br />
<br />
'''''{{#anc:Plutonic Prison}}'' ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Spell-Like|Sp]]):''' At 13th level, the blackstone knight may encase an opponent in stone for 3d4 of his own hit points, replicating the ''[[flesh to stone]]'' spell. The knight has no capability of reversing this effect.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Stygian Steel}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Supernatural|Su]]):''' At 16th level, the blackstone knight can cover his body in solid metal (like the ''[[iron body]]'' spell) for self-defense. When he uses this ability, he takes 2d4 damage per round he maintains the transformation. This effect immediately ends when he stops his current demonic rush, but may be resumed freely during another rush.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Nilfheim}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Supernatural|Su]]):''' The blackstone knight can make the rock and metal around his body burst forth in an explosion of destructive force. At 18th level, a knight in a demonic rush may give up 4d4 hit points to deal 1d6 points of damage per level (maximum 20d6) to everything in a 50-foot radius around him. If the blackstone knight uses Nilfheim, his current demonic rush immediately ends, and he cannot use his demonic rush again for 24 hours. He is also treated as [[exhausted]] until he rests for 8 full hours.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Harbinger}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' At 20th level, the blackstone knight’s power to channel fiendish energy reaches its pinnacle. He may now use either of the plutonic abilities outside of his demonic rush. He gains the [[outsider]] type (with the native subtype).<br />
<br />
====Ex-Blackstone Knights====<br />
<br />
If a blackstone knight becomes of good alignment, he cannot channel the fiendish energies that grant him strength. He loses the ability to use his demonic rush and all associated abilities. These abilities are restored to him as soon as he reverts to a non-good alignment.<br />
<br />
====Epic Blackstone Knight====<br />
<br />
{| class="{{d20}}"<br />
|+ class="epic" |<br />
The Epic Blackstone Knight<br><br />
Hit Die: d10<br />
! Level !! Special !! Demonic Rush<br>Strength Bonus<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 21st || class="left" | [[#Bonus Feats|Bonus Feat]] || class="left" |<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 22nd || class="left" | || class="left" |<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 23rd || class="left" | || class="left" |+16 <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 24th || class="left" | [[#Bonus Feats|Bonus Feat]] || class="left" |<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 25th || class="left" | || class="left" |<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 26th || class="left" | || class="left" |+18<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 27th || class="left" | [[#Bonus Feats|Bonus Feat]] || class="left" |<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 28th || class="left" | || class="left" |<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 29th || class="left" | || class="left" |+20<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 30th || class="left" | [[#Bonus Feats|Bonus Feat]] || class="left" |<br />
|-<br />
| colspan="42" class="skill" |<br />
2 + [[SRD:Intelligence|Int]] modifier skill points per level.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
'''Demonic Rush:''' An epic level blackstone knight continues to gain daily rounds for his demonic rush, allowing him to use it for longer periods of time. He also gains an additional +2 bonus to [[Strength]] during a demonic rush every three levels.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc: Bonus Feats }}:''' The epic blackstone knight gains a bonus feat (selected from the list of epic hellfire knight bonus feats) at 21st level and every three levels after.<br />
<br />
''Epic Blackstone Knight Bonus Feat List:'' [[SRD:Armor Skin|Armor Skin]], [[SRD:Damage Reduction (Feat)|Damage Reduction]], [[SRD:Epic Speed|Epic Speed]], [[SRD:Epic Toughness|Epic Toughness]], [[SRD:Fast Healing|Fast Healing]], [[SRD:Great Charisma|Great Charisma]], [[SRD:Great Strength|Great Strength]], [[SRD:Superior Initiative|Superior Initiative]]<br />
<br />
====Human Blackstone Knight Starting Package====<br />
<br />
'''Weapons:''' [[Greataxe]].<br />
<br />
'''Skill Selection:''' Pick a number of skills equal to 4 + [[Int]] modifier.<br />
<br />
{| class="{{d20}}"<br />
|-<br />
! class="left" | Skill || Ranks || Ability || Armor<br/>Check<br/>Penalty<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| class="left" | Bluff || 4 || Cha || &mdash;<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| class="left" | Intimidate || 4 || Cha || &mdash;<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| class="left" | Jump || 4 || Str || &mdash;<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| class="left" | Survival || 2 || Wis || &mdash;<br />
|}<br />
<br />
'''Feat:''' [[Improved Initiative]]<br />
<br />
'''Bonus Feats:''' [[Weapon Focus]] ([[greataxe]])<br />
<br />
'''Gear:''' Full Plate, Standard Adventurer's gear.<br />
<br />
'''Gold:''' none<br />
<br />
===Campaign Information===<br />
<br />
====Playing a Blackstone Knight====<br />
<br />
'''Religion:''' As the carriers of unearthly demonic powers, blackstone knights are often (and sometimes unwillingly) tied with cults of such entities. It is rare that they venerate or even associate themselves with good dieties, but it is not unheard of.<br />
<br />
'''Other Classes:''' Blackstone knights associate with others much like hellfire knights; due to the self-damaging nature of their abilities, they highly value clerics or any similar class with healing abilities who can keep them alive and away from their damnation for as long as possible. But the defensive and enigmatic nature of a blackstone knight is not reflected in his hellfire knight kindred, and as a result they get along with others even more poorly. A rare partnership is a blackstone knight traveling with a hellfire knight; this is not out of a particular lack of desire, but rather because of the extreme rarity of both classes. When these pairings are formed, however, the result is usually a very formidable combat tandem. On the other hand, clashes between two knights of different alignment is not unheard of, and when the combatants are powerful their duels can last for hours, razing the landscape for miles around.<br />
<br />
'''Combat:''' With his powerful defensive capabilities and aptitude for large melee weapons, the blackstone knight makes a powerful front-line combatant even without hyis demonic rush. When he channels the power at his disposal, he becomes a powerful bastion of defense that can withstand all comers.<br />
<br />
'''Advancement:''' Just as the hellfire knights worship Mephistopheles (or some other hellfire-related entity), blackstone knights worship a figure that greatly reflects their own abilities: the Iron Lord Dispater. Blackstone knights of an evil alignment often become disciples of said devil lord, while others still usually revere gods of war, reveling in bloodshed.<br />
<br />
====Blackstone Knights in the World====<br />
<br />
{{quote|''Hell is the highest reward that the devil can offer you for being a servant of his.''|orig=Tartaros, human blackstone knight}}<br />
<br />
Due to their high level of combat effectiveness without the use of their fiendish abilties, most blackstone knights can pass as fighters to the unwitting observer. Anyone with the ability to ''[[detect evil]]'' or [[detect magic|magic]], however, will find that there is much more to them than meets the eye.<br />
<br />
'''Daily Life:''' The nomadic life of a sellsword is well suited to a blackstone knight, who prefers to never stay in one place for too long. They never accept permanent deals and leave whenever they feel they have attracted too much attention to maintain the concealment of their powers.<br />
<br />
'''Notables:''' Tartaros is an old and powerful blackstone knight (BsK 22) as well as the comrade of the hellfire knight Azazel. Despite his graying hair, his body is still that of a man is his prime, and the speed in which he moves when dressed in full plate armor astounds many of his opponents.<br />
<br />
'''Organizations:''' There is never a formal organization of the blackstone knights, as a large congregation would attract the attention of fanatical demon-killers who would jump at the opportunity to kill an alleged "half-fiend".<br />
<br />
'''NPC Reactions:''' Fear and awe follow the reticent and armored blackstone knights wherever they roam. Imposing even at first glance, a blackstone knight usually fails in all attempts to blend in.<br />
<br />
====Blackstone Knight Lore====<br />
<br />
Characters with ranks in [[Knowledge]] (the planes) can research blackstone knights to learn more about them. When a character makes a skill check, read or paraphrase the following, including information from lower DCs.<br />
<br />
{| class="{{d20}}"<br />
|+ [[Knowledge]] (the planes)<br />
! DC || class="left" | Result<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 5 || class="left" | Blackstone knights are offshoots of hellfire knights with the same ability to channel fiendish energies.<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 10 || class="left" | Many blackstone knights revere gods of war, and it is reflected in their militant, mercenary attitudes.<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 15 || class="left" | Blackstone knights are very defensive in nature; they wear heavy armor in battle to work in concert with their formidable transformation capabilities.<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 20 || class="left" | Among these transformations are the ability to change size and to cover the body in living stone or metal.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
====Blackstone Knights in the Game====<br />
<br />
Blackstone knights appear to be fighters to the untrained eye; to further this deception may try to behave in the same manner as their fighter counterparts. Most blackstone knights are swords-for-hire, and can be found wherever some grisly work needs to be done.<br />
<br />
'''Adaptation:''' Almost every campaign setting has some form of the Lower Planes. Blackstone knights channel the powers of the infernal beings who reside there into their own bodies.<br />
<br />
'''Sample Encounter:''' A 9th level chaotic neutral blackstone knight travels with a band of bloodthirsty mercenaries. He cares nothing for his comrades' lives and will not use his full power until they are all dead or he is at serious risk of being slain. <br />
<br />
''EL whatever:'' <-Encounter scenario and character info on sample NPC including stat block. The CR of the NPC is typically the same as the EL for the encounter.->.<br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
[[Category:DnD]]<br />
[[Category:3.5e]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Class]]<br />
[[Category:Base Class]]<br />
[[Category:Combat-Focused]]</div>ThunderGod Cidhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Blackstone_Knight_(3.5e_Class)&diff=457573Talk:Blackstone Knight (3.5e Class)2010-02-21T16:25:26Z<p>ThunderGod Cid: /* Rating */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Namespaces==<br />
<br />
Black Knight already existed and I discovered this stub hanging off in space. I moved it to "Blackened" so it existed. It's a stub, very messy. Who is the creator of this page? -- [[User:Eiji|Eiji]] 20:58, 2 October 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== Available for Adoption? ==<br />
<br />
Since no one has claimed this page (as far as I can tell), I was wondering if I could adopt it. At least to fix it up a bit, if not change the direction of the class. -[[User:ThunderGod Cid|ThunderGod Cid]] 18:59, 27 March 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:Yes, please adopt this article! It needs a lot of love, but there is potential. Good Luck T.G. Cid! --[[User:Ganteka|Ganteka]] 14:38, 28 March 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:: Unfortunately, I have no idea how I would go about adopting a page (I believe there's an official process). If anyone could give me directions on how to do so, it would be greatly appreciated. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|ThunderGod Cid]] 18:24, 30 March 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::: Just replace the author template with this:<br />
<br />
:::<nowiki>{{adopted Article</nowiki><br/><br />
:::<nowiki>|adopter_name=<!--User Name--></nowiki><br/><br />
:::<nowiki>|date_adopted=<!--Day Month Year--></nowiki><br/><br />
:::<nowiki>|status=<!--level of completion--></nowiki><br/><br />
:::<nowiki>}}</nowiki><br />
<br />
:::Bam, adopted article. --[[User:Ganteka|Ganteka]] 18:28, 30 March 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::Cool, thanks a lot. I've got a plan, but I'm going to respect the work of the original author and keep most of his ideas. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|ThunderGod Cid]] 20:06, 30 March 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::My god... it's gone from sucky to sexy! I like this! -- [[User:Eiji|Eiji]] 12:07, 23 May 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== Suggestions Plus Help? ==<br />
<br />
I'm at a little bit of a dilemma with this class. I want to keep the original author's ideas (at least the ones that are plausibly balanced for gameplay), but I also wanted to make this class somewhat like a defensive variant of my Hellfire Knight, with the same premise of sacrificing hit points for power. I would like to know what other people think should stay and go (aside from the free ability boosts, which are going to be deleted). I want to keep the concept of increasing size, but only for a short period of time similar to the effects of the ''[[enlarge person]]'' spell.<br />
<br />
Additionally, I was hoping to change the name to "Blackstone Knight" (Blackened Knight doesn't seem the most pleasing name to the ear, so I thought Blackstone might be an improvement that goes along with my new class better). I see that I can change it on this page, but that doesn't seem to affect how it looks on the list of classes. <br />
<br />
Help with either of these issues would be appreciated. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|ThunderGod Cid]] 17:05, 8 May 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:As far as the page name goes, there is the Move tab up at the top of the article, just click it and change the page's name to move it to a new page. Also, you can get rid of the old author template box now that you have the adopted article box on there. --[[User:Ganteka|Ganteka]] 17:18, 8 May 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== Rating == <br />
<br />
'''Power - 3/5''' I give this class a 3 out of 5. To be honest, the fact that almost -all- it's abilities sacrifice HP give this class a poor survival rating. Perhaps if it had a more suitable way to -restore- some of it's lost health on it's own, I would rate it higher, but I would fear for abusing such raw power in this class. --[[User:Avlindrel FallenTree|Avlindrel FallenTree]] 23:08, 16 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:Power of the Body (getting maximum hp for every level) was supposed to make giving up hit points for power somewhat viable. It basically ensures that even though you have yo give up hp, you have lots of it to lose. If that's not enough, perhaps something similar to the paladin's Lay on Hands? If you think that is appropriate, I would likely add it to the hellfire knight as well. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 19:23, 17 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
'''Wording - 4/5''' I give this class a 4 out of 5. I love the wording, and there isn't much to be confused by with the way you type things out. Other than the difficulty with the incorrect class-name in the Starting Package, this -would- earn a 5! --[[User:Avlindrel FallenTree|Avlindrel FallenTree]] 23:08, 16 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
: Didn't even notice that, so thanks for the catch. Fixed.<br />
<br />
'''[[Help:Standards and Formatting (DnD Guideline)|Formatting]] - 4/5''' I give this class a 4 out of 5. The formatting is simplistic, and easy to read without error. You haven't put anything too overt in there, and of course you haven't used the more difficult parts of formatting, but good job! --[[User:Avlindrel FallenTree|Avlindrel FallenTree]] 23:08, 16 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
'''Flavor - 3/5''' I give this class a 3 out of 5. Being honest, the flavor for the class is a little lacking. Perhaps you could elaborate on all the points where you just list the Hellfire Knight as an example? That, in my eyes, would greatly improve the class-page. --[[User:Avlindrel FallenTree|Avlindrel FallenTree]] 23:08, 16 July 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== Rating == <br />
<br />
'''Power - <<<5>>>/5''' I give this class a <<<5>>> out of 5 because <<<It doesnt need to be improved>>> --{{unsigned|189.98.170.232}}--{{unsigned|189.98.170.232}}<br />
<br />
'''Wording - <<<5>>>/5''' I give this class a <<<5>>> out of 5 because <<<Its fine.>>> --{{unsigned|189.98.170.232}}<br />
<br />
'''[[Help:Standards and Formatting (DnD Guideline)|Formatting]] - <<<Insert Your Rating Here>>>/5''' I give this class a <<<Insert Your Rating Here>>> out of 5 because <<<insert why you gave the rating and how to improve it>>> --{{unsigned|189.98.170.232}}<br />
<br />
'''Flavor - <<<Insert Your Rating Here>>>/5''' I give this class a <<<Insert Your Rating Here>>> out of 5 because <<<insert why you gave the rating and how to improve it>>> --{{unsigned|189.98.170.232}}<br />
<br />
:The above rating is vague and was added by an IP after the IP made several edits to the article. This particular IP has no other history here on the wiki. That being said, I would say that users should keep the possible conflict of interest and single purpose in mind when taking this rating into consideration. &nbsp;<small><span style="border: 1px solid black; -moz-border-radius:10px">[[User:Hooper|'''<span style="background-color:White; color:Black; -moz-border-radius-topleft:10px; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:10px"> Hooper </span>''']][[User talk:Hooper|<span style="background-color:Black; color:white; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:10px; -moz-border-radius-topleft:10px">&nbsp;&nbsp;talk&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|<span style="background-color:black; color:white">&nbsp;&nbsp;contribs&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|<span style="background-color:black; color:white; -moz-border-radius-bottomright:10px; -moz-border-radius-topright:10px">&nbsp;&nbsp;email&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]]</span></small> 23:37, 20 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::The IP's edits have been undone, since they were unauthorized and unwarranted. As such, I feel that this rating should be disregarded entirely on the basis of its context as well as the lack of justification. Since it hasn't been added to the page itself, I don't think that will be a problem. But the record has been cleared. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 16:25, 21 February 2010 (UTC)</div>ThunderGod Cidhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Blackstone_Knight_(3.5e_Class)&diff=457572Blackstone Knight (3.5e Class)2010-02-21T16:22:23Z<p>ThunderGod Cid: Undo revision 457407 by 189.98.170.232 (Talk) unauthorized edits by IP</p>
<hr />
<div>{{DnD Base Class Infobox<br />
|img=Black knight sun.jpg<br />
|imgloc=<br />
|imgsize=320px<br />
|imgcaption=<br />
|rating_power=3<br />
|raters_power=1<br />
|rating_wording=4<br />
|raters_wording=1<br />
|rating_formatting=4<br />
|raters_formatting=1<br />
|rating_flavor=3<br />
|raters_flavor=1<br />
|authors=<br />
|datecreated=<br />
|adopters=[[User:ThunderGod Cid|ThunderGod Cid]]<br />
|dateadopted=March 30, 2009<br />
|status=Done except for NPC<br />
|editing= Post suggestions on discussion page<br />
|type=Combat-Focused<br />
|desc=A more defensive variant of the [[Hellfire Knight (DnD Class)|Hellfire Knight]], the blackstone knight uses fiendish energy to morph his own body into a powerful combination of rock, metal, and flesh.<br />
}}<br />
<br />
==Blackstone Knight==<br />
<br />
The blackstone knight is very similar to the [[Hellfire Knight (DnD Class)|hellfire knight]]; both give up hit points to channel fiendish energy through their bodies, entering a state in which they gain great power for short periods. Where the hellfire knight manifests his powers as hellfire, however, the blackstone knight undergoes a transformation that turns his body into an amalgam of flesh, rock and metal.<br />
<br />
Extremely adept in the use of oversized weapons, a blackstone knight wades into the thick of battle, heavily armed and armored, and unleashes his catastrophic wrath upon his opponents. <br />
<br />
===Making a Blackstone Knight===<br />
<br />
Due to their lack of access to shields and the nature of their abilities, heavy armor is almost essential for a blackstone knight's survival. <br />
<br />
'''Abilities:''' [[Strength]] is the blackstone knight's forte, as well as [[Constitution]], for both of these increase his survivability. [[Charisma]] is his most important ability, however, for it affects the DC's of his abilities. <br />
<br />
'''Races:''' Like that of the hellfire knight, the path of the blackstone knight is often sought by those who seek raw power regardless of the consequences. The power of fiends is extremely dangerous, but many humans are willing to bet on the risk in search of the reward. Other races, particularly those that favor some form of fiendish cult, also create blackstone knights.<br />
<br />
'''Alignment:''' Any non-good. A good aligned character makes an unsuitable conduit for the evil power of the Lower Planes. <br />
<br />
'''Starting Gold:''' As Fighter. <br />
<br />
'''Starting Age: Moderate''' <br />
<br />
{| class="{{d20}}"<br />
|+<br />
<div>{{#anc:Table: The Blackstone Knight}}</div><br />
Hit Die: d10<br />
|-<br />
! rowspan="2" | Level<br />
! rowspan="2" | [[BAB|Base<br/>Attack Bonus]]<br />
! colspan="3" | [[SRD:Saving Throw|Saving Throw]]s<br />
! rowspan="2" | Special<br />
! rowspan="2" | Demonic Rush<br>Strength Bonus<br />
|-<br />
! [[SRD:Saving Throw#Fortitude|Fort]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Reflex|Ref]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Will|Will]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|1st|| class="left" | +1 || +2 || +0 || +0<br />
| class="left" | [[#Aura of Evil|Aura of Evil]], [[#Power of the Body|Power of the Body]], [[#Bigger Is Better|Bigger Is Better]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|2nd|| class="left" | +2 || +3 || +0 || +0<br />
| class="left" | [[#Demonic Rush|Demonic Rush]]<br />
| +2<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|3rd|| class="left" | +3 || +3 || +1 || +1<br />
| class="left" | [[#Mighty Swing|Mighty Swing]], [[#Damage Reduction|Damage Reduction 1/-]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|4th||class="left" | +4 || +4 || +1 || +1<br />
| class="left" | [[#Demonic Growth|Demonic Growth]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|5th||class="left" | +5 || +4 || +1 || +1<br />
| class="left" | <br />
| +4<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|6th||class="left" | +6/+1 || +5 || +2 || +2<br />
| class="left" | [[#Size Matters|Size Matters]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|7th||class="left" | +7/+2 || +5 || +2 || +2<br />
| class="left" | [[#Brimstone Body|Brimstone Body]], [[#Damage Reduction|Damage Reduction 2/-]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|8th||class="left" | +8/+3 || +6 || +2 || +2<br />
| class="left" | [[#Dire Swing|Dire Swing]]<br />
| +6<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|9th||class="left" | +9/+4 || +6 || +3 || +3<br />
| class="left" | [[#Plutonic Pillar|Plutonic Pillar]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|10th||class="left" | +10/+5 || +7 || +3 || +3<br />
| class="left" | [[#Second Skin|Second Skin]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|11th||class="left" | +11/+6/+1 || +7 || +3 || +3<br />
| class="left" | [[#Damage Reduction|Damage Reduction 3/-]]<br />
| +8<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|12th||class="left" | +12/+7/+2 || +8 || +4 || +4<br />
| class="left" | [[#The Devil's Mirror|The Devil’s Mirror]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|13th||class="left" | +13/+8/+3 || +8 || +4 || +4<br />
| class="left" | [[#Plutonic Prison|Plutonic Prison]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|14th||class="left" | +14/+9/+4 || +9 || +4 || +4<br />
| class="left" | <br />
| +10<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|15th||class="left" | +15/+10/+5 || +9 || +5 || +5<br />
| class="left" | [[#Damage Reduction|Damage Reduction 4/-]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|16th||class="left" | +16/+11/+6/+1 || +10 || +5 || +5<br />
| class="left" | [[#Stygian Steel|Stygian Steel]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|17th||class="left" | +17/+12/+7/+2 || +10 || +5 || +5<br />
| class="left" | <br />
| +12<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|18th||class="left" | +18/+13/+8/+3 || +11 || +6 || +6<br />
| class="left" | [[#Nilfheim|Nilfheim]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|19th||class="left" | +19/+14/+9/+4 || +11 || +6 || +6<br />
| class="left" | [[#Damage Reduction|Damage Reduction 5/-]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|20th||class="left" | +20/+15/+10/+5 || +12 || +6 || +6<br />
| class="left" | [[#Harbinger|Harbinger]]<br />
| +14<br />
|-<br />
| colspan="42" class="skill" |<br />
'''Class Skills 2 + [[SRD:Intelligence|Int]] modifier per level, &times;4 at 1st level)'''<br/><br />
[[SRD: Bluff Skill|Bluff]] ([[SRD:Charisma|Cha]]), [[SRD:Climb Skill|Climb]] ([[SRD:Strength|Str]]), [[SRD:Craft Skill|Craft]] ([[SRD:Intelligence|Int]]), [[SRD:Handle Animal Skill|Handle Animal]] ([[SRD:Charisma|Cha]]), [[SRD:Intimidate Skill|Intimidate]] ([[SRD:Charisma|Cha]]), [[SRD:Jump Skill|Jump]] ([[SRD:Strength|Str]]), [[SRD:Knowledge Skill|Knowledge (The Planes)]] ([[SRD:Intelligence|Int]]), [[SRD:Ride Skill|Ride]] ([[SRD:Dexterity|Dex]]), [[SRD:Survival Skill|Survival]] ([[SRD:Wisdom|Wis]]), [[SRD:Swim Skill|Swim]] ([[SRD:Strength|Str]]).<br />
|}<br />
<br />
====Class Features====<br />
All of the following are class features of the blackstone knight.<br />
<br />
'''Weapon and Armor Proficiency:''' A blackstone knight is automatically proficient with all simple and martial weapons. He is also proficient with all forms of armor, but not shields.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Aura of Evil}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' The power of a blackstone knight’s aura of evil (see detect evil) is equal to his blackstone knight level. To such a spell, the blackstone knight always registers as evil regardless of his true alignment.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Power of the Body}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' A blackstone knight is extremely hardy, able to withstand a great deal of punishment before going down. He gains maximum hit points for every level of blackstone knight that he takes. This does not apply to any levels from any other classes or racial Hit Die.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Bigger is Better}}:''' A blackstone knight specializes in the use of the largest weapon possible. He gains Monkey Grip ([[Complete Warrior]]) as a bonus feat at 1st level, but its effects only allow him to use a larger than normal weapon in two hands. For example, a blackstone knight can wield a Huge greatsword in two hands, but cannot use a Large greatsword in one hand if his size does not normally allow him to do so.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Demonic Rush}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' Starting at second level, the blackstone knight can channel the energy of the Lower Planes through his body, sacrificing his health for temporary power. While in a demonic rush, the blackstone knight gains a bonus to Strength (see the table) and a +4 bonus on all saving throws, but takes 1d4 damage per round he stays in the rush as the energy causes his body to break down at an absurdly rapid pace. This damage cannot be countered by any form of damage resistance. A blackstone knight can use a demonic rush for a number of rounds per day equal to 10 + his blackstone knight level, and these rounds need not be consecutive. Starting or ending a demonic rush is a move-equivalent action. <br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Mighty Swing}}:''' A blackstone knight gains the [[Power Attack]] as a bonus feat at 3rd level, even if he does not meet the prerequisites. Not only can the blackstone knight reduce his base attack bonus, but he can also sacrifice his Armor Class to add even more damage to his attacks. The ratio for sacrificing Armor Class is the same as using his base attack bonus. <br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Damage Reduction}}:''' Whatever doesn’t kill you only makes you stronger. The blackstone knight gains [[damage reduction]] 1/- at third level, and this value increases by 1 every four levels up to 5/-. <br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Demonic Growth}}:''' At fourth level, a blackstone knight in a demonic rush can sacrifice 1d4 additional hit points to replicate the effects of an ''[[enlarge person]]'' spell for the duration of the current demonic rush. All of the normal procedures for the spell are followed, but this ability cannot be countered by ''[[reduce person]]'' or made permanent. <br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Size Matters}}:''' When wielding a Large size or larger weapon, a blackstone knight applies 1 ½ times his Strength bonus to damage rolls for one-handed melee attacks. If he wields the weapon in two hands, he applies double his Strength bonus to damage.<br />
<br />
'''''{{#anc:Brimstone Body}}'' ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Spell-Like|Sp]]):''' At the cost of 1d6 hit points, a 7th level blackstone knight can cover his body in a tough, red/black abyssal rock, granting him the effects of a stoneskin spell either until it absorbs the maximum amount of damage or for the duration of his current demonic rush.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Dire Swing}}:''' A blackstone knight is an expert at wielding a weapon with power by eighth level. He now gains a +3 bonus to damage for every 2 points of base attack bonus or Armor Class he gives up.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Plutonic Pillar}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Supernatural|Su]]):''' The blackstone knight gains a potent offensive weapon at 9th level, when he gains the ability to call a powerful adamantine spike from below ground during a demonic rush at the cost of 1d8 hit points. This column can attack any foe in contact with the ground within a radius of 10 feet per blackstone knight level, dealing 1d4 points of bludgeoning damage per level. The use of this ability is a standard action.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Second Skin}}:''' At 10th level, the blackstone knight has become so accustomed to wearing heavy armor that even his suit’s weight is inconsequential to him. He no longer takes a penalty to his movement speed when wearing armor, and can run using his normal multiplier. Other armor penalties (such as armor check penalties) still apply.<br />
<br />
'''''{{#anc:The Devil's Mirror}}'' ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Spell-Like|Sp]]):''' At 12th level, the blackstone knight can use ''[[spell turning]]'' during a demonic rush when he gives up 1d10 hit points. The effect functions normally, with the blackstone knight rolling to determine how many spell levels are turned.<br />
<br />
'''''{{#anc:Plutonic Prison}}'' ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Spell-Like|Sp]]):''' At 13th level, the blackstone knight may encase an opponent in stone for 3d4 of his own hit points, replicating the ''[[flesh to stone]]'' spell. The knight has no capability of reversing this effect.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Stygian Steel}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Supernatural|Su]]):''' At 16th level, the blackstone knight can cover his body in solid metal (like the ''[[iron body]]'' spell) for self-defense. When he uses this ability, he takes 2d4 damage per round he maintains the transformation. This effect immediately ends when he stops his current demonic rush, but may be resumed freely during another rush.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Nilfheim}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Supernatural|Su]]):''' The blackstone knight can make the rock and metal around his body burst forth in an explosion of destructive force. At 18th level, a knight in a demonic rush may give up 4d4 hit points to deal 1d6 points of damage per level (maximum 20d6) to everything in a 50-foot radius around him. If the blackstone knight uses Nilfheim, his current demonic rush immediately ends, and he cannot use his demonic rush again for 24 hours. He is also treated as [[exhausted]] until he rests for 8 full hours.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Harbinger}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' At 20th level, the blackstone knight’s power to channel fiendish energy reaches its pinnacle. He may now use either of the plutonic abilities outside of his demonic rush. He gains the [[outsider]] type (with the native subtype).<br />
<br />
====Ex-Blackstone Knights====<br />
<br />
If a blackstone knight becomes of good alignment, he cannot channel the fiendish energies that grant him strength. He loses the ability to use his demonic rush and all associated abilities. These abilities are restored to him as soon as he reverts to a non-good alignment.<br />
<br />
====Epic Blackstone Knight====<br />
<br />
{| class="{{d20}}"<br />
|+ class="epic" |<br />
The Epic Blackstone Knight<br><br />
Hit Die: d10<br />
! Level !! Special !! Demonic Rush<br>Strength Bonus<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 21st || class="left" | [[#Bonus Feats|Bonus Feat]] || class="left" |<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 22nd || class="left" | || class="left" |<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 23rd || class="left" | || class="left" |+16 <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 24th || class="left" | [[#Bonus Feats|Bonus Feat]] || class="left" |<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 25th || class="left" | || class="left" |<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 26th || class="left" | || class="left" |+18<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 27th || class="left" | [[#Bonus Feats|Bonus Feat]] || class="left" |<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 28th || class="left" | || class="left" |<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 29th || class="left" | || class="left" |+20<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 30th || class="left" | [[#Bonus Feats|Bonus Feat]] || class="left" |<br />
|-<br />
| colspan="42" class="skill" |<br />
2 + [[SRD:Intelligence|Int]] modifier skill points per level.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
'''Demonic Rush:''' An epic level blackstone knight continues to gain daily rounds for his demonic rush, allowing him to use it for longer periods of time. He also gains an additional +2 bonus to [[Strength]] during a demonic rush every three levels.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc: Bonus Feats }}:''' The epic blackstone knight gains a bonus feat (selected from the list of epic hellfire knight bonus feats) at 21st level and every three levels after.<br />
<br />
''Epic Blackstone Knight Bonus Feat List:'' [[SRD:Armor Skin|Armor Skin]], [[SRD:Damage Reduction (Feat)|Damage Reduction]], [[SRD:Epic Speed|Epic Speed]], [[SRD:Epic Toughness|Epic Toughness]], [[SRD:Fast Healing|Fast Healing]], [[SRD:Great Charisma|Great Charisma]], [[SRD:Great Strength|Great Strength]], [[SRD:Superior Initiative|Superior Initiative]]<br />
<br />
====Human Blackstone Knight Starting Package====<br />
<br />
'''Weapons:''' [[Greataxe]].<br />
<br />
'''Skill Selection:''' Pick a number of skills equal to 4 + [[Int]] modifier.<br />
<br />
{| class="{{d20}}"<br />
|-<br />
! class="left" | Skill || Ranks || Ability || Armor<br/>Check<br/>Penalty<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| class="left" | Bluff || 4 || Cha || &mdash;<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| class="left" | Intimidate || 4 || Cha || &mdash;<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| class="left" | Jump || 4 || Str || &mdash;<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| class="left" | Survival || 2 || Wis || &mdash;<br />
|}<br />
<br />
'''Feat:''' [[Improved Initiative]]<br />
<br />
'''Bonus Feats:''' [[Weapon Focus]] ([[greataxe]])<br />
<br />
'''Gear:''' Full Plate, Standard Adventurer's gear.<br />
<br />
'''Gold:''' none<br />
<br />
===Campaign Information===<br />
<br />
====Playing a Blackstone Knight====<br />
<br />
'''Religion:''' As the carriers of unearthly demonic powers, blackstone knights are often (and sometimes unwillingly) tied with cults of such entities. It is rare that they venerate or even associate themselves with good dieties, but it is not unheard of.<br />
<br />
'''Other Classes:''' Blackstone knights associate with others much like hellfire knights; due to the self-damaging nature of their abilities, they highly value clerics or any similar class with healing abilities who can keep them alive and away from their damnation for as long as possible. But the defensive and enigmatic nature of a blackstone knight is not reflected in his hellfire knight kindred, and as a result they get along with others even more poorly. A rare partnership is a blackstone knight traveling with a hellfire knight; this is not out of a particular lack of desire, but rather because of the extreme rarity of both classes. When these pairings are formed, however, the result is usually a very formidable combat tandem. On the other hand, clashes between two knights of different alignment is not unheard of, and when the combatants are powerful their duels can last for hours, razing the landscape for miles around.<br />
<br />
'''Combat:''' With his powerful defensive capabilities and aptitude for large melee weapons, the blackstone knight makes a powerful front-line combatant even without hyis demonic rush. When he channels the power at his disposal, he becomes a powerful bastion of defense that can withstand all comers.<br />
<br />
'''Advancement:''' Just as the hellfire knights worship Mephistopheles (or some other hellfire-related entity), blackstone knights worship a figure that greatly reflects their own abilities: the Iron Lord Dispater. Blackstone knights of an evil alignment often become disciples of said devil lord, while others still usually revere gods of war, reveling in bloodshed.<br />
<br />
====Blackstone Knights in the World====<br />
<br />
{{quote|''Hell is the highest reward that the devil can offer you for being a servant of his.''|orig=Tartaros, human blackstone knight}}<br />
<br />
Due to their high level of combat effectiveness without the use of their fiendish abilties, most blackstone knights can pass as fighters to the unwitting observer. Anyone with the ability to ''[[detect evil]]'' or [[detect magic|magic]], however, will find that there is much more to them than meets the eye.<br />
<br />
'''Daily Life:''' The nomadic life of a sellsword is well suited to a blackstone knight, who prefers to never stay in one place for too long. They never accept permanent deals and leave whenever they feel they have attracted too much attention to maintain the concealment of their powers.<br />
<br />
'''Notables:''' Tartaros is an old and powerful blackstone knight (BsK 22) as well as the comrade of the hellfire knight Azazel. Despite his graying hair, his body is still that of a man is his prime, and the speed in which he moves when dressed in full plate armor astounds many of his opponents.<br />
<br />
'''Organizations:''' There is never a formal organization of the blackstone knights, as a large congregation would attract the attention of fanatical demon-killers who would jump at the opportunity to kill an alleged "half-fiend".<br />
<br />
'''NPC Reactions:''' Fear and awe follow the reticent and armored blackstone knights wherever they roam. Imposing even at first glance, a blackstone knight usually fails in all attempts to blend in.<br />
<br />
====Blackstone Knight Lore====<br />
<br />
Characters with ranks in [[Knowledge]] (the planes) can research blackstone knights to learn more about them. When a character makes a skill check, read or paraphrase the following, including information from lower DCs.<br />
<br />
{| class="{{d20}}"<br />
|+ [[Knowledge]] (the planes)<br />
! DC || class="left" | Result<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 5 || class="left" | Blackstone knights are offshoots of hellfire knights with the same ability to channel fiendish energies.<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 10 || class="left" | Many blackstone knights revere gods of war, and it is reflected in their militant, mercenary attitudes.<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 15 || class="left" | Blackstone knights are very defensive in nature; they wear heavy armor in battle to work in concert with their formidable transformation capabilities.<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 20 || class="left" | Among these transformations are the ability to change size and to cover the body in living stone or metal.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
====Blackstone Knights in the Game====<br />
<br />
Blackstone knights appear to be fighters to the untrained eye; to further this deception may try to behave in the same manner as their fighter counterparts. Most blackstone knights are swords-for-hire, and can be found wherever some grisly work needs to be done.<br />
<br />
'''Adaptation:''' Almost every campaign setting has some form of the Lower Planes. Blackstone knights channel the powers of the infernal beings who reside there into their own bodies.<br />
<br />
'''Sample Encounter:''' A 9th level chaotic neutral blackstone knight travels with a band of bloodthirsty mercenaries. He cares nothing for his comrades' lives and will not use his full power until they are all dead or he is at serious risk of being slain. <br />
<br />
''EL whatever:'' <-Encounter scenario and character info on sample NPC including stat block. The CR of the NPC is typically the same as the EL for the encounter.->.<br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
[[Category:DnD]]<br />
[[Category:3.5e]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Class]]<br />
[[Category:Base Class]]<br />
[[Category:Combat-Focused]]</div>ThunderGod Cidhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Blackstone_Knight_(3.5e_Class)&diff=457571Blackstone Knight (3.5e Class)2010-02-21T16:21:49Z<p>ThunderGod Cid: Undo revision 457408 by 189.98.170.232 (Talk) unauthorized edits by IP</p>
<hr />
<div>{{DnD Base Class Infobox<br />
|img=Black knight sun.jpg<br />
|imgloc=<br />
|imgsize=320px<br />
|imgcaption=<br />
|rating_power=3<br />
|raters_power=1<br />
|rating_wording=4<br />
|raters_wording=1<br />
|rating_formatting=4<br />
|raters_formatting=1<br />
|rating_flavor=3<br />
|raters_flavor=1<br />
|authors=<br />
|datecreated=<br />
|adopters=[[User:ThunderGod Cid|ThunderGod Cid]]<br />
|dateadopted=March 30, 2009<br />
|status=Done except for NPC<br />
|editing= Post suggestions on discussion page<br />
|type=Combat-Focused<br />
|desc=A more defensive variant of the [[Hellfire Knight (DnD Class)|Hellfire Knight]], the blackstone knight uses fiendish energy to morph his own body into a powerful combination of rock, metal, and flesh.<br />
}}<br />
<br />
==Blackstone Knight==<br />
<br />
The blackstone knight is very similar to the [[Hellfire Knight (DnD Class)|hellfire knight]]; both give up hit points to channel fiendish energy through their bodies, entering a state in which they gain great power for short periods. Where the hellfire knight manifests his powers as hellfire, however, the blackstone knight undergoes a transformation that turns his body into an amalgam of flesh, rock and metal.<br />
<br />
Extremely adept in the use of oversized weapons, a blackstone knight wades into the thick of battle, heavily armed and armored, and unleashes his catastrophic wrath upon his opponents. <br />
<br />
===Making a Blackstone Knight===<br />
<br />
Due to their lack of access to shields and the nature of their abilities, heavy armor is almost essential for a blackstone knight's survival. <br />
<br />
'''Abilities:''' [[Strength]] is the blackstone knight's forte, as well as [[Constitution]], for both of these increase his survivability. [[Charisma]] is his most important ability, however, for it affects the DC's of his abilities. <br />
<br />
'''Races:''' Like that of the hellfire knight, the path of the blackstone knight is often sought by those who seek raw power regardless of the consequences. The power of fiends is extremely dangerous, but many humans are willing to bet on the risk in search of the reward. Other races, particularly those that favor some form of fiendish cult, also create blackstone knights.<br />
<br />
'''Alignment:''' Any non-good. A good aligned character makes an unsuitable conduit for the evil power of the Lower Planes. <br />
<br />
'''Starting Gold:''' As Fighter. <br />
<br />
'''Starting Age: Moderate''' <br />
<br />
{| class="{{d20}}"<br />
|+<br />
<div>{{#anc:Table: The Blackstone Knight}}</div><br />
Hit Die: d10<br />
|-<br />
! rowspan="2" | Level<br />
! rowspan="2" | [[BAB|Base<br/>Attack Bonus]]<br />
! colspan="3" | [[SRD:Saving Throw|Saving Throw]]s<br />
! rowspan="2" | Special<br />
! rowspan="2" | Demonic Rush<br>Strength Bonus<br />
|-<br />
! [[SRD:Saving Throw#Fortitude|Fort]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Reflex|Ref]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Will|Will]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|1st|| class="left" | +1 || +2 || +0 || +0<br />
| class="left" | [[#Aura of Evil|Aura of Evil]], [[#Power of the Body|Power of the Body]], [[#Bigger Is Better|Bigger Is Better]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|2nd|| class="left" | +2 || +3 || +0 || +0<br />
| class="left" | [[#Demonic Rush|Demonic Rush]]<br />
| +2<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|3rd|| class="left" | +3 || +3 || +1 || +1<br />
| class="left" | [[#Mighty Swing|Mighty Swing]], [[#Damage Reduction|Damage Reduction 1/-]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|4th||class="left" | +4 || +4 || +1 || +1<br />
| class="left" | [[#Demonic Growth|Demonic Growth]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|5th||class="left" | +5 || +4 || +1 || +1<br />
| class="left" | <br />
| +4<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|6th||class="left" | +6/+1 || +5 || +2 || +2<br />
| class="left" | [[#Size Matters|Size Matters]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|7th||class="left" | +7/+2 || +5 || +2 || +2<br />
| class="left" | [[#Brimstone Body|Brimstone Body]], [[#Damage Reduction|Damage Reduction 2/-]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|8th||class="left" | +8/+3 || +6 || +2 || +2<br />
| class="left" | [[#Dire Swing|Dire Swing]]<br />
| +6<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|9th||class="left" | +9/+4 || +6 || +3 || +3<br />
| class="left" | [[#Plutonic Pillar|Plutonic Pillar]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|10th||class="left" | +10/+5 || +7 || +3 || +3<br />
| class="left" | [[#Second Skin|Second Skin]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|11th||class="left" | +11/+6/+1 || +7 || +3 || +3<br />
| class="left" | [[#Damage Reduction|Damage Reduction 3/-]]<br />
| +8<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|12th||class="left" | +12/+7/+2 || +8 || +4 || +4<br />
| class="left" | [[#The Devil's Mirror|The Devil’s Mirror]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|13th||class="left" | +13/+8/+3 || +8 || +4 || +4<br />
| class="left" | [[#Plutonic Prison|Plutonic Prison]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|14th||class="left" | +14/+9/+4 || +9 || +4 || +4<br />
| class="left" | <br />
| +10<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|15th||class="left" | +15/+10/+5 || +9 || +5 || +5<br />
