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Evoker (3.5e Class)

2012-10-20T05:23:17Z

Sleaker: Please don't tag Campaign-specific classes as incomplete/stubs. This is up to the campaign creator to determine.

{{DnD Base Class Infobox
|img=
|imgloc=
|imgsize=
|imgcaption=
|rating_power=
|raters_power=
|rating_wording=
|raters_wording=
|rating_formatting=
|raters_formatting=
|rating_flavor=
|raters_flavor=
|status=Complete
|editing=Please refrain from editing
|type=Strong Spellcasting
|desc=Much like the sorcerer, or wizard the Evoker is a spell-slinging class. Though it is designed for use in the [[Cora (DnD Campaign Setting)|World of Cora]]
}}
{{:Cora (DnD Campaign Setting)/Menu}}
==Evoker==

Evokers attune themselves to cora stones, gaining power from them and unleashing it upon the battlefield, or using it to benefit themselves. They are much like wizards or sorcerers. Because this class is designed for the E8 setting [[Cora (DnD Campaign Setting)|Cora]], I have only designed 8 levels of the class.

Evokers are best situated as the ranged magic user, sitting protected by the tank and melee damaging characters.

'''Abilities:''' [[Intelligence]] is the key casting statistic for an evoker and should be your primary focus. A high [[constitution]] will also help, as does a high [[dexterity]].

'''Races:''' No races are more inclined to be evokers than others. Evokers come equally from all races that are interested in the cora stones, and how they grant power to those who use them.

'''Alignment:''' Evokers can be of any alignment.

'''Starting Gold:''' 4d4×10 gp (100 gp).

'''[[SRD:Race Descriptions#Starting Age|Starting Age]]:''' As [[wizard]].

{| class="{{d20}}"
|+
<div>{{#anc:Table: The Evoker}}</div>
Hit Die: d6
|-
! rowspan="2" | Level
! rowspan="2" | [[BAB|Base Attack Bonus]]
! colspan="3" | [[SRD:Saving Throw|Saving Throw]]s
! rowspan="2" | Special
! rowspan="2" | [[UA:Spell Points|Spell Points/day]]
! rowspan="2" | Spells Known
! rowspan="2" | Maximum Spell Level Known
|-
! [[SRD:Saving Throw#Fortitude|Fort]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Reflex|Ref]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Will|Will]]
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
|1st|| class="left" | +0 || +0 || +0 || +2
| class="left" | [[#Stone Attunement|Stone Attunement (first)]] || 2 || 3 || 1st
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
|2nd|| class="left" | +1 || +0 || +0 || +3
| class="left" | || 6 || 5 || 1st
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
|3rd|| class="left" | +1 || +1 || +1 || +3
| class="left" | [[#Bonus Feat|Bonus Feat]] || 11 || 7 || 2nd
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
|4th||class="left" | +2 || +1 || +1 || +4
| class="left" | || 17 || 9 || 2nd
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
|5th||class="left" | +2 || +1 || +1 || +4
| class="left" | [[#Stone Attunement|Stone Attunement (second)]] || 25 || 11 || 3rd
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
|6th||class="left" | +3 || +2 || +2 || +5
| class="left" | || 35 || 13 || 3rd
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
|7th||class="left" | +3 || +2 || +2 || +5
| class="left" | [[#Bonus Feat|Bonus Feat]] || 46 || 15 || 4th
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
|8th||class="left" | +4 || +2 || +2 || +6
| class="left" | [[#Stone Attunement|Stone Attunement (third)]] || 58 || 17 || 4th
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| colspan="11" class="skill" |
'''Class Skills (2 + [[SRD:Intelligence|Int]] modifier per level, ×4 at 1st level)''' 
[[Appraise]] ([[Intelligence|Int]]), [[Concentration]] ([[Constitution|Con]]), [[Craft]] ([[Intelligence|Int]]), [[Decipher Script]] ([[Intelligence|Int]]), [[Knowledge]] (any, each taken individually) ([[Intelligence|Int]]), [[Profession]] ([[Wisdom|Wis]]), [[Spellcraft]] ([[Intelligence|Int]]).
|}

====Class Features====

All of the following are class features of the Evoker.

'''Weapon and Armor Proficiency:''' Evokers are proficient with light armor, [[UA:Weapon_Group_(Druid_Weapons)|druid weapons]], and [[UA:Weapon_Group_(Crossbows)|crossbows]].

'''{{#anc:Spells}}:''' An evoker casts spells which are drawn from the evoker spell list below. He can cast any spell he knows by spending an amount of spell points, similar to a [[psion]]. To learn or cast a spell, an Evoker must have an [[intelligence]] score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against an evoker’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the evoker’s [[Intelligence]] modifier. An evoker begins play knowing all cantrips, and he is able to cast 3 + [[Intelligence]] modifier cantrips per day. An evoker begins knowing 3, 1st level spells and gains 2 new spells known at each level after this chosen from the spells he is able to cast.

Evokers choose their spells from the following list:

{| style="text-align:left;" class="{{d20}}"
!Level !! Spells
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| style="text-align: center;" | 0th || ''[[arcane mark]], [[SRD:Create Water|create water]], [[detect magic]], [[mending]], [[message]], [[prestidigitation]], [[read magic]], [[guidance]], [[SRD:Resistance|resistance]], [[virtue]].''
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| style="text-align: center;" | 1st || ''[[alarm]], [[SRD:Bane|bane]], [[bless]], [[bless water]], [[command]], [[comprehend languages]], [[SRD:Curse Water|curse water]], [[SRD:Deathwatch|deathwatch]], [[detect secret doors]], [[disguise self]], [[divine favor]], [[doom]], [[SRD:Erase|erase]], [[feather fall]], [[floating disk]], [[SRD:Goodberry|goodberry]], [[grease]], [[hold portal]], [[hypnotism]], [[identify]], [[magic weapon]], [[SRD:Magic Stone|magic stone]], [[shield of faith]], [[sleep]], [[speak with animals]]''
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| style="text-align: center;" | 2nd || ''[[aid]], [[animal messenger]], [[SRD:Animal Trance|animal trance]], [[augury]], [[bear's endurance]], [[blindness/deafness]], [[blur]], [[bull's strength]], [[calm emotions]], [[cat's grace]], [[chill metal]], [[darkvision]], [[daze monster]], [[desecrate]], [[detect thoughts]], [[eagle's splendor]], [[enthrall]], [[SRD:Find Traps|find traps]], [[fog cloud]], [[SRD:Fox's Cunning|fox's cunning]], [[glitterdust]], [[heat metal]], [[knock]], [[lesser restoration]], [[levitate]], [[SRD:Make Whole|make whole]], [[SRD:Minor Image|minor image]], [[mirror image]], [[SRD:Owl's Wisdom|owl's wisdom]], [[resist energy]], [[rope trick]], [[see invisibility]], [[shatter]], [[silence]], [[SRD:Soften Earth and Stone|soften earth and stone]], [[spider climb]], [[SRD:Tree Shape|tree shape]], [[SRD:Warp Wood|warp wood]], [[SRD:Wood Shape|wood shape]]''
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| style="text-align: center" | 3rd || ''[[animate dead]], [[bestow curse]], [[blink]], [[deep slumber]], [[dispel magic]], [[displacement]], [[fly]], [[SRD:Gentle Repose|gentle repose]], [[haste]], [[SRD:Halt Undead|halt undead]], [[heroism]], [[illusory script]], [[SRD:Invisibility Purge|invisibility purge]], [[keen edge]], [[neutralize poison]], [[SRD:Plant Growth|plant growth]], [[prayer]], [[protection from energy]], [[SRD:Quench|quench]], [[remove blindness/deafness]], [[shrink item]], [[slow]], [[SRD:Speak with Plants|speak with plants]], [[SRD:Speak with Dead|speak with dead]], [[stone shape]], [[suggestion]], [[tiny hut]], [[tongues]], [[water breathing]], [[SRD:Water Walk|water walk]]''
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| style="text-align: center" | 4th || ''[[bestow curse]], [[charm monster]], [[confusion]], [[contagion]], [[SRD:Crushing Despair|crushing despair]], [[dimensional anchor]], [[dispel magic]], [[fear]], [[fire shield]], [[flame strike]], [[freedom of movement]], [[SRD:Illusory Wall|illusory wall]], [[SRD:Inflict Critical Wounds|inflict critical wounds]], [[neutralize poison]], [[phantasmal killer]], [[poison]], [[rainbow pattern]], [[remove curse]], [[restoration]], [[SRD:Shadow Conjuration|shadow conjuration]], [[shout]], [[solid fog]], [[wall of fire]], [[wall of ice]]''
|}

'''{{#anc:Stone Attunement}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' You gain the ability to attune to a Cora Stone, this acts as a focus for all of the spells you cast, and gives you one extra spell per day of each level of spell you can cast. (Ex. A 3rd level Evoker attuned to a Red Stone would get 1 extra 0th, 1st and 2nd level spells per day). Attuning to a Cora stone takes 2 hours of meditation without interruption, once you are attuned to a stone you stay attuned to it until it is taken more than 1 mile from your current location, or you go without it for 8 hours. You may remove the attunement from a cora stone by meditating for 1 hour. You may never attune to a stone that someone is already attuned to. Each color of stone grants additional spells known, a passive ability, and a +1 bonus to caster level when casting a spell of the stones school or effect.

{| class="{{d20}}"
|-
! rowspan="2" | Stone Color || rowspan="2" | School or Effect || rowspan="2" | Ability || colspan="5" | Bonus Spells Known
|-
! 0 || 1st || 2nd || 3rd || 4th
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| style="text-align:left;" | Black || [[Necromancy]] || style="text-align:left;" | +4 saves vs. Necromancy spells or effects
| [[SRD:Touch of Fatigue|Touch of Fatigue]] || [[SRD:Ray of Enfeeblement|Ray of Enfeeblement]] || [[SRD:Ghoul Touch|Ghoul Touch]] || [[SRD:Vampiric Touch|Vampiric Touch]] || [[Enervation]]
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| style="text-align:left;" | Blue || [[Electricity Effect|Electricity]] || style="text-align:left;" | +2 bonus to [[reflex]] saves
| Electric JoltSpC || [[SRD:Shocking Grasp|Shocking Grasp]] || Electric LoopSpC || [[SRD:Lightning Bolt|Lightning Bolt]] || Orb of ElectricitySpC
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| style="text-align:left;" | Brown || [[Acid Effect|Acid]] || style="text-align:left;" | +4 to saves to resist poisons & diseases
| [[SRD:Acid Splash|Acid Splash]] || Orb of Acid, LesserSpC || [[SRD:Acid Arrow|Acid Arrow]] || Acid BreathSpC || Orb of AcidSpC
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| style="text-align:left;" | Clear || [[Sonic Effect|Sonic]] || style="text-align:left;" | +3 bonus to [[Listen]] and [[SRD:Move Silently|Move Silently]] checks
| Silent PortalSpC || Orb of Sound, LesserSpC || [[SRD:Shatter|Shatter]] || ShatterfloorSpC || Orb of SoundSpC
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| style="text-align:left;" | Gray || [[Illusion]] || style="text-align:left;" | +2 bonus to [[Bluff]], [[Diplomacy]], and [[Intimidate]] checks
| [[SRD:Ghost Sound|Ghost Sound]] || [[SRD:Color Spray|Color Spray]] || [[SRD:Invisibility|Invisibility]] || [[SRD:Invisibility Sphere|Invisibility Sphere]] || [[SRD:Greater Invisibility|Greater Invisibility]]
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| style="text-align:left;" | Green || [[Transmutation]] || style="text-align:left;" | +1 [[natural armor]] bonus to AC
| [[SRD:Mage Hand|Mage Hand]] || [[SRD:Enlarge Person|Enlarge Person]] || [[Barkskin]] || [[SRD:Gaseous Form|Gaseous Form]] || Attune Planar FormSpC
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| style="text-align:left;" | Red || [[Fire Effect|Fire]] || style="text-align:left;" | +2 bonus to initiative checks.
| [[SRD:Light|Light]] || [[Burning Hands]] || [[SRD:Scorching Ray|Scorching Ray]] || [[Fireball]] || Blast of FlameSpC
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| style="text-align:left;" | Yellow || [[SRD:Healing Subschool|Healing]] || style="text-align:left;" | Your healing spells are always cast as if [[Empower Spell|empowered]]
| [[SRD:Cure Minor Wounds|Cure Minor Wounds]] || [[Cure Light Wounds]] || [[Cure Moderate Wounds]] || [[SRD:Cure Serious Wounds|Cure Serious Wounds]] || [[SRD:Cure Critical Wounds|Cure Critical Wounds]]
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| style="text-align:left;" | White || [[Cold Effect|Cold]] || style="text-align:left;" | Water-breathing
| [[SRD:Ray of Frost|Ray of Frost]] || Orb of Cold, LesserSpC || Frost BreathSpC || HypothermiaSpC || [[SRD:Ice Storm|Ice Storm]]
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| colspan="8" style="text-align:left;" | SpC: Spell Compendium
|}

'''{{#anc:Bonus Feat}}:''' At 3rd, and 7th level you gain a bonus feat, you may gain any feat that you meet the prerequisites for.

'''{{#anc:Stone Attunement (second)}}:''' You gain the ability to attune to a second cora stone, the second stone must be a different color than your first attunement. You gain all the same benefits of attuning to the second stone as you did your first.

====Dakin Evoker Starting Package====

'''Weapons:''' [[SRD:Light_Crossbow|Light Crossbow]] (1d6, crit x3, 2lbs, two-handed, piercing).

'''Skill Selection:''' Pick a number of skills equal to 2 + [[Int]] modifier.

{| class="{{d20}}"
|-
! class="left" | Skill || Ranks || Ability || Armor Check Penalty
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| class="left" | [[Appraise]] || 4 || [[Intelligence|Int]] ||
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| class="left" | [[Concentration]] || 4 || [[Constitution|Con]] ||
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| class="left" | [[Craft]] || 4 || [[Intelligence|Int]] ||
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| class="left" | [[Knowledge]] (the planes) || 4 || [[Intelligence|Int]] ||
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| class="left" | [[Knowledge]] (arcane) || 4 || [[Intelligence|Int]] ||
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| class="left" | [[Spellcraft]] || 4 || [[Intelligence|Int]] ||
|}

'''Feat:''' [[Combat Casting]].

'''Gear:''' Backpack with waterskin, one day's trail rations, bedroll, sack, flint and steel. Hooded Lantern, 4 pints of oil, 10 crossbow bolts, Yellow Cora Stone.

'''Gold:''' 5d4 gold.

====Playing an Evoker====

'''Religion:''' Evokers are more likely to worship a deity than most of the other classes, because of their use of the cora stones they understand how magic works and are more likely to be persuaded to join a church or order that promotes learning, and understanding. Evokers are open to which deity they worship and are spread equally among the different churches in cora.

'''Combat:''' You are best suited to approach combat like a wizard or sorcerer, staying away from melee threats and using spells to control or damage foes. Often you will fill the role of the party healer, so taking healing spells is always a good idea.

----
{{DnD Base Classes Breadcrumb}} 
{{Cora Footer}}
[[Category:Class]]
[[Category:Base Class]]
[[Category:Strong Spellcasting]]
[[Category:Spontaneous Spellcasting]]

Evoker (3.5e Class)

2012-10-20T05:20:48Z

Sleaker: epic section has no bearing on classes designed for E8

{{stub|"in the world", "lore", and "in the game" (and example NPC).}}
{{DnD Base Class Infobox
|img=
|imgloc=
|imgsize=
|imgcaption=
|rating_power=
|raters_power=
|rating_wording=
|raters_wording=
|rating_formatting=
|raters_formatting=
|rating_flavor=
|raters_flavor=
|status=Complete
|editing=Please refrain from editing
|type=Strong Spellcasting
|desc=Much like the sorcerer, or wizard the Evoker is a spell-slinging class. Though it is designed for use in the [[Cora (DnD Campaign Setting)|World of Cora]]
}}
{{:Cora (DnD Campaign Setting)/Menu}}
==Evoker==

Evokers attune themselves to cora stones, gaining power from them and unleashing it upon the battlefield, or using it to benefit themselves. They are much like wizards or sorcerers. Because this class is designed for the E8 setting [[Cora (DnD Campaign Setting)|Cora]], I have only designed 8 levels of the class.

Evokers are best situated as the ranged magic user, sitting protected by the tank and melee damaging characters.

'''Abilities:''' [[Intelligence]] is the key casting statistic for an evoker and should be your primary focus. A high [[constitution]] will also help, as does a high [[dexterity]].

'''Races:''' No races are more inclined to be evokers than others. Evokers come equally from all races that are interested in the cora stones, and how they grant power to those who use them.

'''Alignment:''' Evokers can be of any alignment.

'''Starting Gold:''' 4d4×10 gp (100 gp).

'''[[SRD:Race Descriptions#Starting Age|Starting Age]]:''' As [[wizard]].

{| class="{{d20}}"
|+
<div>{{#anc:Table: The Evoker}}</div>
Hit Die: d6
|-
! rowspan="2" | Level
! rowspan="2" | [[BAB|Base Attack Bonus]]
! colspan="3" | [[SRD:Saving Throw|Saving Throw]]s
! rowspan="2" | Special
! rowspan="2" | [[UA:Spell Points|Spell Points/day]]
! rowspan="2" | Spells Known
! rowspan="2" | Maximum Spell Level Known
|-
! [[SRD:Saving Throw#Fortitude|Fort]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Reflex|Ref]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Will|Will]]
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
|1st|| class="left" | +0 || +0 || +0 || +2
| class="left" | [[#Stone Attunement|Stone Attunement (first)]] || 2 || 3 || 1st
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
|2nd|| class="left" | +1 || +0 || +0 || +3
| class="left" | || 6 || 5 || 1st
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
|3rd|| class="left" | +1 || +1 || +1 || +3
| class="left" | [[#Bonus Feat|Bonus Feat]] || 11 || 7 || 2nd
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
|4th||class="left" | +2 || +1 || +1 || +4
| class="left" | || 17 || 9 || 2nd
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
|5th||class="left" | +2 || +1 || +1 || +4
| class="left" | [[#Stone Attunement|Stone Attunement (second)]] || 25 || 11 || 3rd
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
|6th||class="left" | +3 || +2 || +2 || +5
| class="left" | || 35 || 13 || 3rd
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
|7th||class="left" | +3 || +2 || +2 || +5
| class="left" | [[#Bonus Feat|Bonus Feat]] || 46 || 15 || 4th
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
|8th||class="left" | +4 || +2 || +2 || +6
| class="left" | [[#Stone Attunement|Stone Attunement (third)]] || 58 || 17 || 4th
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| colspan="11" class="skill" |
'''Class Skills (2 + [[SRD:Intelligence|Int]] modifier per level, ×4 at 1st level)''' 
[[Appraise]] ([[Intelligence|Int]]), [[Concentration]] ([[Constitution|Con]]), [[Craft]] ([[Intelligence|Int]]), [[Decipher Script]] ([[Intelligence|Int]]), [[Knowledge]] (any, each taken individually) ([[Intelligence|Int]]), [[Profession]] ([[Wisdom|Wis]]), [[Spellcraft]] ([[Intelligence|Int]]).
|}

====Class Features====

All of the following are class features of the Evoker.

'''Weapon and Armor Proficiency:''' Evokers are proficient with light armor, [[UA:Weapon_Group_(Druid_Weapons)|druid weapons]], and [[UA:Weapon_Group_(Crossbows)|crossbows]].

'''{{#anc:Spells}}:''' An evoker casts spells which are drawn from the evoker spell list below. He can cast any spell he knows by spending an amount of spell points, similar to a [[psion]]. To learn or cast a spell, an Evoker must have an [[intelligence]] score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against an evoker’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the evoker’s [[Intelligence]] modifier. An evoker begins play knowing all cantrips, and he is able to cast 3 + [[Intelligence]] modifier cantrips per day. An evoker begins knowing 3, 1st level spells and gains 2 new spells known at each level after this chosen from the spells he is able to cast.

Evokers choose their spells from the following list:

{| style="text-align:left;" class="{{d20}}"
!Level !! Spells
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| style="text-align: center;" | 0th || ''[[arcane mark]], [[SRD:Create Water|create water]], [[detect magic]], [[mending]], [[message]], [[prestidigitation]], [[read magic]], [[guidance]], [[SRD:Resistance|resistance]], [[virtue]].''
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| style="text-align: center;" | 1st || ''[[alarm]], [[SRD:Bane|bane]], [[bless]], [[bless water]], [[command]], [[comprehend languages]], [[SRD:Curse Water|curse water]], [[SRD:Deathwatch|deathwatch]], [[detect secret doors]], [[disguise self]], [[divine favor]], [[doom]], [[SRD:Erase|erase]], [[feather fall]], [[floating disk]], [[SRD:Goodberry|goodberry]], [[grease]], [[hold portal]], [[hypnotism]], [[identify]], [[magic weapon]], [[SRD:Magic Stone|magic stone]], [[shield of faith]], [[sleep]], [[speak with animals]]''
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| style="text-align: center;" | 2nd || ''[[aid]], [[animal messenger]], [[SRD:Animal Trance|animal trance]], [[augury]], [[bear's endurance]], [[blindness/deafness]], [[blur]], [[bull's strength]], [[calm emotions]], [[cat's grace]], [[chill metal]], [[darkvision]], [[daze monster]], [[desecrate]], [[detect thoughts]], [[eagle's splendor]], [[enthrall]], [[SRD:Find Traps|find traps]], [[fog cloud]], [[SRD:Fox's Cunning|fox's cunning]], [[glitterdust]], [[heat metal]], [[knock]], [[lesser restoration]], [[levitate]], [[SRD:Make Whole|make whole]], [[SRD:Minor Image|minor image]], [[mirror image]], [[SRD:Owl's Wisdom|owl's wisdom]], [[resist energy]], [[rope trick]], [[see invisibility]], [[shatter]], [[silence]], [[SRD:Soften Earth and Stone|soften earth and stone]], [[spider climb]], [[SRD:Tree Shape|tree shape]], [[SRD:Warp Wood|warp wood]], [[SRD:Wood Shape|wood shape]]''
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| style="text-align: center" | 3rd || ''[[animate dead]], [[bestow curse]], [[blink]], [[deep slumber]], [[dispel magic]], [[displacement]], [[fly]], [[SRD:Gentle Repose|gentle repose]], [[haste]], [[SRD:Halt Undead|halt undead]], [[heroism]], [[illusory script]], [[SRD:Invisibility Purge|invisibility purge]], [[keen edge]], [[neutralize poison]], [[SRD:Plant Growth|plant growth]], [[prayer]], [[protection from energy]], [[SRD:Quench|quench]], [[remove blindness/deafness]], [[shrink item]], [[slow]], [[SRD:Speak with Plants|speak with plants]], [[SRD:Speak with Dead|speak with dead]], [[stone shape]], [[suggestion]], [[tiny hut]], [[tongues]], [[water breathing]], [[SRD:Water Walk|water walk]]''
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| style="text-align: center" | 4th || ''[[bestow curse]], [[charm monster]], [[confusion]], [[contagion]], [[SRD:Crushing Despair|crushing despair]], [[dimensional anchor]], [[dispel magic]], [[fear]], [[fire shield]], [[flame strike]], [[freedom of movement]], [[SRD:Illusory Wall|illusory wall]], [[SRD:Inflict Critical Wounds|inflict critical wounds]], [[neutralize poison]], [[phantasmal killer]], [[poison]], [[rainbow pattern]], [[remove curse]], [[restoration]], [[SRD:Shadow Conjuration|shadow conjuration]], [[shout]], [[solid fog]], [[wall of fire]], [[wall of ice]]''
|}

'''{{#anc:Stone Attunement}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' You gain the ability to attune to a Cora Stone, this acts as a focus for all of the spells you cast, and gives you one extra spell per day of each level of spell you can cast. (Ex. A 3rd level Evoker attuned to a Red Stone would get 1 extra 0th, 1st and 2nd level spells per day). Attuning to a Cora stone takes 2 hours of meditation without interruption, once you are attuned to a stone you stay attuned to it until it is taken more than 1 mile from your current location, or you go without it for 8 hours. You may remove the attunement from a cora stone by meditating for 1 hour. You may never attune to a stone that someone is already attuned to. Each color of stone grants additional spells known, a passive ability, and a +1 bonus to caster level when casting a spell of the stones school or effect.

{| class="{{d20}}"
|-
! rowspan="2" | Stone Color || rowspan="2" | School or Effect || rowspan="2" | Ability || colspan="5" | Bonus Spells Known
|-
! 0 || 1st || 2nd || 3rd || 4th
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| style="text-align:left;" | Black || [[Necromancy]] || style="text-align:left;" | +4 saves vs. Necromancy spells or effects
| [[SRD:Touch of Fatigue|Touch of Fatigue]] || [[SRD:Ray of Enfeeblement|Ray of Enfeeblement]] || [[SRD:Ghoul Touch|Ghoul Touch]] || [[SRD:Vampiric Touch|Vampiric Touch]] || [[Enervation]]
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| style="text-align:left;" | Blue || [[Electricity Effect|Electricity]] || style="text-align:left;" | +2 bonus to [[reflex]] saves
| Electric JoltSpC || [[SRD:Shocking Grasp|Shocking Grasp]] || Electric LoopSpC || [[SRD:Lightning Bolt|Lightning Bolt]] || Orb of ElectricitySpC
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| style="text-align:left;" | Brown || [[Acid Effect|Acid]] || style="text-align:left;" | +4 to saves to resist poisons & diseases
| [[SRD:Acid Splash|Acid Splash]] || Orb of Acid, LesserSpC || [[SRD:Acid Arrow|Acid Arrow]] || Acid BreathSpC || Orb of AcidSpC
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| style="text-align:left;" | Clear || [[Sonic Effect|Sonic]] || style="text-align:left;" | +3 bonus to [[Listen]] and [[SRD:Move Silently|Move Silently]] checks
| Silent PortalSpC || Orb of Sound, LesserSpC || [[SRD:Shatter|Shatter]] || ShatterfloorSpC || Orb of SoundSpC
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| style="text-align:left;" | Gray || [[Illusion]] || style="text-align:left;" | +2 bonus to [[Bluff]], [[Diplomacy]], and [[Intimidate]] checks
| [[SRD:Ghost Sound|Ghost Sound]] || [[SRD:Color Spray|Color Spray]] || [[SRD:Invisibility|Invisibility]] || [[SRD:Invisibility Sphere|Invisibility Sphere]] || [[SRD:Greater Invisibility|Greater Invisibility]]
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| style="text-align:left;" | Green || [[Transmutation]] || style="text-align:left;" | +1 [[natural armor]] bonus to AC
| [[SRD:Mage Hand|Mage Hand]] || [[SRD:Enlarge Person|Enlarge Person]] || [[Barkskin]] || [[SRD:Gaseous Form|Gaseous Form]] || Attune Planar FormSpC
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| style="text-align:left;" | Red || [[Fire Effect|Fire]] || style="text-align:left;" | +2 bonus to initiative checks.
| [[SRD:Light|Light]] || [[Burning Hands]] || [[SRD:Scorching Ray|Scorching Ray]] || [[Fireball]] || Blast of FlameSpC
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| style="text-align:left;" | Yellow || [[SRD:Healing Subschool|Healing]] || style="text-align:left;" | Your healing spells are always cast as if [[Empower Spell|empowered]]
| [[SRD:Cure Minor Wounds|Cure Minor Wounds]] || [[Cure Light Wounds]] || [[Cure Moderate Wounds]] || [[SRD:Cure Serious Wounds|Cure Serious Wounds]] || [[SRD:Cure Critical Wounds|Cure Critical Wounds]]
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| style="text-align:left;" | White || [[Cold Effect|Cold]] || style="text-align:left;" | Water-breathing
| [[SRD:Ray of Frost|Ray of Frost]] || Orb of Cold, LesserSpC || Frost BreathSpC || HypothermiaSpC || [[SRD:Ice Storm|Ice Storm]]
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| colspan="8" style="text-align:left;" | SpC: Spell Compendium
|}

'''{{#anc:Bonus Feat}}:''' At 3rd, and 7th level you gain a bonus feat, you may gain any feat that you meet the prerequisites for.

'''{{#anc:Stone Attunement (second)}}:''' You gain the ability to attune to a second cora stone, the second stone must be a different color than your first attunement. You gain all the same benefits of attuning to the second stone as you did your first.

====Dakin Evoker Starting Package====

'''Weapons:''' [[SRD:Light_Crossbow|Light Crossbow]] (1d6, crit x3, 2lbs, two-handed, piercing).

'''Skill Selection:''' Pick a number of skills equal to 2 + [[Int]] modifier.

{| class="{{d20}}"
|-
! class="left" | Skill || Ranks || Ability || Armor Check Penalty
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| class="left" | [[Appraise]] || 4 || [[Intelligence|Int]] ||
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| class="left" | [[Concentration]] || 4 || [[Constitution|Con]] ||
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| class="left" | [[Craft]] || 4 || [[Intelligence|Int]] ||
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| class="left" | [[Knowledge]] (the planes) || 4 || [[Intelligence|Int]] ||
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| class="left" | [[Knowledge]] (arcane) || 4 || [[Intelligence|Int]] ||
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| class="left" | [[Spellcraft]] || 4 || [[Intelligence|Int]] ||
|}

'''Feat:''' [[Combat Casting]].

'''Gear:''' Backpack with waterskin, one day's trail rations, bedroll, sack, flint and steel. Hooded Lantern, 4 pints of oil, 10 crossbow bolts, Yellow Cora Stone.

'''Gold:''' 5d4 gold.

====Playing an Evoker====

'''Religion:''' Evokers are more likely to worship a deity than most of the other classes, because of their use of the cora stones they understand how magic works and are more likely to be persuaded to join a church or order that promotes learning, and understanding. Evokers are open to which deity they worship and are spread equally among the different churches in cora.

'''Combat:''' You are best suited to approach combat like a wizard or sorcerer, staying away from melee threats and using spells to control or damage foes. Often you will fill the role of the party healer, so taking healing spells is always a good idea.

----
{{DnD Base Classes Breadcrumb}} 
{{Cora Footer}}
[[Category:Class]]
[[Category:Base Class]]
[[Category:Strong Spellcasting]]
[[Category:Spontaneous Spellcasting]]

User talk:Sleaker

2012-10-20T05:15:38Z

Sleaker:

Talk:3.5e Optimized Character Builds

2012-10-20T05:14:39Z

Sleaker:

== Half-Optimizations ==

I believe it would be a good idea to create a seperate branch of this page: Half-Optimizations. This would be any cool tricks that are no doubt useful, but too small to warrant their own Builds. --[[User:Sir Milo Teabag|Sir Milo Teabag]] 17:08, 16 January 2008 (MST)

:Added. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 14:19, 18 January 2008 (MST)

:: it would be nice if this was added to the omptimized character build template. i didnt know how to make one until i mimicked one of them. --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 07:10, 21 February 2009 (MST)

== Class Guides ==

Wouldn't it also be a good idea to add a section for class guides (like the Artificer's Player's Guide?)? This would open a whole new field for those who know how to play a particular class very well and would like to teach others to do the same. -- [[User:OptimizationFanatic|OptimizationFanatic]] 20:36, 23 January 2008 (MST)

:Added. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 23:01, 23 January 2008 (MST)

::Indeed, some of the Half-Optimizations might do better under here... --[[User:Sir Milo Teabag|Sir Milo Teabag]] 06:33, 24 January 2008 (MST)

:::Perhaps. -- [[User:OptimizationFanatic|OptimizationFanatic]] 21:55, 24 January 2008 (MST)

::::And the [[Wizards' Handbook (DnD Optimized Character Build)|Wizards' Handbook]] is complete, making it the longest article posted in this section. -- [[User:OptimizationFanatic|OptimizationFanatic]] 17:05, 25 January 2008 (MST)

== Gestalt ==

Just a question. I have made a gestalt build on another site and wanted to post it here. I just wanted to make sure that gestalt builds were allowed. FYI, the build was for the Magnificint Monsters challenge on Giant In the Playground.--[[User:Ghostie1337|Ghostie1337]] 22:41, 4 April 2008 (MDT)

:It certainly should be. Please preface your build with Gestalt or something, though ''':)''' -- [[User:OptimizationFanatic|OptimizationFanatic]] 20:09, 15 April 2008 (MDT)

::We now actually have a Gestalt Optimization, thanks to [[User:Ganre|Yours Truly]], and i was wondering if they deserved their own category, to separate them from the standard builds. What do the other optimizers/Admins think? --[[User:Ganre|Ganre]] 00:53, 5 May 2008 (MDT)

:::Why not, [[:Category:Gestalt]] it is. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 23:47, 5 May 2008 (MDT)

== Monk ==

A small optimisation that isn't enough to give it its own page. Uses "Ultimate Prestige Classes 1", "Complete Warrior", "The Book of Exalted Deeds", the eberron book and the srd. It is gasalt and it has classes as follows... 12 monk/5 fighter/5 war shaper/2 student of the dragon.

It is linked here.. [http://www.playrpgonline.net/3eprofiler/view.php?id=2790|Uber] --[[User:Sabre070|Sabre070]] 07:36, 13 October 2008 (MDT)

:Removed. --[[User:Sabre070|Sabre070]] 22:10, 2 December 2008 (MST)

A ton of the monk builds on here take levels of Ranger to get Two-Weapon Fighting when it [[Talk:Champion_of_the_Forest_%283.5e_Optimized_Character_Build%29#Unarmed_Off-hand|it doesn't work that way]]. Is there a tag that should be attached to these and similar builds that don't conform to the rules? --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 07:55, 21 July 2009 (MDT)

== Where's the optimization? ==

I've been looking through a number of these builds, and most of them seem bereft of any optimization, built either for flavor or a mishmash of things that don't work towards a specific goal rather than optimizing a character. Perhaps some pruning might be a wise choice? {{unsigned|76.169.236.139}}

:We are looking at implementing a new (easy to use) rating system that would apply to all articles on the wiki. That will probably solve the problem here. --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 07:44, 25 June 2009 (MDT)

::Any idea when this goes into effect? [[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 02:07, 6 July 2009 (MDT)

:::Not sure yet. We first need to set up a vote, wait for the results (which will almost certainly go through), and then implement it. Give it another week or so at the very least. --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 08:10, 6 July 2009 (MDT)

::::I believe we should avoid using a rating system, however, I do have a suggestion. How about a template that a person can put at the top of a page that they thin is suboptimal, something that says "the optimization of this build is currently being questioned. for more information see the talk page." or such. Then, that person can list their issues with the build in the talk page. If the author agrees and alters, then remove the template. If not, and for valid reasons (i.e. "this optimization was built with only certain books" etc.) then the person who had the initial complain can make a variant page building it the way they saw fit. Then, finally, the pages could share a link to each other at the top (and any other similar pages). This avoids the issues that anything called "rating" typically gets, and will also provide positive feedback for authors of builds.  [[User:Hooper|''' Hooper ''']][[User talk:Hooper|  talk  ]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|  contribs  ]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|  email  ]] 15:17, 2 September 2009 (MDT)

== New category or subtype ==

Many of these contain things that aren't allowed in many games (Savage Species (3.0) material, Leadership, Hulking Hurlers, Divine Metamagic, and so on). Could we make a category for things that might be considered "cheesy"? Or would that be too pretentious? --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 02:51, 14 July 2009 (MDT)

== Similar Builds ==

A few of the builds presented here are quite similar to one-another, differing by only a class level or three. How would one go about merging them, or presenting one as the variant of another? --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 03:17, 14 July 2009 (MDT)

:I'm not usre if I would go that far, but we could certainly link similar builds, that would be neat. --[[User:Ganre|Ganre]] 22:30, 16 July 2009 (MDT)

== Mysterious "d" ==

Anyone else notice all the optimizations have a "d" after them now? --[[User:Ganre|Ganre]] 05:26, 26 December 2009 (MST)

:Yeah. When I made this page use SMW (the un-commented out information on the page) an extra d (Optimized Character Buil'''d''') showed up. Who knows. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 21:52, 27 December 2009 (MST)

== Page works strange ==
Tried IE, Mozilla and Opera, from my, and from some other computer, nad page keep looking like [http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/3484/temprs.png this] in this section
This wasn't case at the begining, it worked just fine few weaks ago. --[[User:Leviathan616|Leviathan616]] 08:56, 17 July 2010 (UTC)Leviathan616

:This is another side effect of when GD moved the wiki. As far as I know this, and a few other errors, are still plaguing the wiki, but he's working on a fix. It's not you, it's the wiki. It should be working again "soon", he said. --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 17:57, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

== Tough Love ==
I think this section needs some. We need to categorize it better, maybe make it so all the builds don't show up on one page, or start removing some of this stuff. It looks really bad, and the d at the end of all the titles still makes me sad. --[[User:Ganre|Ganre]] 14:50, 13 February 2012 (MST)
: It's also smattered with 4e builds now which have no place in the 3.5e sections... - [[User:Sleaker|Sleaker]] ([[User talk:Sleaker|talk]]) 23:14, 19 October 2012 (MDT)

Talk:3.5e Optimized Character Builds

2012-10-20T05:14:17Z

Sleaker:

== Half-Optimizations ==

I believe it would be a good idea to create a seperate branch of this page: Half-Optimizations. This would be any cool tricks that are no doubt useful, but too small to warrant their own Builds. --[[User:Sir Milo Teabag|Sir Milo Teabag]] 17:08, 16 January 2008 (MST)

:Added. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 14:19, 18 January 2008 (MST)

:: it would be nice if this was added to the omptimized character build template. i didnt know how to make one until i mimicked one of them. --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 07:10, 21 February 2009 (MST)

== Class Guides ==

Wouldn't it also be a good idea to add a section for class guides (like the Artificer's Player's Guide?)? This would open a whole new field for those who know how to play a particular class very well and would like to teach others to do the same. -- [[User:OptimizationFanatic|OptimizationFanatic]] 20:36, 23 January 2008 (MST)

:Added. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 23:01, 23 January 2008 (MST)

::Indeed, some of the Half-Optimizations might do better under here... --[[User:Sir Milo Teabag|Sir Milo Teabag]] 06:33, 24 January 2008 (MST)

:::Perhaps. -- [[User:OptimizationFanatic|OptimizationFanatic]] 21:55, 24 January 2008 (MST)

::::And the [[Wizards' Handbook (DnD Optimized Character Build)|Wizards' Handbook]] is complete, making it the longest article posted in this section. -- [[User:OptimizationFanatic|OptimizationFanatic]] 17:05, 25 January 2008 (MST)

== Gestalt ==

Just a question. I have made a gestalt build on another site and wanted to post it here. I just wanted to make sure that gestalt builds were allowed. FYI, the build was for the Magnificint Monsters challenge on Giant In the Playground.--[[User:Ghostie1337|Ghostie1337]] 22:41, 4 April 2008 (MDT)

:It certainly should be. Please preface your build with Gestalt or something, though ''':)''' -- [[User:OptimizationFanatic|OptimizationFanatic]] 20:09, 15 April 2008 (MDT)

::We now actually have a Gestalt Optimization, thanks to [[User:Ganre|Yours Truly]], and i was wondering if they deserved their own category, to separate them from the standard builds. What do the other optimizers/Admins think? --[[User:Ganre|Ganre]] 00:53, 5 May 2008 (MDT)

:::Why not, [[:Category:Gestalt]] it is. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 23:47, 5 May 2008 (MDT)

== Monk ==

A small optimisation that isn't enough to give it its own page. Uses "Ultimate Prestige Classes 1", "Complete Warrior", "The Book of Exalted Deeds", the eberron book and the srd. It is gasalt and it has classes as follows... 12 monk/5 fighter/5 war shaper/2 student of the dragon.

It is linked here.. [http://www.playrpgonline.net/3eprofiler/view.php?id=2790|Uber] --[[User:Sabre070|Sabre070]] 07:36, 13 October 2008 (MDT)

:Removed. --[[User:Sabre070|Sabre070]] 22:10, 2 December 2008 (MST)

A ton of the monk builds on here take levels of Ranger to get Two-Weapon Fighting when it [[Talk:Champion_of_the_Forest_%283.5e_Optimized_Character_Build%29#Unarmed_Off-hand|it doesn't work that way]]. Is there a tag that should be attached to these and similar builds that don't conform to the rules? --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 07:55, 21 July 2009 (MDT)

== Where's the optimization? ==

I've been looking through a number of these builds, and most of them seem bereft of any optimization, built either for flavor or a mishmash of things that don't work towards a specific goal rather than optimizing a character. Perhaps some pruning might be a wise choice? {{unsigned|76.169.236.139}}

:We are looking at implementing a new (easy to use) rating system that would apply to all articles on the wiki. That will probably solve the problem here. --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 07:44, 25 June 2009 (MDT)

::Any idea when this goes into effect? [[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 02:07, 6 July 2009 (MDT)

:::Not sure yet. We first need to set up a vote, wait for the results (which will almost certainly go through), and then implement it. Give it another week or so at the very least. --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 08:10, 6 July 2009 (MDT)

::::I believe we should avoid using a rating system, however, I do have a suggestion. How about a template that a person can put at the top of a page that they thin is suboptimal, something that says "the optimization of this build is currently being questioned. for more information see the talk page." or such. Then, that person can list their issues with the build in the talk page. If the author agrees and alters, then remove the template. If not, and for valid reasons (i.e. "this optimization was built with only certain books" etc.) then the person who had the initial complain can make a variant page building it the way they saw fit. Then, finally, the pages could share a link to each other at the top (and any other similar pages). This avoids the issues that anything called "rating" typically gets, and will also provide positive feedback for authors of builds.  [[User:Hooper|''' Hooper ''']][[User talk:Hooper|  talk  ]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|  contribs  ]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|  email  ]] 15:17, 2 September 2009 (MDT)

== New category or subtype ==

Many of these contain things that aren't allowed in many games (Savage Species (3.0) material, Leadership, Hulking Hurlers, Divine Metamagic, and so on). Could we make a category for things that might be considered "cheesy"? Or would that be too pretentious? --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 02:51, 14 July 2009 (MDT)

== Similar Builds ==

A few of the builds presented here are quite similar to one-another, differing by only a class level or three. How would one go about merging them, or presenting one as the variant of another? --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 03:17, 14 July 2009 (MDT)

:I'm not usre if I would go that far, but we could certainly link similar builds, that would be neat. --[[User:Ganre|Ganre]] 22:30, 16 July 2009 (MDT)

== Mysterious "d" ==

Anyone else notice all the optimizations have a "d" after them now? --[[User:Ganre|Ganre]] 05:26, 26 December 2009 (MST)

:Yeah. When I made this page use SMW (the un-commented out information on the page) an extra d (Optimized Character Buil'''d''') showed up. Who knows. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 21:52, 27 December 2009 (MST)

== Page works strange ==
Tried IE, Mozilla and Opera, from my, and from some other computer, nad page keep looking like [http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/3484/temprs.png this] in this section
This wasn't case at the begining, it worked just fine few weaks ago. --[[User:Leviathan616|Leviathan616]] 08:56, 17 July 2010 (UTC)Leviathan616

:This is another side effect of when GD moved the wiki. As far as I know this, and a few other errors, are still plaguing the wiki, but he's working on a fix. It's not you, it's the wiki. It should be working again "soon", he said. --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 17:57, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

== Tough Love ==
I think this section needs some. We need to categorize it better, maybe make it so all the builds don't show up on one page, or start removing some of this stuff. It looks really bad, and the d at the end of all the titles still makes me sad. --[[User:Ganre|Ganre]] 14:50, 13 February 2012 (MST)
: It's also smattered with 4e builds now which have no place in the 3.5e sections... - [[User:Sleaker|Sleaker]] [[User:Sleaker|Sleaker]] ([[User talk:Sleaker|talk]]) 23:14, 19 October 2012 (MDT)

Talk:The Psionic Monk (3.5e Optimized Character Build)

2012-10-20T05:12:08Z

Sleaker:

==Tashalatora==

Outstanding build, similar to stuff I've been turning over in my head lately. Tashalatora is an amazing, perhaps overpowered, feat. One question on the mechanics, though. I'm not sure you can apply Tashalatora to every psionic class in which you have Monastic Training. The feat description doesn't say that; it says that levels in "the class" in which you took monastic training stack. My interpretation of the description would be that you need to take Tashalatora separately for each psionic class to which you want it to apply, much like you have to take Weapon Focus multiple times to apply it to multiple weapons. Just my sense of it.

Another question I've been turning over in my mind is how we define a "psionic class" for the purposes of the feat. Do prestige classes qualify? (I'd say yes, and it seems you agree). What qualities does a class have to have to be psionic? For example, is a psionic artificer a member of a psionic class? Your thoughts would be appreciated.[[User:S1Q3T3|S1Q3T3]] 22:42, 9 April 2009 (MDT)

== Is Monk Needed Here? ==

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that mountain trolls were human-shaped enough to wear belts; if that's so, can the 2 levels of monk just be replaced with a Monk's Belt? That would give you far better psionics. I've never seen Tashalatora so I'm not sure what the prereqs for that are. [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] 22:46, 9 April 2009 (MDT)

:Tashalatora is in [[Secrets of Sarlona]]. It allows you to stack your monk levels with your levels in a psionic class for which you have taken the Monastic Training feat from Eberron. The stack applies to unarmed damage, monk AC bonus, and flurry.
:Since Monastic Training can be subbed out for a monk bonus feat, losing the monk would knock you down a slot in terms of the crtical feats. It would also make you more vulnerable to antimagic/dispelling effects. He'd also lose the Wisdom bonus to AC. On the other hand, I'm always trying to squeeze more psionics out of twenty levels, so your point is well taken. He ends up with a Manifester level of 20 (thanks to Practiced Manifester) and 221 power points plus bonus. That's pretty good. [[User:S1Q3T3|S1Q3T3]] 07:30, 10 April 2009 (MDT)

::Just a note; he'd not lose wisdom to AC, as Monk's Belt gives you that. --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 08:45, 10 April 2009 (MDT)

== Tashalatora ==

Sorry for the confusion, Tashalatora only stacks with Slayer because that's what MOnastic Training was keyed to. So your monk levels are 2+10 SLayer levels. Then a Monk's Tattoo bonuses this up to I believe another +4 (For purposes of Flurry/AC/Unarmed damage).

Metamorphosis and Expansion work together. Metamorph changes your form. Expansion increases your size. I'm not sure who thought it wouldn't work, but it does, just like Polymorph and Enlarge Person does.. - [[User:Sleaker|Sleaker]] 22:58, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

== Want more w/ less ==

0) I love the idea of a psionicist monk and wish they could freely multi-class in 3.5e, as the Oriental Adventures monk can from 3e. I understand the need to balance them though, I just wish I could multi-class back & forth w/ an Ardent instead of only the Fist of Zuoken. I suppose they're powerful enough but I'd love some help optimizing one w/ an Unarmed Weaponmaster.

1) a kobold? seems like he would lack personality... I'm kinda against most monstrous humanoids becoming monks since I think they would lack the wisdom/enlightenment essentially but I don't know the 'rules' (nor am I likely to dig them up just now). #justsayin' I guess make him venerable provides significant back-story.

2) Is optimizing a unarmed weaponmaster psionicist monk almost assuredly rely on expansion & metamorphing or are their other options... i.e. more skirmisher/healer or gish instead of brawler/bruiser?

