https://www.dandwiki.com/w/api.php?action=feedcontributions&user=Othtim&feedformat=atomD&D Wiki - User contributions [en]2024-03-29T13:58:13ZUser contributionsMediaWiki 1.35.8https://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Phenomenon_Rejection_(3.5e_Spell)&diff=281464Talk:Phenomenon Rejection (3.5e Spell)2008-09-17T22:41:38Z<p>Othtim: New page: I have a problem with the "1% percent per caster level to remove deity ability magic" or whatever. seems unreasonable. I think it should be more like having to make an opposed check of som...</p>
<hr />
<div>I have a problem with the "1% percent per caster level to remove deity ability magic" or whatever. seems unreasonable. I think it should be more like having to make an opposed check of some sort. Otherwise you're basically saying that a level 20 caster can undo a spell or effect cast by Mystra once every two days? So you're saying that you could undo Mystra infusing a Chosen with her divine essence? That would be a pretty big deal to undo. Or maybe you could undo Bane's death? :S I dunno...I think an opposed check is in order...undoing the death of a deity at the hand of another deity is a big deal, but could be acheived as the spell is worded, am i right?<br />
<br />
Other than that, I like it. Will read more. --[[User:Othtim|Othtim]] 16:41, 17 September 2008 (MDT)</div>Othtimhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Elf,_Age_of_War_(4e_Racial_Trait_Variant)&diff=281451Talk:Elf, Age of War (4e Racial Trait Variant)2008-09-17T22:04:19Z<p>Othtim: </p>
<hr />
<div>Elves suck! --[[User:Othtim|Othtim]] 12:01, 17 September 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:? --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 13:28, 17 September 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:: It's true though, right? --[[User:Othtim|Othtim]] 16:04, 17 September 2008 (MDT)</div>Othtimhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Magic_Gun,_Rifle_(3.5e_Equipment)&diff=281450Talk:Magic Gun, Rifle (3.5e Equipment)2008-09-17T22:03:34Z<p>Othtim: New page: Doesnt make sense. Why would anyone want a magic gun when a regular spell would suffice? anyone that can make a magic gun should be able to make a spell, right? I could see this being used...</p>
<hr />
<div>Doesnt make sense. Why would anyone want a magic gun when a regular spell would suffice? anyone that can make a magic gun should be able to make a spell, right? I could see this being used on perhaps the isle of Lantan (in FR) where everyone uses gunpowder weapons. But not in general. Anyways, what's the point? --[[User:Othtim|Othtim]] 16:03, 17 September 2008 (MDT)</div>Othtimhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ehsteve&diff=281411User talk:Ehsteve2008-09-17T18:26:50Z<p>Othtim: </p>
<hr />
<div>== Welcome to D&D Wiki! == <br />
<br />
;Welcome!<br />
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<br />
: Eh? Steve?</div>Othtimhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Elf_Touch_(3.5e_Spell)&diff=281410Talk:Elf Touch (3.5e Spell)2008-09-17T18:22:48Z<p>Othtim: New page: Elves suck! --~~~~</p>
<hr />
<div>Elves suck! --[[User:Othtim|Othtim]] 12:22, 17 September 2008 (MDT)</div>Othtimhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=User:Othtim/Equipment&diff=281409User:Othtim/Equipment2008-09-17T18:22:36Z<p>Othtim: /* Spells */</p>
<hr />
<div>===Equipment===<br />
* [[Gonnestafe (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Matchcord (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Talc (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Gonnestafe (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Light Crossbow of Acid Arrow (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Madiera Wine (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Wine of Nightshade (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Caduceus (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Sanctus Globus (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Part of the Acacia Tree (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Eye Gems (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[User:Othtim/livingspell| A Treatise On Living Spells]] - a book discussing living spells<br />
<br />