| class="left" | [[#Damage Reduction|Damage Reduction 4/-]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|16th||class="left" | +16/+11/+6/+1 || +10 || +5 || +5<br />
| class="left" | [[#Stygian Steel|Stygian Steel]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|17th||class="left" | +17/+12/+7/+2 || +10 || +5 || +5<br />
| class="left" | <br />
| +12<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|18th||class="left" | +18/+13/+8/+3 || +11 || +6 || +6<br />
| class="left" | [[#Nilfheim|Nilfheim]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|19th||class="left" | +19/+14/+9/+4 || +11 || +6 || +6<br />
| class="left" | [[#Damage Reduction|Damage Reduction 5/-]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|20th||class="left" | +20/+15/+10/+5 || +12 || +6 || +6<br />
| class="left" | [[#Harbinger|Harbinger]]<br />
| +14<br />
|-<br />
| colspan="42" class="skill" |<br />
'''Class Skills 2 + [[SRD:Intelligence|Int]] modifier per level, &times;4 at 1st level)'''<br/><br />
[[SRD: Bluff Skill|Bluff]] ([[SRD:Charisma|Cha]]), [[SRD:Climb Skill|Climb]] ([[SRD:Strength|Str]]), [[SRD:Craft Skill|Craft]] ([[SRD:Intelligence|Int]]), [[SRD:Handle Animal Skill|Handle Animal]] ([[SRD:Charisma|Cha]]), [[SRD:Intimidate Skill|Intimidate]] ([[SRD:Charisma|Cha]]), [[SRD:Jump Skill|Jump]] ([[SRD:Strength|Str]]), [[SRD:Knowledge Skill|Knowledge (The Planes)]] ([[SRD:Intelligence|Int]]), [[SRD:Ride Skill|Ride]] ([[SRD:Dexterity|Dex]]), [[SRD:Survival Skill|Survival]] ([[SRD:Wisdom|Wis]]), [[SRD:Swim Skill|Swim]] ([[SRD:Strength|Str]]).<br />
|}<br />
<br />
====Class Features====<br />
All of the following are class features of the blackstone knight.<br />
<br />
'''Weapon and Armor Proficiency:''' A blackstone knight is automatically proficient with all simple and martial weapons. He is also proficient with all forms of armor, but not shields.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Aura of Evil}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' The power of a blackstone knight’s aura of evil (see detect evil) is equal to his blackstone knight level. To such a spell, the blackstone knight always registers as evil regardless of his true alignment.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Power of the Body}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' A blackstone knight is extremely hardy, able to withstand a great deal of punishment before going down. He gains maximum hit points for every level of blackstone knight that he takes. This does not apply to any levels from any other classes or racial Hit Die.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Bigger is Better}}:''' A blackstone knight specializes in the use of the largest weapon possible. He gains Monkey Grip ([[Complete Warrior]]) as a bonus feat at 1st level, but its effects only allow him to use a larger than normal weapon in two hands. For example, a blackstone knight can wield a Huge greatsword in two hands, but cannot use a Large greatsword in one hand if his size does not normally allow him to do so.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Demonic Rush}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' Starting at second level, the blackstone knight can channel the energy of the Lower Planes through his body, sacrificing his health for temporary power. While in a demonic rush, the blackstone knight gains a bonus to Strength (see the table) and a +4 bonus on all saving throws, but takes 6 damage per round he stays in the rush as the energy causes his body to break down at an absurdly rapid pace. This damage cannot be countered by any form of damage resistance. A blackstone knight can use a demonic rush for a number of rounds per day equal to 10 + his blackstone knight level, and these rounds need not be consecutive. Starting or ending a demonic rush is a move-equivalent action. If for any reason a Blackstone Knight go to lower than 10 hitpoints he instantly leave the Demonic Rush. <br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Mighty Swing}}:''' A blackstone knight gains the [[Power Attack]] as a bonus feat at 3rd level, even if he does not meet the prerequisites. Not only can the blackstone knight reduce his base attack bonus, but he can also sacrifice his Armor Class to add even more damage to his attacks. The ratio for sacrificing Armor Class is the same as using his base attack bonus. <br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Damage Reduction}}:''' Whatever doesn’t kill you only makes you stronger. The blackstone knight gains [[damage reduction]] 1/- at third level, and this value increases by 1 every four levels up to 5/-. <br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Demonic Growth}}:''' At fourth level, a blackstone knight in a demonic rush can sacrifice 1d6 additional hit points to replicate the effects of an ''[[enlarge person]]'' spell for the duration of the current demonic rush. All of the normal procedures for the spell are followed, but this ability cannot be countered by ''[[reduce person]]'' or made permanent. <br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Size Matters}}:''' When wielding a Large size or larger weapon, a blackstone knight applies 1 ½ times his Strength bonus to damage rolls for one-handed melee attacks. If he wields the weapon in two hands, he applies double his Strength bonus to damage.<br />
<br />
'''''{{#anc:Brimstone Body}}'' ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Spell-Like|Sp]]):''' At the cost of 1d8 hit points, a 7th level blackstone knight can cover his body in a tough, red/black abyssal rock, granting him the effects of a stoneskin spell either until it absorbs the maximum amount of damage or for the duration of his current demonic rush.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Dire Swing}}:''' A blackstone knight is an expert at wielding a weapon with power by eighth level. He now gains a +3 bonus to damage for every 2 points of base attack bonus or Armor Class he gives up.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Plutonic Pillar}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Supernatural|Su]]):''' The blackstone knight gains a potent offensive weapon at 9th level, when he gains the ability to call a powerful adamantine spike from below ground during a demonic rush at the cost of 10 hit points. This column can attack any foe in contact with the ground within a radius of 10 feet per blackstone knight level, dealing 1d4 points of bludgeoning damage per level. The use of this ability is a standard action.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Second Skin}}:''' At 10th level, the blackstone knight has become so accustomed to wearing heavy armor that even his suit’s weight is inconsequential to him. He no longer takes a penalty to his movement speed when wearing armor, and can run using his normal multiplier. Other armor penalties (such as armor check penalties) still apply.<br />
<br />
'''''{{#anc:The Devil's Mirror}}'' ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Spell-Like|Sp]]):''' At 12th level, the blackstone knight can use ''[[spell turning]]'' during a demonic rush when he gives up 12 hit points. The effect functions normally, with the blackstone knight rolling to determine how many spell levels are turned.<br />
<br />
'''''{{#anc:Plutonic Prison}}'' ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Spell-Like|Sp]]):''' At 13th level, the blackstone knight may encase an opponent in stone for 20 of his own hit points, replicating the ''[[flesh to stone]]'' spell. The knight has no capability of reversing this effect.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Stygian Steel}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Supernatural|Su]]):''' At 16th level, the blackstone knight can cover his body in solid metal (like the ''[[iron body]]'' spell) for self-defense. When he uses this ability, he takes 8 damage per round he maintains the transformation. This effect immediately ends when he stops his current demonic rush, but may be resumed freely during another rush.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Nilfheim}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Supernatural|Su]]):''' The blackstone knight can make the rock and metal around his body burst forth in an explosion of destructive force. At 18th level, a knight in a demonic rush may give up 20 hit points to deal 1d6 points of damage per level (maximum 20d6) to everything in a 50-foot radius around him. If the blackstone knight uses Nilfheim, his current demonic rush immediately ends, and he cannot use his demonic rush again for 24 hours. He is also treated as [[exhausted]] until he rests for 8 full hours.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Harbinger}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' At 20th level, the blackstone knight’s power to channel fiendish energy reaches its pinnacle. He may now use either of the plutonic abilities outside of his demonic rush. He gains the [[outsider]] type (with the native subtype).<br />
<br />
====Ex-Blackstone Knights====<br />
<br />
If a blackstone knight becomes of good alignment, he cannot channel the fiendish energies that grant him strength. He loses the ability to use his demonic rush and all associated abilities. These abilities are restored to him as soon as he reverts to a non-good alignment.<br />
<br />
====Epic Blackstone Knight====<br />
<br />
{| class="{{d20}}"<br />
|+ class="epic" |<br />
The Epic Blackstone Knight<br><br />
Hit Die: d10<br />
! Level !! Special !! Demonic Rush<br>Strength Bonus<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 21st || class="left" | [[#Bonus Feats|Bonus Feat]] || class="left" |<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 22nd || class="left" | || class="left" |<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 23rd || class="left" | || class="left" |+16 <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 24th || class="left" | [[#Bonus Feats|Bonus Feat]] || class="left" |<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 25th || class="left" | || class="left" |<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 26th || class="left" | || class="left" |+18<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 27th || class="left" | [[#Bonus Feats|Bonus Feat]] || class="left" |<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 28th || class="left" | || class="left" |<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 29th || class="left" | || class="left" |+20<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 30th || class="left" | [[#Bonus Feats|Bonus Feat]] || class="left" |<br />
|-<br />
| colspan="42" class="skill" |<br />
2 + [[SRD:Intelligence|Int]] modifier skill points per level.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
'''Demonic Rush:''' An epic level blackstone knight continues to gain daily rounds for his demonic rush, allowing him to use it for longer periods of time. He also gains an additional +2 bonus to [[Strength]] during a demonic rush every three levels.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc: Bonus Feats }}:''' The epic blackstone knight gains a bonus feat (selected from the list of epic hellfire knight bonus feats) at 21st level and every three levels after.<br />
<br />
''Epic Blackstone Knight Bonus Feat List:'' [[SRD:Armor Skin|Armor Skin]], [[SRD:Damage Reduction (Feat)|Damage Reduction]], [[SRD:Epic Speed|Epic Speed]], [[SRD:Epic Toughness|Epic Toughness]], [[SRD:Fast Healing|Fast Healing]], [[SRD:Great Charisma|Great Charisma]], [[SRD:Great Strength|Great Strength]], [[SRD:Superior Initiative|Superior Initiative]]<br />
<br />
====Human Blackstone Knight Starting Package====<br />
<br />
'''Weapons:''' [[Greataxe]].<br />
<br />
'''Skill Selection:''' Pick a number of skills equal to 4 + [[Int]] modifier.<br />
<br />
{| class="{{d20}}"<br />
|-<br />
! class="left" | Skill || Ranks || Ability || Armor<br/>Check<br/>Penalty<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| class="left" | Bluff || 4 || Cha || &mdash;<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| class="left" | Intimidate || 4 || Cha || &mdash;<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| class="left" | Jump || 4 || Str || &mdash;<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| class="left" | Survival || 2 || Wis || &mdash;<br />
|}<br />
<br />
'''Feat:''' [[Improved Initiative]]<br />
<br />
'''Bonus Feats:''' [[Weapon Focus]] ([[greataxe]])<br />
<br />
'''Gear:''' Full Plate, Standard Adventurer's gear.<br />
<br />
'''Gold:''' none<br />
<br />
===Campaign Information===<br />
<br />
====Playing a Blackstone Knight====<br />
<br />
'''Religion:''' As the carriers of unearthly demonic powers, blackstone knights are often (and sometimes unwillingly) tied with cults of such entities. It is rare that they venerate or even associate themselves with good dieties, but it is not unheard of.<br />
<br />
'''Other Classes:''' Blackstone knights associate with others much like hellfire knights; due to the self-damaging nature of their abilities, they highly value clerics or any similar class with healing abilities who can keep them alive and away from their damnation for as long as possible. But the defensive and enigmatic nature of a blackstone knight is not reflected in his hellfire knight kindred, and as a result they get along with others even more poorly. A rare partnership is a blackstone knight traveling with a hellfire knight; this is not out of a particular lack of desire, but rather because of the extreme rarity of both classes. When these pairings are formed, however, the result is usually a very formidable combat tandem. On the other hand, clashes between two knights of different alignment is not unheard of, and when the combatants are powerful their duels can last for hours, razing the landscape for miles around.<br />
<br />
'''Combat:''' With his powerful defensive capabilities and aptitude for large melee weapons, the blackstone knight makes a powerful front-line combatant even without hyis demonic rush. When he channels the power at his disposal, he becomes a powerful bastion of defense that can withstand all comers.<br />
<br />
'''Advancement:''' Just as the hellfire knights worship Mephistopheles (or some other hellfire-related entity), blackstone knights worship a figure that greatly reflects their own abilities: the Iron Lord Dispater. Blackstone knights of an evil alignment often become disciples of said devil lord, while others still usually revere gods of war, reveling in bloodshed.<br />
<br />
====Blackstone Knights in the World====<br />
<br />
{{quote|''Hell is the highest reward that the devil can offer you for being a servant of his.''|orig=Tartaros, human blackstone knight}}<br />
<br />
Due to their high level of combat effectiveness without the use of their fiendish abilties, most blackstone knights can pass as fighters to the unwitting observer. Anyone with the ability to ''[[detect evil]]'' or [[detect magic|magic]], however, will find that there is much more to them than meets the eye.<br />
<br />
'''Daily Life:''' The nomadic life of a sellsword is well suited to a blackstone knight, who prefers to never stay in one place for too long. They never accept permanent deals and leave whenever they feel they have attracted too much attention to maintain the concealment of their powers.<br />
<br />
'''Notables:''' Tartaros is an old and powerful blackstone knight (BsK 22) as well as the comrade of the hellfire knight Azazel. Despite his graying hair, his body is still that of a man is his prime, and the speed in which he moves when dressed in full plate armor astounds many of his opponents.<br />
<br />
'''Organizations:''' There is never a formal organization of the blackstone knights, as a large congregation would attract the attention of fanatical demon-killers who would jump at the opportunity to kill an alleged "half-fiend".<br />
<br />
'''NPC Reactions:''' Fear and awe follow the reticent and armored blackstone knights wherever they roam. Imposing even at first glance, a blackstone knight usually fails in all attempts to blend in.<br />
<br />
====Blackstone Knight Lore====<br />
<br />
Characters with ranks in [[Knowledge]] (the planes) can research blackstone knights to learn more about them. When a character makes a skill check, read or paraphrase the following, including information from lower DCs.<br />
<br />
{| class="{{d20}}"<br />
|+ [[Knowledge]] (the planes)<br />
! DC || class="left" | Result<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 5 || class="left" | Blackstone knights are offshoots of hellfire knights with the same ability to channel fiendish energies.<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 10 || class="left" | Many blackstone knights revere gods of war, and it is reflected in their militant, mercenary attitudes.<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 15 || class="left" | Blackstone knights are very defensive in nature; they wear heavy armor in battle to work in concert with their formidable transformation capabilities.<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 20 || class="left" | Among these transformations are the ability to change size and to cover the body in living stone or metal.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
====Blackstone Knights in the Game====<br />
<br />
Blackstone knights appear to be fighters to the untrained eye; to further this deception may try to behave in the same manner as their fighter counterparts. Most blackstone knights are swords-for-hire, and can be found wherever some grisly work needs to be done.<br />
<br />
'''Adaptation:''' Almost every campaign setting has some form of the Lower Planes. Blackstone knights channel the powers of the infernal beings who reside there into their own bodies.<br />
<br />
'''Sample Encounter:''' A 9th level chaotic neutral blackstone knight travels with a band of bloodthirsty mercenaries. He cares nothing for his comrades' lives and will not use his full power until they are all dead or he is at serious risk of being slain. <br />
<br />
''EL whatever:'' <-Encounter scenario and character info on sample NPC including stat block. The CR of the NPC is typically the same as the EL for the encounter.->.<br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
[[Category:DnD]]<br />
[[Category:3.5e]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Class]]<br />
[[Category:Base Class]]<br />
[[Category:Combat-Focused]]</div>ThunderGod Cidhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Blackstone_Knight_(3.5e_Class)&diff=457570Blackstone Knight (3.5e Class)2010-02-21T16:21:14Z<p>ThunderGod Cid: Undo revision 457410 by 189.98.170.232 (Talk) unauthorized edits by IP</p>
<hr />
<div>{{DnD Base Class Infobox<br />
|img=Black knight sun.jpg<br />
|imgloc=<br />
|imgsize=320px<br />
|imgcaption=<br />
|rating_power=3<br />
|raters_power=1<br />
|rating_wording=4<br />
|raters_wording=1<br />
|rating_formatting=4<br />
|raters_formatting=1<br />
|rating_flavor=3<br />
|raters_flavor=1<br />
|authors=<br />
|datecreated=<br />
|adopters=[[User:ThunderGod Cid|ThunderGod Cid]]<br />
|dateadopted=March 30, 2009<br />
|status=Done except for NPC<br />
|editing= Post suggestions on discussion page<br />
|type=Combat-Focused<br />
|desc=A more defensive variant of the [[Hellfire Knight (DnD Class)|Hellfire Knight]], the blackstone knight uses fiendish energy to morph his own body into a powerful combination of rock, metal, and flesh.<br />
}}<br />
<br />
==Blackstone Knight==<br />
<br />
The blackstone knight is very similar to the [[Hellfire Knight (DnD Class)|hellfire knight]]; both give up hit points to channel fiendish energy through their bodies, entering a state in which they gain great power for short periods. Where the hellfire knight manifests his powers as hellfire, however, the blackstone knight undergoes a transformation that turns his body into an amalgam of flesh, rock and metal.<br />
<br />
Extremely adept in the use of oversized weapons, a blackstone knight wades into the thick of battle, heavily armed and armored, and unleashes his catastrophic wrath upon his opponents. <br />
<br />
===Making a Blackstone Knight===<br />
<br />
Due to their lack of access to shields and the nature of their abilities, heavy armor is almost essential for a blackstone knight's survival. <br />
<br />
'''Abilities:''' [[Strength]] is the blackstone knight's forte, as well as [[Constitution]], for both of these increase his survivability. [[Charisma]] is his most important ability, however, for it affects the DC's of his abilities. <br />
<br />
'''Races:''' Like that of the hellfire knight, the path of the blackstone knight is often sought by those who seek raw power regardless of the consequences. The power of fiends is extremely dangerous, but many humans are willing to bet on the risk in search of the reward. Other races, particularly those that favor some form of fiendish cult, also create blackstone knights.<br />
<br />
'''Alignment:''' Any non-good. A good aligned character makes an unsuitable conduit for the evil power of the Lower Planes. <br />
<br />
'''Starting Gold:''' As Fighter. <br />
<br />
'''Starting Age: Moderate''' <br />
<br />
{| class="{{d20}}"<br />
|+<br />
<div>{{#anc:Table: The Blackstone Knight}}</div><br />
Hit Die: d10<br />
|-<br />
! rowspan="2" | Level<br />
! rowspan="2" | [[BAB|Base<br/>Attack Bonus]]<br />
! colspan="3" | [[SRD:Saving Throw|Saving Throw]]s<br />
! rowspan="2" | Special<br />
! rowspan="2" | Demonic Rush<br>Strength Bonus<br />
|-<br />
! [[SRD:Saving Throw#Fortitude|Fort]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Reflex|Ref]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Will|Will]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|1st|| class="left" | +1 || +2 || +0 || +0<br />
| class="left" | [[#Aura of Evil|Aura of Evil]], [[#Power of the Body|Power of the Body]], [[#Bigger Is Better|Bigger Is Better]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|2nd|| class="left" | +2 || +3 || +0 || +0<br />
| class="left" | [[#Demonic Rush|Demonic Rush]]<br />
| +2<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|3rd|| class="left" | +3 || +3 || +1 || +1<br />
| class="left" | [[#Mighty Swing|Mighty Swing]], [[#Damage Reduction|Damage Reduction 1/-]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|4th||class="left" | +4 || +4 || +1 || +1<br />
| class="left" | [[#Demonic Growth|Demonic Growth]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|5th||class="left" | +5 || +4 || +1 || +1<br />
| class="left" | <br />
| +4<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|6th||class="left" | +6/+1 || +5 || +2 || +2<br />
| class="left" | [[#Size Matters|Size Matters]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|7th||class="left" | +7/+2 || +5 || +2 || +2<br />
| class="left" | [[#Brimstone Body|Brimstone Body]], [[#Damage Reduction|Damage Reduction 2/-]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|8th||class="left" | +8/+3 || +6 || +2 || +2<br />
| class="left" | [[#Dire Swing|Dire Swing]]<br />
| +6<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|9th||class="left" | +9/+4 || +6 || +3 || +3<br />
| class="left" | [[#Plutonic Pillar|Plutonic Pillar]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|10th||class="left" | +10/+5 || +7 || +3 || +3<br />
| class="left" | [[#Second Skin|Second Skin]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|11th||class="left" | +11/+6/+1 || +7 || +3 || +3<br />
| class="left" | [[#Damage Reduction|Damage Reduction 3/-]]<br />
| +8<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|12th||class="left" | +12/+7/+2 || +8 || +4 || +4<br />
| class="left" | [[#The Devil's Mirror|The Devil’s Mirror]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|13th||class="left" | +13/+8/+3 || +8 || +4 || +4<br />
| class="left" | [[#Plutonic Prison|Plutonic Prison]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|14th||class="left" | +14/+9/+4 || +9 || +4 || +4<br />
| class="left" | <br />
| +10<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|15th||class="left" | +15/+10/+5 || +9 || +5 || +5<br />
| class="left" | [[#Damage Reduction|Damage Reduction 4/-]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|16th||class="left" | +16/+11/+6/+1 || +10 || +5 || +5<br />
| class="left" | [[#Stygian Steel|Stygian Steel]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|17th||class="left" | +17/+12/+7/+2 || +10 || +5 || +5<br />
| class="left" | <br />
| +12<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|18th||class="left" | +18/+13/+8/+3 || +11 || +6 || +6<br />
| class="left" | [[#Nilfheim|Nilfheim]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|19th||class="left" | +19/+14/+9/+4 || +11 || +6 || +6<br />
| class="left" | [[#Damage Reduction|Damage Reduction 5/-]]<br />
|—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|20th||class="left" | +20/+15/+10/+5 || +12 || +6 || +6<br />
| class="left" | [[#Harbinger|Harbinger]]<br />
| +14<br />
|-<br />
| colspan="42" class="skill" |<br />
'''Class Skills 2 + [[SRD:Intelligence|Int]] modifier per level, &times;4 at 1st level)'''<br/><br />
[[SRD: Bluff Skill|Bluff]] ([[SRD:Charisma|Cha]]), [[SRD:Climb Skill|Climb]] ([[SRD:Strength|Str]]), [[SRD:Craft Skill|Craft]] ([[SRD:Intelligence|Int]]), [[SRD:Handle Animal Skill|Handle Animal]] ([[SRD:Charisma|Cha]]), [[SRD:Intimidate Skill|Intimidate]] ([[SRD:Charisma|Cha]]), [[SRD:Jump Skill|Jump]] ([[SRD:Strength|Str]]), [[SRD:Knowledge Skill|Knowledge (The Planes)]] ([[SRD:Intelligence|Int]]), [[SRD:Ride Skill|Ride]] ([[SRD:Dexterity|Dex]]), [[SRD:Survival Skill|Survival]] ([[SRD:Wisdom|Wis]]), [[SRD:Swim Skill|Swim]] ([[SRD:Strength|Str]]).<br />
|}<br />
<br />
====Class Features====<br />
All of the following are class features of the blackstone knight.<br />
<br />
'''Weapon and Armor Proficiency:''' A blackstone knight is automatically proficient with all simple and martial weapons. He is also proficient with all forms of armor, but not shields.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Aura of Evil}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' The power of a blackstone knight’s aura of evil (see detect evil) is equal to half of his blackstone knight level. To such a spell, the blackstone knight always registers as evil regardless of his true alignment.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Power of the Body}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' A blackstone knight is extremely hardy, able to withstand a great deal of punishment before going down. He gains maximum hit points for every level of blackstone knight that he takes. This does not apply to any levels from any other classes or racial Hit Die.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Bigger is Better}}:''' A blackstone knight specializes in the use of the largest weapon possible. He gains Monkey Grip ([[Complete Warrior]]) as a bonus feat at 1st level, but its effects only allow him to use a larger than normal weapon in two hands. For example, a blackstone knight can wield a Huge greatsword in two hands, but cannot use a Large greatsword in one hand if his size does not normally allow him to do so.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Demonic Rush}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' Starting at second level, the blackstone knight can channel the energy of the Lower Planes through his body, sacrificing his health for temporary power. While in a demonic rush, the blackstone knight gains a bonus to Strength (see the table) and a +4 bonus on all saving throws, but takes 6 damage per round he stays in the rush as the energy causes his body to break down at an absurdly rapid pace. This damage cannot be countered by any form of damage resistance. A blackstone knight can use a demonic rush for a number of rounds per day equal to 10 + his blackstone knight level, and these rounds need not be consecutive. Starting or ending a demonic rush is a move-equivalent action. If for any reason a Blackstone Knight go to lower than 10 hitpoints he instantly leave the Demonic Rush. <br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Mighty Swing}}:''' A blackstone knight gains the [[Power Attack]] as a bonus feat at 3rd level, even if he does not meet the prerequisites. Not only can the blackstone knight reduce his base attack bonus, but he can also sacrifice his Armor Class to add even more damage to his attacks. The ratio for sacrificing Armor Class is the same as using his base attack bonus. <br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Damage Reduction}}:''' Whatever doesn’t kill you only makes you stronger. The blackstone knight gains [[damage reduction]] 1/- at third level, and this value increases by 1 every four levels up to 5/-. <br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Demonic Growth}}:''' At fourth level, a blackstone knight in a demonic rush can sacrifice 1d6 additional hit points to replicate the effects of an ''[[enlarge person]]'' spell for the duration of the current demonic rush. All of the normal procedures for the spell are followed, but this ability cannot be countered by ''[[reduce person]]'' or made permanent. <br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Size Matters}}:''' When wielding a Large size or larger weapon, a blackstone knight applies 1 ½ times his Strength bonus to damage rolls for one-handed melee attacks. If he wields the weapon in two hands, he applies double his Strength bonus to damage.<br />
<br />
'''''{{#anc:Brimstone Body}}'' ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Spell-Like|Sp]]):''' At the cost of 1d8 hit points, a 7th level blackstone knight can cover his body in a tough, red/black abyssal rock, granting him the effects of a stoneskin spell either until it absorbs the maximum amount of damage or for the duration of his current demonic rush.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Dire Swing}}:''' A blackstone knight is an expert at wielding a weapon with power by eighth level. He now gains a +3 bonus to damage for every 2 points of base attack bonus or Armor Class he gives up.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Plutonic Pillar}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Supernatural|Su]]):''' The blackstone knight gains a potent offensive weapon at 9th level, when he gains the ability to call a powerful adamantine spike from below ground during a demonic rush at the cost of 10 hit points. This column can attack any foe in contact with the ground within a radius of 10 feet per blackstone knight level, dealing 1d4 points of bludgeoning damage per level. The use of this ability is a standard action.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Second Skin}}:''' At 10th level, the blackstone knight has become so accustomed to wearing heavy armor that even his suit’s weight is inconsequential to him. He no longer takes a penalty to his movement speed when wearing armor, and can run using his normal multiplier. Other armor penalties (such as armor check penalties) still apply.<br />
<br />
'''''{{#anc:The Devil's Mirror}}'' ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Spell-Like|Sp]]):''' At 12th level, the blackstone knight can use ''[[spell turning]]'' during a demonic rush when he gives up 12 hit points. The effect functions normally, with the blackstone knight rolling to determine how many spell levels are turned.<br />
<br />
'''''{{#anc:Plutonic Prison}}'' ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Spell-Like|Sp]]):''' At 13th level, the blackstone knight may encase an opponent in stone for 20 of his own hit points, replicating the ''[[flesh to stone]]'' spell. The knight has no capability of reversing this effect.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Stygian Steel}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Supernatural|Su]]):''' At 16th level, the blackstone knight can cover his body in solid metal (like the ''[[iron body]]'' spell) for self-defense. When he uses this ability, he takes 8 damage per round he maintains the transformation. This effect immediately ends when he stops his current demonic rush, but may be resumed freely during another rush.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Nilfheim}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Supernatural|Su]]):''' The blackstone knight can make the rock and metal around his body burst forth in an explosion of destructive force. At 18th level, a knight in a demonic rush may give up 20 hit points to deal 1d6 points of damage per level (maximum 20d6) to everything in a 50-foot radius around him. If the blackstone knight uses Nilfheim, his current demonic rush immediately ends, and he cannot use his demonic rush again for 24 hours. He is also treated as [[exhausted]] until he rests for 8 full hours.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Harbinger}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' At 20th level, the blackstone knight’s power to channel fiendish energy reaches its pinnacle. He may now use either of the plutonic abilities outside of his demonic rush. He gains the [[outsider]] type (with the native subtype).<br />
<br />
====Ex-Blackstone Knights====<br />
<br />
If a blackstone knight becomes of good alignment, he cannot channel the fiendish energies that grant him strength. He loses the ability to use his demonic rush and all associated abilities. These abilities are restored to him as soon as he reverts to a non-good alignment.<br />
<br />
====Epic Blackstone Knight====<br />
<br />
{| class="{{d20}}"<br />
|+ class="epic" |<br />
The Epic Blackstone Knight<br><br />
Hit Die: d10<br />
! Level !! Special !! Demonic Rush<br>Strength Bonus<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 21st || class="left" | [[#Bonus Feats|Bonus Feat]] || class="left" |<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 22nd || class="left" | || class="left" |<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 23rd || class="left" | || class="left" |+16 <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 24th || class="left" | [[#Bonus Feats|Bonus Feat]] || class="left" |<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 25th || class="left" | || class="left" |<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 26th || class="left" | || class="left" |+18<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 27th || class="left" | [[#Bonus Feats|Bonus Feat]] || class="left" |<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 28th || class="left" | || class="left" |<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 29th || class="left" | || class="left" |+20<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 30th || class="left" | [[#Bonus Feats|Bonus Feat]] || class="left" |<br />
|-<br />
| colspan="42" class="skill" |<br />
2 + [[SRD:Intelligence|Int]] modifier skill points per level.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
'''Demonic Rush:''' An epic level blackstone knight continues to gain daily rounds for his demonic rush, allowing him to use it for longer periods of time. He also gains an additional +2 bonus to [[Strength]] during a demonic rush every three levels.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc: Bonus Feats }}:''' The epic blackstone knight gains a bonus feat (selected from the list of epic hellfire knight bonus feats) at 21st level and every three levels after.<br />
<br />
''Epic Blackstone Knight Bonus Feat List:'' [[SRD:Armor Skin|Armor Skin]], [[SRD:Damage Reduction (Feat)|Damage Reduction]], [[SRD:Epic Speed|Epic Speed]], [[SRD:Epic Toughness|Epic Toughness]], [[SRD:Fast Healing|Fast Healing]], [[SRD:Great Charisma|Great Charisma]], [[SRD:Great Strength|Great Strength]], [[SRD:Superior Initiative|Superior Initiative]]<br />
<br />
====Human Blackstone Knight Starting Package====<br />
<br />
'''Weapons:''' [[Greataxe]].<br />
<br />
'''Skill Selection:''' Pick a number of skills equal to 4 + [[Int]] modifier.<br />
<br />
{| class="{{d20}}"<br />
|-<br />
! class="left" | Skill || Ranks || Ability || Armor<br/>Check<br/>Penalty<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| class="left" | Bluff || 4 || Cha || &mdash;<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| class="left" | Intimidate || 4 || Cha || &mdash;<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| class="left" | Jump || 4 || Str || &mdash;<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| class="left" | Survival || 2 || Wis || &mdash;<br />
|}<br />
<br />
'''Feat:''' [[Improved Initiative]]<br />
<br />
'''Bonus Feats:''' [[Weapon Focus]] ([[greataxe]])<br />
<br />
'''Gear:''' Full Plate, Standard Adventurer's gear.<br />
<br />
'''Gold:''' none<br />
<br />
===Campaign Information===<br />
<br />
====Playing a Blackstone Knight====<br />
<br />
'''Religion:''' As the carriers of unearthly demonic powers, blackstone knights are often (and sometimes unwillingly) tied with cults of such entities. It is rare that they venerate or even associate themselves with good dieties, but it is not unheard of.<br />
<br />
'''Other Classes:''' Blackstone knights associate with others much like hellfire knights; due to the self-damaging nature of their abilities, they highly value clerics or any similar class with healing abilities who can keep them alive and away from their damnation for as long as possible. But the defensive and enigmatic nature of a blackstone knight is not reflected in his hellfire knight kindred, and as a result they get along with others even more poorly. A rare partnership is a blackstone knight traveling with a hellfire knight; this is not out of a particular lack of desire, but rather because of the extreme rarity of both classes. When these pairings are formed, however, the result is usually a very formidable combat tandem. On the other hand, clashes between two knights of different alignment is not unheard of, and when the combatants are powerful their duels can last for hours, razing the landscape for miles around.<br />
<br />
'''Combat:''' With his powerful defensive capabilities and aptitude for large melee weapons, the blackstone knight makes a powerful front-line combatant even without hyis demonic rush. When he channels the power at his disposal, he becomes a powerful bastion of defense that can withstand all comers.<br />
<br />
'''Advancement:''' Just as the hellfire knights worship Mephistopheles (or some other hellfire-related entity), blackstone knights worship a figure that greatly reflects their own abilities: the Iron Lord Dispater. Blackstone knights of an evil alignment often become disciples of said devil lord, while others still usually revere gods of war, reveling in bloodshed.<br />
<br />
====Blackstone Knights in the World====<br />
<br />
{{quote|''Hell is the highest reward that the devil can offer you for being a servant of his.''|orig=Tartaros, human blackstone knight}}<br />
<br />
Due to their high level of combat effectiveness without the use of their fiendish abilties, most blackstone knights can pass as fighters to the unwitting observer. Anyone with the ability to ''[[detect evil]]'' or [[detect magic|magic]], however, will find that there is much more to them than meets the eye.<br />
<br />
'''Daily Life:''' The nomadic life of a sellsword is well suited to a blackstone knight, who prefers to never stay in one place for too long. They never accept permanent deals and leave whenever they feel they have attracted too much attention to maintain the concealment of their powers.<br />
<br />
'''Notables:''' Tartaros is an old and powerful blackstone knight (BsK 22) as well as the comrade of the hellfire knight Azazel. Despite his graying hair, his body is still that of a man is his prime, and the speed in which he moves when dressed in full plate armor astounds many of his opponents.<br />
<br />
'''Organizations:''' There is never a formal organization of the blackstone knights, as a large congregation would attract the attention of fanatical demon-killers who would jump at the opportunity to kill an alleged "half-fiend".<br />
<br />
'''NPC Reactions:''' Fear and awe follow the reticent and armored blackstone knights wherever they roam. Imposing even at first glance, a blackstone knight usually fails in all attempts to blend in.<br />
<br />
====Blackstone Knight Lore====<br />
<br />
Characters with ranks in [[Knowledge]] (the planes) can research blackstone knights to learn more about them. When a character makes a skill check, read or paraphrase the following, including information from lower DCs.<br />
<br />
{| class="{{d20}}"<br />
|+ [[Knowledge]] (the planes)<br />
! DC || class="left" | Result<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 5 || class="left" | Blackstone knights are offshoots of hellfire knights with the same ability to channel fiendish energies.<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 10 || class="left" | Many blackstone knights revere gods of war, and it is reflected in their militant, mercenary attitudes.<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 15 || class="left" | Blackstone knights are very defensive in nature; they wear heavy armor in battle to work in concert with their formidable transformation capabilities.<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 20 || class="left" | Among these transformations are the ability to change size and to cover the body in living stone or metal.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
====Blackstone Knights in the Game====<br />
<br />
Blackstone knights appear to be fighters to the untrained eye; to further this deception may try to behave in the same manner as their fighter counterparts. Most blackstone knights are swords-for-hire, and can be found wherever some grisly work needs to be done.<br />
<br />
'''Adaptation:''' Almost every campaign setting has some form of the Lower Planes. Blackstone knights channel the powers of the infernal beings who reside there into their own bodies.<br />
<br />
'''Sample Encounter:''' A 9th level chaotic neutral blackstone knight travels with a band of bloodthirsty mercenaries. He cares nothing for his comrades' lives and will not use his full power until they are all dead or he is at serious risk of being slain. <br />
<br />
''EL whatever:'' <-Encounter scenario and character info on sample NPC including stat block. The CR of the NPC is typically the same as the EL for the encounter.->.<br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
[[Category:DnD]]<br />
[[Category:3.5e]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Class]]<br />
[[Category:Base Class]]<br />
[[Category:Combat-Focused]]</div>ThunderGod Cidhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=User:ThunderGod_Cid&diff=456024User:ThunderGod Cid2010-02-09T21:44:54Z<p>ThunderGod Cid: </p>
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<div>Hey everyone, this is TG Cid. I'm not really active on this Wiki anymore, but I hope you enjoy my work anyway. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 21:44, 9 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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{{Barnstar|I give you this barnstar for adding a description to many base classes and PrC, thank you you were very helpful!--[[User:Lord Dhazriel|Lord Dhazriel]] 19:12, 14 June 2009 (MDT)}}<br />
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===[[User:ThunderGod Cid/Jota & Cid|Jota & Cid]]===<br />
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'''Base Classes'''<br />
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[[Medium (3.5e Class)|Medium]]: A spiritual medium capable of communicating with the dead and channeling their emotions.<br />
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'''Prestige Classes'''<br />
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[[Battōsai (3.5e Prestige Class)|Battōsai]]: An evolution of the tenken or a similar fighter that creates a single devastating attack by drawing the blade from its sheath.<br />
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===My Contributions===<br />
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'''Base Classes:'''<br />
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[[Jigyousho (3.5e Class)|Jigyousho]]: Controller and user of plants<br />
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[[Frost Knight (3.5e Class)|Frost Knight]]: Cold variant of [[User:Jota|Jota's]] [[Flare Knight (3.5e Class)|Flare Knight]] class.<br />
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[[Hellfire Knight (3.5e Class)|Hellfire Knight]]: A warrior who channels the power of the Lower Planes and manifests it as hellfire.<br />
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[[Blackstone Knight (3.5e Class)|Blackstone Knight]]: Adopted, a defensive variant of the Hellfire Knight.<br />
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[[Empusar (3.5e Class)|Empusar]]: A mortal (at least at first) kind of succubus/demon with a variety of different powers<br />
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[[Ochremancer (3.5e Class)|Ochremancer]]: Transforms into an ooze (inspired by Eiji's [[Oozebound (3.5e Prestige Class)|Oozebound]] prestige class)<br />
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[[Tenken (3.5e Class)|Tenken]]: My take on the fast moving [[Dexterity]]-based fighter class<br />
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[[Mystic Blade (3.5e Class)|Mystic Blade]]: Adopted, a base class alternative to the spellsword.<br />
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[[Bard, Variant (3.5e Class)|Bard]]: A bard that doesn't suck.<br />
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[[Savage (3.5e Class)|Savage]]: A barbarian variant that wears no armor and sacrifices defense for tremendous physical might.<br />
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'''Prestige Classes:''' <br />
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[[Adipose Avatar (3.5e Prestige Class)|Adipose Avatar]]: A humanoid-turned-monster who suffers from eternal starvation.<br />
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[[Flying Archer (3.5e Prestige Class)|Flying Archer]]: Adopted, a bowman who gains wings and an unusual shooting technique.<br />
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[[Twisted Visage (3.5e Prestige Class)|Twisted Visage]]: Adopted; a master of fear able to transform into a creature of death.<br />
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[[Pariah (3.5e Prestige Class)|Pariah]]: Adopted; a wicked mortal who becomes an insidious fiend complete with massive claws.<br />
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'''Monsters:'''<br />
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[[Hydravise (3.5e Creature)]]<br />
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'''Feats'''<br />
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''Jigyousho Feats''<br />
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[[Miracle-Gro (3.5e Feat)]]<br />
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[[Potent Rageplant (3.5e Feat)]]<br />
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[[Improved Synthesis (3.5e Feat)]]<br />
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[[Improved Rose Whip (3.5e Feat)]]<br />
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[[Evolution of the Species (3.5e Feat)]]<br />
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''Frost Knight Feats''<br />
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[[Bitter Cold (3.5e Feat)]]<br />
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[[Frozen In Time (3.5e Feat)]]<br />
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[[Hypothermia (3.5e Feat)]]<br />
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[[Improved Aurora (3.5e Feat)]]<br />
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[[Shield Sledding (3.5e Feat)]]<br />
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[[Curse of Cocytus (3.5e Feat)]]<br />
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''Ochremancer Feats''<br />
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[[Rancorous Sludge (3.5e Feat)]]<br />
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''Tenken Feats''<br />
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[[Slash Step (3.5e Feat)]]<br />
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[[Sweeping Slash (3.5e Feat)]]<br />
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[[Slice & Dice (3.5e Feat)]]<br />
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'''Other'''<br />
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[[Eldritch Beam (DnD Invocation)]]<br />
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[[Pseudologia Fantastica (DnD Flaw)]]<br />
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[[Gender Bender (3.5e Equipment)]]<br />
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===In The Works===<br />
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Clod - The epitome of stupidity who probably doesn't know what "epitome" means<br />
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Puppeteer - Others have this same idea, but I can dream, right?<br />