3) what are the homebrew, pathfinder & 5e options

:Kobold is used specifically for Dragonwrought abuse, which allows a Kobold to abuse age penalties (completely remove them) along with making the lifespan of the kobold x5 or x10 cha past Venerable (if your DM keeps track). So essentially a free +3 to all mental abilities. On top of the ability scores, a Dragonwrought becomes typed as adragon not a humanoid (dragonblood). Which prevents spells like charm person (if it was even a thread anyway) and various other things for not being typed as a human. There are also various other fun benefits with the kobold, size, languages, lore, dark vision...
: Yes. size bonuses create the bulk of the damage increases especially for unarmed damage. Colossal++ size accounts for a massive damage boost after everything is added up.
: I don't look at homebrew as I was keeping this all within WoTC sources. This probably isn't possible in Pathfinder as none of the required sources are available (those being the feats which stack class levels). 5e I have no clue as I haven't even seen it yet.
: - [[User:Sleaker|Sleaker]] 23:12, 19 October 2012 (MDT)

Talk:Blood Knight (3.5e Prestige Class)

2011-03-04T21:01:16Z

Sleaker: /* Picture */

== Rating ==

<s>'''Power - 4/5'''</s> I give this class a 4 out of 5 because the blood points seem overpowered in some instances. This is mainly with regard to fast healing and that one has a lot of blood points which cost little to use, possibly leading to more uses than a spellcaster could cast in a day. The "becoming a vampire" is not very detailed (+8 LA still?). --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:03, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

:The "becoming a vampire" is much better now, and I helped clear it up a little more. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 14:30, 22 November 2010 (MST)

::<s>'''Power - 4.5/5'''</s> I give this class a 4.5 out of 5 because a few issues are present.
::[[Blood Knight (3.5e Prestige Class)#Summon Bat Swarm|Summon bat swarm]] disregards the vampire's [[SRD:Vampire#Children of the Night|children of the night]] in some regards. Is this intended?
::[[Blood Knight (3.5e Prestige Class)#Animate Dead|Animate dead]] seems to be not terribly vampire-esque. [[SRD:Vampire|Vampires]] do not seem to have much to do with [[:Category:Undead Type|undead]] just for being undead, and I wonder if this class should. Vampires seem more to have enslaved individuals, such as vampire spawn, or command over lesser being of the world. Thoughts on this?
::[[:Category:Undead Type|Undead]] are ''"[n]ot at risk of death from massive damage, but when reduced to 0 [[SRD:Hit Points|hit points]] or less, it is immediately destroyed."''. How does this work with [[Blood Knight (3.5e Prestige Class)#Taking on the Vampire Template|taking on the vampire template]]? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:00, 23 November 2010 (MST)

:::I made [[Blood Knight (3.5e Prestige Class)#Taking on the Vampire Template|taking on the vampire template]] work with [[SRD:Dying|dying]], however the balance of the [[Blood Knight (3.5e Prestige Class)#Special Ability|special abilities]] and so needs to be looked at, so the balance remains. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 23:54, 2 December 2010 (MST)

::::'''Power - 5/5''' I give this class a 5 out of 5 because it seems much better now. Also, I switched hellfire blast with [[Blood Knight (3.5e Prestige Class)#Contagion|contagion]]. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 23:17, 5 January 2011 (MST)

<s>'''Wording - 4/5'''</s> I give this class a 4 out of 5 because it reads through well. The class features, however, do not use Wizards' format (the level repeated, description (I believe), etc). --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:03, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

:'''Wording - 5/5''' I give this class a 5 out of 5 because it reads through well and uses the correct wording format. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 23:17, 5 January 2011 (MST)

<s>'''[[Help:Standards and Formatting (DnD Guideline)|Formatting]] - 4/5'''</s> I give this class a 4 out of 5 because it is missing links throughout. Everything which can be linked should be linked (within reason, the standard is one per term per paragraph). Also each class feature is not designated. A few things could be touched up on, of course. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:03, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

:'''[[Help:Standards and Formatting (DnD Guideline)|Formatting]] - 5/5''' I give this class a 5 out of 5 because it is formatted correctly. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 14:30, 22 November 2010 (MST)

<s>'''Flavor - 4/5'''</s> I give this class a 4 out of 5 because it is missing an example NPC. Nice flavor though, and I like the implementation. I also wonder if the Special Abilities should have more options. Once ''could'' simplify them to five spells, two variations of [[SRD:Combat Expertise|Combat Expertise]], a taunt , and an improvement of [[SRD:Intimidate|Intimidate]]. It works, yes, but maybe something else could be added, more vampire-esque. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:03, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

:'''Flavor - 5/5''' I give this class a 5 out of 5 because it is not missing any areas. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 14:30, 22 November 2010 (MST)

Also, what is this based off? And if these issues get fixed, or at least discussed, I find that this could be nominated for Featured Article status. And is everything on [[dndmedia:File:Blood-knight-1.jpg]] accurate? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:03, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

:It's a conglomerate of ideas found in several works. I borrowed elements from ''Warhammer Fantasy Battle'' Vampire Count Blood Knights, the ''World of Darkness''-based ''Vampire: The Masquerade'', and the "Blood" talent tree of ''World of Warcraft'' Death Knights. The image is accurate to the best of my knowledge; I came across it on a Google Image Search of the term "blood knight". Will hopefully have time to fix it up this weekend. [[User:Dude Bob|Dude Bob]] 19:02, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

== Featured Article Nomination ==

{{Succeeded Featured Article Nominee|--[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 18:24, 7 January 2011 (MST)}}

I nominate this for featured article status as I find that it is well written and comprehensive. Although how stable this is, is unknown to a degree it should be stable enough based off the its rating. It's formatted correctly, has an appropriate image, and uses SRD rules appropriately, and its variant rules are well-worded and understandable. For these reasons this article deserves to be a featured article. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:59, 6 January 2011 (MST)

== Balance and Wording ==

I see that this was nominated for only about 30 hours before being confirmed. While I'm not opposed to the confirmation, as it is a very well written article, I have to ask if this was long enough. Personally, I have some questions. For instance:

*"Crossing running water not in his coffin home or aboard a ship" can cause a Blood Knight to lose powers, but later on the page it says Blood Knights have "no concern for a coffin home". Which is it?
*Why is "Blood points resonate with vampires" (a sentence which doesn't make any sense to me) in a paragraph about vampire weaknesses, and not in the paragraph about blood points?
*"Taking on the vampire template" isn't nearly as fluff-y as some of the other names on the features. Maybe consider something like "vampire apotheosis" or "vampiric ascension"?
*The 10th level ability says "vampire(by which I assume you mean Blood Knight) gains 2 temporary hit points and 1 blood point". Is that on top of the 5 temp hit points you get from the vampire template blood drain ability, or instead? Can you choose which you want?
*Smelling garlic or seeing a mirror causes him to lose all his powers for 2 days. That may be a little harsh, dontcha think?

Again, I know some of these are really nit-picky, but I think when it comes to FA status, all your t's should be crossed, and your I's dotted... --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 19:28, 7 January 2011 (MST)

:I just thought no one was going to respond, so I finished the FA. I was wrong, and this is not to say I do not appreciate your response. I do.
:"Crossing running water not in his coffin home or aboard a ship" can cause a blood knight to lose powers, but later on the page it says Blood Knights have "no concern for a coffin home" is like that to take into consideration when the blood knight is a vampire.
:"Blood points resonate with vampires" is meant to describe their similarities to vampire abilities; I could not figure out a way to word it better. If you do know of a better way please fix it. It is not in the class features since the special abilities describe the specifics, not a generalization wording to describe the blood points. Does this make any sense, or would something else work better with this regard?
:"Apotheosis" infers a worship aspect, something which does not relate well to this class. I changed it to "ascension", thanks for the idea.
:I fixed the vampire wording to say blood knight. Hm... Does gaining [[SRD:Temporary Hit Points|temporary hit points]] stack inherently?
:I based the things which effect blood point's availability off [[SRD:Vampire#Vampire Weaknesses]]. What is your opinion on the time frames? I started at 2 and then incrementally upward at 3, as vampires cannot even do such things (and blood points which "resonate" (for lack of better wording) relate). --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:01, 7 January 2011 (MST)

::Alright, well, let me begin by saying I honestly have no idea what some of your comments mean. Let's just go through in order, shall we?
::*Coffin homes: A blood knight doesn't need a coffin until he becomes a true vampire. Fair enough. I would make that clear somehow.
::*"Blood points resonate with vampires"": Understood. However, I think if you flat out removed the sentence, everything would still make sense. It adds nothing but confusion, in my mind.
::*"Apotheosis" is defined as "ideal: model of excellence or perfection of a kind; one having no equal", but if you want to go with the other suggestion, that's fine by me. I just recall the SRD prestige class Dragon Disciple uses "dragon apotheosis" as it's keystone ability name.
::*Traditionally, no Temp hit points don't stack, you take the higher source, if I recall correctly. Does that mean you get 5 temp hit points and a blood point? I don't care if you do, I just want to be clear.
::*I don't know, I mean, do you think it's fair that if a Blood Knight walks past an Italian restaurant he loses all class abilities for 2 days? I get being repulsed by garlic, and even being adversely affected by it, but I think nothing more than "shaken until the bad thing is gone, and for 1d4 rounds after", or "frightened/cowering/panicked until the bad thing is gone" seems more fair. I know I would be upset if one commoner holds up a mirror and suddenly I've got no class abilities.
::--[[User:Badger|Badger]] 20:27, 7 January 2011 (MST)

:::I cleared up the confusion with the coffin home.
:::I am getting a lot of things relating to gods with "apotheosis", and did before. That's actually why I changed it before. I like ascension however, but you are right that the SRD uses apotheosis. Dunno. Any strong thoughts one way or the other?
:::"Resonate" is in the class features as well. I forgot I added that there too. Does it not make sense there? Is it something which inherently makes little sense (should I change it to "nature" like the lore section?)
:::Sorry, I did not mean temp hit points stacking (as it's one or another attack; "he drains blood with blood drain or blood point blood drain"). I meant fast healing. Do you know about that?
:::What do you think about the time frames of the special ability now? I don't know about making him become shaken/frightened/cowering/panicked, as then blood points have more of an effect then [[SRD:Vampire#Vampire Weaknesses|vampire weaknesses]] do (just can't go near it). Although maybe only within the five feet? Thoughts? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:59, 7 January 2011 (MST)

::::As far as apotheosis, I don't really care one way or the other, whatever works for you is fine.
::::I think my sticking point with "resonate" in the class features, is I'm not sure what it means. Sure, blood knights are like vampires. I get that. I think the reader will get that. I don't think you need that sentence there if all it is doing is saying "things in Blood Knights are kinda like things in Vampires", know what I mean?
::::I think I like the changes made to the holy symbol/garlic rules. That seems a lot better, and a lot less upsetting for players. And to be clear, when a blood knight is pinning an opponent, and he choses to drain their blood, he has to declare whether it's a "blood point blood drain" or just a generic vampire "blood drain", as detailed in the vampire template. To make thing less confusing, maybe even consider renaming the vampire ability to something grimdark like "death fang" or "Death's kiss"? "Blood point blood drain" is quite a mouthful, and sounds too close to "blood drain" in my mind. I would make it clear in the class ability description that you choose the blood knight or the vampire ability. Maybe something like "If a blood knight pins a foe, he may choose to drain the victim's blood with the vampiric template's blood drain ability or the blood knight's "death fang" ability."
::::Thoughts? --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 00:05, 8 January 2011 (MST)

:::::I removed resonate from the class features.
:::::What do you think about "blood fang"? Also, I tried to clear up the wording to make that class feature more understandable. Is it good?
:::::Also, do you know about fast healing stacking? As thing inherently do not stack, I assume it does not, however as DR states it inherently (and both relate to hp) it may. Do you know? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 11:14, 8 January 2011 (MST)

::::::I think removing resonate from class features helps. I'm going to make a small edit to what you have for "blood fang", but it's much better than before, in my opinion. If you want to just declare "the Blood Knight's fast healing ability stacks with other sources of fast healing" I think it would be fine. I would make a sentence that clearly rules one way or the other. The epic feat "fast healing" stacks with itself, as well as other permanent sources of fast healing, so I'd probably allow it. Considering entrance requirements, you're going to be level 6 or 7 before getting the pre-reqs met, you will have to wait another 5 levels for fast healing, so it's not really a worthwhile way to game the system. --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 16:05, 8 January 2011 (MST)

:::::::I removed that blood fang is related to the blood knight (as one is one this page) and cleaned up the wording a bit.
:::::::I added information about stacking. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:26, 8 January 2011 (MST)

::::::::I think that is a whole lot better, don't you agree? --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 23:05, 8 January 2011 (MST)

:::::::::Yes. What are your thoughts on the balance? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 23:54, 8 January 2011 (MST)

::::::::::I've never had a very good eye for balance, but my first instinct is to say this gets too weak at higher levels. While all the special abilities are pretty cool at the first 2 or 3 levels of Blood Knight, at level 10 (about ECL 16, by my best guess) most of them just seem kinda silly. I mean, why bother summoning a pack of wolves at level 16? Sure, I could think of a few reasons, but it's hardly worth it. Plus, a bunch of the special abilities are weaker than/identical to abilities gotten when you reach vampiric ascension. All in all, I can't imagine anyone really wanting to spend more than about 2 levels of this class. Bottom line, getting bitten by a vampire would be faster, and all in all almost as good. I'd probably rate balance at a 3.5 or 4 out of 5. I just don't think it has the awesomeness we like to see at higher level prestige classes. I mean, compare it to [[Spider_Rider_(3.5e_Prestige_Class)|spider rider]], which has enough interesting things at high levels to make me want to take all 10. I guess this falls into flavor as well as balance. While the ability to cast ''vampiric touch'' 8 times a day at level 16 is pretty powerful, we have to remember it's only 5d6 per touch. An equal level wizard can cast it 6 times a day, and deal 8d6 per touch. Granted, a blood knight is much more likely to hit, but it still doesn't even out, I don't think. Life force strike seems to be pretty powerful, however. +5 to all attacks for 10 rounds at level 15? Couple that with the DR 15/Silver, Magic he can get and for 2 blood points he's dealing a bunch more damage than your average fighter, with a bunch of DR as well. I don't know, I feel like you're only ever going to use like 2 or 3 different abilities from the 10 you have access to. --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 00:36, 9 January 2011 (MST)

:::::::::::I based the balance off two things. The first is 20% recourse expenditure per encounter, meaning the EL they encounter should give enough blood points through HD for the blood knight to use 20% (considering they only use their portion, which may not be the case more the it is). This is what the DMG recommends.
:::::::::::The other thing I based it off is the [[SRD:Arcane Archer|arcane archer's]] enhance arrow. Although enhance arrow is present 100% of the time for non-magical ranged combat, these abilities are not. I considered the 1 minute to work in that regard because a blood knight gains and can use multiple abilities. I found the additional attack bonus and damage enhance arrow gives and made the numbers (close to) the same for AC, attack bonus and damage, fast healing's bonus, and DR. Then, as a blood knight uses many spells, I had to find one which worked with the same balance. I considered ''[[SRD:Greater Magic Weapon|greater magic weapon's]]'' duration to counter the enhancement, and be the "same balance". I then made sure all the spells which relate to vampire's nature to where the same level, and considered it balanced. I then based the abilities which do not fit into either off spells which relate, such as ''[[SRD:Summon Monster III|summon monster III]]''.
:::::::::::Does this knowledge change your opinion at all, or what do you recommend? Maybe CL equal to HD (more vampire vampireesque)? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:04, 9 January 2011 (MST)

::::::::::::Again, my eye isn't great for balance. I think it comes down to where we're trying to balance this. It's common knowledge that wizards are stronger than monks (I don't want to start this fight now, so I'm declaring this an axiom). So, are we trying to make this as strong as a wizard? As strong as a Monk? Anything in between? It's stronger than a monk, that's for sure. No question about it. So, if we're aiming for anything between monk and wizard, then yeah, it's balanced.
::::::::::::I would like to touch on flavor, however. It's always been my opinion that a homebrew class should be introducing new and unique content to the world. I'm ok with using some things that are pre-existing in the SRD, but I'd like to see some more original content here. My hands down favorite parts of this class are the ones that don't refer to an existing spell. Does that make sense? As of right now, this class is a collection of existing parts. Sure, this class is fluffed up and has a unique theme, but I would rate this a 4/5 for flavor, simply because I want to see new mechanics and interesting things in a homebrew class. --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 12:46, 9 January 2011 (MST)

:::::::::::::I changed the CL to equal HD.
:::::::::::::The mechanic itself, however, is unique. Just the parts use rules from elsewhere. I don't know, what do you recommend? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:09, 9 January 2011 (MST)

{{Discussion Indentation Revert}}

:I don't know, I just think that it's very likely that the entire blood point mechanic will quickly be reduced to "after combat I drink all the blood I can, even if I don't say I do" and he never really has to worry about running out of blood points. Know what I mean? I don't know, how about this for a change:
:'''Blood Points:''' A blood knight draws his power from drinking the blood of intelligent creatures. As long as he has drunk the fresh blood of at least one recently dead intelligent creature every day, he gets a number of blood points equal to his blood knight's level + his Cha modifier (if any). The maximum number of blood points decreases by one (to 0) for every day he does not drink the blood of an intelligent creature, and can only be restored to the original maximum by drinking blood again.
:This method reduced a lot of the book-keeping, and doesn't require a player to ask a DM how many points he gets back after ever encounter. Plus, it restricts his daily allotment of uses. Before, he could theoretically cast any ability an infinite number of times, as long as he could still find a source of fresh blood. Beyond that, I would consider adding a few more unique powers. Looking back, there was one about turning into a swarm of shadow bats. That seemed really cool, flavor-wise. I don't know why it was removed, but we should figure out a mechanic to bring that back. That's what I'm talking about. --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 13:27, 9 January 2011 (MST)

::Right, a character should drink all the blood they should. Here is where that is balanced, however.
::{| class="{{d20}}"
! ECL !! Level !! Blood Points !! Party HD !! Individual HD !! Blood Points at 3
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| 6 || 1 || 4 (3 Cha) || 12 || 3 || 1 (oh well)
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| 8 || 3 || 4 (3 Cha) || 16 || 4 || 1 (oh well)
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| 9 || 4 || 5 (3 Cha) || 18 || 4 || 1
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| 11 || 6 || 6 (3 Cha) || 22 || 5 || 1
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| 13 || 8 || 8 (4 Cha) || 26 || 6 || 2 (oh well)
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| 15 || 10 || 10 (5 Cha) || 30 || 7 || 2
|}
::At such an amount of blood point usage I do not find that one can powergame this.
::What do I think about your method? I think it resembles spellcasting too much, and is less unique then the current method. It's comparable to making certain that one starts his day drinking blood, and then is good to go (like preparing spells).
::[[Blood Knight (3.5e Prestige Class)#Alternate Form|Alternate form]] still mentions the [[SRD:Swarm Subtype|swarm]] of [[:Category:Diminutive Size|Diminutive]] batlike shadows (and relates well to [[SRD:Vampire|vampires]] I find). --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:50, 9 January 2011 (MST)

:::I have no idea what that table you've posted means. Could you better explain what it means? I have no idea what "Party HD" means, or "Individual HD" or "Blood Points at 3" means. As for my system being like spell prep, that was my plan. It has dramatically less bookkeeping than your method. I'm not saying your method is wrong or bad, I'm just saying that it would slow down the game a bit. Please, better explain your table, so I know what you're trying to say. --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 15:48, 9 January 2011 (MST)

::::The HD the party will encounter at ECL is the "Party HD" (from DMG). That, divided by 4 (party size), is the HD a blood knight can expect to get blood points from after each encounter (a party of blood knights, under servitude or something) listed as "Individual HD". The last column then shows how many blood points a blood knight can expect to receive after an encounter (assuming no fleeing and so).
::::This shows that normally a blood knight can only expect to get 1 blood point from most encounters, a very small amount. This is why I think this cannot be powergamed (and if they ''do'' flee...).
::::Yes, my method requires the DM to mention how many HD a blood knight can get (HD/4 if all are blood knights and each get blood points together) but that is as easy as checking the type and hp entry. I don't think this is too much to ask.
::::The reason I think this is better then a spell-like method is so this is much more unique. Thoughts? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 16:02, 9 January 2011 (MST)

:::::Ahh, ok, your table makes a lot more sense now. That said, I think we can safely assume most parties (given the nature of parties) will only have 1 BK. At least, in most of my games, no one took the same class as someone else. Sure, maybe someone would take a level of wizard for a PrC, but no one took the same PrC progression as someone else. While your math works for a party where everyone needs the blood, most parties will only have 1 person who wants to drink the blood. That means that we can say a BK gets, on average, between 4 and 8 BP per encounter. That's likely more than he'll use, which makes it easily gamed. --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 16:48, 9 January 2011 (MST)

::::::What are your thoughts on putting an upward limit on the amount of blood points gained in an hours (or something) time period? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 18:48, 9 January 2011 (MST)

:::::::I think that continues to complicate an already intricate system. Besides, I don't know about you, but game time is a very fluid thing in my games. It's sometimes hard to tell what took hours, and what took minutes. Basing mechanics off that might get tricky. --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 19:20, 9 January 2011 (MST)

::::::::"''To gain blood points a blood knight can feast on the fresh blood, died within the last 10 minutes, of a fallen creature for 1 minute''" — the goal is not to define time in anyone's game, it's to restrict the blood points gained per encounter.
::::::::It's not a complicated system. I understood it when I first read it.
::::::::Do you understand why I think that would make a big balancing change? What is your opinion on it now that I mentioned the overall goal? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:44, 9 January 2011 (MST)

:::::::::Sorry if I was unclear, I get what you are trying to do is limit blood points per encounter. Let's pretend you can only get 5 BP per hour. What I'm saying is suppose the party is adventuring in a cave or forest, where passage of time isn't as obvious. The party kills a giant, and the blood knight feeds. The party adventures on, and encounters another giant. Oh noes! But, no worries, they kill it. The BK wants to feed, but wait! How long ago was the last encounter? Has an hour passed? Is he allowed to feed? That's where I'm seeing a potential problem. The Blood Knight will always say it's been long enough, because he wants more BP. Unless your DM has a good reason to say so, he should probably just let the BK feed again, in which case, why implement the rule at all? --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 21:48, 9 January 2011 (MST)

::::::::::Metagaming issues not powergaming issues, right.
::::::::::As I considered the HD to be in the middle for creature creation (×2), half one's HD equals a usable amount.
::::::::::I changed it to the following. "''A creature's HD determine how many blood points its corpse contains, however each time a blood knight feasts he cannot feast on more HD then {{1/2}} blood knight's HD.''" Thoughts? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:59, 9 January 2011 (MST)

:::::::::::So a level 8 BK can feast on 4 HD of creatures, getting him at most 1 BP (depending on the source)? Is that per encounter/"feeding", or per creature? --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 13:55, 10 January 2011 (MST)

::::::::::::No. See also [[SRD:Vampire#Special Attacks]]. When it mentions "''Saves have a [[SRD:DC|DC]] of 10 + 1/2 vampire’s [[SRD:Hit Dice|HD]] + vampire's [[SRD:Charisma|Cha]] modifier unless noted otherwise.''" one should note ''no'' HD are gained from the vampire template. So, the HD must refer to one's full HD. The wording is the same.
::::::::::::And I worded it loosely, each time he feasts, so a DM determines it mostly (especially if a DM would allow something like feasting on a lot of creatures with almost no HD for their HD added together, and things like that). Do you think this makes sense? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 16:24, 10 January 2011 (MST)

:::::::::::::I have NO idea what your last post means. --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 17:56, 10 January 2011 (MST)

{{Discussion Indentation Revert}}

:[[SRD:Vampire]] mentions "''1/2 vampire's [[SRD:Hit Dice|HD]]''", however the vampire template grants no HD. This means that that wording means one's total HD. The same wording is used here, with the same intent. So someone with 6 HD (level 1 blood knight) can get 1 blood point max (feasting on 3 HD).
:And the wording is "''each time a blood knight feasts he cannot ... ''". This wording is very open to interpretation, as mentioned above. I think, however, a DM will be reasonable and consider it the feasting's ordeal in its entirety. Do you think this makes sense? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:07, 10 January 2011 (MST)

::Oh, I'm sorry, the confusion was on my end. When I said "level 8 BK" I meant ECL 8, so Cleric/6 BK/2, or whatever. So yeah, I was interpreting your rules correctly. And you've left the wording intentionally vague, so different players and DMs can interpret it differently. I think that is a bad idea. You shouldn't ''intentionally'' leave things vague. You should pick, one or the other, and write it that way. In my mind, it should be encounter based (summing all the deads' HD together), as I don't see why 5 3rd level commoners would have ''less blood'' for BP than 1 15th level fighter. --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 21:46, 10 January 2011 (MST)

:::Oh, sorry. I misunderstood what you meant by "level". Anyway, what wording would you recommend? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:25, 11 January 2011 (MST)

::::How about "''While creature's HD determine how many blood points its corpse contains, a blood knight cannot feast on more than {{1/2}} his HD every 10 minutes. ''"? I included the 10 minutes, as that's how long it takes for blood to "go bad", so you can't save blood for later in a jar or something. --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 16:41, 11 January 2011 (MST)

:::::I don't think using time is good. One could powergame and feast once and say that's the end of a ten minute segment and then feast once again right after as a start of another segment. Or one could powergame and kill a creature, have his teammates keep attacking others while feasting on it, and then feast once again after the encounter (waiting 10 minutes in between while the corpse is still good). --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 21:52, 11 January 2011 (MST)

::::::What if you say feasting takes 10 minutes? --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 23:44, 11 January 2011 (MST)

:::::::I changed the wording to "''To gain blood points a blood knight can feast on the fresh blood, died within the last 10 minutes, of fallen creatures for 10 minutes, however the blood does not have to be considered fresh when the blood knight is finished. A corpse grants blood points only one time, after which it is not rich in blood points. A creature's [[SRD:Hit Dice (Creature Statistic)|HD]] determine how many blood points its corpse contains, however a blood knight cannot feast on more HD then {{1/2}} blood knight's HD. If the blood knight feasts on multiple creatures their HD are added together for the purposes of a blood knight's special ability.''" — what do you think about this wording?
:::::::Also, any thoughts on the non-class features wording? Is it understandable? Does it convey the class correctly? Is it readable? Any general thoughts? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:54, 13 January 2011 (MST)

== Picture ==

Where did that picture come from? [[User:Camulus|Camulus]] 05:25, 9 January 2011 (MST)

:See [[#Rating|Rating]] above. You'd have to ask [[User:Dude Bob|Dude Bob]], why? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 11:50, 9 January 2011 (MST)

== Rating ==

How is this a featured article? There are grammar mistakes, capitalization errors, tense inconsistencies, a host of mechanical ambiguities, and power level inconsistency. For one, it mentions that it needs Intelligence, which is never referenced again. It gains new weapon and armor proficiencies, which is practically unheard of for prestige classes. It's got multiple-ability dependency either way, since it needs the physical three plus Charisma, the abilities are completely inconsistent in terms of strength (''fear'' is awesome, ''charm animal'' sucks, the rest runs the gamut in between, and there's nothing influencing order of selection), lifeforce strike doesn't specify a bonus type, so there's no way to know what it does or doesn't stack with, the blanket vampire weaknesses make the class easily turned into a whole lot of BAB and nothing else, the blood draining ability is horribly worded, and then there's things like the following:

{{quote|At 2nd level, a blood knight can store [[#Vampiric Touch|vampiric touch]] as well as ''[[SRD:Vampiric Touch|vampiric touch]]'' into his weapon, as if it were a [[SRD:Spell Storing|spell storing]] weapon.}}

Seriously, this is not good. How can you justify turning something like this into a featured article with such glaring mistakes? I rate the article with the numbers below, justified by what is written above for wording, and what is detailed below.

<s>'''Power - 2.5/5'''</s> I give this class a 2.5 out of 5 comparing it against other gish types. There's some reasonable abilities, such as the generic attack, fast healing, and damage reduction boosts, but most of the spell-likes are essentially save or sucks (''blacklight'' has some interesting tactical options, but it's about blindness in the end, which is incredibly capable in its own right), things like ''contagion'' are hardly worth an action when compared to things like ''fear'', and when you're simply spamming ''fear'' you're not really a gish. That's an issue. The vampire weaknesses without save makes it really easy to go from awesome in a narrow capacity to a bunch of hit dice waiting to be slaughtered. Again, not good. Opportunities for mitigating the weaknesses would be good, or having the weaknesses not be so absolute. Abilities that make you a gish (buffing, action reducers/combiners) instead of an opponent that spams a single SLA or two would also be an improvement.

:I removed this rating because it is no longer applicable. Intelligence used to be used, but as the ability was made to relate to vampires more, it no longer is. Thanks for bringing that up, and I removed it.
:I removed the weapon and armor proficiency, as what you said makes sense.
:The multiple-ability dependency is now at three, something which I think is okay. Thoughts?
:The balance of the [[Blood Knight (3.5e Prestige Class)#Special Ability|special abilities]] is as follows.
:{{quote|
:I based the balance off two things. The first is 20% recourse expenditure per encounter, meaning the EL they encounter should give enough blood points through HD for the blood knight to use 20% (considering they only use their portion, which may not be the case more the it is). This is what the DMG recommends.
:The other thing I based it off is the [[SRD:Arcane Archer|arcane archer's]] enhance arrow. Although enhance arrow is present 100% of the time for non-magical ranged combat, these abilities are not. I considered the 1 minute to work in that regard because a blood knight gains and can use multiple abilities. I found the additional attack bonus and damage enhance arrow gives and made the numbers (close to) the same for AC, attack bonus and damage, fast healing's bonus, and DR. Then, as a blood knight uses many spells, I had to find one which worked with the same balance. I considered ''[[SRD:Greater Magic Weapon|greater magic weapon's]]'' duration to counter the enhancement, and be the "same balance". I then made sure all the spells which relate to vampire's nature to where the same level, and considered it balanced. I then based the abilities which do not fit into either off spells which relate, such as ''[[SRD:Summon Monster III|summon monster III]]''.
|src=--[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:04, 9 January 2011 (MST)
|orig=[[#Balance and Wording|Balance and Wording]]
}}
:In accordance with what your mentioned above, however, which ability changes do you recommend? Which "gish" abilities, and so?
:The the blanket vampire weaknesses are like the [[SRD:Vampire#Vampire Weaknesses]], to make the blood points flavor-wise relate to the vampire and this class relate to the vampire. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 15:32, 16 January 2011 (MST)

::I don't think you're right to negate this rating. You addressed two of his concerns, and one of them was just an oversight that you fixed. There are still many problems with balance. Re-quoting your rationale for balancing the class doesn't mean the class is balanced, it means now that we know where you're coming from, we can fix things. In my opinion, this still deserves the <s>'''2.5/5 for Balance'''</s> --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 18:41, 16 January 2011 (MST)

:::The SRD is balanced (within reason) so that which is a fixed oversight can be so regarded. For input, input is needed of course. So, what are the thoughts on balance? Anything mentioned, of course, should be balanced. With nothing mentioned this rating cannot be considered, as it has no grounding. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:03, 16 January 2011 (MST)

::::The SRD may be balanced within reason (personally, I don't think so, but that's irrelevant), but that doesn't mean giving a level 1 wizard access to 9th level spells is balanced. What I'm saying is you can't rely on just saying "it's in the core, so it's fair" as your logic for balance. I have no idea what "that which is a fixed oversight can be so regarded" means. Since you want actual examples, here are a few:
::::*While within 5 feet of the odor of garlic, a mirror, or a strongly presented holy symbol a blood knight's special abilities cease to function and he loses all his blood points
::::There should be a save there. I don't know what mechanic you want to use, but there needs to be something.
::::*Alternate form enables a 6th level blood knight to turn into a dire wolf.
::::A 6th level blood knight is most likely ECL 12, and a dire wolf is CR 3. Why bother?
::::*At 1st level (ECL 6) blood knight can cast fear, except that it requires no material component.
::::Fear is a 4th level spell, available to wizards at 8th level at the soonest. At ECL 6 he can cast it 4 times a day (if he has 16 Charisma)
::::There are 3 problems, I'm quite sure I could find more. --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 21:07, 16 January 2011 (MST)

:::::By "that which is a fixed oversight can be so regarded" I meant that the oversight I fixed ([[Blood Knight (3.5e Prestige Class)#Special Ability|special ability]]) is SRD-related (relative ECL too), so it ''should'' be good-to-go. Of course a disproving would show otherwise.
:::::The mechanic being used is the [[SRD:Vampire#Vampire Weaknesses|vampire weaknesses]], however they do require a standard action to keep the vampire at bay. I added this mechanic in. Do you think this covers it?
:::::Why does a vampire bother with it's [[SRD:Vampire#Alternate Form|alternate form]]? Who knows, but because vampires have it, it is here (flavor thing).
:::::''Fear'' is level three for bards though. I just thought that there is no reason for everything to center around sorcerer/wizards. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 21:47, 16 January 2011 (MST)

::::::No, your addition of the words "taking a standard action" don't make any sense at all. If someone leaves garlic lying on a table, who is taking the standard action? Same for a mirror hung on a wall. While yes, ''Fear'' is a 3rd level bard spell, I'll remind you that bards have a different spell progression than wizards, and get 3rd level spells at 8th level (or 7th level if they have at least 16 Cha, to get bonus spells). 6th level is still a level (or two) before that. Plus, a blood knight with equal charisma can cast it 4 times if his "blood pool" is full, and can recharge it and cast it another 4 times no worries, whereas a bard can cast it exactly once per day. --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 23:43, 16 January 2011 (MST)

:::::::I made the wording relate even more to the [[SRD:Vampire|vampire]]. To be honest, one will know where it is coming from and understand it, but it works better now I guess.
:::::::Recharging is no walk in the park. Corpses lose their richness.
:::::::I switched fear to bestow curse, you have a point and that does the same thing for the blood knight (well, a little different but still same idea). --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:41, 17 January 2011 (MST)

::::::::Let's be very clear right now, recharging BP will be very easy. You walk into a town, corner some guy, drag him to a dark alley and feast. Repeat. Or easier still, you kill an enemy in combat, after combat, you drink their blood. As long as you drink enough blood to get 2 or 3 BP after every combat, you won't ever be out of BP. It's that simple. I do think the wording of weaknesses is better, but still needs work. --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 14:11, 17 January 2011 (MST)

:::::::::No. Leveling is very easy. You walk into a town, corner some guy, drag him to a dark alley and gain experience. Repeat. Drinking enough blood for 3 blood points is not possible until ECL 18. ECL 12 is 2, and still that's only 2/encounter (unless one endangers their comrades in battle for 10 minutes while feasting, a major disadvantage and balance changer). --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 15:57, 17 January 2011 (MST)

::::::::::Is there no minimum set for BP drain? Can you drink blood from something and get 0 BP? --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 17:03, 17 January 2011 (MST)

:::::::::::Of course there is not; [[SRD:Basics]]. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 17:53, 17 January 2011 (MST)

::::::::::::Well, the page clearly states exceptions exist. This might be one of those exception. I'd clarify that. --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 18:58, 17 January 2011 (MST)

<s>'''Wording - 2.5/5'''</s> I give this class a 2.5 out of 5 because of the issues detailed above.

:I removed this rating because, for it to be applicable, please mention which grammar mistakes are present where (or something along those lines). Same with capitalization errors (this does adhere to [[When to Italicize and Capitalize (DnD Guideline)|when to italicize and capitalize]]) and tense inconsistencies. These issues will be dealt with, but if one cannot find them this rating holds no merit.
:[[Blood Knight (3.5e Prestige Class)#Lifeforce Strike|Lifeforce strike]], like [[SRD:Weapon Focus|Weapon Focus]] does not specify a bonus type. Please explain what is meant in more detail here.
:What is "the blood draining ability"? Do you mean [[SRD:Vampire#Blood Drain]]?
:Please explain what is wrong with [[Blood Knight (3.5e Prestige Class)#Blood-Drinking Blade|blood-drinking blade]], as just saying it does not work how it is worded means nothing. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 15:32, 16 January 2011 (MST)

::Here, I'll try to help point out some errors. Let's begin!
::*''An order of nongood knights dedicated to the service of vampirekind.''
::That is your first "sentence". I don't even know. That's like just a sentence's predicate, not a full sentence.
::*''Many can be found in the service of vampires.''
::That's sentence three. I don't know about you, but I kinda wish there was more of a thought there. Consider merging with with sentence two?
::*''By consuming the blood of fallen creatures, they can harness a variety of unholy powers to augment their martial abilities.''
::This is the last sentence of the first paragraph. At this point I'll mention that you've not used the name "blood knight" anywhere in the first paragraph.
::I don't have the energy to go through the rest of the page, but someone should. There are numerous errors, or points that, although grammatically correct, are inelegantly structured. I support this rating's intent, but would probably give it an even <s>'''3/5 for Wording'''</s>. --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 18:41, 16 January 2011 (MST)

:::I fixed the first sentence. Also, to note, this is not my class. I just took the idea and continued modifying it within the initial framework (of course, though, I think it is a great idea). "More of a thought" means what exactly? And I am pretty sure the rest of the wording is much better then the initial wording. Reading through the rest I cannot find any glaring mistakes. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:03, 16 January 2011 (MST)

::::"At 5th level, as a free action a blood knight spends 1 blood point and gains fast healing 2 for 5 rounds" would read better as "At 5th level, a blood knight may spend 1 blood point, as a free action, and gain fast healing 2 for 5 rounds". It took me about 15 seconds to find this error. I just picked a random line and start looking; I didn't check for other errors, but I'm willing to bet I could find at least another 10 mistakes. --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 21:07, 16 January 2011 (MST)

:::::I got this mistake (sorry, I did not notice how it was worded elsewhere). --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 21:47, 16 January 2011 (MST)

::::::There are also instances on the page where blood knight is hyphenated. That's the name of the class, it should be consistent. That is just another example of the wording problems in this article. --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 23:43, 16 January 2011 (MST)

:::::::I thought I got that when I read through for grammatical problems. I guess I never ended up fixing it. To make this rating applicable more then a hyphenation is needed as a problem or an example. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:41, 17 January 2011 (MST)

::::::::Ok, fine, here's another awkward sentence: "Instead of being immediately destroyed at 0 hit points or less his blood points enable him to survive and at the start of his turn while dying, as long as he has a blood point to spend he is considered disabled for that round costing 1 blood point." How many more sentences do you want me to bring up before we can agree that the entire article needs work? --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 14:11, 17 January 2011 (MST)

:::::::::How is that awkward? It defines a very interesting mechanic, and comes from pages like [[SRD:Undead Type]] (partly). You need reasons. You can't just say "I can't read this", because to be honest reading is subjective. I asked someone (so far, I may ask others) who really enjoys reading to read this (well, not the class features just the flavor from campaign information down) and he said it's pretty good and gave some advice for grammatical changes. I'm mentioning this because, as it is harder to look over what oneself does, having another opinion is good and I did that. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 15:57, 17 January 2011 (MST)

::::::::::Ok, maybe you're just not the best person to read this if you can't see how awkward these sentences are. --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 17:03, 17 January 2011 (MST)

:::::::::::Started working on the worst parts. Does it read through better now in your opinion? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 17:53, 17 January 2011 (MST)

<s>'''[[Help:Standards and Formatting (DnD Guideline)|Formatting]] - 3.5/5'''</s> I give this class a 3.5 out of 5 because in part of the reasons detailed above, but also because the special abilities could be listed in a bulleted format or something similarly more presentable, all the fluff is just massive walls of text, and honestly there's ''waaaaaaaaay'' too many inter-wiki links. Encounters to 3.5e Quests? Trying way too freaking hard.

:I removed this rating for the following reasons. A bulleted list is not 'correct'. See also something like the [[SRD:Hierophant|hierophant]]. The fluff is covering the areas which prestige classes should have. The interwiki links is one per paragraph maximum for each link, the correct amount. And [[3.5e Quests]] has encounters present. Also, which issues relate to formatting above? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 15:32, 16 January 2011 (MST)

::As far as issues he mentioned to formatting above, he meant the spelling, grammatical, and punctuation errors that are throughout the article. As for the list style for special abilities, I would have to agree, bullets are better. I know hierophant doesn't use bullets, but that doesn't change my opinion. I think bullets make it more clear. If nothing else, indent them one tab from the rest of class abilities. And yeah, I agree about inter-wiki links. There are too many. You don't have to link to everything possible. Take some discretion and remove a bunch of them (for example, you don't have to link to the page for ''DC''). 3.5/5 seems fine to me (except I thought you could only rate in whole numbers, so I'd give it a <s>'''3/5 for Formatting'''</s>). --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 18:41, 16 January 2011 (MST)

:::Bullets are not correct. Indentation is not correct. Italics are correct. Each term in a parapgraph (which is specific) should be linked once (as discussed on spider rider I think, or the evaluational one). Formatting is not related to the things you mention above. This is why these ratings cannot be considered. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:03, 16 January 2011 (MST)

::::Ok, my mistake about the grammar errors. I think I've addressed them in wording at this point, so we can move past those. I don't know who decided that every term should be linked the first time it appears in a paragraph, but it's not listed on any help/formatting page I've ever seen. Furthermore, it's a terrible idea. There is no reason to be linking to 3.5e homebrew campaign settings when you say the word setting. You even have links to the the "blood knight" on the page. I don't mean subsections like "blood knight/weaknesses", but like the actual page "blood knight". Why? --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 21:07, 16 January 2011 (MST)

:::::"Blood knight" is linked as a transclusion. I agree it's annoying, but what can be done about it?
:::::Wikipedia says "As a rule of thumb, link on first reference only." and "In general, link only the first occurrence of an item. There are exceptions to this guideline, including... where the later occurrence is a long way from the first." I guess the linking used is a standardization of that. (per paragraph, and one per paragraph). --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 21:47, 16 January 2011 (MST)

::::::What can be done about transclusions? Well, you could remove the link for starters. That would solve the problem. I understand that Wikipedia has guidelines about linking the first occurrence of a word on a page. I think we should have different ones. Wikipedia's policies exist because they are an encyclopedia about the know world, we just talk about D&D. Anyone reading the article should know what HD means, or what a saving throw is, so these links don't need to exist. You have 6 instances of the word "setting" linking to the homebrew section about campaign settings on this page. That's ridiculous. You don't need any! --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 23:43, 16 January 2011 (MST)

:::::::The entire SRD has such links. It's been so implemented for a long time now, and I don't think just because this article links to setting and one "knows" what a setting is means it should be changed. This concern of yours should be brought up on [[SRD Talk:System Reference Document]], not here, as that is much more applicable. This page will follow such standards, of course. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:41, 17 January 2011 (MST)

::::::::Ok, so let's pretend a person reading this page knows nothing about anything D&D related. They come across the word "HD" and are confused. It is the first instance of HD in the article. We link that. Three lines later, on a different paragraph they come across "HD" again. They've not forgotten what it means, there is no need to link that again. Now let's consider "setting". The word setting is not D&D specific. Anyone with a 4th grade education knows what a setting is. Furthermore, the link for "Setting" doesn't link to a definition, but rather a list of homemade settings, the bulk of which are incomplete. I don't see anywhere that this has been discussed on the SRD page you linked, but I'll add a new section with my complaints. --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 14:11, 17 January 2011 (MST)

:::::::::Ya, potentially, but see also pages like [[SRD:Undead Type]] (for example). What that discussion decides, will dictate pages like this too of course. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 15:57, 17 January 2011 (MST)

::::::::::Ok, so you're falling into the "other crap exists" fallacy. Just because there are pages that are bad, that doesn't mean this page isn't so bad. --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 17:03, 17 January 2011 (MST)

:::::::::::But the entire SRD uses links to such an extent... --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 17:53, 17 January 2011 (MST)

::::::::::::Kinda just furthering my point here... --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 18:58, 17 January 2011 (MST)

<s>'''Flavor - 2/5'''</s> I give this class a 2 out of 5 because it's boring. It's a vampire knight. Whoopdee friggin' doo. No need to beat me over the head with that information. Bland, stereotypical abilities with even blander fluff. --[[Special:Contributions/72.74.255.134|72.74.255.134]] 14:42, 16 January 2011 (MST)

:The method is unique. Maybe boring, but others would say the [[SRD:Vampire|vampire]] is boring. The vampires possible boredom would then be applicable, and that is SRD through things like "blanket vampire weaknesses" (and more). --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 15:32, 16 January 2011 (MST)

::I think his point is there isn't anything dramatically new and interesting in this class. I made that point earlier. I think you should try to move past the "I want to suck your blood!" and get some interesting class features that are more flavorful. New and unique. I agree with him completely, but I probably would have given a <s>'''3/5 for Flavor'''</s> just because it's got something cohesive. --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 18:41, 16 January 2011 (MST)

:::Vampires such blood. This is why, without some ideas, this point cannot be regarded as the mechanic itself it unique. This is not because it is terribly flavorful per se, but because the flavor is flavor (keep in mind if one likes it or not cannot be the reason) especially as the mechanic is unique. Of course some input could help. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:03, 16 January 2011 (MST)

::::So you're saying the only time I can give something a low rating is when I tell you exactly what to do to make it better? That's just asinine. I don't think some elaborate (and unfinished, and imperfect) mechanic can warrant a 5/5 on flavor, especially when almost every ability is some color by numbers fill in the blank with generic SRD SLA. You need actual flavor! There exists a wealth of folklore and mythology associated with vampires, and you have got to be able to find something better than "they drink blood and do magic stuffs" if you want to be a featured article, in my mind. So here's what gonna happen. I'm going to rate this a '''3/5 for Flavor''' and I'm going to tell the author or adopter to create more flavorful class abilities. --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 21:07, 16 January 2011 (MST)

:::::I'm just saying that you can't say this "has no flavor because it's like the vampire" (as it also has unique aspects). Do things have to be considered outside of the SRD for flavor purposes? Why, right (it's a question)? What flavor advice do you have, I guess I am asking (folklore, etc). --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 21:47, 16 January 2011 (MST)

::::::I wasn't saying this has not flavor because it's like the vampire, I was saying you should include things that the normal vampire doesn't have. I've said it before, on this and other talk pages: "If you want to write a cool flavorful prestige or base class, it should have unique elements written specifically for the class, to make it more exciting". I'm just throwing out ideas, but how about you do something making use of the concept of Arithmomania, or rivalry with werewolves, or poison gas breath, or the ability to move between shadows, or the ability to ''unhallow'' an area, or speaking with animals? Why not make some special abilities have depth, by saying things like "If the blood knight has taken X as a special ability at a previous level, they may take Y as an ability"? Here's an example: "If a blood knight has taken gaseous form at a previous level, he may take ''noxious form'' as a special ability. Noxious form enables him to deal 1 point of constitution damage to any creature who begins or ends their turn in a square occupied by the blood knight's gaseous form". That's something I thought up in about 30 seconds, so it's not great or anything, but do you understand my point? May a blood knight more than just a vampire. --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 23:43, 16 January 2011 (MST)

:::::::To note, when I said "Do things have to be considered outside of the SRD for flavor purposes? Why, right (it's a question)?" I meant my contributions.
:::::::{{quote|
:::::::It's a conglomerate of ideas found in several works. I borrowed elements from Warhammer Fantasy Battle Vampire Count Blood Knights, the World of Darkness-based Vampire: The Masquerade, and the "Blood" talent tree of World of Warcraft Death Knights.
:::::::|orig=[[#Rating|Rating]] |src=[[User:Dude Bob|Dude Bob]] 19:02, 3 July 2010 (UTC)}}
:::::::I don't like the idea of Arithmomania since it means they have an insanity aspect, and I do not think that fits vampires well.
:::::::Rivalry between werewolves is werewolf related... I am confused here.
:::::::Poison gas breath reminds me of dragons. I am confused here.
:::::::Gaseous form is an ability to move between shadows.
:::::::Unhallowing an area is stupid, since it makes some vampire abilities not function (and is so not vampire related).
:::::::Speaking with animals... Dunno, they command them. Should they also interact with them? Seems more like a druid. Help me out here please.
:::::::I do like the idea of noxious form (however no need to have it relate to gaseous form, as he could use it as a vampire too or maybe a spell, dunno). Go for it I say. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:41, 17 January 2011 (MST)

::::::::I don't know what contributions you made, and what ones were there originally, and I don't care to look it up (it doesn't matter, I'm reviewing what is there now). And for the record, every trait/ability there has roots in another vampire canon. Some are obvious (arithmomania is parodied by "Count von Count" on Sesame Street, but can be found in other works more seriously), some are more recent (rivalry with werewolves is a the central plot of the Underworld series, starring the ever beautiful Kate Beckinsale, and can also be seen in the Twilight movie series, starring the less amazing, Kristen Stewart). There is a great big list of vampire traits and abilities on Wikipedia. Maybe you could look there for more ideas to increase flavor. As for the noxious form, you're missing my point. If you make some special abilities pre-reqs for others, you can create stronger abilities (and therefore more useful at higher levels). If you don't relate it to gaseous form, he'd just take noxious form ability, and not the gaseous form. --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 14:11, 17 January 2011 (MST)

:::::::::The contributions I made (I find) convey the same idea with better mechanics, more balance, or more explanation (as campaign information for example). The only major changes I made, flavor-wise, is ([http://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Blood_Knight_%283.5e_Prestige_Class%29&oldid=495329]) Presence of Fear to Bestow Curse, more to Bat Form, and Hellfire Blast to Contagion. Mechanical changes, such as the special abilities to spells (and others) of the (same) effect, of course happened for balance reasons.
:::::::::So, am I saying is that what you are reviewing is:
:::::::::{{quote|
:::::::::It's a conglomerate of ideas found in several works. I borrowed elements from Warhammer Fantasy Battle Vampire Count Blood Knights, the World of Darkness-based Vampire: The Masquerade, and the "Blood" talent tree of World of Warcraft Death Knights.
:::::::::|orig=[[#Rating|Rating]] |src=[[User:Dude Bob|Dude Bob]] 19:02, 3 July 2010 (UTC)}}
:::::::::I don't do much with entertainment (I find it a waste of my time for the most part) and I have no idea what any of the things you mentioned above are.
:::::::::And I cannot trust Wikipedia for research.
:::::::::Building on other abilities is an idea, (like the [[SRD:Hierophant]]). Of course I wish one could see a direct reference to the [[SRD:Vampire|vampire]], otherwise how is one to know? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 15:57, 17 January 2011 (MST)

::::::::::Well, there are tons of modern examples of vampires in entertainment. You could watch/read/play some of the movies/books/games that have vampires, or check out Wikipedia. If you don't want to trust Wikipedia for research, then I'd recommend you do some independent research. We're writing class features, not a research paper; Wikipedia should be fine. --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 17:03, 17 January 2011 (MST)

:::::::::::Of course feel free to implement something. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 17:53, 17 January 2011 (MST)

== Rating ==

<s>'''Power - 3/5'''</s> I give this class a 3 out of 5 because 1) the powering of the abilities isn't very consistent. Who's choosing False Life, Armoring of Death or Offspring of the Night over Displacement and Charm Animal? Also, 2) the class runs into itself a bit mechanically, with the result that it's a bit underpowered. It's fighting-focused, but you also have to splash a casting class to meet the requirements (costing a BAB or so). Then you get better spell-like abilities-- much better than the spells you had. The level of cleric or arcanist becomes largely a dead level, and should probably be removed in favor of some condition like knowing a vampire. {{Unsigned|71.62.233.33|21:12, 30 January 2011 (UTC)}}

:The balance is based off the [[SRD:Arcane Archer|arcane archer's]] enhance arrow. See also [[Talk:Blood Knight (3.5e Prestige Class)#Balance and Wording|Balance and Wording]] above and the table below.
:I removed the splash class; that makes sense. Instead of replacing it for knowing a vampire, I replaced it with another BAB.
:What's the "''bit underpowered''" aspect you mentioned? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 15:12, 30 January 2011 (MST)

<s>'''Wording - 4/5'''</s> I give this class a 4 out of 5 because there are a few things I had to read twice. The first body paragraph for Special Ability could be better. Also, at least one ability has a +1 1/2 progression per level, which should almost certainly be changed for the sake of clarity. {{Unsigned|71.62.233.33|21:12, 30 January 2011 (UTC)}}

:It is 1{{1/2}} for a reason. I tried to make it as close to one with enhance arrow as possible. See the [[SRD:Arcane Archer|arcane archer]] for the AC (& attack bonus) values.
:{| class="{{d20}}"
! ECL !! Level !! BAB !! Avg. Damage (<math>\approx \!\,</math>) !! Avg. Damage with Enhance Arrow !! Difference !! Armoring of Death's Result
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| 6 || 1 || +6/+1 || 12 || 14 || 2 || 1
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| 7 || 2 || +7/+2 || 12 || 14 || 2 || 3
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| 8 || 3 || +8/+3 || 12 || 16 || 4 || 4
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| 9 || 4 || +9/+4 || 12 || 16 || 4 || 6
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| 10 || 5 || +10/+5 || 12 || 18 || 6 || 7
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| 11 || 6 || +11/+6/+1 || 18.5 || 27.5 || 9 || 9
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| 12 || 7 || +12/+7/+2 || 18.5 || 30.5 || 12 || 10
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| 13 || 8 || +13/+8/+3 || 18.5 || 30.5 || 12 || 12
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| 14 || 9 || +14/+9/+4 || 18.5 || 33.5 || 15 || 13
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| 15 || 10 || +15/+10/+5 || 18.5 || 33.5 || 15 || 15
|}
:And some specific wording problems with that paragraph would be helpful. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 15:12, 30 January 2011 (MST)

'''[[Help:Standards and Formatting (DnD Guideline)|Formatting]] - 5/5''' Looks good. {{Unsigned|71.62.233.33|21:12, 30 January 2011 (UTC)}}

<s>'''Flavor - 4/5'''</s> I give this class a 4 out of 5 because The idea's good, but has a few too many stipulations. The most obvious to me is the 8 ranks of Ride required to get in, when the class has nothing to do with riding at all: in fact, given how most mounts react to vampires and other undead, having a mount may be anti-synergistic for some Blood Knights. {{Unsigned|71.62.233.33|21:12, 30 January 2011 (UTC)}}

:Makes sense. I changed that stipulation for [[SRD:Handle Animal Skill|Handle Animal]] 6 ranks. Thoughts? Which other stipulations? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 15:12, 30 January 2011 (MST)

== Special Ability Wording ==

"''He has a maximum number of blood points equal to 0.5 ½ his blood knight levels + blood knight's Cha modifier (if any), but if he has 0 blood points, consider it 1 anyway.''"

