Talk:Main Page

2007-08-17T01:11:26Z

Quill: /* 4th edition */

{{Archives
|label1=Discussions 1–20
|label2=Discussions 21–39
}}

== Name [[The Tavern]] ==

Hello everyone,

To create a place for general chat and banter, please go to [[The Tavern]] and help naming the place! --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 01:51, 20 June 2007 (MDT)

== Getting a D&D game going. ==

I was wondering if anyone knew any good sites for getting a game together or finding games, or any good programs. We might also want to ask those sites if they want to become affiliated with us. I also wanted to see if any of you wanted to play. --[[User:Shadethedemon|DeadlyNightShade]] 13:41, 22 June 2007 (MDT)

:I do not know of any, sorry... --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:08, 30 July 2007 (MDT)

== Templates ==

[[Image:Stop_hand.png|right]]
There are a lot of templates in use at D&D Wiki, most of them rather unpleasant to the eye. Open a page like [[SRD:Skill Focus (Feat)]]. 4 lines of relevant text, 3 templates, 2 of them with the ugly stop hand image (see left). If you see the page for the first time, it's like a shock. What did I do wrong? What am I doing here? Compare to the same content on [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#skillFocus d20srd.org]. Obviously, it's not necessary to decorate every page with boxes. I suggest we merge the 3 boxes that are currently found on every SRD page into one, remove the stop hand and give it a more pleasant colour scheme.

I have a similar issue with the "Balance" box. Look at a class page like [[Overlord (DnD Class)]]. I have to scroll 1 1/2 pages before I see any text content, because there is a TOC, the author box, an image, and that superfluous Balance box. We should move that Balance box to the bottom of pages. If I look at a class, I don't want to see the balance rating first, I want to get a general image of what it's about. The balance box can be at the page footer. If you want to add the balance rating at the top of the page, use the space on the right next to the page title. --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 21:22, 9 August 2007 (MDT)

:Before I respond I would like to say that the [[Overlord (DnD Class)]] is not formatted right; the image is not correct, etc. If the image was correctly formatted the text would start almost right away. Please use examples of correctly formatted classes, thanks. As a side comment the images on that class are very very nice, kudos if you made em ''':)'''. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:36, 9 August 2007 (MDT)

::About the templates, I agree. We can merge them/make them better. Please post any ideas you have here, thanks. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 21:40, 10 August 2007 (MDT)

:::I did. Merge the templates, remove the picture, blank out the OGL Top template, change the colour. Now it's "the community's" turn. --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 06:53, 12 August 2007 (MDT)

::::I kind of meant an example... Also, as a starter, I am looking at changing our [[Template:Admin Locked Page]] to [[wikirps:Template:Restricted]]'s look. What do you think about this idea? Also, I feel that [[Template:Admin Locked Page]] is a bit of a silly name, and could be re-named... --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:57, 12 August 2007 (MDT)

:::::The admin locked template is okay as it blends in the color scheme, I'm more worried about the other two. What could work is use the admin locked template as basis, but a horizontal line in and add the "this page is under OGL / content from SRD" announcement there. Then all you need to do is change the footer template in all SRD pages. Well, I did plan overhaul the SRD so all pages contain a footer template, but I got stopped in the process. --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 03:25, 13 August 2007 (MDT)

::::::Do you mean something like this?
::::::{| class="messagebox protected" style="border:2px solid #99B; padding:0px; font-size:0.9em;"
|-
| valign="top" | [[Image:Stop_hand.png|45px| ]]
| '''This material is published under the [[Open Game License v1.0a]]. The [[GNU Free Documentation License]] does not apply to this page.
|}
::::::or this?
::::::{| class="messagebox protected" style="border:2px solid #99B; padding:0px; font-size:0.9em;" border=0 cellpadding=2 cellspacing=2 text-align: center"
|-
| [[Image:Stop hand small.png]] || colspan=2 style="font-size: .9em;" | This material is published under the [[Open Game License v1.0a]]. The [[GNU Free Documentation License]] does not apply to this page.
|}
::::::To replace [[Template:OGL Top]]? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 16:09, 13 August 2007 (MDT)

:::::::Both are better (though I prefer the former). If you don't like the "stop" image, why not replace it with a D20? It sorta fits in better with the SRD than a stop sign. What do you think? To be honest, I am more interested in content than templates, but it is nice to have nice-looking pages... I would like to say that I like the "balance, author and contents first" formatting, so I am happy to keep it. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 07:52, 14 August 2007 (MDT)

::::::::Okay, how does this look? Better?
::::::::{| class="messagebox protected" style="border:2px solid #99B; padding:0px; font-size:0.9em;" border=0 cellpadding=2 cellspacing=2 text-align: center"
|-
| [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|30px]] || colspan=2 style="font-size: .9em;" | This material is published under the [[Open Game License v1.0a]]. The [[GNU Free Documentation License]] does not apply to this page.
|}
::::::::Should the image be larger or is it okay like it is? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:13, 14 August 2007 (MDT)