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Eagle Sniper - distance archer who uses an eagle companion as a spotter<br />
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Halberdier - a fighter that specializes in tripping his opponents and finishing them while they're down <br />
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Phantasmer - As the name suggests, a specialist in illusions and the phantasm subschool<br />
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Mediator - Charisma-based class that uses charms and smooth speaking skills<br />
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Zealot - combat-oriented cleric variant, not so much spellcasting<br />
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Thunderhead - Druid variant, emphasizes controlling the weather<br />
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''Rurouni Kenshin'' PrC's - If you can't tell from the tenken class, I'm a pretty big fan of the aformentioned manga/anime series (perhaps known to some as ''Samurai X''). As a result, I have been working on prestige classes to convert certain unique aspects of ''Rurouni Kenshin'' to 3.5e. The battosai is my first attempt, and more will likely come in the future.</div>ThunderGod Cidhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=D%26D_Wiki:Requests_for_Adminship/Ganteka2&diff=456023D&D Wiki:Requests for Adminship/Ganteka22010-02-09T21:40:39Z<p>ThunderGod Cid: /* Ganteka */</p>
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<div>===[[Requests for Adminship/Ganteka2|Ganteka]]===<br />
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:[[Requests for Adminship/Ganteka2|Ganteka]][[User:Ganteka|'s]] Nomination.<br />
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'''[{{fullurl:Requests for Adminship/Ganteka2|action=edit}} Voice your opinion]'''<br />
'''(0/3/2) 0% Approval; Ending 22:00, 10 January 2009 (MST)'''<br />
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I am re-nominating Ganteka for adminship since he/she has willfully disregarded D&D Wiki's deletion policies a few times over [http://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&limit=500&type=delete&user=Ganteka&hide_patrol_log=1&month=&year=] (more exactly [http://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=delete&user=Ganteka&page=&year=2009&month=4]). As can be evidenced on the policy page on [[:Category:Candidates for Deletion]] it has no correlation to Wikipedia's deletion policies and Ganteka drew a correlation where none is on a number of pages. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 05:15, 4 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:Candidates Prelude<br />
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;Questions for the candidate<br />
Dear candidate, thank you for offering to serve D&D Wiki in this capacity. Please take the time to answer a few generic questions to provide guidance for voters:<br />
:'''1.''' What sysop chores do you anticipate helping with? Please read the page about [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators administrators] and the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_reading_list administrators' reading list] on Wikipedia before answering.<br />
::'''A:''' <!--Nominee answers here--><br />
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:'''2.''' Of your articles or contributions to D&D Wiki, are there any with which you are particularly pleased, and why?<br />
::'''A:''' <!--Nominee answers here--><br />
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:'''3.''' Have you been in any conflicts over editing in the past or do you feel other users have caused you stress? How have you dealt with it and how will you deal with it in the future?<br />
::'''A:''' <!--Nominee answers here--><br />
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<!-- IMPORTANT: Only registered D&D Wikians may comment in the "support", "oppose" or "neutral" sections. Non-registered users or editors who are not logged in are welcome to participate in the "comments" and "questions" sections. --><br />
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'''Discussion''' <br />
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I probably did disregard Wikipedia's deletion policies when I made deletions to articles. That would be a problem if the policy given to all admins instructed them to follow Wikipedia's deletion policies. It would also be a problem if those policies were posted on [[:Category:Candidates for Deletion]] (you may have to check the history of that page to see the exact wording at the time I was an active admin: 4 November 2008 - 10 August 2009). Here's the deletion policy given to all admins taken directly from [[User_talk:Ganteka#Adminship|my talk page]] in a message from [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]]:<br />
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*Deleting pages is normally done through [[:Category:Candidates for Deletion]]. Anything with a good reason to be deleted on that page should be deleted. The other time pages should be deleted is when someone makes a certain page and after a few edits they either blank the page or replace it with something like "Please delete this". They don't want to work on it, and unless it is really well made and fleshed out, just delete it.<br />
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Cleaning out the [[:Category:Candidates for Deletion]] is a pretty thankless job. It takes a lot of hours and a lot of patience. A lot of times, it's a tough judgement call if something is salvageable or not without total re-writes from a blank slate by a new author. Thankfully though, things are archived and can be rolled-back if necessary. To conclude, yes, I knowingly followed the policy given out by [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] and not Wikipedia's deletion policy.<br />
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Because of [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]]'s poor managerial qualities, I no longer wish to be part of this wiki. <br />
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I request that my adminship be removed. --[[User:Ganteka|Ganteka]] 07:18, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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<code>"''Because of [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]]'s poor managerial qualities''" (direct rudeness: belittling a fellow editor) (1:1).</code> --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:14, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:[http://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Category:Candidates_for_Deletion&oldid=289063 Revision as of 09:41, 27 October 2008]. And as an admin you should know ''any'' policy on D&D Wiki (implied or not) overrides an off-site policy which is related.<br />
:Also what are you talking about?<br />
:{{quote|Deleting pages is normally done through [[:Category:Candidates for Deletion]]. Anything with a good reason to be deleted on that page should be deleted. The other time pages should be deleted is when someone makes a certain page and after a few edits they either blank the page or replace it with something like "Please delete this". They don't want to work on it, and unless it is really well made and fleshed out, just delete it.}}<br />
:is not saying "''delete whatever someone tells you to delete''". Do you understand?<br />
:"''and unless it is ... fleshed out''" Do you understand? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:14, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::Warning somebody who says they are leaving because of an opinion that somebody is of poor quality is generally a poor managerial decision, especially when said warner is the one being talked about. Furthermore, warning somebody when they wish to leave the wiki is a useless act. As such, warning me would be such a useless act. [[User:Havvy|Havvy]] 09:26, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:<code>"''[He giving warnings] ... of poor quality''" (direct rudeness: personal attacks) (1:1).</code> --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:28, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::Wrong. Warnings are systematic. There are reasons as to when a contributor's actions warrant a warning and there is a systematic approach present to make it so contributors are treated equally. Making it so if one insults a certain given user and is not therefore, systematically, punished would result in a bias on D&D Wiki's part. See also the [[Warning Policy]]. I am a user just like you. That person belittled me. Belittling a fellow contributor results in a warning. Warnings are not arbitrary.<br />
:::Do you understand why what you are talking about would result in a totalitarian state ("''a government that subordinates the individual to the state and strictly controls all aspects of life by coercive measures [http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=totalitarian%20state])''"? D&D Wiki is not such since a system with a systematic approach is in place and the administration makes sure that is used throughout and policies govern all. And policies, the administration, etc can be discussed by anyone.<br />
:::The D&D Wiki administration does not want an arbitrary warning system in place to result in bias and unfairness. A systematic approach is in place as such. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:20, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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'''Support'''<br />
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'''Oppose'''<br />
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As stated above. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 05:15, 4 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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Ganteka's statements seem clear that he no longer wishes to be an admin, and as such it is in the best interest of both the site and Ganteka to honor that wish. Thanks for time served. &nbsp;<small><span style="border: 1px solid black; -moz-border-radius:10px">[[User:Hooper|'''<span style="background-color:White; color:Black; -moz-border-radius-topleft:10px; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:10px"> Hooper </span>''']][[User talk:Hooper|<span style="background-color:Black; color:white; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:10px; -moz-border-radius-topleft:10px">&nbsp;&nbsp;talk&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|<span style="background-color:black; color:white">&nbsp;&nbsp;contribs&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|<span style="background-color:black; color:white; -moz-border-radius-bottomright:10px; -moz-border-radius-topright:10px">&nbsp;&nbsp;email&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]]</span></small> 07:36, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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Considering Ganteka's statement that he does not wish to remain an admin, I support relinquishing the status. --[[User:Harry Mason|Harry Mason]] 09:32, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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'''Neutral'''<br />
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I have no care who is an admin here. I just wish to point out things that some people seem to be missing. [[User:Havvy|Havvy]] 09:26, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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I am also ambivalent as to the result of this farce. Given that the nominee has already expressly denied any interest in returning to his previous position (or even to a lesser, active role at this site), this whole thing is little more than an exercise in futility. The same applies for similar votes concerning other former admins who have been renominated and cut down by a hardly unbiased party. Since the only person's vote who really matters anymore is GD's (since this site is apparently a totalitarian state and not even a benevolent dictatorship) and he has consistently been putting his vote of opposition on these pages from the get-go, what anyone else posts to this page and others like it is completely and totally irrelevant. GD has closed his mind to the arguments of those who have left, and those with grievances have moved on. There really isn't a need to bring up such old news with such a trivial frivolity. Please, stop wasting all our time. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 15:19, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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<code>"''Since the only person's vote who really matters anymore is GD's (since this site is apparently a totalitarian state and not even a benevolent dictatorship)''", "''... what anyone else posts to this page and others like it is completely and totally irrelevant.''", and "''GD has closed his mind to the arguments of those who have left, and those with grievances have moved on. There really isn't a need to bring up such old news with such a trivial frivolity. Please, stop wasting all our time.''" (direct rudeness: rudeness, personal attacks, belittling a fellow editor) (1:1).</code> --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:20, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:"''Given that the nominee has already expressly denied any interest in returning to his previous position (or even to a lesser, active role at this site), this whole thing is little more than an exercise in futility.''" does not mean D&D Wiki will circumvent the Request for Adminship method. The method is in place and one cannot just circumvent it (that would result in a totalitarian state - which D&D Wiki is not).<br />
:Power to the people.<br />
:Do you not like how [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] is handling RfA'a and think he is not following the below?<br />
:{{quote|The numbers of people supporting, opposing, or expressing another opinion on a candidacy are a significant factor in determining consensus, as such few RfAs succeed with less than 75% support, but a request for adminship is not a ballot; only consensus (as determined by a bureaucrat) must be achieved: the reasons and evidence given during the RfA may sway others, and participants communication with the candidate may change ones position during the decision period.}}<br />
:{{quote|Any editor in good standing may nominate any other editor or him/herself.}}<br />
:Then renominate his for bureaucrat (RfB on the RfA page for now).<br />
:During an RfA the people have the choice.<br />
:{{quote|Any editor in good standing may nominate any other editor or him/herself.}}<br />
:{{quote|<br />
* '''Who may participate''': Any user in good standing is welcome to participate in discussions on candidates.<br />
<br />
* '''Who may comment in the Support, Oppose and Neutral sections''': Any D&D Wikian with an account is welcome to comment here, except for the candidate (who may respond to comments by others). Certain comments may be discounted or removed if there are suspicions of fraud; these may be the contributions of ''very new editors'' or [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sock_puppetry sockpuppets], as well as [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sock_puppetry#Meatpuppets meatpuppetry] and other activity that may be the result of an illegitimate attempt to shift the balance of opinion.}}<br />
:To recap look at the percentages of the renominations. The aforementioned admins have not gotten the needed majority on their renomination. As such they were denominated. Do you understand the process now? Each vote is something. Do you understand the process now?<br />
:And a totalitarian state does not have policies discussed by people for themselves, a system where anyone can become in charge and conversely anyone in charge can be demoted because of bad practice, etc. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:20, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::It says at the top of this page that ''"[Green Dragon is] re-nominating Ganteka for adminship since he/she has willfully disregarded D&D Wiki's deletion policies a few times over."'' I won't even go back to the fact that Ganteka already refused to accept adminship even if he acquired a majority supporting vote (which he wouldn't, considering the only people still active enough to have an opinion that will actually mean something who remain in "good standing" are yourself and Hooper). Renominating someone for a position from which they have already been denied the benefits on the ''basis'' that they violated a responsibility that was already revoked from their rights is not due process. You are claiming to follow due process by creating this page, when in truth you are using it as an opportunity to demean the people who disagreed with you in the first place by making accusations of opposition to your ruling. Persecution of opposition is one of the very facets of a totalitarian state, which is what this place is (not what it should be, but what it is). <br />
::The users who were here before the actions that you took to send them away operated under the assumption that you would condone (or at the very least consider) anything that they discussed and agreed upon as a committee. Judging by the [[User talk:Green Dragon#What the Hell|response]] and results of said response, it's painfully clear that this site doesn't have policies discussed by the people. It has '''''your''''' policies, to which there is no flexibility or deviation. That is totalitarian rule.<br />
::It's not that I don't understand this process. If anything, the process is a sham because you say you are following a process that has democratic implications (ie the people vote, etc.), which is obviously a falsehood. What I fail to comprehend is the purpose of following through with this alleged "process" when all pretense of fair and just decision-making is thrown away from the beginning. In short, it really doesn't matter that this is a ballot when, in the end, you are the sole purveyor of privilege. You alone have the power to grant and take away user rights, which you use as your "big stick" to cow others into falling into step with you. How is that anything but an iron-fisted dictatorship? - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 23:00, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::What are you talking about? Ganteka is, right now, an admin and was all along. Have you ever taken a look at [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]? See that name there: [[User:Ganteka|Ganteka]] ([[D&D Wiki:Administrators|Administrator]]). That means Ganteka is an admin (an admin as defined by [[Special:ListGroupRights]] - "Administrator"). This is ''exactly'' why I am renominating him/her for adminship, since he/she broke policies. Why can ''I''? I am a person like you too.<br />
:::{{quote|Any editor in good standing may nominate any other editor or him/herself.}}<br />
:::"''(which he wouldn't, considering the only people still active enough to have an opinion that will actually mean something who remain in "good standing" are yourself and Hooper)''" obviously not. The votes above are all factored in (e.g. do you see the '''(0/3/2)''' above? That means 5 votes have been factored into this so far). When someone is not in good standing (e.g. Sockputtetry, etc) their vote would be disregarded above (and said). Understand?<br />
:::"''Renominating someone for a position from which they have already been denied the benefits on the ''basis'' that they violated a responsibility that was already revoked from their rights is not due process.''" they are still an admin by the way... That is this process...<br />
:::"''The users who were here before the actions that you took to send them away operated under the assumption that you would condone (or at the very least consider) anything that they discussed and agreed upon as a committee. Judging by the [[User talk:Green Dragon#What the Hell|response]] and results of said response, it's painfully clear that this site doesn't have policies discussed by the people. It has '''''your''''' policies, to which there is no flexibility or deviation. That is totalitarian rule.''" - good point but wrong. The system was discussed - those were people who just did not understand that they have to "win" the argument to have their system considered. They did not - ever. If a system does not logically work then it will not become a system on D&D Wiki. That is a given.<br />
:::To recap: something has to ''work'' to work on D&D Wiki. What defines work? Discussions and logic.<br />
:::Someone needs to change one's user privileges. If I have overstepped my power then I should be RfB'ed (and/or RfA'ed depending on the power - like in this Ganteka case right here). I have followed the majority rules to the letter so far - so what are you talking about? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 00:10, 8 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::If he is still listed as an admin, then what is the purpose of this page? You say he has not been stripped of any user rights, yet you make a page that re-nominates him for adminship. This page is essentially ineffectual (merely preserving the status quo) unless you plan on taking these rights away from Ganteka. If that is the case, you have never needed needed a ballot to remove another user's rights before to my knowledge, therefore you would not be following the process outlined by the creation of this page. Unless a process is needed to remove someone's rights, this page serves no real purpose.<br />
::::As for the previous situation with something that "works", it reflects negatively on you that you deleted the work of your most trusted user base (which I would have to assume they were, since many of them were given adminship) without consulting them beforehand. I understand that you could have reviewed it yourself and found some potential flaws, but that does not justify deletion without an attempt at compromise. It would have been prudent to be more open-minded in that situation, given that the proposal was intended to recognize and deal with the problems in the current Rating System that were agreed upon by some of the most active and comprehensive-minded folks on the site. Any discrepancies you may have had could easily have been dealt with in a manner that would not have provoked such an outburst; surely you could have anticipated that no one would ever react well so such a flat rejection of something that they thought was in the best interests of the collective. Basically (and I do '''''not''''' intend for this to be a personal slight), I think the whole situation was poorly handled and made you come across as a petty and inconsiderate tyrant who is unwilling to listen to the ideas of others. This functional fixedness reflects more poorly on you than most of those who disagreed with you, and the bans made on users who voiced their disagreement increased the perception that you were using the situation as an opportunity to attack the users themselves rather than their ideas. What started as a conflict of ideologies became an embittered series of personal slights, which ended up with the exodus of users and all that jazz. While I understand that you are trying to maintain process, continuing to bring up the past actions of users who have already left the site does not place you in the most flattering light. They have (for the most part) moved on and have little desire to come back to revive old arguments. I think it would be in everyone's best interests if you were to focus on fostering your new user base and cleaning up the lesser quality stuff that has piled up due to the lack of new adminship (the whole purpose of bestowing adminship, after all, would be to divide the workload of managing this site) instead of re-nominating old admins with the express purpose of not reinstating them. <br />
::::Please do not mistake my intent; I do not want to reopen old wounds. I just want this whole saga to be over with--to get a firm and lasting resolution--once and for all. You can keep any reservations you have about particular users, just as they may keep about you; I am not going to try and dissuade either side from giving up their beliefs. Both parties have basically agreed to disagree, if only indirectly; the fact that they have their site and you have yours (which operate fully independently of each other) is proof enough of that. But publicly dissing someone who is not even active on your site any more makes you appear fixated on the previous conflict than on moving forward. That's not what's best for D&D Wiki, or for any of us. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 01:37, 8 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::::Wow... please look more into issues before commenting. This, like many many other nominations of others, is to see if the community deems this person admin-worthy. See [[Requests for Adminship]] for a complete list of the nominations (re, repeat, base, etc).<br />
:::::"''You say he has not been stripped of any user rights''"... no I ''showed'' you he is still one.<br />
:::::"''you have never needed needed a ballot to remove another user's rights before to my knowledge, therefore you would not be following the process outlined by the creation of this page. Unless a process is needed to remove someone's rights, this page serves no real purpose.''" so you ''do not'' know D&D Wiki's systems and probably do think about totalitarian things. Instead of saying "wrong wrong" you should have brought up that point to see the truth - that would be a totalitarian system if it was so (e.g. "I don't like that person. And... stripped of powers." This page is exactly why it is not like that.). Do you understand what I am saying?<br />
:::::"''your most trusted user base''". There is no such thing. If you do not know D&D Wiki's uerbase you can take a look at [[Special:ListUsers]]. For the most part I (this is not everyone!) just trust a user as much as his/her RfA states.<br />
:::::"''I understand that you could have reviewed it yourself and found some potential flaws, but that does not justify deletion without an attempt at compromise.''". [[Template:Delete]] was added to the page. Like many things during that time, which I regret now, it was speedily deleted. However you can see the top of the page to see that, lo and behold yes, [[Template:Delete]] was added. Your untrusting attitude to MediaWiki is bizarre to say the least. Take a look.<br />
:::::"''they thought was in the best interests of the collective.''" key word ''thought'' and I refuted it was not. They never refuted that. So no cigar.<br />
:::::"''I think the whole situation was poorly handled and made you come across as a petty and inconsiderate tyrant who is unwilling to listen to the ideas of others.''" as I have said in other places "''The blocked users broke rules. The blocked users got punished as a result. Other then that nothing happened. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 04:35, 22 January 2010 (UTC)''"<br />
:::::"''to attack the users themselves rather than their ideas. What started as a conflict of ideologies became an embittered series of personal slights, ...''" Huh? And I have yet to do that... I just talked about their ideas. Research before posting nonsense.<br />
:::::"''your new user base''". Huh ([[Special:ListUsers]])? "''Cleaning up the lesser quality stuff that has piled up due to the lack of new adminship (the whole purpose of bestowing adminship, after all, would be to divide the workload of managing this site) instead of re-nominating old admins with the express purpose of not reinstating them. ''" Not necessarily. Adminship is a wide range of things. Users can do things too... Do you understand?<br />
:::::"''But publicly dissing someone who is not even active on your site any more makes you appear fixated on the previous conflict than on moving forward.''" - '''For the last time this person is being renominated for adminsip. Meaning that this person is currently an admin. As such, as with many before (starting with Pz.Az.04Maus) this is the method to see if the community deems them admin-worthy as that decision determines userrights for the individual.''' I find that this is the main point you are missing. Do you understand what I am saying? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 02:07, 8 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::::Apparently I do not understand what you are saying. At this point, nor do I care to, since you have repeated it so many times it is like a power drill boring a hole into my temple. But you are also ignoring the point that I am trying to make, which is that this process you are invoking is at this point ineffectual. You have no other users who are qualified to comment on Ganteka's adminship, since they were either not sufficiently involved in any of the previous altercations between yourself and the other admins to understand the significance of Ganteka'a actions or the motives behind them (your explanation, as an partial party, is insufficient evidence, especially since you have already clearly voiced your opinion). Even if someone were of the persuasion to agree to side with Ganteka, your previous treatment of those who have opposed you does not exactly portray you as an accepting and open-minded person. Most users not already committed against you would more than likely be deterred from voicing their opinions. You have effectively alienated anyone who would dare to disagree with you, resulting in a system where despite all your advocating for the opinions of others you are actually propogating a system in which everyone will side with you out of fear of drawing your ire.<br />
::::::Consistently repeating "We use logic here," is hardly a pure condemnation of one's ideas. There's no point in research because there is nothing in those pages worthy of note. You gave no satisfactory reasoning for why the opposition was wrong; you merely insisted that they were in the wrong and you in the right, just as you are doing now.<br />
::::::Posting a list of your users doesn't prove anything. Your "new user base" would have to be a new group of users that you can actually trust to not post utter crap. That's what separated the exiled group from the rest. Despite whatever you might say, they knew what they were doing (that's why people voted for them to be admins). Excommunicating them in the manner that you did has left you without anyone recognized for their ability to bring quality to this Wiki. Without a supply of fresh homebrew, the site will continue to deteriorate (and trust me, it '''''has''''' deteriorated).<br />
::::::Yeah, users can do things, but giving someone adminship status should show that they have your backing. And as far as Wiki maintenance goes, the typcial user can basically post on the talk page and add templates. And...that's it as far as meaningful things go. Without an admin to actively sift through everything, nothing would get done. I think it has shown with the low amount of maintenance that has (or perhaps has not) occurred since.<br />
::::::I honestly was trying to be sincere, but you are frankly being a real cold fish, too entrapped by your misgivings to see that you have essentially killed your credibility. I'll admit freely that there are lots of things I do not understand. The most prominent of which is why you are so stubbornly clinging to the assertion that your actions were in the best interests of your site when it is clear that you have committed (at least as far as this Wiki goes) political suicide. You mentioned earlier that it was odd that I am mistrusting of MediaWiki. Honestly, it's not that I don't trust MediaWiki. '''''I just don't trust you.''''' And based on your previous handling of those who had willingly helped you make D&D Wiki was it was in its prime (a time that probably predates my arrival), it seems difficult to imagine that anyone else will either. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 03:21, 8 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::::::"''You have no other users who are qualified to comment on Ganteka's adminship''". One I do not "''have''" users. Users are by in themselves. Also, to the best of my knowledge, users do not comment much on RfA's. The highest users on RfA's was Ganteka's with 18. The average is probably somewhere around 7. So this, at 5 people giving opinions so far, is not too bad off. Still has time too.<br />
:::::::"''since they were either not sufficiently involved in any of the previous altercations between yourself and the other admins to understand the significance of Ganteka'a actions or the motives behind them (your explanation, as an partial party, is insufficient evidence, especially since you have already clearly voiced your opinion). Even if someone were of the persuasion to agree to side with Ganteka, ...''" Discussions are not deleted on D&D Wiki.<br />
:::::::"''fear of drawing your ire''" - I don't think anyone really is... maybe, who knows. I have yet to ban someone without a reason. I mostly only argue (like here) to make people see how things are, etc. Maybe though, who knows. Some people email me when they are confused and I explain things. Maybe though.<br />
:::::::About the "do research part". I meant if you are going to say something about someone (me in this instance - like you did above to which I stated the correction) you need to cite areas and ''prove'' it. For example - Have I ever sworn on D&D Wiki? Yes, like 2938 times. No, not once. Yes, in a revision history and in a few edit summaries ([[User Talk: Eiji#Farmer]] revisions, and see edit contributions for edit summaries - "damn" was used, although not derogatory). Which are you going to trust? You are coming across as the first option right now. Check them all out, see what I mean?<br />
:::::::"''adminship status should show that they have your backing''". Nope. Peoples backing, I only correspond to one vote (one of those number on the top).<br />
:::::::"''political suicide''" - I actually don't care... This site is not "risky" for me, I don't need to step around on tiptoes. I don't care. I own the damn thing. Think of it in a realistic way, since it is. If someone says "No" then so be it. If they hack my account and log in as me and edit away I can change my password back-end and clean it up. Do you understand what I mean by "''in a realistic way''"?<br />
:::::::Mistrust of MediaWiki came from the fact that you seemed to not trust [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]].<br />
:::::::You seem to be of the opinion that only admins can change things. One look at modern pages such as [[4e Races]]. Changed mainly only by users (with the pages improved upon), same with [[All 4e Deities]], etc. Admins are not the "doers" of D&D Wiki; everyone is. It's a wiki. Admins serve the functions as described by [[Special:ListGroupRights]]; not some arbitrary idea(s) you have in your head.<br />
:::::::I suggest you take a look at [[Requests for Adminship/Aarnott2]]. These people only contributed to about 7% of the activity of D&D Wiki. That's not "prime" and "perfection" that's 7%. Please, once again, do research before presenting things. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 04:46, 8 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::::::'''I do not "''have''" users. Users are by in themselves.''' How can you say this when the whole site is yours (I refer to when you just said ''"I own the damn thing."''), and is therefore an extension of you? Because the site is yours, you have the power to grant or deny privileges and access as you see fit. Therefore, even though users can choose to join or leave of their own accord, anyone currently present is here because you allow them to be. So yeah, you do "have" users because this site has users and is an extension of you. This site is not an island to which the average person does not have access; it is a Wiki, which means that it relies on the participation of users to contribute information (or, as is the case here, original material). But I digress. The point is you have users and, despite your claims to the contrary, they are only here so long as you deem it so and can be blocked at your whim without any legitimate chance for appeal unless you have a change of heart (which, given your streak of stubbornness, appears highly unlikely).<br />
::::::::When I said you had committed political suicide, you claimed to not care. I believe you. But as I outlined above, a Wiki relies on the contributions of the users who frequent it. Basically, you need us (us being the non-privileged users and anyone other than you) whether you realize it or not to actually have a properly functioning Wiki. If people are unwilling to trust you (like how I don't trust you, given that you seem to have the reasoning of a headless cockroach), then they will be more complacent about putting things on the Wiki, and the site will suffer. You can thrust your list of user activity at me all you want and claim that it proves people are still posting, but I would be willing to bet that there has not been one legitimate good quality homebrew article since the mass exodus of your former users. I would like to point out, for the record, that the [[Celestial Dire Lion (3.5e Creature)|celestial dire lion]]--the featured article before last--was made by [[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] and the [[Rock Worm (3.5e Creature)|rock worm]]--the current featured article--was only made an FA due to your insistence and your changes (I refer you to the revision history of that page--most of the edits are yours--and the talk page which explicitly states "I [Green Dragon] do not feel this article [i.e. the original version before your intervention] is currently featured article material").<br />
::::::::Even though you may claim that adminship only gives someone the people's backing and not yours as well, then the ability to grant and revoke priviliges should be in the people's hands, not yours. If you truly wished to veto the votes of the people, you can, and you have done so (such as when you deleted what would have been a formal proposal from some of your admins and other users suggesting a revision of the Ratings System, which you used your autocratic powers to destroy). There are no checks and balances here; it's your way or the Internet super-highway. I am not advocating that there should be any balance of power (although it would be nice); I am just tired of seeing you flip-flop between 'Here I am, all responsive and letting people vote,' and 'This is my site. Deal with it.' And for God's sake, don't feed me some BS about how what they thought was right was in fact wrong; you are just too stubborn to try and make an improvement on a markedly flawed system (the specifics of which I will not go into since it has been debated many times over to no avail). <br />
::::::::I am not of the opinion that admins do everything. I know (because it's true) that the task of actually doing meaningful things (like deleting pages and preventing wastes of bandwidth from remaining in existence) falls to admins because normal users lack those privileges.<br />
::::::::I am no Wiki expert nor have I ever claimed to be, but stating that the users on the so-called "Ratings Committee" account for only 7 percent of Wiki editing and assuming that that means your production of good work will continue is like having Monet in an art class of first-grade retards and assuming that when Monet leaves your class will still have someone capable of producing good art. It's the worthwhile stuff that matters, and the 7% that those 9 or so people contributed is probably (in a purely non-mathematical guesstimate) over half of the stuff that is good. Measuring their production against all Wiki production is futile, since you have no way of separating what is good from what is not. The period in which these users were active (and in which most of these good articles were being posted) would be considered your "prime" (I would never be so conceited as to use the word "perfection") in my opinion. If the activity feed also took bot-editing into account (which probably accounts for a greater percentage of activity than anything else), then your stat would be even more skewed and less reliable. Rationalize it however you want; you lost your best people, and that's the truth.<br />
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::::::::By the way, go ahead and give me a warning if it suits your fancy. I can see at least three instances where what I said could be construed as rude. Take your pick. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 19:09, 8 February 2010 (UTC) <br />
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:::::::<code>"... you seem to have the reasoning of a headless cockroach) ...''" (direct rudeness: name-calling) --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:45, 8 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::::::::The "committee" was in all entirely only discussed as a method and the people therein were never discussed. This is comparable to a self-appointed oligarchy and ideas of "people need the power" and "systems should be able to be discussed" (as is the case in this current system) would never work as such. Do you not understand that that in itself that is a contradiction to how you see it? Since D&D Wiki uses democratic ideas with regards to many aspects that was why this, truly, totalitarian state idea was speedily deleted.<br />
:::::::::"''I do not "have" users. Users are by in themselves.''" meaning people are not slaves and I do not own them. Freedom. Can I have users deleted, etc? Yes. Does this mean that I "have them"? No. More accurately: Would I? No, as I see it everything (and I am of the impression that everything can) should be run openly and changes back-end need to be displayed. A good example is [[User:Mythos Specialist|Mythos Specialist]] (now [[User:Danzig Nyttafjell|Danzig Nyttafjell]]) has been emailing me (and on my talk page) about his user-switch. We came to the conclusion the best course of action would be to have his accounts merged. Would that be okay to just do it? No. People need to know what is going on. I am waiting to create an area dealing with users, etc, and then do the switch and post it there. Do you understand what I mean?<br />
:::::::::Good quality homebrew is always and has always been added. Each person has something to contribute. They honestly only accounted for 7%, that's 7%. I see no other fair way of looking at it. <br />
:::::::::Adminship is checked by rules as worded on [[RfA]]. A 75% majority is (normally) needed. Maybe you are referring to how a bureaucrat can circumvent this system in instances?<br />
:::::::::And, currently, with MediaWiki "the people" cannot elect users. Theoretically, does it make sense? I do not think so since I think that users can just oversee and make a point if their is a problem. Could this lead to problems? Yes, I was very worried about such occurrences in the instance where I got banned, unjustly, from D&D Wiki. Will it? No. I have been following the system (75%) and for the most part listen to reason. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:45, 8 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::::::This conversation is not relevant to the issue at hand. Please, lets stay on topic. This is not a discussion forum. &nbsp;<small><span style="border: 1px solid black; -moz-border-radius:10px">[[User:Hooper|'''<span style="background-color:White; color:Black; -moz-border-radius-topleft:10px; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:10px"> Hooper </span>''']][[User talk:Hooper|<span style="background-color:Black; color:white; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:10px; -moz-border-radius-topleft:10px">&nbsp;&nbsp;talk&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|<span style="background-color:black; color:white">&nbsp;&nbsp;contribs&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|<span style="background-color:black; color:white; -moz-border-radius-bottomright:10px; -moz-border-radius-topright:10px">&nbsp;&nbsp;email&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]]</span></small> 00:40, 9 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::::::::::On the contrary, I find what we are discussing to be quite on topic, since we are essentially discussing the reasons for this renomination to be necessary in the first place (i.e. the disagreements over the Ratings Committee and the alleged issue of oligarchy vs free posting). Besides, this argument doesn't need you; GD is doing just fine without the help of his lapdog (unwanted, I'm sure). Back to that matter, I think (just me, I don't specifically speak for anyone else nor will I on this particular issue) that the idea of allowing anyone to rate, while admirable, is highly impractical. This has been demonstrated by the many ratings that were deleted or nullified due to a lack of justification, disagreements over certain ideas (such as Hooper's contentious assertion that what the former users created overpowered content--'''"ha, 'best people'??!?!?! If that means one or two good users and a slew of internet tough guys making OP content, then yes"''') or just general idiocy on the part of the rater(s). As good as the site would be if it was so, not everyone is equally qualified to rate stuff. Some people go about it logically and apply it to real game situations that might actually be encountered (unless, apparently, you play in Hooper's game) while others just put down their rating and say "this is OP" or soemthing similar without any reasoning or signs of intelligent thought. The Ratings Committee was meant to address that, and it's not like they wouldn't have been receptive enough to take other people in; anyone who displays adequate reasoning and knowledge could be on the RC. It's just a way of winnowing out the people who are grossly incompetent.<br />
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:::::::::::I also disagree with the idea that a Ratings Committee would discount the opinions of the people not on it. If anything, having a select group of people would probably be more receptive since you can get the support of one of them to get a good debate on it. Here, if it doesn't fly with you, it's gone. <br />
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:::::::::::I would be inclined to agree that banning you from your own site was a little overzealous, but no one reacts well to being pushed around. No one. So it shouldn't surprise you that they would want to send you a message, especially since Aarnott was almost certainly aware that it would be little more than a minor inconvenience to you (which apparently was the case). I'm not saying I agreed with the action, but I understand the reasoning behind it and I also feel that your reaction, while reasonably vindicated to a degree, was over the top. <br />
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:::::::::::Disagree with me all you like. I have little doubt that this will be at least my last post on this discussion since I will most likely get my third warning now for a classless shot as Hooper (who seems much less eager to disparage the former users themselves rather than their ideologies). I don't want to have any part of a system that puts down the people who try to make it better, especially considering that one of the key facets of a democratic system is that change is good. Auf wiedersehen. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 21:40, 9 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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[[Category:Admin Request]]</div>ThunderGod Cidhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=D%26D_Wiki:Requests_for_Adminship/Ganteka2&diff=455905D&D Wiki:Requests for Adminship/Ganteka22010-02-08T19:12:41Z<p>ThunderGod Cid: /* Ganteka */ linkage</p>
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<div>===[[Requests for Adminship/Ganteka2|Ganteka]]===<br />
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:[[Requests for Adminship/Ganteka2|Ganteka]][[User:Ganteka|'s]] Nomination.<br />
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'''[{{fullurl:Requests for Adminship/Ganteka2|action=edit}} Voice your opinion]'''<br />
'''(0/3/2) 0% Approval; Ending 22:00, 10 January 2009 (MST)'''<br />
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I am re-nominating Ganteka for adminship since he/she has willfully disregarded D&D Wiki's deletion policies a few times over [http://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&limit=500&type=delete&user=Ganteka&hide_patrol_log=1&month=&year=] (more exactly [http://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=delete&user=Ganteka&page=&year=2009&month=4]). As can be evidenced on the policy page on [[:Category:Candidates for Deletion]] it has no correlation to Wikipedia's deletion policies and Ganteka drew a correlation where none is on a number of pages. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 05:15, 4 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:Candidates Prelude<br />