The wording in the quoted passage above permits a first level Blood Knight to have negative blood points--and there is no class requirement that would bar a character with a negative charisma modifier from taking the class.
[[Special:Contributions/98.226.241.148|98.226.241.148]] 14:59, 1 February 2011 (MST)

:I changed it to "minimum 1". Thanks for mentioning that. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 17:02, 1 February 2011 (MST)

== Picture ==

It's pretty poor form to rip copyrighted pictures from Artists website that work in the same industry you are making homebrew content for. The other thing that bothers me, is that this article was able to make it to the front page of dandwiki while containing said picture. At least give a trackback to the artist, http://www.jaestudio.com/portfolio-books2.htm - Justin Engle - and ask him if it's ok to use his work on the website. Shameless ripping of art like this is bad form - [[User:Sleaker|Sleaker]] 21:20, 3 March 2011 (MST)

:I never knew the situation of the image. I assumed it was uploaded with the correct intentions. I changed the image in any case. Thoughts on the image now? Is that website, which seems to have information regarding the old images history, pretty trustworthy? E.g. would you say it's correct to delete the image as that website has it so? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:14, 3 March 2011 (MST)

::Not sure what you are asking. The page I linked with the Original Picture is the actual artists gallery. I'm not sure where you got the new picture, but the best idea is to always give a back-link for where it was obtained and to attribute an author. If the author is unknown then the file description should be unknown author or a link to where it was obtained. None of this uploading of random images that people didn't create themselves because they think the image is cool and matches their concept. The Wiki operates under a GNU and people don't have rights uploading artists content here, just my 2 cents. - [[User:Sleaker|Sleaker]] 14:01, 4 March 2011 (MST)

Talk:Blood Knight (3.5e Prestige Class)

2011-03-04T04:20:09Z

Sleaker: /* Picture */

Talk:Blood Knight (3.5e Prestige Class)

2011-03-04T04:18:57Z

Sleaker: /* Picture */ new section

Order Initiate (3.5e Class)

2010-06-07T14:55:45Z

Sleaker: /* Class Features */

Order Initiate (3.5e Class)

2010-04-27T15:38:09Z

Sleaker:

Order Initiate (3.5e Class)

2010-04-27T15:37:17Z

Sleaker: /* Class Features */

{{stub|Missing a few areas (see the preload).}}
__NOTOC__
{{DnD Base Class Infobox
|img=
|imgloc=
|imgsize=
|imgcaption=
|rating_power=
|raters_power=
|rating_wording=
|raters_wording=
|rating_formatting=
|raters_formatting=
|rating_flavor=
|raters_flavor=
|authors=Sleaker
|datecreated=3-15-9
|status=Complete
|editing=Formatting Only
|type=Combat Focused, Moderate Spellcasting
|desc=The Order Initiate gains supernatural power from attuning to cora stones. Rather than using the latent power for spells or invocation, he forces the stones power into boosting his physical prowess.
}}
{{:Cora (DnD Campaign Setting)/Menu}}

==Order Initiate==

The Order Initiate gains supernatural power from attuning to cora stones. Rather than using the latent power for spells or invocation, he forces the stones power into boosting his physical prowess.

Because the class is designed for use with E8 it only has 8 levels of progression.

'''Abilities:''' [[Wisdom]] is important for an order initiate as it determines what level of boosts they can learn, and how long their boosts last. [[Dexterity]] is important as it allows an order initiate to engage in melee and ranged attacks.

'''Races:''' Any.

'''Alignment:''' Any, though order initiates are more often of Lawful alignments.

'''Starting Gold:''' 6d4×10 gp (150 gp).

'''[[SRD:Race Descriptions#Starting Age|Starting Age]]:''' As [[rogue]]

{| class="{{d20}}"
|+
<div>{{#anc:Table: The Order Initiate}}</div>
Hit Die: d8
|-
! rowspan="2" | Level
! rowspan="2" | [[BAB|Base Attack Bonus]]
! colspan="3" | [[SRD:Saving Throw|Saving Throw]]s
! rowspan="2" | Special
! colspan="3" | [[#Boosts|Boosts Prepared]]
|-
! [[SRD:Saving Throw#Fortitude|Fort]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Reflex|Ref]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Will|Will]]
! 1st || 2nd || 3rd
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
|1st|| class="left" | +1 || +2 || +2 || +0
| class="left" | [[#Stone Attunement|Stone Attunement (first, ability)]], [[#Single Boost|Single Boost]]
| 2 || — || —
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
|2nd|| class="left" | +2 || +3 || +2 || +0
| class="left" | [[#Weapon Finesse|Weapon Finesse]]
| 2 || — || —
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
|3rd|| class="left" | +3 || +3 || +3 || +1
| class="left" |
| 3 || 1 || —
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
|4th||class="left" | +4 || +4 || +4 || +1
| class="left" | [[#Bonus Feat|Bonus Feat]]
| 3 || 1 || —
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
|5th||class="left" | +5 || +4 || +4 || +1
| class="left" | [[#Double Boost|Double Boost]]
| 3 || 2 || —
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
|6th||class="left" | +6/+1 || +5 || +5 || +2
| class="left" |
| 4 || 2 || 1
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
|7th||class="left" | +7/+2 || +5 || +5 || +2
| class="left" |
| 4 || 2 || 1
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
|8th||class="left" | +8/+3 || +6 || +6 || +2
| class="left" | [[#Bonus Feat|Bonus Feat]]
| 4 || 3 || 2
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| colspan="12" class="skill" |
'''Class Skills (4 + [[SRD:Intelligence|Int]] modifier per level, ×4 at 1st level)''' 
[[Craft]] ([[Int]]), [[Hide]] ([[Dex]]), [[Knowledge]] (Any, taken individually) ([[Int]]), [[Listen]] ([[Wis]]), [[Move Silently]] ([[Dex]]), [[Profession]] ([[Int]]), [[Search]] ([[Int]]), [[Spot]] ([[Wis]]), [[Tumble]] ([[Dex]]).
|}

====Class Features====

All of the following are class features of the Order Initiate.

'''Weapon and Armor Proficiency:''' The Order Initiate is proficient with [[SRD:Armor Proficiency (Light)|light]], [[SRD:Armor Proficiency (Medium)|medium]], and shields (except tower shields). An order initiate is also proficient with [[UA:Weapon Group (Axes)|Axes]], [[UA:Weapon Group (Bows)|Bows]], [[UA:Weapon Group (Light Blades)|Light Blades]], [[UA:Weapon Group (Heavy Blades)|Heavy Blades]], [[UA:Weapon Group (Maces and Clubs)|Maces and Clubs]], and [[UA:Weapon Group (Picks and Hammers)|Picks and Hammers]].

'''{{#anc:Boosts}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Supernatural|Su]]):''' An order initiate gains access to [[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Supernatural|supernatural abilities]] known as boosts, which enhance and empower him through the use of cora stones. An order initiate knows all of the boosts listed on the [[3.5e Boosts|order initiate boosts]] table. An order initiate may prepare a limited number of boosts per day as shown on the table above; to prepare a boost the order initiate must get a good nights sleep and spend an hour of meditation focusing on the boosts which he will use throughout the day. To use a boost an order initiate muse have a [[wisdom]] score of at least 10 + the boosts level, and be he must attuned to a cora stone. The DC of a boost, if it has one, is 10 + the boosts level + [[Wis]] modifier. The order initiate may use any of his prepared boosts as a swift action that does not provoke attack of opportunity; unless noted otherwise in the boosts description. An immediate boost lasts until the beginning of your next turn, while a standard boost lasts for 1 + [[Wisdom]] modifier rounds. You may remove the effects of a boost at any time as a free action. After a boost has been used, you may not use it again until 5 rounds after it's effect has ended. An order initiate chooses his known boosts from the list of [[3.5e Boosts|order initiate boosts]].

''{{#anc:Single Boost}}:'' At 1st level an order initiate may only have one standard boost active at a time.

''{{#anc:Double Boost}}:'' At 5th level an order initiate may have two standard boosts active at a time.

'''{{#anc:Stone Attunement}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' You gain the ability to attune to a Cora Stone, this acts as a focus for all of the boosts you know. Attuning to a Cora stone takes 2 hours of meditation without interruption, once you are attuned to a stone you stay attuned to it until it is taken more than 1 mile from your current location, or you go without it for 8 hours. You may remove the attunement from a cora stone by meditating for 1 hour. You may never attune to a stone that someone is already attuned to. Each color of stone grants an additional ability.

'''Cora Stone Ability ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Supernatural|Su]]):''' At 1st level you also gain the associated ability of any cora stune you are attuned to.

'''Black''' — Whenever you hit a living creature you deal an addition 1 damage per class level. You gain this damage as temporary hit points. You can only gain up to your [[Constitution]] score worth of temporary hit points this way. Temporary hit points gained in this way last for 1 hour. 
''' Blue''' — Weapons you wield deal an additional 1d6 points of [[Electricity Effect|electricity]] damage for every 4 class levels. 
'''Brown''' — Weapons you wield deal an additional 1d6 points of [[Acid Effect|acid]] damage for every 4 class levels. 
'''Clear''' — Weapons you wield deal an additional 1d6 points of [[Sonic Effect|sonic]] damage for every 4 class levels. 
'''Gray''' — You gain the sneak attack ability which deals an extra 1d6 points of damage for every 2 class levels. 
'''Green''' — You gain DR 1/- for every 2 class levels. 
'''Red''' — Weapons you wield deal an additional 1d6 points of [[Fire Effect|fire]] damage for every 4 class levels. 
'''Yellow''' — Whenever you successfully hit a creature with an attack you heal 1 HP/2 levels. You may only gain the effects of this ability once per round for each weapon you wield. 
'''White''' — Weapons you wield deal an additional 1d6 points of [[Cold Effect|cold]] damage for every 4 class levels.

'''{{#anc:[[Weapon Finesse]]}}:''' At 2nd level, an order initiate gains [[Weapon Finesse]] as a bonus feat.

'''{{#anc:Bonus Feat}}:''' At 4th level and 8th level the order initiate gains a bonus feat from the list of fighter bonus feats.

==== [[Forestfolk (Cora Race)|Forestfolk]] Order Initiate Starting Package ====

'''Weapons:''' Rapier.

'''Skill Selection:''' Pick a number of skills equal to 4 + [[Int]] modifier.

{| class="{{d20}}"
|-
! class="left" | Skill || Ranks || Ability || Armor Check Penalty
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}
| class="left" | [[Hide]] || 4 || [[Dex]] || —
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| class="left" | [[Craft]] || 4 || [[Int]] || —
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| class="left" | [[Knowledge]] || 4 || [[Int]] || —
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| class="left" | [[Spot]] || 4 || [[Wis]] || —
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"
| class="left" | [[Move Silently]] || 4 || [[Dex]] || —
|}

'''Feat:''' Dodge.

'''Gold:''' 6d4 gold.

==== Playing an Order Initiate ====

'''Religion:''' Order Initiates often revere Tigron the god of war, many of them are a part of the [[Organizations (Cora Supplement)#Orders|Order of the Horn]], which is the main policing force in Cora.

'''Other Classes:''' Order Initiates often feel superior to characters of other classes, thinking that their abilities with a sword are unmatched.

'''Combat:''' Order Initiates are seen at the flanks of a battle, often attempting to subvert the enemies next action, or break their line.

----
{{DnD Base Classes Breadcrumb}} 
{{Cora Footer}}
[[Category:DnD]]
[[Category:3.5e]]
[[Category:User]]
[[Category:Class]]
[[Category:Base Class]]
[[Category:Combat-Focused]]

Talk:Orion (3.5e Campaign Setting)

2010-04-10T02:27:41Z

Sleaker:

On all of the side bars, on the supplement pages, they say Corean Pantheon, you must change it or ask for the appropriate permission before using them. --[[User:Grim914|Grim914]] 03:41, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

:Oh, sorry about that. I used the Cora campaign setting to figure out how to add that side bar, I guess I missed something. :)

:Anyways, it's fixed now, thanks for pointing it out.--[[User:Vrail|Vrail]] 13:03, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

::No problem. --[[User:Grim914|Grim914]] 03:02, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

== Level progression ==

This was discussed on the original E6 thread. It was suggested to just increase the amount of XP required for each level. The reason the idea was abandoned was because your players don't want to be left in stagnation. When you double all XP requirements it slows progression. If you are going to just dole out levels when you see fit rather than XP this is a moot point. but, if I was a player in your game I wouldn't like having to wait that long to just go up a level.
- [[User:Sleaker|Sleaker]] 02:26, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Orion (3.5e Campaign Setting)

2010-04-10T02:26:57Z

Sleaker: /* Level progression */ new section

User talk:Vrail

2010-04-03T18:08:11Z

Sleaker: /* Formatting */

== Welcome to D&D Wiki! ==

;Welcome!
Hello {{PAGENAME}}, and welcome to D&D Wiki. I hope you have been enjoying this site, and I hope you have been finding the information here on D&D Wiki useful. I am an admin (and, actually, the owner as well) here on D&D Wiki along with a couple other people who make up "The Face" of D&D Wiki. Everything relating to admins can be found [[Meta Pages#Administration|here]].
;Questions:
If you have any question about D&D Wiki, D&D, formatting on D&D Wiki, what day today is, or whatever, an admin will, many times, give a good answer. Please feel free to ask any admin any question ([http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=User_talk:Green_Dragon&action=edit&section=new ask me a question!]).
;Formatting
Formatting on D&D Wiki (or any wiki for that matter) can be very difficult, and if you need help a good place to start is [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Editing Help:Editing] on Wikipedia (or even their [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Introduction Introduction] page). This will explain the basic wiki formatting and should provide quite a few useful links that explain more specific areas of wiki formatting. Again, if you have any questions about formatting on D&D Wiki please ask them as, I imagine, anybody will be more than happy to help you get them answered.
;Community
A strong and welcoming community exists on D&D Wiki, and I am sure you will find it rather nice. Most discussions take place on content talk pages, however please feel free to walk into [[Special:TheTavern|The Tavern]] (our local chat room) and talk to some fellow D&D Wikians. Anyway, on D&D Wiki, possibly since discussions are never deleted, people try to be nice. This means please follow Wikipedia's guidelines on [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Civility Civility] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Etiquette Etiquette] when discussing anything. Also, on a pretty different note, to ensure people know who posted what, please sign your name after a post with four tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>) or by clicking on the signature icon. [[Image:Signature_icon.png]] This will automatically produce your name and the date. Anyway, I hope you come to love the close-knit D&D Wiki community and welcome again, you are now a D&D Wikian. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 15:19, 12 April 2009 (MDT)

== E8 in Campaigns ==

Just a reminder before I answer your question, make sure you sign your posts with four tildes that way others can get back to you.

On the subject of campaigns and Epic 6/8. The whole idea of E6/8 is to limit character levels so that you stay within different playstyles. E6 and E8 put pressure on casters to not over-abuse their spells. And keep the players in the spot where they know that encounters are dangerous and could be fatal. As you approach other levels it becomes increasingly insignificant to limit level progression because players are already powerful enough and expanding into Prestige Classes to make it not mean much. At 11th level casters have access to 6th levels spells, and already have a huge repertoire of lower level spells that can easily end encounters. The players have gotten a good deal of magic equipment and can continue to gain that easily. This altogether defeats the purpose of limiting levels. Most people that I've seen have used E6, E8 or E10. Generally you don't want to stop at an odd level as prepared casters have an unfair advantage over spontaneous casters. - [[User:Sleaker|Sleaker]] 02:06, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

== Formatting ==

There is a formatting preload to do all the formatting for you somewhere. lemme dig it up real quick.

Found them. [[Create_New_Campaign_Setting]] by Valentine. He did a very good job, and I used his with minor adjustments.

- [[User:Sleaker|Sleaker]] 18:07, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

User talk:Vrail

2010-04-03T18:07:10Z

Sleaker: /* Formatting */ new section

== Welcome to D&D Wiki! ==

;Welcome!
Hello {{PAGENAME}}, and welcome to D&D Wiki. I hope you have been enjoying this site, and I hope you have been finding the information here on D&D Wiki useful. I am an admin (and, actually, the owner as well) here on D&D Wiki along with a couple other people who make up "The Face" of D&D Wiki. Everything relating to admins can be found [[Meta Pages#Administration|here]].
;Questions:
If you have any question about D&D Wiki, D&D, formatting on D&D Wiki, what day today is, or whatever, an admin will, many times, give a good answer. Please feel free to ask any admin any question ([http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=User_talk:Green_Dragon&action=edit&section=new ask me a question!]).
;Formatting
Formatting on D&D Wiki (or any wiki for that matter) can be very difficult, and if you need help a good place to start is [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Editing Help:Editing] on Wikipedia (or even their [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Introduction Introduction] page). This will explain the basic wiki formatting and should provide quite a few useful links that explain more specific areas of wiki formatting. Again, if you have any questions about formatting on D&D Wiki please ask them as, I imagine, anybody will be more than happy to help you get them answered.
;Community
A strong and welcoming community exists on D&D Wiki, and I am sure you will find it rather nice. Most discussions take place on content talk pages, however please feel free to walk into [[Special:TheTavern|The Tavern]] (our local chat room) and talk to some fellow D&D Wikians. Anyway, on D&D Wiki, possibly since discussions are never deleted, people try to be nice. This means please follow Wikipedia's guidelines on [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Civility Civility] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Etiquette Etiquette] when discussing anything. Also, on a pretty different note, to ensure people know who posted what, please sign your name after a post with four tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>) or by clicking on the signature icon. [[Image:Signature_icon.png]] This will automatically produce your name and the date. Anyway, I hope you come to love the close-knit D&D Wiki community and welcome again, you are now a D&D Wikian. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 15:19, 12 April 2009 (MDT)

== E8 in Campaigns ==

Just a reminder before I answer your question, make sure you sign your posts with four tildes that way others can get back to you.

On the subject of campaigns and Epic 6/8. The whole idea of E6/8 is to limit character levels so that you stay within different playstyles. E6 and E8 put pressure on casters to not over-abuse their spells. And keep the players in the spot where they know that encounters are dangerous and could be fatal. As you approach other levels it becomes increasingly insignificant to limit level progression because players are already powerful enough and expanding into Prestige Classes to make it not mean much. At 11th level casters have access to 6th levels spells, and already have a huge repertoire of lower level spells that can easily end encounters. The players have gotten a good deal of magic equipment and can continue to gain that easily. This altogether defeats the purpose of limiting levels. Most people that I've seen have used E6, E8 or E10. Generally you don't want to stop at an odd level as prepared casters have an unfair advantage over spontaneous casters. - [[User:Sleaker|Sleaker]] 02:06, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

== Formatting ==

There is a formatting preload to do all the formatting for you somewhere. lemme dig it up real quick.

Found them. [[Create_Alternative_New_Campaign_Setting]] by Valentine. He did a very good job, and I used his with minor adjustments.

- [[User:Sleaker|Sleaker]] 18:07, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

User talk:Vrail

2010-04-02T02:06:54Z

Sleaker: /* E8 in Campaigns */ new section

User talk:Sleaker

2010-03-01T11:07:29Z

Sleaker:

User talk:Sleaker

2010-03-01T11:07:21Z

Sleaker:

}}== Welcome to D&D Wiki! ==

;Welcome!
Hello {{PAGENAME}}, and welcome to D&D Wiki. I hope you have been enjoying this site, and I hope you have been finding the information here on D&D Wiki useful. I am an admin (and, actually, the owner as well) here on D&D Wiki along with a couple other people who make up "The Face" of D&D Wiki. Everything relating to admins can be found [[Meta Pages#Administration|here]]. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:42, 17 January 2009 (MST)

User talk:Blue Dragon

2010-01-04T23:00:17Z

Sleaker: /* DLPC */ new section

{{Archives
|label1= Archive 1 (Discussions 1 – 30)
|label2= Archive 2 (Discussions 31 – 60)
|label3= Archive 3 (Discussions 61 – 90)
|label4= Archive 4 (Discussions 91 – 159)
}}

== MoI ==

{{Messages of Interest|messages=
}}

i can't rate dragonblooded!

==Media Wiki Update==
Are there any particular coding differences we should be aware of with the new update?  [[User:Hooper|''' Hooper ''']][[User talk:Hooper|  talk  ]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|  contribs  ]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|  email  ]] 18:44, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

:Not that I'm aware of yet. A few things still haven't been worked out yet, but overall coding should remain [roughly] the same. — [[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] ([[User_talk:Blue Dragon|talk]]) 04:56, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

== serious lag, and errors when searching. ==

Since D&D wiki has updated to using sphinx to search, I have experienced repeated erors in searches. It said to report any problems at the top of the page, so that's what I am doing.

:Can you please let me know what kind of errors you are experiencing? Are you not happy with the relevancy of the searches or are there frequent technical errors? — [[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] ([[User_talk:Blue Dragon|talk]]) 04:54, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

==URL==
Whenever I try to go to Dandwiki.com through my URL I get an error page yet whenever I Google Dandwiki I can use the link to get here.

:Make sure you're typing in '''www.dandwiki.com''' and not www.dan'''d'''dwiki.com. The word "and" is actually not completed, so the url reads D an D wiki, not D and D wiki. You wrote it correctly here but just make sure you aren't doing that when typing it in.  [[User:Hooper|''' Hooper ''']][[User talk:Hooper|  talk  ]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|  contribs  ]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|  email  ]] 04:03, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

::Both url's work. We have both domains of dandwiki.com and danddwiki.com (it was kept at dandwiki.com for searching reasons). --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 04:38, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

:::This should be fixed now for the upgrade. Thanks for the bug report. — [[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] ([[User_talk:Blue Dragon|talk]]) 04:54, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

== Pooka 4e Race ==

Having just finished the write-up for the 4e Pooka race, I was unaware that there was already a 3.5e Pooka race here. Would it be at all possible to have the name of the new race changed to 'Pooka (4E Race)' instead of just 'Pooka', so as not to get them mixed up?

Incidentally, is there anything you feel could improve the write-up?

== DLPC ==

All of the 3.5e feats are incorrectly formatted due to DLPC no longer being a proper function.
On top of this It looks like properties aren't working properly either, but this could just be the dlpc not working. Either way there are some affected templates, and fixing the template will fix this issue, but most likely the DLPC can no longer be used for sorting. I'm unsure how this affects the rest of the site. - [[User:Sleaker|Sleaker]] 23:00, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

The Psionic Monk (3.5e Optimized Character Build)

2009-12-31T23:03:02Z

Sleaker:

== Introduction ==

This is an optimized build to show that the Monk class, is best when combined with Psionics, and taken sparingly.

== References ==

This build uses only 3.5 WoTC Sourcebooks and the SRD.
Sources used: Eberron Campaign Setting, Faiths of Eberron, Magic of Faerun, Complete Psionic, System Reference Document, Dungeon Masters Guide, Miniatures Handbook

== Game Rule Components ==

This build requires a Lawful alignment, and is best when used with a race that gives a bonus to mental attributes. I use a 28 point buy, though it looks quite similar using pretty much any point buy as you only need to focus on your mental attributes. This build attempts to abuse Metamorphosis and size adjustments as much as possible.

=== Progression ===

'''Starting Ability Scores (Before Racial Adjustments):'''
[[Strength]]: 8; [[Dexterity]]: 8; [[Constitution]]: 10; [[Intelligence]] 16; [[Wisdom]] 18; [[Charisma]] 8

'''Race:'''
Jungle Kobold: (-4 [[Strength]], +2 [[Dexterity]], -2 [[Intelligence]])
Venerable Age: ( +3 [[Intelligence]], +3 [[Wisdom]], +3 [[Charisma]] )

''Starting Racial Traits:''

* Small size: +1 bonus to Armor Class, +1 bonus on attack rolls, +4 bonus on Hide checks, -4 penalty on grapple checks, lifting and carrying limits ¾ those of Medium characters.
* A kobold’s base land speed is 30 feet.
* Darkvision out to 60 feet.
* Racial Skills: A kobold character has a +2 racial bonus on Craft (trapmaking), Profession (miner), and Search checks.
* Racial Feats: A kobold character gains feats according to its character class.
* +1 natural armor bonus.
* Special Qualities (see above): Light sensitivity.
 
{| class="d20" style="text-align: left;" {{#vardefine: odd|0}}
|- style="text-align: center;"
! rowspan="2" | ECL
! rowspan="2" | Class/HD/LA
! rowspan="2" | [[BAB|Base Attack Bonus]]
! colspan="3" | [[SRD:Saving Throw|Saving Throw]]s
! rowspan="2" | Feats
! rowspan="2" | Class Features
! rowspan="2" | Special
|- style="text-align: center;"
! [[SRD:Saving Throw#Fortitude|Fort]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Reflex|Ref]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Will|Will]]
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| 1st || Ardent 1 || +0 || +0 || +0 || +2 || Iron Will, Track, Dragonwrought, Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike) || Assume Psionic Mantle (Freedom, Conflict) || (2 Flaws), Prescience, Offense; Dimension Hop
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| 2nd || Ardent 1 / [[Monk]] 1 || +0 || +2 || +2 || +4 || Monastic Training (Slayer), Improved Unarmed Strike || Flurry of Blows, Monk AC, Monk Speed ||
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| 3rd || Ardent 1 / [[Monk]] 2 || +1 || +3 || +3 || +5 || Combat Reflexes, Tap Mantle (Energy) || Evasion ||
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| 4th || Ardent 2 / [[Monk]] 2 || +2 || +3 || +3 || +6 || || Assume Psionic Mantle (Magic) || +1 [[Wisdom]] Energy Ray
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| 5th || Ardent 3 / [[Monk]] 2 || +3 || +4 || +4 || +6 || || || Hustle
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| 6th || Ardent 4 / [[Monk]] 2 || +4 || +4 || +4 || +7 || Tap Mantle (Natural World) || || Chameleon
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| 7th || Ardent 4 / [[Monk]] 2 / [[SRD:Slayer|Slayer]] 1 || +5 || +4 || +4 || +9 || || Favored Enemy +2, enemy sense ||
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| 8th || Ardent 4 / [[Monk]] 2 / [[SRD:Slayer|Slayer]] 2 || +6/+1 || +4 || +4 || +10 || || Brain nausea || +1 [[Wisdom]], Primary Mantle (Energy), Energy Bolt
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| 9th || Ardent 4 / [[Monk]] 2 / [[SRD:Slayer|Slayer]] 3 || +7/+2 || +5 || +5 || +10 || Tashalatora || Lucid buffer || Dimension Slide
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| 10th || Ardent 4 / [[Monk]] 2 / [[SRD:Slayer|Slayer]] 4 || +8/+3 || +5 || +5 || +11 || || Favored Enemy +4 || Dispel Psionics
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| 11th || Ardent 4 / [[Monk]] 2 / [[SRD:Slayer|Slayer]] 5 || +9/+4 || +5 || +5 || +11 || || || Metamorphosis
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| 12th || Ardent 4 / [[Monk]] 2 / [[SRD:Slayer|Slayer]] 6 || +10/+5 || +6 || +6 || +12 || Practiced Manifester (Ardent) || Cerebral blind || +1 [[Wisdom]], Energy Wall
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| 13th || Ardent 4 /[[Monk]] 2 / [[SRD:Slayer|Slayer]] 7 || +11/+6/+1 || +6 || +6 || +12 || || Favored Enemy +6 || Teleport, Psionic
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| 14th || Ardent 4 / [[Monk]] 2 / [[SRD:Slayer|Slayer]] 8 || +12/+7/+2 || +6 || +6 || +13 || || Breach Power Resistance || Freedom of Movement
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| 15th || Ardent 4 / [[Monk]] 2 / [[SRD:Slayer|Slayer]] 9 || +13/+8/+3 || +7 || +7 || +13 || Expanded Knowledge (Expansion) || Cerebral Immunity || Metaphysical Claw
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| 16th || Ardent 4 / [[Monk]] 2 / [[SRD:Slayer|Slayer]] 10 || +14/+9/+4 || +7 || +7 || +14 || || Favored Enemy +8 || +1 [[Wisdom]], Energy Wave
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| 17th || Ardent 4 / [[Monk]] 2 / [[SRD:Slayer|Slayer]] 10 / Sanctified Mind 1 || +15/+10/+5 || +9 || +7 || +16 || || Partition Mind ||
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| 18th || Ardent 4 / [[Monk]] 2 / [[SRD:Slayer|Slayer]] 10 / Sanctified Mind 2 || +16/+11/+6/+1 || +10 || +7 || +17 || Improved Natural Attack (Unarmed Strike) || Cleansing Strike || Protection from Spells, Psionic
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| 19th || Ardent 4 / [[Monk]] 2 / [[SRD:Slayer|Slayer]] 10 / Sanctified Mind 3 || +17/+12/+7/+2 || +10 || +8 || +17 || || Disrupting Blow 1/day || Teleport, Psionic Greater
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| 20th || Ardent 4 / [[Monk]] 2 / [[SRD:Slayer|Slayer]] 10 / Sanctified Mind 4 || +18/+13/+8/+3 || +11 || +8 || +18 || || Hard to Hold || +1 [[Wisdom]], Earthquake, Psionic
|}

=== Items ===
{| cellpadding="2"
|-
|Belt of Magnificence || 200,000 GP
|-
|Monks Tattoo || 80,000 GP
|-
|Mighty Arms Graft || 1,000 GP
|-
|Battlefists +1 || 2600 GP
|-
|Ectoplasmic Fist Shard || 4,000 GP
|-
|Bracers of Armor +8 || 64,000 GP
|-
|Amulet of Natural Armor +5 || 50,000 GP
|-
|Ring of Protection +5 || 50,000 GP
|-
|Tome of Understanding +5 || 137,500 GP
|}

== Highlights ==

This build uses Metamorphosis and Expansion to shift into a Colossal sized Mountain Troll and the monks Flurry of Blows to unleash a devastating barrage of attacks. It has utility powers to move around the battlefield, and direct damage powers when smacking things just isn't good enough. Slayer levels eventually allow him to become immune to any Mind Affecting spells, and his High Wisdom gives him a very high AC. Full ranks in Use Magic Device allows the build to use pretty much anything that it might need.

== Side Notes ==

=== Limitations ===

Has a limited number of psionic powers, and they have very specific uses. Without the psionic powers this build is neutered.

=== DM Counters ===

Disallowing some of the items is a good way to start. Using dispel magic, or psionics to remove buffs will help combat the power.

=== Miscellaneous ===

Size Increases for Natural Weapons:
Battlefists (+1)
Ectoplasmic Fist Shard (+1)
Expansion (+2)
Metamorphosis (Huge Sized Troll)

Ending Fist Size: Colossal ++
----
{{3.5e Optimized Character Builds Breadcrumb}}
[[Category:DnD]]
[[Category:User]]
[[Category:Optimized Character Build]]
[[Category:WotC Rules Only]]

The Psionic Monk (3.5e Optimized Character Build)

2009-12-31T22:59:57Z

Sleaker:

== Introduction ==

This is an optimized build to show that the Monk class, is best when combined with Psionics, and taken sparingly.

== References ==

This build uses only 3.5 WoTC Sourcebooks and the SRD.
Sources used: Eberron Campaign Setting, Faiths of Eberron, Magic of Faerun, Complete Psionic, System Reference Document, Dungeon Masters Guide, Miniatures Handbook

== Game Rule Components ==

This build requires a Lawful alignment, and is best when used with a race that gives a bonus to mental attributes. I use a 28 point buy, though it looks quite similar using pretty much any point buy as you only need to focus on your mental attributes. This build attempts to abuse Metamorphosis and size adjustments as much as possible.

=== Progression ===

'''Starting Ability Scores (Before Racial Adjustments):'''
[[Strength]]: 8; [[Dexterity]]: 8; [[Constitution]]: 10; [[Intelligence]] 16; [[Wisdom]] 18; [[Charisma]] 8

'''Race:'''
Jungle Kobold: (-4 [[Strength]], +2 [[Dexterity]], -2 [[Intelligence]])
Venerable Age: ( +3 [[Intelligence]], +3 [[Wisdom]], +3 [[Charisma]] )

''Starting Racial Traits:''

* Small size: +1 bonus to Armor Class, +1 bonus on attack rolls, +4 bonus on Hide checks, -4 penalty on grapple checks, lifting and carrying limits ¾ those of Medium characters.
* A kobold’s base land speed is 30 feet.
* Darkvision out to 60 feet.
* Racial Skills: A kobold character has a +2 racial bonus on Craft (trapmaking), Profession (miner), and Search checks.
* Racial Feats: A kobold character gains feats according to its character class.
* +1 natural armor bonus.
* Special Qualities (see above): Light sensitivity.
 
{| class="d20" style="text-align: left;" {{#vardefine: odd|0}}
|- style="text-align: center;"
! rowspan="2" | ECL
! rowspan="2" | Class/HD/LA
! rowspan="2" | [[BAB|Base Attack Bonus]]
! colspan="3" | [[SRD:Saving Throw|Saving Throw]]s
! rowspan="2" | Feats
! rowspan="2" | Class Features
! rowspan="2" | Special
|- style="text-align: center;"
! [[SRD:Saving Throw#Fortitude|Fort]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Reflex|Ref]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Will|Will]]
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| 1st || Ardent 1 || +0 || +0 || +0 || +2 || Iron Will, Track, Dragonwrought, Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike) || Assume Psionic Mantle (Freedom, Conflict) || (2 Flaws), Prescience, Offense; Dimension Hop
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| 2nd || Ardent 1 / [[Monk]] 1 || +0 || +2 || +2 || +4 || Monastic Training (Slayer), Improved Unarmed Strike || Flurry of Blows, Monk AC, Monk Speed ||
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| 3rd || Ardent 1 / [[Monk]] 2 || +1 || +3 || +3 || +5 || Combat Reflexes, Tap Mantle (Energy) || Evasion ||
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| 4th || Ardent 2 / [[Monk]] 2 || +2 || +3 || +3 || +6 || || Assume Psionic Mantle (Magic) || +1 [[Wisdom]] Energy Ray
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| 5th || Ardent 3 / [[Monk]] 2 || +3 || +4 || +4 || +6 || || || Hustle
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| 6th || Ardent 4 / [[Monk]] 2 || +4 || +4 || +4 || +7 || Tap Mantle (Natural World) || || Chameleon
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| 7th || Ardent 4 / [[Monk]] 2 / [[SRD:Slayer|Slayer]] 1 || +5 || +4 || +4 || +9 || || Favored Enemy +2, enemy sense ||
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| 8th || Ardent 4 / [[Monk]] 2 / [[SRD:Slayer|Slayer]] 2 || +6/+1 || +4 || +4 || +10 || || Brain nausea || +1 [[Wisdom]], Primary Mantle (Energy), Energy Bolt
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| 9th || Ardent 4 / [[Monk]] 2 / [[SRD:Slayer|Slayer]] 3 || +7/+2 || +5 || +5 || +10 || Tashalatora || Lucid buffer || Dimension Slide
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| 10th || Ardent 4 / [[Monk]] 2 / [[SRD:Slayer|Slayer]] 4 || +8/+3 || +5 || +5 || +11 || || Favored Enemy +4 || Dispel Psionics
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| 11th || Ardent 4 / [[Monk]] 2 / [[SRD:Slayer|Slayer]] 5 || +9/+4 || +5 || +5 || +11 || || || Metamorphosis
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| 12th || Ardent 4 / [[Monk]] 2 / [[SRD:Slayer|Slayer]] 6 || +10/+5 || +6 || +6 || +12 || Practiced Manifester (Ardent) || Cerebral blind || +1 [[Wisdom]], Energy Wall
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| 13th || Ardent 4 /[[Monk]] 2 / [[SRD:Slayer|Slayer]] 7 || +11/+6/+1 || +6 || +6 || +12 || || Favored Enemy +6 || Teleport, Psionic
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| 14th || Ardent 4 / [[Monk]] 2 / [[SRD:Slayer|Slayer]] 8 || +12/+7/+2 || +6 || +6 || +13 || || Breach Power Resistance || Freedom of Movement
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| 15th || Ardent 4 / [[Monk]] 2 / [[SRD:Slayer|Slayer]] 9 || +13/+8/+3 || +7 || +7 || +13 || Expanded Knowledge (Expansion) || Cerebral Immunity || Metaphysical Claw
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| 16th || Ardent 4 / [[Monk]] 2 / [[SRD:Slayer|Slayer]] 10 || +14/+9/+4 || +7 || +7 || +14 || || Favored Enemy +8 || +1 [[Wisdom]], Energy Wave
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| 17th || Ardent 4 / [[Monk]] 2 / [[SRD:Slayer|Slayer]] 10 / Sanctified Mind 1 || +15/+10/+5 || +9 || +7 || +16 || || Partition Mind ||
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| 18th || Ardent 4 / [[Monk]] 2 / [[SRD:Slayer|Slayer]] 10 / Sanctified Mind 2 || +16/+11/+6/+1 || +10 || +7 || +17 || Improved Natural Attack (Unarmed Strike) || Cleansing Strike || Protection from Spells, Psionic
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| 19th || Ardent 4 / [[Monk]] 2 / [[SRD:Slayer|Slayer]] 10 / Sanctified Mind 3 || +17/+12/+7/+2 || +10 || +8 || +17 || || Disrupting Blow 1/day || Teleport, Psionic Greater
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| 20th || Ardent 4 / [[Monk]] 2 / [[SRD:Slayer|Slayer]] 10 / Sanctified Mind 4 || +18/+13/+8/+3 || +11 || +8 || +18 || || Hard to Hold || +1 [[Wisdom]], Earthquake, Psionic
|}

=== Items ===
{| cellpadding="2"
|-
|Belt of Magnificence || 200,000 GP
|-
|Monks Tattoo || 80,000 GP
|-
|Mighty Arms Graft || 1,000 GP
|-
|Battlefists +1 || 2600 GP
|-
|Ectoplasmic Fist Shard || 4,000 GP
|-
|Bracers of Armor +8 || 64,000 GP
|-
|Amulet of Natural Armor +5 || 50,000 GP
|-
|Ring of Protection +5 || 50,000 GP
|-
|Tome of Understanding +5 || 137,500 GP
|}

== Highlights ==

This build uses Metamorphosis and Expansion to shift into a Colossal sized Mountain Troll and the monks Flurry of Blows to unleash a devastating barrage of attacks. It has utility powers to move around the battlefield, and direct damage powers when smacking things just isn't good enough. Slayer levels eventually allow him to become immune to any Mind Affecting spells, and his High Wisdom gives him a very high AC. Full ranks in Use Magic Device allows the build to use pretty much anything that it might need.

== Side Notes ==

=== Limitations ===

Has a limited number of psionic powers, and they have very specific uses. Without the psionic powers this build is neutered.

=== DM Counters ===

Disallowing some of the items is a good way to start. Using dispel magic, or psionics to remove buffs will help combat the power.