===Alchemical-ish Substances===<br />
* [[Fulminating Gold (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Luminous Water (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Oil of Brick (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Powder of Sympathy (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Powdered Pearl (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Smelling Salts (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
<br />
===Artifacts and Epic Items===<br />
* [[The Emerald Tablet (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[The Book of Thoth (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Seneferu's Golden Lotus (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
<br />
===Spells===<br />
* [[Elf Touch (DnD Spell)]] - Imbues a touched creature with elf resistances<br />
* [[Seige Cannon (DnD Epic Spell)]] - An epic spell that conjures a massive siege cannon<br />
* [[Variants of Future Spell Power (DnD Epic Spell)]] - An epic spell that boosts the power of spells yet-to-be-cast<br />
* [[Jess' Twin Portals (DnD Spell)|Twin Portals]] - create a small portal to grab things a long way away<br />
* [[Jess' Greater Twin Portals (DnD Spell)|Greater Twin Portals]] - bigger and better<br />
<br />
===NPCs===<br />
<br />
* [[Tracy Miller (DnD NPC)]] - a female Heartwarder<br />
* [[Tracy Miller, Lich (DnD NPC)]] - a female Heartwarder Lich<br />
* [[Jess Atmore (DnD NPC)]] - a male Sorcerer focused on interplanar travel<br />
* [[Sam (DnD NPC)]] - a rust monster.<br />
<br />
===Other Misc===<br />
* [[DnD_Epic_Factors]] - A table of user-contributed epic spell factors<br />
* [[Firearm Focus (DnD Optimized Character Build)]] - A page about effective firearm users<br />
* [[Reducing_Absolutes (DnD_Variant_Rule)|Reducing Absolutes]] - variant rules for reducing immunities<br />
* [[UA:Reputation|Unearthed Arcana - Reputation]]<br />
* [[UA:Contacts|Unearthed Arcana - Contacts]]<br />
* [[UA:Honor|Unearthed Arcana - Honor]]<br />
<br />
===Open Game Content equipment from other sources===<br />
<br />
* [[Swords_Into_Plowshares_Book|Swords Into Plowshares book]]<br />
<br />
====SeanKReynolds.com====<br />
* [[Crocodile Mask (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Headband of Sorcerous Knowledge (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Nexus Map (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Wild Magic Student (DnD Feat)]]<br />
* [[Orb of Forgotten Tears (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
<br />
====dnd.druidic.net====<br />
* [[Cannibalize Item (DnD Feat)]]<br />
* [[Misslefruit Bow (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Dominate Animal, Mass (DnD Spell)]]<br />
* [[Wild Magic (DnD Variant Rule)]]<br />
<br />
====EN World (with permission)====<br />
* [[Scorching Spell (DnD Feat)]] - Reveille<br />
* [[Elemental Spellcasting (DnD Feat)]] - Reveille<br />
<br />
<br />
[[User:Othtim|Back]]</div>Othtimhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Elf_Touch_(3.5e_Spell)&diff=281408Elf Touch (3.5e Spell)2008-09-17T18:21:47Z<p>Othtim: creation</p>
<hr />
<div>{{OGL Top}}<br />
{{author<br />
|author_name=Othtim<br />
|date_created=September 17, 2008<br />
|status=Done}}<br />
{{Spell<br />
| name=Elf Touch<br />
| school=[[SRD:Abjuration|Abjuration]]<br />
| lvl=[[SRD:Sorcerer/Wizard Spell List|Sor/Wiz]] 4<br />
| comp=V<br />
| casttime=1 [[SRD:Standard Actions|standard action]]<br />
| range=Touch<br />
| tsea=t <br />
| subj=Creature touched<br />
| dur=1 round/level<br />
| save=[[SRD:Saving Throw|Will]] negates (harmless)<br />
| sr=Yes (harmless)<br />
}}<br />
Touched creature is granted immunity to magic sleep effects and paralysis. Touched creature also gains a +2 [[SRD:Saving Throw|saving throw]] bonus against [[enchantments|enchantment]] spells or effects, [[low-light vision]], and a +2 bonus to [[SRD:Listen Skill|Listen]], [[SRD:Search Skill|Search]], and [[SRD:Spot Skill|Spot]] checks.<br />
<br />
{{SRD Spell Footer}}<br />
[[Category:Sorcerer/Wizard 4]]<br />
[[Category:Abjuration School]]</div>Othtimhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Over_100_Ways_to_Die_(DnD_Other)&diff=281406Over 100 Ways to Die (DnD Other)2008-09-17T18:05:31Z<p>Othtim: </p>