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;Questions for the candidate<br />
Dear candidate, thank you for offering to serve D&D Wiki in this capacity. Please take the time to answer a few generic questions to provide guidance for voters:<br />
:'''1.''' What sysop chores do you anticipate helping with? Please read the page about [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators administrators] and the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_reading_list administrators' reading list] on Wikipedia before answering.<br />
::'''A:''' <!--Nominee answers here--><br />
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:'''2.''' Of your articles or contributions to D&D Wiki, are there any with which you are particularly pleased, and why?<br />
::'''A:''' <!--Nominee answers here--><br />
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:'''3.''' Have you been in any conflicts over editing in the past or do you feel other users have caused you stress? How have you dealt with it and how will you deal with it in the future?<br />
::'''A:''' <!--Nominee answers here--><br />
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<!-- IMPORTANT: Only registered D&D Wikians may comment in the "support", "oppose" or "neutral" sections. Non-registered users or editors who are not logged in are welcome to participate in the "comments" and "questions" sections. --><br />
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'''Discussion''' <br />
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I probably did disregard Wikipedia's deletion policies when I made deletions to articles. That would be a problem if the policy given to all admins instructed them to follow Wikipedia's deletion policies. It would also be a problem if those policies were posted on [[:Category:Candidates for Deletion]] (you may have to check the history of that page to see the exact wording at the time I was an active admin: 4 November 2008 - 10 August 2009). Here's the deletion policy given to all admins taken directly from [[User_talk:Ganteka#Adminship|my talk page]] in a message from [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]]:<br />
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*Deleting pages is normally done through [[:Category:Candidates for Deletion]]. Anything with a good reason to be deleted on that page should be deleted. The other time pages should be deleted is when someone makes a certain page and after a few edits they either blank the page or replace it with something like "Please delete this". They don't want to work on it, and unless it is really well made and fleshed out, just delete it.<br />
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Cleaning out the [[:Category:Candidates for Deletion]] is a pretty thankless job. It takes a lot of hours and a lot of patience. A lot of times, it's a tough judgement call if something is salvageable or not without total re-writes from a blank slate by a new author. Thankfully though, things are archived and can be rolled-back if necessary. To conclude, yes, I knowingly followed the policy given out by [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] and not Wikipedia's deletion policy.<br />
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Because of [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]]'s poor managerial qualities, I no longer wish to be part of this wiki. <br />
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I request that my adminship be removed. --[[User:Ganteka|Ganteka]] 07:18, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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<code>"''Because of [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]]'s poor managerial qualities''" (direct rudeness: belittling a fellow editor) (1:1).</code> --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:14, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:[http://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Category:Candidates_for_Deletion&oldid=289063 Revision as of 09:41, 27 October 2008]. And as an admin you should know ''any'' policy on D&D Wiki (implied or not) overrides an off-site policy which is related.<br />
:Also what are you talking about?<br />
:{{quote|Deleting pages is normally done through [[:Category:Candidates for Deletion]]. Anything with a good reason to be deleted on that page should be deleted. The other time pages should be deleted is when someone makes a certain page and after a few edits they either blank the page or replace it with something like "Please delete this". They don't want to work on it, and unless it is really well made and fleshed out, just delete it.}}<br />
:is not saying "''delete whatever someone tells you to delete''". Do you understand?<br />
:"''and unless it is ... fleshed out''" Do you understand? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:14, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::Warning somebody who says they are leaving because of an opinion that somebody is of poor quality is generally a poor managerial decision, especially when said warner is the one being talked about. Furthermore, warning somebody when they wish to leave the wiki is a useless act. As such, warning me would be such a useless act. [[User:Havvy|Havvy]] 09:26, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:<code>"''[He giving warnings] ... of poor quality''" (direct rudeness: personal attacks) (1:1).</code> --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:28, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::Wrong. Warnings are systematic. There are reasons as to when a contributor's actions warrant a warning and there is a systematic approach present to make it so contributors are treated equally. Making it so if one insults a certain given user and is not therefore, systematically, punished would result in a bias on D&D Wiki's part. See also the [[Warning Policy]]. I am a user just like you. That person belittled me. Belittling a fellow contributor results in a warning. Warnings are not arbitrary.<br />
:::Do you understand why what you are talking about would result in a totalitarian state ("''a government that subordinates the individual to the state and strictly controls all aspects of life by coercive measures [http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=totalitarian%20state])''"? D&D Wiki is not such since a system with a systematic approach is in place and the administration makes sure that is used throughout and policies govern all. And policies, the administration, etc can be discussed by anyone.<br />
:::The D&D Wiki administration does not want an arbitrary warning system in place to result in bias and unfairness. A systematic approach is in place as such. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:20, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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'''Support'''<br />
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'''Oppose'''<br />
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As stated above. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 05:15, 4 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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Ganteka's statements seem clear that he no longer wishes to be an admin, and as such it is in the best interest of both the site and Ganteka to honor that wish. Thanks for time served. &nbsp;<small><span style="border: 1px solid black; -moz-border-radius:10px">[[User:Hooper|'''<span style="background-color:White; color:Black; -moz-border-radius-topleft:10px; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:10px"> Hooper </span>''']][[User talk:Hooper|<span style="background-color:Black; color:white; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:10px; -moz-border-radius-topleft:10px">&nbsp;&nbsp;talk&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|<span style="background-color:black; color:white">&nbsp;&nbsp;contribs&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|<span style="background-color:black; color:white; -moz-border-radius-bottomright:10px; -moz-border-radius-topright:10px">&nbsp;&nbsp;email&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]]</span></small> 07:36, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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Considering Ganteka's statement that he does not wish to remain an admin, I support relinquishing the status. --[[User:Harry Mason|Harry Mason]] 09:32, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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'''Neutral'''<br />
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I have no care who is an admin here. I just wish to point out things that some people seem to be missing. [[User:Havvy|Havvy]] 09:26, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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I am also ambivalent as to the result of this farce. Given that the nominee has already expressly denied any interest in returning to his previous position (or even to a lesser, active role at this site), this whole thing is little more than an exercise in futility. The same applies for similar votes concerning other former admins who have been renominated and cut down by a hardly unbiased party. Since the only person's vote who really matters anymore is GD's (since this site is apparently a totalitarian state and not even a benevolent dictatorship) and he has consistently been putting his vote of opposition on these pages from the get-go, what anyone else posts to this page and others like it is completely and totally irrelevant. GD has closed his mind to the arguments of those who have left, and those with grievances have moved on. There really isn't a need to bring up such old news with such a trivial frivolity. Please, stop wasting all our time. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 15:19, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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<code>"''Since the only person's vote who really matters anymore is GD's (since this site is apparently a totalitarian state and not even a benevolent dictatorship)''", "''... what anyone else posts to this page and others like it is completely and totally irrelevant.''", and "''GD has closed his mind to the arguments of those who have left, and those with grievances have moved on. There really isn't a need to bring up such old news with such a trivial frivolity. Please, stop wasting all our time.''" (direct rudeness: rudeness, personal attacks, belittling a fellow editor) (1:1).</code> --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:20, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:"''Given that the nominee has already expressly denied any interest in returning to his previous position (or even to a lesser, active role at this site), this whole thing is little more than an exercise in futility.''" does not mean D&D Wiki will circumvent the Request for Adminship method. The method is in place and one cannot just circumvent it (that would result in a totalitarian state - which D&D Wiki is not).<br />
:Power to the people.<br />
:Do you not like how [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] is handling RfA'a and think he is not following the below?<br />
:{{quote|The numbers of people supporting, opposing, or expressing another opinion on a candidacy are a significant factor in determining consensus, as such few RfAs succeed with less than 75% support, but a request for adminship is not a ballot; only consensus (as determined by a bureaucrat) must be achieved: the reasons and evidence given during the RfA may sway others, and participants communication with the candidate may change ones position during the decision period.}}<br />
:{{quote|Any editor in good standing may nominate any other editor or him/herself.}}<br />
:Then renominate his for bureaucrat (RfB on the RfA page for now).<br />
:During an RfA the people have the choice.<br />
:{{quote|Any editor in good standing may nominate any other editor or him/herself.}}<br />
:{{quote|<br />
* '''Who may participate''': Any user in good standing is welcome to participate in discussions on candidates.<br />
<br />
* '''Who may comment in the Support, Oppose and Neutral sections''': Any D&D Wikian with an account is welcome to comment here, except for the candidate (who may respond to comments by others). Certain comments may be discounted or removed if there are suspicions of fraud; these may be the contributions of ''very new editors'' or [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sock_puppetry sockpuppets], as well as [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sock_puppetry#Meatpuppets meatpuppetry] and other activity that may be the result of an illegitimate attempt to shift the balance of opinion.}}<br />
:To recap look at the percentages of the renominations. The aforementioned admins have not gotten the needed majority on their renomination. As such they were denominated. Do you understand the process now? Each vote is something. Do you understand the process now?<br />
:And a totalitarian state does not have policies discussed by people for themselves, a system where anyone can become in charge and conversely anyone in charge can be demoted because of bad practice, etc. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:20, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::It says at the top of this page that ''"[Green Dragon is] re-nominating Ganteka for adminship since he/she has willfully disregarded D&D Wiki's deletion policies a few times over."'' I won't even go back to the fact that Ganteka already refused to accept adminship even if he acquired a majority supporting vote (which he wouldn't, considering the only people still active enough to have an opinion that will actually mean something who remain in "good standing" are yourself and Hooper). Renominating someone for a position from which they have already been denied the benefits on the ''basis'' that they violated a responsibility that was already revoked from their rights is not due process. You are claiming to follow due process by creating this page, when in truth you are using it as an opportunity to demean the people who disagreed with you in the first place by making accusations of opposition to your ruling. Persecution of opposition is one of the very facets of a totalitarian state, which is what this place is (not what it should be, but what it is). <br />
::The users who were here before the actions that you took to send them away operated under the assumption that you would condone (or at the very least consider) anything that they discussed and agreed upon as a committee. Judging by the [[User talk:Green Dragon#What the Hell|response]] and results of said response, it's painfully clear that this site doesn't have policies discussed by the people. It has '''''your''''' policies, to which there is no flexibility or deviation. That is totalitarian rule.<br />
::It's not that I don't understand this process. If anything, the process is a sham because you say you are following a process that has democratic implications (ie the people vote, etc.), which is obviously a falsehood. What I fail to comprehend is the purpose of following through with this alleged "process" when all pretense of fair and just decision-making is thrown away from the beginning. In short, it really doesn't matter that this is a ballot when, in the end, you are the sole purveyor of privilege. You alone have the power to grant and take away user rights, which you use as your "big stick" to cow others into falling into step with you. How is that anything but an iron-fisted dictatorship? - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 23:00, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::What are you talking about? Ganteka is, right now, an admin and was all along. Have you ever taken a look at [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]? See that name there: [[User:Ganteka|Ganteka]] ([[D&D Wiki:Administrators|Administrator]]). That means Ganteka is an admin (an admin as defined by [[Special:ListGroupRights]] - "Administrator"). This is ''exactly'' why I am renominating him/her for adminship, since he/she broke policies. Why can ''I''? I am a person like you too.<br />
:::{{quote|Any editor in good standing may nominate any other editor or him/herself.}}<br />
:::"''(which he wouldn't, considering the only people still active enough to have an opinion that will actually mean something who remain in "good standing" are yourself and Hooper)''" obviously not. The votes above are all factored in (e.g. do you see the '''(0/3/2)''' above? That means 5 votes have been factored into this so far). When someone is not in good standing (e.g. Sockputtetry, etc) their vote would be disregarded above (and said). Understand?<br />
:::"''Renominating someone for a position from which they have already been denied the benefits on the ''basis'' that they violated a responsibility that was already revoked from their rights is not due process.''" they are still an admin by the way... That is this process...<br />
:::"''The users who were here before the actions that you took to send them away operated under the assumption that you would condone (or at the very least consider) anything that they discussed and agreed upon as a committee. Judging by the [[User talk:Green Dragon#What the Hell|response]] and results of said response, it's painfully clear that this site doesn't have policies discussed by the people. It has '''''your''''' policies, to which there is no flexibility or deviation. That is totalitarian rule.''" - good point but wrong. The system was discussed - those were people who just did not understand that they have to "win" the argument to have their system considered. They did not - ever. If a system does not logically work then it will not become a system on D&D Wiki. That is a given.<br />
:::To recap: something has to ''work'' to work on D&D Wiki. What defines work? Discussions and logic.<br />
:::Someone needs to change one's user privileges. If I have overstepped my power then I should be RfB'ed (and/or RfA'ed depending on the power - like in this Ganteka case right here). I have followed the majority rules to the letter so far - so what are you talking about? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 00:10, 8 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::If he is still listed as an admin, then what is the purpose of this page? You say he has not been stripped of any user rights, yet you make a page that re-nominates him for adminship. This page is essentially ineffectual (merely preserving the status quo) unless you plan on taking these rights away from Ganteka. If that is the case, you have never needed needed a ballot to remove another user's rights before to my knowledge, therefore you would not be following the process outlined by the creation of this page. Unless a process is needed to remove someone's rights, this page serves no real purpose.<br />
::::As for the previous situation with something that "works", it reflects negatively on you that you deleted the work of your most trusted user base (which I would have to assume they were, since many of them were given adminship) without consulting them beforehand. I understand that you could have reviewed it yourself and found some potential flaws, but that does not justify deletion without an attempt at compromise. It would have been prudent to be more open-minded in that situation, given that the proposal was intended to recognize and deal with the problems in the current Rating System that were agreed upon by some of the most active and comprehensive-minded folks on the site. Any discrepancies you may have had could easily have been dealt with in a manner that would not have provoked such an outburst; surely you could have anticipated that no one would ever react well so such a flat rejection of something that they thought was in the best interests of the collective. Basically (and I do '''''not''''' intend for this to be a personal slight), I think the whole situation was poorly handled and made you come across as a petty and inconsiderate tyrant who is unwilling to listen to the ideas of others. This functional fixedness reflects more poorly on you than most of those who disagreed with you, and the bans made on users who voiced their disagreement increased the perception that you were using the situation as an opportunity to attack the users themselves rather than their ideas. What started as a conflict of ideologies became an embittered series of personal slights, which ended up with the exodus of users and all that jazz. While I understand that you are trying to maintain process, continuing to bring up the past actions of users who have already left the site does not place you in the most flattering light. They have (for the most part) moved on and have little desire to come back to revive old arguments. I think it would be in everyone's best interests if you were to focus on fostering your new user base and cleaning up the lesser quality stuff that has piled up due to the lack of new adminship (the whole purpose of bestowing adminship, after all, would be to divide the workload of managing this site) instead of re-nominating old admins with the express purpose of not reinstating them. <br />
::::Please do not mistake my intent; I do not want to reopen old wounds. I just want this whole saga to be over with--to get a firm and lasting resolution--once and for all. You can keep any reservations you have about particular users, just as they may keep about you; I am not going to try and dissuade either side from giving up their beliefs. Both parties have basically agreed to disagree, if only indirectly; the fact that they have their site and you have yours (which operate fully independently of each other) is proof enough of that. But publicly dissing someone who is not even active on your site any more makes you appear fixated on the previous conflict than on moving forward. That's not what's best for D&D Wiki, or for any of us. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 01:37, 8 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::::Wow... please look more into issues before commenting. This, like many many other nominations of others, is to see if the community deems this person admin-worthy. See [[Requests for Adminship]] for a complete list of the nominations (re, repeat, base, etc).<br />
:::::"''You say he has not been stripped of any user rights''"... no I ''showed'' you he is still one.<br />
:::::"''you have never needed needed a ballot to remove another user's rights before to my knowledge, therefore you would not be following the process outlined by the creation of this page. Unless a process is needed to remove someone's rights, this page serves no real purpose.''" so you ''do not'' know D&D Wiki's systems and probably do think about totalitarian things. Instead of saying "wrong wrong" you should have brought up that point to see the truth - that would be a totalitarian system if it was so (e.g. "I don't like that person. And... stripped of powers." This page is exactly why it is not like that.). Do you understand what I am saying?<br />
:::::"''your most trusted user base''". There is no such thing. If you do not know D&D Wiki's uerbase you can take a look at [[Special:ListUsers]]. For the most part I (this is not everyone!) just trust a user as much as his/her RfA states.<br />
:::::"''I understand that you could have reviewed it yourself and found some potential flaws, but that does not justify deletion without an attempt at compromise.''". [[Template:Delete]] was added to the page. Like many things during that time, which I regret now, it was speedily deleted. However you can see the top of the page to see that, lo and behold yes, [[Template:Delete]] was added. Your untrusting attitude to MediaWiki is bizarre to say the least. Take a look.<br />
:::::"''they thought was in the best interests of the collective.''" key word ''thought'' and I refuted it was not. They never refuted that. So no cigar.<br />
:::::"''I think the whole situation was poorly handled and made you come across as a petty and inconsiderate tyrant who is unwilling to listen to the ideas of others.''" as I have said in other places "''The blocked users broke rules. The blocked users got punished as a result. Other then that nothing happened. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 04:35, 22 January 2010 (UTC)''"<br />
:::::"''to attack the users themselves rather than their ideas. What started as a conflict of ideologies became an embittered series of personal slights, ...''" Huh? And I have yet to do that... I just talked about their ideas. Research before posting nonsense.<br />
:::::"''your new user base''". Huh ([[Special:ListUsers]])? "''Cleaning up the lesser quality stuff that has piled up due to the lack of new adminship (the whole purpose of bestowing adminship, after all, would be to divide the workload of managing this site) instead of re-nominating old admins with the express purpose of not reinstating them. ''" Not necessarily. Adminship is a wide range of things. Users can do things too... Do you understand?<br />
:::::"''But publicly dissing someone who is not even active on your site any more makes you appear fixated on the previous conflict than on moving forward.''" - '''For the last time this person is being renominated for adminsip. Meaning that this person is currently an admin. As such, as with many before (starting with Pz.Az.04Maus) this is the method to see if the community deems them admin-worthy as that decision determines userrights for the individual.''' I find that this is the main point you are missing. Do you understand what I am saying? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 02:07, 8 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::::Apparently I do not understand what you are saying. At this point, nor do I care to, since you have repeated it so many times it is like a power drill boring a hole into my temple. But you are also ignoring the point that I am trying to make, which is that this process you are invoking is at this point ineffectual. You have no other users who are qualified to comment on Ganteka's adminship, since they were either not sufficiently involved in any of the previous altercations between yourself and the other admins to understand the significance of Ganteka'a actions or the motives behind them (your explanation, as an partial party, is insufficient evidence, especially since you have already clearly voiced your opinion). Even if someone were of the persuasion to agree to side with Ganteka, your previous treatment of those who have opposed you does not exactly portray you as an accepting and open-minded person. Most users not already committed against you would more than likely be deterred from voicing their opinions. You have effectively alienated anyone who would dare to disagree with you, resulting in a system where despite all your advocating for the opinions of others you are actually propogating a system in which everyone will side with you out of fear of drawing your ire.<br />
::::::Consistently repeating "We use logic here," is hardly a pure condemnation of one's ideas. There's no point in research because there is nothing in those pages worthy of note. You gave no satisfactory reasoning for why the opposition was wrong; you merely insisted that they were in the wrong and you in the right, just as you are doing now.<br />
::::::Posting a list of your users doesn't prove anything. Your "new user base" would have to be a new group of users that you can actually trust to not post utter crap. That's what separated the exiled group from the rest. Despite whatever you might say, they knew what they were doing (that's why people voted for them to be admins). Excommunicating them in the manner that you did has left you without anyone recognized for their ability to bring quality to this Wiki. Without a supply of fresh homebrew, the site will continue to deteriorate (and trust me, it '''''has''''' deteriorated).<br />
::::::Yeah, users can do things, but giving someone adminship status should show that they have your backing. And as far as Wiki maintenance goes, the typcial user can basically post on the talk page and add templates. And...that's it as far as meaningful things go. Without an admin to actively sift through everything, nothing would get done. I think it has shown with the low amount of maintenance that has (or perhaps has not) occurred since.<br />
::::::I honestly was trying to be sincere, but you are frankly being a real cold fish, too entrapped by your misgivings to see that you have essentially killed your credibility. I'll admit freely that there are lots of things I do not understand. The most prominent of which is why you are so stubbornly clinging to the assertion that your actions were in the best interests of your site when it is clear that you have committed (at least as far as this Wiki goes) political suicide. You mentioned earlier that it was odd that I am mistrusting of MediaWiki. Honestly, it's not that I don't trust MediaWiki. '''''I just don't trust you.''''' And based on your previous handling of those who had willingly helped you make D&D Wiki was it was in its prime (a time that probably predates my arrival), it seems difficult to imagine that anyone else will either. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 03:21, 8 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::::::"''You have no other users who are qualified to comment on Ganteka's adminship''". One I do not "''have''" users. Users are by in themselves. Also, to the best of my knowledge, users do not comment much on RfA's. The highest users on RfA's was Ganteka's with 18. The average is probably somewhere around 7. So this, at 5 people giving opinions so far, is not too bad off. Still has time too.<br />
:::::::"''since they were either not sufficiently involved in any of the previous altercations between yourself and the other admins to understand the significance of Ganteka'a actions or the motives behind them (your explanation, as an partial party, is insufficient evidence, especially since you have already clearly voiced your opinion). Even if someone were of the persuasion to agree to side with Ganteka, ...''" Discussions are not deleted on D&D Wiki.<br />
:::::::"''fear of drawing your ire''" - I don't think anyone really is... maybe, who knows. I have yet to ban someone without a reason. I mostly only argue (like here) to make people see how things are, etc. Maybe though, who knows. Some people email me when they are confused and I explain things. Maybe though.<br />
:::::::About the "do research part". I meant if you are going to say something about someone (me in this instance - like you did above to which I stated the correction) you need to cite areas and ''prove'' it. For example - Have I ever sworn on D&D Wiki? Yes, like 2938 times. No, not once. Yes, in a revision history and in a few edit summaries ([[User Talk: Eiji#Farmer]] revisions, and see edit contributions for edit summaries - "damn" was used, although not derogatory). Which are you going to trust? You are coming across as the first option right now. Check them all out, see what I mean?<br />
:::::::"''adminship status should show that they have your backing''". Nope. Peoples backing, I only correspond to one vote (one of those number on the top).<br />
:::::::"''political suicide''" - I actually don't care... This site is not "risky" for me, I don't need to step around on tiptoes. I don't care. I own the damn thing. Think of it in a realistic way, since it is. If someone says "No" then so be it. If they hack my account and log in as me and edit away I can change my password back-end and clean it up. Do you understand what I mean by "''in a realistic way''"?<br />
:::::::Mistrust of MediaWiki came from the fact that you seemed to not trust [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]].<br />
:::::::You seem to be of the opinion that only admins can change things. One look at modern pages such as [[4e Races]]. Changed mainly only by users (with the pages improved upon), same with [[All 4e Deities]], etc. Admins are not the "doers" of D&D Wiki; everyone is. It's a wiki. Admins serve the functions as described by [[Special:ListGroupRights]]; not some arbitrary idea(s) you have in your head.<br />
:::::::I suggest you take a look at [[Requests for Adminship/Aarnott2]]. These people only contributed to about 7% of the activity of D&D Wiki. That's not "prime" and "perfection" that's 7%. Please, once again, do research before presenting things. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 04:46, 8 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::::::'''I do not "''have''" users. Users are by in themselves.''' How can you say this when the whole site is yours (I refer to when you just said ''"I own the damn thing."''), and is therefore an extension of you? Because the site is yours, you have the power to grant or deny privileges and access as you see fit. Therefore, even though users can choose to join or leave of their own accord, anyone currently present is here because you allow them to be. So yeah, you do "have" users because this site has users and is an extension of you. This site is not an island to which the average person does not have access; it is a Wiki, which means that it relies on the participation of users to contribute information (or, as is the case here, orignal material). But I digress. The point is you have users and, despite your claims to the contrary, they are only here so long as you deem it so and can be blocked at your whim without any legitimate chance for appeal unless you have a change of heart (which, given your streak of stubbornness, appears highly unlikely).<br />
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::::::::When I said you had committed political suicide, you claimed to not care. I believe you. But as I outlined above, a Wiki relies on the contributions of the users who frequent it. Basically, you need us (us being the non-privileged users and anyone other than you) whether you realize it or not to actually have a properly functioning Wiki. If people are unwilling to trust you (like how I don't trust you, given that you seem to have the reasoning of a headless cockroach), then they will be more complacent about putting things on the Wiki, and the site will suffer. You can thrust your list of user activity at me all you want and claim that it proves people are still posting, but I would be willing to bet that there has not been one legitimate good quality homebrew article since the mass exodus of your former users. I would like to point out, for the record, that the [[Celestial Dire Lion (3.5e Creature)|celestial dire lion]]--the featured article before last--was made by [[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] and the [[Rock Worm (3.5e Creature)|rock worm]]--the current featured article--was only made an FA due to your insistence and your changes (I refer you to the revision history of that page--most of the edits are yours--and the talk page which explicitly states "I [Green Dragon] do not feel this article [i.e. the original version before your intervention] is currently featured article material").<br />
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::::::::Even though you may claim that adminship only gives someone the people's backing and not yours as well, then the ability to grant and revoke priviliges should be in the people's hands, not yours. If you truly wished to veto the votes of the people, you can, and you have done so (such as when you deleted what would have been a formal proposal from some of your admins and other users suggesting a revision of the Ratings System, which you used your autocratic powers to destroy). There are no checks and balances here; it's your way or the Internet super-highway. I am not advocating that there should be any balance of power (although it would be nice); I am just tired of seeing you flip-flop between 'Here I am, all responsive and letting people vote,' and 'This is my site. Deal with it.' And for God's sake, don't feed me some BS about how what they thought was right was in fact wrong; you are just too stubborn to try and make an improvement on a markedly flawed system (the specifics of which I will not go into since it has been debated many times over to no avail). <br />
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::::::::I am not of the opinion that admins do everything. I know (because it's true) that the task of actually doing meaningful things (like deleting pages and preventing wastes of bandwidth from remaining in existence) falls to admins because normal users lack those privileges.<br />
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::::::::I am no Wikia expert nor have I ever claimed to be, but stating that the users on the so-called "Ratings Committee" account for only 7 percent of Wiki editing and assuming that that means your production of good work will continue is like having Monet in an art class of first-grade retards and assuming that when Monet leaves your class will still have someone capable of producing good art. It's the worthwhile stuff that matters, and the 7% that those 9 or so people contributed is probably (in a purely non-mathematical guesstimate) over half of the stuff that is good. Measuring their production against all Wiki production is futile, since you have no way of separating what is good from what is not. The period in which these users were active (and in which most of these good articles were being posted) would be considered your "prime" (I would never be so conceited as to use the word "perfection") in my opinion. If the activity feed also took bot-editing into account (which probably accounts for a greater percentage of activity than anything else), then your stat would be even more skewed and less reliable. Rationalize it however you want; you lost your best people, and that's the truth.<br />
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::::::::By the way, go ahead and give me a warning if it suits your fancy. I can see at least three instances where what I said could be construed as rude. Take your pick. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 19:09, 8 February 2010 (UTC) <br />
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[[Category:Admin Request]]</div>ThunderGod Cidhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=D%26D_Wiki:Requests_for_Adminship/Ganteka2&diff=455903D&D Wiki:Requests for Adminship/Ganteka22010-02-08T19:09:52Z<p>ThunderGod Cid: /* Ganteka */</p>
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<div>===[[Requests for Adminship/Ganteka2|Ganteka]]===<br />
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:[[Requests for Adminship/Ganteka2|Ganteka]][[User:Ganteka|'s]] Nomination.<br />
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'''[{{fullurl:Requests for Adminship/Ganteka2|action=edit}} Voice your opinion]'''<br />
'''(0/3/2) 0% Approval; Ending 22:00, 10 January 2009 (MST)'''<br />
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I am re-nominating Ganteka for adminship since he/she has willfully disregarded D&D Wiki's deletion policies a few times over [http://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&limit=500&type=delete&user=Ganteka&hide_patrol_log=1&month=&year=] (more exactly [http://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=delete&user=Ganteka&page=&year=2009&month=4]). As can be evidenced on the policy page on [[:Category:Candidates for Deletion]] it has no correlation to Wikipedia's deletion policies and Ganteka drew a correlation where none is on a number of pages. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 05:15, 4 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:Candidates Prelude<br />
<br />
;Questions for the candidate<br />
Dear candidate, thank you for offering to serve D&D Wiki in this capacity. Please take the time to answer a few generic questions to provide guidance for voters:<br />
:'''1.''' What sysop chores do you anticipate helping with? Please read the page about [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators administrators] and the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_reading_list administrators' reading list] on Wikipedia before answering.<br />
::'''A:''' <!--Nominee answers here--><br />
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:'''2.''' Of your articles or contributions to D&D Wiki, are there any with which you are particularly pleased, and why?<br />
::'''A:''' <!--Nominee answers here--><br />
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:'''3.''' Have you been in any conflicts over editing in the past or do you feel other users have caused you stress? How have you dealt with it and how will you deal with it in the future?<br />
::'''A:''' <!--Nominee answers here--><br />
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<!-- IMPORTANT: Only registered D&D Wikians may comment in the "support", "oppose" or "neutral" sections. Non-registered users or editors who are not logged in are welcome to participate in the "comments" and "questions" sections. --><br />
<br />
'''Discussion''' <br />
<br />
I probably did disregard Wikipedia's deletion policies when I made deletions to articles. That would be a problem if the policy given to all admins instructed them to follow Wikipedia's deletion policies. It would also be a problem if those policies were posted on [[:Category:Candidates for Deletion]] (you may have to check the history of that page to see the exact wording at the time I was an active admin: 4 November 2008 - 10 August 2009). Here's the deletion policy given to all admins taken directly from [[User_talk:Ganteka#Adminship|my talk page]] in a message from [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]]:<br />
<br />
*Deleting pages is normally done through [[:Category:Candidates for Deletion]]. Anything with a good reason to be deleted on that page should be deleted. The other time pages should be deleted is when someone makes a certain page and after a few edits they either blank the page or replace it with something like "Please delete this". They don't want to work on it, and unless it is really well made and fleshed out, just delete it.<br />
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Cleaning out the [[:Category:Candidates for Deletion]] is a pretty thankless job. It takes a lot of hours and a lot of patience. A lot of times, it's a tough judgement call if something is salvageable or not without total re-writes from a blank slate by a new author. Thankfully though, things are archived and can be rolled-back if necessary. To conclude, yes, I knowingly followed the policy given out by [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] and not Wikipedia's deletion policy.<br />
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Because of [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]]'s poor managerial qualities, I no longer wish to be part of this wiki. <br />
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I request that my adminship be removed. --[[User:Ganteka|Ganteka]] 07:18, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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<code>"''Because of [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]]'s poor managerial qualities''" (direct rudeness: belittling a fellow editor) (1:1).</code> --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:14, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:[http://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Category:Candidates_for_Deletion&oldid=289063 Revision as of 09:41, 27 October 2008]. And as an admin you should know ''any'' policy on D&D Wiki (implied or not) overrides an off-site policy which is related.<br />
:Also what are you talking about?<br />
:{{quote|Deleting pages is normally done through [[:Category:Candidates for Deletion]]. Anything with a good reason to be deleted on that page should be deleted. The other time pages should be deleted is when someone makes a certain page and after a few edits they either blank the page or replace it with something like "Please delete this". They don't want to work on it, and unless it is really well made and fleshed out, just delete it.}}<br />
:is not saying "''delete whatever someone tells you to delete''". Do you understand?<br />
:"''and unless it is ... fleshed out''" Do you understand? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:14, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::Warning somebody who says they are leaving because of an opinion that somebody is of poor quality is generally a poor managerial decision, especially when said warner is the one being talked about. Furthermore, warning somebody when they wish to leave the wiki is a useless act. As such, warning me would be such a useless act. [[User:Havvy|Havvy]] 09:26, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:<code>"''[He giving warnings] ... of poor quality''" (direct rudeness: personal attacks) (1:1).</code> --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:28, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::Wrong. Warnings are systematic. There are reasons as to when a contributor's actions warrant a warning and there is a systematic approach present to make it so contributors are treated equally. Making it so if one insults a certain given user and is not therefore, systematically, punished would result in a bias on D&D Wiki's part. See also the [[Warning Policy]]. I am a user just like you. That person belittled me. Belittling a fellow contributor results in a warning. Warnings are not arbitrary.<br />
:::Do you understand why what you are talking about would result in a totalitarian state ("''a government that subordinates the individual to the state and strictly controls all aspects of life by coercive measures [http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=totalitarian%20state])''"? D&D Wiki is not such since a system with a systematic approach is in place and the administration makes sure that is used throughout and policies govern all. And policies, the administration, etc can be discussed by anyone.<br />
:::The D&D Wiki administration does not want an arbitrary warning system in place to result in bias and unfairness. A systematic approach is in place as such. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:20, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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'''Support'''<br />
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'''Oppose'''<br />
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As stated above. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 05:15, 4 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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Ganteka's statements seem clear that he no longer wishes to be an admin, and as such it is in the best interest of both the site and Ganteka to honor that wish. Thanks for time served. &nbsp;<small><span style="border: 1px solid black; -moz-border-radius:10px">[[User:Hooper|'''<span style="background-color:White; color:Black; -moz-border-radius-topleft:10px; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:10px"> Hooper </span>''']][[User talk:Hooper|<span style="background-color:Black; color:white; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:10px; -moz-border-radius-topleft:10px">&nbsp;&nbsp;talk&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|<span style="background-color:black; color:white">&nbsp;&nbsp;contribs&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|<span style="background-color:black; color:white; -moz-border-radius-bottomright:10px; -moz-border-radius-topright:10px">&nbsp;&nbsp;email&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]]</span></small> 07:36, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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Considering Ganteka's statement that he does not wish to remain an admin, I support relinquishing the status. --[[User:Harry Mason|Harry Mason]] 09:32, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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'''Neutral'''<br />