=== Miscellaneous ===

----
{{3.5e Optimized Character Builds Breadcrumb}}
[[Category:DnD]]
[[Category:User]]
[[Category:Optimized Character Build]]
[[Category:WotC Rules Only]]

Talk:The Psionic Monk (3.5e Optimized Character Build)

2009-12-31T22:58:52Z

Sleaker: /* Tashalatora */ new section

User talk:Green Dragon

2009-12-30T06:04:21Z

Sleaker:

{{:User:Green Dragon/Top Template}}
{{Messages of Interest|messages=
{{MoI-Row
|page=User_talk:Green_Dragon
|section=Taking Author Information off Pages
|notifier=Jwguy
|date_time=01:40, 6 November 2009 (MST)
}}
{{MoI-Row
|page=Talk:Detect_Disease_(3.5e_Spell)
|section=Author Template
|notifier=Daniel Draco
|date_time=13:55, 6 October 2009 (MDT)
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{{MoI-Row
|page=Talk:Detect_Disease_(3.5e_Spell)
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{{MoI-Row
|page=Talk:SRD3e:System_Reference_Document
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{{MoI-Row
|page=User_talk:Hooper/Banned_Material
|section=Hugh?
|notifier=Lord Dhazriel
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{{MoI-Row
|page=User_talk:Jason_Bagby
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{{MoI-Row
|page=User_talk:Admin
|section=Transcribed Wizards of the Coast Online Archives
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{{MoI-Row
|page=User_talk:Admin
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|notifier=TheWarforgedArtificer
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{{MoI-Row
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|notifier=Sulacu
|date_time=13:58, 28 August 2009 (MDT)
}}
{{MoI-Row
|page=Talk:Knightwarrior_(3.5e_Class)
|section=
|notifier=Lord Dhazriel
|date_time=21:57, 27 August 2009 (MDT)
}}
{{MoI-Row
|page=User_talk:Calidore_Chase
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|notifier=Calidore Chase
|date_time=12:51, 15 August 2009 (MDT)
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{{MoI-Row
|page=Template_talk:Spell
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|notifier=TheWarforgedArtificer
|date_time=00:12, 8 August 2009 (MDT)
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{{MoI-Row
|page=Template_talk:Spell
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|notifier=TheWarforgedArtificer
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{{MoI-Row
|page=Talk:Half-Troll_(4e_Race)
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|notifier=Sepsis
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{{MoI-Row
|page=Template_talk:4e_Power
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{{MoI-Row
|page=Template_talk:4e_Power
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{{MoI-Row
|page=Talk:4e_Base_Classes
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{{MoI-Row
|page=Talk:Ironbound_(DnD_Prestige_Class)
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{{MoI-Row
|page=Talk:Dungeons_and_Dragons
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|date_time=22:13, 24 June 2009 (MDT)
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{{MoI-Row
|page=Template_talk:4e_Artifact_Part_1
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{{MoI-Row
|page=User_talk:Green_Dragon
|section=Harassment
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|date_time=07:45, 31 May 2009 (MDT)
}}
{{MoI-Row
|page=Talk:Giant_(4e_Race)
|section=Response
|notifier=Sepsis
|date_time=07:37, 31 May 2009 (MDT)
}}
{{MoI-Row
|page=Category_talk:Martial_Adept
|section=
|notifier=Daniel Draco
|date_time=19:57, 28 May 2009 (MDT)
}}
{{MoI-Row
|page=Nature_Bound_(DnD_Class)
|section=
|notifier=Sabreheim
|date_time=15:26, 28 May 2009 (MDT)
}}
{{MoI-Row
|page=Talk:Daunting_Assailant_(DnD_Class)
|section=
|notifier=Daniel Draco
|date_time=15:46, 8 April 2009 (MDT)
}}
{{MoI-Row
|page=Talk:Regiment_(3.5e_Template)
|section=Can't Access the Page Anymore
|notifier=Aarnott
|date_time=15:27, 6 April 2009 (MDT)
}}
{{MoI-Row
|page=Template_talk:Weapon_Desc
|section=
|notifier=Sabre070
|date_time=21:52, 7 November 2008 (MST)
}}
{{MoI-Row
|page=Talk:Main_Page
|section=Moving to new MediaWiki version
|notifier=Blue Dragon
|date_time=13:36, 28 October 2008 (MDT)
}}
{{MoI-Row
|page=Talk:Bodily_Relics
|section=Talk:Bodily Relics?
|notifier=Rithaniel
|date_time=10:28, 16 October 2008 (MDT)
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{{MoI-Row
|page=Talk:DnD_Abyssal_Heritor_Feats
|section=DPL
|notifier=Aarnott
|date_time=11:08, 28 July 2008 (MDT)
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{{MoI-Row
|page=Talk:Soul-Mate_(DnD_Feat)
|section=
|notifier=Xdeletedx
|date_time=23:03, 19 July 2008 (MDT)
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{{MoI-Row
|page=Talk:Snake-Sword_(DnD_Equipment)
|section=
|notifier=Eiji
|date_time=02:07, 30 June 2008 (MDT)
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{{MoI-Row
|page=Talk:Main_Page
|section=WYSIWYG extension
|notifier=Aarnott
|date_time=10:35, 20 June 2008 (MDT)
}}
{{MoI-Row
|page=Snow_Silver_(3.5e_Equipment)
|section=
|notifier=Ice Paul the III
|date_time=13:21, 6 June 2008 (MDT)
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{{MoI-Row
|page=Talk:Myrmidon_(DnD_Class)
|section=
|notifier=Kisame93
|date_time=08:16, 26 May 2008 (MDT)
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{{MoI-Row
|page=UA_talk:Variant_Rules
|section=Two Complete Chapters
|notifier=OptimizationFanatic
|date_time=15:15, 11 May 2008 (MDT)
}}
{{MoI-Row
|page=Talk:Expanded_Religions_(DnD_Variant_Rule)
|section=Featured Article Nomination
|notifier=Hawk
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{{MoI-Row
|page=Talk:Regiment_(DnD_Template)
|section=Call out for help!
|notifier=Aarnott
|date_time=16:58, 17 March 2008 (MDT)
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{{MoI-Row
|page=Template_talk:Main_Page_FA
|section=
|notifier=Sam Kay
|date_time=13:21, 16 March 2008 (MDT)
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{{MoI-Row
|page=Talk:Publishers_of_d20_and_D&D_Products
|section=
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|date_time=11:15, 16 March 2008 (MDT)
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{{MoI-Row
|page=Talk:Mesoamerican_Gods_and_Goddessess_(DnD_Pantheon)
|section=
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|date_time=09:59, 16 March 2008 (MDT)
}}
{{MoI-Row
|page=Talk:Marksman_(DnD_Class)
|section=
|notifier=Eiji
|date_time=02:30, 15 March 2008 (MDT)
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{{MoI-Row
|page=Form_talk:DnD_Equipment/Preload
|section=Problems
|notifier=Hawk
|date_time=22:03, 29 February 2008 (MST)
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{{MoI-Row
|page=Talk:DnD_Equipment
|section=Cost and Weight
|notifier=Hawk
|date_time=20:06, 29 February 2008 (MST)
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{{MoI-Row
|page=Form_talk:DnD_Equipment
|section=Date
|notifier=Hawk
|date_time=19:42, 29 February 2008 (MST)
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{{MoI-Row
|page=Talk:Catgirl/Nekomusume/Nekomimi_(DnD_Race)
|section=Dogs
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{{MoI-Row
|page=Talk:Brawling_(DnD_Variant_Rule)
|section=Sooo tired...
|notifier=Eiji
|date_time=00:04, 26 February 2008 (MST)
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{{MoI-Row
|page=Talk:Marksman_(DnD_Class)
|section=
|notifier=Eiji
|date_time=13:11, 24 February 2008 (MST)
}}
{{MoI-Row
|page=Talk:User_Base_Classes
|section=
|notifier=Sledged
|date_time=14:27, 19 February 2008 (MST)
}}
{{MoI-Row
|page=Talk:Vest_of_the_Bold_(DnD_Equipment)
|section=
|notifier=Cronocke
|date_time=05:17, 18 February 2008 (MST)
}}
{{MoI-Row
|page=Pedistal_of_Truth_(DnD_Equipment)
|section=Format Format
|notifier=Green Dragon
|date_time=09:40, 16 February 2008 (MST)
}}
{{MoI-Row
|page=Talk:Performer_(DnD_Prestige_Class)
|section=
|notifier=Cerin616
|date_time=18:22, 11 February 2008 (MST)
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{{MoI-Row
|page=Talk:Main_Page
|section=
|notifier=Sam Kay
|date_time=07:20, 5 February 2008 (MST)
}}
{{MoI-Row
|page=Talk:Paladin_Mount_from_first_level_(DnD_Variant_Rule)
|section=
|notifier=Sam Kay
|date_time=09:35, 4 February 2008 (MST)
}}
{{MoI-Row
|page=Myrmidon_(DnD_Class)
|section=all of it
|notifier=Tetsurga
|date_time=17:54, 31 January 2008 (MST)
}}
{{MoI-Row
|page=Talk:DnD_Maps
|section=Maybe this should be in environments after all?
|notifier=EldritchNumen
|date_time=12:32, 3 January 2008 (MST)
}}
{{MoI-Row
|page=Talk:Chromatic_Dwarf_(DnD_Creature)
|section=Race
|notifier=Green Dragon
|date_time=23:45, 1 June 2007 (MDT)
}}
{{MoI-Row
|page=Combat_School_(3.5e_Variant_Rule)
|section=
|notifier=Green Dragon
|date_time=23:57, 21 May 2007 (MDT)
}}
{{MoI-Row
|page=MediaWiki:Sharedupload
|section=
|notifier=Green Dragon
|date_time=23:01, 14 May 2007 (MDT)
}}
{{MoI-Row
|page=dndmedia:D&D_Wiki_Media_talk:Copyrights
|section=Image documentation
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|date_time=14:11, 11 May 2007 (MDT)
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}}

{{Archives
|label1= Archive 1 (Discussions 1 – 30)
|label2= Archive 2 (Discussions 31 – 60)
|label3= Archive 3 (Discussions 61 – 90)
|label4= Archive 4 (Discussions 91 – 120)
|label5= Archive 5 (Discussions 121 – 150)
|label6= Archive 6 (Discussions 151 – 180)
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|label10= Archive 10 (Discussions 271 – 300)
|label11= Archive 11 (Discussions 301 – 330)
|label12= Archive 12 (Discussions 331 – 360)
|label13= Archive 13 (Discussions 361 – 390)
|label14= Archive 14 (Discussions 391 – 420)
|label15= Archive 15 (Discussions 421 – 450)
}}
== An over all thought ==
I saw the drama again, I think that Green did what was right. You know why? Its his page. I know we all put our souls in it but it is what it is. I dont want to drudge things up but for example no one but green has even commented on anything i ask help for, no one has rated classes im fixing, NOTHING. only green. So I stand firmly behind him, so please flame me all you want.
--[[User:Starcry|Starcry]] 10:44, 7 December 2009 (MST)
== Hit Points in 3.5e ==

I have a question about hit points in v3.5 and i cannot confirm if i am correct or not. My question is:

When you reach a new bonus with your constitution score (from +1 to +2) do you gain 1 hp per class level, or just another hp at the level your new constitution bonus takes effect.

I have always assumed that you would gain 1 hp per class level when this occurs as, unless im wrong, you lose 1 hp per level when you your constitution bonus drops a point. {{Unsigned|70.71.231.106|23:20, 5 July 2009 (MDT)}}

:[[SRD:Constitution]] states: "If a character’s Constitution score changes enough to alter his or her Constitution modifier, the character’s hit points also increase or decrease accordingly." I mean, a raging barbarian gets bonus hit points from his Constitution increase. Why wouldn't you normally gain from such a benefit? I've always played like that (retroactive increases), anyway. Hope this helps, even if the link isn't explicitly clear. --[[User:Jota|Jota]] 00:55, 6 July 2009 (MDT)

::I'm pretty sure bonus HP due to a CON increase are awarded retroactively. I've noticed they are in d20 products for the PC and console, so I'm certain they're awarded the same way in regular D&D. We always played it like that anyway. --[[User:Mythos Specialist|Mythos]] 16:22, 7 July 2009 (MDT)

:::It is awarded retroactively, though you may want to play this differently. Sometimes it doesn't make sense for a person to gain a large amount of hit points for (almost) no reason. --[[User:Sabre070|Sabre070]] 05:01, 12 July 2009 (MDT)

== 4e Power Format Regarding LAI ==

Thanks, I really appreciate you taking the time to send me a message. Hopefully, it was manual otherwise, oops! ''':P'''

I have one question though. I was creating a campaign setting for the 4th edition, and I've noticed the wiki is lacking in material for this edition. Could you tell me what things are availible to me? On a related note, whenever I use the 4th edition power template, a footer appears beneath it, like in [[LPadfoot (4e Class)|here]]. How do I get rid of it? Also, very quickly, my campaign was put under 0 for lacking pages, but I've been steadily adding them. How will my campaign get out of 0? Thanks! ~[[User:Celen Joad|Celen Joad]] 17:33, 9 July 2009 (MDT)`

:[[4e Homebrew]]. Since when can Campaign Settings get rated as 0? I think you mean your class. I would post something on it's talk page ans ask what you need to do to improve it. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 17:37, 9 July 2009 (MDT)

::Here is what I mean. Without code wrapping '{{,}}'
::stub|missing nearly all pages
::Campaign Setting Rating=0
::How do I fix that? {{Unsigned|Celen Joad|07:31, 10 July 2009 (MDT)}}

:::I agree with you about [[Template:4e Power]] and how it automatically adds the breadcrumb to all the powers gets very damn annoying (okay, I've never actually added my own 4e class. I'm just talking about the layout). We currently add homebrew power's into their own linked to pages with each class having it's own page ([[4e Powers]] - the ones under "homebrew designation"). The reason the breadcrumb is included in that template is because the idea when they were made was for each to have it's own page. The reasoning was so other classes could use the same powers, like a mix of 3.5e spells 4e powers optimized for functionality; however I feel that their is a better way to do it. What are your thoughts on having something more compared to a pool of 4e powers and each class transcluding them into their page (or creating a link list - comparable to the 3.5e spell lists for each class)? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 15:24, 11 July 2009 (MDT)

::::I took a look at your campaign setting - [[LAI (DnD Campaign Setting)|LAI]] and you were right. It was rated as 0. I changed the formatting and layout a bit and changed the rating to 2, however I did not really read it so the rating could be off. And above with the code warping and dpl mixed with categories idea did you man to ask how does one change a campaign settings rating? Since it uses a template it just pulls a parameter from the template page; so one just has to change the number at the end to the new rating. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 16:06, 11 July 2009 (MDT)

:::::Also which edition does [[LAI (DnD Campaign Setting)|LAI]] use? Your 4e class is in there but much of it is using 3.5e material. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 23:40, 12 July 2009 (MDT)

::::::What do you mean? I designed the class after how it looks like in the 4e handbooks, and it says in the running and history of LAI section that it uses 4e. So how do I manage to get the Power to appear without the footer? Do I link into it like with the menu and find some way to make them fit in the powers section? My idea on that power linkage thing is to have it so that powers could have a powersource tab add to it as well as a link on the power to the classes it belongs to, so that you can search up the power, then see the classes it leads to on the power itself.-- [[User:Celen Joad|Celen Joad]] 7:44, 15 July 2009 (GST +10)

:::::::Removing those footers on class pages is a bit of an issue. The template was designed to work so that each homebrew class added has it's own power page and each template has it's own page. I am not positive if you agree or not however I think that that organizational structure for powers is a bit extraneous (for example your class has about six powers. Six powers on such a massive page (to me at least) comes off as a bit much). I changed your class a bit to show you more of what I mean. The first edit I did (with the revision history is [http://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=LAI_Class%3A_Archer&diff=391450&oldid=374143] and then I reverted it back to the old revision [http://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=LAI_Class:_Archer&diff=next&oldid=391450]). One of the powers does not have a breadcrumb but if one notices it is changed to say "Attack" to say "Class Feature" (or something like that). I am not positive with either way to organize the powers on your class. Also the template could be changed so one has to add a footer manually. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:39, 15 July 2009 (MDT)

::::::::I made [[Template:4e Power/Sandbox]]. If you would not mind let me know what you think. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 17:30, 16 July 2009 (MDT)

:::::::::It looks great! Finally we can have powers without the footers! Huzzah. On the subject on the changes to the Archer class: Would you like to join LAI? You are amazing! Your tweaks have made the Archer class a rich and more in depth class than I alone (Seeing as I'm the only one in PnP LAI) could make! I give you full permission to edit anything on LAI as long as it dosen't affect the larger whole of the story! BTW the Tribal Civil war didn't happen, more like a World War among the cities.
:::::::::Serious about the LAI joining thing, will you? {{Unsigned|Celen Joad|03:33, 19 July 2009 (MDT)}}

::::::::::Could you email me about joining LAI so I can think about it more? I don't want to start helping LAI and have strange ideas for LAI which you disagree with. Although I am pretty certain I want to continue developing it, with permission. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 16:58, 21 July 2009 (MDT)

:::::::::::Could you email me and let me know if it is okay for me to edit your CS soon and so we can discuss ideas? I want to start a 4e campaign in a day or so and I would prefer to use LAI. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:12, 25 July 2009 (MDT)

::::::::::::Sure, the Email will be arriving soon. I had a special pdf. sheet I made for recruiting people in real life, it would be nice to send it to you via Email. On a less formal setting, I give you full permission to edit anything but the History (Though you can add things). --[[User:Celen Joad|Celen Joad]] 10:20, 29 July 2009

:::::::::::::I don't mean to be rude or anything, however I changed my opinion. I think I am going to start a 3.5e campaign and just start from a small town outwards. Sorry to have been a bother, thanks for your time. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 14:46, 30 July 2009 (MDT)

== Appologies in Advance ==

For all the annoying MOIs past and future to fix little errors that i find in locked pages. --[[User:GaaaaaH|- GaaaaaH]] 05:03, 12 July 2009 (MDT)

:Not at all. It's good to know where problems are - they help improve D&D Wiki, so no worries. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 11:23, 13 November 2009 (MST)

== Show/Hide ==

Is there a way to hide the contents of an article until the viewer clicks on a link... like a 'for DM's Eyes only' warning on adventure pages. --[[User:Calidore Chase|Calidore Chase]] 11:29, 26 July 2009 (MDT)

:[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] has something to that effect on his user page. I don't know what in the coding makes it work like that, but it might be a place to start. -- [[User:Jota|Jota]] 12:32, 26 July 2009 (MDT)

::{|class="{{d20}} collapsible hidden" style="width:75%; text-align:left;"
|+ For DM's Only
|-
| The information stored in this "For DM Only" table is, as the name stipulates, for the eyes of the Dungeon Master only. In such;

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Integer vel odio tellus. Maecenas eu sagittis nunc. Cras pharetra neque magna. Aliquam ut lectus posuere tellus scelerisque vehicula eu a magna. Duis nulla sapien, tempus id semper eu, sollicitudin nec tortor. In hac habitasse platea dictumst. Mauris venenatis mollis commodo. Vestibulum laoreet, erat eu iaculis porttitor, odio enim ultricies dolor, quis pellentesque arcu erat sed purus. Integer accumsan, lacus non consectetur molestie, augue nibh fermentum nisl, nec tristique dolor urna at mauris. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit.
|}
::Easily made into a template. --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 12:42, 26 July 2009 (MDT)

:::Of course also take a look at [[Template:OGL Bottom]] (slightly different). --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 11:31, 13 November 2009 (MST)

== Gravity Warrior Edits ==

I just want to say two things:
# I put the breaks on the epic table, because otherwise the hit dice overlap with the table. In my personal opinion, that's one of the problems with the current preload.
# Under the advancement section, I changed it to rogue and monk, singular, as gravity warriors multiclass to '''become''' rogues/monks, but the multiclass '''into''' the rogue or monk classes.
I put this here because I don't want to start something (an edit war, so to speak), but I don't think either of those edits are correct, nor do I think the other grammar you changed was wrong; your changes were merely a matter of personal preference rather than right/wrong. You also took out a few commas, that with all due respect, were correct in their placement. Again, no disrespect intended, I just think those changes were mostly unneccessary, and in an instance or two, wrong. -- [[User:Jota|Jota]] 18:02, 27 July 2009 (MDT)

:I don't care about the second point you brought up (it just needs to follow the English grammar rules — other then that I do not care). However, do you use IE or FF? I run Ubuntu and for me the coding on the epic table looks fine. However, since I use Ubuntu, I cannot see how the coding would look like on IE. Also, since your table coding looks (about) the same it's proably fine. If, however, this is a problem for all the class pages when one uses IE do you think you could let me know? I would be more then willing to change the preload if it is a class-wide problem. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 18:10, 27 July 2009 (MDT)

::I'm using Safari (my laptop's a Mac), but I'll check on my family's home computer (Windows, has both IE and something else). And yes, it is a class-wide problem, at least with Safari. As far as the second point, I was pointing out that I felt I changed it to follow proper English grammar rules, and then you changed it to something that didn't agree (from what I have learned). That could be wrong, but English is my forte. -- [[User:Jota|Jota]] 19:36, 27 July 2009 (MDT)

== Wood Elves ==

Just a heads up, but according to the MM, Wood Elves' ability mods are +2 strength, +2 dexterity, -2 Constitution, -2 Intelligence, -2 Charisma.

The SRD wood elf page doesn't have the -2 to charisma.

-Eonir777

== Template Limitation Dates ==

I was hoping not to have to bother you directly with this, sir, but it has not been getting any attention by enough important people. I am moving the discussion page I created to here instead. --[[User:TheWarforgedArtificer|TheWarforgedArtificer]] 12:30, 28 July 2009 (MDT)

:I was talking with Ganteka earlier today about this. Now, I know that when an article has the delete template, it is deleted after two weeks if no edits have been made. Now, as some may have noticed, I've been busy recently, at the end of June and now, with a large templating project. I've been putting stub, wikify, and delete on articles that need them.
:In the case of all templates that are not delete, Ganteka informed me they just sit there, perpetually, -unless- someone takes pity on them. With the templating project I've been working on, the category pages for these template may get bloated with a mountain of articles that never get attention.
:Now, since it is unreasonable to ask the people of the wiki to collectively clean up these articles any more than they already are, I propose this: A limitation date on articles with Stub or Wikify, funtioning similar to the cutoff for Delete. If no one attempts to salvage a page with Stub or Wikify in X amount of time, the template is changed to Delete, and then the article is on the final two-week deathwatch for someone to rescue it. This way, articles will, one way or another, not sit and rot in template categories other than Delete. This ensures that the artciles that are truly worth preserving are preserved, and articles that no one can be botherd to fix are alowed to die their quiet deaths.
:I propose that the cutoff time for articles with the Stub or Wikify templates be in the realm of two-to-six months.
:Discuss. --[[User:TheWarforgedArtificer|TheWarforgedArtificer]] 22:20, 14 July 2009 (MDT)

::I've already been doing this, it's a good idea -- takes out the trash. Some stuff is "vaguely savable" I guess but if no one cares enough to actually save it I don't really want it on the wiki. --[[User:Surgo|Surgo]] 22:52, 14 July 2009 (MDT)

:::I've just been sticking the delete on things, figuring if someone wants them, fine, if not, they're better off deleted. That's probably not the best way to do things (which is why I've only done it with massively neglected articles), but it seems we all in accordance so one extent or another. --[[User:Jota|Jota]] 00:07, 15 July 2009 (MDT)

::::To clarify: I'm talking about implementing a set, clearly defined, official, and universal(meaning everyone/anyone does this, not just one or two random people) policy to ensure that these articles are cleaned out regularly, the reason for this being the extensive templating I have been doing recently may overfill the categories, and then nothing gets done because no one will bother to look through to find fixable stuff. As said, I am thinking the set date for template-swapping could be somewhere from two to six months. In addition, swapping the templates should -only- be done if an article in question has zero edits for the set time period. What does everyone think about this? (making an official policy for this I mean, and this proposition is mainly being made to all the admins, as they are the ones who will ultimately decided this). --[[User:TheWarforgedArtificer|TheWarforgedArtificer]] 18:11, 15 July 2009 (MDT)

:::::I started [[Template:Reviewing Template]] which (given some help) could ''potentially'' do what you are looking for. One could either build a bot based of time to change the templates (then this template would already be done - all that would need to be changed would be for [[Template:Delete]] to be added as another template option), or one could find or build an extension in MW which makes things be able to be based of time (my prefered option. Then like how [[Template:Delete]] currently does things with time could be reverse engineered to instead of displaying the time it was added display a countdown until the template dynamically changes to [[Template:Delete]] (and then the two week time limit would come up) — quite beautiful to be honest). The main issue with that right now if you look into this) is that [[template:Delete]]'s time thing is hard-coded into D&D Wiki's MW and not an extension (although solvable if one finds or builds a time extension for MW as I mentioned above). Also, continuing on with the problems with the second option, one would have to (I would willingly look into this) make a way to have [[Template:Delete]] show up as a catch-all template holder on [[Template:Reviewing Template]]. The easiest, messiest, and way which just adds another layer of people which need to work and no one which wants to do the mundane tasks like that would be to just manually change all the templates as their time comes up. This way would (in my opinion) just add another problem onto the problem though. So, if you know of an easy way to make any of these options to work let me know please (I don't mean to be frank or condescending with this last sentence here — I just meant to write a wrap up sentence). --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 14:16, 28 July 2009 (MDT)

::::::I don't know anything about coding or bots or what you're talking about. If I am not misunderstanding you, I didn't know there even was any actual coding time attached to the Delete template, I just thought is was only the official policy that articles are deleted after two weeks of no edits, even though that doesn't actually happen often. All I'm suggesting is that a similar official policy be applied to changing wikify and stub templates to delete. It doesn't matter how it's done; I just thought is was going to be a manual thing anyway, to be honest. And since this is not actual deletion or anything requiring mod or admin powers; -I- could change templates, if necessary. All I'm thinking of is having an official policy that says so. Nothing more.
::::::So, in that vein, what do you think? What should the time be? Two months of no edits? Six months? Something in between? Something else? {{Unsigned|TheWarforgedArtificer|14:35, 28 July 2009 (MDT)}}

:::::::Ah, damn. So you would willingly take the third option. Personally I think if one uses the third option (as I mentioned above) a lot of problems will happen. Manually doing things like that is always a problem (in my opinion). Personally, if a time extension for MW is present, template switching could be made dynamic and [[:Category:Candidates for Deletion]] could be continued to be manual (so one looks over everything which gets deleted and one can not do malicious adding of [[Template:Delete]] onto finished pages, going unnoticed, and getting the page removed by a bot). On the time frame aspect I think that 1-2 months is a good indicator of inactivity on an article. Your thoughts? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 15:41, 28 July 2009 (MDT)

::::::::Honestly? I have no idea what you're talking about; about making stuff dynamic or whatever "MW" is. I don't know anything about this. And I don't understand how changing the templates manually will be a problem. I just know I am willing to do the changes manually and systematically if everyone else is too busy, and the policy is implemented.
::::::::And i think a time limted of two months/sixty days (fixing things move slow around here, sometimes) is a good time. {{Unsigned|TheWarforgedArtificer|15:48, 28 July 2009 (MDT)}}

:::::::::No reason to get annoyed. MW is MediaWiki - the code base D&D Wiki is based on. One can add extensions to it to improve it (such as the dpl, SMW (Semantic MediaWiki - e.g. [[DnD Flaws]]), extensions etc). If an extension does something with time then we could make template switching dynamic (or maybe reverse engineer the hard code behind [[Template:Delete]]'s time thing to make an extension which could work). If you ''really'' do not want to talk about theoretical implications of a dynamic template reviewing system with the base template being [[Template:Delete]] then sorry. I think 2 months is fine if you want to do everything manually. Or one could just look at the article and decide again (since it would all be done manually anyway). --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 15:56, 28 July 2009 (MDT)

::::::::::I apologize, my above post was not meant to be in any annoyed tone. Curse ambiguous text.
::::::::::As for all the stuff that I "really" don't want to talk about...it's actually that I "really" don't know or understand it. I have not learned real coding yet, I have no idea what this coding thing you're trying to tell me is. I really wish I -did- know, but...I don't. So, getting off that note, two months sounds good. Do any other mods or admins need to weigh in on this? --[[User:TheWarforgedArtificer|TheWarforgedArtificer]] 16:15, 28 July 2009 (MDT)

:::::::::::You could organize the a userpage subsection of yours - until the dpl can be improved to make it work dynamic - into something related to <code><nowiki>[[User:TK-Squared/Shit That Needs Deleting]]</nowiki></code>. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 21:28, 13 August 2009 (MDT)

== Undead Disciple ==

Hi, I've been working on a 3.5 class called the Undead Disciple and I'm worried its overpowered. Could you take a look at it please?--[[User:Knk42|Knk42]] 09:28, 2 August 2009 (MDT)

== 4e Demigods Breadcrumb? ==

Hate to bother you, but i am wondering if there is a breadcrumb for 4e demigods and if so what is it? Thanks for your time, [[User:Kildairem|Kildairem]] 20:47, 4 August 2009 (MDT)

:There, I just made some for the deities section. [[Template:3.5e Demigod Deities Breadcrumb]]. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 23:36, 4 August 2009 (MDT)

.

== What the Hell ==

You've had weeks to protest against the rating committee, something decided upon and agreed upon by virtually every active user here. And you wait until it all gets set up to suddenly decide to delete it? What the hell, yo? [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] 21:59, 9 August 2009 (MDT)

:We are using logic here. The method above improves D&D Wiki's accessibility and that is key. Less pages mean less places for people to get confused on. I hope you understand - your way is faulty in logic. Please watch out or a ban could be in ordnance. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:07, 9 August 2009 (MDT)

::How exactly is 'my way faulty in logic'? Did you even read the pages and pages of text we've posted above about this issue? And why on earth would you respond ''now'' of all times by deleting what we've set up, instead of responding weeks ago? I think all of us have a right to be annoyed and angry for that reason alone. [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] 22:08, 9 August 2009 (MDT)

:::Yes, of course I did. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:10, 9 August 2009 (MDT)

::::We agreed almost unanimously that this quality censor was going to be for the good of this wiki. So I agree with the aforementioned complaint. Why would you suddenly override everybody involved and delete it? --[[User:Sulacu|Sulacu]] 22:12, 9 August 2009 (MDT)

:::::You have stepped far over your bounds as a benevolent dictator; you've just gone right down into despotism. Unban Surgo; he didn't implement anything. He suggested it; he didn't create a new Author template, he didn't change the Spell template nor did he add the pages. If you want to ban someone; ban ME. I did all of that. I messed with your precious little templates in attempt to help the Wikipedia project for D&D. Don't do something stupid like that; banning me is fine; banning Surgo for that, is not. --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 22:15, 9 August 2009 (MDT)

::::::Right, this is my website. You may like to start your own if you are so inclined. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:23, 9 August 2009 (MDT)

== Make Love, Not War ==

Time to put a nice little flower on that banhammer of yours, let's bury this hatchet and just...get along? --[[User:Ehsteve|Ehsteve]] 23:14, 10 August 2009 (MDT)

:I know, I am still thinking of hierarchy more. Since I was banned by another one of them I will wait to unban them until I hear more of the full story - from their side (emails, etc. I got a few just they have not explained why [[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] ended up banning me for a bit, etc)). I would say once both of those issues are resolved then I most likely unban them depending. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 23:22, 10 August 2009 (MDT)

::Well understandibly everyone is a bit sour of the matter. Those involved feel like an apology is due from you as the actions you took were unbalanced as a response to a simple talk-page arguement. The subsequent banning of all administrators, even those offline - those that were not involved - is not in my opinion a fair response in any situation. To prevent the loss of dedicated and active users who make up a considerable amount of the current contributions to the wiki I would advise perhaps admitting an overreaction to the matter would be approapriate to clear up this whole incident. --[[User:Ehsteve|Ehsteve]] 23:45, 10 August 2009 (MDT)

:::Right, I said once I deal with hierarchy (in my head for D&D Wiki) a bit more I will deal with it. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 00:02, 11 August 2009 (MDT)

::::In reference to the Aarnott banning (not to butt in, I was just present in the Tavern at the time) he was hoping you would take it as a hint to step back and "cool down", as many said in not so many words. He meant no offense by it, just was trying to send a message since talking through posting was ignored when it came to Surgo and Sulacu. -[[User:Valentine the Rogue|Valentine the Rogue]] 01:16, 11 August 2009 (MDT)

:::::Just putting my 2 cents in. I haven't been very active on DnD Wiki this year but I've still tried to help on minor things where I can. I didn't even know you were banned.. Also, we have google ad's on here now? --[[User:118.208.168.99|118.208.168.99 (Sabre070)]] 01:37, 11 August 2009 (MDT)

::::::Right, but none should ''ever'' ban me (this is my website). Other then that I am trying out Google ads for a bit (layout and usefulness) to see if I like them or not and if they will stay on D&D Wiki. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 15:25, 11 August 2009 (MDT)

:::::::I would think that lifting the ban on them now would not be too out of the question given that their user rights have been revoked (so it's not like they could ban you again). You don't necessarily have to give them back all their privledges, but keeping them banned seems somewhat excessive. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 17:48, 11 August 2009 (MDT)

::::::::Acting as if you are the ''only'' contributor to this wiki at this moment will only lead to stagnation of the wiki along with a lack of administrators to moderate as well. To put it plainly, you've had a chance to redeem yourself to a good portion of the active users you've banned, but instead decided against doing so and have lost the respect and trust of those administrators even if they were not involved in the incident. --[[User:Ehsteve|Ehsteve]] 19:01, 11 August 2009 (MDT)

:::::::::Right, this is my website. You may like to start your own if you are so inclined. Also they are admins once again; no worries on that end. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 21:30, 13 August 2009 (MDT)

::::::::::What about the worry of you randomly banning people again for no good reason, offering no explanation as to why they were banned and then bringing the site down because of said banning? If I were them, I'd worry about that. --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 21:34, 13 August 2009 (MDT)

:::::::::::Alright, hopefully they understood. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 21:35, 13 August 2009 (MDT)

::::::::::::As one of the people banned, I'd say they don't. --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 21:36, 13 August 2009 (MDT)

{{Discussion Indentation Revert}}

:As another of those people (having been banned while offline and totally uninvolved, adding further bafflement to the situation), I'd agree with TK. You have offered absolutely no explanation of why we were banned and the site was taken down. To assume that we understand your motives simply by reading your ''silence'' is preposterous. There only explanation I can think of that justifies banning people who were not at all involved involves a murderous psycho who threatened you with death unless you banned us, and I think we can immediately rule that out. Therefore, you screwed up and we need concrete and uncompromisable assurance that you not only will not, but CAN not do this again. --[[User:Daniel Draco|Daniel Draco]] 22:28, 13 August 2009 (MDT)

::I have banned admins before - this is not the first time (I mean historically for short periods of time). This is ''literally'' my website; so I need no explanation. Also, if things to continue to happen as they have before, it could happen again. I was banned from my own website, the servers are probably 100 ft. away from me right now, I need no explanation in my head. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:40, 13 August 2009 (MDT)

:::Well, that's it then. You told us before if we didn't like you and your arbitrary rules, to go make our own website. That's exactly what we did. Goodbye. [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] 22:53, 13 August 2009 (MDT)

::::Yup, you blew it. Ciao, tyrant. --[[User:Daniel Draco|Daniel Draco]] 22:55, 13 August 2009 (MDT)

:::::Now we're on the subject, I would like to request the immediate and permanent deletion of every article in <nowiki>Category:User Sulacu</nowiki>. Kind regards, --[[User:Sulacu|Sulacu]] 23:06, 13 August 2009 (MDT)

:::::: That is not ok. Undeserved disrespect is not ok. You disrespected us, and I am disappointed in you. this place was my home for awhile, and now I have to leave. I will not stand to be in a place where the people are unjustly disrespected. I once respected you, but now that respect is gone. And I must go too, goodbye.[[User:Summerscythe|Summerscythe]] 23:16, 13 August 2009 (MDT)

:::::::"Adopt me"? No. That is '''my''' work, and I'll not have other people taking credit for it. It is to be deleted, or at the very least my name to be kept on it and locked from all edits. --Daniel Draco 23:18, 13 August 2009 (MDT)

::::::::We can discuss this later. Personally I think it would be helpful for all people related here to take a break, wait maybe 10 hours, think about this what what you guys are saying, and then talk to me about it at that time. Also, deleting articles is never a good option (adoption or locking is a much better one, in my opinion). --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 23:22, 13 August 2009 (MDT)

:::::::::We have thought about this for days, 10 more hours will do nothing. The stunt you pulled and then the complete lack of repentance you showed was absolutely, completely unacceptable. There is no "take a break, wait maybe 10 more hours". That time has long passed. [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] 23:24, 13 August 2009 (MDT)

::::::::::With or without the 10 hours, please put the author templates back on my pages and lock them. I can accept that they will remain on this website, but I don't want my work to be changed. Delete them or preserve them, but don't put them up for adoption. --Daniel Draco 23:27, 13 August 2009 (MDT)

:::::::::::In case you haven't been paying attention for the last four days, GD, your opinion is what's destroying your wiki, scattering your once-committed members to the four winds in search for stabler climes. Deleting these articles won't be the same as wiping them away for good, however. They simply won't be on ''your'' site anymore. And that's the way how many of us want it. Do not be so obtuse and please delete those articles, now. --[[User:Sulacu|Sulacu]] 23:28, 13 August 2009 (MDT)

::::::::::::When I lock them (if you really so desire) I will look through the revision history for different edits at that time (to make sure they are your version). Also, [[User:Surgo|Surgo]], one must understand this is just a website (located on some servers) which I ''literally'' own. Anyway, [[User:Sulacu]] and [[User:Daniel Draco]] I will deal more about these pages, locking, deletion, or who knows what when I myself have a level head as well. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 23:31, 13 August 2009 (MDT)

{{Discussion Indentation Revert}}

:There is a difference between being able to do something, and it being the right thing to do. Noone is saying you are unable to do what you wish. People are saying it's the WRONG thing to do. -DragonChild

::I think you are missing the point that this is dangerous for me as well. I got banned from D&D Wiki. This is my website. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 23:35, 13 August 2009 (MDT)

:::Hello. I generally try to stay out of this 'website politics' bullshit because it all really is just bullshit. However, this time it really got me. Because the people that got banned for no reason now have your broken trust. You are no longer a level-headed impartial party, but instead it's a powerstruggle between you and the other admins that you promoted to help you ''improve your site''. All the admins have put a lot of work into helping you with the site and then you turn around and shit on their hard work by banning all of them, even the ones that weren't involved. I'm sure the ones that weren't even there when you did it don't understand why you did it, because they ''weren't there''. You might not feel like you need an answer 'in your head' but unfortunately for the rest us, 'in your head' isn't where we are so we don't know what's going on in there and expecting us to know is just ridiculous. The fact that you shit on your admins is enough, but taking the site down so that ''no one'' could access ''their'' work is completely asinine. As a user, and not even one of the ones affected by the ban, I still say that your behavior was entirely 110% uncalled for. I am dissapointed in you, as a site owner, you seem to have very little respect for your community, if any at all. If you want it to be ''your site'', then it truly will just be your site with no one else to share it with. Have fun with that, goodbye and I didn't contribute much, but I want all of my articles deleted. I have them elsewhere. [[User:Bunnie|Bunnie]] 23:35, 13 August 2009 (MDT)

::::You may "literally" own it, but the website lives and dies by your contributors. And now we have left because you took this "literal" ownership too far, ignored our opinions for too long, disrespected us too much, and threw one too many temper tantrums when something happened that you didn't like. That's it. The end. We are gone. We now have our own site that '''we''' literally own, not you. So goodbye. [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] 23:35, 13 August 2009 (MDT)

:::::That is fine. Also, please take note, that one has to add [[Template:Delete]] to their articles on their own. I don't have time to work like that. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 23:37, 13 August 2009 (MDT)

::::::I do appreciate that you will lock my pages into my final version (which, indeed, is exactly what I desire). I would add the appropriate templates, but there are none. I would lock them myself, but you blocked me. So I would appreciate it if you would do it for me. --Daniel Draco 23:41, 13 August 2009 (MDT)

:::::::I will deal with locking and adminship later; as I explained above. Right now I do not have time to do that. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 23:45, 13 August 2009 (MDT)

::::::::As a comment one can always change their mind - like with [[User:TK-Squared]] and his supposed leaving (although those pages still have yet to be restored - given time they will). --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 00:13, 14 August 2009 (MDT)

:::::::::Very well, as per your wish, all my pages now have been put up for deletion. --[[User:Sulacu|Sulacu]] 00:14, 14 August 2009 (MDT)

::::::::::Incorrect. Now the pages ''you'' want to delete are being processed the correct way through [[:Category:Candidates for Deletion]]. That's why I mentioned above about how you can always change your mind. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 00:16, 14 August 2009 (MDT)

::::::::::: I am going to relate this incident and following "explanation" to a real-world incident that has a similar feel to it. Dictator #1 "owns" his "server". Therefore, Dictator #1 believes he's allowed to do whatever he wants in his "sever" and the people will have no say about the matter. He believes that the people are creating some form of rebellion, so he "bans" them. The only difference between your situation and Dictator #1's situation is that you had no rebellion. You simply... I don't know, freaked out, apparently at the fact two pages were made to begin an implementation process of something most of the active and contributing user base had supported.

:::::::::::Furthermore, you are a keen supporter of these "policies" that you have, although finding what exact policies you mean is a slight chore in itself, yet you find yourself exempt because you "own" the site. You have breached the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators#Administrator_conduct Administrator Conduct] and the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators#Misuse_of_administrative_tools Misuse of Administrative Tools] policies laid down in the Administrator's policy on Wikipedia. If you want to run your site like a wiki, stop trying to run it as though you're the grand tyrannical godking of all creation and maybe, JUST MAYBE, give a little respect to your userbase. This could be a revolutionary idea, but I hear it works well.
:::::::::::As for my so-called "leaving"; it's a bad example. My leaving was a joke, it's only point was for me to touch up some of my articles in an easier fashion. But, this time; it won't be a joke. I advise anyone wanting their articles to be deleted to add this template; <nowiki>{{delete|14th August 2009|This article is nominated for Speedy Deletion under [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Criteria_for_speedy_deletion#Articles Article G7].}}</nowiki>.
:::::::::::Of course, my logic here for wanting explainations OBVIOUSLY is nowhere near as great as the "MY SITE I CAN DO WHAT I WANT" kind of mentality. --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 06:28, 14 August 2009 (MDT)

::::::::::::We have not discussed if we want to implement speedy deletion or not, however your articles will get looked at in due time. Also you ''must'' remember this was not a power trip; I got banned from my own website. That calls for drastic measures (for the most part). --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:15, 14 August 2009 (MDT)

:::::::::::::Drastic measures? If this site is going to hell in a bucket, maybe it's a good thing I've got my rewrites happening offline. Judging by the stability of this situation, I'd rather not my contributions be caught in the crossfire, and sooner or later I'm pretty sure one of you admins or another would overreact. -- [[User:Mythos Specialist|Mythos]] 12:34, 14 August 2009 (MDT)

{{Discussion Indentation Revert}}

:Green Dragon, you are a dumbass, you've just killed your own website, and don't even realize it. I would like for my pages to be locked in the same way that Daniel Draco's will be locked, except for the pseudonaught, which will be completed in due time, at which point, I request it be locked as well. → [[User:Rithaniel|Rith]] [[User talk:Rithaniel|(talk)]] 12:39, 14 August 2009 (MDT)

::When I have some spare time I will look into locking and deleting accordingly. Please noted that this does not mean that the admins are losing any privileges - if you know what I mean. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:58, 14 August 2009 (MDT)

::: What do you mean? (Adding the "if you know what I mean" makes it kinda ambiguous and not-understandable, I think ''':-3''') --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 13:02, 14 August 2009 (MDT)

::::I might care to point out that you got banned from ''your website'' because ''you started banning everyone else first for no reason at all'' (Often referred to as a power trip). That is justifiable banning by Aarnott, your bannings were not justified. [[User:Bunnie|Bunnie]] 13:17, 14 August 2009 (MDT)

:::::I meant that after I had the issue sorted out I gave back everyone their privileges as given to them by the D&D Wiki community. Instead of going on the same annoying rants the whole time how about this. You must, one, be able to think (analyze things as well - like [http://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&type=block&user=&limit=500 Special:Blocklog]), and two be able to look at both sides of the issue. ''While'' doing both of these things you ''should'' notice what is going on. Other then that just stop talking to me - I have no time for stupidity. Also you should take a look at [http://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&type=rights&user=&page=&pattern=&limit=500&offset=0 Special:Userrightslog] to look at how the times correlate - then maybe all the people who simply cannot think can figure this out. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:34, 14 August 2009 (MDT)

::::::Once again - I have no time for stupidity. If you want to respond I need you to ask an intellectual question and not just say things. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:40, 14 August 2009 (MDT)

:::::::[[#What the Hell|Ahem]]. From the look of things, you didn't like something someone on "your" website was doing, despite the fact that it would help the website, and you sought to put an end to it. At which point people asked you why you were acting illogically against your own wiki's interest's, to which you replied "We are using logic here", being thoroughly infuriating. After this, without attempting to discuss the issue at hand, or provide any real reasoning to your side (which you are requesting we see things from without any information on), you banned people. Now then, from this, it should be clear that it's not that you banned people, it's the fact that you didn't listen to them. You blatantly ignored the people whose only interest was to help out "your" website. This is what makes you a dumbass. → [[User:Rithaniel|Rith]] [[User talk:Rithaniel|(talk)]] 13:57, 14 August 2009 (MDT)

::::::::Stay your big insults, Green. Our ears are not large enough to fit them. I don't care how stupid you think we are or how much of a genius you think yourself. Just look upon the barren wasteland of your site a few months from now and reap the seeds of your 'ingenuity'. --[[User:Sulacu|Sulacu]] 14:38, 14 August 2009 (MDT)

:::::::::The longterm success of D&Dwiki hinges on cooperation. Let us all remember that we're in this together.  [[User:Hooper|''' Hooper ''']][[User talk:Hooper|  talk  ]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|  contribs  ]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|  email  ]] 16:43, 14 August 2009 (MDT)

:::::::::: Here's a little "intellectual question" that you have so-far avoided, probably because it's far too ILLOGICAL for you to contemplate. But, you have yet to answer WHY was Surgo banned? Why was Sulacu banned? And, lastly, why was I banned? There have been given no reasons for this and you have just gone on and on about... nothing. Every time you've said something, it's literally being saying NOTHING on the matter. Maybe if you answered one of the questions given to you rather than saying "OMG I WUZ BANND 4 N0 RSN"; because you weren't, I was. --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 17:10, 14 August 2009 (MDT)

::::::::::: Morning. I've only been on your wiki for a very, very short time, but I liked it very much. And now I see that a lot of contributors, in both data and actions, just leave. That sucks. The withdrawal of their past and/or future ocntributions is a very bad thing for the health and diversity of this wiki. So, I understand you "own" the site, that's nice. And I do have to agree with you on some points, firstly that you do have the final say in whatever happens on this site. You own it. They probably shouldn't have banned you, and I can understand that could make you very upset. The other thing I agree on, one of your earlier points, is that anyone is free to leave and go to another wiki. And now, since mainly admins -by definition relatively powerful members of the community- were involved in this struggle, and were grieved in it, a lot of the most useful contributors are leaving your site, along with a sizable amount of regular users. This is not in the best interest of your wiki.

::::::::::: Now, I'd just wish it'd all clear up and you guys merge again in one wiki, but I don't think that's going to happen. it would be what is best for the wiki and the community behind it, but I guess all people involved are too busy complaining. I think what the admins want is an apology and an explanation worthy of someone more than three years old, because while you do own the wiki, you do not own the community. On the other hand, I think you want to have the last word in whatever happens, making sure nothing happens to your wiki without your knowledge and approval. While this may not be healthy for the site, it is understandablr, and it would only require that any major change would be run past you, and that you are involved in planning and executing any such major change. I think this would not be too much to be asked from the admins. However, you'd still need to explain why something should be implemented or not, because the amount of work put into it by one party should elicit an equal or similar amount of work to negate it. Anyway, what if both parties just state what they'd want, instead of my guesswork? Is there still hope?