:::::::::Thats ok, though I prefer this one:
:::::::{| class="messagebox protected" style="border:2px solid #99B; padding:0px; font-size:0.9em;"
|-
| valign="top" | [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|45px]]
| '''This material is published under the [[Open Game License v1.0a]]. The [[GNU Free Documentation License]] does not apply to this page.
|}
:::::::::Although either is just as good... --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 12:18, 14 August 2007 (MDT)

::::::::::I agree with Sam Kay. The thing I like about that version is that it is readable, it doesn't look like "you shouldn't be looking at this page", and it shows the affiliation with the SRD and OGL by using the d20 image. --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 12:23, 14 August 2007 (MDT)

:::::::::::Prettier. I like. --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 12:39, 14 August 2007 (MDT)

::::::::::::Okay, which one should replace [[Template:OGL Top]] the smaller one or the larger one? Personally I like the smaller one so it will be less obtrusive... Ideas? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:40, 14 August 2007 (MDT)

:::::::::::::I took the second one and reduced the amount of bold text. Looks good now. --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 21:32, 14 August 2007 (MDT)
:::::::::::::{| class="messagebox protected" style="border:2px solid #99B; padding:0px; font-size:0.9em;"
|-
| valign="top" | [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|45px]]
| This material is published under the '''[[Open Game License v1.0a]]'''. The [[GNU Free Documentation License]] does not apply to this page.
|}

''→Reverted indentation to one colon''

:How about this... Instead of making a huge noticable template for the top we have something like
:{| style="text-align: center" width="100%"
| [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|40px]] This material is published under the [[OGL]]. [[Main Page|→More]]
|}
:or
:{| style="text-align: center; font-size:0.9em;" width="100%"
| [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|40px]] This material is published under the [[OGL]]. [[Main Page|→More]]
|}
: where "More" links to a "span id" in the page brought by [[Template:OGL Bottom]]? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 02:28, 15 August 2007 (MDT)

::Yeah... those ones would look good at the end of each SRD page. In the end, it is up to you, [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]]. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 04:17, 15 August 2007 (MDT)

:::Wait, so you prefer those for bottom templates? I was thinking they could replace [[Template:OGL Top]] and then we could work on the bottom after we have decided the top... I am a fan of having the smaller of the last two choices replace [[Template:OGL Top]]. Ideas? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 10:38, 15 August 2007 (MDT)

::::Less space is always good. Pick the smaller one. --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 10:47, 15 August 2007 (MDT)

:::::Do we really need a top AND a bottom template? Why not just have a top template? Dunno. If we really need a bottom and top template, why not have:

:::::{| class="messagebox protected" style="border:2px solid #99B; padding:0px; font-size:0.9em;"
|-
| valign="top" | [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|45px]]
| '''This material is published under the [[Open Game License v1.0a]]. The [[GNU Free Documentation License]] does not apply to this page.
|}

:::::SRD stuff, yada yada yada, ect...

:::::{| style="text-align: center; font-size:0.9em;" width="100%"
| [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|40px]] This material is published under the [[OGL]]. [[Main Page|→More]]
|}
:::::Any good?--[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 10:51, 15 August 2007 (MDT)

::::::I like the top to be small so you can get straight to the text. In fact, it might be preferable to do something like:
::::::<center>[[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|40px]]</center>
::::::At the top, and on the bottom (Mkill's):
::::::{| class="messagebox protected" style="border:2px solid #99B; padding:0px; font-size:0.9em;"
|-
| valign="top" | [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|45px]]
| This material is published under the '''[[Open Game License v1.0a]]'''. The [[GNU Free Documentation License]] does not apply to this page.
|}
::::::The top could link to the bottom part. That way there is little white space at the top, but it ''identifies'' the page as an SRD page. --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 10:55, 15 August 2007 (MDT)

:::::::Here is what I think may look good. Just having the D20 Systems Logo on the top at 40px ([[User:Aarnott|Aarnott's]] Idea) and then on the bottom having a slightly modified [[User:Mkill|Mkills']] idea that looks like
:::::::{| class="messagebox protected" style="border:2px solid #99B; padding:0px; font-size:0.9em;"
|-
| valign="top" | [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|45px]]
| This material is published under the '''[[Open Game License v1.0a]]'''. The [[GNU Free Documentation License]] does not apply to this page. [[Template:OGL Bottom|→More Information]]
|}
:::::::Where "More Information" would link to something that says what the current [[Template:OGL Bottom]] says. What do you guys think about this idea? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 18:42, 15 August 2007 (MDT)

::::::::I prefer a single, bottom box. I've always thought the top mark redundant. The focus on opening an article should always be the article itself. If you must put a d20 logo on the page, put it in the top-right. --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 18:48, 15 August 2007 (MDT)

:::::::::I absolutely agree with Dmilewski. The OGL_Top template should only place the D20 logo in the top right corner, and there should be one box at the bottom saying 1. this is SRD material 2. it is under OGL 3. this page is locked. --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 07:18, 16 August 2007 (MDT)

::::::::::Agreed (though I guess it was really the point I was saying before). The D20 logo will help ''identify'' a page as an SRD page for a user, which I think is important. The bottom footer is unobtrusive and gives the required info. --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 08:18, 16 August 2007 (MDT)