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I have no care who is an admin here. I just wish to point out things that some people seem to be missing. [[User:Havvy|Havvy]] 09:26, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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I am also ambivalent as to the result of this farce. Given that the nominee has already expressly denied any interest in returning to his previous position (or even to a lesser, active role at this site), this whole thing is little more than an exercise in futility. The same applies for similar votes concerning other former admins who have been renominated and cut down by a hardly unbiased party. Since the only person's vote who really matters anymore is GD's (since this site is apparently a totalitarian state and not even a benevolent dictatorship) and he has consistently been putting his vote of opposition on these pages from the get-go, what anyone else posts to this page and others like it is completely and totally irrelevant. GD has closed his mind to the arguments of those who have left, and those with grievances have moved on. There really isn't a need to bring up such old news with such a trivial frivolity. Please, stop wasting all our time. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 15:19, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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<code>"''Since the only person's vote who really matters anymore is GD's (since this site is apparently a totalitarian state and not even a benevolent dictatorship)''", "''... what anyone else posts to this page and others like it is completely and totally irrelevant.''", and "''GD has closed his mind to the arguments of those who have left, and those with grievances have moved on. There really isn't a need to bring up such old news with such a trivial frivolity. Please, stop wasting all our time.''" (direct rudeness: rudeness, personal attacks, belittling a fellow editor) (1:1).</code> --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:20, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:"''Given that the nominee has already expressly denied any interest in returning to his previous position (or even to a lesser, active role at this site), this whole thing is little more than an exercise in futility.''" does not mean D&D Wiki will circumvent the Request for Adminship method. The method is in place and one cannot just circumvent it (that would result in a totalitarian state - which D&D Wiki is not).<br />
:Power to the people.<br />
:Do you not like how [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] is handling RfA'a and think he is not following the below?<br />
:{{quote|The numbers of people supporting, opposing, or expressing another opinion on a candidacy are a significant factor in determining consensus, as such few RfAs succeed with less than 75% support, but a request for adminship is not a ballot; only consensus (as determined by a bureaucrat) must be achieved: the reasons and evidence given during the RfA may sway others, and participants communication with the candidate may change ones position during the decision period.}}<br />
:{{quote|Any editor in good standing may nominate any other editor or him/herself.}}<br />
:Then renominate his for bureaucrat (RfB on the RfA page for now).<br />
:During an RfA the people have the choice.<br />
:{{quote|Any editor in good standing may nominate any other editor or him/herself.}}<br />
:{{quote|<br />
* '''Who may participate''': Any user in good standing is welcome to participate in discussions on candidates.<br />
<br />
* '''Who may comment in the Support, Oppose and Neutral sections''': Any D&D Wikian with an account is welcome to comment here, except for the candidate (who may respond to comments by others). Certain comments may be discounted or removed if there are suspicions of fraud; these may be the contributions of ''very new editors'' or [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sock_puppetry sockpuppets], as well as [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sock_puppetry#Meatpuppets meatpuppetry] and other activity that may be the result of an illegitimate attempt to shift the balance of opinion.}}<br />
:To recap look at the percentages of the renominations. The aforementioned admins have not gotten the needed majority on their renomination. As such they were denominated. Do you understand the process now? Each vote is something. Do you understand the process now?<br />
:And a totalitarian state does not have policies discussed by people for themselves, a system where anyone can become in charge and conversely anyone in charge can be demoted because of bad practice, etc. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:20, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::It says at the top of this page that ''"[Green Dragon is] re-nominating Ganteka for adminship since he/she has willfully disregarded D&D Wiki's deletion policies a few times over."'' I won't even go back to the fact that Ganteka already refused to accept adminship even if he acquired a majority supporting vote (which he wouldn't, considering the only people still active enough to have an opinion that will actually mean something who remain in "good standing" are yourself and Hooper). Renominating someone for a position from which they have already been denied the benefits on the ''basis'' that they violated a responsibility that was already revoked from their rights is not due process. You are claiming to follow due process by creating this page, when in truth you are using it as an opportunity to demean the people who disagreed with you in the first place by making accusations of opposition to your ruling. Persecution of opposition is one of the very facets of a totalitarian state, which is what this place is (not what it should be, but what it is). <br />
::The users who were here before the actions that you took to send them away operated under the assumption that you would condone (or at the very least consider) anything that they discussed and agreed upon as a committee. Judging by the [[User talk:Green Dragon#What the Hell|response]] and results of said response, it's painfully clear that this site doesn't have policies discussed by the people. It has '''''your''''' policies, to which there is no flexibility or deviation. That is totalitarian rule.<br />
::It's not that I don't understand this process. If anything, the process is a sham because you say you are following a process that has democratic implications (ie the people vote, etc.), which is obviously a falsehood. What I fail to comprehend is the purpose of following through with this alleged "process" when all pretense of fair and just decision-making is thrown away from the beginning. In short, it really doesn't matter that this is a ballot when, in the end, you are the sole purveyor of privilege. You alone have the power to grant and take away user rights, which you use as your "big stick" to cow others into falling into step with you. How is that anything but an iron-fisted dictatorship? - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 23:00, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::What are you talking about? Ganteka is, right now, an admin and was all along. Have you ever taken a look at [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]? See that name there: [[User:Ganteka|Ganteka]] ([[D&D Wiki:Administrators|Administrator]]). That means Ganteka is an admin (an admin as defined by [[Special:ListGroupRights]] - "Administrator"). This is ''exactly'' why I am renominating him/her for adminship, since he/she broke policies. Why can ''I''? I am a person like you too.<br />
:::{{quote|Any editor in good standing may nominate any other editor or him/herself.}}<br />
:::"''(which he wouldn't, considering the only people still active enough to have an opinion that will actually mean something who remain in "good standing" are yourself and Hooper)''" obviously not. The votes above are all factored in (e.g. do you see the '''(0/3/2)''' above? That means 5 votes have been factored into this so far). When someone is not in good standing (e.g. Sockputtetry, etc) their vote would be disregarded above (and said). Understand?<br />
:::"''Renominating someone for a position from which they have already been denied the benefits on the ''basis'' that they violated a responsibility that was already revoked from their rights is not due process.''" they are still an admin by the way... That is this process...<br />
:::"''The users who were here before the actions that you took to send them away operated under the assumption that you would condone (or at the very least consider) anything that they discussed and agreed upon as a committee. Judging by the [[User talk:Green Dragon#What the Hell|response]] and results of said response, it's painfully clear that this site doesn't have policies discussed by the people. It has '''''your''''' policies, to which there is no flexibility or deviation. That is totalitarian rule.''" - good point but wrong. The system was discussed - those were people who just did not understand that they have to "win" the argument to have their system considered. They did not - ever. If a system does not logically work then it will not become a system on D&D Wiki. That is a given.<br />
:::To recap: something has to ''work'' to work on D&D Wiki. What defines work? Discussions and logic.<br />
:::Someone needs to change one's user privileges. If I have overstepped my power then I should be RfB'ed (and/or RfA'ed depending on the power - like in this Ganteka case right here). I have followed the majority rules to the letter so far - so what are you talking about? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 00:10, 8 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::If he is still listed as an admin, then what is the purpose of this page? You say he has not been stripped of any user rights, yet you make a page that re-nominates him for adminship. This page is essentially ineffectual (merely preserving the status quo) unless you plan on taking these rights away from Ganteka. If that is the case, you have never needed needed a ballot to remove another user's rights before to my knowledge, therefore you would not be following the process outlined by the creation of this page. Unless a process is needed to remove someone's rights, this page serves no real purpose.<br />
::::As for the previous situation with something that "works", it reflects negatively on you that you deleted the work of your most trusted user base (which I would have to assume they were, since many of them were given adminship) without consulting them beforehand. I understand that you could have reviewed it yourself and found some potential flaws, but that does not justify deletion without an attempt at compromise. It would have been prudent to be more open-minded in that situation, given that the proposal was intended to recognize and deal with the problems in the current Rating System that were agreed upon by some of the most active and comprehensive-minded folks on the site. Any discrepancies you may have had could easily have been dealt with in a manner that would not have provoked such an outburst; surely you could have anticipated that no one would ever react well so such a flat rejection of something that they thought was in the best interests of the collective. Basically (and I do '''''not''''' intend for this to be a personal slight), I think the whole situation was poorly handled and made you come across as a petty and inconsiderate tyrant who is unwilling to listen to the ideas of others. This functional fixedness reflects more poorly on you than most of those who disagreed with you, and the bans made on users who voiced their disagreement increased the perception that you were using the situation as an opportunity to attack the users themselves rather than their ideas. What started as a conflict of ideologies became an embittered series of personal slights, which ended up with the exodus of users and all that jazz. While I understand that you are trying to maintain process, continuing to bring up the past actions of users who have already left the site does not place you in the most flattering light. They have (for the most part) moved on and have little desire to come back to revive old arguments. I think it would be in everyone's best interests if you were to focus on fostering your new user base and cleaning up the lesser quality stuff that has piled up due to the lack of new adminship (the whole purpose of bestowing adminship, after all, would be to divide the workload of managing this site) instead of re-nominating old admins with the express purpose of not reinstating them. <br />
::::Please do not mistake my intent; I do not want to reopen old wounds. I just want this whole saga to be over with--to get a firm and lasting resolution--once and for all. You can keep any reservations you have about particular users, just as they may keep about you; I am not going to try and dissuade either side from giving up their beliefs. Both parties have basically agreed to disagree, if only indirectly; the fact that they have their site and you have yours (which operate fully independently of each other) is proof enough of that. But publicly dissing someone who is not even active on your site any more makes you appear fixated on the previous conflict than on moving forward. That's not what's best for D&D Wiki, or for any of us. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 01:37, 8 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::::Wow... please look more into issues before commenting. This, like many many other nominations of others, is to see if the community deems this person admin-worthy. See [[Requests for Adminship]] for a complete list of the nominations (re, repeat, base, etc).<br />
:::::"''You say he has not been stripped of any user rights''"... no I ''showed'' you he is still one.<br />
:::::"''you have never needed needed a ballot to remove another user's rights before to my knowledge, therefore you would not be following the process outlined by the creation of this page. Unless a process is needed to remove someone's rights, this page serves no real purpose.''" so you ''do not'' know D&D Wiki's systems and probably do think about totalitarian things. Instead of saying "wrong wrong" you should have brought up that point to see the truth - that would be a totalitarian system if it was so (e.g. "I don't like that person. And... stripped of powers." This page is exactly why it is not like that.). Do you understand what I am saying?<br />
:::::"''your most trusted user base''". There is no such thing. If you do not know D&D Wiki's uerbase you can take a look at [[Special:ListUsers]]. For the most part I (this is not everyone!) just trust a user as much as his/her RfA states.<br />
:::::"''I understand that you could have reviewed it yourself and found some potential flaws, but that does not justify deletion without an attempt at compromise.''". [[Template:Delete]] was added to the page. Like many things during that time, which I regret now, it was speedily deleted. However you can see the top of the page to see that, lo and behold yes, [[Template:Delete]] was added. Your untrusting attitude to MediaWiki is bizarre to say the least. Take a look.<br />
:::::"''they thought was in the best interests of the collective.''" key word ''thought'' and I refuted it was not. They never refuted that. So no cigar.<br />
:::::"''I think the whole situation was poorly handled and made you come across as a petty and inconsiderate tyrant who is unwilling to listen to the ideas of others.''" as I have said in other places "''The blocked users broke rules. The blocked users got punished as a result. Other then that nothing happened. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 04:35, 22 January 2010 (UTC)''"<br />
:::::"''to attack the users themselves rather than their ideas. What started as a conflict of ideologies became an embittered series of personal slights, ...''" Huh? And I have yet to do that... I just talked about their ideas. Research before posting nonsense.<br />
:::::"''your new user base''". Huh ([[Special:ListUsers]])? "''Cleaning up the lesser quality stuff that has piled up due to the lack of new adminship (the whole purpose of bestowing adminship, after all, would be to divide the workload of managing this site) instead of re-nominating old admins with the express purpose of not reinstating them. ''" Not necessarily. Adminship is a wide range of things. Users can do things too... Do you understand?<br />
:::::"''But publicly dissing someone who is not even active on your site any more makes you appear fixated on the previous conflict than on moving forward.''" - '''For the last time this person is being renominated for adminsip. Meaning that this person is currently an admin. As such, as with many before (starting with Pz.Az.04Maus) this is the method to see if the community deems them admin-worthy as that decision determines userrights for the individual.''' I find that this is the main point you are missing. Do you understand what I am saying? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 02:07, 8 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::::Apparently I do not understand what you are saying. At this point, nor do I care to, since you have repeated it so many times it is like a power drill boring a hole into my temple. But you are also ignoring the point that I am trying to make, which is that this process you are invoking is at this point ineffectual. You have no other users who are qualified to comment on Ganteka's adminship, since they were either not sufficiently involved in any of the previous altercations between yourself and the other admins to understand the significance of Ganteka'a actions or the motives behind them (your explanation, as an partial party, is insufficient evidence, especially since you have already clearly voiced your opinion). Even if someone were of the persuasion to agree to side with Ganteka, your previous treatment of those who have opposed you does not exactly portray you as an accepting and open-minded person. Most users not already committed against you would more than likely be deterred from voicing their opinions. You have effectively alienated anyone who would dare to disagree with you, resulting in a system where despite all your advocating for the opinions of others you are actually propogating a system in which everyone will side with you out of fear of drawing your ire.<br />
::::::Consistently repeating "We use logic here," is hardly a pure condemnation of one's ideas. There's no point in research because there is nothing in those pages worthy of note. You gave no satisfactory reasoning for why the opposition was wrong; you merely insisted that they were in the wrong and you in the right, just as you are doing now.<br />
::::::Posting a list of your users doesn't prove anything. Your "new user base" would have to be a new group of users that you can actually trust to not post utter crap. That's what separated the exiled group from the rest. Despite whatever you might say, they knew what they were doing (that's why people voted for them to be admins). Excommunicating them in the manner that you did has left you without anyone recognized for their ability to bring quality to this Wiki. Without a supply of fresh homebrew, the site will continue to deteriorate (and trust me, it '''''has''''' deteriorated).<br />
::::::Yeah, users can do things, but giving someone adminship status should show that they have your backing. And as far as Wiki maintenance goes, the typcial user can basically post on the talk page and add templates. And...that's it as far as meaningful things go. Without an admin to actively sift through everything, nothing would get done. I think it has shown with the low amount of maintenance that has (or perhaps has not) occurred since.<br />
::::::I honestly was trying to be sincere, but you are frankly being a real cold fish, too entrapped by your misgivings to see that you have essentially killed your credibility. I'll admit freely that there are lots of things I do not understand. The most prominent of which is why you are so stubbornly clinging to the assertion that your actions were in the best interests of your site when it is clear that you have committed (at least as far as this Wiki goes) political suicide. You mentioned earlier that it was odd that I am mistrusting of MediaWiki. Honestly, it's not that I don't trust MediaWiki. '''''I just don't trust you.''''' And based on your previous handling of those who had willingly helped you make D&D Wiki was it was in its prime (a time that probably predates my arrival), it seems difficult to imagine that anyone else will either. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 03:21, 8 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::::::"''You have no other users who are qualified to comment on Ganteka's adminship''". One I do not "''have''" users. Users are by in themselves. Also, to the best of my knowledge, users do not comment much on RfA's. The highest users on RfA's was Ganteka's with 18. The average is probably somewhere around 7. So this, at 5 people giving opinions so far, is not too bad off. Still has time too.<br />
:::::::"''since they were either not sufficiently involved in any of the previous altercations between yourself and the other admins to understand the significance of Ganteka'a actions or the motives behind them (your explanation, as an partial party, is insufficient evidence, especially since you have already clearly voiced your opinion). Even if someone were of the persuasion to agree to side with Ganteka, ...''" Discussions are not deleted on D&D Wiki.<br />
:::::::"''fear of drawing your ire''" - I don't think anyone really is... maybe, who knows. I have yet to ban someone without a reason. I mostly only argue (like here) to make people see how things are, etc. Maybe though, who knows. Some people email me when they are confused and I explain things. Maybe though.<br />
:::::::About the "do research part". I meant if you are going to say something about someone (me in this instance - like you did above to which I stated the correction) you need to cite areas and ''prove'' it. For example - Have I ever sworn on D&D Wiki? Yes, like 2938 times. No, not once. Yes, in a revision history and in a few edit summaries ([[User Talk: Eiji#Farmer]] revisions, and see edit contributions for edit summaries - "damn" was used, although not derogatory). Which are you going to trust? You are coming across as the first option right now. Check them all out, see what I mean?<br />
:::::::"''adminship status should show that they have your backing''". Nope. Peoples backing, I only correspond to one vote (one of those number on the top).<br />
:::::::"''political suicide''" - I actually don't care... This site is not "risky" for me, I don't need to step around on tiptoes. I don't care. I own the damn thing. Think of it in a realistic way, since it is. If someone says "No" then so be it. If they hack my account and log in as me and edit away I can change my password back-end and clean it up. Do you understand what I mean by "''in a realistic way''"?<br />
:::::::Mistrust of MediaWiki came from the fact that you seemed to not trust [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]].<br />
:::::::You seem to be of the opinion that only admins can change things. One look at modern pages such as [[4e Races]]. Changed mainly only by users (with the pages improved upon), same with [[All 4e Deities]], etc. Admins are not the "doers" of D&D Wiki; everyone is. It's a wiki. Admins serve the functions as described by [[Special:ListGroupRights]]; not some arbitrary idea(s) you have in your head.<br />
:::::::I suggest you take a look at [[Requests for Adminship/Aarnott2]]. These people only contributed to about 7% of the activity of D&D Wiki. That's not "prime" and "perfection" that's 7%. Please, once again, do research before presenting things. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 04:46, 8 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::::::'''I do not "''have''" users. Users are by in themselves.''' How can you say this when the whole site is yours (I refer to when you just said ''"I own the damn thing."''), and is therefore an extension of you? Because the site is yours, you have the power to grant or deny privileges and access as you see fit. Therefore, even though users can choose to join or leave of their own accord, anyone currently present is here because you allow them to be. So yeah, you do "have" users because this site has users and is an extension of you. This site is not an island to which the average person does not have access; it is a Wiki, which means that it relies on the participation of users to contribute information (or, as is the case here, orignal material). But I digress. The point is you have users and, despite your claims to the contrary, they are only here so long as you deem it so and can be blocked at your whim without any legitimate chance for appeal unless you have a change of heart (which, given your streak of stubbornness, appears highly unlikely).<br />
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::::::::When I said you had committed political suicide, you claimed to not care. I believe you. But as I outlined above, a Wiki relies on the contributions of the users who frequent it. Basically, you need us (us being the non-privileged users and anyone other than you) whether you realize it or not to actually have a properly functioning Wiki. If people are unwilling to trust you (like how I don't trust you, given that you seem to have the reasoning of a headless cockroach), then they will be more complacent about putting things on the Wiki, and the site will suffer. You can thrust your list of user activity at me all you want and claim that it proves people are still posting, but I would be willing to bet that there has not been one legitimate good quality homebrew article since the mass exodus of your former users. I would like to point out, for the record, that the [[Celestial Dire Lion (3.5e Creature)|celestial dire lion]]--the featured article before last--was made by [[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] and the [[Rock Worm (3.5e Creater|rock worm]]--the current featured article--was only made an FA due to your insistence and your changes (I refer you to the [[Revision history of "Rock Worm (3.5e Creature)"|revision history]] of that page--most of the edits are yours--and the talk page which explicitly states "I [Green Dragon] do not feel this article [i.e. the original version before your intervention] is currently featured article material").<br />
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::::::::Even though you may claim that adminship only gives someone the people's backing and not yours as well, then the ability to grant and revoke priviliges should be in the people's hands, not yours. If you truly wished to veto the votes of the people, you can, and you have done so (such as when you deleted what would have been a formal proposal from some of your admins and other users suggesting a revision of the Ratings System, which you used your autocratic powers to destroy). There are no checks and balances here; it's your way or the Internet super-highway. I am not advocating that there should be any balance of power (although it would be nice); I am just tired of seeing you flip-flop between 'Here I am, all responsive and letting people vote,' and 'This is my site. Deal with it.' And for God's sake, don't feed me some BS about how what they thought was right was in fact wrong; you are just too stubborn to try and make an improvement on a markedly flawed system (the specifics of which I will not go into since it has been debated many times over to no avail). <br />
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::::::::I am not of the opinion that admins do everything. I know (because it's true) that the task of actually doing meaningful things (like deleting pages and preventing wastes of bandwidth from remaining in existence) falls to admins because normal users lack those privileges.<br />
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::::::::I am no Wikia expert nor have I ever claimed to be, but stating that the users on the so-called "Ratings Committee" account for only 7 percent of Wiki editing and assuming that that means your production of good work will continue is like having Monet in an art class of first-grade retards and assuming that when Monet leaves your class will still have someone capable of producing good art. It's the worthwhile stuff that matters, and the 7% that those 9 or so people contributed is probably (in a purely non-mathematical guesstimate) over half of the stuff that is good. Measuring their production against all Wiki production is futile, since you have no way of separating what is good from what is not. The period in which these users were active (and in which most of these good articles were being posted) would be considered your "prime" (I would never be so conceited as to use the word "perfection") in my opinion. If the activity feed also took bot-editing into account (which probably accounts for a greater percentage of activity than anything else), then your stat would be even more skewed and less reliable. Rationalize it however you want; you lost your best people, and that's the truth.<br />
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::::::::By the way, go ahead and give me a warning if it suits your fancy. I can see at least three instances where what I said could be construed as rude. Take your pick. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 19:09, 8 February 2010 (UTC) <br />
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[[Category:Admin Request]]</div>ThunderGod Cidhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=D%26D_Wiki:Requests_for_Adminship/Ganteka2&diff=455855D&D Wiki:Requests for Adminship/Ganteka22010-02-08T03:21:14Z<p>ThunderGod Cid: /* Ganteka */</p>
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<div>===[[Requests for Adminship/Ganteka2|Ganteka]]===<br />
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:[[Requests for Adminship/Ganteka2|Ganteka]][[User:Ganteka|'s]] Nomination.<br />
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'''[{{fullurl:Requests for Adminship/Ganteka2|action=edit}} Voice your opinion]'''<br />
'''(0/3/2) 0% Approval; Ending 22:00, 10 January 2009 (MST)'''<br />
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I am re-nominating Ganteka for adminship since he/she has willfully disregarded D&D Wiki's deletion policies a few times over [http://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&limit=500&type=delete&user=Ganteka&hide_patrol_log=1&month=&year=] (more exactly [http://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=delete&user=Ganteka&page=&year=2009&month=4]). As can be evidenced on the policy page on [[:Category:Candidates for Deletion]] it has no correlation to Wikipedia's deletion policies and Ganteka drew a correlation where none is on a number of pages. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 05:15, 4 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:Candidates Prelude<br />
<br />
;Questions for the candidate<br />
Dear candidate, thank you for offering to serve D&D Wiki in this capacity. Please take the time to answer a few generic questions to provide guidance for voters:<br />
:'''1.''' What sysop chores do you anticipate helping with? Please read the page about [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators administrators] and the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_reading_list administrators' reading list] on Wikipedia before answering.<br />
::'''A:''' <!--Nominee answers here--><br />
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:'''2.''' Of your articles or contributions to D&D Wiki, are there any with which you are particularly pleased, and why?<br />
::'''A:''' <!--Nominee answers here--><br />
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:'''3.''' Have you been in any conflicts over editing in the past or do you feel other users have caused you stress? How have you dealt with it and how will you deal with it in the future?<br />
::'''A:''' <!--Nominee answers here--><br />
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<!-- IMPORTANT: Only registered D&D Wikians may comment in the "support", "oppose" or "neutral" sections. Non-registered users or editors who are not logged in are welcome to participate in the "comments" and "questions" sections. --><br />
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'''Discussion''' <br />
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I probably did disregard Wikipedia's deletion policies when I made deletions to articles. That would be a problem if the policy given to all admins instructed them to follow Wikipedia's deletion policies. It would also be a problem if those policies were posted on [[:Category:Candidates for Deletion]] (you may have to check the history of that page to see the exact wording at the time I was an active admin: 4 November 2008 - 10 August 2009). Here's the deletion policy given to all admins taken directly from [[User_talk:Ganteka#Adminship|my talk page]] in a message from [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]]:<br />
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*Deleting pages is normally done through [[:Category:Candidates for Deletion]]. Anything with a good reason to be deleted on that page should be deleted. The other time pages should be deleted is when someone makes a certain page and after a few edits they either blank the page or replace it with something like "Please delete this". They don't want to work on it, and unless it is really well made and fleshed out, just delete it.<br />
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Cleaning out the [[:Category:Candidates for Deletion]] is a pretty thankless job. It takes a lot of hours and a lot of patience. A lot of times, it's a tough judgement call if something is salvageable or not without total re-writes from a blank slate by a new author. Thankfully though, things are archived and can be rolled-back if necessary. To conclude, yes, I knowingly followed the policy given out by [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] and not Wikipedia's deletion policy.<br />
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Because of [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]]'s poor managerial qualities, I no longer wish to be part of this wiki. <br />
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I request that my adminship be removed. --[[User:Ganteka|Ganteka]] 07:18, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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<code>"''Because of [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]]'s poor managerial qualities''" (direct rudeness: belittling a fellow editor) (1:1).</code> --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:14, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:[http://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Category:Candidates_for_Deletion&oldid=289063 Revision as of 09:41, 27 October 2008]. And as an admin you should know ''any'' policy on D&D Wiki (implied or not) overrides an off-site policy which is related.<br />
:Also what are you talking about?<br />
:{{quote|Deleting pages is normally done through [[:Category:Candidates for Deletion]]. Anything with a good reason to be deleted on that page should be deleted. The other time pages should be deleted is when someone makes a certain page and after a few edits they either blank the page or replace it with something like "Please delete this". They don't want to work on it, and unless it is really well made and fleshed out, just delete it.}}<br />
:is not saying "''delete whatever someone tells you to delete''". Do you understand?<br />
:"''and unless it is ... fleshed out''" Do you understand? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:14, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::Warning somebody who says they are leaving because of an opinion that somebody is of poor quality is generally a poor managerial decision, especially when said warner is the one being talked about. Furthermore, warning somebody when they wish to leave the wiki is a useless act. As such, warning me would be such a useless act. [[User:Havvy|Havvy]] 09:26, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:<code>"''[He giving warnings] ... of poor quality''" (direct rudeness: personal attacks) (1:1).</code> --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:28, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::Wrong. Warnings are systematic. There are reasons as to when a contributor's actions warrant a warning and there is a systematic approach present to make it so contributors are treated equally. Making it so if one insults a certain given user and is not therefore, systematically, punished would result in a bias on D&D Wiki's part. See also the [[Warning Policy]]. I am a user just like you. That person belittled me. Belittling a fellow contributor results in a warning. Warnings are not arbitrary.<br />
:::Do you understand why what you are talking about would result in a totalitarian state ("''a government that subordinates the individual to the state and strictly controls all aspects of life by coercive measures [http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=totalitarian%20state])''"? D&D Wiki is not such since a system with a systematic approach is in place and the administration makes sure that is used throughout and policies govern all. And policies, the administration, etc can be discussed by anyone.<br />
:::The D&D Wiki administration does not want an arbitrary warning system in place to result in bias and unfairness. A systematic approach is in place as such. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:20, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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'''Support'''<br />
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'''Oppose'''<br />
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As stated above. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 05:15, 4 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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Ganteka's statements seem clear that he no longer wishes to be an admin, and as such it is in the best interest of both the site and Ganteka to honor that wish. Thanks for time served. &nbsp;<small><span style="border: 1px solid black; -moz-border-radius:10px">[[User:Hooper|'''<span style="background-color:White; color:Black; -moz-border-radius-topleft:10px; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:10px"> Hooper </span>''']][[User talk:Hooper|<span style="background-color:Black; color:white; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:10px; -moz-border-radius-topleft:10px">&nbsp;&nbsp;talk&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|<span style="background-color:black; color:white">&nbsp;&nbsp;contribs&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|<span style="background-color:black; color:white; -moz-border-radius-bottomright:10px; -moz-border-radius-topright:10px">&nbsp;&nbsp;email&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]]</span></small> 07:36, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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Considering Ganteka's statement that he does not wish to remain an admin, I support relinquishing the status. --[[User:Harry Mason|Harry Mason]] 09:32, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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'''Neutral'''<br />
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I have no care who is an admin here. I just wish to point out things that some people seem to be missing. [[User:Havvy|Havvy]] 09:26, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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I am also ambivalent as to the result of this farce. Given that the nominee has already expressly denied any interest in returning to his previous position (or even to a lesser, active role at this site), this whole thing is little more than an exercise in futility. The same applies for similar votes concerning other former admins who have been renominated and cut down by a hardly unbiased party. Since the only person's vote who really matters anymore is GD's (since this site is apparently a totalitarian state and not even a benevolent dictatorship) and he has consistently been putting his vote of opposition on these pages from the get-go, what anyone else posts to this page and others like it is completely and totally irrelevant. GD has closed his mind to the arguments of those who have left, and those with grievances have moved on. There really isn't a need to bring up such old news with such a trivial frivolity. Please, stop wasting all our time. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 15:19, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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<code>"''Since the only person's vote who really matters anymore is GD's (since this site is apparently a totalitarian state and not even a benevolent dictatorship)''", "''... what anyone else posts to this page and others like it is completely and totally irrelevant.''", and "''GD has closed his mind to the arguments of those who have left, and those with grievances have moved on. There really isn't a need to bring up such old news with such a trivial frivolity. Please, stop wasting all our time.''" (direct rudeness: rudeness, personal attacks, belittling a fellow editor) (1:1).</code> --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:20, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:"''Given that the nominee has already expressly denied any interest in returning to his previous position (or even to a lesser, active role at this site), this whole thing is little more than an exercise in futility.''" does not mean D&D Wiki will circumvent the Request for Adminship method. The method is in place and one cannot just circumvent it (that would result in a totalitarian state - which D&D Wiki is not).<br />
:Power to the people.<br />
:Do you not like how [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] is handling RfA'a and think he is not following the below?<br />
:{{quote|The numbers of people supporting, opposing, or expressing another opinion on a candidacy are a significant factor in determining consensus, as such few RfAs succeed with less than 75% support, but a request for adminship is not a ballot; only consensus (as determined by a bureaucrat) must be achieved: the reasons and evidence given during the RfA may sway others, and participants communication with the candidate may change ones position during the decision period.}}<br />
:{{quote|Any editor in good standing may nominate any other editor or him/herself.}}<br />
:Then renominate his for bureaucrat (RfB on the RfA page for now).<br />
:During an RfA the people have the choice.<br />
:{{quote|Any editor in good standing may nominate any other editor or him/herself.}}<br />
:{{quote|<br />
* '''Who may participate''': Any user in good standing is welcome to participate in discussions on candidates.<br />
<br />
* '''Who may comment in the Support, Oppose and Neutral sections''': Any D&D Wikian with an account is welcome to comment here, except for the candidate (who may respond to comments by others). Certain comments may be discounted or removed if there are suspicions of fraud; these may be the contributions of ''very new editors'' or [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sock_puppetry sockpuppets], as well as [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sock_puppetry#Meatpuppets meatpuppetry] and other activity that may be the result of an illegitimate attempt to shift the balance of opinion.}}<br />
:To recap look at the percentages of the renominations. The aforementioned admins have not gotten the needed majority on their renomination. As such they were denominated. Do you understand the process now? Each vote is something. Do you understand the process now?<br />
:And a totalitarian state does not have policies discussed by people for themselves, a system where anyone can become in charge and conversely anyone in charge can be demoted because of bad practice, etc. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:20, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::It says at the top of this page that ''"[Green Dragon is] re-nominating Ganteka for adminship since he/she has willfully disregarded D&D Wiki's deletion policies a few times over."'' I won't even go back to the fact that Ganteka already refused to accept adminship even if he acquired a majority supporting vote (which he wouldn't, considering the only people still active enough to have an opinion that will actually mean something who remain in "good standing" are yourself and Hooper). Renominating someone for a position from which they have already been denied the benefits on the ''basis'' that they violated a responsibility that was already revoked from their rights is not due process. You are claiming to follow due process by creating this page, when in truth you are using it as an opportunity to demean the people who disagreed with you in the first place by making accusations of opposition to your ruling. Persecution of opposition is one of the very facets of a totalitarian state, which is what this place is (not what it should be, but what it is). <br />
::The users who were here before the actions that you took to send them away operated under the assumption that you would condone (or at the very least consider) anything that they discussed and agreed upon as a committee. Judging by the [[User talk:Green Dragon#What the Hell|response]] and results of said response, it's painfully clear that this site doesn't have policies discussed by the people. It has '''''your''''' policies, to which there is no flexibility or deviation. That is totalitarian rule.<br />
::It's not that I don't understand this process. If anything, the process is a sham because you say you are following a process that has democratic implications (ie the people vote, etc.), which is obviously a falsehood. What I fail to comprehend is the purpose of following through with this alleged "process" when all pretense of fair and just decision-making is thrown away from the beginning. In short, it really doesn't matter that this is a ballot when, in the end, you are the sole purveyor of privilege. You alone have the power to grant and take away user rights, which you use as your "big stick" to cow others into falling into step with you. How is that anything but an iron-fisted dictatorship? - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 23:00, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::What are you talking about? Ganteka is, right now, an admin and was all along. Have you ever taken a look at [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]? See that name there: [[User:Ganteka|Ganteka]] ([[D&D Wiki:Administrators|Administrator]]). That means Ganteka is an admin (an admin as defined by [[Special:ListGroupRights]] - "Administrator"). This is ''exactly'' why I am renominating him/her for adminship, since he/she broke policies. Why can ''I''? I am a person like you too.<br />
:::{{quote|Any editor in good standing may nominate any other editor or him/herself.}}<br />
:::"''(which he wouldn't, considering the only people still active enough to have an opinion that will actually mean something who remain in "good standing" are yourself and Hooper)''" obviously not. The votes above are all factored in (e.g. do you see the '''(0/3/2)''' above? That means 5 votes have been factored into this so far). When someone is not in good standing (e.g. Sockputtetry, etc) their vote would be disregarded above (and said). Understand?<br />
:::"''Renominating someone for a position from which they have already been denied the benefits on the ''basis'' that they violated a responsibility that was already revoked from their rights is not due process.''" they are still an admin by the way... That is this process...<br />
:::"''The users who were here before the actions that you took to send them away operated under the assumption that you would condone (or at the very least consider) anything that they discussed and agreed upon as a committee. Judging by the [[User talk:Green Dragon#What the Hell|response]] and results of said response, it's painfully clear that this site doesn't have policies discussed by the people. It has '''''your''''' policies, to which there is no flexibility or deviation. That is totalitarian rule.''" - good point but wrong. The system was discussed - those were people who just did not understand that they have to "win" the argument to have their system considered. They did not - ever. If a system does not logically work then it will not become a system on D&D Wiki. That is a given.<br />
:::To recap: something has to ''work'' to work on D&D Wiki. What defines work? Discussions and logic.<br />
:::Someone needs to change one's user privileges. If I have overstepped my power then I should be RfB'ed (and/or RfA'ed depending on the power - like in this Ganteka case right here). I have followed the majority rules to the letter so far - so what are you talking about? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 00:10, 8 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::If he is still listed as an admin, then what is the purpose of this page? You say he has not been stripped of any user rights, yet you make a page that re-nominates him for adminship. This page is essentially ineffectual (merely preserving the status quo) unless you plan on taking these rights away from Ganteka. If that is the case, you have never needed needed a ballot to remove another user's rights before to my knowledge, therefore you would not be following the process outlined by the creation of this page. Unless a process is needed to remove someone's rights, this page serves no real purpose.<br />