::::::::::::{{quote|Is there still hope?}}
::::::::::::The short answer is no. Those of us who are leaving no longer have anything we want from Green Dragon, we no longer have any demands, and there is nothing he can do to regain our trust. We have made our decision, and there is absolutely no possibility that we will come back. I cannot stress this enough: '''it's too late'''. Green Dragon has lost a large chunk of his active userbase, and you are absolutely free to join us in our new wiki. Out of courtesy to Green Dragon, I will not link the new wiki on this site; however, feel free to [[User:Daniel_Draco#Contact|contact me]] for the link. --Daniel Draco 07:30, 16 August 2009 (MDT)

== The Tavern ==

If you don't mind, please come to the tavern. Things must be discussed. --[[User:Daniel Draco|Daniel Draco]] 15:21, 12 August 2009 (MDT)

== Google Ads ==
Will the wiki be trying to alleviate operation costs permanently with the new ads? Just curious. I know it had been a bit since the last fundraiser.  [[User:Hooper|''' Hooper ''']][[User talk:Hooper|  talk  ]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|  contribs  ]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|  email  ]] 23:00, 15 August 2009 (MDT)

:A question I have. I'm not sure how these are appearing to others, but I'm not getting the typical Google Smart Ads that put up something similar. I'm just getting random junk ads (i.e. for Solar Power or Natural Herbs). I would think Smart Ads that put up D&D like stuff would get more clicks and thus more money coming in. I don't know how they run it, it just surprised me that it wasn't a "smart ads" type of program. I'm seeing smart ads on the normal pages - it looks like its mainly the login/logoff pages and pages being editted that just throw up a random thing.  [[User:Hooper|''' Hooper ''']][[User talk:Hooper|  talk  ]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|  contribs  ]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|  email  ]] 15:14, 3 September 2009 (MDT)

== An attempt to help you maintain your patrons ==

I feel it neccessary to speak up at least once on all of this bullshit. I am only reading about this whole 'power struggle', but from what I have seen, you have been totally unreasonable. The admins of your site wanted to improve it (as there ARE way too many 'dambass' pages floating around), and you seemed to be taking well to their ideas (putting your own spin on it, but staying with the general idea). Then when they began to impliment said actions (which you agreed on), you shot it down, claiming it was illogical. You yourself agreed to this illogical action. Then when ONE arrogant moron of an admin bans you from your site (which I agree was totally uncalled for), you end all adminship and close the site. Then you proceed to go into full-on tyrant mode. Now, you ask for an intelligent question, here; I understand temporarily revoking all admin rights until you sorted it out, to avoid being banned again. But why shut down the site for ANY period of time, in consequence punishing the little-folk for one morons actions? You really do need to help us to understand what is going on in your head. If you can do this without throwing some sort of an insult at someone, you may have a chance at saving your site. But at the rate these talks are going, you are going to lose not only the majority of your patrons, but also 9/10ths of your homebrew material. I love this site and the immense material that it holds, but if you continue on your current path, I am sorry to say that I will be one of the ones that leaves for the greener pastures of the newly created site. I do hope you chafe course and help us to understand what is going on in your head tho. --[[User:Sabreheim|Sabreheim]] 00:50, 16 August 2009 (MDT)

: Just wanted to speak up, it's true that it ''did'' inconvenience us "little folk" when the site went down. That same day I had wanted to show someone my guide for a game they had the same day to show them the basics of character building, but was unable to due to the site being completely down and short messages taking its place. --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 00:54, 16 August 2009 (MDT)

:: Er... Aarnott is not a moron. What he did was in line with the Wikipedia policies that this site adheres to and was meant to tell Green Dragon that he was acting way out of line. The act, itself, was perfectly called for; Green Dragon was banning people attempting to talk to him about what he'd done and, by extrapolating from this sequence of events, it's safe to say that saying "wtf r u doin" on his talk page would have gotten Aarnott banned as well, in whatever kind of blind fury that had overtaken Green Dragon.
:: As noted, Sabreheim's post is completely misinformed, then. The site probably won't lose most of it's good homebrew material because Green Dragon probably won't let it happen; nevermind he's done it before, he doesn't seem to be accepting Speedy Deletion (again, part of the policies he's noted this wiki adheres to, time and time again), this is probably due to his realization that people ARE leaving and he doesn't want to lose traffic or articles. Maybe someone should have thought about that before... --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 10:35, 16 August 2009 (MDT)

== Thank You! ==

I just wanted to say thank you for the welcome and mention that I hope my presence here can help the community. :) I have some homebrew items to add that I'm not sure how to make up---the HTML here is tricky---but I will be going over the editing pages to find out how to add them. One final thing, though: Where would diseases go on the Wiki? I have quite a few medieval illness piled up and would like to add them. [[User:Chimandera|Chimandera]] 03:45, 17 August 2009 (MDT)

:I made a new section: [[3.5e Diseases]]. I would love to hear what you think about it or what could be improved with it (if needed). --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 21:38, 19 September 2009 (MDT)

::The page is good, though I am having a difficult time trying to figure out what a naturally-caused disease (bacterial, viral, etc) would be in the scheme of Su, Ps, Sp or Ex. I'm going to mark it as Ex for the moment, unless you can somehow change that to include Nd or Na for "Naturally occuring diseases" (though I am aware this would involve adding a new page to the homebrew to explain away the natural aspects). As for the explanation of the disease, I'll have to look them up again, heh. It looks great and thanks again! [[User:Chimandera|Chimandera]] 12:50, 20 September 2009 (MDT)

== Permissions Issue ==

I have an issue maintaining the SRD. I've lost the ability to edit. --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 05:40, 17 August 2009 (MDT)

:Ah, you must have missed the wikipocalypse. There is a very good summary of it [[User talk:Calidore_Chase#To_recap|here]]. If you want a link to the new wiki, feel free to [[User:Daniel_Draco#Contact|contact me]] for it. --Daniel Draco 13:08, 17 August 2009 (MDT)

::I'll give them back soon. Sorry I just had an issue with the backend of D&D Wiki (and a bit of the frontend as well) and as a result permissions were changed (for the moment I am the only bureaucrat and only admin). I'll give them back in a few days, I'm just letting things calm down a bit, etc. If you need them now (I trust you enough) could you let me know please within a few hours? I am going to drive for a few days and will not have internet for a bit; so if you let me know sooner then later I will have time to give them back to you. Also I am going to keep it with me being the only bureaucrat; just so you know. But I will give back all the admin privileges soon (or now - depending). --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 14:39, 17 August 2009 (MDT)

::: So... basically this wiki will go unadmined for a few days? >_> I've reverted vandalism on at least 2 pages (don't remember if I did others) and the offender wasn't blocked. If you're away or aren't keeping watch on the wiki, at the very least assign people who will block vandals, take on administrative duties, and so on? --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 14:45, 17 August 2009 (MDT)

::::I know. I have been re-thinking about which admins I can trust on D&D Wiki and am not positive if I want to give back admin rights now and/or to whom. Although I see what you mean. I will post another thing before I head off a bit after I think about it a bit more. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 14:55, 17 August 2009 (MDT)

:::::I will have internet once again around the 19thish. I'll (for the moment) keep userrights how they are - although probably on the 19th or 20th I will reinstate them. If people would not mind please keep an eye out for vandals (and thanks already [[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] for doing so). And sorry about that SRD issue - I hope waiting a few days will work as well. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 15:39, 17 August 2009 (MDT)

::::::I can wait until the bullets stop flying. When I get time, I'll wade through the vast arguments going. I only look at SRD changes on a daily basis, so I am amazingly ignorant of the recent iconoclasm. --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 05:55, 18 August 2009 (MDT)

:::::::Alright. Also I will give permissions back when things have calmed down; no need to worry. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 16:09, 21 August 2009 (MDT)

==Professionalism==

Hmm, lots of chatter these days about admin drama. Even us little-known users have taken notice. Looks like a few admins are displeased. We little-known users hope this minor conflict will all be resolved soon. I myself would like to thank GreenDragon for cancelling the Rating Group idea. IMO it was a thoughtful decision. I would also like to thank all Admins for the great work they do and have done on behalf of the community. Thank you all Admins for your wonderful ideas and contributions. We small-town users look forward the resolution of this minor conflict of interest. --[[User:Jay Freedman|Jay Freedman]] 15:32, 17 August 2009 (MDT)

:The problem is that he ''didn't'' cancel it. He stated that he didn't like idea. He never vetoed it. He never said that he was putting any authority into his disagreement. All disagreement he stated was phrased conversationally. It wasn't until he '''''banned''''' TK-Squared for starting to implement it that we had any indication that he was giving it an official "no". Using such an aggressive action as a ban as the first indication of a veto is, in my opinion, not professional at all.
:I would also like to point out that the issue has been resolved. The resolution is that those of us who don't feel that we can trust Green Dragon anymore have moved to a new wiki (which I will gladly link to you [[User:Daniel_Draco#Contact|via private means of communication]]). --Daniel Draco 16:02, 17 August 2009 (MDT)

==Vandalism==
I have reason to believe that TK has resorted to vandalism[http://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?limit=50&title=Special%3AContributions&contribs=user&target=TK-Squared&namespace=&year=&month=-1] in his disgust with you. Admins have better ability to control this than I, and I really don't feel like running around in circular thought with an individual anymore. Could you try to step in on this? Thanks.  [[User:Hooper|''' Hooper ''']][[User talk:Hooper|  talk  ]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|  contribs  ]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|  email  ]] 18:23, 18 August 2009 (MDT)

: Shame he saw fit to demote all his System Operators because of his tantrum, ain't it? I sure could just get Surgo down here right now to do something about it. What a shame, looks like I get to do what I want with my work, eh? Now, stop vandalising my pages. --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 18:26, 18 August 2009 (MDT)

::You realize that your above statement just proves your own childishness. Maybe Green Dragon was wrong to begin with, but now he is fully justified. D&Dwiki is a collaborative effort. You have repeatedly refused to collaborate with other individuals. This should be the final straw. GD, if available, I would like to open up a Request for Ban on TK.  [[User:Hooper|''' Hooper ''']][[User talk:Hooper|  talk  ]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|  contribs  ]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|  email  ]] 18:28, 18 August 2009 (MDT)

::: You're not quite getting it, are you? The Ratings Committee? That was a "collaborative effort". Quite a few people agreed on it, so I went about helping realize the dream. So, where was the "community" when Green Dragon said "No, you're banned for doing this"? I don't know; maybe you're feigning ignorance or maybe this internet is REALLY getting to you, you throw around thinks like "being childish" and "your argument now sux" and "refusal to collaborate with others".
::: And it's hilarious. This entire thing; hilarious. Especially since Green Dragon's gone for 2-3 days. Dear, oh dear. Looks like I'll actually have control over my own creations, what a novelty. Chill out, relax. Play some b-ball outside-a school. Would you have your oral orifice so wrapped if you were banned during the tantrum? Dear, oh dear. But, at least you've stopped vandalising my pages. Chin chin, old chap. --18:36, 18 August 2009 (MDT)

::::The thing is Liam, I do understand, and I personally feel like GD overstepped and was wrong too. You know how you win in a situation like this? Obviously not, because devolving into vandalism kills any argument you had. Now you're no better than what you said he was, and you have no high ground to stand on. Revert to your typical "e-bullying" trying to make yourself feel better, but I'm not impressed. You reacted incorrectly to the situation, and for as much as you talk about being mature, you repeatedly showcase that you are not. I require no response from you, good day.  [[User:Hooper|''' Hooper ''']][[User talk:Hooper|  talk  ]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|  contribs  ]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|  email  ]] 18:41, 18 August 2009 (MDT)

::::: Yeah, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikihounding#Posting_of_personal_information Liam]. I'd like to request a ban from George here for calling me weird names. --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 18:54, 18 August 2009 (MDT)

::::::You admitted your identity in the Tavern smart one (remember, I'm the one who combs through the Tavern histories!). Freely given information may be freely repeated. Those who lose their sense of anonymity tend to lose their e-peen bullying nature as well.  [[User:Hooper|''' Hooper ''']][[User talk:Hooper|  talk  ]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|  contribs  ]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|  email  ]] 19:01, 18 August 2009 (MDT)

::::::: So... are we using wikipedia policies? Or not? Or only when it's convenient? --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 19:02, 18 August 2009 (MDT)

:::::::: All my actions are within the Wikipedia Policies. Please brush up, Timothy. Furthermore, oh no; my name is been revealed. OH SHIT, IF ONLY PEOPLE DIDN'T FIND OUT I'm LIAM BENJAMIN WHITE. Oh wait. Nice try, Hooper, nice try. But, you're still not funny enough; try to add some irony or wit! --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 19:09, 18 August 2009 (MDT)

:::::::::Sure, your last name is "[[w:Dodds_(surname)|White]]." Sure thing. Yawn.  [[User:Hooper|''' Hooper ''']][[User talk:Hooper|  talk  ]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|  contribs  ]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|  email  ]] 19:12, 18 August 2009 (MDT)

:::::::::: Sure is. Why? Worried someone lied on the internet? Should have your stalking up to date, buddy. I saw what you tried to do with the yawn there, but it just didn't have any kick to it. I mean, I know being funny doesn't come natural to some people (unlike myself, of course), but at least try. Go on, put some effort into it, George. --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 19:18, 18 August 2009 (MDT)

:::::::::::I second [[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]]'s thoughts above. (Sorry Ghost, just saw that).  [[User:Hooper|''' Hooper ''']][[User talk:Hooper|  talk  ]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|  contribs  ]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|  email  ]] 19:21, 18 August 2009 (MDT)

::::::::::::Woah, sorry about that. Got called away to do some cool stuff, etc. Anyway, as I was saying; you've got to try to be funnier. If you get a few jokes in, a few witty quips and maybe touch on some irony, you'll loosen up, y'know. Also, still doing Hunter? I tried Hunter once, got to 40 and changed from BM to Marksman. Totally a mistake, I think, and stopped playing it. Oh, and, er... Stop agreeing with people, or something. --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 19:45, 18 August 2009 (MDT)

:::::::::::::Wow, [[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] I think you need a break. First off insults are not a good option, stalking is not a good option, and overall I think you need to take a break for a bit. I think (instead of posting things all the time) you should spend 30 minutes thinking about the rating commitie thing (and what it could mean), that websites have backends, and that some people are shit as people. After that maybe you should post; keeping in mind civility. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 00:18, 19 August 2009 (MDT)

{{Discussion Indentation Revert}}

:What, exactly (and I mean that), is your objection to the Rating Committee? I was not as for it as others, but it did seem like a step in the right direction, so I'm curious as to why you are so adamantly opposed to it. And please don't call me stupid for calling it a step in the right direction, I just want to know why you hate it so. -- [[User:Jota|Jota]] 01:38, 19 August 2009 (MDT)

::First off as a system the template reviewing system is much better then the rating system (with the goal in mind of improving content). Other then that reason there is no reason for a committee; one can also find people and email then about things to keep everything in check or to check articles for completeness in any case. Adding a fake hierarchical tier onto D&D Wiki for no reason is pointless and counterproductive in my mind. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 21:43, 19 August 2009 (MDT)

:::"First off as a system the template reviewing system is much better then the rating system (with the goal in mind of improving content)."
:::I feel the need to point out here that this claim is completely unsubstantiated. If, to quote you, "we use logic here", then statements must be proven in order to be accepted as truth (according to the very definition of logic). --[[User:Daniel Draco|Daniel Draco]] 00:01, 20 August 2009 (MDT)

:::: I've had disagreements with several other users as to what's "balanced" or not. If there was such a committee, would it make my comments worth less than those of people who were on the committee? Would they be disregarded out of hand? Who would make sure they weren't? What if the committee couldn't disagree on what's balanced? Why should they have the primary say in what's balanced and what isn't? As human beings, we're all biased. On a public forum such as this where everyone should be equal, it doesn't feel right that there are those who count for more--the obvious exception being admins of course, since admin duties require a level of authority beyond that of general users for locking pages, blocking vandalists, etc. --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 00:06, 20 August 2009 (MDT)

:::::I have a few thoughts on the matter, some of which are in accordance with what you (Green Dragon) just professed, other that are not.
:::::#I agree that the template system is advantageous in that anyone can apply templates, but if the two systems have different goals (read on) the superiority of the template reviewing process should be expected.
:::::#With that said, there's no reason why the two systems could not exist side by side. The template reviewing system exists to bring articles up to an acceptable quality (improvement), while a rating committee would exist to acknowledge articles of superior quality (recognition). That's what I think the rating committee idea was at least in part about. There are thousands of 'useable' articles on the wiki, yet we have had only five featured articles (one of which, [[Cassia (3.5e Deity)|Cassia]], we seemed to agree was not really FA quality). To put it in a more tame light, a rating committee would be a compromise between the five featured articles in existence and a mountain of unsorted mediocrity.
:::::#You say fake hierarchical tier... given that some of the users in question were just that, users, you have a point, and I understand your concern. But if you were to have a category or rank for these users, such as sysop or moderator, or whatever (something other than generic user--pardon my unfamiliarity with the subject matter) then said hierarchy would not be fake, but rather real. If such status were obtained the same way as a Request for Adminship and could be lost in the same manner, that would mitigate a few of the concerns, I think. Having certain limitations or requirements, such as a mandatory X articles reviewed per month but no more than Y nominations per month would ensure an activity level that the template reviewing system can only dream of. Committee members could be exempt at times due to other responsibilities (i.e. life), but you get the idea. There's nothing that creates interest like progress. Knowing your article is in queue for a look over by someone relatively well-respected within the community--it gives an incentive that the template reviewing process cannot really emulate.
:::::#As for the reasoning for such a committee, well it's really about recognition, isn't it? We are all on here for various reasons, whether is to share our own ideas or to borrow from those of others, but I don't think anyone posts anything in that hope that it sits ignored for all eternity. That's the other nice thing about a rating committee, that it could recognize more than our numerical class rating system can. Flaws, feats, weapon enhancements, whatever: ingenuity rewarded wherever it may be found, not just in a select area that commands variable levels of interest from different users.
:::::In conclusion, I'm not sure that such a system would work now even if you were to endorse it, because to be frank, there aren't that many users here I would trust with that power (and let's face it, that's what it is, and you are right to be cautious with how such authority is distributed). Anyway, like the disenchanted and departed members of the wiki maintained, this was supposed to be in the best interests of the wiki. There's no reason you couldn't give it a trial run and see how you, and the community at large, like it. I will address Ghostwheel's just added concern in a moment, but right now I want to get this up for consideration. -- [[User:Jota|Jota]] 00:10, 20 August 2009 (MDT)

::::::@Ghostwheel: to answer your concern, you have balance points. That way, Tome classes can be well-received within their own vacuum, and so can other classes with more orthodox power levels. My other thought would be that the committee wouldn't look over each submitted article as a whole (that would take far too long), but rather one person would review an article, and it would be taking off the waiting list. If the article's author was unsatisfied, they could re-submit it, and when it's time came it would have to be reviewed by a different committee member than the original reviewer. -- [[User:Jota|Jota]] 00:17, 20 August 2009 (MDT)

::::::: If it's as you described it, it seems more like a committee whose purpose is finding articles, making sure their quality (not balance) is up to snuff, and potentially making them featured articles--that doesn't sound bad in the least. However, about Tome classes being in their own vacuum, perhaps we should make some sort of template for tome classes that adds the caveat explaining in what sort of environment the Tome classes were made for--that is, one in which all the clerics use DMM to buff themselves to incredible heights, the wizards are gods, and druids roam the landscape (if I'm understanding correctly). That said, [[Jester_(3.5e_Class)|there]] [[Thief-Acrobat_(3.5e_Class)|are]] [[Assassin,_Tome_(3.5e_Class)|a]] [[Monk,_Tome_(DnD_Class)|few]] [[Knight,_Tome_(3.5e_Class)|Tome]] [[Fighter,_Tome_(3.5e_Class)|classes]] [[Shadowdancer,_Tome_(DnD_Prestige_Class)|that]] feel balanced for the most part, even in games that don't use [[User:Ghostwheel/3.x_Banned_List|cheesy]] (at least IMO) material. --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 00:43, 20 August 2009 (MDT)

::::::::To be frank, balance is a part of quality. But as you say, the goal of a rating committee would be to, in my mind, find quality articles, not balanced ones (although as I say, the two do tend to go hand in hand). For classes, I would say that [[User:Jota#Ratings|anything I rate a 17 or above]] on the current scale would get my vote (were I on such a committee), which includes articles for which I have had some reservations about their power. A 12.50 or so out of 15 (no flavor/formatting) might also suffice. Other material is a little different, but that's all semantics right now. As for your other idea, talk of something similar happened in the past, although it was never implemented. Part of the reason was the disclaimer was incorrect, since Tome material is not the explicit creation of solely Frank and K: -- [[User:Jota|Jota]] 01:11, 20 August 2009 (MDT)

::::::::[[Template:Frank and K material]]

::::::::: Hmmm... perhaps it might simply be worded differently? Something along the lines of, "This page contains materials based on the original work created by Frank & K. As such, it has been made with the concept in mind that a character of a certain level should be able to take on creatures with a CR equal to their level without much trouble, as well as assuming a certain power level of all characters, and is balanced in a way as to allow for this."
::::::::: However, even with this I'm unsure if it would work, since many people wouldn't understand exactly what this meant--that clerics go crazy with DMM, wizards go before everyone else with Celerity, and druids become bears that fly around, summoning whirlwinds and shooting fire from their eyes, so without some sort of explanation somewhere just that might be problematic.
::::::::: Also, even that text is misleading; for me, ToB + XPH material is where I find my "sweet spot" for balance, and many of the classes presented there (no, I don't mean the Soulknife) are able to take down a monster of their CR (though the CR guidelines have their own problems, but let's not get sidetracked too far) without too much trouble, especially under ideal conditions. Yet these classes are underpowered compared to some of the classes (I'm especially looking at you, Prestige Classes) published under Tome material, which leads to some discrepancy in what we said before. Any thoughts on the matter? --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 01:21, 20 August 2009 (MDT)

::::::::::Perhaps those classes were made with the idea in mind that no prestige class levels would be taken (Tome Barbarian, for example). Most base classes that are not Tome material seem inferior to prestige classes once those PrC's are accessible, given that for many PrC's you can acquire many of the same benefits that the base class would grant you (bonus spell levels for casters, etc.) while also providing unique abilities. Under such an assumption, why would you ever take levels in a base class (say, wizard) again after you have reached the requirements for a desired PrC? As a result, the aforementioned Tome Barbarian is loaded with powerful abilities so that it can be competitive at every level with a prestige-classed wizard even if the player took Tome Barbarian at every level. It's an incentive to go all the way to level 20, which is something that rarely seems to be done with most SRD classes. So, yeah, they probably seem overpowered, at least compared to the SRD Classes that many supporters of Tome material consider so weak that they're almost ineffectual at high levels. Now, this doesn't always seem to be the case with Tome material (in the case of classes that are shortened to 15 levels to allow, one would guess, for PrC advancement).
::::::::::I'm not sure if I was on base with that at all; my head is still whirring from reading the rest of the conversation thus far. Pardon me if I was mistaken. -- [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 06:28, 20 August 2009 (MDT)

{{Discussion Indentation Revert}}

: Close, but not quite what I meant when I mentioned Prestige Classes. You can see my personal philosophy on prestige classes [[Talk:Magus_Portalus_(3.5e_Prestige_Class)|here]] (bottom-most post there currently); thus, prestige classes [[Ninja_of_Gax_(3.5e_Prestige_Class)|that]] [[Paladin_(3.5e_Prestige_Class)|give]] [[Defiler_of_Temples_(3.5e_Prestige_Class)|you]] [[Seeker_of_the_Lost_Wizard_Traditions_(3.5e_Prestige_Class)|casting]] without really losing anything, or having prereqs that force you to sacrifice something don't sit well with me. Straight wizards and clerics are powerful enough as-is without PrC abilities; adding PrCs make them even stronger, which causes imbalance. Do you get what I'm trying to say? --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 12:20, 20 August 2009 (MDT)

::Ah, I see. The tome PrC's essentially are unbalanced because every level adds bonus spellcasting as well as class features (therefore, if they alternated between class features and spellcasting levels, they would be more balanced)? It makes sense, but I'm not 100% sure I agree. I can't really make a rebuttal at this time, but I'll give it some thought. -- [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 14:25, 20 August 2009 (MDT)

:::If they lost even 1 level of spellcasting at 1st level of the PrC, I'd probably say they were a lot more balanced, since then at least they're losing ''something'' to gain all the yummy class features. --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 14:27, 20 August 2009 (MDT)

::::I agree [[User:Jota|Jota]]. Someone (if desirable) should contact MW and see if they could make it so one could make new userprivilege groups (like what you are talking about). I thought about this at the time however I am not positive if MW would ever make that change.
::::Also, here everyone goes who wanted to be part of some fake committee. [[User:Surgo|Surgo]], [[User:Lord Dhazriel|Lord Dhazriel]], [[User:Rithaniel|Rithaniel]], [[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]], [[User:Jota|Jota]], [[User:Ganteka|Ganteka]], [[User:Daniel Draco|Daniel Draco]], [[User:Dragon Child|Dragon Child]], and [[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] (if you guys can only think this small) I appoint you to FA reviewers!!!!! Feel free to nominate articles for FA status, review them for FA status, etc etc. HAVE FUN AND GOOD LUCK!!! --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:01, 20 August 2009 (MDT)

:::::(don't worry everyone else - there is no need to be appointed - only a need to know enough about D&D). --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:05, 20 August 2009 (MDT)

::::::GD, I assume you're being sarcastic? In addition, some of the people you're yelling at had nothing to do with this. They're people I, personally, nomianted, some of which had never even heard about the RC idea. Thus, I hope you don't plan on taking more retaliatory action on the list as a whole. [[User:Dragon Child|Dragon Child]] 20:42, 20 August 2009 (MDT)

:::::::Insubstantially patronizing us, eh GD? That's a fantastic way to get back on our good sides. Note the sarcastic tone in my voice.
:::::::I would also like to point out that nobody wanted to be on a fake committee. That would have been silly.
:::::::Also, if you're going to elevate yourself above the rest of us, that makes you not just the owner, but also the de facto leader. As the leader, you need to display professionalism and respect, or else nobody will take you seriously. Your last comment displayed neither, and in fact displayed the exact opposites of those needed qualities. --[[User:Daniel Draco|Daniel Draco]] 06:28, 21 August 2009 (MDT)

::::::::One does not have to do any of those things in any one of those circumstances. Also, unless one can make userright areas in MW it is a fake committee. At this time one cannot. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 16:12, 21 August 2009 (MDT)

:::::::::I really like the way Green Dragon runs this site. Its like the military. Have a problem? Then the answer is: "To bad. Lifes not fair. Suck it." For guys like me, this makes perfect sense. Keep up the good work Green Dragon. --[[User:Jay Freedman|Jay Freedman]] 16:18, 21 August 2009 (MDT)

{{Discussion Indentation Revert}}

:There are two possibilities there:
:#The internet is a poor medium for sarcasm.
:#You must be oxygen-deprived from receiving a white dragon from Green Dragon. -- [[User:Jota|Jota]] 20:25, 21 August 2009 (MDT)

::@Jay Freedman: Ah, but this is not the military. And even a military setting, without the active participation and satisfaction of the individual the whole will wither and die. To continue your military analogy, this would be like if the sergeant of a company ordered all of his men to charge blindly at a superior enemy with no sound reasoning. The veteran members, sensing flaws in the sergeant's plan, desert quickly after realizing that nothing will change their superior's mind and take all their weapons and ammunition with them. The rest of the company is left with what they have, but without veteran leadership their performance will suffer.

::Poor example aside, let me just say that while GD may have been right in being angry at being banned from his own site, the other admins were in effect pushed towards those measures by repeated occurences of GD punishing those who were only acting in what they had collectively agreed to be the Wiki's best interests (since there has already been a huge quarrel on this issue I will try to speak no more of it). The point is, the site is pretty much irrevocably fractured, with basically the entire trusted user base (some exceptions exist) gone within a period of a few days. Even some who have elected to stay are still left without the admins who helped make this Wiki a better site as well as without a seriously reasonable and unbiased explanation of why the conflict took place (most people who have been reading up on this know that it's pretty much because of the conflict over a possible Ratings Committee proposal, but others who were not involved in said conflict were banned as well).

::As the situation stands presently, there is now a rival Wiki comprising the users who are attempting to form their own vision of D&D Wiki without Green Dragon. There is also a huge pile-up of junk pages and dumb IP edits since none of the admins are left to monitor the day-to-day activities of the Wiki (while he may be the owner of this site, Green is to the extent of my knowledge only one person and can only do so much). In that sense, things now seem in a pretty bad state. How can you concievably call that a good way to run any website, let alone one that basically depends on the contributions of its users for appeal? -- [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 20:57, 21 August 2009 (MDT)

== Daniel Draco's Counterpoints ==

I would like to point out to everyone that GD has once again banned me, for a period of one day, on the basis of my last comment, which he categorized as "Intimidating behaviour/harassment". So, first, my rebuttal:
* CHAPTER ONE -- "Whine Kampf"
:* "As the leader, you need to display professionalism and respect, or else nobody will take you seriously." ''--me''
:* "One does not have to do any of those things in any one of those circumstances." ''--Green Dragon''
:* Huh. Really. Alright, hypothetical situation. Metaphor Incorporated1 is a company2 of moderate size, with happy, active, and loyal staff3. Its CEO4, Sue d'Nim5, has always been capable and at least somewhat reasonable in her6 job. One day, a client7 does something that she6 disagrees with, but which her6 staff3 thought was a good idea. In an action that is universally seen as irrational8, she6 put all her6 staff3 on suspension for an indefinite period of time, regardless of whether or not they were involved. When finally they regain the ability to communicate with her6, Sue d'Nim5 refuses to offer any explanation or apology for her6 words and actions, which continue to be generally irrational8. Fed up with her6 ridiculously inappropriate actions, a leader emerges among the disgruntled staff3: Lee Dur9. He goes off to found a new company2, Metaphors Unlimited10, bringing along with him a good portion of the staff3 and clients7, leaving Sue d'Nim5 behind. The end. Now tell me, if Sue d'Nim5 had been respectful and professional, would she6 have lost so much?
:* Footnotes:
:# The D&D Wiki
:# website
:# admin(s)
:# owner
:# Green Dragon
:# his/he/him
:# user(s)
:# psychotic
:# Surgo
:# Dungeons and Dragons Wiki

* CHAPTER TWO -- "Brain (Dis-)Trust"
:* "I would also like to point out that nobody wanted to be on a fake committee. That would have been silly." ''--me''
:* "Also, unless one can make userright areas in MW it is a fake committee." ''--Green Dragon''
:* "committee: a body of persons delegated to consider, investigate, take action on, or report on some matter" ''--Merriam-Webster''
:* "Assuming we are all persons: had the committee actually formed, we would have been delegated (assigned responsibility and authority) to take action on rating articles; therefore, we would have been a committee." ''--the core principles of logic''
* CONCLUSION
:* I would like to point out that I am fully aware that this post is, somewhat ironically, disrespectful and unprofessional. The differences are that 1) I am not the owner of the site and 2) I have not taken any substantial action with this post, where a substantial action is something such as banning every admin. --Daniel Draco 22:06, 21 August 2009 (MDT)

: Oh, so it's ''Surgo'' who runs the new site? Well, forget ''that'', then. I could barely stand his manner when he was admin... I think I'll stay. -- [[User:Mythos Specialist|Mythos]] 14:39, 22 August 2009 (MDT)

::Wow, it's been a while since I posted here. I haven't really kept up on everything that has been going on, but I don't think my lack of reading is relevant to replying to your comment, Mythos. Surgo is a very good admin for the new wiki. I had my reservations about him before because he can come off as an abrasive individual, but he has really stepped up and done an excellent job. To me, there doesn't even seem to be a choice anymore, however. One stray comment here will randomly provoke a ban (this will probably be my last comment here anyways, so I'm not too concerned about speaking up).

::Surgo doesn't have any interest in leveraging the fact that it is "his website" to get his way. It isn't even hosted by him: he wouldn't even have any grounds to do that if he tried. In fact, there is someone Surgo reports to (so to speak) that if he started acting out of line like a supreme dictator, the community could go this other person to instead of being at his mercy. I don't know about you, but the thought of losing 2 years of my dedication and work at the whim of one person that '''bans people for trying to discuss things rationally''' seems like a bad idea.

::It's not going to make a huge difference to me one way or another if you decide to come to the new wiki or not. I just hope that anyone who thinks "bleck, Surgo is terrible" '''considers carefully''' the choice that they are making. --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 08:59, 23 August 2009 (MDT)

:::And, as always, I will gladly give the link to anyone [[User:Daniel_Draco#Contact|privately]]. --[[User:Daniel Draco|Daniel Draco]] 17:57, 23 August 2009 (MDT)

== Editing someone else's homebrew class ==

You may have noticed that I've taken an interest in the jewelmancer class, and it seems to have been abandoned by it's creator, but not marked for deletion (therefore un-open to adoption). I just want to be sure that I won't be causing any problems if I make extensive edits like what I posted on the discussion page. I've read the wiki behaviour guidelines, but I know that there tends to be certain customs in groups that aren't always spelled out, so I figured I would ask before hand to be sure I don't cause any trouble. I'm also new to doing such intensive edits on a wiki page, and perhaps a bit shy about it. Thank you for your time.

== Your New Adoption Policy ==

If I can get the original author to agree, or even if that isn't that case, could pages liked TK-Squared's, and whomever wants their material deleted simply be locked instead of removing the author template and putting them up for adoption? I say this because you have [[User:Jeeves|some ignorant asshole]] running around changing things that other people liked and rated highly into something entirely different. I can understand your desire to keep this material because most of it is pretty good, but I think if you want to do that it would be better to lock it with the original author template rather than put these things up for adoption. Most of them are finished anyway, so it's not like you'd be locking something half-completed. Afterward they can be maintained in the same manner that Dmilewski maintains the SRD: post it on a talk page, and an admin can make the requisite corrections. My big issue with this is credit where credit is not due. -- [[User:Jota|Jota]] 06:56, 25 August 2009 (MDT)

:I find it interesting that a user pops up immediately after the adoption thing comes up, and is very knowledgeable in the workings of the wiki. I hate to cast doubt on anyone, and would love to be proven wrong, but I feel like the user may be someone else trying to abuse or make little of the adoption change. Just thoughts.  [[User:Hooper|''' Hooper ''']][[User talk:Hooper|  talk  ]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|  contribs  ]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|  email  ]] 08:01, 25 August 2009 (MDT)

::Wow, play nice guys. Maybe this chap could become a big contributor to the wiki. Ain't stuff here always submitted with the warning "If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly and redistributed at will, then don't submit it here." I mean he did adopt the stuff legit. Of course, I have noticed his idea's of balance are different. But that could be a good thing right? --[[User:Jay Freedman|Jay Freedman]] 10:17, 25 August 2009 (MDT)

:::Yeah, after re-reading the above I came across wrong. I just want us to be cautious after recent events, to make sure people don't try to sabotage anything. But after re-reading this particular persons contribs, I actually personally agree with some of the changes. Mostly seems legit, just different from the original author's intent. That is going to be a touchy subject. Personally I'll play it safe and just make variants if I want to change something, to try to keep the peace.  [[User:Hooper|''' Hooper ''']][[User talk:Hooper|  talk  ]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|  contribs  ]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|  email  ]] 10:42, 25 August 2009 (MDT)

:::: While I am not entirely pleased with these gross and misinformed edits on my once-beautiful and nigh-perfect creations, I suppose attempting to do anything about it would only allow me to revel in the backlash from ardent "supporters", although not the exact word I planned to use, of Green Dragon's nigh-despotic regime, so I'll do simply what I can.

:::: All pages "adopted" by Jeeves that were once my creations or were adopted previously by me '''do not''' have my permission to be redistributed/altered (kept on this wiki) under the title that I published them in, include all previous revisions. This is my right as the original creator of the material under the GNU Free Documentation License 1.2 (GFDL) and cannot be argued with (GFDL Section 4, Subsection A). Furthermore, I expect an exact copy of all my previous versions to be kept in the history, otherwise this will contravene the GFDL Section 4, Subsection I.

:::: This should be done quickly and with efficiency. I do not include the adoption of my articles by Jota at this current time, since he has not made any edits to them and they are, essentially, still my work and have not been redistributed and/or altered. Thanking you for your swift compliance with my wishes. --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 13:39, 25 August 2009 (MDT)

:::::TK, as long as the history of an active page is shown - it meets all the requirements. You may be misinterpreting that bit of the text of License. There was even a wikipedia arbitration case on the matter way back in the day. Plus, you didn't catch this part: ''"You may not use technical measures to obstruct or control the reading or further copying of the copies you make or distribute."''. Not saying I agree either way, just putting it here.  [[User:Hooper|''' Hooper ''']][[User talk:Hooper|  talk  ]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|  contribs  ]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|  email  ]] 13:47, 25 August 2009 (MDT)

{{quote|A. Use in the Title Page (and on the covers, if any) a title distinct from that of the Document, and from those of previous versions (which should, if there were any, be listed in the History section of the Document). ''You may use the same title as a previous version if the original publisher of that version gives permission.''|orig=[http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/fdl.html GNU Free Distribution License]]}}

:::::: --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 13:51, 25 August 2009 (MDT)

:::::::The wording of that bit doesn't make sense in regards to wikis, it is very ambiguous. Does it mean previous version of the same page, or previously deleted page by the same title? Two different things. Hmmm. Looking into.  [[User:Hooper|''' Hooper ''']][[User talk:Hooper|  talk  ]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|  contribs  ]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|  email  ]] 13:55, 25 August 2009 (MDT)

:::::::Reading legal text is like running in circles. Or nascar. But after reading and going through support pages on it, it appears like its basically right. But it has never had to been enforced because people either outright delete the pages or they just move the page to a new page name, both of which are legal apparently. Odd. GNU Free is about four legal loopholes away from public domain.  [[User:Hooper|''' Hooper ''']][[User talk:Hooper|  talk  ]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|  contribs  ]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|  email  ]] 14:22, 25 August 2009 (MDT)

::::::::To touch on another thing, could you please expound on why Sulacu's name should be removed from the deviant page? I'm not sure I understand your reasoning. -- [[User:Jota|Jota]] 22:11, 25 August 2009 (MDT)

:::::::::You cannot license that license. We use the GNU FDL not the GFLD. -- [User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:13, 25 August 2009 (MDT)

::::::::::this: ::::::::::The "GFDL" '''is''' the [[GNU Free Documentation License]]. Your latest edits violate section 4, part B, of that license (which all the content on this wiki is licensed under). -- {{User:Wolf_Dancer|Wolf_Dancer]] 9:20, 25 August.

:::::::::::Oh, that. It's called the history tab - I am not sure if you have ever heard about it or not. Like on Wikipedia (pretty sure). Sorry, I thought you were talking about the GGPL; above I mean. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:31, 25 August 2009 (MDT)

{{Discussion Indentation Revert}}

:When you say 'you cannot license that license'... are you referring to me? I'm still not sure you've answer my question... -- [[User:Jota|Jota]] 22:36, 25 August 2009 (MDT)

::History tab. Wikipedia does not even use authors; fyi. And they use the same license. I please say do not talk if you do not know what you are talking about. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:41, 25 August 2009 (MDT)

:::You don't need authors to present facts. No one invents a fact, it just is. In contrast, the deviant is Sulacu's creation regardless of where it is presented, and it would not have existed had she not taken the time to create it. As far as that other stuff, I couldn't really give two expletives about Wikipedia policies since sometimes this site seems to follow them, at other times not so much. Furthermore, you could do a better job of not being so demeaning. There were edits between yours and mine; how am I to know who you are addressing with your run-on sentences? -- [[User:Jota|Jota]] 22:52, 25 August 2009 (MDT)

::::'''DO NOT SUBMIT COPYRIGHTED WORK WITHOUT PERMISSION!''' means that it is under the GNU FDL. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:54, 25 August 2009 (MDT)

:::::To respond to one of Hooper's earlier points, I agree that technical measures can't be taken to prevent work from being viewed or copied on a Wiki. But in this particular case, the [[User:Jeeves|person]] adopting TK's work is editing it, which goes beyond the idea of copying it for redistribution. I don't know anything about Wikipedia's policies (in all honesty, I am of the opinion that a Wiki such as this cannot and should not be governed by the same rules as Wikipedia), but the fact remains that Jeeves is taking credit for TK's work when all he did was emasculate the classes under the ''false'' premise that they are overpowered. He didn't use any normal things (like, say, the discussion page, a balance template, or some combination of both); all he did was change the numerical values of the class from acceptable to piss-poor and take all the credit for their good points when all he did was make them suck. Original homebrew work that has been judged to be of good quality (like much of the work left by TK and others has) deserves just as much respect as SRD material (especially because quite a bit of SRD material sucks). -- [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 07:00, 26 August 2009 (MDT)

::::::@Jay Freedman: Additionally, even if he legitimately adopted it, what's the point of changing an adopted work when the general community was pretty much happy with it (a 20/20 rating with no arguments to the contrary sounds like that to me)? If he wanted to make his own terribly underpowered, dirt-eating variant, he could go ahead and do so by making his own version on a seperate page. "Edited mercilessly and redistributed at will" should imply that they can take it and use an edited version for themselves, not change that actual work already present on the page. Adopted or not, his changes are simply a load of crap. In my opinion, if he ever becomes a big-time user, this place will really have gone to hell. -- [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 07:12, 26 August 2009 (MDT)

:::::::@TG Cid. Yeah, his edits are pretty cocky. It would seem like a silly thing to do, to assume your judgement is better than this communities. I was hoping his edits would be positive. Guess I'm just a nice guy... Anyway. I hope he decides to fix his edits and just create varients. (Everybody loves Varients right? Hell yeah!) --[[User:Jay Freedman|Jay Freedman]] 10:46, 26 August 2009 (MDT)(and may the force by with you)

::::::::Ya, one can always respond about his edits on that articles talk page. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:13, 26 August 2009 (MDT)

== Candidates for Deletion ==

I was going through the "Wanted Categories" page, making categories not redlinked and such. I ran across the old '''[[:Category:Candidates for deletion]]''' from before the time we did Deletion the way we do now. Anyways, it has a few articles that still link to it - and I was going to remove it from the page and place them up for proper deletion, but the pages continuously reload and do very odd stuff, and I cant remove them. Could you take a look at it and see what it does for you? Thanks.  [[User:Hooper|''' Hooper ''']][[User talk:Hooper|  talk  ]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|  contribs  ]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|  email  ]] 10:24, 29 August 2009 (MDT)

:Linked. I think that should work, if not I'll revert. -- [[User:Jota|Jota]] 10:29, 29 August 2009 (MDT)

::Okay, I was finally able to work around it. They were all made by the same user, [[User:Eyedog|Eyedog]], and he was using '''deletepage''' instead of just '''delete''', and it was doing some weird stuff. I've restored all the content to the pages and placed the proper deletion tag on it.  [[User:Hooper|''' Hooper ''']][[User talk:Hooper|  talk  ]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|  contribs  ]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|  email  ]] 11:38, 29 August 2009 (MDT)

:::[http://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Template:Delete&diff=prev&oldid=289062]. Actually that category was the old category in [[Template:Delete]] (one can change it... I have no idea how stupid you guys are...). It was also used as a medium category too; by the way. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:38, 19 September 2009 (MDT)

== My Pages ==

Could you please go ahead and lock them? --[[User:Daniel Draco|Daniel Draco]] 17:34, 29 August 2009 (MDT)

:I gave back userrights (save for your RfA) so anyone can. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 17:59, 29 August 2009 (MDT)

::Could you please add [[Template:Locked Page]] to them as well please, [[User:Lord Dhazriel|Lord Dhazriel]] (or someone)? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:03, 29 August 2009 (MDT)

:::Ok I take care of that. --[[User:Lord Dhazriel|Dhazriel]] 19:42, 29 August 2009 (MDT)

::::Done. --[[User:Lord Dhazriel|Dhazriel]] 00:40, 30 August 2009 (MDT)

:::::Thanks a lot for doing that, by the way. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:33, 19 September 2009 (MDT)

== Request ==

I would like to the deletion of most of my uncompleted work, I can do so with my administrative power but I want to make sure the pages won't be restored (I will put the pages I don't like to adoption). Thank you for your understanding. --[[User:Lord Dhazriel|Dhazriel]] 18:13, 31 August 2009 (MDT)

:Lord Dhazriel, if you're leaving or just deleting some old work, please, let me go through the stuff you've published and possibly not finished. There's a lot of good ideas you had started that somebody ought to preserve... I'll do it, even. -- [[User:Mythos Specialist|Mythos]] 21:48, 31 August 2009 (MDT)

::You should just add the template and have it go through the standard process (see if anyone wants to adopt it, etc. Just like everyone normally does.). --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:58, 31 August 2009 (MDT)

:::I know, however unfinished campaign setting or work compendium may be a little out of line for adoption. Also Mythos, feel free to adopt anything I put in adoption. This is why I am requesting the ability to delete these by bypassing the normal process. --[[User:Lord Dhazriel|Dhazriel]] 00:17, 1 September 2009 (MDT)

::::I mean why? They are still good ideas if one does decide to adopt it. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 01:24, 1 September 2009 (MDT)

:::::Well I can't see how someone can actually adopt my work compendium. --[[User:Lord Dhazriel|Dhazriel]] 10:28, 1 September 2009 (MDT)

::::::Move it to a / of their usernamespace? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:02, 2 September 2009 (MDT)

== Template:PatronageRace ==

GreenDragon, you left a comment on my [[Template:PatronageRace]] page about it needing "to be made into a variant rule section (with sub-pages from the CS)" I don't understand what that means. I am new to wiki'ing, so that all sounds like gibberish to me. I left a comment on the talk page for clarification but haven't gotten a response. Could you explain to me what I need to do? --[[User:Wrecan|Wrecan]] 07:15, 3 September 2009 (MDT)

:See also [[Template talk:PatronageRace#Editing Question]]. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:44, 3 September 2009 (MDT)

:: I responded. You erred. These are not variant races and Patronage is not a Third Edition Campaign--[[User:Wrecan|Wrecan]] 07:21, 4 September 2009 (MDT)

:::You left a new comment on my CS page indicatgin I shouldn't have "back to" links at the bottoms of my pages. Where did I include "back to" links on the bottom of any of my pages?! You still insist I have to fix my races, but as I've explained, there's nothing to fix. I don't have any variant races, and now I don't even have race-specific pages!! I don't know what you want, GD. Do you want me not to use Templates at all? Is that the problem? Please explain to me why you still think the way I present races in my CS is an issue because I can't figure it out.--[[User:Wrecan|Wrecan]] 05:35, 8 September 2009 (MDT)

::::Well, in this singular instance of breadcrumbs/back to, I think you misread that, wrecan. You're -supposed- to have breadcrumbs on your pages; the note says that they do not have them right now. If you don't know what this is referring too, I can give you some examples. --[[User:TheWarforgedArtificer|TheWarforgedArtificer]] 07:55, 8 September 2009 (MDT)

:::::I figured out what you meant by "back to" links and eliminated them. Please get rid of that ugly "Needs Formatting" template on my CS page. And, as previously requested, please get rid of the ugly "Needs Formatting" template on my [[Template:PatronageRace]] page. Despite the name of the template, it's not a race template, and the pages that use it are simply describing the make up of different Realms in my CS.--[[User:Wrecan|Wrecan]] 08:00, 8 September 2009 (MDT)

::::::I did misread! Sorry about that. okay. I'll start putting Back to links in. I thought that was optional.--[[User:Wrecan|Wrecan]] 08:04, 8 September 2009 (MDT)

:::::::Actually, you never even got the actual back-to footers, which means that you don't know what they actually are. That's no problem, I'll put a few examples on your pages and you can take it from there. This part, at least, I can help with. I'm as lost as you are with the rest of what GD wants, though. --[[User:TheWarforgedArtificer|TheWarforgedArtificer]] 08:08, 8 September 2009 (MDT)

::::::::Thanks!--[[User:Wrecan|Wrecan]] 08:11, 8 September 2009 (MDT)

:::::::::Wait--oh, you just got it on the anthropophage article. Good job, but man, this is getting confusing, and I've got to leave right about now. --[[User:TheWarforgedArtificer|TheWarforgedArtificer]] 08:16, 8 September 2009 (MDT)

::::::::::I'm a quick study. Thanks for your help. I think I've added Back To links to all my CS articles. Thanks for the help!!--[[User:Wrecan|Wrecan]] 08:34, 8 September 2009 (MDT)

== Protection Request ==

I'd like to request that [[Reflexman (3.5e Optimized Character Build)]] be locked with the needs balance playtesting template. After reviewing the talk page, I feel like short term bans may be needed to myself, Jota, and Ghostwheel for edit warring. However, I still request the page reflect the true current state of the article.  [[User:Hooper|''' Hooper ''']][[User talk:Hooper|  talk  ]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|  contribs  ]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|  email  ]] 13:54, 3 September 2009 (MDT)

:These guys dont need short term bans. They just need to learn from their mistake and move on. (And remember, Jay loves you all equally.) Thanks GD. --[[User:Jay Freedman|Jay Freedman]] 16:31, 3 September 2009 (MDT)

::Bans are not issued by anyone above. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:27, 19 September 2009 (MDT)

== GD edits Reflexman ==

I noticed you where browsing through the Talk page of the Reflexman Build. You where listing warnings for cussing and formatting it for users. I think that is awesome. I really never thought you would actually take the time to browse that puppy for content. If I had an award for above-and-beyond the call of duty, I would give it to you. Good job GD! --[[User:Jay Freedman|Jay Freedman]] 21:39, 3 September 2009 (MDT)

:Agreed. Having one active wiki admin with so much to do paying that much attention to one article, even if it has been a hotbed, well, thanks. Plus, on behalf of us all, apologies on all the formatting issues. I saw how many times you had to fix that. Wow. We suck at talk pages apparently.  [[User:Hooper|''' Hooper ''']][[User talk:Hooper|  talk  ]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|  contribs  ]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|  email  ]] 21:41, 3 September 2009 (MDT)

::I did not finish the formatting if someone wants to do that. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:24, 19 September 2009 (MDT)

==Protection Request==
Hey Green Dragon, I was wondering if I could get a Protection from IP's template placed on my [[Hybrid Elite Warrior (3.5e Class)]]. Thanks. --[[User:Jay Freedman|Jay Freedman]] 13:01, 5 September 2009 (MDT)

:Please, please, please... --[[User:Jay Freedman|Jay Freedman]] 15:32, 5 September 2009 (MDT)(I heard begging helps)

::There's little reason to ask a second time. Either GD hasn't seen this page yet (in which case posting a second inquiry on the same page is useless) or he just hasn't gotten around to doing it yet (hardly an inconcievable scenario, given that he's the only active admin left). Even this reply seems like a waste of bandwidth. Besides, has anyone even tried to edit them (IP's, I mean)? -- [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 16:41, 5 September 2009 (MDT)

:::Um well, no, I guess. This is a preemptive strike. I plan on taking a vacation from this wiki and that article is the only one I want preserved from anonymous hit-an-runs. Seeing as GD is the only active admin. I thought it might be a good idea. And, asking twice makes me appear desperate and mildly determined,(all at the same time). Haha. --[[User:Jay Freedman|Jay Freedman]] 17:02, 5 September 2009 (MDT)

::::I will lock it in given time (when I see this again) but I gave userrights back... any other admin could be asked as well. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 01:34, 9 September 2009 (MDT)

:::::Gotta ask...who are the "other admins"? Given the recent stir up could we get a page set up that keeps a list of "active" admins, so the rest of us know who to contact if we need help and you are busy? -- [[User:Sepsis|Sepsis]] 05:53, 10 September 2009 (MDT)

::::::Well, I am still semi-active... I can lock pages at least once a week.. (just depends on if I remember to check the wiki.) --[[User:Sabre070|Sabre070]] 01:35, 14 September 2009 (MDT)

:::::::Thanks for the response Sabre. I also found the "Meta Page" that has the Admins listed on it (although it is out-of-date and lists many non-Admins on it). I really think it should be moved up a level or two with a direct link to it from the "Main Page" (if it took me a few tries I think most would never find it). But again thanks for your response Sabre. -- [[User:Sepsis|Sepsis]] 09:25, 14 September 2009 (MDT)

::::::::They are actually admins, just don't use this wiki anymore. --[[User:Sabre070|Sabre070]] 15:47, 14 September 2009 (MDT)

:::::::::Many still use this wiki; the list can be found on [[RfA]] (the main blue link). --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:32, 15 September 2009 (MDT)

== Confusing Edit ==

On [[Snake (4e Creature)|one of my pages]] you recently added [[Template:Wikify]] with the following explanation (and I quote): ''The ":" should not be in the Encounter Groups (see preload or Books for reference). Instead an extra line should be added. ALso either a breadcrumb should be added or the current "Back To" footer condensed ("by Level" etc).'' I am not entirely sure what you're trying to say here. There is no colon anywhere in the Encounter Groups section, nor could I find anything else in that section that seemed off, much less something that warranted the template. The second part is also poorly worded, and all I pulled out of it is that you want me to change the Back To footers in some manner. Please clarify what you want changed, as I really am at a loss O.o --[[User:Dracomortis|Dracomortis]] 18:44, 9 September 2009 (MDT)

:I edited the page. If you look at my last edit does that clear up any confusion? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 00:56, 10 September 2009 (MDT)

::Oh, I see what happened. You mentioned the Encounter Groups section, but you actually meant the Lore sections. I feel I should point out, however, that the colons are part of the preload and not something that I specifically added. Might be worth removing them from the preload if it is preferred that they not be added. Also, on the issue of the Back To footer, did you mean that instead of this:
:::Back to [[Main Page]] → [[4e Homebrew|Homebrew]] → [[4e Creatures|Creatures]] → [[4e User Creatures by Level|User Creatures by Level]] → [[4e Level 3 Creatures|Level 3 Creatures]].
::It should be condensed to this:
:::Back to [[Main Page]] → [[4e Homebrew|Homebrew]] → [[4e Creatures|Creatures]] → [[4e User Creatures by Level|User Creatures by Level]]
::If so, that's another minor error you might want to look into, as the preload includes the former example and not the latter. Thanks for the clarification. -- [[User:Dracomortis|Dracomortis]] 12:46, 10 September 2009 (MDT)

:::Oh, your right. I meant the lore section instead, sorry. I must have not been thinking at the time. Although the colons have been removed from the preload for quite some while now ([http://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=4e_Creature_Preload&diff=next&oldid=287610]). If you store a old copy of the preload on your computer you may want to update it (of course not using the old table and switching to the template (which needs to be updated on the preload sometime). And for the breadcrumb I would just use [[Template:4e Creatures Level 7 Breadcrumb]], etc. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 14:00, 10 September 2009 (MDT)

::::Ah, that would be the problem then - I've had my copy of the preload saved for several months now. I've added a breadcrumb for each CR on the page (something I normally do but must have forgotten on that page). Thanks again for taking the time to clarify what needed to be changed. -- [[User:Dracomortis|Dracomortis]] 22:17, 13 September 2009 (MDT)

:::::Ya, I know what you mean. I would imagine another main reason is because the template for the creatures is not added as well. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:33, 15 September 2009 (MDT)

== Clean Up ==

Noticed you hadn't gotten around to organizing the gallery on your user page. I will probably arrange them for you soon if you don't find the time. As a professional artist myself, a clean gallery is a must. Oh, and your talk page is super long and has a million MOI's on it. Time to clean your room GD. Hehe. --[[User:Jay Freedman|Jay Freedman]] 17:50, 15 September 2009 (MDT)(The OCD guy.)