<hr />
<div>I will organize all these...eventually.<br />
<br />
#Killed by a monster<br />
#Drown<br />
#Starve<br />
#Fire<br />
#Lava<br />
#Weather<br />
#Storm<br />
#Hurricane<br />
#Tornado<br />
#Hyperthemia<br />
#Hypothermia<br />
#Acid<br />
#Buried alive<br />
#Falling<br />
#Being Fallen Upon<br />
#Landslide<br />
#Avalanche<br />
#Flash Flood<br />
#Thirst<br />
#Falling in iced over lake<br />
#Lack of air from high altitude<br />
#Suffocation<br />
#Smoke<br />
#Magic<br />
#Traps<br />
#Poison<br />
#Disease<br />
#Execution <br />
#Crucifiction<br />
#Captured and killed (or tortured)<br />
#Bleeding to death<br />
#Subject of curse that kills you<br />
#Killed by a spell backfiring on you<br />
#Quicksand<br />
#Committing suicide<br />
#Caught in a collapsing building/tunnel/dungeon<br />
#Astral cord severed when in Astral Plane<br />
#[[SRD:Flesh to Stone|Flesh to Stone]], followed by destroying the statue.<br />
#Light a target on fire (via spell, torch, ect.) then polymorph them into a cloud of hydrogen, and run<br />
#Impaled on a stake<br />
#Choking/strangulation<br />
#Run over by carriage/horse/vehicle<br />
#Heart Attack<br />
#Elf touch<br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
Back to [[Main Page]] &rarr; [[Dungeons and Dragons]] &rarr; [[DnD Other|Other]]<br />
[[Category:DnD]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Other]]</div>Othtimhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Elf,_Age_of_War_(4e_Racial_Trait_Variant)&diff=281404Talk:Elf, Age of War (4e Racial Trait Variant)2008-09-17T18:01:01Z<p>Othtim: New page: Elves suck! --~~~~</p>
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<div>Elves suck! --[[User:Othtim|Othtim]] 12:01, 17 September 2008 (MDT)</div>Othtimhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Llathrana_(3.5e_Race)&diff=281402Llathrana (3.5e Race)2008-09-17T17:57:30Z<p>Othtim: /* Racial Traits */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{author<br />
|author_name=Risek<br />
|date_created=July 15th, 2008<br />
|status=Complete<br />
}}<br />
{{x0<br />
|la=+0<br />
|ecl=1st<br />
|type=[[SRD:Humanoid Type|Humanoid]] (Llathrana)<br />
|ability_adjust=+2 Str, &minus;2 Int<br />
|size=[[Medium]]<br />
|favored_class=[[Ranger]]<br />
|desc=A lupine race native to the Faltharis Campaign<br />
}}<br />
<br />
=Llathrana=<br />
<br />
==Personality==<br />
<br />
Llathrana embrace death, believing that death is merely a path to new life. A llathrana pack may slaughter another pack to prove a point - suprisingly, being welcomed as heroes among the survivors. To outsiders, llathrana seem to be fatalistic and morbid. They embrace death and decay on levels unheard of among other races, raping and murdering each other just prove their own mortality. Strangely, a llathrana will guard the young of any other llathrana to the death, even if it belongs to its mortal enemy.<br />
<br />
==Physical Description==<br />
<br />
Llathrana are slender quadrupedal humanoids with muscular dog-like hind legs, over-sized canines, vestigial tails, and short bristly hair which covers their body. They move around on thickly calloused hands and feet tipped with thick, blunt claws - excellent for digging, climbing, and wielding weapons. A llathrana may "unfurl" itself, a painful experience which allows them to stand on their hind legs at nearly six feet tall. Most llathrana have dark brown, gray, or black fur. A few individuals have a yellow or white pelt; a llathrana may even have stripes or other color varieties. Llathrana gain dark red faces and manes as they age. Adults typically appear to have bloodstained masks and backs, elders appear to have deep maroon faces. <br />
<br />
A few subspecies of llathrana also exist, with the most notable being a plains-dwelling breed known for stalking and raiding merchant caravans crossing the Illus. Such llathrana tend to be of a lighter build, colored with purple faces.<br />
<br />
A typical llathrana stands around two feet tall at the shoulder (when furled), and weighs about 120 pounds.<br />
<br />
==Relations==<br />
<br />