::::As for the previous situation with something that "works", it reflects negatively on you that you deleted the work of your most trusted user base (which I would have to assume they were, since many of them were given adminship) without consulting them beforehand. I understand that you could have reviewed it yourself and found some potential flaws, but that does not justify deletion without an attempt at compromise. It would have been prudent to be more open-minded in that situation, given that the proposal was intended to recognize and deal with the problems in the current Rating System that were agreed upon by some of the most active and comprehensive-minded folks on the site. Any discrepancies you may have had could easily have been dealt with in a manner that would not have provoked such an outburst; surely you could have anticipated that no one would ever react well so such a flat rejection of something that they thought was in the best interests of the collective. Basically (and I do '''''not''''' intend for this to be a personal slight), I think the whole situation was poorly handled and made you come across as a petty and inconsiderate tyrant who is unwilling to listen to the ideas of others. This functional fixedness reflects more poorly on you than most of those who disagreed with you, and the bans made on users who voiced their disagreement increased the perception that you were using the situation as an opportunity to attack the users themselves rather than their ideas. What started as a conflict of ideologies became an embittered series of personal slights, which ended up with the exodus of users and all that jazz. While I understand that you are trying to maintain process, continuing to bring up the past actions of users who have already left the site does not place you in the most flattering light. They have (for the most part) moved on and have little desire to come back to revive old arguments. I think it would be in everyone's best interests if you were to focus on fostering your new user base and cleaning up the lesser quality stuff that has piled up due to the lack of new adminship (the whole purpose of bestowing adminship, after all, would be to divide the workload of managing this site) instead of re-nominating old admins with the express purpose of not reinstating them. <br />
::::Please do not mistake my intent; I do not want to reopen old wounds. I just want this whole saga to be over with--to get a firm and lasting resolution--once and for all. You can keep any reservations you have about particular users, just as they may keep about you; I am not going to try and dissuade either side from giving up their beliefs. Both parties have basically agreed to disagree, if only indirectly; the fact that they have their site and you have yours (which operate fully independently of each other) is proof enough of that. But publicly dissing someone who is not even active on your site any more makes you appear fixated on the previous conflict than on moving forward. That's not what's best for D&D Wiki, or for any of us. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 01:37, 8 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::::Wow... please look more into issues before commenting. This, like many many other nominations of others, is to see if the community deems this person admin-worthy. See [[Requests for Adminship]] for a complete list of the nominations (re, repeat, base, etc).<br />
:::::"''You say he has not been stripped of any user rights''"... no I ''showed'' you he is still one.<br />
:::::"''you have never needed needed a ballot to remove another user's rights before to my knowledge, therefore you would not be following the process outlined by the creation of this page. Unless a process is needed to remove someone's rights, this page serves no real purpose.''" so you ''do not'' know D&D Wiki's systems and probably do think about totalitarian things. Instead of saying "wrong wrong" you should have brought up that point to see the truth - that would be a totalitarian system if it was so (e.g. "I don't like that person. And... stripped of powers." This page is exactly why it is not like that.). Do you understand what I am saying?<br />
:::::"''your most trusted user base''". There is no such thing. If you do not know D&D Wiki's uerbase you can take a look at [[Special:ListUsers]]. For the most part I (this is not everyone!) just trust a user as much as his/her RfA states.<br />
:::::"''I understand that you could have reviewed it yourself and found some potential flaws, but that does not justify deletion without an attempt at compromise.''". [[Template:Delete]] was added to the page. Like many things during that time, which I regret now, it was speedily deleted. However you can see the top of the page to see that, lo and behold yes, [[Template:Delete]] was added. Your untrusting attitude to MediaWiki is bizarre to say the least. Take a look.<br />
:::::"''they thought was in the best interests of the collective.''" key word ''thought'' and I refuted it was not. They never refuted that. So no cigar.<br />
:::::"''I think the whole situation was poorly handled and made you come across as a petty and inconsiderate tyrant who is unwilling to listen to the ideas of others.''" as I have said in other places "''The blocked users broke rules. The blocked users got punished as a result. Other then that nothing happened. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 04:35, 22 January 2010 (UTC)''"<br />
:::::"''to attack the users themselves rather than their ideas. What started as a conflict of ideologies became an embittered series of personal slights, ...''" Huh? And I have yet to do that... I just talked about their ideas. Research before posting nonsense.<br />
:::::"''your new user base''". Huh ([[Special:ListUsers]])? "''Cleaning up the lesser quality stuff that has piled up due to the lack of new adminship (the whole purpose of bestowing adminship, after all, would be to divide the workload of managing this site) instead of re-nominating old admins with the express purpose of not reinstating them. ''" Not necessarily. Adminship is a wide range of things. Users can do things too... Do you understand?<br />
:::::"''But publicly dissing someone who is not even active on your site any more makes you appear fixated on the previous conflict than on moving forward.''" - '''For the last time this person is being renominated for adminsip. Meaning that this person is currently an admin. As such, as with many before (starting with Pz.Az.04Maus) this is the method to see if the community deems them admin-worthy as that decision determins userrights for the individual.''' I find that this is the main point you are missing. Do you understand what I am saying? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 02:07, 8 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::::Apparently I do not understand what you are saying. At this point, nor do I care to, since you have repeated it so many times it is like a power drill boring a hole into my temple. But you are also ignoring the point that I am trying to make, which is that this process you are invoking is at this point ineffectual. You have no other users who are qualified to comment on Ganteka's adminship, since they were either not sufficiently involved in any of the previous altercations between yourself and the other admins to understand the significance of Ganteka'a actions or the motives behind them (your explanation, as an partial party, is insufficient evidence, especially since you have already clearly voiced your opinion). Even if someone were of the persuasion to agree to side with Ganteka, your previous treatment of those who have opposed you does not exactly portray you as an accepting and open-minded person. Most users not already committed against you would more than likely be deterred from voicing their opinions. You have effectively alienated anyone who would dare to disagree with you, resulting in a system where despite all your advocating for the opinions of others you are actually propogating a system in which everyone will side with you out of fear of drawing your ire.<br />
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::::::Consistently repeating "We use logic here," is hardly a pure condemantion of one's ideas. There's no point in research because there is nothing in those pages worthy of note. You gave no satisfactory reasoning for why the opposition was wrong; you merely insisted that they were in the wrong and you in the right, just as you are doing now.<br />
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::::::Posting a list of your users doesn't prove anything. Your "new user base" would have to be a new group of users that you can actually trust to not post utter crap. That's what separated the exiled group from the rest. Despite whatever you might say, they knew what they were doing (that's why people voted for them to be admins). Excommunicating them in the manner that you did has left you without anyone recognized for their ability to bring quality to this Wiki. Without a supply of fresh homebrew, the site will continue to deteriorate (and trust me, it '''''has''''' deteriorated).<br />
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::::::Yeah, users can do things, but giving someone adminship status should show that they have your backing. And as far as Wiki maintenance goes, the typcial user can basically post on the talk page and add templates. And...that's it as far as meaningful things go. Without an admin to actively sift through everything, nothing would get done. I think it has shown with the low amount of maintenance that has (or perhaps has not) occurred since.<br />
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::::::I honestly was trying to be sincere, but you are frankly being a real cold fish, too entrapped by your misgivings to see that you have essentially killed your credibility. I'll admit freely that there are lots of things I do not understand. The most prominent of which is why you are so stubbornly clinging to the assertion that your actions were in the best interests of your site when it is clear that you have committed (at least as far as this Wiki goes) political suicide. You mentioned earlier that it was odd that I am mistrusting of MediaWiki. Honestly, it's not that I don't trust MediaWiki. '''''I just don't trust you.''''' And based on your previous handling of those who had willingly helped you make D&D Wiki was it was in its prime (a time that probably predates my arrival), it seems difficult to imagine that anyone else will either. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 03:21, 8 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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[[Category:Admin Request]]</div>ThunderGod Cidhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=D%26D_Wiki:Requests_for_Adminship/Ganteka2&diff=455848D&D Wiki:Requests for Adminship/Ganteka22010-02-08T01:37:42Z<p>ThunderGod Cid: /* Ganteka */</p>
<hr />
<div>===[[Requests for Adminship/Ganteka2|Ganteka]]===<br />
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:[[Requests for Adminship/Ganteka2|Ganteka]][[User:Ganteka|'s]] Nomination.<br />
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'''[{{fullurl:Requests for Adminship/Ganteka2|action=edit}} Voice your opinion]'''<br />
'''(0/3/2) 0% Approval; Ending 22:00, 10 January 2009 (MST)'''<br />
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I am re-nominating Ganteka for adminship since he/she has willfully disregarded D&D Wiki's deletion policies a few times over [http://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&limit=500&type=delete&user=Ganteka&hide_patrol_log=1&month=&year=] (more exactly [http://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=delete&user=Ganteka&page=&year=2009&month=4]). As can be evidenced on the policy page on [[:Category:Candidates for Deletion]] it has no correlation to Wikipedia's deletion policies and Ganteka drew a correlation where none is on a number of pages. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 05:15, 4 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:Candidates Prelude<br />
<br />
;Questions for the candidate<br />
Dear candidate, thank you for offering to serve D&D Wiki in this capacity. Please take the time to answer a few generic questions to provide guidance for voters:<br />
:'''1.''' What sysop chores do you anticipate helping with? Please read the page about [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators administrators] and the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_reading_list administrators' reading list] on Wikipedia before answering.<br />
::'''A:''' <!--Nominee answers here--><br />
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:'''2.''' Of your articles or contributions to D&D Wiki, are there any with which you are particularly pleased, and why?<br />
::'''A:''' <!--Nominee answers here--><br />
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:'''3.''' Have you been in any conflicts over editing in the past or do you feel other users have caused you stress? How have you dealt with it and how will you deal with it in the future?<br />
::'''A:''' <!--Nominee answers here--><br />
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<!-- IMPORTANT: Only registered D&D Wikians may comment in the "support", "oppose" or "neutral" sections. Non-registered users or editors who are not logged in are welcome to participate in the "comments" and "questions" sections. --><br />
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'''Discussion''' <br />
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I probably did disregard Wikipedia's deletion policies when I made deletions to articles. That would be a problem if the policy given to all admins instructed them to follow Wikipedia's deletion policies. It would also be a problem if those policies were posted on [[:Category:Candidates for Deletion]] (you may have to check the history of that page to see the exact wording at the time I was an active admin: 4 November 2008 - 10 August 2009). Here's the deletion policy given to all admins taken directly from [[User_talk:Ganteka#Adminship|my talk page]] in a message from [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]]:<br />
<br />
*Deleting pages is normally done through [[:Category:Candidates for Deletion]]. Anything with a good reason to be deleted on that page should be deleted. The other time pages should be deleted is when someone makes a certain page and after a few edits they either blank the page or replace it with something like "Please delete this". They don't want to work on it, and unless it is really well made and fleshed out, just delete it.<br />
<br />
Cleaning out the [[:Category:Candidates for Deletion]] is a pretty thankless job. It takes a lot of hours and a lot of patience. A lot of times, it's a tough judgement call if something is salvageable or not without total re-writes from a blank slate by a new author. Thankfully though, things are archived and can be rolled-back if necessary. To conclude, yes, I knowingly followed the policy given out by [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] and not Wikipedia's deletion policy.<br />
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Because of [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]]'s poor managerial qualities, I no longer wish to be part of this wiki. <br />
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I request that my adminship be removed. --[[User:Ganteka|Ganteka]] 07:18, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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<code>"''Because of [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]]'s poor managerial qualities''" (direct rudeness: belittling a fellow editor) (1:1).</code> --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:14, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:[http://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Category:Candidates_for_Deletion&oldid=289063 Revision as of 09:41, 27 October 2008]. And as an admin you should know ''any'' policy on D&D Wiki (implied or not) overrides an off-site policy which is related.<br />
:Also what are you talking about?<br />
:{{quote|Deleting pages is normally done through [[:Category:Candidates for Deletion]]. Anything with a good reason to be deleted on that page should be deleted. The other time pages should be deleted is when someone makes a certain page and after a few edits they either blank the page or replace it with something like "Please delete this". They don't want to work on it, and unless it is really well made and fleshed out, just delete it.}}<br />
:is not saying "''delete whatever someone tells you to delete''". Do you understand?<br />
:"''and unless it is ... fleshed out''" Do you understand? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:14, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::Warning somebody who says they are leaving because of an opinion that somebody is of poor quality is generally a poor managerial decision, especially when said warner is the one being talked about. Furthermore, warning somebody when they wish to leave the wiki is a useless act. As such, warning me would be such a useless act. [[User:Havvy|Havvy]] 09:26, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:<code>"''[He giving warnings] ... of poor quality''" (direct rudeness: personal attacks) (1:1).</code> --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:28, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::Wrong. Warnings are systematic. There are reasons as to when a contributor's actions warrant a warning and there is a systematic approach present to make it so contributors are treated equally. Making it so if one insults a certain given user and is not therefore, systematically, punished would result in a bias on D&D Wiki's part. See also the [[Warning Policy]]. I am a user just like you. That person belittled me. Belittling a fellow contributor results in a warning. Warnings are not arbitrary.<br />
:::Do you understand why what you are talking about would result in a totalitarian state ("''a government that subordinates the individual to the state and strictly controls all aspects of life by coercive measures [http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=totalitarian%20state])''"? D&D Wiki is not such since a system with a systematic approach is in place and the administration makes sure that is used throughout and policies govern all. And policies, the administration, etc can be discussed by anyone.<br />
:::The D&D Wiki administration does not want an arbitrary warning system in place to result in bias and unfairness. A systematic approach is in place as such. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:20, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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'''Support'''<br />
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'''Oppose'''<br />
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As stated above. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 05:15, 4 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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Ganteka's statements seem clear that he no longer wishes to be an admin, and as such it is in the best interest of both the site and Ganteka to honor that wish. Thanks for time served. &nbsp;<small><span style="border: 1px solid black; -moz-border-radius:10px">[[User:Hooper|'''<span style="background-color:White; color:Black; -moz-border-radius-topleft:10px; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:10px"> Hooper </span>''']][[User talk:Hooper|<span style="background-color:Black; color:white; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:10px; -moz-border-radius-topleft:10px">&nbsp;&nbsp;talk&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|<span style="background-color:black; color:white">&nbsp;&nbsp;contribs&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|<span style="background-color:black; color:white; -moz-border-radius-bottomright:10px; -moz-border-radius-topright:10px">&nbsp;&nbsp;email&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]]</span></small> 07:36, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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Considering Ganteka's statement that he does not wish to remain an admin, I support relinquishing the status. --[[User:Harry Mason|Harry Mason]] 09:32, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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'''Neutral'''<br />
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I have no care who is an admin here. I just wish to point out things that some people seem to be missing. [[User:Havvy|Havvy]] 09:26, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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I am also ambivalent as to the result of this farce. Given that the nominee has already expressly denied any interest in returning to his previous position (or even to a lesser, active role at this site), this whole thing is little more than an exercise in futility. The same applies for similar votes concerning other former admins who have been renominated and cut down by a hardly unbiased party. Since the only person's vote who really matters anymore is GD's (since this site is apparently a totalitarian state and not even a benevolent dictatorship) and he has consistently been putting his vote of opposition on these pages from the get-go, what anyone else posts to this page and others like it is completely and totally irrelevant. GD has closed his mind to the arguments of those who have left, and those with grievances have moved on. There really isn't a need to bring up such old news with such a trivial frivolity. Please, stop wasting all our time. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 15:19, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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<code>"''Since the only person's vote who really matters anymore is GD's (since this site is apparently a totalitarian state and not even a benevolent dictatorship)''", "''... what anyone else posts to this page and others like it is completely and totally irrelevant.''", and "''GD has closed his mind to the arguments of those who have left, and those with grievances have moved on. There really isn't a need to bring up such old news with such a trivial frivolity. Please, stop wasting all our time.''" (direct rudeness: rudeness, personal attacks, belittling a fellow editor) (1:1).</code> --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:20, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:"''Given that the nominee has already expressly denied any interest in returning to his previous position (or even to a lesser, active role at this site), this whole thing is little more than an exercise in futility.''" does not mean D&D Wiki will circumvent the Request for Adminship method. The method is in place and one cannot just circumvent it (that would result in a totalitarian state - which D&D Wiki is not).<br />
:Power to the people.<br />
:Do you not like how [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] is handling RfA'a and think he is not following the below?<br />
:{{quote|The numbers of people supporting, opposing, or expressing another opinion on a candidacy are a significant factor in determining consensus, as such few RfAs succeed with less than 75% support, but a request for adminship is not a ballot; only consensus (as determined by a bureaucrat) must be achieved: the reasons and evidence given during the RfA may sway others, and participants communication with the candidate may change ones position during the decision period.}}<br />
:{{quote|Any editor in good standing may nominate any other editor or him/herself.}}<br />
:Then renominate his for bureaucrat (RfB on the RfA page for now).<br />
:During an RfA the people have the choice.<br />
:{{quote|Any editor in good standing may nominate any other editor or him/herself.}}<br />
:{{quote|<br />
* '''Who may participate''': Any user in good standing is welcome to participate in discussions on candidates.<br />
<br />
* '''Who may comment in the Support, Oppose and Neutral sections''': Any D&D Wikian with an account is welcome to comment here, except for the candidate (who may respond to comments by others). Certain comments may be discounted or removed if there are suspicions of fraud; these may be the contributions of ''very new editors'' or [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sock_puppetry sockpuppets], as well as [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sock_puppetry#Meatpuppets meatpuppetry] and other activity that may be the result of an illegitimate attempt to shift the balance of opinion.}}<br />
:To recap look at the percentages of the renominations. The aforementioned admins have not gotten the needed majority on their renomination. As such they were denominated. Do you understand the process now? Each vote is something. Do you understand the process now?<br />
:And a totalitarian state does not have policies discussed by people for themselves, a system where anyone can become in charge and conversely anyone in charge can be demoted because of bad practice, etc. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:20, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::It says at the top of this page that ''"[Green Dragon is] re-nominating Ganteka for adminship since he/she has willfully disregarded D&D Wiki's deletion policies a few times over."'' I won't even go back to the fact that Ganteka already refused to accept adminship even if he acquired a majority supporting vote (which he wouldn't, considering the only people still active enough to have an opinion that will actually mean something who remain in "good standing" are yourself and Hooper). Renominating someone for a position from which they have already been denied the benefits on the ''basis'' that they violated a responsibility that was already revoked from their rights is not due process. You are claiming to follow due process by creating this page, when in truth you are using it as an opportunity to demean the people who disagreed with you in the first place by making accusations of opposition to your ruling. Persecution of opposition is one of the very facets of a totalitarian state, which is what this place is (not what it should be, but what it is). <br />
::The users who were here before the actions that you took to send them away operated under the assumption that you would condone (or at the very least consider) anything that they discussed and agreed upon as a committee. Judging by the [[User talk:Green Dragon#What the Hell|response]] and results of said response, it's painfully clear that this site doesn't have policies discussed by the people. It has '''''your''''' policies, to which there is no flexibility or deviation. That is totalitarian rule.<br />
::It's not that I don't understand this process. If anything, the process is a sham because you say you are following a process that has democratic implications (ie the people vote, etc.), which is obviously a falsehood. What I fail to comprehend is the purpose of following through with this alleged "process" when all pretense of fair and just decision-making is thrown away from the beginning. In short, it really doesn't matter that this is a ballot when, in the end, you are the sole purveyor of privilege. You alone have the power to grant and take away user rights, which you use as your "big stick" to cow others into falling into step with you. How is that anything but an iron-fisted dictatorship? - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 23:00, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::What are you talking about? Ganteka is, right now, an admin and was all along. Have you ever taken a look at [[Special:ListUsers/sysop]]? See that name there: [[User:Ganteka|Ganteka]] ([[D&D Wiki:Administrators|Administrator]]). That means Ganteka is an admin (an admin as defined by [[Special:ListGroupRights]] - "Administrator"). This is ''exactly'' why I am renominating him/her for adminship, since he/she broke policies. Why can ''I''? I am a person like you too.<br />
:::{{quote|Any editor in good standing may nominate any other editor or him/herself.}}<br />
:::"''(which he wouldn't, considering the only people still active enough to have an opinion that will actually mean something who remain in "good standing" are yourself and Hooper)''" obviously not. The votes above are all factored in (e.g. do you see the '''(0/3/2)''' above? That means 5 votes have been factored into this so far). When someone is not in good standing (e.g. Sockputtetry, etc) their vote would be disregarded above (and said). Understand?<br />
:::"''Renominating someone for a position from which they have already been denied the benefits on the ''basis'' that they violated a responsibility that was already revoked from their rights is not due process.''" they are still an admin by the way... That is this process...<br />
:::"''The users who were here before the actions that you took to send them away operated under the assumption that you would condone (or at the very least consider) anything that they discussed and agreed upon as a committee. Judging by the [[User talk:Green Dragon#What the Hell|response]] and results of said response, it's painfully clear that this site doesn't have policies discussed by the people. It has '''''your''''' policies, to which there is no flexibility or deviation. That is totalitarian rule.''" - good point but wrong. The system was discussed - those were people who just did not understand that they have to "win" the argument to have their system considered. They did not - ever. If a system does not logically work then it will not become a system on D&D Wiki. That is a given.<br />
:::To recap: something has to ''work'' to work on D&D Wiki. What defines work? Discussions and logic.<br />
:::Someone needs to change one's user privileges. If I have overstepped my power then I should be RfB'ed (and/or RfA'ed depending on the power - like in this Ganteka case right here). I have followed the majority rules to the letter so far - so what are you talking about? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 00:10, 8 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::If he is still listed as an admin, then what is the purpose of this page? You say he has not been stripped of any user rights, yet you make a page that re-nominates him for adminship. This page is essentially ineffectual (merely preserving the status quo) unless you plan on taking these rights away from Ganteka. If that is the case, you have never needed needed a ballot to remove another user's rights before to my knowledge, therefore you would not be following the process outlined by the creation of this page. Unless a process is needed to remove someone's rights, this page serves no real purpose.<br />
<br />
::::As for the previous situation with something that "works", it reflects negatively on you that you deleted the work of your most trusted user base (which I would have to assume they were, since many of them were given adminship) without consulting them beforehand. I understand that you could have reviewed it yourself and found some potential flaws, but that does not justify deletion without an attempt at compromise. It would have been prudent to be more open-minded in that situation, given that the proposal was intended to recognize and deal with the problems in the current Rating System that were agreed upon by some of the most active and comprehensive-minded folks on the site. Any discrepancies you may have had could easily have been dealt with in a manner that would not have provoked such an outburst; surely you could have anticipated that no one would ever react well so such a flat rejection of something that they thought was in the best interests of the collective. Basically (and I do '''''not''''' intend for this to be a personal slight), I think the whole situation was poorly handled and made you come across as a petty and inconsiderate tyrant who is unwilling to listen to the ideas of others. This functional fixedness reflects more poorly on you than most of those who disagreed with you, and the bans made on users who voiced their disagreement increased the perception that you were using the situation as an opportunity to attack the users themselves rather than their ideas. What started as a conflict of ideologies became an embittered series of personal slights, which ended up with the exodus of users and all that jazz. While I understand that you are trying to maintain process, continuing to bring up the past actions of users who have already left the site does not place you in the most flattering light. They have (for the most part) moved on and have little desire to come back to revive old arguments. I think it would be in everyone's best interests if you were to focus on fostering your new user base and cleaning up the lesser quality stuff that has piled up due to the lack of new adminship (the whole purpose of bestowing adminship, after all, would be to divide the workload of managing this site) instead of re-nominating old admins with the express purpose of not reinstating them. <br />
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::::Please do not mistake my intent; I do not want to reopen old wounds. I just want this whole saga to be over with--to get a firm and lasting resolution--once and for all. You can keep any reservations you have about particular users, just as they may keep about you; I am not going to try and dissuade either side from giving up their beliefs. Both parties have basically agreed to disagree, if only indirectly; the fact that they have their site and you have yours (which operate fully independently of each other) is proof enough of that. But publicly dissing someone who is not even active on your site any more makes you appear fixated on the previous conflict than on moving forward. That's not what's best for D&D Wiki, or for any of us. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 01:37, 8 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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[[Category:Admin Request]]</div>ThunderGod Cidhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=D%26D_Wiki:Requests_for_Adminship/Ganteka2&diff=455838D&D Wiki:Requests for Adminship/Ganteka22010-02-07T23:00:07Z<p>ThunderGod Cid: /* Ganteka */</p>
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<div>===[[Requests for Adminship/Ganteka2|Ganteka]]===<br />
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:[[Requests for Adminship/Ganteka2|Ganteka]][[User:Ganteka|'s]] Nomination.<br />
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'''[{{fullurl:Requests for Adminship/Ganteka2|action=edit}} Voice your opinion]'''<br />
'''(0/3/2) 0% Approval; Ending 22:00, 10 January 2009 (MST)'''<br />
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I am re-nominating Ganteka for adminship since he/she has willfully disregarded D&D Wiki's deletion policies a few times over [http://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&limit=500&type=delete&user=Ganteka&hide_patrol_log=1&month=&year=] (more exactly [http://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=delete&user=Ganteka&page=&year=2009&month=4]). As can be evidenced on the policy page on [[:Category:Candidates for Deletion]] it has no correlation to Wikipedia's deletion policies and Ganteka drew a correlation where none is on a number of pages. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 05:15, 4 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Candidates Prelude<br />
<br />
;Questions for the candidate<br />
Dear candidate, thank you for offering to serve D&D Wiki in this capacity. Please take the time to answer a few generic questions to provide guidance for voters:<br />
:'''1.''' What sysop chores do you anticipate helping with? Please read the page about [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators administrators] and the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_reading_list administrators' reading list] on Wikipedia before answering.<br />
::'''A:''' <!--Nominee answers here--><br />
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:'''2.''' Of your articles or contributions to D&D Wiki, are there any with which you are particularly pleased, and why?<br />
::'''A:''' <!--Nominee answers here--><br />
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:'''3.''' Have you been in any conflicts over editing in the past or do you feel other users have caused you stress? How have you dealt with it and how will you deal with it in the future?<br />
::'''A:''' <!--Nominee answers here--><br />
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<!-- IMPORTANT: Only registered D&D Wikians may comment in the "support", "oppose" or "neutral" sections. Non-registered users or editors who are not logged in are welcome to participate in the "comments" and "questions" sections. --><br />
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'''Discussion''' <br />
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I probably did disregard Wikipedia's deletion policies when I made deletions to articles. That would be a problem if the policy given to all admins instructed them to follow Wikipedia's deletion policies. It would also be a problem if those policies were posted on [[:Category:Candidates for Deletion]] (you may have to check the history of that page to see the exact wording at the time I was an active admin: 4 November 2008 - 10 August 2009). Here's the deletion policy given to all admins taken directly from [[User_talk:Ganteka#Adminship|my talk page]] in a message from [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]]:<br />
<br />
*Deleting pages is normally done through [[:Category:Candidates for Deletion]]. Anything with a good reason to be deleted on that page should be deleted. The other time pages should be deleted is when someone makes a certain page and after a few edits they either blank the page or replace it with something like "Please delete this". They don't want to work on it, and unless it is really well made and fleshed out, just delete it.<br />
<br />
Cleaning out the [[:Category:Candidates for Deletion]] is a pretty thankless job. It takes a lot of hours and a lot of patience. A lot of times, it's a tough judgement call if something is salvageable or not without total re-writes from a blank slate by a new author. Thankfully though, things are archived and can be rolled-back if necessary. To conclude, yes, I knowingly followed the policy given out by [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] and not Wikipedia's deletion policy.<br />
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Because of [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]]'s poor managerial qualities, I no longer wish to be part of this wiki. <br />
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I request that my adminship be removed. --[[User:Ganteka|Ganteka]] 07:18, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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<code>"''Because of [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]]'s poor managerial qualities''" (direct rudeness: belittling a fellow editor) (1:1).</code> --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:14, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:[http://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Category:Candidates_for_Deletion&oldid=289063 Revision as of 09:41, 27 October 2008]. And as an admin you should know ''any'' policy on D&D Wiki (implied or not) overrides an off-site policy which is related.<br />
:Also what are you talking about?<br />
:{{quote|Deleting pages is normally done through [[:Category:Candidates for Deletion]]. Anything with a good reason to be deleted on that page should be deleted. The other time pages should be deleted is when someone makes a certain page and after a few edits they either blank the page or replace it with something like "Please delete this". They don't want to work on it, and unless it is really well made and fleshed out, just delete it.}}<br />
:is not saying "''delete whatever someone tells you to delete''". Do you understand?<br />
:"''and unless it is ... fleshed out''" Do you understand? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:14, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Warning somebody who says they are leaving because of an opinion that somebody is of poor quality is generally a poor managerial decision, especially when said warner is the one being talked about. Furthermore, warning somebody when they wish to leave the wiki is a useless act. As such, warning me would be such a useless act. [[User:Havvy|Havvy]] 09:26, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:<code>"''[He giving warnings] ... of poor quality''" (direct rudeness: personal attacks) (1:1).</code> --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:28, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::Wrong. Warnings are systematic. There are reasons as to when a contributor's actions warrant a warning and there is a systematic approach present to make it so contributors are treated equally. Making it so if one insults a certain given user and is not therefore, systematically, punished would result in a bias on D&D Wiki's part. See also the [[Warning Policy]]. I am a user just like you. That person belittled me. Belittling a fellow contributor results in a warning. Warnings are not arbitrary.<br />
:::Do you understand why what you are talking about would result in a totalitarian state ("''a government that subordinates the individual to the state and strictly controls all aspects of life by coercive measures [http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=totalitarian%20state])''"? D&D Wiki is not such since a system with a systematic approach is in place and the administration makes sure that is used throughout and policies govern all. And policies, the administration, etc can be discussed by anyone.<br />
:::The D&D Wiki administration does not want an arbitrary warning system in place to result in bias and unfairness. A systematic approach is in place as such. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:20, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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'''Support'''<br />
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'''Oppose'''<br />
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As stated above. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 05:15, 4 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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Ganteka's statements seem clear that he no longer wishes to be an admin, and as such it is in the best interest of both the site and Ganteka to honor that wish. Thanks for time served. &nbsp;<small><span style="border: 1px solid black; -moz-border-radius:10px">[[User:Hooper|'''<span style="background-color:White; color:Black; -moz-border-radius-topleft:10px; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:10px"> Hooper </span>''']][[User talk:Hooper|<span style="background-color:Black; color:white; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:10px; -moz-border-radius-topleft:10px">&nbsp;&nbsp;talk&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|<span style="background-color:black; color:white">&nbsp;&nbsp;contribs&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|<span style="background-color:black; color:white; -moz-border-radius-bottomright:10px; -moz-border-radius-topright:10px">&nbsp;&nbsp;email&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]]</span></small> 07:36, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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Considering Ganteka's statement that he does not wish to remain an admin, I support relinquishing the status. --[[User:Harry Mason|Harry Mason]] 09:32, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
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'''Neutral'''<br />
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I have no care who is an admin here. I just wish to point out things that some people seem to be missing. [[User:Havvy|Havvy]] 09:26, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I am also ambivalent as to the result of this farce. Given that the nominee has already expressly denied any interest in returning to his previous position (or even to a lesser, active role at this site), this whole thing is little more than an exercise in futility. The same applies for similar votes concerning other former admins who have been renominated and cut down by a hardly unbiased party. Since the only person's vote who really matters anymore is GD's (since this site is apparently a totalitarian state and not even a benevolent dictatorship) and he has consistently been putting his vote of opposition on these pages from the get-go, what anyone else posts to this page and others like it is completely and totally irrelevant. GD has closed his mind to the arguments of those who have left, and those with grievances have moved on. There really isn't a need to bring up such old news with such a trivial frivolity. Please, stop wasting all our time. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 15:19, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<code>"''Since the only person's vote who really matters anymore is GD's (since this site is apparently a totalitarian state and not even a benevolent dictatorship)''", "''... what anyone else posts to this page and others like it is completely and totally irrelevant.''", and "''GD has closed his mind to the arguments of those who have left, and those with grievances have moved on. There really isn't a need to bring up such old news with such a trivial frivolity. Please, stop wasting all our time.''" (direct rudeness: rudeness, personal attacks, belittling a fellow editor) (1:1).</code> --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:20, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:"''Given that the nominee has already expressly denied any interest in returning to his previous position (or even to a lesser, active role at this site), this whole thing is little more than an exercise in futility.''" does not mean D&D Wiki will circumvent the Request for Adminship method. The method is in place and one cannot just circumvent it (that would result in a totalitarian state - which D&D Wiki is not).<br />
:Power to the people.<br />
:Do you not like how [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] is handling RfA'a and think he is not following the below?<br />
:{{quote|The numbers of people supporting, opposing, or expressing another opinion on a candidacy are a significant factor in determining consensus, as such few RfAs succeed with less than 75% support, but a request for adminship is not a ballot; only consensus (as determined by a bureaucrat) must be achieved: the reasons and evidence given during the RfA may sway others, and participants communication with the candidate may change ones position during the decision period.}}<br />
:{{quote|Any editor in good standing may nominate any other editor or him/herself.}}<br />
:Then renominate his for bureaucrat (RfB on the RfA page for now).<br />
:During an RfA the people have the choice.<br />
:{{quote|Any editor in good standing may nominate any other editor or him/herself.}}<br />
:{{quote|<br />
* '''Who may participate''': Any user in good standing is welcome to participate in discussions on candidates.<br />
<br />
* '''Who may comment in the Support, Oppose and Neutral sections''': Any D&D Wikian with an account is welcome to comment here, except for the candidate (who may respond to comments by others). Certain comments may be discounted or removed if there are suspicions of fraud; these may be the contributions of ''very new editors'' or [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sock_puppetry sockpuppets], as well as [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sock_puppetry#Meatpuppets meatpuppetry] and other activity that may be the result of an illegitimate attempt to shift the balance of opinion.}}<br />
:To recap look at the percentages of the renominations. The aforementioned admins have not gotten the needed majority on their renomination. As such they were denominated. Do you understand the process now? Each vote is something. Do you understand the process now?<br />