:Ya, I know. I always clean my damn userpage with time (see all the archives). Also, I find that the current layout of the pictures has a nice artistic touch; I find the placement to not only invoke thought and wonder but also stretch ones thoughts. Although, to be honest, they are slowly getting old on my userpage and I may remove them soon. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 10:48, 16 September 2009 (MDT)

::Sounds good. You da' boss. --[[User:Jay Freedman|Jay Freedman]] 17:04, 18 September 2009 (MDT)

:::It's my userpage... You are in charge of your userpage. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:22, 19 September 2009 (MDT)

== What Happened to the Tavern?! ==

Hey, what happened to the tavern. It simply is not working, and the search doesnt seem to be working the same either. Changes? {{Unsigned|Dumai|17:52, 17 September 2009 (MDT)}}

:I need to get a bit more RAM to be able to get the Tavern back up and running with the servers. Most likely I will spend some of the google ads money on buying some more RAM. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:53, 17 September 2009 (MDT)

::What kind of funds need to be raised? Perhaps a fundraiser like years ago?  [[User:Hooper|''' Hooper ''']][[User talk:Hooper|  talk  ]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|  contribs  ]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|  email  ]] 20:54, 17 September 2009 (MDT)

:::I was planning on using some google ads money for RAM but if people think that a little fundraiser should be organized as well I am more then willing. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:57, 17 September 2009 (MDT)

::::I'm sure every bit could help. $5 and $10 here and there can't hurt at least.  [[User:Hooper|''' Hooper ''']][[User talk:Hooper|  talk  ]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|  contribs  ]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|  email  ]] 20:59, 17 September 2009 (MDT)

::::::Do we even HAVE anybody left who still posts here? Besides us three, that is... -- [[User:Mythos Specialist|Mythos]] 10:59, 18 September 2009 (MDT)

:::::::Yes, the site has been just as active lately as ever, only the "tavern crowd" is gone. The site is improving on a daily basis and will continue to do so. In the last 30 days alone there have been over 42 active users (plus plenty of IP edits), so yes, yes we are very active considering.  [[User:Hooper|''' Hooper ''']][[User talk:Hooper|  talk  ]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|  contribs  ]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|  email  ]] 11:05, 18 September 2009 (MDT)

::::::::Thank God. I hated having to go in there to ask for feedback and getting sarcastic commentary. Maybe it's funny to the younger users, but to an old-timer like myself it seemed pretty juvenile and pointless. -- [[User:Mythos Specialist|Mythos]] 13:09, 19 September 2009 (MDT)

:::::::::Same here. I put up with it for years but recently started treating them the same way they treat others and they literally can not handle it. They freak out. Really pathetic actually. I hope this helps others learn how to be properly collaborative in the future.  [[User:Hooper|''' Hooper ''']][[User talk:Hooper|  talk  ]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|  contribs  ]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|  email  ]] 15:44, 19 September 2009 (MDT)

::::::::::Maybe we could have a vote and see if more users like the tavern or not. Thoughts? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:22, 19 September 2009 (MDT)

:::::::::::It could be a good idea. I like the ''idea'' of a wiki chat, but in practice it was nothing more than a distraction from the actual wiki. Voting would be good, especially if removing the tavern could assist in site performance.  [[User:Hooper|''' Hooper ''']][[User talk:Hooper|  talk  ]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|  contribs  ]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|  email  ]] 20:29, 19 September 2009 (MDT)

{{Discussion Indentation Revert}}

:It is my solemn opinion that the Tavern chat system should be repaired and remain. My love for it is unconditional, despite the fact that it tends to be immature in many ways and attract the least virtuous of viewers it was a place I could always count on to give me some source of entertainment or conversation, however minimal. One of the greatest delights I had when I used to frequent this site, as I am beginning to do again presently, was popping onto the Tavern in the middle of looking through articles and thinking about what would be useful in a future campaign. I would always find a witty conversationalist or a helpful tinkerer out and about amidst all of the chaos, and it helped to know I was not alone. The Tavern, in my opinion, is a reinforcement of the comradeship of this Wiki, and can be utilized to go there for quick instant messaging communication instead of relatively sluggish editing of each others pages. My piece has been said for now, and my vote is for keeping the Tavern. --[[User:Harry Mason|Harry Mason]] 15:22, 25 September 2009 (MDT)

::Taking the above, and giving it thought, the Tavern can be a great tool. Especially if the former abrasive temperaments are no longer present, it can be a really great way to bring in new wiki users. Combing through the old logs shows that many potential users were ran off because of the attitude within it. But as Harry shows above, even with that it did great things. Perhaps we should place this discussion on "hold" until the tavern is ready to come back online, and then hold it in a better place so all can discuss ways to make the tavern better and more manageable??  [[User:Hooper|''' Hooper ''']][[User talk:Hooper|  talk  ]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|  contribs  ]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|  email  ]] 15:30, 25 September 2009 (MDT)

:::Bollocks. The crowd that used the tavern (with a few notable exceptions) constantly strayed off-topic, and it came out as bunch of sentence fragments that tried to be witty and failed miserably. Especially TK's "Your mama" jokes, for instance.... I go on there looking for feedback on my work, and everybody would rather take cheap shots than actually offer constructive advice. Although I hate to say it, but for all his snide attitude, Surgo DID point me toward Frank Trollman's material... -- [[User:Mythos Specialist|Mythos]] 02:56, 28 September 2009 (MDT)

::::Well do you guys think it helped more or hurt more? All we need to do is vote... It is all opinion; nothing to discuss. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:27, 28 September 2009 (MDT)

== Mediawiki ==

In going through the media side of the site, I've noticed many users have basically used it as a personal storage unit. It is filled with images that are not used in any articles whatsoever (though unlike wikipedia our images don't always say what pages link to them, odd...). I was wondering if a purging of the mediawiki would help improve the server performance?  [[User:Hooper|''' Hooper ''']][[User talk:Hooper|  talk  ]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|  contribs  ]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|  email  ]] 14:52, 18 September 2009 (MDT)

:I concur. Many of the images I uploaded, (as awesome as the are), are no longer linked to an article. It certainly sounds like a good idea. --[[User:Jay Freedman|Jay Freedman]] 16:58, 18 September 2009 (MDT)

::No. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:20, 19 September 2009 (MDT)

== Ghostwheel's Ban ==

I think [[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] has already paid enough and his ban is over in two day, amybe we could unblock him so he can actually tell his version of the facts? I don't want to do it myself in case you disagreed, it why I ask. --[[User:Lord Dhazriel|Dhazriel]] 18:42, 18 September 2009 (MDT)

:I strongly disagree with this. Firstly, there is no side of any story, as it was just a personal subpage note. Secondly, he showed his lack of respect to honor the ban when he broke policy and posted using his IP. If anything, his ban should be prolonged for that reason alone.  [[User:Hooper|''' Hooper ''']][[User talk:Hooper|  talk  ]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|  contribs  ]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|  email  ]] 18:47, 18 September 2009 (MDT)

::Your both mistaken. With Check User [[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] has not been posting. Or which IP do you mean? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 18:53, 18 September 2009 (MDT)

:::He admitted to it on Surgo's page on the other wiki as well as on another user's page there. I would link, but don't want to spam, as I feel as though that may be.  [[User:Hooper|''' Hooper ''']][[User talk:Hooper|  talk  ]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|  contribs  ]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|  email  ]] 18:56, 18 September 2009 (MDT)

::::[http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=3258703 OBJECTION!] [http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=3258715 DURR...] [http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=3258720 PWNED!] [http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=3258730 UHOH...] [http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=3258734 2xPWNED!] [http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=3258738 WTFPWNED!] --[[User:208.90.100.111|208.90.100.111]] 11:41, 19 September 2009 (MDT)

:::::All I would need is the IP... It's called "Chck User" (please use google at this moment if you are not positive as to what I am talking about). --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:19, 19 September 2009 (MDT)

== Not Twins ==

This may seem redundant to you ''(GD)'' and I, but I thought it would be good to note that we are not the same individual, do not always agree (nor even agree a lot of the times), nor do we even know each other offline. Before the rumors get started, even though some already have.  [[User:Hooper|''' Hooper ''']][[User talk:Hooper|  talk  ]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|  contribs  ]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|  email  ]] 18:56, 18 September 2009 (MDT)

:I don't know you... --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:42, 18 September 2009 (MDT)

== Taking Author Information off Pages ==

Would you please refrain from removing author templates from (my) articles? Whether or not they've priorly been marked for deletion, they should remain associated with their respective principal authors, as per article 4B of [[D&D Wiki:Copyrights|D&D Wiki:Copyrights]]. Thank you. --[[User:Sulacu|Sulacu]] 00:01, 19 September 2009 (MDT)

:History as well... As explained over and over again. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:17, 19 September 2009 (MDT)

::And I am asking you over and over again to refrain from removing the author templates. Being the person identified in the history of these particular pages as the first editor makes this request more than reasonable. --[[User:Sulacu|Sulacu]] 08:04, 20 September 2009 (MDT)

:::It seems you decided to respond to my aforementioned reasonable request by making [http://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Ghast%2C_Deathless_%283.5e_Creature%29&oldid=415512 this] and several other similar edits to my pages, in which you removed yet more author boxes and more references to my personal user category from my pages. What, are you just going to ignore me and merrily continue this scandalous behaviour instead without the courtesy of a direct response? I don't remotely care how much 'cleaner' you think the history is, I will not stand for seeing my work vandalized. '''NOT EVEN BY SITE ADMINS! AM I FINALLY GETTING THROUGH TO YOU!?'''

:::If you want to erase all evidence of my existence from this wiki for what happened back in August, then fine. DELETE ALL MY STUFF. '''ALL OF IT.''' And I'll be happy to stay gone. If you're unwilling to do that, then don't touch it. I expected such sensible and gentlemanly conduct to go without saying, but apparently the word ethics does not mean a thing to you. This is the last time I will ask you this in a civil manner. --[[User:Sulacu|Sulacu]] 12:57, 26 September 2009 (MDT)

::::Usercontributions.... Like how one looks at me. History... to see who has done what to which article. One more non-logical response and I will issue a ban to you. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:41, 26 September 2009 (MDT)

:::::''<"Usercontributions.... Like how one looks at me. History... to see who has done what to which article."''>

:::::... What are these sentence fragments even supposed to mean? The only responses I see that are incoherent and devoid of any logic are yours. Are you just being deliberately vague so you'd have a solid excuse to ban me when I respond? That's not to say that I ''ever'' saw ''anyone'' getting ''anything'' close to a ban for 'non-logic' back when I signed onto this wiki in May 2007. I never saw anyone getting their author box deleted from their articles back then either. Even omitting the fact that the author boxes disappear from my articles, what possible justification could you have for deleting my ''personal user-based category'' (<nowiki>[[Category:User Sulacu]]</nowiki>) from the article pages as well? That's like taking pages out of my user page's dpl lists. Isn't that like undermining the system of my pages on your wiki, as well as a form of 'orphaning pages' or whatever it is called (hence, 'vandalism', if you're too logic-deficient to see where I'm going)?

:::::Seriously, I've had more than enough of your stupid antics, and your pigheaded falling back upon your new favorite word, 'non-logic', which you seem to invoke primarily when people say something you don't like. As a faithful and dedicated contributor to your wiki for over two whole years, and the creator of over three hundred standing pages of homebrew articles currently displayed on the site, please honor my final request to leave those pages be, and stop being such a freaking bludger. A little admission on your side will make this whole affair a lot less smelly, and both our lives a lot easier. --[[User:Sulacu|Sulacu]] 14:27, 26 September 2009 (MDT)

::::::Banned. One needs to be understand civility and understand who is who on D&D Wiki. Stop just pestering people and making problems where none exist. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:25, 28 September 2009 (MDT)

:::::::Out of curiosity, why was Sulacu banned? She was obviously upset that her name was being removed from the things that she had created, so it's not like she did anything wrong. I mean, I know I've not been here a long time, but Sulacu seems to have posted a high amount of quality homebrew, so shouldn't she be entitled to have her name on what she's made? I guess it may just be thinking aloud though. But really, consider if someone should be banned for voicing objections to losing the right to the things they made. I think a good example is if say someone took the Dandwiki from you Green, and removed every trace of you from it. Wouldn't you be upset and slightly protest against it? Obviously I'm not saying that that should happen, but I feel that it is a good example. Please reconsider this flurry of author removals, people merely just want to keep their name on what they've devoted time and effort into. --[[User:Dersius|Dersius]] 16:11, 28 September 2009 (MDT)

:::::::::Although I won't comment on the ban, as far as comparing having a wiki that GD pays to maintain and content that a user freely posts online, it isn't really a good example.  [[User:Hooper|''' Hooper ''']][[User talk:Hooper|  talk  ]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|  contribs  ]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|  email  ]] 18:03, 28 September 2009 (MDT)

::::::::::For the last time or your getting banned too; it's history and usercontributions. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:57, 28 September 2009 (MDT)

:::::::::::What? Is this really what it's come to? I've never talked to you before and you are threatening to ban me for attempting to give my opinion and suggestions on something? Isn't this supposed to be a community-run site? I'm sorry, I'm just a little confused as to why it's suddenly everyone being banned for speaking. You didn't even answer my question, so obviously you are ignoring the average user, which isn't the path that any admin should take. If you feel like being a dictator and banning everyone, go ahead. Go ahead and ban every last person that brought quality work to this wiki. Go ahead and ban until there's no one left except for your butt-buddy troll Hooper and yourself. I'm through here. It used to be a nice place to come to and the community was friendly, and the few times you stopped in the tavern, it was nice to talk to you. What happened to you? Whatever. It doesn't matter. This wiki is going downhill in quality, I just think you are blind to it right now, but you'll realize it here soon. Hooper, I know you are probably reading this too. Stop instigating things over at the Wikia. If you leave us alone, we'll leave you alone. I know I personally just want this whole thing to end and for the separation to be finished quickly and painlessly. With that note, I fully expect to be banned by the dictatorship that this wiki has turned into. Just remember, the First Amendment is in place to protect the unpopular opinion, and you are crushing it beneath your heel by banning everyone who isn't Hooper. Just remember that YOU ruined your wiki by driving off those that kept it running smoothly. --[[User:Dersius|Dersius]] 20:12, 28 September 2009.

::::::::::::I have never said anything to anyone from wikia in my life. You don't know me — don't say that. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 21:17, 28 September 2009 (MDT)

:::::::::::::He said that Hooper was instigating things at wikia.. Geez, if this is the way the administration of this site is I'm not going to put my homebrew on here, I'm going to make sure the people I know don't ruin their work by having it stolen by this wiki.

{{Discussion Indentation Revert}}

:As I haven't even visited the other in seemingly forever, and you guys are here still causing problems - well, you get the picture. Are you done calling people who don't know each other "butt buddys" while also calling them the trolls ''(??? - Irony?)'' so that we can get back to work? You state ''"If you leave us alone, we'll leave you alone."'' yet here you are, when no one is messing with you. Either contribute or stop starting problems. Thanks in advance for your cooperation.  [[User:Hooper|''' Hooper ''']][[User talk:Hooper|  talk  ]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|  contribs  ]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|  email  ]] 06:34, 29 September 2009 (MDT)

::I don't have any take on Sulacu or any other user on this site, really. I only came in and started editing recently, after all, myself. I have been thinking on this for a while, though. Why ''exactly'' is author information being taken off of pages? Watch and History are reasonably insufficient in accrediting the idea of a creature or idea to authors, even if not so terribly important. Since it's homebrew, anyways, I am sure it's not so bad to afford someone that little bit of pride in seeing their name in the author template of their articles. Also, which articles are subject to this? So far, I've only ever seen creatures having their templates removed, which I don't quite understand. [[User:Jwguy|Jwguy]] 01:42, 6 November 2009 (MST)

::::I never said anyone was doing anything on Wikia. I could care less about Wikia — people going to a different site is not a war in my mind. D&D Wiki (about now) averages 8,000 unique visitors a day — I don't care about you. A war is a war in my mind. Think about logically — why in hells name would I care? As long as you guys do not transfer any content from D&D Wiki to Wikia (all the content here is under the GNU FDL v1.2 - putting it under the CC is a violation of the law and liable to be sued) or doing anything related (please see the GNU FDL - I, as the owner of D&D Wiki have the rights, additionally I, as the owner, can invoke aspects of the GNU FDL v1.2 as I wish too).
::::And why is the author template being removed? It hinders reading, and hinders a wiki-structure (editing for improvement not just saying "mine mine mine", etc.) Most people, before editing, do check history and before use many do too (seeing something from an IP is less likely as something, say, which comes from an established user). It just hurts the wiki - removing it helps the overall structure. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:19, 6 November 2009 (MST)

:::::I personally feel as though the author template adds a bit of authenticity to articles of homebrew. Sure, while in some cases, items simply are corrupted or bettered by the many anonymous edits that are to be expected on the internet, but in other cases, it's a nice gesture of pride to find an idea or page that you're proud of, and have your name sitting at the top. All as well, while I may not agree, It's not important, and I suppose I can understand that as a sufficient reason. Thank you for answering. [[User:Jwguy|Jwguy]] 19:50, 6 November 2009 (MST)

::::::(Haha, Jwguy is editing in above me.) Hopefully the author box will be completely removed from all articles and preloads. This is a Wiki. No article submitted to the site is considered static and unchanging. Should you wish to keep your pet projects to yourself, do not submit them here. Under every edit box are the words "''If you don't want your writing to edited mercilessly and redistributed at will, then don't submit it here.''" You have been warned and forewarned. Author boxes are a privilege, not a right. Again, hopefully they will be universally removed. --[[User:Jay Freedman|Jay Freedman]] 15:54, 6 November 2009 (MST)

:::::::Okay, I agree that's it a kind of a gesture of pride to see ones username on a page... But it's also a wiki. However another reason for the removed I see is that it creates editing problems. For example sometimes when I am playing I print something out, correct it, however do not change it since I do not want to have to talk to that author about it. If I was not the owner (rather a standard user or IP) I imagine I would feel more inclined and accepted to change it freely. I feel it creates more freedom for the perfection of content. However I see both sides. Currently I removed them from 4e deities, 4e races, and the preload for 4e creatures (and a few their). Personally I would like to wait a matter of months and see how those sections respond. Already I have seen positive improvements from the 4e deities section by IP's - which is a good sign - however it is still to early to say. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:39, 6 November 2009 (MST)

::::::::Sorry, it was my understanding from most of the wikis that I've been that the colon indentation is used to identify who is replying to whom, as well as keep track of subject. I read your post, Jay, but simply had nothing to say about it, so I went ahead and continued to reply towards Green Dragon's last post, which is the reason for the way I posted. I had assumed this was normal.

::::::::That said, I don't mind, either way. I appreciate you taking the time to appease my curiousity on this matter, however, Green dragon. As said, I like the idea of the authenticity and author templates, but they don't matter so much as to fight over them, to me. If it comes down to it, I'll go around taking them down, myself; I just wanted to get the reasoning for it before I conjectured any of my own, which you've provided, certainly. I can realize what problems you see for it, and they are well based and reasonable for it's exclusion, so really it's just my opinion that differs. Functionality is more important when it comes to this kind of site, I believe, and pride, while a encouraging thing as well, is subservient to that. [[User:Jwguy|Jwguy]] 21:49, 6 November 2009 (MST)

:::::::::@ Jwguy. No problem bro. I figured you had a good reason anyway. Thanks for being so vocal about your opinions. Your not the only one who feels the way you do. Keep up the good work. Peace! --[[User:Jay Freedman|Jay Freedman]] 22:33, 6 November 2009 (MST)

== Why Did You Delete the Bloodline I Posted? ==

I'd like to know why you deleted the optional Bloodline (Brachyurus) I developed and posted.

The only comment I see, and its only a single line in the deletion log, is "This is not OGL".

I would appreciate ''some'' explanation. At the very least, the minimum courtesy of informing me. To top it off, you ''also'' deleted the Discussion topic I started in which I asked for any feedback.

If you don't want new people posting anything, just say so. --[[User:Reddir|reddir]] 21:29, 21 September 2009 (MDT).

:It is from the [[Epic Level Handbook]], right? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 23:00, 21 September 2009 (MDT)

::It is also, according to your [[SRD:Brachyurus|website]], in the SRD? And the Bloodline was entirely my own construction; I am not aware of anything similar that has been published. None of which explains why you would delete the Discussion where I ask for feedback - a perfect place, I would think, to have this discussion. --[[User:Reddir|reddir]] 23:58, 21 September 2009 (MDT)

:::That's ones not from the [[Epic Level Handbook]]... That's SRD (probably MM or who knows). If the bloodlines was your ''own'' creation ''DO NOT'' put "this is from the [[Epic Level Handbook]]" on the bottom of the page. Also [[DnD Discussion|Discussions]] are for ''questions'' (not like a forum...). If you want something reviewed, like always, post it on the damn talk page. Not their. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 16:19, 22 September 2009 (MDT)

::::You are saying that you really thought I copied the bloodline from the Epic Level Handbook? Have you seen the UA style Bloodlines ''anywhere'' but in UA? And does that mean you did not even bother reading what I had written on the Talk page before you deleted it all?
::::Anyway, are you saying you would be fine with me posting the Brachyurus Bloodline I designed if I make it clear that I was the one who put it together?
::::re: Discussions, ok, I hadn't realized it was not a forum. Still, I would have appreciated ''some'' information ''somewhere'' about why you deleted my work. --[[User:Reddir|reddir]] 16:48, 22 September 2009 (MDT)

:::::This is what I saw:
:::::<nowiki> ==== Brachyurus ====</nowiki>
:::::<nowiki> </nowiki>
:::::<nowiki> [[SRD:Brachyurus|Brachyurus]] is the Platonic wolf/canine from the Epic Level Handbook. </nowiki>
:::::<nowiki> {| class="{{d20}}" style="text-align: left;"</nowiki>
:::::<nowiki> |+ {{#anc:Brachyurus Bloodline Traits}}</nowiki>
:::::(from a deleted revisions preview). Or is that part just superficial? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 23:02, 23 September 2009 (MDT)

::::::Should I assume you noticed the "SRD:Brachyurus|Brachyurus" portion of what you quoted? --[[User:Reddir|reddir]] 23:11, 23 September 2009 (MDT)

:::::::That's called a piped link... Not sure if you have ever heard of formatting or not. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 23:33, 23 September 2009 (MDT)

::::::::It seems clear that you are taking the issues behind this discussion much less seriously than I am. Therefore I will stop wasting my time with you. --[[User:Reddir|reddir]] 23:52, 23 September 2009 (MDT)

:::::::::That is a PIPED link. Without the piped link it looks like: "Brachyurus is the Platonic wolf/canine from the Epic Level Handbook."... let's see... can that be here? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:23, 28 September 2009 (MDT)

== When do Unrated homebrew prestige classes become Rated? ==

My Void Knight prestige class now has 2 ratings (3 if my own counts), and I was just wondering how/when exactly the unrated classes were relisted as rated. Edit: Forgot to sign [[User:Desril|Desril]] 15:09, 30 September 2009 (MDT)

:Really it is just a matter of doing the switch. You can alter that yourself.  [[User:Hooper|''' Hooper ''']][[User talk:Hooper|  talk  ]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|  contribs  ]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|  email  ]] 18:46, 27 September 2009 (MDT)

::Once all the ratings have been added one can. Although one cannot just create rating; [[User:Hooper|Hooper]] should have said that one can correct the ratings from the talk page onto the articles page. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:41, 27 September 2009 (MDT)

:::Yes, after reading my post I should clarify that once rated you can add that information to the class page with the proper rating it was given shown.  [[User:Hooper|''' Hooper ''']][[User talk:Hooper|  talk  ]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|  contribs  ]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|  email  ]] 07:14, 28 September 2009 (MDT)

::::Also, if you want to help rate things, please feel free. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:21, 28 September 2009 (MDT)

== Spheres in relation to the Tome of Fiends ==

The sphere pages connected to the Tome of Fiends, namely the Bone, Venom, Carnage and Bubbles, I believe, that you have already reverted, are ''not'', to my knowledge thus far, User items, and are in the sourcebook. Adding the User Category, on that level, is not necessary, nor correct, and it also interferes with the function on the page for the [[Tome_of_Fiends_(3.5e_Sourcebook)/Spheres_and_Feats#Fiendish_Spheres|Spheres]] listing, which has been separated so that User-made Spheres and Official Spheres from the Sourcebook can be better recognized.

If you feel that you are undeniably correct in maintaining that the Spheres you are moving are User made and that perhaps I have been mistaken, please state so and proceed, but if not, and I believe they are not, they should be as they were before the reverting. [[User:Jwguy|Jwguy]] 23:17, 27 September 2009 (MDT)

:Tome Material is not official material from established publisers or OGL - it is just homebrew Frank & K stuff. Thus, it is User content. It is hard to define something as "official" when it is all entirely user homebrew - even if that user homebrew is well established.  [[User:Hooper|''' Hooper ''']][[User talk:Hooper|  talk  ]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|  contribs  ]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|  email  ]] 07:13, 28 September 2009 (MDT)

::Well could we use that Tome article as the rule source? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:21, 28 September 2009 (MDT)
::This is, admittedly, true, given the nature of the Tome of Fiends, itself. Even in that case, however, the Tome of Fiends has no user category, and as a sourcebook, I use 'official' to simply designate those spheres which were created along with the sourcebook. I feel it would be best to separate the Homebrew'd spheres, in respect to the Tome, from those included by the authors, if only to maintain that the standard provided by the author shouldn't be confused with the likely standards of added-in spheres.

::That all said and done, I could simply use another category, which I don't have much of a problem with; I'm rather delightfully partial to the Tome of Fiends, myself, and the Spheres even more. I just want to get it looking nice and neat, and without as much clutter and fully distinguishing their authors. So, that said, what is going to be used for the categories? [[User:Jwguy|Jwguy]] 21:10, 28 September 2009 (MDT)

== WikiRPS ==

I saw you had did some alterations to the navigation. I was wondering if a link to the WikiRPS site would help get some more activity over there? Or if you're even still interested in that. Just curious as to the goals/future of that project.  [[User:Hooper|''' Hooper ''']][[User talk:Hooper|  talk  ]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|  contribs  ]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|  email  ]] 10:36, 28 September 2009 (MDT)

:They have their own wiki since a while now; [http://www.wikirps.org/wiki/Main_Page WikiRPS] (although using the same things, etc). I don't understand what your question is (see also [[DnD Variant Rules]]). --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:18, 28 September 2009 (MDT)

::Yes, I know they do. I guess my question is: "Do you think it would be beneficial to include a link to that wiki on our navigation here, perhaps near where we link to the media repository?"  [[User:Hooper|''' Hooper ''']][[User talk:Hooper|  talk  ]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|  contribs  ]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|  email  ]] 13:48, 28 September 2009 (MDT)

:::We do. It's linked to from [[DnD Variant Rules]]; as discussed and implemented since a long time. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:50, 28 September 2009 (MDT)

== Incorrect Adoptionations ==

Y HALO THAR. Recently I adopted a dozen or so pages because I have some future plans with them, and the original owner, Sulacu, is gone and all. I noticed you reversed those adoptions. Is something the matter, we're permitted to adopt unnamed and user-less articles are we not? Even more so if we actually have permission from the original owner? If you could redo those adoptions for me, that sure would be swell, it makes it easier to find when I don't have to comb through the history and just look up "User Eiji". Domo arigato desu desu desu-chan, ie! -- [[User:Eiji|Eiji]] 21:00, 1 October 2009 (MDT)

:Eiji, your recent discussions in the chat your splinter group is using showcases those adoptions as bad faith adoptions. However, even with that fact, I can't speak for GD's decision. I believe a previous editor said "just stay away and leave us alone" and that has been our wiki's attitude. I humbly request you follow suit. Thanks.  [[User:Hooper|''' Hooper ''']][[User talk:Hooper|  talk  ]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|  contribs  ]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|  email  ]] 21:02, 1 October 2009 (MDT)

::Hi Hooper-desu! ''':D''' Well, it's very good faith actually, but the lower caste aren't supposed to talk to the upper caste. Wink wink, joke joke, nudge nudge. Anyway, I'm actually still active here (out of necessity, but that's a discussion for another time), so I can't leave.
::Anyway, awaitin' the Green Drag-man. I'll just leave this 'ere. -- [[User:Eiji|Eiji]] 21:11, 1 October 2009 (MDT)

:::As your most recent quote on the subject was the following: ''"the reason I'd adopt them is to keep GD's dirty mitts off them"'' as stated in your IRC channel, I'd say that clearly constitutes a bad faith adoption. Alas, however, GD shall tell us both how it went down, so I agree with your thoughts on waiting for him.  [[User:Hooper|''' Hooper ''']][[User talk:Hooper|  talk  ]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|  contribs  ]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|  email  ]] 21:14, 1 October 2009 (MDT)

::::Where'd I say that? That's silly Hooper. -- [[User:Eiji|Eiji]] 21:16, 1 October 2009 (MDT)

:::::If GD requests it he will be shown proof of that and other things you've said of recent regarding the adoption. Ever since that chat channel decided to bring up the idea of using pirate software against this site I've daily logged on and pulled that day's chats from it. Thankfully, nothing as vile as the pirate attack threats has been discussed since.  [[User:Hooper|''' Hooper ''']][[User talk:Hooper|  talk  ]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|  contribs  ]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|  email  ]] 21:18, 1 October 2009 (MDT)

::::::Of course not. You know, internet... it's full of people who talk for the hell of it, and talk is cheap. Why just yesterday I was claiming to be wearing a dress, when I was really wearing TWO dresses. :D But Hooper, we've gotten totally off the subject, so, for Green Dragon's sake I'm reseting the indent and reposting my point (I hope he doesn't mind). {{Unsigned|Eiji|20:23, 1 October 2009 (MDT)}}

:::::::Just placing my 2 cents Hooper but is it entirely ethical/legal to record and store chats without notifying those being recorded? Just wondering if perhaps playing secret agent in the chat room is the best use of your time which should be invested in this wiki, not in the wikia. Back on topic: if an article is up for adoption, what makes one user more or less worthy of adoption than another? One who has made as many contributions as Eiji is certainly able to competently handle an article, unless you are saying you trust a complete stranger to claim ownership of the article over an established contributor to this wiki. --[[User:Ehsteve|Ehsteve]] 21:34, 1 October 2009 (MDT)

::::::::You did it wrong... And D&D Wiki is fine; no malicious software should be able to do much of anything. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:49, 1 October 2009 (MDT)

:::::::::Ah, I'm doing it wrong? Well then, how may I do it right so I can get them re-adopted? -- [[User:Eiji|Eiji]] 22:51, 1 October 2009 (MDT)

::::::::::Just don't. Just edit the damn things; it makes much much more sense (your name is added, what you did is shown, and you can create a link repository at a usersubpage of pages which ''relate'' to you, one can look with ''my watchlist'' the pages as they change, etc etc. [[Template:Author]] is just more of a hassle then much else (history; when created; does not change). --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:56, 1 October 2009 (MDT)

:::::::::::Explain that second part to me again? I'm trying to get the pages to appear on my User: Eiji page so I don't have to search through recent changes (also, I'd like credit for adopting them too, but I haven't bothered yet to look/copy paste the ownership box/dunno how to go about that). Anyway, the link repository is what I'm currently doing with my pages right, having them appear in my User: Eiji page automatically instead of linking them one by one. -- [[User:Eiji|Eiji]] 22:58, 1 October 2009 (MDT)

::::::::::::{{quote|...and you can create a link repository at a usersubpage of pages which ''relate'' to you...
|orig=--[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:56, 1 October 2009 (MDT)
}}
::::::::::::--[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 23:04, 1 October 2009 (MDT)

:::::::::::::Sorry, might be a little slow but... uh, I don't get it. Can you rephrase it in a different way, as right now it seems like you're saying we can't put things on our User page we didn't originally make and just adopted. Or... something, I'm not really sure. Thanks in advance. -- [[User:Eiji|Eiji]] 23:08, 1 October 2009 (MDT)

{{Discussion Indentation Revert}}

:Right; for example I have nothing (theoretically) to do with the images on my userpage. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 23:16, 1 October 2009 (MDT)

::Oooh. Aww, that makes me sad... that means we aren't allowed to adopt anymore (at least, not in the normal sense of "I now own this", we can only edit... but then, so can everyone's else so it's a moot point). Well, there's nothing I can do. ''':(''' They were nice articles too.
::Oh well. /thread and all. -- [[User:Eiji|Eiji]] 23:18, 1 October 2009 (MDT)

:::Ya, but I find that usercontributions are much better then [[Template:Author]] and I find that when using history everything is much more fair then under the [[Template:Author]] system (each edit is that edit; not under someone elses' name). --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 23:22, 1 October 2009 (MDT)

::::Posting under an IP because I don't want Hooper to think that I am an active user of this wiki (GD, he is seriously retarded and I would avoid giving him adminship at any point unless you want this place crashing down even worse -- I can easily back up this claim with evidence, just look at 90% of his contribs on talk pages). Anyways... To clarify, are you saying that the Author template is pointless to have on articles? Should we remove it from every article? --[[User:208.90.101.99|208.90.101.99]] 06:23, 2 October 2009 (MDT)

:::::Personal attacks should be refrained from, and they make any point you think you have become lost in your antics "anonymous". This isn't a forum for insanity or attacks or opinions, take that to salin.  [[User:Hooper|''' Hooper ''']][[User talk:Hooper|  talk  ]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|  contribs  ]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|  email  ]] 07:15, 2 October 2009 (MDT)

::::::I apologize -- that comment was out of line and pretty immature. I'm still a little sore over what happened and when I do visit this wiki (in this case I was responding to a private email about an optimized build I wrote a while back), I do the stupid thing of looking at the recent changes and get bothered by what is going on. This was my "home" for a long time after all. I can take a conversation up privately with you if you want to discuss why I think many of your actions are bad for the wiki, but needless to say, I sincerely hope that [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] does not make you an admin until your behavior changes. I say that out of my old dedication to this wiki, not my new found bitterness. But, as I said, this is something for a private conversation and doesn't belong here on GD's talk page.

:::::::Thank you. I'm not seeking adminship, nor do I personally feel I need to be anything close to an admin, so I doubt such a conversation is necessary. [[User:Hooper|''' Hooper ''']][[User talk:Hooper|  talk  ]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|  contribs  ]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|  email  ]] 07:57, 2 October 2009 (MDT)

::::::To restate my questions to GD: "Are you saying that the Author template is pointless to have on articles? Should we remove it from every article?" --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 07:53, 2 October 2009 (MDT)

:::::::They do seem to hinder articles at time; however that is a long process. I say we should work on things which are a little more handalable at the moment. Maybe with in the year or two; who knows. Or what are your opinions and thoughts? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:43, 2 October 2009 (MDT)

== Euhm.... ==

Well, something very strange is happening here... I'd say adopting things to keep them safe is in good faith, and it is my perhaps not very humble opinion that playing secret agent in a chatroom is quite unethical. Additionally, I think it's unethical to remove an author's name from the front of the page, since that's where the focus is, no matter where else information on the original author can be found. Furthermore, I agree with some arguments brought in against Green Dragon, seeing as he acts in a seemingly random manner, getting angry and threatening with bans for little reason.

I tried (much earlier) to reason with both parties, and GD didn't even answer. Not ever.

I'm taking my creations. I created them, so they are my property, and I do not care which laws you quote. According to some test and multiple real-life experiences, I turn out to be CG, and I cannot abide a regime like this. I shan't use guerilla tactics or whatever to negative effect for this wiki, because it is rather pointless; it will be dead by itself without my interference soon enough. To summarize, I take possession of my work, and I will not comply with any attempts to restore them.

Further reasons for abandoning this wiki include a disturbing lack of interest in discussion pages; no one has shown an interest in several things I pointed out in several different discussion pages, and rather few of my own things where commented upon (seeing as I mean to implement those things I find interesting or design myself, I'd like a little more discussion about things like balance and powerlevel). Another point is the apparent failure of internal consistency in at least some creatures of the animal type and a tendency not to do anything about it.

I bid you adieu. I expect my pages to remain gone when I have removed them, and I expect there will not be a problem with that. I have no need for either wiki laws or dictatorial outlashings (they should be mutually exclusive, but reality proves to be otherwise, ey?), and I shall not abide either. [[User:Deranged|Deranged]] 16:18, 2 October 2009 (MDT)

:Imitating behavior/harassment. Banned. Content is content, usercontributions are usercontributions, and history is history. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:43, 3 October 2009 (MDT)

== WTF ==

Why is the tavern not working, still?! It's been nearly three months? {{Unsigned|Zetsumeimaru|17:52, 3 October 2009 (MDT)}}

:I know... One the servers got changed around a bit and as such the tavern is not configured right; another is that, as a discussion, we are not positive if we want a chat room. It seems to be there are differing opinions about. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:40, 3 October 2009 (MDT)

== Elaboration ==

:''Discussion moved to [[Talk:Omniarcanist of Caladon (3.5e Prestige Class)#Epic]] --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 14:18, 13 October 2009 (MDT).''

== Just looking... ==

I was just looking through some history and can I ask what MW is in reference to here:

"I restored all of the deleted pages right after they were wrongly deleted. Please learn something about MW before posting here (it's comparable to '''clicking''' the links above and '''looking''' at them). --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 14:52, 10 September 2009 (MDT)"

Thanks. --[[User:Sabre070|Sabre070]] 15:15, 15 October 2009 (MDT)

:MW is always MediaWiki. Where was this response? If you source it or supply a link I can better let you know what I meant. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:06, 20 October 2009 (MDT)

::It is on [[Requests for Adminship/Surgo2|Surgo's nomination]] for adminship. --[[User:Sabre070|Sabre070]] 01:44, 22 October 2009 (MDT)

:::Surgo was not following the deletion policy. I had to restore pages he/she wrongly deleted. For this to make more sense to you maybe [http://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&type=delete&user=Surgo&page=&pattern=&limit=500&offset=0 This (&limit=500)] is a better associated link (the blue links are restored - the red are deleted). If you see any other problems please let me know (where he/she deleted good content). --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 17:49, 25 October 2009 (MDT)

::::With the current deletion policy (That on [[:Category:Candidates for Deletion]]) he did not break any rules. It states: "In most cases 14 days after a page is nominated for deletion it will be deleted." Hence, there was no reason for those not to be deleted. Either that or you use the argument that it also says: "When nominating an incomplete page for deletion please make sure that it is not being actively improved upon." Which implies that it must be an incomplete page, though on a wiki nothing is ever complete so that cannot be an argument against it. I would like to know how you think that Surgo wasn't following the deletion policy and then we can amend it to make it clearer. --[[User:Sabre070|Sabre070]] 22:41, 25 October 2009 (MDT)

:::::The pages had zero reason to be deleted. Were nominated for deletion a day before and were deleted right after. That's breaking the rules. Watch out; or you'll get banned. I've explained this 100000 times. I'm done explaining it. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:47, 25 October 2009 (MDT)

::::::Actually, you had never explained that on Surgo's nomination page (and I haven't seen it anywhere else). They were nominated for deletion at least two weeks before: Aug 13 2009 nomination and 4 September 2009 deletion for many of them. There reason for deletion was that the author did not want them on the wiki, in the past that has been accepted though after recent events it was decided un-officially that it would not be, this was not put on the deletion page. --[[User:Sabre070|Sabre070]] 23:08, 25 October 2009 (MDT)

:::::::Oh, your right about the times. That's probably why I did not say that on the nomination. It's because it is good content - one should never delete good content. "''I restored all of the deleted pages right after they were wrongly deleted.''" --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 23:19, 25 October 2009 (MDT)

::::::::I still think we need to clarify the deletion policy. Though my thoughts on the articles on this wiki are that they should be owned by the contributers and can be deleted by them if they wish. --[[User:Sabre070|Sabre070]] 05:03, 26 October 2009 (MDT)

:::::::::That's not how they are. They are under the GNU FDL "''If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly and redistributed at will, then don't submit it here.''" for example. If one reads the the GNU FDL 1.2 then you will see more as to what I am talking about. And the deletion time frame is a little variable - the important part is that no playable, good, etc content gets deleted. That's the main idea. If you read the "Adminship" message it explains deletion a bit from an admin side and the category explains deletion from a wiki-side. Please keep in mind that was just Surgo's 2nd adminship - not the reason for (h)im/er being banned. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 15:03, 26 October 2009 (MDT)

== Edit Summary Question ==

You just told me what barnstars are, and I thank you, though I had guessed their purpose, 'twas a kind gesture. But I was wondering why you edited it with the summary "Discussions get archived not removed....". Would you care to elaborate on your reasoning, or was it not pertaining to me? --[[User:SgtLion|SgtLion]] 13:14, 20 October 2009 (MDT)

:Basically, don't just delete something from your page, archive it. --[[User:Sabre070|Sabre070]] 15:09, 20 October 2009 (MDT)

::Yes, you may not have noticed, but if you look at the actual [http://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=User_talk:SgtLion&diff=420227&oldid=420152 diff] in question, he re-added the welcome message you had previously removed. That was what he was actually talking about in the summary.  [[User:Hooper|''' Hooper ''']][[User talk:Hooper|  talk  ]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|  contribs  ]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|  email  ]] 16:16, 20 October 2009 (MDT)

:::I replied and used the edit summary to explain my edit. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:05, 20 October 2009 (MDT)

::::Ah, right, that was a mistake on my part. Thank you, everyone. --[[User:SgtLion|SgtLion]] 23:59, 20 October 2009 (MDT)

== Talosoi ==

A few days ago, I created the talosoi, a race of apelike people who live in dense jungles and ride giant wasps around. I decided to put it here, to share it with everyone else. But, since I didn't know anything about wiki formatting then, I put all of the separate types of talosoi as its own creature. Before I could realize my mistake, I put 6 new creatures on here, each of them a different talosoi (eg Talosoi Archer, Talosoi Shaman, Talosoi Chieftan, etc.). I wanted to know if there was anyway I could move all of those creatures to a single page. If was not, I would want to know if I could delete these pages and start again with the same creatures, but just under a different name (instead of talosoi, then it would be toldosoi or something like that). Thanks! {{Unsigned|Breo sabre|20:50, 21 October 2009 (MDT)}}

:If you merge them all onto one page (save the ones you cannot - the mounts; wasps, etc.) and add [[Template:Delete]] to the now merged ones it should cover your problem. Although one ''can'' "merge" all the pages together with their respective revision histories it's a long process and complicated; it's easier this way. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 23:00, 21 October 2009 (MDT)

== D20 Modern Material ==

:''Discussion moved from [[User talk:Tabris#D20/4e Issues]]'' --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 17:42, 27 October 2009 (MDT)

Please do not move my weapon contributions (namely flashbang, phosphorus grenade and smoke bomb.) as they were not made for d20 modern but instead as homebrew weapons for the dnd 4e game which I DM for.