:::::::::::Yeah. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 08:20, 16 August 2007 (MDT)

::::::::::::Looks like we have a community agreement. So the OGL_Top template would be changed to
::::::::::::<nowiki>[[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|left|45px]]</nowiki>
::::::::::::--[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 08:47, 16 August 2007 (MDT)

:::::::::::::The top template has been changed, however to <nowiki>[[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|right|45px]]</nowiki>. Now for the bottom template... ideas? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 10:46, 16 August 2007 (MDT)

''→Reverted indentation to one colon''

:I do like the d20 logo looks, but I question whether or not it's appropriate. Not everything that uses the d20 System is under OGL. Given that there are a number of gamers that keep thinking anything that is OGC is part of the SRD (such as the UA, and the S&S products), I worry that using the d20 logo to identify OGLed material might be promoting the misconception. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 11:15, 16 August 2007 (MDT)

::Oh, I see what you mean. I completely forgot that non-SRD items also use that template... Arrg, this is becoming a lot harder that it first looked. Maybe we could change all non-SRD items that use that template to use a different one (or none at all?) and keep it on the SRD items? Or we could take the easy route and just change the template to something that works for everything..? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 11:32, 16 August 2007 (MDT)

:::I'd change the non-SRD stuff. Have them use a different template... Because they are different! --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 11:51, 16 August 2007 (MDT)

::::Or what we could do is just change [[Template:OGL Top]] to say something like "''This material is published under the '''[[Open Game License v1.0a|OGL]]'''''. in the right hand corner of the screen. That would be the easy way to make this all work... --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 14:20, 16 August 2007 (MDT)

== Meta Pages ==

I say that we should move the link to the [[Meta Pages]] off the [[Main Page]] and onto the sidebar (under navigation). The reason I see this as a good idea is because the average user goes here for content, not for seeing the infrastructure of D&D Wiki. I find that the average user has no need for [[Meta Pages]] while a more consistant user will use it (and can find it on the sidebar). I also do not want the Main Page getting cluttered. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:04, 10 August 2007 (MDT)

:I agree. I have only ever used it twice, and it is really only needed occaisionally. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 13:35, 10 August 2007 (MDT)

::Done and done. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 14:09, 10 August 2007 (MDT)

== 4th edition ==

I don't really want to recreate the rumours and excitement concerning the upcoming 4th edition, but it looks like we need to think about a way to handle it here. It's pretty sure that there will be two editions in parallel use, at least for a while, so we need a way to separate editions. Tagging articles [[:Category:3.5]] and [[:Category:4.0]] wouldn't be too hard, what I'm concerned about is article lemmata for articles that exists in different versions for different editions.

Also, it's not clear yet whether there will be a 4th edition SRD. I hope there will be one. --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 08:50, 16 August 2007 (MDT)

:Might be a good idea to put SRD 3.5 articles with a template underneath (this is only a suggestion, not an attempt to have a million templates per page):

:{| style="text-align: center; font-size:0.9em;" width="100%"
| [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|40px]] This material is published under the [[V3.5 rules]]. [[Main Page|→More]]
|}

:Although, there might be too many templates if we do this. perhaps we could replace the SRD template to this for 3.5 articles:

:{| class="messagebox protected" style="border:2px solid #99B; padding:0px; font-size:0.9em;"
|-
| valign="top" | [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|45px]]
| This material is published under the '''[[Open Game License v1.0a]]'''. The [[GNU Free Documentation License]] does not apply to this page. This material is for the D&D [[V 3.5 rules]].
|}

:We don't really need to mark homebrew stuff- it should work for 4.0 rules anyway. Whatre can I find news on the 4th edition, anyway? --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 09:10, 16 August 2007 (MDT)

::Have you been at the WotC Homepage lately? Did you notice something? --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 09:48, 16 August 2007 (MDT)

:::If 4e is really coming out we can most likely just slap on a small template on all 4e things or all 3.5e things. Also, the categories you said above will work. I do not see it as too much of a problem... --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 10:55, 16 August 2007 (MDT)

::::According to my reasearch, it ios not out until 2011 (rather silly really; why advertise it four and a bit years before its release), so we really do not have to bother with it yet, anyway. {{Unsigned|Sam Kay|10:04, 16 August 2007 (MDT)}}

:::Boo! Hsssss! I had a browser tab open for the last ten minutes of the countdown of the [http://www.wizards.com/dnd D&D] page. Once it finished, I got "Service Unavailable". About as disappointing as 3.0 psionics. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 16:35, 16 August 2007 (MDT)

::::Lol ''':)'''. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 16:38, 16 August 2007 (MDT)

:::::4th edition is definitely coming. We really need to sit down, argue, butt heads, and work out the namespacing issues now. Thankfully, 3E has a namespace already. We have lots to sort out. Wikiworld will instantly be 4th compatible, as I haven't bothered with stats for most of the writeup. The new MIC style items should also be compatible. There are interesting times ahead. --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 18:39, 16 August 2007 (MDT)

It has been stated that the PHB will be out May '08 MM June '08 and DMG July '08

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