:And a totalitarian state does not have policies discussed by people for themselves, a system where anyone can become in charge and conversely anyone in charge can be demoted because of bad practice, etc. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:20, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::It says at the top of this page that ''"[Green Dragon is] re-nominating Ganteka for adminship since he/she has willfully disregarded D&D Wiki's deletion policies a few times over."'' I won't even go back to the fact that Ganteka already refused to accept adminship even if he acquired a majority supporting vote (which he wouldn't, considering the only people still active enough to have an opinion that will actually mean something who remain in "good standing" are yourself and Hooper). Renominating someone for a position from which they have already been denied the benefits on the '''''basis''''' that they violated a responsibility that was already revoked from their rights is not due process. You are claiming to follow due process by creating this page, when in truth you are using it as an opportunity to demean the people who disagreed with you in the first place by making accusations of opposition to your ruling. Persecution of opposition is one of the very facets of a totalitarian state, which is what this place is (not what it should be, but what it is). <br />
<br />
::The users who were here before the actions that you took to send them away operated under the assumption that you would condone (or at the very least consider) anything that they discussed and agreed upon as a committee. Judging by the [[User talk:Green Dragon#What the Hell|response]] and results of said response, it's painfully clear that this site doesn't have policies discussed by the people. It has '''''your''''' policies, to which there is no flexibility or deviation. That is totalitarian rule.<br />
<br />
::It's not that I don't understand this process. If anything, the process is a sham because you say you are following a process that has democratic implications (ie the people vote, etc.), which is obviously a falsehood. What I fail to comprehend is the purpose of following through with this alleged "process" when all pretense of fair and just decision-making is thrown away from the beginning. In short, it really doesn't matter that this is a ballot when, in the end, you are the sole purveyor of privilege. You alone have the power to grant and take away user rights, which you use as your "big stick" to cow others into falling into step with you. How is that anything but an iron-fisted dictatorship? - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 23:00, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
[[Category:Admin Request]]</div>ThunderGod Cidhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=D%26D_Wiki:Requests_for_Adminship/Ganteka2&diff=455803D&D Wiki:Requests for Adminship/Ganteka22010-02-07T15:19:55Z<p>ThunderGod Cid: </p>
<hr />
<div>===[[Requests for Adminship/Ganteka2|Ganteka]]===<br />
<br />
:[[Requests for Adminship/Ganteka2|Ganteka]][[User:Ganteka|'s]] Nomination.<br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
'''[{{fullurl:Requests for Adminship/Ganteka2|action=edit}} Voice your opinion]'''<br />
'''(0/3/1) 0% Approval; Ending 22:00, 10 January 2009 (MST)'''<br />
<br />
I am re-nominating Ganteka for adminship since he/she has willfully disregarded D&D Wiki's deletion policies a few times over [http://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&limit=500&type=delete&user=Ganteka&hide_patrol_log=1&month=&year=] (more exactly [http://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=delete&user=Ganteka&page=&year=2009&month=4]). As can be evidenced on the policy page on [[:Category:Candidates for Deletion]] it has no correlation to Wikipedia's deletion policies and Ganteka drew a correlation where none is on a number of pages. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 05:15, 4 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Candidates Prelude<br />
<br />
;Questions for the candidate<br />
Dear candidate, thank you for offering to serve D&D Wiki in this capacity. Please take the time to answer a few generic questions to provide guidance for voters:<br />
:'''1.''' What sysop chores do you anticipate helping with? Please read the page about [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators administrators] and the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_reading_list administrators' reading list] on Wikipedia before answering.<br />
::'''A:''' <!--Nominee answers here--><br />
<br />
:'''2.''' Of your articles or contributions to D&D Wiki, are there any with which you are particularly pleased, and why?<br />
::'''A:''' <!--Nominee answers here--><br />
<br />
:'''3.''' Have you been in any conflicts over editing in the past or do you feel other users have caused you stress? How have you dealt with it and how will you deal with it in the future?<br />
::'''A:''' <!--Nominee answers here--><br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
<!-- IMPORTANT: Only registered D&D Wikians may comment in the "support", "oppose" or "neutral" sections. Non-registered users or editors who are not logged in are welcome to participate in the "comments" and "questions" sections. --><br />
<br />
'''Discussion''' <br />
<br />
I probably did disregard Wikipedia's deletion policies when I made deletions to articles. That would be a problem if the policy given to all admins instructed them to follow Wikipedia's deletion policies. It would also be a problem if those policies were posted on [[:Category:Candidates for Deletion]] (you may have to check the history of that page to see the exact wording at the time I was an active admin: 4 November 2008 - 10 August 2009). Here's the deletion policy given to all admins taken directly from [[User_talk:Ganteka#Adminship|my talk page]] in a message from [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]]:<br />
<br />
*Deleting pages is normally done through [[:Category:Candidates for Deletion]]. Anything with a good reason to be deleted on that page should be deleted. The other time pages should be deleted is when someone makes a certain page and after a few edits they either blank the page or replace it with something like "Please delete this". They don't want to work on it, and unless it is really well made and fleshed out, just delete it.<br />
<br />
Cleaning out the [[:Category:Candidates for Deletion]] is a pretty thankless job. It takes a lot of hours and a lot of patience. A lot of times, it's a tough judgement call if something is salvageable or not without total re-writes from a blank slate by a new author. Thankfully though, things are archived and can be rolled-back if necessary. To conclude, yes, I knowingly followed the policy given out by [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] and not Wikipedia's deletion policy.<br />
<br />
Because of [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]]'s poor managerial qualities, I no longer wish to be part of this wiki. <br />
<br />
I request that my adminship be removed. --[[User:Ganteka|Ganteka]] 07:18, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<code>"''Because of [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]]'s poor managerial qualities''" (direct rudeness: belittling a fellow editor) (1:1).</code> --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:14, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:[http://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Category:Candidates_for_Deletion&oldid=289063 Revision as of 09:41, 27 October 2008]. And as an admin you should know ''any'' policy on D&D Wiki (implied or not) overrides an off-site policy which is related.<br />
:Also what are you talking about?<br />
:{{quote|Deleting pages is normally done through [[:Category:Candidates for Deletion]]. Anything with a good reason to be deleted on that page should be deleted. The other time pages should be deleted is when someone makes a certain page and after a few edits they either blank the page or replace it with something like "Please delete this". They don't want to work on it, and unless it is really well made and fleshed out, just delete it.}}<br />
:is not saying "''delete whatever someone tells you to delete''". Do you understand?<br />
:"''and unless it is ... fleshed out''" Do you understand? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:14, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
:: Warning somebody who says they are leaving because of an opinion that somebody is of poor quality is generally a poor managerial decision, especially when said warner is the one being talked about. Furthermore, warning somebody when they wish to leave the wiki is a useless act. As such, warning me would be such a useless act. [[User:Havvy|Havvy]] 09:26, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
'''Support'''<br />
<br />
'''Oppose'''<br />
<br />
As stated above. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 05:15, 4 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Ganteka's statements seem clear that he no longer wishes to be an admin, and as such it is in the best interest of both the site and Ganteka to honor that wish. Thanks for time served. &nbsp;<small><span style="border: 1px solid black; -moz-border-radius:10px">[[User:Hooper|'''<span style="background-color:White; color:Black; -moz-border-radius-topleft:10px; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:10px"> Hooper </span>''']][[User talk:Hooper|<span style="background-color:Black; color:white; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:10px; -moz-border-radius-topleft:10px">&nbsp;&nbsp;talk&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|<span style="background-color:black; color:white">&nbsp;&nbsp;contribs&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|<span style="background-color:black; color:white; -moz-border-radius-bottomright:10px; -moz-border-radius-topright:10px">&nbsp;&nbsp;email&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]]</span></small> 07:36, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Considering Ganteka's statement that he does not wish to remain an admin, I support relinquishing the status. --[[User:Harry Mason|Harry Mason]] 09:32, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
'''Neutral'''<br />
<br />
I have no care who is an admin here. I just wish to point out things that some people seem to be missing. [[User:Havvy|Havvy]] 09:26, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I am also ambivalent as to the result of this farce. Given that the nominee has already expressly denied any interest in returning to his previous position (or even to a lesser, active role at this site), this whole thing is little more than an exercise in futility. The same applies for similar votes concerning other former admins who have been renominated and cut down by a hardly unbiased party. Since the only person's vote who really matters anymore is GD's (since this site is apparently a totalitarian state and not even a benevolent dictatorship) and he has consistently been putting his vote of opposition on these pages from the get-go, what anyone else posts to this page and others like it is completely and totally irrelevant. GD has closed his mind to the arguments of those who have left, and those with grievances have moved on. There really isn't a need to bring up such old news with such a trivial frivolity. Please, stop wasting all our time. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 15:19, 7 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
[[Category:Admin Request]]</div>ThunderGod Cidhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Puppet_Master_(3.5e_Class)&diff=455607Puppet Master (3.5e Class)2010-02-06T03:25:26Z<p>ThunderGod Cid: Undo revision 455572 by 69.142.50.16 (Talk) reverted vandalism by a total dipshit</p>
<hr />
<div>{{DnD Base Class Infobox<br />
|img=<br />
|imgloc=<br />
|imgsize=<br />
|imgcaption=<br />
|rating_power=<br />
|raters_power=<br />
|rating_wording=<br />
|raters_wording=<br />
|rating_formatting=<br />
|raters_formatting=<br />
|rating_flavor=<br />
|raters_flavor=<br />
|authors=Geordy Borsari<br />
|datecreated=Tuesday, March 31, 2009<br />
|status=Finished with the basic concept, but I still need to get some of the specifics.<br />
|editing=I ask that people not just change things, but I would like criticism.<br />
|type=Most likely a support class, but can be changed based on how you play it.<br />
|desc=A caster who supports himself and others through the control of marionettes.<br />
}}<br />
<br />
==Puppet Master==<br />
<br />
The Puppet Master is very like a bard. Instead of using instruments and music to sway the crowd, they use the overlooked puppet. You will most likely find a Puppet Master in the town square preforming. A Puppet Master usually re-enact historic stories or battles using his puppets, and are not above collaborating with other Puppet Masters for a performance. The Puppet Master controls one puppet that can be so detailed, that sometimes could be mistaken for real. The puppet is usually about 1' to 2' tall, and can be anything from a goblin to a dragon. <br />
<br />
While to the normal eye the puppet may look lifeless and is simply being moved by strings, there are powerful forces behind the control of the puppets. A Puppet Master has a mystical link with the puppet he controls; this allows him to make the puppet seem much more real than it actually is. It also makes him a pretty formidable opponent when challenged. <br />
<br />
===Making a Puppet Master===<br />
<br />
A Puppet Master is good at controlling a situation, as well as others. They can fit into many roles in a group... They can act as a Bard and help with morale, they can act as a protector like a Fighter, they can act as a jack of all trades like a Rogue. All their power lies in their puppets, without their puppets Puppet Masters can defend themselves for a short while with a few illusions. They have little health or armor, thus making them very dependent on their puppets and party members. <br />
<br />
'''Abilities:''' The most important ability for a Puppet Master is his charisma, this allows him better control over his puppet and gives potency to his illusions. It is also advised for them to have good constitution and dexterity, in case their puppet gets destroyed. <br />
<br />
'''Races:''' Anyone can be puppet masters, though Humans are the most likely to be Puppet Masters because of their love of lore and entertainment. <br />
<br />
'''Alignment:''' any.<br />
<br />
'''Starting Gold:''' As Bard.<br />
<br />
'''[[SRD:Race Descriptions#Starting Age|Starting Age]]:''' Moderate.<br />
<br />
{| class="{{d20}}"<br />
|+<br />
<div>{{#anc:Table: The Puppet Master}}</div><br />
Hit Die: d4<br />
|-<br />
! rowspan="2" | Level<br />
! rowspan="2" | [[BAB|Base<br/>Attack Bonus]]<br />
! colspan="3" | [[SRD:Saving Throw|Saving Throw]]s<br />
! rowspan="2" | Special<br />
! colspan="10" | [[#Spells|Spells per Day]]<br />
|-<br />
! [[SRD:Saving Throw#Fortitude|Fort]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Reflex|Ref]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Will|Will]]<br />
! 0 || 1<sup>st</sup> || 2<sup>nd</sup> || 3<sup>rd</sup> || 4<sup>th</sup> || 5<sup>th</sup> || 6<sup>th</sup> || 7<sup>th</sup> || 8<sup>th</sup> || 9<sup>th</sup><br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|1st|| class="left" | 0 || 0 || 2 || 2<br />
| class="left" | Puppet, Puppet-Path I<br />
|2||—||—||—||—||—||—||—||—||—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|2nd|| class="left" | 1 || 0 || 3 || 3<br />
| class="left" | <br />
|3||0||—||—||—||—||—||—||—||—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|3rd|| class="left" | 1 || 1 || 4 || 4<br />
| class="left" | <br />
|3||1||—||—||—||—||—||—||—||—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|4th||class="left" | 2 || 1 || 4 || 4<br />
| class="left" | <br />
|3||2||0||—||—||—||—||—||—||—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|5th||class="left" | 2 || 1 || 4 || 4<br />
| class="left" | Puppet-Path II<br />
|3||3||1||—||—||—||—||—||—||—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|6th||class="left" | 3 || 2 || 5 || 5<br />
| class="left" | <br />
|3||3||2||—||—||—||—||—||—||—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|7th||class="left" | 3 || 2 || 5 || 5<br />
| class="left" | <br />
|3||3||2||0||—||—||—||—||—||—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|8th||class="left" | 4 || 2 || 6 || 6<br />
| class="left" | <br />
|3||3||3||1||—||—||—||—||—||—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|9th||class="left" | 4 || 3 || 6 || 6<br />
| class="left" | <br />
|3||3||3||2||—||—||—||—||—||—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|10th||class="left" | 5 || 3 || 7 || 7<br />
| class="left" | Puppet-Path III<br />
|3||3||3||2||0||—||—||—||—||—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|11th||class="left" | 5 || 3 || 7 || 7<br />
| class="left" | <br />
|3||3||3||3||1||—||—||—||—||—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|12th||class="left" | 6/1 || 4 || 8 || 8<br />
| class="left" | <br />
|3||3||3||3||2||—||—||—||—||—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|13th||class="left" | 6/1 || 4 || 8 || 8<br />
| class="left" | <br />
|3||3||3||3||2||0||—||—||—||—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|14th||class="left" | 7/2 || 4 || 9 || 9<br />
| class="left" | <br />
|4||3||3||3||3||1||—||—||—||—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|15th||class="left" | 7/2 || 5 || 9 || 9<br />
| class="left" | Puppet-Path IV<br />
|4||4||3||3||3||2||—||—||—||—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|16th||class="left" | 8/3 || 5 || 10 || 10<br />
| class="left" | <br />
|4||4||4||3||3||2||0||—||—||—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|17th||class="left" | 8/3 || 5 || 10 || 10<br />
| class="left" | <br />
|4||4||4||4||3||3||1||—||—||—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|18th||class="left" | 9/4 || 6 || 11 || 11<br />
| class="left" | <br />
|4||4||4||4||4||3||2||—||—||—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|19th||class="left" | 9/4 || 6 || 11 || 11<br />
| class="left" | <br />
|4||4||4||4||4||4||3||—||—||—<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|20th||class="left" | 10/5 || 6 || 12 || 12<br />
| class="left" | Puppet-Path V<br />
|4||4||4||4||4||4||4||—||—||—<br />
|-<br />
| colspan="42" class="skill" |<br />
'''[[SRD:Class|Class]] Skills (6 + [[SRD:Intelligence|Int]] modifier per level, &times;4 at 1st level)'''<br/><br />
[[SRD:Appraise Skill|Appraise]] ([[SRD:Intelligence|Int]]), [[SRD:Bluff Skill|Bluff]] ([[SRD:Charisma|Cha]]), [[SRD:Concentration Skill|Concentration]] ([[SRD:Constitution|Con]]), [[SRD:Craft Skill|Craft]] ([[SRD:Intelligence|Int]]), [[SRD:Decipher Script Skill|Decipher Script]] ([[SRD:Intelligence|Int]]), [[SRD:Diplomacy Skill|Diplomacy]] ([[SRD:Charisma|Cha]]), [[SRD:Disable Device Skill|Disable Device]] ([[SRD:Intelligence|Int]]),[[SRD:Disguise Skill|Disguise]] ([[SRD:Charisma|Cha]]), [[SRD:Escape Artist Skill|Escape Artist]] ([[SRD:Dexterity|Dex]]), [[SRD:Gather Information Skill|Gather Information]] ([[SRD:Charisma|Cha]]), [[SRD:Hide Skill|Hide]] ([[SRD:Dexterity|Dex]]), [[SRD:Knowledge Skill|Knowledge]] (all skills, taken individually) ([[SRD:Intelligence|Int]]), [[SRD:Listen Skill|Listen]] ([[SRD:Wisdom|Wis]]), [[SRD:Move Silently Skill|Move Silently]] ([[SRD:Dexterity|Dex]]), [[SRD:Open Lock Skill|Open Lock]] ([[SRD:Dexterity|Dex]]),[[SRD:Perform Skill|Perform]] ([[SRD:Charisma|Cha]]), [[SRD:Profession Skill|Profession]] ([[SRD:Wisdom|Wis]]), [[SRD:Sense Motive Skill|Sense Motive]] ([[SRD:Wisdom|Wis]]), [[SRD:Sleight of Hand Skill|Sleight of Hand]] ([[SRD:Dexterity|Dex]]), [[SRD:Speak Language Skill|Speak Language]] (n/a), [[SRD:Spellcraft Skill|Spellcraft]] ([[SRD:Intelligence|Int]]), [[SRD:Use Magic Device Skill|Use Magic Device]] ([[SRD:Charisma|Cha]]).<br />
|}<br />
<br />
====Class Features====<br />
<br />
All of the following are class features of the Puppet Master.<br />
<br />
'''Weapon and Armor Proficiency:''' A Puppet Master is proficient with all simple weapons, but cannot control his puppet while wielding a weapon. The Puppet Master is not proficient with any type of armor.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Spells}}:''' As Bard the same level as the Puppet Master for spells known and spells per day. Puppet Masters choose their spells from the following list:<br />
<br />
===0-LEVEL BARD SPELLS (CANTRIPS)===<br />
* [[SRD:Dancing Lights|Dancing Lights]]: Creates torches or other lights.<br />
* [[SRD:Daze|Daze]]: [[SRD:Humanoid Type|Humanoid]] creature of 4 [[SRD:Hit Dice|HD]] or less loses next action.<br />
* [[SRD:Detect Magic|Detect Magic]]: Detects spells and magic items within 60 ft.<br />
* [[SRD:Flare|Flare]]: Dazzles one creature (–1 on [[SRD:Attack Roll|attack rolls]]).<br />
* [[SRD:Ghost Sound|Ghost Sound]]: Figment sounds.<br />
* [[SRD:Know Direction|Know Direction]]: You discern north.<br />
* [[SRD:Light|Light]]: Object shines like a torch.<br />
* [[SRD:Lullaby|Lullaby]]: Makes subject drowsy; –5 on [[SRD:Spot Skill|Spot]] and [[SRD:Listen Skill|Listen]] checks, –2 on [[SRD:Saving Throw|Will]] saves against ''sleep''.<br />
* [[SRD:Mage Hand|Mage Hand]]: 5-pound telekinesis.<br />
* [[SRD:Mending|Mending]]: Makes minor repairs on an object.<br />
* [[SRD:Message|Message]]: Whispered conversation at distance.<br />
* [[SRD:Open/Close|Open/Close]]: Opens or closes small or light things.<br />
* [[SRD:Prestidigitation|Prestidigitation]]: Performs minor tricks.<br />
* [[SRD:Read Magic|Read Magic]]: Read scrolls and spellbooks.<br />
* [[SRD:Resistance|Resistance]]: Subject gains +1 on [[SRD:Saving Throw|saving throws]].<br />
* [[SRD:Summon Instrument|Summon Instrument]]: Summons one instrument of the caster’s choice.<br />
Repair Minor Damage: Repairs 1 point of damage to any construct.<br />
<br />
===1ST-LEVEL BARD SPELLS===<br />
* [[SRD:Alarm|Alarm]]: Wards an area for 2 hours/level.<br />
* [[SRD:Animate Rope|Animate Rope]]: Makes a rope move at your command.<br />
* [[SRD:Cause Fear|Cause Fear]]: One creature of 5 [[SRD:Hit Dice|HD]] or less flees for 1d4 rounds.<br />
* [[SRD:Charm Person|Charm Person]]: Makes one person your friend.<br />
* [[SRD:Comprehend Languages|Comprehend Languages]]: You understand all spoken and written languages.<br />
* [[SRD:Lesser Confusion|Confusion, Lesser]]: One creature is ''[[SRD:Confused|confused]] ''for 1 [[SRD:Round|round]].<br />
* [[SRD:Cure Light Wounds|Cure Light Wounds]]: Cures 1d8 damage +1/level (max +5).<br />
* [[SRD:Detect Secret Doors|Detect Secret Doors]]: Reveals hidden doors within 60 ft.<br />
* [[SRD:Disguise Self|Disguise Self]]: Changes your appearance.<br />
* [[SRD:Erase|Erase]]: Mundane or magical writing vanishes.<br />
* [[SRD:Expeditious Retreat|Expeditious Retreat]]: Your speed increases by 30 ft.<br />
* [[SRD:Feather Fall|Feather Fall]]: Objects or creatures fall slowly.<br />
* [[SRD:Grease|Grease]]: Makes 10-ft. square or one object slippery.<br />
* [[SRD:Hideous Laughter|Hideous Laughter]]: Subject loses actions for 1 [[SRD:Round|round]]/ level.<br />
* [[SRD:Hypnotism|Hypnotism]]: Fascinates 2d4 [[SRD:Hit Dice|HD]] of creatures.<br />
* [[SRD:Identify|Identify]]<SUP>M</SUP> : Determines properties of magic item.<br />
* [[SRD:Magic Mouth|Magic Mouth]]<SUP>M</SUP> : Speaks once when triggered.<br />
* [[SRD:Magic Aura|Magic Aura]]: Alters object’s magic aura.<br />
* [[SRD:Obscure Object|Obscure Object]]: Masks object against scrying.<br />
* [[SRD:Remove Fear|Remove Fear]]: Suppresses fear or gives +4 on saves against fear for one subject + one per four levels.<br />
* [[SRD:Silent Image|Silent Image]]: Creates minor illusion of your design.<br />
* [[SRD:Sleep|Sleep]]: Puts 4 [[SRD:Hit Dice|HD]] of creatures into magical slumber.<br />
* [[SRD:Summon Monster I|Summon Monster I]]: Calls extraplanar creature to fight for you.<br />
* [[SRD:Undetectable Alignment|Undetectable Alignment]]: Conceals alignment for 24 hours.<br />
* [[SRD:Unseen Servant|Unseen Servant]]: [[SRD:Invisible|Invisible]] force obeys your commands.<br />
* [[SRD:Ventriloquism|Ventriloquism]]: Throws voice for 1 min./level.<br />
Repair Light Damage: Repairs 1d8+1/lv (Max 5) damage to any construct.<br />
<br />
===2ND-LEVEL BARD SPELLS===<br />
* [[SRD:Alter Self|Alter Self]]: Assume form of a similar creature.<br />
* [[SRD:Animal Messenger|Animal Messenger]]: Sends a Tiny [[SRD:Animal Type|animal]] to a specific place.<br />
* [[SRD:Animal Trance|Animal Trance]]: Fascinates 2d6 [[SRD:Hit Dice|HD]] of [[SRD:Animal Type|animals]].<br />
* [[SRD:Blindness/Deafness|Blindness/Deafness]]: Makes subject [[SRD:Blinded|blind]] or deaf.<br />
* [[SRD:Blur|Blur]]: Attacks miss subject 20% of the time.<br />
* [[SRD:Calm Emotions|Calm Emotions]]: Calms creatures, negating emotion effects.<br />
* [[SRD:Cat's Grace|Cat's Grace]]: Subject gains +4 to [[SRD:Dexterity|Dex]] for 1 min./level.<br />
* [[SRD:Cure Moderate Wounds|Cure Moderate Wounds]]: Cures 2d8 damage +1/level (max +10).<br />
* [[SRD:Darkness|Darkness]]: 20-ft. radius of supernatural shadow.<br />
* [[SRD:Daze Monster|Daze Monster]]: Living creature of 6 [[SRD:Hit Dice|HD]] or less loses next action.<br />
* [[SRD:Delay Poison|Delay Poison]]: Stops poison from harming subject for 1 hour/ level.<br />
* [[SRD:Detect Thoughts|Detect Thoughts]]: Allows “listening” to surface thoughts.<br />
* [[SRD:Eagle's Splendor|Eagle's Splendor]]: Subject gains +4 to [[SRD:Charisma|Cha]] for 1 min./level.<br />
* [[SRD:Enthrall|Enthrall]]: Captivates all within 100 ft. + 10 ft./level.<br />
* [[SRD:Fox's Cunning|Fox's Cunning]]: Subject gains +4 to [[SRD:Intelligence|Int]] for 1 min./level.<br />
* [[SRD:Glitterdust|Glitterdust]]: Blinds creatures, outlines [[SRD:Invisible|invisible]] creatures.<br />
* [[SRD:Glossolalia|Glossolalia]]: Cone-shaped shriek distracts smart foes, makes concentrating difficult.<br />
* [[SRD:Heroism|Heroism]]: Gives +2 on [[SRD:Attack Roll|attack rolls]], saves, [[SRD:Skill Check|skill checks]].<br />
* [[SRD:Hold Person|Hold Person]]: [[SRD:Paralyzed|Paralyzes]] one [[SRD:Humanoid Type|humanoid]] for 1 [[SRD:Round|round]]/level.<br />
* [[SRD:Hypnotic Pattern|Hypnotic Pattern]]: Fascinates (2d4 + level) [[SRD:Hit Dice|HD]] of creatures.<br />
* [[SRD:Invisibility|Invisibility]]: Subject is [[SRD:Invisible|invisible]] for 1 min./level or until it attacks.<br />
* [[SRD:Locate Object|Locate Object]]: Senses direction toward object (specific or type).<br />
* [[SRD:Minor Image|Minor Image]]: As ''silent image'', plus some sound.<br />
* [[SRD:Mirror Image|Mirror Image]]: Creates decoy duplicates of you (1d4 +1 per three levels, max 8).<br />
* [[SRD:Misdirection|Misdirection]]: Misleads divinations for one creature or object.<br />
* [[SRD:Pyrotechnics|Pyrotechnics]]: Turns fire into blinding light or choking smoke.<br />
* [[SRD:Rage|Rage]]: Gives +2 to [[SRD:Strength|Str]] and [[SRD:Constitution|Con]], +1 on [[SRD:Saving Throw|Will]] saves, –2 to [[SRD:AC|AC]].<br />
* [[SRD:Scare|Scare]]: [[SRD:Panicked|Panics]] creatures of less than 6 [[SRD:Hit Dice|HD]].<br />
* [[SRD:Shatter|Shatter]]: Sonic vibration damages objects or crystalline creatures.<br />
* [[SRD:Silence|Silence]]: Negates sound in 20-ft. radius.<br />
* [[SRD:Sound Burst|Sound Burst]]: Deals 1d8 sonic damage to subjects; may stun them.<br />
* [[SRD:Suggestion|Suggestion]]: Compels subject to follow stated course of action.<br />
* [[SRD:Summon Monster II|Summon Monster II]]: Calls extraplanar creature to fight for you.<br />
* [[SRD:Summon Swarm|Summon Swarm]]: Summons swarm of bats, rats, or spiders.<br />
* [[SRD:Tongues|Tongues]]: Speak any language.<br />
* [[SRD:Whispering Wind|Whispering Wind]]: Sends a short message 1 mile/level.<br />
Repair Moderate Damage: Repairs 2d8+1/lv (Max 10) damage to any construct.<br />
<br />
===3RD-LEVEL BARD SPELLS===<br />
* [[SRD:Blink|Blink]]: You randomly vanish and reappear for 1 [[SRD:Round|round]]/level.<br />
* [[SRD:Charm Monster|Charm Monster]]:Makes monster believe it is your ally.<br />
* [[SRD:Clairaudience/Clairvoyance|Clairaudience/Clairvoyance]]: Hear or see at a distance for 1 min./level.<br />
* [[SRD:Confusion|Confusion]]: Subjects behave oddly for 1 [[SRD:Round|round]]/level.<br />
* [[SRD:Crushing Despair|Crushing Despair]]: Subjects take –2 on [[SRD:Attack Roll|attack rolls]], [[SRD:Attack Damage|damage rolls]], saves, and checks.<br />
* [[SRD:Cure Serious Wounds|Cure Serious Wounds]]: Cures 3d8 damage +1/level (max +15).<br />
* [[SRD:Daylight|Daylight]]: 60-ft. radius of bright light.<br />
* [[SRD:Deep Slumber|Deep Slumber]]: Puts 10 [[SRD:Hit Dice|HD]] of creatures to sleep.<br />
* [[SRD:Dispel Magic|Dispel Magic]]: Cancels magical spells and effects.<br />
* [[SRD:Displacement|Displacement]]: Attacks miss subject 50%.<br />
* [[SRD:Fear|Fear]]: Subjects within cone flee for 1 [[SRD:Round|round]]/level.<br />
* [[SRD:Gaseous Form|Gaseous Form]]: Subject becomes insubstantial and can fly slowly.<br />
* [[SRD:Lesser Geas|Geas, Lesser]]: Commands subject of 7 [[SRD:Hit Dice|HD]] or less.<br />
* [[SRD:Glibness|Glibness]]: You gain +30 bonus on [[SRD:Bluff Skill|Bluff]] checks, and your lies can escape magical discernment.<br />
* [[SRD:Good Hope|Good Hope]]: Subjects gain +2 on [[SRD:Attack Roll|attack rolls]], [[SRD:Attack Damage|damage rolls]], saves, and checks.<br />
* [[SRD:Haste|Haste]]:One creature/level moves faster, +1 on [[SRD:Attack Roll|attack rolls]], [[SRD:AC|AC]], and [[SRD:Saving Throw|Reflex]] saves.<br />
* [[SRD:Illusory Script|Illusory Script]]<SUP>M</SUP>: Only intended reader can decipher.<br />
* [[SRD:Invisibility Sphere|Invisibility Sphere]]:Makes everyone within 10 ft. [[SRD:Invisible|invisible]].<br />
* [[SRD:Major Image|Major Image]]: As ''silent image'', plus sound, smell and thermal effects.<br />
* [[SRD:Phantom Steed|Phantom Steed]]:Magic horse appears for 1 hour/level.<br />
* [[SRD:Remove Curse|Remove Curse]]: Frees object or person from curse.<br />
* [[SRD:Scrying|Scrying]]<SUP>F</SUP>: Spies on subject from a distance.<br />
* [[SRD:Sculpt Sound|Sculpt Sound]]: Creates new sounds or changes existing ones.<br />
* [[SRD:Secret Page|Secret Page]]: Changes one page to hide its real content.<br />
* [[SRD:See Invisibility|See Invisibility]]: Reveals [[SRD:Invisible|invisible]] creatures or objects.<br />
* [[SRD:Sepia Snake Sigil|Sepia Snake Sigil]]<SUP>M</SUP>: Creates text symbol that immobilizes reader.<br />
* [[SRD:Slow|Slow]]: One subject/level takes only one action/[[SRD:Round|round]], –1 to [[SRD:AC|AC]], reflex saves, and [[SRD:Attack Roll|attack rolls]].<br />
* [[SRD:Speak with Animals|Speak with Animals]]: You can communicate with [[SRD:Animal Type|animals]].<br />
* [[SRD:Summon Monster III|Summon Monster III]]: Calls extraplanar creature to fight for you.<br />
* [[SRD:Tiny Hut|Tiny Hut]]: Creates shelter for ten creatures.<br />
Repair Serious Damage: Repairs 3d8+1/lv (max 15) to any construct<br />
<br />
===4TH-LEVEL BARD SPELLS===<br />
* [[SRD:Break Enchantment|Break Enchantment]]: Frees subjects from enchantments, alterations, curses, and petrification.<br />
* [[SRD:Cure Critical Wounds|Cure Critical Wounds]]: Cures 4d8 damage +1/level (max +20).<br />
* [[SRD:Detect Scrying|Detect Scrying]]: Alerts you of magical eavesdropping.<br />
* [[SRD:Dimension Door|Dimension Door]]: Teleports you short distance.<br />
* [[SRD:Dominate Person|Dominate Person]]: Controls [[SRD:Humanoid Type|humanoid]] telepathically.<br />
* [[SRD:Freedom of Movement|Freedom of Movement]]: Subject moves normally despite impediments.<br />
* [[SRD:Hallucinatory Terrain|Hallucinatory Terrain]]: Makes one type of terrain appear like another (field into forest, or the like).<br />
* [[SRD:Hold Monster|Hold Monster]]: As ''hold person'', but any creature.<br />
* [[SRD:Greater Invisibility|Invisibility, Greater]]: As ''[[SRD:Invisibility|invisibility]], ''but subject can attack and stay [[SRD:Invisible|invisible]].<br />
* [[SRD:Legend Lore|Legend Lore]]<SUP>M</SUP><SUP>F</SUP>: Lets you learn tales about a person, place, or thing.<br />
* [[SRD:Locate Creature|Locate Creature]]: Indicates direction to familiar creature.<br />
* [[SRD:Modify Memory|Modify Memory]]: Changes 5 minutes of subject’s memories.<br />
* [[SRD:Neutralize Poison|Neutralize Poison]]: Immunizes subject against poison, detoxifies venom in or on subject.<br />
* [[SRD:Rainbow Pattern|Rainbow Pattern]]: Lights [[SRD:Fascinated|fascinate]] 24 [[SRD:Hit Dice|HD]] of creatures.<br />
* [[SRD:Repel Vermin|Repel Vermin]]: Insects, spiders, and other [[SRD:Vermin Type|vermin]] stay 10 ft. away.<br />
* [[SRD:Secure Shelter|Secure Shelter]]: Creates sturdy cottage.<br />
* [[SRD:Shadow Conjuration|Shadow Conjuration]]: Mimics conjuring below 4th level, but only 20% real.<br />
* [[SRD:Shout|Shout]]: Deafens all within cone and deals 5d6 sonic damage.<br />
* [[SRD:Speak with Plants|Speak with Plants]]: You can talk to normal [[SRD:Plant Type|plants]] and [[SRD:Plant Type|plant]] creatures.<br />
* [[SRD:Summon Monster IV|Summon Monster IV]]: Calls extraplanar creature to fight for you.<br />
* [[SRD:Zone of Silence|Zone of Silence]]: Keeps eavesdroppers from overhearing conversations.<br />
Repair Critical Damage: Repairs 4d8+1/lv (Max 20) points of damage to any construct<br />
<br />
===5TH-LEVEL BARD SPELLS===<br />
* [[SRD:Mass Cure Light Wounds|Cure Light Wounds, Mass]]: Cures 1d8 damage +1/level for many creatures.<br />
* [[SRD:Greater Dispel Magic|Dispel Magic, Greater]]: As ''dispel magic, ''but +20 on check.<br />
* [[SRD:Dream|Dream]]: Sends message to anyone sleeping.<br />
* [[SRD:False Vision|False Vision]]<SUP>M</SUP>: Fools scrying with an illusion.<br />
* [[SRD:Greater Heroism|Heroism, Greater]]: Gives +4 bonus on [[SRD:Attack Roll|attack rolls]], saves, [[SRD:Skill Check|skill checks]]; immunity to fear; temporary hp.<br />
* [[SRD:Mind Fog|Mind Fog]]: Subjects in fog get –10 to [[SRD:Wisdom|Wis]] and [[SRD:Saving Throw|Will]] checks.<br />
* [[SRD:Mirage Arcana|Mirage Arcana]]: As ''hallucinatory terrain, ''plus structures.<br />
* [[SRD:Mislead|Mislead]]: Turns you [[SRD:Invisible|invisible]] and creates illusory double.<br />
* [[SRD:Nightmare (Spell)|Nightmare]]: Sends vision dealing 1d10 damage, [[SRD:Fatigued|fatigue]].<br />
* [[SRD:Persistent Image|Persistent Image]]: As ''major image'', but no concentration required.<br />
* [[SRD:Seeming|Seeming]]: Changes appearance of one person per two levels.<br />
* [[SRD:Shadow Evocation|Shadow Evocation]]: Mimics evocation of lower than 5th level, but only 20% real.<br />
* [[SRD:Shadow Walk|Shadow Walk]]: Step into shadow to travel rapidly.<br />
* [[SRD:Song of Discord|Song of Discord]]: Forces targets to attack each other.<br />
* [[SRD:Mass Suggestion|Suggestion, Mass]]: As ''suggestion, ''plus one subject/level.<br />
* [[SRD:Summon Monster V|Summon Monster V]]: Calls extraplanar creature to fight for you.<br />
<br />
===6TH-LEVEL BARD SPELLS===<br />
* [[SRD:Analyze Dweomer|Analyze Dweomer]]<SUP>F</SUP>: Reveals magical aspects of subject.<br />
* [[SRD:Animate Objects|Animate Objects]]: Objects attack your foes.<br />
* [[SRD:Mass Cat's Grace|Cat's Grace, Mass]]: As ''cat’s grace'', affects one subject/level.<br />
* [[SRD:Mass Charm Monster|Charm Monster, Mass]]: As ''charm monster, ''but all within 30 ft.<br />
* [[SRD:Mass Cure Moderate Wounds|Cure Moderate Wounds, Mass]]: Cures 2d8 damage +1/level for many creatures.<br />
* [[SRD:Mass Eagle's Splendor|Eagle's Splendor, Mass]]: As ''eagle’s splendor'', affects one subject/level.<br />
* [[SRD:Eyebite|Eyebite]]: Target becomes [[SRD:Panicked|panicked]], [[SRD:Sickened|sickened]], and comatose.<br />
* [[SRD:Find the Path|Find the Path]]: Shows most direct way to a location.<br />
* [[SRD:Mass Fox's Cunning|Fox's Cunning, Mass]]: As ''fox’s cunning'', affects one subject/level.<br />
* [[SRD:Geas/Quest|Geas/Quest]]: As ''lesser geas, ''plus it affects any creature.<br />
* [[SRD:Heroes' Feast|Heroes' Feast]]: Food for one creature/level cures and grants combat bonuses''.''<br />
* [[SRD:Irresistible Dance|Irresistible Dance]]: Forces subject to dance.<br />
* [[SRD:Permanent Image|Permanent Image]]: Includes sight, sound, and smell.<br />
* [[SRD:Programmed Image|Programmed Image]]<SUP>M</SUP>: As ''major image'', plus triggered by event.<br />
* [[SRD:Project Image|Project Image]]: Illusory double can talk and cast spells.<br />
* [[SRD:Greater Scrying|Scrying, Greater]]: As ''scrying'', but faster and longer.<br />
* [[SRD:Greater Shout|Shout, Greater]]: Devastating yell deals 10d6 sonic damage; stuns creatures, damages objects.<br />
* [[SRD:Summon Monster VI|Summon Monster VI]]: Calls extraplanar creature to fight for you.<br />
* [[SRD:Sympathetic Vibration|Sympathetic Vibration]]: Deals 2d10 damage/[[SRD:Round|round]] to freestanding structure.<br />
* [[SRD:Veil|Veil]]: Changes appearance of group of creatures.<br />
<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Puppet}}:''' At first level, the Puppet Master gains his puppet. The puppet is a small creature with a base speed of 25ft. The puppets' base abilities are STR-12, DEX-12, CON-12, INT-10, WIS-10, CHA-10. The puppet gains all feats the Puppet Master has. The puppet starts out with a +5 natural armor. The puppet has a d10 hit die with the same number of hit die as the Puppet Master. the puppet deals 1d6 damage and type must be determine upon creation (piercing/slashing/bludgeoning). The puppet is not living, therefore magic effects that only affect living targets don't apply to the puppet; it is also immune to poison and disease. <br />
<br />
A puppet may be magically upgraded like a weapon. Cost for being a puppet is +800gp. Puppets can use wonderous items that can work with their bodies.<br />
<br />
If the puppet Masters puppet gets destroyed or disconnected from the Puppet Master it takes 1d2 days to craft and re-animate another (half the time if it is just disconnected from Puppet Master. . without a puppet, a Puppet Master can only cast half of his available spells per day and is at a -1xlevel too all skill checks and saves with a maximum of -15 (-10 for saves). Craft DC is 15 + 1/4 puppet Master level Cost in raw materials is 50gp x puppet Master lv.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Puppet-Path}}:''' At first level, the Puppet Master chooses a path for his puppet to specialize in, this will give the puppet different abilities based on the chosen path. He advances in his chosen Puppet-Path every five levels after one (Ex. 1, 5, 10, 15, 20). Once set on a path, the Puppet Master can not deviate from or change his puppets chosen path.<br />
<br />
''Puppet-Path I,''<br />
<br />
''Assassin - +3 DEX, -2 CON, -2 STR. Puppet gets the ability Sneak Attack progressing half as fast as ''a Rogue (ex. a second level Puppet Master, with an Assassin puppet would have the Sneak Attack of a 1st level Rogue). The puppets damage is increased to 1d8. Puppets BAB progresses as a same level Rogue. Decrease hit die to d8''<br />
<br />
''Guardian - +3 CON, -2 DEX, -2 STR. The Puppet gets a +1 armor bonus every other level starting at ''1. the Puppet has a damage reduction of 1/- every 3rd level starting at 3. Puppets BAB same as same level Cleric. Increase hit die to d12''<br />
<br />
''Jack of All Trades - +1 to all abilities. all skills available to Puppet Master. Puppets BAB same as Puppet Master. Taking this path will grant the Puppet Master the ability to wear light armor.''<br />
<br />
''Puppet-Path II,''<br />
<br />
''Assassin - +2 DEX, +1 STR, +1 CON. Puppet gets an extra 1d6 added to their existing sneak attack total.''<br />
<br />
''Guardian - +2 CON, +1 STR, +1 DEX. Guardian gets +2 natural AC.''<br />
<br />
''Jack of All Trades - +1 to all abilities. +2 to 5+puppet INT modifier skill checks, made by the Puppet Master, per day.''<br />
<br />
''Puppet-Path III,''<br />
<br />
''Assassin - +3 DEX. Puppets damage increased to 2d8.''<br />
<br />
''Guardian - +3 CON. Puppet gains an extra 2+CON modifier per level starting at 10 (Ex. the puppet has a CON modifier of +6, every level, in addition to their normal health, they add 8 more health).''<br />
<br />
''Jack of All Trades - +2 to all abilities. Puppet Master gains the "Re-Roll" ability. <br />
'' "Re-Roll" - the Puppet Master may make re-roll a failed skill check 5+Puppet Master INT modifier times per day''<br />
<br />
''Puppet-Path IV,''<br />
<br />
''Assassin - +1 STR, +1 CON. Puppet gains fury of blows.''<br />
<br />
''Guardian - +1 DEX, +1 STR. Puppet gains extra 4/- damage reduction.''<br />
<br />
''Jack of All Trades - +1 to all abilities. Puppet Master can now make skill checks as if he were in the same square as the puppet, this incurs penalties such as attacks of opportunity.''<br />
<br />
''Puppet-Path V,''<br />
<br />
''Assassin - +2 DEX. Assassin gains the supernatural ability to, once per week, make an attempt to ''instantly kill one opponent, this can only be done on an opponent that has been denied his DEX ''bonus to AC. Once initiated the opponent gets to make a fort save with a DC of 10+puppets DEX bonus+Puppet Masters DEX bonus.''<br />
<br />
''Guardian - +2 CON. Guardian gains the ability to re-generate half his total HP, twice per day.''<br />
<br />
''Jack of All Trades - +2 to all abilities. Puppet Master can now cast spells originating from the ''puppet, this incurs all penalties such as attacks of opportunity. Making a ranged/touch attack from the puppet, add half the puppets DEX bonus to hit.''<br />
<br />
====<-Sample race of your choice-> <-class name-> Starting Package====<br />
<br />
'''Weapons:''' <-Weapon selection for starting at 1st level with this class.->.<br />
<br />
'''Skill Selection:''' Pick a number of skills equal to 4 + [[Int]] modifier.<br />
<br />
{| class="{{d20}}"<br />
|-<br />
! class="left" | Skill || Ranks || Ability || Armor<br/>Check<br/>Penalty<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| class="left" | <-Skill name-> || <-4 for class skills and 2 for cross-class skills-> || <-Abbrieviated key ability-> || <-armor check penalty based on starting armor. If innapplicable put "&mdash;"-><br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| class="left" | <-Skill name-> || <-4 for class skills and 2 for cross-class skills-> || <-Abbrieviated key ability-> || <-armor check penalty based on starting armor. If innapplicable put "&mdash;"-><br />
<-copy and paste the rows as necessary.-><br />
|}<br />
<br />
'''Feat:''' <-1st-level feat selection->.<br />
<br />
'''Bonus Feats:''' <-1st-level feat bonus feats due to class or sample race. remove this section if this sample doesn't get any bonus feats at 1st level. ->.<br />
<br />
'''Gear:''' <-Starting armor and other equipment outside of weapons.->.<br />
<br />
'''Gold:''' <-Starting gold using this package.->.<br />
<br />
====Playing a <-class name->====<br />
<br />
'''Religion:''' <-description of how this class typically (but no exclusively) approaches religion including likely portfolios it would worship->.<br />
<br />
'''Other Classes:''' <-How this class typically interacts with other classes and how characters of this class interact with characters of other classes->.<br />
<br />
'''Combat:''' <-Typical role in combat->.<br />
<br />
'''Advancement:''' <-Typical advancement options for characters with this class. Include desirable multiclass options->.<br />
<br />
====<-pluralized class name-> in the World====<br />
<br />
{{Section Description Needed}}<br />
<br />
{{quote|<-Some quote from a character of this class->|orig=<-NPC name->, <-race-> <-class->}}<br />
<br />
<-Where characters of this class fit in a d20 world.-><br />
<br />
'''Daily Life:''' <-day in the life of a character of this class->.<br />
<br />
'''Notables:''' <-notable NPCs of this class->.<br />
<br />
'''Organizations:''' <-info on what, where, when, and how characters of this class congregtate and assemble->.<br />
<br />
'''NPC Reactions:''' <-How NPCs react to PCs of this class->.<br />
<br />
====<-class name-> Lore====<br />
<br />
{{Section Description Needed}}<br />
<br />
Characters with ranks in <-the appropriate skills-> can research <-pluralized class name-> to learn more about them. When a character makes a skill check, read or paraphrase the following, including information from lower DCs.<br />
<br />
{| class="{{d20}}"<br />
|+ <-the appropriate skills-><br />
! DC || class="left" | Result<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 5 || class="left" | <-common knowledge->.<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 10 || class="left" | <-not so common knowledge->.<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 15 || class="left" | <-rare information->.<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 20 || class="left" | <-very rare information->.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
====<-pluralized class name-> in the Game====<br />
<br />
{{Section Description Needed}}<br />
<br />
<-How characters of this class fit in the game (PC and NPC) and what roles they play.-><br />
<br />
'''Adaptation:''' <-Possible variant conceptions of this class.->.<br />
<br />
'''Sample Encounter:''' <-DM placement for NPCs of this class.->.<br />
<br />
''EL whatever:'' <-Encounter scenario and character info on sample NPC including stat block. The CR of the NPC is typically the same as the EL for the encounter.->.<br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
{{DnD Base Classes Breadcrumb}}<br />
{{Base Class Wikify|March 2009}}<br />
{{Base Class Description Needed|March 2009}}<br />
{{Base Class Stub|March 2009}}<br />
[[Category:DnD]]<br />
[[Category:3.5e]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Class]]<br />
[[Category:Base Class]]<br />
<!-- additional categories. Possible categories include:<br />
[[Category:Good Guy]]<br />
[[Category:Bad Guy]]<br />
[[Category:Combat-Focused]]<br />
[[Category:Skilled]]<br />
[[Category:Moderate Spellcasting]]<br />
[[Category:Strong Spellcasting]]<br />
[[Category:Arcane Spellcasting]]<br />
[[Category:Divine Spellcasting]]<br />
[[Category:Prepared Spellcasting]]<br />
[[Category:Spontaneous Spellcasting]]<br />
--></div>ThunderGod Cidhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Empusar_(3.5e_Class)&diff=452693Empusar (3.5e Class)2010-01-22T01:24:31Z<p>ThunderGod Cid: /* Empusar Lore */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{DnD Base Class Infobox<br />
|img=49413-lust by erina large.jpg<br />
|imgloc=<br />
|imgsize=320px<br />
|imgcaption=<br />
|rating_power= 4<br />
|raters_power= 1<br />
|rating_wording= 5<br />
|raters_wording= 1<br />
|rating_formatting= 4.5<br />
|raters_formatting= 1<br />
|rating_flavor= 5<br />
|raters_flavor= 1<br />
|authors=[[User:ThunderGod Cid|ThunderGod Cid]]<br />
|datecreated=May 25, 2009<br />
|status=Finished except for NPC<br />
|editing=Post suggestions on discussion<br />
|type=Skilled, Bad Guy<br />
|desc=Part mortal, part succubus, all evil bitch.<br />
}}<br />
<br />
==Empusar==<br />
<br />
As the primary female demons in existence, succubi often go to bed with mortals, and the unique physiology of these abyssal fiends allows for some unique offspring. The rare product of this unholy union is an empusar. <br />
<br />
===Making an Empusar===<br />
<br />
The empusar is a temptress, a coy and articulate seducer of others and an evoker of evil. Beneath her passionate façade lies a manipulative and violent side that she only reveals at the exact moment when she is ready to strike. With the charm and evil of her succubus lineage, the empusar is a formidable (if deceptive) opponent.<br />
<br />
'''Abilities:''' [[Charisma]] is by far the most important ability for the empusar; it boosts her Armor Class, is the key stat for most of her skills, and affects the DC's for her abilities. Since many empusars wear little or no armor, Dexterity is the next most important stat in helping her overcome her deficiencies in battle, making her harder to hit and increasing her abilit to survive.<br />
<br />
'''Races:''' Empusars are overwhelmingly human, as a succubus rarely takes any other form. Exceptions do exist, but are rare.<br />
<br />
'''Alignment:''' Any non-good. Unlike their demonic ancestors, empusars are not bound to any particular alignment, but their heritage is persuasive enough to turn them from the path of good.<br />
<br />
'''Starting Gold:''' As [[SRD:Bard|bard]].<br />
<br />
'''[[SRD:Race Descriptions#Starting Age|Starting Age]]:''' Simple.<br />
<br />
{| class="{{d20}}"<br />
|+<br />
<div>{{#anc:Table: The Empusar}}</div><br />
Hit Die: d8<br />
|-<br />
! rowspan="2" | Level<br />
! rowspan="2" | [[BAB|Base<br/>Attack Bonus]]<br />
! colspan="3" | [[SRD:Saving Throw|Saving Throw]]s<br />
! rowspan="2" | Special<br />
! rowspan="2" | [[#Profane Beauty|AC<br/>Bonus]]<br />
|-<br />
! [[SRD:Saving Throw#Fortitude|Fort]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Reflex|Ref]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Will|Will]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|1st|| class="left" | +0 || +0 || +2 || +2<br />
| class="left" | [[#Naraka Nails|Naraka Nails]], [[#Profane Beauty|Profane Beauty]]|| class="left" |+0<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|2nd|| class="left" | +1 || +0 || +3 || +3<br />