If there is a way to set my creations to private please let me know as I do not want my contributions to be edited at all. I like them as they are but I do not know how to change the editing options to locked/protected. {{Unsigned|Tabris|01:23, 27 October 2009 (MDT)}}

:Please read the warning when you are editing on the site. It reads as follows: ''"If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly and redistributed at will, then don't submit it here."''.  [[User:Hooper|''' Hooper ''']][[User talk:Hooper|  talk  ]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|  contribs  ]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|  email  ]] 06:36, 27 October 2009 (MDT)

::Thats not helpful at all Hooper, I'm aware of this however my equipment is posted under 4e equipment for a reason: It's 4e equipment {{Unsigned|Tabris|15:27, 27 October 2009 (MDT)}}

:::I believe that the reasons some of the pages have been misappropriated is that they were not all originally coded the way fourth edition material should of been, giving the appearance of D&D or D20 equipment. Admins are busy so it is easy to see how that may have been the issue. Anyways, please note that the identifier on the pages should read "(4e Equipment)" not "(4E Equipment)" and in the future I wouldn't edit war with an admin, just make a nice and simple explanation and ask why they think something is not what it is ''(i.e. in this case just ask what is giving GD the impression it is D20 equipment and then fix that before doing all this reverting)''. Just usually not a good idea to remove admin edits.  [[User:Hooper|''' Hooper ''']][[User talk:Hooper|  talk  ]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|  contribs  ]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|  email  ]] 16:28, 27 October 2009 (MDT)

::::Please sign your posts using four tildes, like so: <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>. Please see your talk page for more info.  [[User:Hooper|''' Hooper ''']][[User talk:Hooper|  talk  ]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|  contribs  ]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|  email  ]] 16:29, 27 October 2009 (MDT)

:::::You can move them to a subuserpage of your userpage area; at most (keeping them 4e) and changing the templates around so they do not show up anywhere. Simply flashbang grenades, phosphorus grenades and smoke bombs do not fit into 4e. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 17:42, 27 October 2009 (MDT)

== Editing, Overdeity ==

Hey, I got a question about the deities. When making them, I'm confused about how to write the "What type of god is it" part. If you look Saran up, you see on the page, there is that error, I need help on that. Thanks! {{Unsigned|CelticHippie|20:17, 28 October 2009 (MDT)}}

:That should help. See the diff in question to see the edit change. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 21:52, 28 October 2009 (MDT)

== Canidates for Deletion ==

Hey GD. I was looking through some of the articles in the Deletion Catagory. There are more than a few that have been unedited and abandoned for many months. I say this because I have about 15 articles I made myself that need to be deleted. How often does this site clear out those pages? Thanks. (Wow, I just noticed their are 3 pages worth of stuff waiting to be deleted. Almost 500 articles.) --[[User:Jay Freedman|Jay Freedman]] 02:31, 29 October 2009 (MDT)

:It's getting worked on... Just keep adding them. A matter of weeks ago it was more then double the current amount (six or more pages) - so it's slowly getting cleared. Everything has to get by-hand looked at (since "What links here", talk pages, links, etc can be strange) so it's just a work in progress. They will get deleted though if need be (or authorship stripped). --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 16:53, 29 October 2009 (MDT)

::Sounds good. Thanks for the update. --[[User:Jay Freedman|Jay Freedman]] 20:19, 31 October 2009 (MDT)

== Arcane Archer ==

I rated the Arcane Archer class, but the number of ratings nor the overall ratings didnt change, why is this? --[[User:Zackrb|Zackrb]]

:You posted your rating on the talk page. But, that is only half of rating. You must edit the article itself to reflect your rating. Their are placeholders for ratings when editing the article itself. Updating these causes a overall rating to appear on the article when viewed. (Please remember to sign your posts.) --[[User:129.123.245.182|129.123.245.182]] 03:04, 2 November 2009 (MST)

== Thanks for helping me fix my format ==

--[[User:Frodo Goofball|Frodo Goofball]] 06:30, 9 November 2009 (MST)

== NEW ==

Her im kinda new here and a was gonna set up a page for my friends to use my Digimon and Pokemon races and classes i know that might sound stupid but hey to each his own, any way you put up my renamon page for deletion and a wasen't done with it yet i'm not sure wether it was because of that or the fact that it's a digimon, if you don't want digimon and stuff on there a will not put it on there :) just let me know.
(p.s.) i did'nt understand the way you set stuff up till now so i understand if the page was just in the way {{Unsigned|Corycodered|01:00, 12 November 2009 (MDT)}}

:Well what is it? A creature? It's not formatted like anything... If you follow a preload (go to a certain section and click the "add" button - that text) and update the current thing to fit that the delete template will be removed. If you don't want to do that of course you can move it to a subuserpage of yours (e.g. User:Corycodered/Renamon) then no formatting is needed. But one of those is needed for the delete template to be removed. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 01:17, 12 November 2009 (MST)

I'd like my user page deleted, if possible. Thanks
[[User:Palantini|Palantini]] 16:51, 14 November 2009 (MST)

== WikiRPS ==

Hello. I joined this wiki from the WikiRPS, and I've been trying to find out who is running that wiki. While I could and probably will eventually get active here, right now I'm more driven towards working on a more broad system, adapting historical, current, and sci-fi culture, weapons, and technology to an open RPS, not necessarily D&D. Thanks. --[[User:Madkcat|Madkcat]] 00:47, 18 November 2009 (MST)

:Pretty sure [[User:Cuthalion|Cuthalion]] is, although [[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] may be as well (I am not sure), or DotHectate ([http://www.wikirps.org/wiki/Special:Listusers/sysop Special:Listadmins]). --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 00:53, 18 November 2009 (MST)

::As far as I have been able to find, [[User:Cuthalion|Cuthalion]] hasn't been active since December '07, [[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] June '09 and DotHectate ([http://www.wikirps.org/wiki/Special:Listusers/sysop Special:Listadmins]) since June '08 on WikiRPS.
::I have some ideas of what to do, and how I'd like to do it, but I don't want to start messing with the Wiki until I can talk with someone who was/is active in WikiRPS to make sure I'm not stepping on toes, or causing problems by jumping in running.
::--[[User:Madkcat|madkcat]] 01:18, 18 November 2009 (MST)

:::I'm not in charge on WikiRPS. This wiki, where I did the initial setup, I know what's going on. There I do not — I have maybe only gone there a matter of times. you would have to ask one of them what's going on. Sorry about that. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 01:21, 18 November 2009 (MST)

== Language Style ==

As a born British English man, I'm somewhat accustomed to the British language. But I only could assume that this D&D Wiki is American, so in my language fixing, I didn't change anything like "armor" to "Armour" or vica versa, because I was unaware of what to do about it. So now I ask you, do I correct spellings to American or British English? Or something else, if that's how you roll.--[[User:SgtLion|SgtLion]] 11:01, 22 November 2009 (MST)

:It's American English. I recommend taking a look at [[Help:Standards and Formatting (DnD Guideline)]]. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 15:51, 22 November 2009 (MST)

::Guessed as much. And thanks, I'll take a look at that. Your response and help is appreciated. --[[User:SgtLion|SgtLion]] 00:02, 23 November 2009 (MST)

:::Ya, no problem. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 00:36, 23 November 2009 (MST)

== Vacation ==

I am taking a short five day long vacation or so down to New Mexico. I will have limited computer access however if everyone could keep an eye out for malicious edits, vandalism, etc it would be much appreciated. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 08:23, 25 November 2009 (MST)

== could u help? ==

Hi i was trying to find out if a slam attack is like an unarmed strike for the perpose of feats?

If u could e-mail me what u think that would be great

wolffboy66@yahoo.ca

== Hey ==

Im the one that sent the recent 7 dollar through paypal, can you keep me updated when you guys run donation drives so i can donate what i can. Also if you dont mind can you look over some the contributions that i made since i signed up to see if you feel they are constructive. Mainly i feel in love with aura guardian but want some feedback before i keep at it.

Thanks!
Starcry/novabladex

I like the anime shadow skill and was wondering if you ever thought about making a class based on the sevaars, specifically on gau and elle. I liked your tenken class and the frost knight one, so I was just throwing the idea out there.

== A different sort of game ==

I have a roleplaying game known as World Tree which uses skill advancement instead of class advancement. A character in the game is given a number of skill points at creation with no restrictions as to where they may go. I was thinking of doing a variant of this and even eliminating such things as abilities (there would instead be a lift and carry skill, for instance). I'm not sure this is the right place to discuss such a different system but I was hoping to work with others on it. Can you make any suggestions? My e-mail is brenner.mike at gmail.com

Thank you for your time, -Michael Brenner. {{Unsigned|204.210.188.32|10:23, 12 December 2009 (MST)}}

:Well a few options exist. How different is it from D&D? One option is to make a "radical" variant rule out of it; keeping the structure on D&D Wiki in general. Another option is to make a self-contained wiki (like WikiRPS); hosting could be discussed if that is the desired option. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:01, 12 December 2009 (MST)

== Aura Guardian ==

Hey Green, I was wondering if you would mind looking over the Aura guardian and see if anything so far could be abused? Also let me know what direction I should focus in, Defense of adding some offensive choices. Ive considered a VERY restrictive spell list, like maybe only the healing domain up to 4 and protection up to 4. Not sure. Also I could use some help with the flavor for anyone else reading this! Thank you in advance. --[[User:Starcry|Starcry]] 12:30, 19 December 2009 (MST)

:I took a look at it. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:03, 19 December 2009 (MST)

== Brawler, fair fight ==

heya, i've been using this web site for ages and it's awesome, a player notified me of the Brawler class.
At 7th level i think, he gets a special ability called fair fight, i was just looking at it and thought it was... well a little overpowered/little... silly (sorry if that offends btw.)

The feat basicly entails that people make a save or drop there weapons because it would be unfair otherwise... this gives a huge advantage to the brawler, as well as seeming silly as people who want him dead wouldn't think that they should kill him fairly (mostly) and those who would can normally be persuaded/ goaded into it. The skill might be relevant if the brawler had any actual arcane/divine powers but other then that he does not.

Anyway, asides from that it is an awesome class, a monk without the code of laws and from what I've seen of it a very balanced class except that.

Constructive criticisms ahoy! (Btw, i let my player have a feat rather then the ability)

== Talk page is really long/Review too ==

Your talk page is really long. Might be time to archive. Hehe. Peace. --[[User:Jay Freedman|Jay Freedman]] 14:50, 20 December 2009 (MST)

:GD, can you do me a big favor when you get a chance. I read your review of the Aura Guardian 3.5e Class. It was a flawless review. I was hoping you could give the Freerunner 3.5e Class a similar review. Currently the class is rated 20/20 and could really benefit from your perspective in particular. Thanks a million. (Just if you get a free moment.) --[[User:Jay Freedman|Jay Freedman]] 15:09, 20 December 2009 (MST)

== Leader of the Hunt ==

Really good article. Could also be the deity Cernunnos the Horned God, Leader of the Hunt.

== My article ==

how do i know when its ready to be used?

Just noticed the new Media Wiki version! Awesome! just having some issues, not sure if they are new or what but there is no more autoconfirmation group. so whenever I edit a page it is asking for a key code. Is this intentional? - 06:04, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Mercenary (3.5e Class)

2009-12-30T05:59:33Z

Sleaker:

Multiple mercenary classes causing linking issues from originals. Looks like a Bot redirected the original one to a new 3.5e one that another user had created thus being overwritten. - [[User:Sleaker|Sleaker]] 05:59, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Mercenary (3.5e Class)

2009-12-30T05:57:44Z

Sleaker:

Talk:Mercenary Vairant (3.5e Class)

2009-12-30T05:57:16Z

Sleaker: moved Talk:Mercenary Vairant (3.5e Class) to Talk:Mercenary Variant (3.5e Class): MIspell redirect

#REDIRECT [[Talk:Mercenary Variant (3.5e Class)]]

Talk:Mercenary Variant (3.5e Class)

2009-12-30T05:57:16Z

Sleaker: moved Talk:Mercenary Vairant (3.5e Class) to Talk:Mercenary Variant (3.5e Class): MIspell redirect

why is first level a dead level? i like the idea of the class, but it could use a little tweeking--[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 13:38, 18 October 2009 (MDT)
:I'll touch this up later--[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 05:26, 18 November 2009 (MST)

::Thankyou i started with an idea and then that idea just didn't work out so yeah all help will be appreciated--[[User:Stryker-Fyre|Stryker-Fyre]] 18:10, 29 November 2009 (MST)

Mercenary Vairant (3.5e Class)

2009-12-30T05:57:15Z

Sleaker: moved Mercenary Vairant (3.5e Class) to Mercenary Variant (3.5e Class): MIspell redirect

#REDIRECT [[Mercenary Variant (3.5e Class)]]

Mercenary Variant (3.5e Class)

2009-12-30T05:57:15Z

Sleaker: moved Mercenary Vairant (3.5e Class) to Mercenary Variant (3.5e Class): MIspell redirect

{{DnD Base Class Infobox
|img=
|imgloc=
|imgsize=
|imgcaption=
|rating_power=
|rating_wording=
|rating_formatting=
|rating_flavor=
|raters_power=
|raters_wording=
|raters_formatting=
|raters_flavor=
|authors=[[User:Stryker-Fyre|Stryker-Fyre]]
|datecreated=05/01/06
|adopters=[[User:Stryker-Fyre|Stryker-Fyre]], [[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]]
|dateadopted=01/31/08
|status=Adopting, W.I.P.
|editing=
|type=Combat-Focused
|desc=A Mercenary is a self-taught warrior who is a flashy and showy combat specialist. They usually don’t dedicate themselves for too long and will work only for the highest bidder though this is not always true, mercenaries aren’t regular merchants they will only fight for those they see as interesting or powerful. Whatever the reason, he can walk in and out of any battle without any feelings of remorse…as long as the price is right and he has some fun.
}}

=Mercenary=

{{quote| Sure, I’ll work for the Destroyer of Infinite Worlds....…for a price. |orig=Human Mercenary, Stryker Dragonhart }}

A Mercenary is a self-taught warrior who is a flashy and showy combat specialist. They usually don’t dedicate themselves for too long and will work only for the highest bidder though this is not always true. Mercenaries aren’t regular merchants they will only fight for those they see as interesting or powerful. Whatever the reason, he can walk in and out of any battle without any feelings of remorse…as long as the price is right and he has some fun

'''Adventures:''' Mercenaries adventure to find their next battle and their next paycheck as well as some excitement. They are most comfortable on the battlefield where they can have fun and get paid for it.

'''Characteristics:''' Mercenaries, like fighters, are combat specialists. They have been through a lot of battles and sometimes make good leaders for an adventuring group. Because they adventure throughout the world, they learn the unique but effective techniques they have made up themselves or seen from cultures that most have never heard of.

'''Alignment:''' Being flexibly trained, they are usually chaotic or neutral, adhering to no set form of rules, however lawful mercenaries do exist, usually as a result from a noble or disciplined upbringing. Chaotic mercenaries typically have more battle-lust than lawful mercenaries.

'''Religion:''' Mercenaries worship any deity that seems interesting but gods of wealth and gods of battle appeal to most.

'''Background:''' Mercenaries have all undergone some form of rigorous weapon training at some point in their lives, either in an organization or from a master though most are self-taught. They then hone their skills through their travels. Mercenaries are practical, and do not believe that they should fight without getting something in return though the fighting itself is reward in itself for some.

'''Races:''' Humans and Half-Elves, who do not have very strong ties with anyone, typically become mercenaries. Ex-army elves also become mercenaries through wanderlust, and a desire to improve their wealth. Dwarves rarely become mercenaries because of a stronger feeling of commitment to their homeland. Half-orcs are common although they prefer to become a barbarian or fighter.

'''Other Classes:''' Mercenaries get along best with other combatants (such as fighters, and rangers) as they are similar to mercenaries. They also get along with the self-taught classes, as they understand their independence more than other classes

'''Role:''' Like a fighter, they are front line combatants. However, they come into their own when they take advantage of their knowledge and mastery with a chosen weapon and they usually prefer exotic and slashing weapons though this is not a rule.

== Game Rule Information ==

'''Abilities:''' Strength is the hallmarks of the battle-hardened mercenary, a good Dexterity and Constitution help keep mercenaries alive.
'''Alignment:''' Any

{| cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" class="d20"
|+ style="text-align: right;" | <div style="float: left;">Table: The Mercenary</div> Hit Die: d10
|-
! Level
! [[Base Attack Bonus (terminology)|Base Attack Bonus]]
! [[Saving Throw (SRD Rules)|Fort Save]]
! [[Saving Throw (SRD Rules)|Ref Save]]
! [[Saving Throw (SRD Rules)|Will Save]]
! style="text-align: left;" | Special
|-
| 1 || +1 || +2 || +2 || +0 || style="text-align: left;" | Endurance, Dead Men Are Poor Men
|- class="even"
| 2 || +2 || +3 || +3 || +0 || style="text-align: left;" | Veteran Warrior
|-
| 3 || +3 || +3 || +3 || +1 || style="text-align: left;" | Evasion
|- class="even"
| 4 || +4 || +4 || +4 || +1 || style="text-align: left;" | Battle tempered
|-
| 5 || +5 || +4 || +4 || +1 || style="text-align: left;" | Uncanny Dodge
|- class="even"
| 6 || +6/+1 || +5 || +5 || +2 || style="text-align: left;" | Bonus feat
|-
| 7 || +7/+2 || +5 || +5 || +2 || style="text-align: left;" | Unique Weapon,
|- class="even"
| 8 || +8/+3 || +6 || +6 || +2 || style="text-align: left;" |Improved Uncanny Dodge
|-
| 9 || +9/+4 || +6 || +6 || +3 || style="text-align: left;" | Monkey Grip
|- class="even"
| 10 || +10/+5 || +7 || +7 || +3 || style="text-align: left;" | Bonus Feat
|-
| 11 || +11/+6/+1 || +7 || +7 || +3 || style="text-align: left;" | Improved Evasion
|- class="even"
| 12 || +12/+7/+2 || +8 || +8 || +4 || style="text-align: left;" |
|-
| 13 || +13/+8/+3 || +8 || +8 || +4 || style="text-align: left;" |
|- class="even"
| 14 || +14/+9/+4 || +9 || +9 || +4 || style="text-align: left;" | Bonus Feat
|-
| 15 || +15/+10/+5 || +9 || +9 || +5 || style="text-align: left;" | Borrowed Art
|- class="even"
| 16 || +16/+11/+6/+1 || +10 || +10 || +5 || style="text-align: left;" |
|-
| 17 || +17/+12/+7/+2 || +10 || +10 || +5 || style="text-align: left;" |Borrowed Art
|- class="even"
| 18 || +18/+13/+8/+3 || +11 || +11 || +6 || style="text-align: left;" | Bonus Feat
|-
| 19 || +19/+14/+9/+4 || +11 || +11 || +6 || style="text-align: left;" | Borrowed Art
|- class="even"
| 20 || +20/+15/+10/+5 || +12 || +12 || +6 || style="text-align: left;" |
|-
| colspan="6" style="text-align: left; border: none;" |
'''Class Skills (4 + [[Int]] modifier per level; ×4 at 1st level)''' [[SRD:Appraise Skill|Appraise]] [[Intelligence (SRD Term)|(Int)]], [[Climb (SRD Skill)|Climb]] [[Strength (SRD Term)|(Str)]], [[Handle Animal (SRD Skill)|Handle Animal]] [[Charisma (SRD Term)|(Cha)]], [[Heal (SRD Skill)|Heal]] [[Wisdom (SRD Term)|(Wis)]], [[Intimidate (SRD Skill)|Intimidate]] [[Charisma (SRD Term)|(Cha)]], [[Jump (SRD Skill)|Jump]] [[Strength (SRD Term)|(Str)]], [[Knowledge (SRD Skill)|Knowledge Geography]] [[Intelligence (SRD Term)|(Int)]], [[Knowledge (SRD Skill)|Knowledge Local]] [[Intelligence (SRD Term)|(Int)]],[[Sense Motive (SRD Skill)|Sense Motive]] [[Wisdom (SRD Term)|(Wis)]], [[Swim (SRD Skill)|Swim]] [[Strength (SRD Term)|(Str)]], and [[Knowledge (SRD Skill)|Knowledge Geography]] [[Intelligence (SRD Term)|(Int)]]
|}

== Class Features ==

'''Weapon and Armor Proficiency:''' Mercenaries are proficient with all simple and martial weapons and one exotic weapon of your choice, and with [[SRD:Armor Proficiency (Light) (Feat)|light]], and [[SRD:Armor Proficiency (Medium) (Feat)|medium]] armor as well as shields (except tower shields).

Levels in Mercenary count as levels in fighters when determining for feats such as Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Focus, and Greater Weapon Specialization.

'''Battle Tempered ([[Ex]]):''' A mercenary gains a bonus in will saves. Starting at level 4 a Mercenary gains a +1 on will saves, and and additional +1 every 4 levels (+2 at 8, +3 at 12, and so on.)

'''Dead Men Are Poor Men ([[Ex]]):''' Due to a mercenaries lust for money, he develops a sixth sense that helps him dodge unexpected blows so he can receive payment in the future. Add Intelligence or Wisdom bonus (if any) to AC. This effect can be used while wearing light or medium armor. Once Chosen, this decision cannot be changed. This bonus does not apply if the mercenary is caught flat-footed or in a situation where he would lose his dexterity bonus.

'''Unique Weapon ([[Ex]]):''' Due to the devotion to the mastery of his favorite weapon ( Usually the coolest, biggest, sharpest one) a mercenary gains a more thorough understanding of his preferred weapon. He gains Weapon Specialization to one weapon of his choice.

'''Veteran Warrior ([[Ex]]):''' Due to years of fighting a variety of foes, a mercenary has learned to use fancy and showy maneuvers as well as brute force. Add your Dexterity bonus (if any to attack and damage rolls). This is cumulative to the Strength bonus and only in effect while wearing light or medium armor or n clothing.

'''Monkey Grip ([[Ex]]):''' At 9th level a mercenary gains the Monkey Grip feat.

'''Evasion ([[Ex]]):''' At 3rd level a mercenary gains evasion while in light, hide or no armor

'''Uncanny Dodge([[Ex]]):''' At 5th level a mercenary gains uncanny dodge.

'''Improved Uncanny Dodge([[Ex]]):''' At 8th level a mercenary gains improved uncanny dodge.

'''Improved Evasion ([[Ex]]):''' At 11th level a mercenary gains improved evasion while in light, hide or no armor.

'''Improved Uncanny Dodge([[Ex]]):''' At 8th level a mercenary gains improved uncanny dodge.

'''Borrowed Art ([[Ex]]):''' At 15th, 17th and 19th level a mercenary can choose one weapon dependent ability from another class( such as a samurai’ Iaijutsu Master ability or the Master Samurai’s Blades of Death ) and one weapon for which that ability functions.

----
{{DnD Base Classes Breadcrumb}}
[[Category:DnD]]
[[Category:User]]
[[Category:Class]]
[[Category:Base Class]]
[[Category:Combat-Focused]]

Talk:Mercenary (3.5e Class)

2009-12-30T05:56:41Z

Sleaker: moved Talk:Mercenary (3.5e Class) to Talk:Mercenary Vairant (3.5e Class): Original Mercenary class was overwritten. Moving alternate mercenary to new location.

#REDIRECT [[Talk:Mercenary Vairant (3.5e Class)]]

Talk:Mercenary Variant (3.5e Class)

2009-12-30T05:56:41Z

Sleaker: moved Talk:Mercenary (3.5e Class) to Talk:Mercenary Vairant (3.5e Class): Original Mercenary class was overwritten. Moving alternate mercenary to new location.

Mercenary (3.5e Class)

2009-12-30T05:56:40Z

Sleaker: moved Mercenary (3.5e Class) to Mercenary Vairant (3.5e Class): Original Mercenary class was overwritten. Moving alternate mercenary to new location.

#REDIRECT [[Mercenary Vairant (3.5e Class)]]

Mercenary Variant (3.5e Class)

2009-12-30T05:56:40Z

Sleaker: moved Mercenary (3.5e Class) to Mercenary Vairant (3.5e Class): Original Mercenary class was overwritten. Moving alternate mercenary to new location.

Talk:Monk, Tome (3.5e Class)

2009-12-27T23:04:15Z

Sleaker: New section: Major Flaws

== BAB ==

Think we should go with Races of War BAB for these? I mean, level 20 BAB being +20/+15/+15/+15 raises a lot of eyebrows among people who aren't familiar with F&K reasoning.[[User:Genowhirl|Genowhirl]] 20:37, 12 November 2008 (MST)

:No. Keep it as it is. --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 22:42, 12 November 2008 (MST)

== Balance ==

One of the grand master fighting style abilities allows each attack to be a save-or-die. Every round, that's four save-or-dies. Brokenness abounds. --[[User:Daniel Draco|Daniel Draco]] 20:40, 30 November 2008 (MST)

:It's level 15 when you get the options of having that, which happens to be the city limits of CrazyTown. The monsters at CR 15+ are INSANE, so characters who want to contribute against them in a fight...well, they need something likewise pretty darn crazy. Looking at the Monsters by CR list, well, I notice a lot of true dragons on there. Those things have good Fort saves, and have a fair chance of survival. I also see a lot of constructs and undead, so that ability isn't even applicable to them. And, to cap it all off, I have a very easy houserule for that: If you're hit by it, you have to make a Fort save *that round*, no matter how many times you're hit. -- [[User:Genowhirl|Genowhirl]] 20:54, 30 November 2008 (MST)

::Well that's the first time I've seen an argument for a bit Frank and K homebrew oddity that has made any sense whatsoever. Touché. --[[User:Daniel Draco|Daniel Draco]] 20:57, 30 November 2008 (MST)

:::Posting all this Frank and K stuff *has* taught me a thing or two. They chose monsters as their balance point, so if you want to analyze a class, you have to keep the words "Monsters at CR X" firmly in mind. Their work raised my eyebrows, too, until I started going through the SRD monster list and comparing classes, level X against CR X. Then I felt better about it. [[User:Genowhirl|Genowhirl]] 23:07, 30 November 2008 (MST)

::::Actually, thinking about it I've only come across one other oddity, and that was F&K's idea that base classes needn't always be 20+ levels. The discussions over whose character builds are better got me in the mindset of classes being balanced with other classes, not with monsters...So, point taken, I will keep that in mind from now on ''':D''' --[[User:Daniel Draco|Daniel Draco]] 23:34, 30 November 2008 (MST)

Could a one-level dip in this Monk class give any meleer the ability to deal 2 con damage with every attack they make regardless of their weapon just by spending a swift action every turn? (Note that most meleers don't use too many swift actions, so it's effectively for free.) Feels a bit too powerful for a one-level dip :-\ [[User:76.169.236.139|76.169.236.139]] 04:35, 26 June 2009 (MDT)

:Yeah, the Monk's a pretty crazy class for almost any length of dip (Ignore DR and Hardness? Why, thank you, I'll do just that). But considering that it's meant to be used with the other Tome classes, who do indeed have uses for their swift and immediate actions...well, it evens up a bit there, what with the Fighter having several things he'd like to be able to do with his swift action, and I know the Barbarian has to Rage and I'm pretty sure there's something for the Samurai and Knight, too. But I do know that the classes were made with the intention that you got worthwhile things the entire way through, and therefore you don't ''have'' to play a Barbarian/Ranger/Fighter/PrC/PrC by the time you reach level 12 to have cool abilities and decent saves, which really helps with the immersion. Anyway, Con bonus isn't *that* great early on, because you'd have to hit just about anything several times to kill it and you wouldn't even notice the HP loss due to Con what because your weapon damage will drop a critter in a few hits. At higher levels, I suppose it'd be some help if you didn't have a source of bonus damage, since in 3.5, Monster HP increases more quickly than the ability of meleers to wear it down with just weapon attacks. I mean, look at the monsters around level 10. If they have low HP, they're probably casting-based and therefore tricky. If they're a bruiser, they're in all likelyhood a size or two bigger and a good chunk stronger than you are, with higher con scores to boot. So the Con bonus is worth your time, then. Or, put it another way. Here's a CR 3 encounter: [http://www.salisburylions.org/male_lion.jpg "Rawr!"]
At level 3, you're supposed to be able to do something useful against that. And with a sword and shield, you totally could.
:Now, here's what you're up against at CR 8:
[http://www.nimbacreations.com/library/tyrannosaurus-rex-model.jpg "See this?"]
:If you're just using weapon attacks, that's not much of a fair fight, is it?
: Now, your point about the monk being a crazy-good dip one-level dip class stands. It could add a couple of good tricks and some extras to any melee class. But for the melee segment of the crowd, they need some craziness to keep up with the things they're actually supposed to be doing (kill things by hitting them.) So, yeah, it doesn't bother me. --[[User:Genowhirl|Genowhirl]] 08:56, 26 June 2009 (MDT)

::It's a good dip class, but doing that does eat up your swift action every round. [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] 10:58, 26 June 2009 (MDT)

:::Well, part of his point was that because that ability is 'for free' because melee characters don't use swift actions that much. Which, for the Tome melee characters, isn't true. The Fighter certainly has several abilities requiring a swift action, the Barbarian his swift/immediates to enter a Rage (admittedly, after that, he's got some more choice), the Samurai gets some bonus feats whose options also cut into his swift/Immediate actions, and the Knight's Designate Opponent works as a Swift Action. If you play the Kantian Paladin, he also gets some things which cut into his swift actions. -- [[User:Genowhirl|Genowhirl]]

== Rating ==

'''Power - 4/5''' I give this class a 4 out of 5 because, while it is largely balanced and fair, some of the fighting styles made me raise an eyebrow. I mean, moving around at full speed without provoking attacks of oppurtunity and ignoring hardness and DR at level 1? I'm sorry but those are both things that should be kept in epic or, at the very least, post-tenth levels. You could argue that they only last one round, but keep in mind, they also can be reactivated each round, effectively giving the monk the benifit without any restrictions. → [[User:Rithaniel|Rith]] [[User talk:Rithaniel|(talk)]] 13:23, 16 April 2009 (MDT)

: Don't forget you lose your swift action for the round., so you can't activate magic item, some feats and other things. So yeah. --[[User:Lord Dhazriel|Lord Dhazriel]] 13:25, 16 April 2009 (MDT)

::Agreed, you lose your swift action, but then again, would you rather activate your wand of fireballs and hit a couple of Balors, or get the bonus of the ability to move through a hallway ''lined'' with Balors without a scratch? → [[User:Rithaniel|Rith]] [[User talk:Rithaniel|(talk)]] 13:42, 16 April 2009 (MDT)

:::Assuming it's not a wand of fireballs and instead, say, a wand of cone of cold (since balors are immune to fire), I'd rather use the wand. After all, the wand is an area effect, and moving through a hallway without a scratch is useless if they're going to go ahead and scratch you VERY hard when their turn comes. --[[User:Daniel Draco|Daniel Draco]] 14:19, 16 April 2009 (MDT)

::::Heh heh, yeah, wand of cone of cold then, my bad ''':P'''. Now then, we aren't exactly talking about a paticular fighting style here, we're talking about the class as a whole's power. At level 1, you aren't going to be having magic items at all, yet you get an ability that is (arguably, since I could argue the use of the ability, but would rather not) perferable to one. → [[User:Rithaniel|Rith]] [[User talk:Rithaniel|(talk)]] 14:33, 16 April 2009 (MDT)

:::::Well, the Monk has a couple of controls on it; you can only have one fighting style active at a time (usually). So you have to choose, round-by-round, what you're doing and use a swift action to do it. Anyway, the DR-ignorage isn't so bad. He's getting 1d8 + 1.5 Str damage with his Slam attack; he could possibly use a weapon to get an enhancement bonus to that, but then he'd have to burn another Fighting Style ability so the DR/Hardness bypass applies to a weapon. Plus, he'd have to shell out for a weapon when he could use the cash on something else. Part of the SRD Monk's difficulties is that monsters have substantial DR that the Monk can't penetrate because his Unarmed Damage scales so slowly and the Monk's abilities to bypass DR don't extend to having their unarmed strikes be considered a +X weapon (Not even counting the Cold Iron/Silver DRs). So the Dungeonomicon Monk can bypass DR and punch his way through even a Adamantine door (given the time), but his Slam damage stays fixed at 1d8 (barring burning a feat on Improved Natural Attack or Enlarge Person or something). The second bit--free AoO-free movement--is a bit more problematical, because the tactical options are so obvious. Enemy caster behind their lines? Mobilize, cross the lines, and go upside his head. Being able to do that never stops being useful. --[[User:Genowhirl|Genowhirl]] 14:43, 16 April 2009 (MDT)

::::::Yes, they are both reasonable and fair abilities, I just simply think that first or third level is a little too low to get them. Hence my statment above that they are at the very least post-tenth level abilities. → [[User:Rithaniel|Rith]] [[User talk:Rithaniel|(talk)]] 19:37, 16 April 2009 (MDT)

:::::::I was always a big fan of combining the "ignore AoO" with the "stunning strikes" and opening combat with a charge through enemy lines to get to, and hopefully stun, spellcasters in the first round of combat. It worked pretty well, but that's what monks should be doing; the 3.x core monks were basically designed to take out spellcasters, what with the crazy good saves and the high touch ACs (and then the SR and various other defensive abilites at higher levels) --An_Onymous.

'''Wording - 4/5''' I give this class a 4 out of 5 because, while all of the class features are easily understood and comprehensive, the strange BAB progression is never explained (I personally know it's from races of war, but others wouldn't, and so would look at it and say, "whuh?"). → [[User:Rithaniel|Rith]] [[User talk:Rithaniel|(talk)]] 13:23, 16 April 2009 (MDT)

'''[[Help:Standards and Formatting (DnD Guideline)|Formatting]] - 3/5''' I give this class a 3 out of 5 because massive portions of the preload are missing, though, interwiki linking is decently comprehensive. (Also, you have one red link in the fighting styles section). → [[User:Rithaniel|Rith]] [[User talk:Rithaniel|(talk)]] 13:23, 16 April 2009 (MDT)

'''Flavor - 5/5''' I give this class a 4 out of 5 because, while most of the flavor related parts of the preload are missing, this really captures the feel of the anime, "crouching tiger hidden dragon" monk. → [[User:Rithaniel|Rith]] [[User talk:Rithaniel|(talk)]] 13:23, 16 April 2009 (MDT)

:Changed rating since flavor is independant of the preload. → [[User:Rithaniel|Rith]] [[User talk:Rithaniel|(talk)]] 11:22, 17 April 2009 (MDT)

== Major Flaws ==

The base class is 100% made of Supernatural Abilities. Even if you look at the normal SRD Monk over 1/2 of his abilities are Extraordinary. Including the armor bonus. This version of the monk is subject to some serious anti-magic abilities.

Order Initiate (3.5e Class)

2009-12-11T06:14:55Z

Sleaker: /* Class Features */

Evoker (3.5e Class)

2009-07-27T05:59:49Z

Sleaker:

Evoker (3.5e Class)

2009-07-27T05:45:07Z

Sleaker:

Stonemelder (3.5e Class)

2009-07-01T23:35:58Z

Sleaker:

__NOTOC__
{{DnD Base Class Infobox
|img=
|imgloc=
|imgsize=
|imgcaption=
|rating_power=
|raters_power=
|rating_wording=
|raters_wording=
|rating_formatting=
|raters_formatting=
|rating_flavor=
|raters_flavor=
|authors=Sleaker
|datecreated=3-14-9
|status=100%
|editing=Formatting Only
|type=Moderate Spellcasting, Combat Focused
|desc=Stonemelders are the engineers of the world, they design many of the things in the world of Cora, and are the primary magic item creators in the world. Stonemelders have the ability to project auras which benefit their group.
}}
{{:Cora (DnD Campaign Setting)/Menu}}
==Stonemelder==

Stonemelders are the engineers of the world, they design many of the things in the world of Cora, and are the primary magic item creators in the world. Stonemelders have the ability to project auras which benefit their group. Because this class is designed for the E8 setting Cora, I have only designed 8 levels of the class. .

'''Abilities:''' [[Intelligence]] is important as it gives the Stonemelder more skills and affects many of the skills he needs.

'''Races:''' All races are known to become stonemelders.

'''Alignment:''' Any.

'''Starting Gold:''' 4d4×10 gp (100 gp)

'''[[SRD:Race Descriptions#Starting Age|Starting Age]]:''' As [[wizard]].

{| class="{{d20}}"
|+
<div>{{#anc:Table: The Stonemelder}}</div>
Hit Die: d8
|-
! rowspan="2" | Level
! rowspan="2" | [[BAB|Base Attack Bonus]]
! colspan="3" | [[SRD:Saving Throw|Saving Throw]]s
! rowspan="2" | Special
! rowspan="2" | Auras Known
! rowspan="2" | [[#Craft Reserve|Craft Reserve]]
|-
! [[SRD:Saving Throw#Fortitude|Fort]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Reflex|Ref]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Will|Will]]
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
|1st|| class="left" | +0 || +2 || +0 || +2
| class="left" | [[#Stone Attunement|Stone Attunement (first)]], [[#Trapfinding|Trapfinding]], [[#Aura|Aura (First, +1)]], [[#Stoneshaped|Stoneshaped]]
| 3 || —
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
|2nd|| class="left" | +1 || +3 || +0 || +3
| class="left" | [[#Stone Attunement|Stone Attunement (ability)]], [[#Item Creation|Item Creation]], [[#Brew Potion|Brew Potion]], [[#Technically Minded|Technically Minded +2]]
| 3 || 40
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
|3rd|| class="left" | +2 || +3 || +1 || +3
| class="left" | [[#Stone Attunement|Stone Attunement (stoneshaped ability)]], [[#Craft Wondrous Item|Craft Wondrous Item]]
| 4 || 60
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
|4th||class="left" | +3 || +4 || +1 || +4
| class="left" | [[#Stone Attunement|Stone Attunement (second)]]
| 4 || 80
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
|5th||class="left" | +3 || +4 || +1 || +4
| class="left" | [[#Craft Magic Arms and Armor|Craft Magic Arms and Armor]], [[#Aura|Aura (+2)]]
| 5 || 100
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
|6th||class="left" | +4 || +5 || +2 || +5
| class="left" | [[#Aura|Aura (second)]], [[#Technicallty Minded|Technically Minded +4]]
| 5 || 150
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
|7th||class="left" | +5 || +5 || +2 || +5
| class="left" | [[#Stone Attunement|Stone Attunement (third)]]
| 6 || 200
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
|8th||class="left" | +6/+1 || +6 || +2 || +6
| class="left" | [[#Expanded Craft Reserve|Expanded Craft Reserve]]
| 6 || 250
|-
| colspan="10" class="skill" |
'''Class Skills (6 + [[SRD:Intelligence|Int]] modifier per level, ×4 at 1st level)''' 
[[Appraise]] ([[Int]]), [[Craft]] ([[Int]]), [[Diplomacy]] ([[Wis]]), [[Disable Device]] ([[Int]]), [[Knowledge]] (Any, taken individually) ([[Int]]), [[Open Lock]] ([[Dex]]), [[Profession]] ([[Wis]]), [[Search]] ([[Int]]), [[Sense Motive]] ([[Wis]]), [[Survival]] ([[Wis]]), [[Use Magic Device]] ([[Cha]]).
|}

====Class Features====

All of the following are class features of the Stonemelder.

'''Weapon and Armor Proficiency:''' Stonemelders are proficient with [[SRD:Armor Proficiency (Light)|light]], and [[SRD:Armor Proficiency (Medium)|medium]] armors and shields (except tower). They are proficient with [[UA:Weapon Group (Basic Weapons)|Basic Weapons]], [[UA:Weapon Group (Crossbows)|Crossbows]], [[UA:Weapon Group (Maces and Clubs)|Maces and Clubs]], [[UA:Weapon Group (Spears and Lances)|Spears and Lances]].

'''{{#anc:Aura}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Supernatural|Su]]):''' Beginning at 1st level you can channel the powers of a cora stone and project an aura that grants you and nearby allies a special benefit. Projecting an aura is a [[swift action]], and starting at 1st level you are only able to project one aura at a time, though in following levels you unlock the ability to have multiple auras active. An aura remains in effect until you use a free action to dismiss it or you activate another aura in its place. You can have an aura active continually.

Unless otherwise noted, your auras affect all allies within 30 feet (including yourself) with line of effect to you. Your aura is automatically dismissed if you become unconscious or are slain, but otherwise it remains in effect even if you are incapable of acting. Auras effects do not stack, if multiple auras from the same type are active you benefit from the one with the highest aura bonus.
The bonus granted by your aura begins at +1 and increases to +2 at 5th level. The number of auras you can project begins at 1 at 1st level, and increases to 2 at 6th level. As a 1st level stonemelder you know how to project three auras chosen from the list below, and at every odd-numbered level after that, you learn one additional aura of your choice. Each time you active an aura, you can choose from any of the auras that you know.

{| class="{{d20}}" style="text-align:left"
! style="width: 100px" | Aura !! Effect
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| Armor1 || Natural Armor increases by 1 for each point of your aura bonus.
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| style="vertical-align:middle" | Energy Shield2 || Any creature striking you or your ally with a natural attack or nonreach melee weapon is dealt 2 points of energy damage for each point of your aura bonus. The energy type is that of an attuned cora stone chosen when you project this aura.
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| Insight || Bonus to [[Craft]], [[Decipher Script]], [[Knowledge]], and [[Spellcraft]] checks, equal to twice your aura bonus.
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| Presence || Bonus on [[Bluff]], [[Diplomacy]], and [[Intimidate]] checks equal to twice your aura bonus.
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| Prowess || Bonus on all attacks and damage equal to your aura bonus.
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| Resistance2 || Resistance to energy equal to 5 x your aura bonus. The energy type is that of an attuned cora stone chosen when you project this aura.
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| Resolve || Bonus against Sleep, Fear, and paralysis effects and on [[Concentration]] checks equal to your aura bonus.
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| Senses || Bonus to [[Listen]], [[Spot]], and initiative checks equal to your aura bonus.
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| Toughness || DR 1/- for each point of your aura bonus.
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| Vigor || Fast healing 1 for each point of your aura bonus.
|-
|colspan="2" class="foot" |
# This increase a creatures current natural armor, or gives a creature with no natural armor a natural armor bonus.
# Character must be attuned to a Blue, Brown, White, Clear, or Red Cora Stone to benefit from these.
|}

'''{{#anc:Stone Attunement}}:''' You gain the ability to attune to a Cora Stone. Attuning to a Cora stone takes 2 hours of meditation without interruption, once you are attuned to a stone you stay attuned to it until it is taken more than 1 mile from your current location, or you go without it for 8 hours. You may remove the attunement from a cora stone by meditating for 1 hour. You may never attune to a stone that someone is already attuned to.

At 2nd level you gain the associated ability listed with any stone you are currently attuned to, if you remove an attunement you lose the associated ability.

At 3rd level, your stoneshaped gains the ability listed with any stone you are currently attuned to, if you remove an attunement your stoneshaped loses the associated ability.

{| class="{{d20}}"
|-
! Stone Color || School or Effect || Ability || Stoneshaped Ability
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| style="text-align:left;" | Black || [[Necromancy]] || style="text-align:left; width:310px;" | +4 to saves vs. [[Necromancy]] spells or effects
| style="text-align:left;" | When hit by a melee attack the target must make a [[Fortitude]] save (DC 12 + 1/2 [[Hit Dice]]) or be [[sickened]] for 2 rounds.
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| style="text-align:left;" | Blue || [[Electricity Effect|Electricity]] || style="text-align:left;" | +2 to [[reflex]] saving saves.
| style="text-align:left;" | All melee attacks deal an additional 1d6 [[Electricity Effect|electricity]] damage.
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| style="text-align:left;" | Brown || [[Acid Effect|Acid]] || style="text-align:left;" | +4 to saves to resist poisons & diseases
| style="text-align:left;" | All melee attacks deal an additional 1d6 [[Acid Effect|acid]] damage.
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| style="text-align:left;" | Clear || [[Sonic Effect|Sonic]] || style="text-align:left;" | +3 bonus to [[Listen]] and [[SRD:Move Silently|Move Silently]] checks
| style="text-align:left;" | All melee attacks deal an additional 1d4 [[Sonic Effect|sonic]] damage and a damaged enemy must make a [[Fortitude]] saving throw (DC 12 + 1/2 [[Hit Dice]]) or be [[deafened]] for 1 round.
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| style="text-align:left;" | Gray || [[Illusion]] || style="text-align:left;" | +3 bonus to [[Appraise]], and [[Use Magic Device]] checks
| style="text-align:left;" | When hit by a melee attack the target must make a [[Fortitude]] save (DC 12 + 1/2 [[Hit Dice]]) or be [[dazzled]] for 4 rounds.
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| style="text-align:left;" | Green || [[Transmutation]] || style="text-align:left;" | You natural armor increases by +1
| style="text-align:left;" | Gains Powerful Build1 and its slam attacks are treated as if they are one size category larger.
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| style="text-align:left;" | Red || [[Fire Effect|Fire]] || style="text-align:left;" | +2 bonus to initiative checks.
| style="text-align:left;" | All melee attacks deal an additional 1d6 [[Fire Effect|fire]] damage.
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| style="text-align:left;" | Yellow || [[SRD:Healing Subschool|Healing]] || style="text-align:left;" | Treat your vigor aura bonus as 1 higher than normal.
| style="text-align:left;" | Gains additional Hit Points equal to 2 times its [[Hit Dice]]
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| style="text-align:left;" | White || [[Cold Effect|Cold]] || style="text-align:left;" | Water-breathing
| style="text-align:left;" | All melee attacks deal an additional 1d6 [[Cold Effect|cold]] damage.
|-
| colspan="4" class="footer" style="text-align:left;" |
# Powerful Build ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]): Whenever the stoneshaped is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the stoneshaped is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to it. A stoneshaped is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect it. A stoneshaped can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, its space and reach remain those of a creature of its actual size. The benefits of this trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category.
|}

'''{{#anc:Trapfinding}}:''' Stonemelders can use the [[Search]] skill to locate traps when the task has a Difficulty Class higher than 20.