| class="left" | [[#Satanic Spite|Satanic Spite +1d6]]|| class="left" | +0<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|3rd|| class="left" | +2 || +1 || +3 || +3<br />
| class="left" | [[#Hell Hath No Fury...|Hell Hath No Fury...]]|| class="left" | +0<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|4th||class="left" | +3 || +1 || +4 || +4<br />
| class="left" | [[#Satanic Spite|Satanic Spite +2d6]]|| class="left" | +0<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|5th||class="left" | +3 || +1 || +4 || +4<br />
| class="left" | [[#Symphony of the Damned|Symphony of the Damned]]|| class="left" | +1<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|6th||class="left" | +4 || +2 || +5 || +5<br />
| class="left" | [[#Satanic Spite|Satanic Spite +3d6]]|| class="left" |+1<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|7th||class="left" | +5 || +2 || +5 || +5<br />
| class="left" | [[#Poison Polish|Poison Polish]]|| class="left" | +1<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|8th||class="left" | +6/+1 || +2 || +6 || +6<br />
| class="left" | [[#Satanic Spite|Satanic Spite +4d6]]|| class="left" | +1<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|9th||class="left" | +6/+1 || +3 || +6 || +6<br />
| class="left" | [[#Malicious Embrace|Malicious Embrace]] (1)|| class="left" | +1<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|10th||class="left" | +7/+2 || +3 || +7 || +7<br />
| class="left" | [[#Payback’s A Bitch|Payback’s A Bitch]], [[#Satanic Spite|Satanic Spite +5d6]]|| class="left" | +2<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|11th||class="left" | +8/+3 || +3 || +7 || +7<br />
| class="left" | [[#Nine Inch Nails|Nine Inch Nails]]|| class="left" | +2<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|12th||class="left" | +9/+4 || +4 || +8 || +8<br />
| class="left" | [[#Satanic Spite|Satanic Spite +6d6]], [[#Tongue of the Serpent|Tongue of the Serpent]]|| class="left" | +2<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|13th||class="left" | +9/+4 || +4 || +8 || +8<br />
| class="left" | [[#Devil’s Plaything|Devil’s Plaything]]|| class="left" | +2<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|14th||class="left" | +10/+5 || +4 || +9 || +9<br />
| class="left" | [[#Satanic Spite|Satanic Spite +7d6]], [[#Malicious Embrace|Malicious Embrace]] (2)|| class="left" | +2<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|15th||class="left" | +11/+6/+1 || +5 || +9 || +9<br />
| class="left" | [[#Heartthrob|Heartthrob]]|| class="left" | +3<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|16th||class="left" | +12/+7/+2 || +5 || +10 || +10<br />
| class="left" | [[#Satanic Spite|Satanic Spite +8d6]]|| class="left" | +3<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|17th||class="left" | +12/+7/+2 || +5 || +10 || +10<br />
| class="left" | [[#Mind Reaver|Mind Reaver]]|| class="left" | +3<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|18th||class="left" | +13/+8/+3 || +6 || +11 || +11<br />
| class="left" | [[#Satanic Spite|Satanic Spite +9d6]]|| class="left" | +3<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|19th||class="left" | +14/+9/+4 || +6 || +11 || +11<br />
| class="left" | [[#Malicious Embrace|Malicious Embrace]] (3)|| class="left" | +3<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|20th||class="left" | +15/+10/+5 || +6 || +12 || +12<br />
| class="left" | [[#Satanic Spite|Satanic Spite +10d6]], [[#The Devil’s Daughter|The Devil’s Daughter]]|| class="left" | +4<br />
|-<br />
| colspan="42" class="skill" |<br />
'''Class Skills (6 + [[SRD:Intelligence|Int]] modifier per level, &times;4 at 1st level)'''<br/><br />
[[Balance]] ([[SRD:Dexterity|Dex]]), [[Bluff]] ([[SRD:Charisma|Cha]]), [[Concentration]] ([[SRD:Constitution|Con]]), [[Diplomacy]] ([[SRD:Charisma|Cha]]), [[Disguise]] ([[SRD:Charisma|Cha]]), [[Craft|Craft (poisonmaking)]] ([[SRD:Intelligence|Int]]), [[Escape Artist]] ([[SRD:Dexterity|Dex]]), [[Gather Information]] ([[SRD:Charisma|Cha]]), [[Hide]] ([[SRD:Dexterity|Dex]]), [[Jump]] ([[SRD:Strength|Str]]), [[Knowledge|Knowledge (all skills, taken individually)]] ([[SRD:Intelligence|Int]]), [[Listen]] ([[SRD:Wisdom|Wis]]), [[Move Silently]] ([[SRD:Dexterity|Dex]]), [[Perform]] ([[SRD:Charisma|Cha]]), [[Sense Motive]] ([[SRD:Wisdom|Wis]]), [[Sleight of Hand]] ([[SRD:Dexterity|Dex]]), [[Spellcraft]] ([[SRD:Intelligence|Int]]), [[Swim]] ([[SRD:Strength|Str]]), [[Tumble]] ([[SRD:Dexterity|Dex]]), [[Use Magic Device]] ([[SRD:Charisma|Cha]]).<br />
|}<br />
<br />
====Class Features====<br />
<br />
All of the following are class features of the empusar.<br />
<br />
'''Weapon and Armor Proficiency:''' An empusar is proficient with all simple weapons and no forms of armor.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Naraka Nails}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' The empusar’s fingernails can be extended and hardened to form sharp claws that deal devastating damage to her opponents. These claws deal damage based on the empusar’s size (see the table below), have a critical threat range of 18-20, and deal double damage on a critical hit. Naraka nails are natural weapons, and as a result the empusar does not incur attacks of opportunity when attacking with the nails and is considered automatically proficient with them. The empusar attacks with her full base attack bonus when using the nails (instead of only recieving one attack per round) and can use either one or two sets of claws. Each set of nails counts as a light slashing weapon for the purposes of fighting with two weapons. The empusar can take [[Weapon Finesse]] and other associated feats for the nails. In addition, the Naraka nails gain a +1 enhancement bonus at 3rd level, which increases by +1 every four levels thereafter (up to +5 at 19th level).<br />
<br />
{| class="{{d20}}"<br />
|+ {{#anc:Table: Naraka Nails}}<br />
|-<br />
! rowspan="1" | Empusar Size || Base Claw Damage<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| Fine || 1d2 <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| Diminutive || 1d3 <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| Tiny || 1d4 <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| Small || 1d6 <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| Medium || 1d8 <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| Large || 2d6 <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| Huge || 3d6 <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| Gargantuan || 4d6 <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| Colossal || 6d6 <br />
|}<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Profane Beauty}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' An empusar is a stunning physical specimen, so much so that it is difficult to land a hit on her in combat. She gains a deflection bonus to [[Armor Class]] equal to her [[Charisma]] bonus (if positive), provided she wears no armor. In addition, she also gains a +1 bonus to AC at 5th level. This value increases by +1 every five empusar levels thereafter. She also gains a bonus on [[Bluff]], [[Intimidate]], and [[Diplomacy]] checks equal to one half her class level.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Satanic Spite}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' Once per round, an empusar can fill an ally or foe with a horrible, malicious rage that makes them strike with extra force. She may add the specified amount of damage to the roll of any combatant she wishes, provided it is not herself. The damage added by satanic spite is always lethal damage, even if the combatant to whose attack the damage is added is trying to deal subdual damage. This damage is never multiplied; it is only added at the end after normal damage has been calculated. The empusar gains an additional 1d6 extra damage with Satanic spite at ever even level. The use of satanic spite is an [[SRD:Immediate Actions|immediate action]] that can be used on any opponent the empusar can see (this need not be a direct line of sight, and the ability can be used through ''[[SRD:Clairaudience/Clairvoyance|clairvoyance]]'' or a similar effect). The empusar need not make any motion or sound when using satanic spite, as having to do so may unnecessarily implicate her.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Hell Hath No Fury...}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' ...like a woman scorned. An empusar’s Naraka nails are now treated as evil-aligned for the purposes of overcoming [[damage reduction]] at 3rd level.<br />
<br />
'''''{{#anc:Symphony of the Damned}}'' ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Spell-Like|Sp]]):''' The empusar may replicate the effect of a ''song of festering death'' spell (''[[Book of Vile Darkness]]'' 104) three times per day at fifth level. If she succeeds at a [[Perform|Perform (singing)]] check (DC 20), a single target must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + ½ empusar level + Charisma modifier) or take 2d6 points of damage each round as their skin boils and festers. The empusar must continue making the Perform check for every round that this ability is in effect.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Poison Polish}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' The empusar gains the ability to coat her nails in poison at 7th level. This poison may be any that the empusar can make with a successful [[Craft]] (poisonmaking) check, but it must be spread through an injury. The empusar never risks poisoning herself when applying poison to her nails or another weapon.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Malicious Embrace}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Supernatural|Su]]):''' Just like a succubus, an empusar can drain a victim of life energy through physical contact, usually in the form of a kiss. If the target is not willing to be kissed, then the empusar must initiate a [[grapple]], provoking an attack of opportunity. This ability drains one [[SRD:Energy Drain, Negative Levels, and Level Loss|negative level]] for each round that the empusar maintains this contact. The kiss also carries the effect of a ''[[suggestion]]'' spell, dissuading the victim from resisting. The victim can make a Fortitude save to remove a negative level and a Will save to resist the ''suggestion''; the DC’s for both of these effect is equal to 10 + one half the empusar’s level + the empusar’s [[Charisma]] modifier. An empusar draining negative levels gains temporary hit points normally when draining energy in this manner.<br />
<br />
The empusar's malicious embrace is strengthened at 14th level, allowing her to drain two negative levels per round instead of one. This improves further to 3 negative levels per round at 19th level.<br />
<br />
'''''{{#anc:Payback's A Bitch}}'' ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Spell-Like|Sp]]):''' Three times per day at 10th level, an empusar can fire a greenish black ray that has the same effect as a ''love’s pain'' spell (''[[Book of Vile Darkness|BoVD]]'' 98) as a ranged touch attack. The ray deals 1d6 points of damage per two empusar levels (maximum 10d6) not to the target, but rather to the person dearest to them. [Note: Deciding the identity of the dearest person is a cooperative decision between the player and the DM.] On the off chance that the target has no loved one, they take the damage instead. The ray is 100 feet long + 10 feet per empusar level, but there is no limit on the distance between the subject and the loved one. There is no saving throw for this ability and no form of spell resistance applies; however, if the target (either the ray’s target or the affected love one) is in an antimagic field, the spell has no effect.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Nine Inch Nails}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' At 11th level, the empusar’s nails now attack as if they were made out of [[SRD:Adamantine|adamantine]] and had the ''[[SRD:Keen|keen]]'' enchantment.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Tongue of the Serpent}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Supernatural|Su]]):''' An empusar has a permanent ''[[tongues]]'' ability (as the spell) at 12th level. The caster level is equal to the empusar’s level.<br />
<br />
'''''{{#anc:Devil's Plaything}}'' ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Spell-Like|Sp]]):''' Idle hands are the devil’s playthings. Three times per day, an empusar can magically amputate the hand of one living humanoid within a range of 100 feet plus 10 feet per empusar level. This deals 6d6 damage to the target, and the amputated hand then proceeds to attack as a [[wight]] (except that it is considered Tiny and therefore gains a +4 bonus to attack rolls and Armor Class). The hand can be turned or rebuked, but once it is slain only a ''[[regenerate]]'' spell will reattach it. A successful [[SRD:Saving Throw|Fortitude]] save (DC 10 + ½ empusar level + empusar’s [[Charisma]] modifier) negates the effect.<br />
<br />
'''''{{#anc:Heartthrob}}'' ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Spell-Like|Sp]]):''' The empusar is extremely effective at fooling others into believing they are in love. The victim’s heart believes it too, at least for a moment, until the empusar causes it to stop. This ability is identical to the ''heartclutch'' spell, causing the target who fails a Fortitude save (DC 10 + ½ empusar level + [[Charisma]] modifier) to die in 1d3 rounds unless a ''[[regenerate]]'', ''[[heal]]'', ''[[miracle]]'' or ''[[wish]]'' spell is cast upon them within that time. A target who succeeds on the save still takes 3d6 points of damage +1 damage per empusar level. A creature with no discernible anatomy is unaffected by this ability, and the empusar can use it a number of times per day equal to her [[Charisma]] modifier day starting at 15th level.<br />
<br />
'''''{{#anc:Mind Reaver}}'' ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Spell-Like|Sp]]):''' Once per day at 17th level, the empusar can enter the mind of a creature as the ''mindrape'' spell (''[[Book of Vile Darkness|BoVD]]'' 99). She can alter emotions, memories, allegiances, and even alignment. She is also able to inflict the effects of the ''[[insanity]]'' spell upon the unfortunate victim when she is done. Alignment changes can be corrected by a ''[[break enchantment]]'' spell (although an ''[[atonement]]'' spell might also be necessary), but serious alterations to memories can only be reversed via a ''[[wish]]'' or ''[[miracle]]'' spell. A successful [[SRD:Saving Throw|Will]] save (DC 10 + ½ empusar level + empusar’s [[Charisma]] modifier) will negate this effect.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:The Devil's Daughter}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' At 20th level, the empusar has transcended the bonds of mortality and become a powerful agent of the Lower Planes. She gains the [[SRD:Half-Fiend|half-fiend]] template, but with a few exceptions. She does not gain the claw attacks of a normal [[SRD:Half-Fiend|half-fiend]]; instead, the base damage of her Naraka nails goes up by one step as if she had gained one size category. She also gains the [[SRD:Native Subtype|native]] subtype when she becomes an [[outsider]]. She also does not gain wings or the spell-like abilities from being a half-fiend, in return for an additional +4 bonus to her [[Charisma]] score. The empusar can suppress her fiendish appearance at will, and only a ''[[true seeing]]'' spell from a caster with a level greater than that of the empusar will reveal her true form.<br />
<br />
====Ex-Empusars====<br />
<br />
If an empusar ever becomes of good alignment, she loses all her class features except for the Naraka nails and profane beauty. She regains these abilities when she ceases being good-aligned and recieves an ''[[atonement]]'' spell from an evil cleric.<br />
<br />
====Epic Empusar====<br />
<br />
{| class="{{d20}}"<br />
|+ class="epic" |<br />
<div>{{#anc:Table: The Epic Empusar}}</div><br />
Hit Die: d6<br />
|-<br />
! Level <br />
! [[#Profane Beauty|AC<br/>Bonus]]<br />
! Special<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 21st || +4 || class="left" | [[#Bonus Feats|Bonus Feat]] <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 22nd || +4 || class="left" | [[#Satanic Spite|Satanic Spite +11d6]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 23rd || +4 || class="left" | <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 24th || +4 || class="left" | [[#Satanic Spite|Satanic Spite +12d6]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 25th || +5 || class="left" | [[#Bonus Feats|Bonus Feat]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 26th || +5 || class="left" | [[#Satanic Spite|Satanic Spite +13d6]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 27th || +5 || class="left" | <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 28th || +5 || class="left" | [[#Satanic Spite|Satanic Spite +14d6]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 29th || +5 || class="left" | [[#Bonus Feats|Bonus Feat]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 30th || +6 || class="left" | [[#Satanic Spite|Satanic Spite +15d6]]<br />
|-<br />
| colspan="42" class="skill" |<br />
6 + [[SRD:Intelligence|Int]] modifier skill points per level.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
'''Naraka Nails:''' An empic empusar's naraka nails are treated as epic weapons for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction; however, the bases damage or enhancement bonuses do not increase.<br />
<br />
'''Profane Beauty:''' The empusar's AC bonus continues to increase every five levels.<br />
<br />
'''Satanic Spite:''' The empusar continues to gain additional damage for her satanic spite ability.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc: Bonus Feats }}:''' The epic empusar gains a bonus feat (selected from the list of epic empusar bonus feats) at 21st level and every four levels afterwards.<br />
<br />
''Epic Empusar Bonus Feat List:'' [[Epic Prowess]], [[SRD:Epic Speed|Epic Speed]], [[SRD:Epic Reputation|Epic Reputation]], [[Epic Weapon Focus]], [[SRD:Great Charisma|Great Charisma]], [[SRD:Great Dexterity|Great Dexterity]], [[Perfect Health]], [[SRD:Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting|Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting]], [[SRD:Superior Initiative|Superior Initiative]], [[SRD:Two-Weapon Rend|Two-Weapon Rend]].<br />
<br />
====Human Empusar Starting Package====<br />
<br />
'''Weapons:''' [[#Naraka Nails|Naraka nails]]<br />
<br />
'''Skill Selection:''' Pick a number of skills equal to 4 + [[Int]] modifier.<br />
<br />
{| class="{{d20}}"<br />
|-<br />
! class="left" | Skill || Ranks || Ability || Armor<br/>Check<br/>Penalty<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| class="left" | [[Diplomacy]] || 4 || Cha || &mdash;<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| class="left" | [[Perform]] || 4 || Cha || &mdash;<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| class="left" | [[Spellcraft]] || 4 || Int || &mdash;<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| class="left" | [[Tumble]] || 4 || Dex || &mdash;<br />
|}<br />
<br />
'''Feat:''' [[Improved Initiative]]<br />
<br />
'''Bonus Feats:''' [[Weapon Finesse]]<br />
<br />
'''Gear:''' Bedroll.<br />
<br />
'''Gold:''' 20 gp.<br />
<br />
===Campaign Information===<br />
<br />
====Playing an Empusar====<br />
<br />
'''Religion:''' Empusars with religious tendencies are commonly agents of demonic cults or the churches of evil deities. They travel as recruiters for these evil organizations, goading their victims into evil and sin. Others have little or no caring for religion at all, merely living with a completely worry-free existence devoted to the enjoyment of hedonistic pleasures. <br />
<br />
'''Other Classes:''' Empusars are most tolerated in evil parties, where it may not necessarily be uncommon to have gained your power through an unholy union. [[SRD:Paladin|Paladins]] infuriate empusars to no end, for their righteous morals interfere with the empusar's advances on unsuspecting victims and undercut many of her usual tactics. Most other classes are met by the empusar with ambivalence; in keeping with her fiendish ancestors, she is usually too self-absorbed to care about anyone else.<br />
<br />
'''Combat:''' An empusar is no slouch in combat; what she lacks in physical power she makes up for in grace and temperament. Having wickedly sharp claws doesn't hurt her chances too much, either. Her best effectiveness, however, is achieved through deception and underhanded trickery, which empusars accomplish with great aplomb and many with frightening glee.<br />
<br />
'''Advancement:''' Empusars are attracted to the power of seduction, and as a result many supplement their powers through arcane study; given their demonic lineage, sorcery is a particularly natural talent. Others become thralls to a powerful demon, usually one who represents temptation (Grazz't or the succubus quenn Malcanthet, for example).<br />
<br />
====Empusars in the World====<br />
<br />
{{quote|''It is said that power corrupts, but actually it's more true that power attracts the corruptible. I’m not making these people do anything; I’m merely showing them an alternate path to what they desire.''|orig=Naamah Malkuth, human empusar}}<br />
<br />
Empusars use their beauty to great advantage, posing as callgirls and escorts to lure unsuspecting victims into their grasp with promises of sexual fulfillment. Non-evil empusars are often less willing to partake in such promiscuity, often finding themselves at odds with their lineage and powers. <br />
<br />
Despite their compassionate appearances, empusars have little concept of human emotions such as love. To most, love is merely an offshoot of lust, which is in turn a tool used to prey on the desperate and greedy. Every once in a while, though, an empusar may develop a lustful obsession with a particular being, usually one of good alignment and high [[Charisma]] (they are spawned from the demons of lust and temptation, after all). She will temporarily become tremendously single-minded, focusing all her attentions on that individual and thinking of nothing else. That person occupies their every thought and pervades every waking moment; an empusar in such a state will often not sleep or eat. This fixation can only be satisfied when that person lies dead at their feet, their energy sucked dry by the empusar’s [[#Malicous Embrace|malicious embrace]].<br />
<br />
'''Daily Life:''' An empusar delights in exotic pleasures of all kinds. They are materialistic and covetous to the extreme, flourishing in environments populated by evil beings. An inexperienced empusar typically finds company so she may hone her skills; those with more power are no less personable, but their goals are more focused on pleasure and ecstasy than prosperity. As a result, even intelligent empusars will rarely think very far ahead, their concentration only on the present.<br />
<br />
'''Notables:''' Naamah Malkuth is considered to be one of the ultimate high-class courtesans. Her reputation for unbridled enthusiasm in sensual pleasures is well-deserved. If the rumors are to be believed, she has been closely associated with a number of monarchs (both male and female) in the double digits. Her nomadic but always well-adorned lifestyle has made her infamous throughout the land.<br />
<br />
'''Organizations:''' Empusars have no organization; it is rare to have multiple empusars even in the same region at the same time. Very few are even aware of each others' existence, and they likely wouldn't care much if they did.<br />
<br />
'''NPC Reactions:''' Empusars are almost always alluring to the eye; everywhere they go, they are the center of attention. What better way to enjoy their wild lifestyle than to appeal to as many different people as possible? Those who see their devilish powers, however, are much more fearful, often deservedly feeling as through they have been trapped.<br />
<br />
====Empusar Lore====<br />
<br />
Characters with ranks in [[Knowledge]] (the planes) can research empusars to learn more about them. When a character makes a skill check, read or paraphrase the following, including information from lower DCs.<br />
<br />
{| class="{{d20}}"<br />
|+ Knowledge (the planes)<br />
! DC || class="left" | Result<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 5 || class="left" | An empusar is usually a stunningly beautiful woman, a conniving and manipulative beauty possessing terrible power.<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 10 || class="left" | Beware of her sharp claws, which can rend flesh as easily as any sword.<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 15 || class="left" | Empusars have a variety of magical powers as well, most of which are geared towards spreading misery and anguish.<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 20 || class="left" | Empusars are the offspring of succubi; like their parents, they are all female and use their wiles to spread corruption.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
====Empusars in the Game====<br />
<br />
An evil empusar is a classic villainess, using her powers to sow discord amongst the PC's and their allies. She can also be an interesting anti-hero; though her methods may not always be the most conventional, they are undeniably effective.<br />
<br />
'''Adaptation:''' Fiendish offspring esist in nearly every D&D campaign. Adaptation of the empusar from the child of a succubus to that of some other demon is quite simple.<br />
<br />
'''Sample Encounter:''' <-DM placement for NPCs of this class.->.<br />
<br />
''EL <!-- EL Number -->:'' <-Encounter scenario and character info on sample NPC including stat block. The CR of the NPC is typically the same as the EL for the encounter.->.<br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
[[Category:DnD]]<br />
[[Category:3.5e]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Class]]<br />
[[Category:Base Class]]<br />
[[Category:Bad Guy]]<br />
[[Category:Skilled]]</div>ThunderGod Cidhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Battosai_(3.5e_Prestige_Class)&diff=450888Battosai (3.5e Prestige Class)2010-01-11T21:55:19Z<p>ThunderGod Cid: Undo revision 450835 by Johnjoe (Talk) same as before</p>
<hr />
<div>{{DnD Prestige Class Infobox<br />
|img=Shishio makoto by mohomen.png<br />
|imgloc=top<br />
|imgsize=300px<br />
|imgcaption=<br />
|rating_power=<br />
|raters_power=<br />
|rating_wording=<br />
|raters_wording=<br />
|rating_formatting=<br />
|raters_formatting=<br />
|rating_flavor=<br />
|raters_flavor=<br />
|authors=[[User:Jota|Jota]] & [[User:ThunderGod Cid|Cid]]<br />
|datecreated=June 25, 2009<br />
|adopters=<br />
|dateadopted=<br />
|status=Done except for NPC <br />
|editing=Post suggestions on discussion<br />
|type=Combat-Focused<br />
|desc=A swordsman who practices battōjutsu, the art of drawing a sword from its sheath in order to increase its speed and power.<br />
|len=3<br />
|minlvl=12<br />
}}<br />
<br />
==Battōsai==<br />
<br />
{{quote<br />
|''His sword already had the speed to rival a god. But now, as the Battōsai, his sword surpasses god-like speed. It's like nothing you've ever seen before.''<br />
|orig=Tojiro, elf tenken<br />
}}<br />
<br />
Battōjutsu is the practice of drawing the sword from the sheath as the wielder attacks, greatly increasing the blade’s velocity and attack power. The battōsai practices this technique extensively until he is able to use it to deliver a single destructive attack.<br />
<br />
===Becoming a Battōsai===<br />
<br />
Battōsai are expert swordsmen who seek to find speed that exceeds mortal ken. For whatever reason, they have found battōjutsu to be the answer they were looking for. Armed with it, they are formidable warriors who can defeat enemies in a single strike.<br />
<br />
<!-- remove or add requirements as necessary --><br />
{| class="d20 dragon monstats" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"<br />
|+ style="font-size: larger; white-space: nowrap;" | Entry Requirements<br />
|-<br />
! Base Attack Bonus:<br />
| +6<br />
|-<br />
! Skills:<br />
| [[Sleight of Hand]] 8 ranks.<br />
|-<br />
! Feats:<br />
| [[Quick Draw]], [[Combat Reflexes]].<br />
|-<br />
! Abiltiy Scores:<br />
| [[Dexterity]] 16<br />
|-<br />
|} <br />
<br />
{| class="{{d20}}"<br />
|+ <div>{{#anc:Table: The Battōsai}}</div><br />
<p>Hit Die: d10</p><br />
|-<br />
! rowspan="2" | Level<br />
! rowspan="2" | [[BAB|Base<br/>Attack Bonus]]<br />
! colspan="3" | [[SRD:Saving Throw|Saving Throw]]s<br />
! rowspan="2" | Special<br />
|-<br />
! [[SRD:Saving Throw#Fortitude|Fort]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Reflex|Ref]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Will|Will]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 1st || +1 || +0 || +2 || +0<br />
| class="left" | [[#Battōjutsu|Battōjutsu]], [[#Tenken Abilities|Tenken Abilities]] <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 2nd || +2 || +0 || +3 || +0<br />
| class="left" | [[#Lethality|Lethality]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 3rd || +3 || +1 || +3 || +1<br />
| class="left" | [[#Mortal Draw|Mortal Draw]]<br />
|-<br />
| colspan="42" class="skill" |<br />
'''Class Skills (6 + [[Int]] modifier per level)'''<br/><br />
[[Balance]] ([[SRD:Dexterity|Dex]]), [[Climb]] ([[SRD:Strength|Str]]), [[Escape Artist]] ([[SRD:Dexterity|Dex]]), [[SRD:Heal Skill|Heal]] ([[SRD:Wisdom|Wis]]), [[Jump]] ([[SRD:Strength|Str]]), [[Sleight of Hand]] ([[SRD:Dexterity|Dex]]), [[Sense Motive]] ([[SRD:Wisdom|Wis]]), [[Survival]] ([[SRD:Wisdom|Wis]]), [[Swim]] ([[SRD:Strength|Str]]), [[Tumble]] ([[SRD:Dexterity|Dex]])<br />
|}<br />
<br />
====Class Features====<br />
<br />
All of the following are class features of the battōsai. All battōsai abilities can only be used when the character is unarmored and carrying nothing more than a light load.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Weapon & Armor Proficiency}}:''' A battōsai is proficient with all simple and martial one-handed melee slashing weapons. He is not proficient with any form of armor or shields. <br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Battōjutsu}} ([[Ex]]):''' A battōsai has studied the art of battōjutsu extensively, allowing him to unleash tremendous attacks as he draws his blade. When making a normal attack or an [[SRD:Attack of Opportunity|attack of opportunity]] with his weapon sheathed, the battōsai can use battōjutsu to unsheathe his sword and strike in one lightning fast motion. A battōjutsu attack requires two hands to execute: one to hold the scabbard and one to hold the blade. As a result, a battōjutsu technique can only be performed with a one-handed [[SRD:Slashing Weapon|slashing]] weapon and cannot be executed when the user is holding anything else in their hands. Attacking in this way doubles the critical threat range of the battōsai’s attack. This ability stacks with any other effect that increases the battōsai’s threat range. For example, a battōsai that is using a [[SRD:Bastard Sword|bastard sword]] and has [[Improved Critical]] for that weapon, the bastard sword (which normally has a critical threat range of 19-20) now has a critical threat range of 15-20.<br />
<br />
Using battōjutsu is a [[SRD:Full-Round Actions|full-round action]] when the battōsai uses it during his turn. In addition, the battōsai may sheathe his weapon as a [[SRD:Free Actions|free action]] even after having drawn it in the same turn. This allows him to prepare another battōjutsu attack.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Tenken Abilities}}:''' If a battōsai has levels of [[Tenken (DnD Class)|tenken]], his battōsai levels stack with his tenken levels for the purposes of determining his AC bonus, unarmored speed bonus, and [[Tenken (DnD Class)|shukuchi]] attack bonus. He gains no other class features that he would normally gain from taking levels in tenken.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Lethality}} ([[Ex]]):''' The battōsai can accelerate his blade to god-like speed using his battōjutsu technique, tremendously increasing the damage of a single attack. At 2nd level, the battōsai’s critical multiplier with his weapon increases by 1 (x2 goes to x3, x3 to x5, and x4 to x7).<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Mortal Draw}} ([[Ex]]):''' At 3rd level, the battōsai has truly earned his title, for he is a master of battōjutsu able to strike quickly enough to kill in a single strike. He may now forgo his increased critical hit modifiers in favor of a death attack. When he uses battōjutsu, the battōsai may make a single normal attack roll. If he hits, he rolls damage normally, but the target must make a [[SRD:Saving Throw|Fortitude]] save (DC 5 + tenken's [[Dexterity]] score) or die instantly. If he succeeds on the saving throw, he merely takes the normal damage instead. This is a [[SRD:Death Effect|death effect]], and as a result does not function on undead or other creatures immune to such effects.<br />
<br />
Like the previous technique this death attack is a [[SRD:Full-Round Actions|full-round action]], and the only other action he can take during his turn is a 5-foot step.<br />
<br />
===Campaign Information===<br />
<br />
====Playing a Battōsai====<br />
<br />
'''Combat:''' Tenken, and by extension battōsai, are frontline fighters, especially once they have accumulated enough AC modifiers to hold their own against other martial combatants. Both of these classes also double as mage killers, closing the distance and hitting hard and fast before the puny little magicians can buff themselves six ways from Sunday. Others entering the class without levels in tenken will still have the same role, although they may not make mages cry quite so much.<br />
<br />
'''Advancement:''' [[Tenken (DnD Class)|Tenken]] is logical, since their abilities stack to a limited degree. [[Rogue]]s and other classes that offer sneak attack damage makes sense as well, if you're looking to perfect the one-hit knockout.<br />
<br />
'''Resources:''' Battōsai are more likely to kill each other then play buddy-buddy when two cross paths. The simple fact is, once they have become strong enough to take levels as a battōsai, most characters feel the need to test themselves against others of similar skill. This inherent lure of combat, the need to validate and reaffirm one's own skill; these are commonplace among practitioners of ultra-skilled disciplines, like battōsai.<br />
<br />
====Battōsai in the World====<br />
<br />
{{quote|''Swords are weapons. The way of swords is the way to kill. However you dress it up in righteousness, killing is your truth.''|4=Hiko Seijuro}}<br />
<br />
Battōsai are the undisputed masters of lightning-fast swordplay, and they have honed their craft through battle after battle, kill after kill. Wherever there is a good fight to be found, a battōsai will be drawn like a moth to a flame.<br />
<br />
'''NPC Reactions:''' NPC's react to a battōsai in much the same way they would react to someone of the battōsai's base class, but due to the level of acclaim most have reached by the time they are powerful enough to become battōsai they are often either well-respected or terribly feared.<br />
<br />
====Battōsai Lore====<br />
<br />
Characters with ranks in [[SRD:Knowledge Skill|Knowledge (local)]] can research battōsai to learn more about them. When a character makes a skill check, read or paraphrase the following, including information from lower DCs.<br />
<br />
{| class="d20" {{#vardefine: odd | 0}}<br />
|+ Knowledge (Local)<br />
! DC || class="left" | Result<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 11 || class="left" | Battōsai are warriors who can kill with a single attack.<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 16 || class="left" | A battōsai often takes levels as a [[Tenken (DnD Class)|tenken]], and are already too fast for the unaided eye to follow. <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 21 || class="left" | Their name comes from battōjutsu, the technique of drawing a blade from the sheath to increase its speed and attack strength.<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 26 || class="left" | Information on specific battōsai.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
====Battōsai in the Game====<br />
<br />
Battōsai are good party PC's; they are swordsmen who adventure to perfect their craft. While they may be more fixated on the betterment of their swordsmanship than on acquiring wealth or power, they still understand the value of having a team in order to support them, and most adventuring parties would welcome someone of the battōsai's rare talents. NPC battōsai fit the same mold, and make challenging opponents for those who cannot equal their amazing speed. <br />
<br />
'''Adaptation:''' In the deep, wide world of a campaign, battōsai could be anywhere, always on the hunt for worthy opponents to pit their skills against.<br />
<br />
'''Sample Encounter:''' <-DM placement for NPC of this class-><br />
<br />
''EL whatever:'' <-Encounter scenario and character info on sample NPC including stat block. The CR of the NPC is typically the same as the EL for the encounter-><br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
[[Category:DnD]]<br />
[[Category:3.5e]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Class]]<br />
[[Category:Prestige Class]]<br />
[[Category:Combat-Focused]]<br />
[[Category:Tenken]]</div>ThunderGod Cidhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Battosai_(3.5e_Prestige_Class)&diff=450887Battosai (3.5e Prestige Class)2010-01-11T21:54:21Z<p>ThunderGod Cid: Undo revision 450839 by Johnjoe (Talk) unauthorized edit</p>
<hr />
<div>{{DnD Prestige Class Infobox<br />
|img=Shishio makoto by mohomen.png<br />
|imgloc=top<br />
|imgsize=300px<br />
|imgcaption=<br />
|rating_power=<br />
|raters_power=<br />
|rating_wording=<br />
|raters_wording=<br />
|rating_formatting=<br />
|raters_formatting=<br />
|rating_flavor=<br />
|raters_flavor=<br />
|authors=[[User:Jota|Jota]] & [[User:ThunderGod Cid|Cid]]<br />
|datecreated=June 25, 2009<br />
|adopters=<br />
|dateadopted=<br />
|status=Done except for NPC <br />
|editing=Post suggestions on discussion<br />
|type=Combat-Focused<br />
|desc=A swordsman who practices battōjutsu, the art of drawing a sword from its sheath in order to increase its speed and power.<br />
|len=3<br />
|minlvl=12<br />
}}<br />
<br />
==Battōsai==<br />
<br />
{{quote<br />
|''His sword already had the speed to rival a god. But now, as the Battōsai, his sword surpasses god-like speed. It's like nothing you've ever seen before.''<br />
|orig=Tojiro, elf tenken<br />
}}<br />
<br />
Battōjutsu is the practice of drawing the sword from the sheath as the wielder attacks, greatly increasing the blade’s velocity and attack power. The battōsai practices this technique extensively until he is able to use it to deliver a single destructive attack.<br />
<br />
===Becoming a Battōsai===<br />
<br />
Battōsai are expert swordsmen who seek to find speed that exceeds mortal ken. For whatever reason, they have found battōjutsu to be the answer they were looking for. Armed with it, they are formidable warriors who can defeat enemies in a single strike.<br />
<br />
<!-- remove or add requirements as necessary --><br />
{| class="d20 dragon monstats" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"<br />
|+ style="font-size: larger; white-space: nowrap;" | Entry Requirements<br />
|-<br />
! Base Attack Bonus:<br />
| +4<br />
|-<br />
! Skills:<br />
| [[Sleight of Hand]] 6 ranks.<br />
|-<br />
! Feats:<br />
| [[Quick Draw]], [[Combat Reflexes]].<br />
|-<br />
! Abiltiy Scores:<br />
| [[Dexterity]] 16<br />
|-<br />
|} <br />
<br />
{| class="{{d20}}"<br />
|+ <div>{{#anc:Table: The Battōsai}}</div><br />
<p>Hit Die: d10</p><br />
|-<br />
! rowspan="2" | Level<br />
! rowspan="2" | [[BAB|Base<br/>Attack Bonus]]<br />
! colspan="3" | [[SRD:Saving Throw|Saving Throw]]s<br />
! rowspan="2" | Special<br />
|-<br />
! [[SRD:Saving Throw#Fortitude|Fort]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Reflex|Ref]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Will|Will]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 1st || +1 || +0 || +2 || +0<br />
| class="left" | [[#Battōjutsu|Battōjutsu]], [[#Tenken Abilities|Tenken Abilities]] <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 2nd || +2 || +0 || +3 || +0<br />
| class="left" | [[#Lethality|Lethality]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 3rd || +3 || +1 || +3 || +1<br />
| class="left" | [[#Mortal Draw|Mortal Draw]]<br />
|-<br />
| colspan="42" class="skill" |<br />
'''Class Skills (6 + [[Int]] modifier per level)'''<br/><br />
[[Balance]] ([[SRD:Dexterity|Dex]]), [[Climb]] ([[SRD:Strength|Str]]), [[Escape Artist]] ([[SRD:Dexterity|Dex]]), [[SRD:Heal Skill|Heal]] ([[SRD:Wisdom|Wis]]), [[Jump]] ([[SRD:Strength|Str]]), [[Sleight of Hand]] ([[SRD:Dexterity|Dex]]), [[Sense Motive]] ([[SRD:Wisdom|Wis]]), [[Survival]] ([[SRD:Wisdom|Wis]]), [[Swim]] ([[SRD:Strength|Str]]), [[Tumble]] ([[SRD:Dexterity|Dex]])<br />
|}<br />
<br />
====Class Features====<br />
<br />
All of the following are class features of the battōsai. All battōsai abilities can only be used when the character is unarmored and carrying nothing more than a light load.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Weapon & Armor Proficiency}}:''' A battōsai is proficient with all simple and martial one-handed melee slashing weapons. He is not proficient with any form of armor or shields. <br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Battōjutsu}} ([[Ex]]):''' A battōsai has studied the art of battōjutsu extensively, allowing him to unleash tremendous attacks as he draws his blade. When making a normal attack or an [[SRD:Attack of Opportunity|attack of opportunity]] with his weapon sheathed, the battōsai can use battōjutsu to unsheathe his sword and strike in one lightning fast motion. A battōjutsu attack requires two hands to execute: one to hold the scabbard and one to hold the blade. As a result, a battōjutsu technique can only be performed with a one-handed [[SRD:Slashing Weapon|slashing]] weapon and cannot be executed when the user is holding anything else in their hands. Attacking in this way doubles the critical threat range of the battōsai’s attack. This ability stacks with any other effect that increases the battōsai’s threat range. For example, a battōsai that is using a [[SRD:Bastard Sword|bastard sword]] and has [[Improved Critical]] for that weapon, the bastard sword (which normally has a critical threat range of 19-20) now has a critical threat range of 15-20.<br />
<br />
Using battōjutsu is a [[SRD:Full-Round Actions|full-round action]] when the battōsai uses it during his turn. In addition, the battōsai may sheathe his weapon as a [[SRD:Free Actions|free action]] even after having drawn it in the same turn. This allows him to prepare another battōjutsu attack.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Tenken Abilities}}:''' If a battōsai has levels of [[Tenken (DnD Class)|tenken]], his battōsai levels stack with his tenken levels for the purposes of determining his AC bonus, unarmored speed bonus, and [[Tenken (DnD Class)|shukuchi]] attack bonus. He gains no other class features that he would normally gain from taking levels in tenken.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Lethality}} ([[Ex]]):''' The battōsai can accelerate his blade to god-like speed using his battōjutsu technique, tremendously increasing the damage of a single attack. At 2nd level, the battōsai’s critical multiplier with his weapon increases by 1 (x2 goes to x3, x3 to x5, and x4 to x7).<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Mortal Draw}} ([[Ex]]):''' At 3rd level, the battōsai has truly earned his title, for he is a master of battōjutsu able to strike quickly enough to kill in a single strike. He may now forgo his increased critical hit modifiers in favor of a death attack. When he uses battōjutsu, the battōsai may make a single normal attack roll. If he hits, he rolls damage normally, but the target must make a [[SRD:Saving Throw|Fortitude]] save (DC 5 + tenken's [[Dexterity]] score) or die instantly. If he succeeds on the saving throw, he merely takes the normal damage instead. This is a [[SRD:Death Effect|death effect]], and as a result does not function on undead or other creatures immune to such effects.<br />
<br />
Like the previous technique this death attack is a [[SRD:Full-Round Actions|full-round action]], and the only other action he can take during his turn is a 5-foot step.<br />
<br />
===Campaign Information===<br />
<br />
====Playing a Battōsai====<br />
<br />
'''Combat:''' Tenken, and by extension battōsai, are frontline fighters, especially once they have accumulated enough AC modifiers to hold their own against other martial combatants. Both of these classes also double as mage killers, closing the distance and hitting hard and fast before the puny little magicians can buff themselves six ways from Sunday. Others entering the class without levels in tenken will still have the same role, although they may not make mages cry quite so much.<br />
<br />
'''Advancement:''' [[Tenken (DnD Class)|Tenken]] is logical, since their abilities stack to a limited degree. [[Rogue]]s and other classes that offer sneak attack damage makes sense as well, if you're looking to perfect the one-hit knockout.<br />
<br />
'''Resources:''' Battōsai are more likely to kill each other then play buddy-buddy when two cross paths. The simple fact is, once they have become strong enough to take levels as a battōsai, most characters feel the need to test themselves against others of similar skill. This inherent lure of combat, the need to validate and reaffirm one's own skill; these are commonplace among practitioners of ultra-skilled disciplines, like battōsai.<br />
<br />
====Battōsai in the World====<br />
<br />
{{quote|''Swords are weapons. The way of swords is the way to kill. However you dress it up in righteousness, killing is your truth.''|4=Hiko Seijuro}}<br />
<br />
Battōsai are the undisputed masters of lightning-fast swordplay, and they have honed their craft through battle after battle, kill after kill. Wherever there is a good fight to be found, a battōsai will be drawn like a moth to a flame.<br />
<br />
'''NPC Reactions:''' NPC's react to a battōsai in much the same way they would react to someone of the battōsai's base class, but due to the level of acclaim most have reached by the time they are powerful enough to become battōsai they are often either well-respected or terribly feared.<br />
<br />
====Battōsai Lore====<br />
<br />
Characters with ranks in [[SRD:Knowledge Skill|Knowledge (local)]] can research battōsai to learn more about them. When a character makes a skill check, read or paraphrase the following, including information from lower DCs.<br />
<br />
{| class="d20" {{#vardefine: odd | 0}}<br />
|+ Knowledge (Local)<br />
! DC || class="left" | Result<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 11 || class="left" | Battōsai are warriors who can kill with a single attack.<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 16 || class="left" | A battōsai often takes levels as a [[Tenken (DnD Class)|tenken]], and are already too fast for the unaided eye to follow. <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 21 || class="left" | Their name comes from battōjutsu, the technique of drawing a blade from the sheath to increase its speed and attack strength.<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
| 26 || class="left" | Information on specific battōsai.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
====Battōsai in the Game====<br />
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Battōsai are good party PC's; they are swordsmen who adventure to perfect their craft. While they may be more fixated on the betterment of their swordsmanship than on acquiring wealth or power, they still understand the value of having a team in order to support them, and most adventuring parties would welcome someone of the battōsai's rare talents. NPC battōsai fit the same mold, and make challenging opponents for those who cannot equal their amazing speed. <br />
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'''Adaptation:''' In the deep, wide world of a campaign, battōsai could be anywhere, always on the hunt for worthy opponents to pit their skills against.<br />
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'''Sample Encounter:''' <-DM placement for NPC of this class-><br />
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''EL whatever:'' <-Encounter scenario and character info on sample NPC including stat block. The CR of the NPC is typically the same as the EL for the encounter-><br />
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[[Category:DnD]]<br />
[[Category:3.5e]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Class]]<br />
[[Category:Prestige Class]]<br />
[[Category:Combat-Focused]]<br />
[[Category:Tenken]]</div>ThunderGod Cid