Finding a nonmagical trap has a DC of at least 20, or higher if it is well hidden. Finding a magic trap has a DC of 25 + the level of the spell used to create it.

Stonemelders can use the [[Disable Device]] skill to disarm magic traps. A magic trap generally has a DC of 25 + the level of the spell used to create it.

A stonemelder who beats a trap’s DC by 10 or more with a [[Disable Device]] check can study a trap, figure out how it works, and bypass it (with her party) without disarming it.

'''{{#anc:Stoneshaped}}:''' A stonemelder may create a Stoneshaped, this acts as a loyal mechanical bodyguard and assistant. The stoneshaped initially costs the stonemelder nothing, as it is assumed that the stoneshaped was created during his apprenticeship, adding parts and researching during his early years.

'''{{#anc:Technically Minded}}:''' At 2nd level a stonemelder's ability to understand technical things increases. He gains a +2 competence bonus to all [[Appraise]], [[Craft]], [[Disable Device]], [[Knowledge]], and [[Open Lock]] checks. This bonus increases to +4 at 6th level.

'''{{#anc:Item Creation}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' At 2nd level a stonemelder can create a magic item even if he does not have access to the spells that are prerequisites for the item. The stonemelder must make a successful [[Use Magic Device]] check (DC 20 + caster level) to emulate each spell normally required to create the item.
The stonemelder must make a successful check for each prerequisite for each item he makes. If he failed a check, he can try again each day until the item is complete. If he comes to the end of the crafting time and he has still not successfully emulated one of the powers, he can make one final check, even if he has already made a check that day. If that check also fails, then the creation process fails and the time, money and XP expended to craft the item are lost.

For purposes of crafting items, a stonemelder's effective caster level equals his stonemelder level.

'''{{#anc:Craft Reserve}}:''' At 2nd level a stonemelder gains a pool of craft points he can spend instead of experience points when crafting a magic item. Each time the stonemelder gains a new level, he receives a new craft reserve; leftover points from the previous level do not carry over. If the points are not spent, they are lost. A stonemelder can also use his craft reserve to supplement the XP cost of the item he is making, taking a portion of the cost from his craft reserve and a portion from his own XP.

'''{{#anc:[[Brew Potion]]}}:''' At 2nd level a stonemelder gains the [[Brew Potion]] feat for free, even if he doesn't meet the requirements.

'''{{#anc:[[Craft Wondrous Item]]}}:''' At 3rd level a stonemelder gains the [[Craft Wondrous Item]] feat for free, even if he doesn't meet the requirements.

'''{{#anc:[[Craft Magic Arms and Armor]]}}:''' At 5th level a stonemelder gains the [[Craft Magic Arms and Armor]] feat for free, even if he doesn't meet the requirements.

'''{{#anc:Expanded Craft Reserve}}:''' After reaching 8th level a stonemelder gains 1 addition point in his craft reserve for each 100 xp he gains from now on, his craft reserve may never exceed 300.

====The Stoneshaped====

{| border="0" class="{{d20}}" style="width: 100%;"
|-
| style="width:350px;" rowspan="10" border="0" | {{3.5e Creature Table Condensed
|creature=Stoneshaped
|size=Medium |type=[[Construct]]
|hd=4d10 |hp=42
|init=+1
|speed=30 ft.
|ac=18 (+5 natural armor, +2 Armor Plating, +1 [[Dex]]) |touch=11 |flat=17
|bab=+3 |grapple=+3
|at=Slam +6 melee (1d8+3)
|full_at=Slam +6 melee (1d8+3)
|space=5 ft. |reach=5 ft.
|fort=1 |ref=2 |will=2
|str=15 |dex=12 |con=- |int=4 |wis=13 |cha=6
|skills=Jump +9
|sq=[[SRD:Construct Type|Construct traits]]
|feats=
|cr=—
|align=Neutral
}}
! style="height:16px; width:100px;" | Class Level || style="width:40px" | HD || style="width:40px" | BAB || style="width:40px" | [[Fort]] || style="width:40px" | [[Ref]] || style="width:40px" | [[Will]] || style="width:120px" | Natural Armor || style="width:120px" | Ability Bonus || Special
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| style="height:16px;" | 1 || 4 || +3 || +1 || +1 || +1 || +5 || — || style="text-align:left;" | [[#Empathic Link| Empathic Link]], [[#Masterwork Quality|Masterwork Quality]], [[#Special Ability|Special Ability]]
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| style="height:16px;" | 2 || 5 || +3 || +1 || +1 || +1 || +6 || +1 [[Str]] or [[Dex]] || style="text-align:left;" | [[#Special Ability|Special Ability]]
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| style="height:16px;" | 3 || 6 || +4 || +2 || +2 || +2 || +6 || +1 [[Str]] or [[Dex]] || style="text-align:left;" |
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| style="height:16px;" | 4 || 7 || +5 || +2 || +2 || +2 || +7 || +1 [[Str]] or [[Dex]] || style="text-align:left;" | [[#Special Ability|Special Ability]]
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| style="height:16px;" | 5 || 8 || +6/+1 || +2 || +2 || +2 || +7 || +1 [[Str]] or [[Dex]] || style="text-align:left;" |
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| style="height:16px;" | 6 || 9 || +6/+1 || +3 || +3 || +3 || +8 || +1 [[Str]] or [[Dex]] || style="text-align:left;" | [[#Special Ability|Special Ability]]
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| style="height:16px;" | 7 || 10 || +7/+2 || +3 || +3 || +3 || +8 || +1 [[Str]] or [[Dex]] || style="text-align:left;" |
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| style="height:16px;" | 8 || 11 || +8/+2 || +3 || +3 || +3 || +9 || +1 [[Str]] or [[Dex]] || style="text-align:left;" | [[#Special Ability|Special Ability]]
|-
| colspan="9" style="text-align:left;"| A stoneshaped is a [[Medium]]-size construct made of metal, wood, and cora stone (and is susceptible to attacks such as ''[[SRD:Warp Wood|warp wood]]'' and ''[[heat metal]]''). A stoneshaped has Hit Dice equal to the stonemelder's class level + 3, it also gains special abilities and an increase in abilities as shown on the table below. If a stoneshaped reaches 0 HP it is destroyed, but a stonemelder may reconstruct a new stoneshaped. Constructing a replacement stoneshaped costs 250 gp per Hit Dice and takes 1 day for every 1000 gp value of the stoneshaped. For example, a 6th level stonemelder wishing to replace a 9 HD stoneshaped would have to spend 2,250 gp and 3 days constructing the stoneshaped. A stoneshaped may be repaired with a [[Craft]] (armorsmithing, blacksmithing, metalworking, or weaponsmithing) check that takes 1 hour of work. The amount healed is the result of the check -15 (Ex. A stonemelder repairs his stoneshaped and rolls a 23, the stoneshaped would be healed 8 hit points).

|}

'''{{#anc:Empathic Link}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Supernatural|Su]]):''' The stonemelder has an empathic link with the stoneshaped out to a distance of up to 1 mile. The stonemelder cannot see through the stoneshaped’s eyes, but they can communicate empathically. A stoneshaped sees the world from a detached perspective, so misunderstandings are always possible. Because of this empathic link, the stonemelder has the same connection to an item or place that the stoneshaped does, just as with a master and his familiar.

'''{{#anc:Masterwork Quality}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' The stoneshaped is made of only the best quality parts, his slam attacks are considered masterwork gaining a +1 attack bonus, and his well made armor plating gives the stoneshaped a +2 armor bonus to [[SRD:AC|AC]]. This occupies the same body slot as armor. In addition, a stoneshaped's slam attacks, and armor plating may be enchanted just like normal weapons and armor.

'''{{#anc:Special Ability}}:''' At each level the Stonemelder may choose a new special ability for his stoneshaped from the abilities below, each ability may only be selected once unless otherwise noted.

'''[[Constrict]] ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' The stoneshaped gains the [[constrict]] special attack which deals 1d8 + [[Str]] modifier bludgeoning damage.

'''Enhanced Plating ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' The stoneshaped gains DR 2/-.

'''Extra Attack ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' The stoneshaped gains two slam attacks instead of one when it makes a full attack. Its bonus on damage rolls for each attack is equal to its [[Strength]] modifier, rather than [[Strength]] x 1 1/2. A stoneshaped may make multiple attacks with both of his slam attacks if his BAB is high enough, these incur only the -5 penalty for making iterative attacks.

'''[[Improved Grab]] ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' To use this ability, a stoneshaped must hit with a slam attack. It can then attempt to start a [[grapple]] as a [[free action]] without provoking an [[attack of opportunity]] on any medium-sized or smaller creature.

'''[[Improved Trip]] ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' The stoneshaped gains the [[Improved Trip]] feat even if he doesn't meet the requirements.

'''Improved Slam Attack ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' The stoneshaped gains the [[Improved Natural Attack]] feat for his slam attack.

'''Secondary Strike ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' Requirements: BAB +6; The stoneshaped gains a secondary slam attack which deals 1d8 + 1/2 [[strength]] modifier damage.

'''Superior Attunement ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' Requirements: Stoneshaped with 10 [[Hit Dice]]; When the stoneshaped gains this ability choose a cora stone type, double all numeric effects of the ability that the stone grants the stoneshaped. (Ex: 1d6 damage becomes 2d6 damage, one size category becomes two). The stonemelder must also build the attuned stone into the stoneshaped's body. This process takes 1 day of work and a DC 20 [[Craft]] check. If the stonemelder ever loses his attunement to the stone, or it is removed the stoneshaped no longer benefits from the effects of this feat. This ability may be taken more than once, each time it is gained it applies to a different type of cora stone.

'''Superior Intellect ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' The stoneshaped's intelligence is permanently increased by 2. In addition you teach the stoneshaped to read and write in a language you know.

'''Superior Speed ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' The stoneshaped's base land speed increases by 10 feet.

'''Superior Strength ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' The stoneshaped's strength is permanently increased by 2.

'''Superior Toughness ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' The stoneshaped gains Hit Points equal to its [[Hit Dice]], this abiity may be taken multiple times, its effects stack.

'''Trip ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' If the stoneshaped hits with a slam attack, it can attempt to trip the opponent as a free action without making a touch attack or provoking attacks of opportunity. If the attempt fails, the opponent cannot react to trip the stoneshaped.

====[[Desertfolk (Cora Race)|Desertfolk]] Stonemelder Starting Package====

'''Weapons:''' [[Morningstar]].

'''Skill Selection:''' Pick a number of skills equal to 6 + [[Int]] modifier.

{| class="{{d20}}"
|-
! class="left" | Skill || Ranks || Ability || Armor Check Penalty
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| class="left" | [[Appraise]] || 4 || [[Int]] || —
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| class="left" | [[Craft]] (armorsmithing) || 4 || [[Int]] || —
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| class="left" | [[Diplomacy]] || 4 || [[Cha]] || —
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| class="left" | [[Disable Device]] || 4 || [[Int]] || —
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| class="left" | [[Knowledge]] (engineering) || 4 || [[Int]] || —
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| class="left" | [[Open Lock]] || 4 || [[Dex]] || —
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| class="left" | [[Search]] || 4 || [[Int]] || —
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| class="left" | [[Survival]] || 4 || [[Wis]] || —
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| class="left" | [[Use Magic Device]] || 4 || [[Cha]] || —
|}

'''Feat:''' [[Skill Focus]].

'''Gear:''' Leather Armor, Backpack with waterskin, one day's trail rations, bedroll, sack, flint and steel. Hooded Lantern, 4 pints of oil, Green Cora Stone.

'''Gold:''' 4d4 gp.

====Playing a Stonemelder====

'''Religion:''' Stonemelders often revere Abrazim as he is the god of knowledge and advancement.

'''Combat:''' Stonemelders use their stoneshaped companion to engage the enemy in combat while they employ the use of their crafted items, or use ranged weapons.

----
{{DnD Base Classes Breadcrumb}}

{{Cora Footer}}
[[Category:Class]]
[[Category:Base Class]]
[[Category:Good Guy]]
[[Category:Bad Guy]]
[[Category:Combat-Focused]]
[[Category:Skilled]]

Frontiersman (3.5e Class)

2009-06-15T22:33:38Z

Sleaker: /* Class Features */

Waterkin (Cora Race)

2009-06-13T23:26:52Z

Sleaker: /* Waterkin */

{{author
|author_name=Sleaker
|date_created=2-25-09
|status=Complete
|editing=Formatting Only
}}
{{:Cora (DnD Campaign Setting)/Menu}}
{{x0
|la=+0
|ecl=1
|type=[[Humanoid]] (kin)
|ability_adjust=+2 to [[Constitution]], −2 to [[Intelligence]]
|size=Medium
|favored_class=Soulshaper
|desc=
}}

=Waterkin=

Waterkin are known for their strength and endurance. They often choose working class jobs such as blacksmithing, fishing, or hunting. Waterkin who have a knack for adventuring often become disciples of the fist, and learn the ways of the fluid body. Waterkin are found within the Empire, and very few choosing to live outside its influence. Most waterkin believe in a strong family, and good work ethics, and waterkin families try to pass on the ideal that you must work hard for what you want, but if you put in enough effort, anything is able to be accomplished. Most waterkin end up leading simple lives, even though they do believe in hard work, most never manage to have high aspirations beyond taking over after their fathers business, or getting married to a decent man.

Waterkin have light blue, to purple skin, and black hair. Most have blue eyes to compliment their skin. They are of normal height and weight for a kin, and possess small gills on the inside of their mouths which allow them to breath both air and water effectively. Their skin is of a rough scaly texture.

==Racial Traits==

* +2 [[Constitution]], −2 [[Intelligence]]
* '''[[Humanoid]]''' (kin)
* '''[[Medium]]:''' As Medium creatures, waterkin have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
* Waterkin base land speed is 30 feet.
* '''[[Low-Light Vision]]:''' A waterkin can see twice as far as normal in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. They retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.
* +2 racial bonus on saving throws against spells with the [[Cold Effect|cold]] or [[Water Effect|water]] descriptor.
* '''Water Breathing:''' waterkin can breathe underwater indefinitely and can freely use special abilities while submerged.
* '''Essentia Pool:''' A waterkin's essentia pool is permanently increased by 1. If he doesn't have an essentia pool, this trait grants him one with a single point of essentia.
* +4 racial bonus on [[Swim]] checks.
* [[Automatic Languages]]: Common.
* [[Favored Class]]: [[Soulshaper (DnD Class)|Soulshaper]].

==Vital Statistics==

{| class="d20" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"
|+ Table: Waterkin Random Starting Ages
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"
! Adulthood || Simple || Moderate || Complex
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"
| 15 years || +1d4 || +1d6 || +2d6
|}

{| class="d20" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"
|+ Table: Waterkin Aging Effects
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"
! Middle Age1 || Old2 || Venerable3 || Maximum Age
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"
| 35 years || 53 years || 90 years || +2d20 years
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"
| colspan="5" class="foot" |
# At middle age, −1 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha.
# At old age, −2 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha.
# At venerable age, −3 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha.
|}

{| cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" class="d20"
|-
|+ Table: Waterkin Random Height and Weight
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"
! style="text-align: left;" | Gender || Base Height || Height Modifier || Base Weight || Weight Modifier
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"
| style="text-align: left;" | Male || 4' 10" || +2d10 || 125 lb. || × (2d4) lb.
|- class="even" style="white-space: nowrap;"
| style="text-align: left;" | Female || 4' 5" || +2d10 || 85 lb. || × (2d4) lb.
|}

----
{{3.5e Races Breadcrumb}}
{{Cora Footer}}
[[Category:Race]]
[[Category:Humanoid Type]]
[[Category:LA0]]
[[Category:ECL1]]

Races (Cora Supplement)

2009-06-13T23:10:41Z

Sleaker: /* {{#anc:Races of Cora}} */

{{:Cora (DnD Campaign Setting)/Menu}}
<div style="width: 87%">
==Choosing a Race==

Only races listed here are present in Cora, monster races may exist, though they are not intended for players as they do not fit the story, or campaign feel. Choosing a race is a difficult task, considering the number of races on the world. Be careful and thoughtful in your choice, since it affects the rest of your game.

==={{#anc:Races of Cora}}===

{| class="sortable d20" style="text-align: left;"
!Race
!Type
!Description
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| width="100px" | [[Airkin (Cora Race)|Airkin]] || width="115px" | [[Humanoid]] (kin) || width="500px" | Humanoids imbued with the element of air.
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| [[Crystalforged (Cora Race)|Crystalforged]] || [[Construct]] (living) || Living constructs designed originally for war.
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| [[Dakin (Cora Race)|Dakin]] || [[Humanoid]] (kin) || Humanoids with exceptional eyesight, and courage.
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| [[Desertfolk (Cora Race)|Desertfolk]] || [[Humanoid]] (folk) || Hardy people, exceptional at surviving in bad conditions, often uncultured.
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| [[Earthkin (Cora Race)|Earthkin]] || [[Humanoid]] (kin) || Strong, but slow people of the earth.
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| [[Firekin (Cora Race)|Firekin]] || [[Humanoid]] (kin) || Charismatic humanoids with a knack for magic use.
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| [[Forestfolk (Cora Race)|Forestfolk]] || [[Humanoid]] (folk) || The people of the forest.
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| [[Waterkin (Cora Race)|Waterkin]] || [[Humanoid]] (kin) || Humanoids with increased essentia and soulmelding capability.
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| [[Shadowkin (Cora Race)|Shadowkin]] || [[Humanoid]] (kin) || Tricky humanoids, who are usually good at thievery.
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"
| [[Underfolk (Cora Race)|Underfolk]] || [[Humanoid]] (folk) || Exceptional crafters, and miners from the underworld.
|}

</div>
----
{{Cora Footer}}

Character Creation (Cora Supplement)

2009-06-12T05:38:07Z

Sleaker:

{| align="right"
| __TOC__
|}
{{:Cora (DnD Campaign Setting)/Menu}}
<div style="width: 87%">
==Rules for Character Creation==

The world of Cora is designed for the Epic 8 (E8) system. E8 uses all the same rules of DnD 3.5, except that you do not gain levels past 8. Instead of gaining levels, characters can choose feats to continue increasing their characters power. Make sure to check the [[#Advancement|advancement]] rules on how to advance a character in an E8 game.

The first thing you should do is choose a [[Races (Cora Supplement)|race]] from the list of available [[Races (Cora Supplement)|races]]. After you have chosen a race that suits you, find a [[Classes (Cora Supplement)|class]] from the list of available [[Classes (Cora Supplement)|classes]]. Choose your ability scores using the rules listed in the section below. Then choose any feats, flaws, traits, and skills.

==={{#anc:Ability Scores}}===

Your character's ability scores are determined using a 25 point buy, and like in normal character creation, you may not raise a stat above an 18 before racial modifiers.

==={{#anc:Houserules}}===

;Flaws, Traits, & Feats
*You may gain one [[UA:Character Flaws|flaw]] during character creation chosen from the list of [[Character_Options_(Cora_Supplement)#Flaws|flaws]].
*You may gain one [[UA:Character Traits|trait]] during character creation chosen from the list of [[Character_Options_(Cora_Supplement)#Traits|traits]].
*All characters gain one regional, birth, or racial feat at first, this is in addition to the normal feat gained at 1st level.

;Skills
*[[Knowledge]] (Nature) and [[Knowledge]] (Geography) have been rolled up into [[Survival]], for all uses of these knowledge skills use [[Survival]] instead.
*You may use either [[Int]] or [[Wis]] for [[Survival]] whichever is higher.
*You may use either [[Str]] or [[Cha]] for [[Intimidate]] whichever is higher.

;Hit Points
*All Characters gain maximum [[hit points]] for their class + [[constitution]] score at first level, rather than maximum [[hit points]] + [[constitution]] modifier.
*At every other level a character gains [[hit points]] equal to 1/2 [[Hit Dice|hit dice]] + 1 + [[constitution]] modifier. (Ex. A rogue with a [[constitution]] of 12 would gain 5 [[hit points]] at every level above 1st. 3 for their d6 hit die + 1 + constitution modifier of 1)

==={{#anc:Advancement}}===

In the world of Cora your character stops gaining levels at 8th level. After you attain 8th level you may select another feat that you meet the prerequisites for, for every 5,000 experience points you gain. This allows you to continue advancing your character even though you may not be gaining more levels. Make sure to check the [[Character_Options_(Cora_Supplement)#Additional Feats|feats]] page for additional feats that can be used once you have attained 8th level.

==={{#anc:Alignment}}===

Always be careful when choosing your alignment. Generally, evil alignments are off limits, but there are always exceptions. The adventuring party needs to be able to work together, and infighting is never good. Inter-group tension is always good for role-playing purposes, but if it gets too out of hand because your alignment, or personality doesn't match the rest of the groups can lead to frustrated players and mark a stalemate in the game. Make sure you consult your DM before you choose an evil alignment. Don't box yourself in within the alignment, just because you are Lawful doesn't mean you never break any laws. Maybe you hold to a personal set of laws, or a specific cities regulations. Likewise, chaotic doesn't mean you completely disregard laws, or are completely selfish. Alignments should simply be used to help better determine your characters moral compass, and give the DM a short idea of what kinds of actions your character may take with certain other party members.

==={{#anc:Personality}}===

It's always good to give your character a personality. They need a drive, something that motivates their actions for adventuring. Maybe they can't stand the city any longer and want to go see the countryside. Maybe they are curious and want to see where the different planar portals lead. Maybe your character desires great fame or fortune so he takes jobs to earn some cash. Maybe your character is a scholar, sage, or simply looking for more knowledge. Whatever the reason, you should find a motive for your character to be adventuring and expand on it. This allows your DM opportunities to provide you with character progression, not just leveling up, but also to see your character interact with the world he is in. It is important that your character have a flaw, this is critical in every hero story. If your character has no flaws then there can not be a story about him battling with these flaws. Maybe he is over zealous, or cheap. Maybe he is racist, or hates a certain religion, or belief system. Maybe he is a courageous warrior but has a phobia for social situations or tight spaces. Whatever your character is amazing at, make sure you allow him to be equally horrible at something else. This makes your character believable.

==={{#anc:Back Story}}===

A back story is vital to your character. Too much back story leaves your character nowhere to grow. The best back story is one that helps define your character, but still leaves you room to innovate, and grow. Read up (or ask your Dungeon Master) about the Cora setting so you can have some grasp of where you character grew up and the environment he was nurtured in. Sometimes writing out a full back story is too exhausting, it may be simpler to write a short story about your characters upbringing, or throw your character into a few different sticky situations and explain who he met and how he got out of them. This is always helpful to the Dungeon Master, and will give your character more depth along with the world.

</div>
----
{{Cora Footer}}

Mystic Tattoo (3.5e Feat)

2009-06-10T23:40:33Z

Sleaker:

<div class="supplement">
{{author
|author_name=Sleaker
|date_created=5-14-9
|status=Complete
}}

{{3.5e Feat
|name=Mystic Tattoo
|types=Item Creation
|summary=You are able to artistically scribe a magical tattoo that can later be used to cast a spell.
|prereqs=Caster level 1st.
|benefit=You are able to tattoo yourself, and others with any spell that you know. Creating a Mystical Tattoo takes one hour for each 1,000 gp in its base price. The base price of a mystical tattoo is its spell level × its caster level × 25 gp. To create a mystical tattoo, you must spend 1/25 of this base price in XP and use up raw materials costing one-half of this base price. You may have have up to four mystical tattoos on each of your arms. You must be attuned to a Cora Stone to use a mystical tattoo, and once it has been read, the tattoo magically disappears.
|special=A character with the [[Use Magic Device]] skill may use a tattoo by making a skill check with DC of 20 + the spell's level.
}}

----
{{3.5e Feats Breadcrumb}} → [[DnD Item Creation Feats|Item Creation Feats]]

[[Category:DnD]]
[[Category:3.5e]]
[[Category:User]]
[[Category:Feat]]
[[Category:Item Creation Feat]]
[[Category:General Feat]]
[[Category:E8 Feat]]

</div>

Organizations (Cora Supplement)

2009-06-02T16:18:18Z

Sleaker: /* {{#anc:Guilds}} */

{| align=right
| __TOC__
|}

{{:Cora (DnD Campaign Setting)/Menu}}
<div style="width: 87%">
==The Role of Organizations==

Organized groups make up most of the power in Cora. If someone is powerful, or wealthy, or has a tradeskill that's useful, then they are more than likely associated with a group or two in their local area. Whether it's a church or a guild, or maybe they are a part of both. The bulk of Cora falls into a follower of one of those two. Orders have a tendency to recruit those with top notch skills, and assets. Becoming a member in any of the orders in cora is viewed as an honor and a very well honored title.

==={{#anc: Realms}}===

====The Empire====

==={{#anc:Churches}}===

====Imperial Church====

"The Imperial Church is the Empire" is a well known saying and it is because the two are inseparable. The Emperor is the head of the Imperial Church, and ever since it's creation the imperial church has been the main body of government throughout the empire. It is what holds the people together. The religious focus of the church teaches that all lives are made to live for the Emperor, thus "You live and you die all for the Emperor" is a commonly accepted belief. This has caused the imperial church to dissuade it's followers from worshiping any gods, though everyone in the empire is taught of their existence. Instead the church promotes the sharing of ideas and technology as a way to bring people together under the name of the emperor. The Imperial Church is made of four distinct and separate sects; blades, hammers, clerics, and thinkers. The blades are the military force of the empire, which contains the Order of the Horn and any other active and reserve forces. Often a citizen will enter the blades at a young age to learn the ways of military and then be put into reserve. Those in reserve often pursue jobs with the Merch & Merc guild, whether a mercenary or a smith, both are fairly common. The hammers are the workforce of the Imperial church and make up the largest portion of it. The hammers include any working class citizen of the empire, from jester to miner. The clerics are those directly affiliated with running the church; they are advisors, tax collectors, couriers, or other people that help make the church run. Thinkers are the researchers of the empire. They are usually the most well trained and knowledgeable people in the realm. The thinkers also contain a high number of people who can attune to and use cora stones.
All citizens of the empire are required to join one of the sects of the imperial church, though there are a few who choose not to register, or who forge their papers because of the law. Without the proper papers it is hard to travel from city to city, and you can only get papers if you are a registered citizen.

==={{#anc:Orders}}===

====Order of the Horn====

The Order of the Horn is the elite military force in the realm, they account for a small percentage of the military though. Only those who meet their qualifications may join, and the restrictions are very high, making the Order of the Horn an elite force most would not want be on the bad side of. Even though there may only be two or three individuals in a small town that represent the order, they are usually much more well trained than any criminal would hope to outsmart, with the added benefit of being able to call in help from the larger cities if a situation gets out of hand. The Order of the Horn is open to people of upstanding citizenship in the empire, who have nearly any background. If you are the best at what you do, then the Order might be for you. The order's headquarters are located in the capital of the empire, Prima Gratia.

==={{#anc:Guilds}}===

====The Merch & Merc====

The Merch and Merc Guild is the primary guild that deals with merchants and mercenaries in the empire. While the Order of the Hand does a great job of policing the towns and cities from unwelcome guests, there are few patrols beyond the walls of the cities, making the countryside a bandits heaven. In a move to band together the merchants and mercenaries created a regulated guild to help protect merchants and make it easy to pair them with protection. The guild has expanded far beyond it's original goals though, and now if you even want to trade in a city, or town you must first register with the Merch and Merc Guild, or face imprisonment by the empire. The headquarters for the Merch & Merc are in Prima Gratia, the capital of the empire. The Merch & Merc banner is a black gauntlet holding a small coin sack, gripped in a fist.

====The Silence====

More a secret society than a guild, the Silence is considered the enemy of the Merch and Merc. It is a guild focused on raiding, thieving, stealing, and circumventing the laws of the empire, and those established by the Merch & Merc guild. Many who seek to join the Silence have been oppressed by the Merch & Merc in the past, or have decided that they don't want to follow the ways of an upstanding citizen. The Silence operates primarily outside of the cities where the Order of the Hand has less men, and less eyes to see their movements. Interestingly, the Silence has seen more [[Shadowkin (Cora Race)|Shadowkin]] recruits than any other race, and sees very few [[Dakin (Cora Race)|Dakin]]. The Silence has no known headquarters, and no known leader, though there are always rumors about a hidden cave, or hidden wooden village that the Silence works out of. The Silence also deals in forged papers. Sometimes a member of the guild will get in trouble with the empire, and when this does happen it's always good to have a set of forged papers around.

====The Water Lords====

Though not quite so illustrious as the Order of the Horn, the Water Lords boast the longest standing military tradition of and private military in the world of Cora. A tradition that has lasted more than six hundred years strong, and has never changed as to it's effectiveness. Founded by Bandit King Alugal Damu I after discovering a deep rooted system of water in the desert of Haldor. Holding the vast monopoly of water in such an inhospitable place gave them a dominating monopoly on trade in the region. The citadel City of
A variant for the arabic word Oasis. Coptyc was founded as a headquarters to the private military. And though many uprisings have ensued against the corrupt city, all have been quelled

Even though it is a mercenary Enclave, the Water Lords are one of the few true standing armies in the whole of Cora. And though their tactics are infamous they have been esteemed legendary strategist and ruthless opponents adopting the notion that if your enemy has no populace they lack the funding and support to stand up in an engagement. Men and women hailing from the Water Lords are warily viewed as they are known to be both calculating and brutal.

</div>
----
{{Cora Footer}}

Cities and Sites (Cora Supplement)

2009-06-02T08:07:28Z

Sleaker:

{| align="right"
| __TOC__
|}

{{:Cora (DnD Campaign Setting)/Menu}}
<div style="width: 87%">

These are the major cities of Cora.

===Prima Gratia===

Prima Gratia is the largest city in Cora, both in size and in population. It has stayed remarkably dominated by the kin races despite proclaiming an open door policy to the other races. The only other race that sees even a small population base are the [[Crystalforged (Cora Race)|Crystalforged]] who have no particular place to call their homeland.

{{City Table
|name=Prima Gratia
|pop=250000
|power=Monarchy, Representative, Guilds
|align=Lawful Neutral
|assets=100,000,000
|auth=Favir Torhgan, [[Earthkin (Cora Race)|Earthkin]] Male, [[Order Initiate (DnD Class)|Order Initiate8]] (Emperor)
|races=Mixed 20% [[Airkin (Cora Race)|Airkin]], 17% [[Dakin (Cora Race)|Dakin]], 17% [[Earthkin (Cora Race)|Earthkin]], 16% [[Firekin (Cora Race)|Firekin]], 15% [[Waterkin (Cora Race)|Waterkin]], 13% [[Shadowkin (Cora Race)|Shadowkin]], 2% [[Crystalforged (Cora Race)|Crystalforged]])
|imp=
|guards=
}}

'''Exports:''' 
''Coinage; Stone; Food Stuffs; Weapons; Luxury Items; Tradesman 
Gold, Silver, Copper, and Stone are all mined locally. Most silver and gold is used to produce coins while copper is often used to make military weapons. Rice and olives are farmed locally, and in surplus. Fine Wines, Mead, Honey, Silks, perfumes, and oils are created within Prima Gratia which helps keep the cost of the more luxurious amenities low. Iron and tin are also mined locally, giving Prima Gratia a good supply of useable minerals for it's large forges.

'''Imports:''' 
''Lumber; Common Grains; Tradesman'' 
Hilly terrain does not promote the healthy growth of trees. The Sub-Tropical climate is not conducive to the growth of grains that are considered "hardier" as the moisture rich soil is not properly aerated. Lumber workers, Carpenters, and other similar tradesman are in short supply.

===Ithas===

Ithas is a town near the mountains on the southern border of Gratia and links the main of Gratia through a tradeport and a bustling merchant road. It is controlled and regulated by the Empire, though it would be stretching to say that the Empire controlled it completely. There are many factions, and guilds non-supportive to the Empire at work in one of the most prosperous towns in all of Cora. It is unusual and speculated on as to why the Empire hasn't taken more of an interest in the city, or begun to lock down on criminal activities.

{{City Table
|name=Ithas
|pop=40000
|assets=12,000,000
|power=Republic, Guilds
|align=Lawful Neutral
|auth=Igron Rox, [[Dakin (Cora Race)|Dakin]] Male, [[SRD:Expert|Exp5]] (Governor)
|races=Mixed (20% [[Airkin (Cora Race)|Airkin]], 17% [[Dakin (Cora Race)|Dakin]], 17% [[Earthkin (Cora Race)|Earthkin]], 16% [[Firekin (Cora Race)|Firekin]], 15% [[Waterkin (Cora Race)|Waterkin]], 10% [[Shadowkin (Cora Race)|Shadowkin]], 3% [[Desertfolk (Cora Race)|Desertfolk]], 2% [[Crystalforged (Cora Race)|Crystalforged]])
|imp=Ogrand Farlo, Male [[Earthkin (Cora Race)|Earthkin]] [[Mercenary (DnD Class)|Merc6]] ([[Organizations (Cora Supplement)#Orders|Order of the Horn]] Headmaster & Guard Captain); Fillora Trouk, Female [[Airkin (Cora Race)|Airkin]] [[SRD:Expert|Exp]]4 ([[Organizations (Cora Supplement)#Guilds|Merch & Merc]] Headmaster)
|guards=Soldier [[Mercenary (DnD Class)|Merc1]] (x5000); Officer [[Mercenary (DnD Class)|Merc2]] (x200)
}}

===Valora===

Valrola is the capital city of the underworld, it is mostly populated by Underfolk, though it does have a minority crystalforged population. It is the main city of trade, research and magical advancement in the underworld.

{{City Table
|name=Valora
|pop=300000
|assets=500,000,000
|power=Monarchy
|align=Lawful Neutral
|auth=Grixol Haril, [[Underfolk (Cora Race)|Underfolk]] Male, [[Stonemelder (DnD Class)|Ston8]] (Monarch)
|races=Dominant (98% [[Underfolk (Cora Race)|Underfolk]], 2% [[Crystalforged (Cora Race)|Crystalforged]]
|imp=
|guards=Construct (x20000); Officer [[Stonemelder (DnD Class)|Ston2]] (x200)
}}

</div>
----
{{Cora Footer}}

Cities and Sites (Cora Supplement)

2009-06-02T08:06:29Z

Sleaker: /* Prima Gratia */

{| align="right"
| __TOC__
|}

{{:Cora (DnD Campaign Setting)/Menu}}
<div style="width: 87%">

These are the major cities of Cora.

===Prima Gratia===

Prima Gratia is the largest city in Cora, both in size and in population. It has stayed remarkably dominated by the kin races despite proclaiming an open door policy to the other races. The only other race that sees even a small population base are the [[Crystalforged (Cora Race)|Crystalforged]] who have no particular place to call their homeland.

{{City Table
|name=Prima Gratia
|pop=250000
|power=Monarchy, Representative, Guilds
|align=Lawful Neutral
|assets=100,000,000
|auth=Favir Torhgan, [[Earthkin (Cora Race)|Earthkin]] Male, [[Order Initiate (DnD Class)|Order Initiate8]] (Emperor)
|races=Mixed 20% [[Airkin (Cora Race)|Airkin]], 17% [[Dakin (Cora Race)|Dakin]], 17% [[Earthkin (Cora Race)|Earthkin]], 16% [[Firekin (Cora Race)|Firekin]], 15% [[Waterkin (Cora Race)|Waterkin]], 13% [[Shadowkin (Cora Race)|Shadowkin]], 2% [[Crystalforged (Cora Race)|Crystalforged]])
|imp=
|guards=
}}

'''Exports:'''
''Coinage; Stone; Food Stuffs; Weapons; Luxury Items; Tradesman
Gold, Silver, Copper, and Stone are all mined locally. Most silver and gold is used to produce coins while copper is often used to make military weapons. Rice and olives are farmed locally, and in surplus. Fine Wines, Mead, Honey, Silks, perfumes, and oils are created within Prima Gratia which helps keep the cost of the more luxurious amenities low. Iron and tin are also mined locally, giving Prima Gratia a good supply of useable minerals for it's large forges.

'''Imports:'''
''Lumber; Common Grains; Tradesman''
Hilly terrain does not promote the healthy growth of trees. The Sub-Tropical climate is not conducive to the growth of grains that are considered "hardier" as the moisture rich soil is not properly aerated. Lumber workers, Carpenters, and other similar tradesman are in short supply.

===Ithas===

Ithas is a town near the mountains on the southern border of Gratia and links the main of Gratia through a tradeport and a bustling merchant road. It is controlled and regulated by the Empire, though it would be stretching to say that the Empire controlled it completely. There are many factions, and guilds non-supportive to the Empire at work in one of the most prosperous towns in all of Cora. It is unusual and speculated on as to why the Empire hasn't taken more of an interest in the city, or begun to lock down on criminal activities.

{{City Table
|name=Ithas
|pop=40000
|assets=12,000,000
|power=Republic, Guilds
|align=Lawful Neutral
|auth=Igron Rox, [[Dakin (Cora Race)|Dakin]] Male, [[SRD:Expert|Exp5]] (Governor)
|races=Mixed (20% [[Airkin (Cora Race)|Airkin]], 17% [[Dakin (Cora Race)|Dakin]], 17% [[Earthkin (Cora Race)|Earthkin]], 16% [[Firekin (Cora Race)|Firekin]], 15% [[Waterkin (Cora Race)|Waterkin]], 10% [[Shadowkin (Cora Race)|Shadowkin]], 3% [[Desertfolk (Cora Race)|Desertfolk]], 2% [[Crystalforged (Cora Race)|Crystalforged]])
|imp=Ogrand Farlo, Male [[Earthkin (Cora Race)|Earthkin]] [[Mercenary (DnD Class)|Merc6]] ([[Organizations (Cora Supplement)#Orders|Order of the Horn]] Headmaster & Guard Captain); Fillora Trouk, Female [[Airkin (Cora Race)|Airkin]] [[SRD:Expert|Exp]]4 ([[Organizations (Cora Supplement)#Guilds|Merch & Merc]] Headmaster)
|guards=Soldier [[Mercenary (DnD Class)|Merc1]] (x5000); Officer [[Mercenary (DnD Class)|Merc2]] (x200)
}}

===Valora===

Valrola is the capital city of the underworld, it is mostly populated by Underfolk, though it does have a minority crystalforged population. It is the main city of trade, research and magical advancement in the underworld.

{{City Table
|name=Valora
|pop=300000
|assets=500,000,000
|power=Monarchy
|align=Lawful Neutral
|auth=Grixol Haril, [[Underfolk (Cora Race)|Underfolk]] Male, [[Stonemelder (DnD Class)|Ston8]] (Monarch)
|races=Dominant (98% [[Underfolk (Cora Race)|Underfolk]], 2% [[Crystalforged (Cora Race)|Crystalforged]]
|imp=
|guards=Construct (x20000); Officer [[Stonemelder (DnD Class)|Ston2]] (x200)
}}

</div>
----
{{Cora Footer}}

Elemental Strike (3.5e Boost)

2009-05-28T23:06:10Z

Sleaker:

{{author
|author_name=Sleaker
|date_created=5-11-9
|status=Complete
}}

{{3.5e Boost
|name=Elemental Strike
|summary=Your attacks become infused with the element of a cora stone you are attuned to.
|type=Standard
|level=1
|desc=Weapons you wield deal an additional 1d6 points of damage dependant on the color of stone you have attuned as listed: 
'''Black''' — negative energy 
''' Blue''' — [[Electricity Effect|electricity]] damage 
'''Brown''' — [[Acid Effect|acid]] damage 
'''Clear''' — [[Sonic Effect|sonic]] damage 
'''Gray''' — [[Force Effect|force]] damage 
'''Green''' — physical damage 
'''Red''' — [[Fire Effect|fire]] damage 
'''Yellow''' — positive energy 
'''White''' — [[Cold Effect|cold]] damage
}}

----
{{3.5e Boosts Breadcrumb}}

[[Category:DnD]]
[[Category:User]]
[[Category:Boosts]]
[[Category:Standard 1]]

Elemental Strike (3.5e Boost)

2009-05-28T23:05:58Z

Sleaker:

{{author
|author_name=Sleaker
|date_created=5-11-9
|status=Complete
}}

{{3.5e Boost
|name=Elemental Strike
|summary=Your attacks become infused with the element of a cora stone you are attuned to.''
|type=Standard
|level=1
|desc=Weapons you wield deal an additional 1d6 points of damage dependant on the color of stone you have attuned as listed: 
'''Black''' — negative energy 
''' Blue''' — [[Electricity Effect|electricity]] damage 
'''Brown''' — [[Acid Effect|acid]] damage 
'''Clear''' — [[Sonic Effect|sonic]] damage 
'''Gray''' — [[Force Effect|force]] damage 
'''Green''' — physical damage 
'''Red''' — [[Fire Effect|fire]] damage 
'''Yellow''' — positive energy 
'''White''' — [[Cold Effect|cold]] damage
}}

----
{{3.5e Boosts Breadcrumb}}

[[Category:DnD]]
[[Category:User]]
[[Category:Boosts]]
[[Category:Standard 1]]

Classes (Cora Supplement)

2009-05-28T23:05:03Z

Sleaker: /* {{#anc:Classes}} */

{{:Cora (DnD Campaign Setting)/Menu}}
<div style="width: 87%">
==Class Selection==

Only the classes listed here are found within the world of Cora. Magic works much differently in the World of Cora than in campaign settings. Because of this, the arcane spellcasting classes that would normally be available have been changed, and remade to fit the setting. The deities are much less benevolent toward their followers, and have no power to grant them any divine spells, likewise simply following a cause does not grant people divine powers. Divine classes have been completely removed, and their contained spells have been rolled into the available classes. The magic in Cora is arcane in nature, though wielders of the magics may use it without fear of having spells ruined because they wear armor. Though as a tradeoff the only way anyone can utilize these arcane powers is through a focus, the cora stones themselves. Some classes are able to utilize the cora stones to enhance the party through auras or even build their own constructs.

==={{#anc:Classes}}===

These classes were specifically designed to be used in the world of Cora or were made by someone else and fit the setting quite nicely.

{| class="sortable d20" style="text-align: left;"
!Class
!Role
!Features
|-
| BinderToM || Support || [[Magic and Psionics (Cora Supplement)#Pact Magic|Pact Magic]], [[Pantheon (Cora Supplement)|Vestiges]]1
|-
| [[Evoker (DnD Class)|Evoker]] || Support || Heavy Spellcasting, Cora Stone Attunement
|-
| width="125px" | [[Frontiersman (DnD Class)|Frontiersman]] || width="125px" | Scout, Skills || width="350px" | Ranged Expertise, Sniping.
|-
| [[Mercenary (DnD Class)|Mercenary]] || Melee, Tank || Replacement Fighter
|-
| [[Order Initiate (DnD Class)|Order Initiate]] || Melee, Tank || Skilled Fighter, uses Boosts much like Manuevers
|-
| [[Soulshaper (DnD Class)|Soulshaper]] || Support || Incarnum, Invocations
|-
| [[Stonemelder (DnD Class)|Stonemelder]] || Support || Auras, Cora Stone Attunement, Pet Class.
|-
| class="foot" colspan="3" |
# Only the Deities from the Corean Pantheon can be used as vestiges
|}

</div>
----
{{Cora Footer}}

Forestfolk (Cora Race)

2009-05-25T08:27:53Z

Sleaker: /* Racial Traits */

{{author
|author_name=Sleaker
|date_created=2-25-09
|status=Complete
|editing=Formatting Only
}}
{{:Cora (DnD Campaign Setting)/Menu}}
{{x0
|la=+0
|ecl=1
|type=[[Humanoid]] (folk)
|ability_adjust=+2 to [[Dexterity]], −2 to [[Constitution]]
|size=Small
|favored_class=Any
|desc=Some race
}}

=Forestfolk=

Forestfolk, also known to some as the Arlan to some, are the defenders of the forest. They are small, and furry, with small curved horns protruding from the tops of their heads. Their hair is a light blue to gray color and sometimes even a tint of green. They are quite amiable to those who don't encroach on their land, and have so far been friendly with those from the Empire, though they are not a part of it. The Forestfolk live in tree-houses, build from vines, and the downed trees. Most are inclined to stay home and follow in their families footsteps, which limits the number of forestfolk adventurers, though some have been known to join merchant caravans passing through so they can see the world and learn a bit of what goes on outside the forests.

==Racial Traits==

* +2 [[Dexterity]], −2 [[Constitution]]
* '''[[Humanoid]]''' (folk)
* '''[[Small]]:''' As a Small creature, a forestfolk gains a +1 size bonus to [[SRD:AC|Armor Class]], a +1 size bonus on attack rolls, and a +4 size bonus on [[Hide]] checks, but they use smaller weapons than [[medium]] sized creatures, and their lifting and carrying limits are three-quarters of those of a [[Medium]] character.
* Forestfolk base land speed is 30 feet.
* '''[[Low-Light Vision]]:''' A forestfolk can see twice as far as normal in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. They retain the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.
* Forestfolk are Immune to sleep spells and similar magical effects, and get a +2 racial bonus on saving throws against enchantment spells or effects.
* +2 racial bonus on [[Listen]], and [[Move Silently]], and [[Survival]] checks.
* '''Woodland stride (Ex):''' forestfolk may move through any sort of undergrowth (such as natural thorns, briars, overgrown areas, and similar terrain) at her normal speed and without taking damage or suffering any other impairment. However, thorns, briars, and overgrown areas that have been magically manipulated to impede motion still affect her.
* [[Survival]] is always a class skill for a forestfolk.
* [[Automatic Languages]]: Common, Forestspeak
* [[Favored Class]]: Any.

==Vital Statistics==

{| class="d20" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"
|+ Table: Forestfolk Random Starting Ages
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"
! Adulthood || Simple || Moderate || Complex
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"
| 12 years || +1d3 || +1d4 || +2d4
|}

{| class="d20" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"
|+ Table:Forestfolk Aging Effects
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"
! Middle Age1 || Old2 || Venerable3 || Maximum Age
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"
| 45 years || 65 years || 100 years || +3d20 years
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"
| colspan="5" class="foot" |
# At middle age, −1 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha.
# At old age, −2 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha.
# At venerable age, −3 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha.
|}

{| cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" class="d20"
|-
|+ Table:  Random Height and Weight
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"
! style="text-align: left;" | Gender || Base Height || Height Modifier || Base Weight || Weight Modifier
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"
| style="text-align: left;" | Male || 2' 5" || +2d8 || 60 lb. || × (2d4) lb.
|- class="even" style="white-space: nowrap;"
| style="text-align: left;" | Female || 2' 1" || +2d8 || 50 lb. || × (2d4) lb.
|}

----
{{3.5e Races Breadcrumb}}
{{Cora Footer}}
[[Category:Race]]
[[Category:Humanoid Type]]
[[Category:LA0]]
[[Category:ECL1]]