Throughout history, llathrana have been hunted for sport by nearly every organization of humans. As such, llathrana have a tendecy to return the favor, raiding villages and outposts for the flesh of their enemies. In recent years, rogue llathrana warriors have begun to seek employment from the powerful Sai'quil binders who have proliferated in Dreden, often serving as vessels for [[Norus]] fiends .<br />
<br />
==Alignment==<br />
<br />
Llathrana are generally chaotic, reflecting the chaos in their societies and everyday lives. Llathrana are rarely evil, despite their fatalistic outlook and morbid antics.<br />
<br />
==Lands==<br />
<br />
Llathrana were the original inhabitants of Dreden, before the Sai'quil and their disciples began colonization of the tree-islands that fill the swamp.<br />
<br />
==Religion==<br />
<br />
The llathrana have no patron deities. Typically they worship nature or the elements, meaning that [[druids]] are the primary spellcasters in most tribes.<br />
<br />
==Language==<br />
<br />
Llathrana speak a language of the same name which consists mostly of growls, squeals, howls, and other guttural sounds. Llathrana are also known to utter a unique hunting cry - long and baleful, like that of a loon and wolf. This cry, often heard for miles through the swamp forest, gives nearby humans good cause to be nervous.<br />
<br />
There is no written form of Llathrana. A need for high-level written communication has not developed from the simple llathrana societies in the swamps of Dreden.<br />
<br />
==Names==<br />
<br />
Llathrana tend to choose names that roughly translate into the names of things in nature.<br />
<br />
Examples: Hrekt (Rock), Grestek (Fire), Squoola (a type of pink flower indgenious to the mountains), Seelma (Mud).<br />
<br />
==Racial Traits==<br />
<br />
* +2 [[Strength]], &minus;2 [[Intelligence]]: Llathrana rely more on their wits and survival instinct then rational, logical thought. <br />
* ''[[SRD:Medium|Medium]] Humanoid:'' As Medium creatures, llathrana have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.<br />
* Llathrana [[base land speed]] is 50 feet.<br />
* ''[[Low-Light Vision]]:'' A Llathrana can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. She retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.<br />
* +2 racial bonus on [[Listen]], [[Spot]], and [[Survival]] checks.<br />
* ''Lesser Scent:'' A creature with the lesser scent ability can detect an opponent within 5 feet by sense of smell. If the opponent is upwind, the range increases to 10 feet; if downwind, it drops to 0 feet (the creature can detect downwind creatures only in its own square). Strong scents, such as smoke or rotting garbage, can be detected at twice the ranges noted above (minimum 5 feet). Overpowering scents, such as skunk musk or troglodyte stench, can be detected at triple normal range. Detection of a scent does not reveal the exact location of the source--only its presence somewhere within range. However, a creature using lesser scent can take a standard action to note the direction of the scent. Whenever it comes within 5 feet of the source, the creature can take a move action to pinpoint the source's location. A creature with the [[Track]] feat and the lesser scent ability can follow tracks by smell, just as a creature with the [[scent]] ability can.<br />
* ''[[SRD:Natural Weapon|Natural Weapon]]:'' Bite (1d4). <br />
* ''Unfurl:'' As a move action that provokes attacks of opportunity, a llathrana may unfurl, a joint-popping and form-altering experience. An unfurled llathrana gains the following changes: They gain a +4 bonus [[Strength]], and may use manufactured weapons as normal. However, while unfurled, the llathrana takes a -2 penalty to [[Dexterity]], their speed drops down to 20 feet andthey can't run, and they lose their bite attack (Except when [[Grapple|grappling]]). A llathrana may remain unfurled for a number of rounds equal to their character level (minimum 1 round), after which it reverts to it's quadruped form and is fatigued for 1d4 rounds. If a llathrana re-furls itself before it's time is up it is still fatigued.<br />
* ''Light Sensitivity:'' Llathrana are [[SRD:Dazzled|dazzled]] in bright sunlight or within the radius of a ''[[SRD:Daylight (Spell)|daylight]]'' spell.<br />
* ''Quadruped:'' A llathrana gains a +4 bonus on [[SRD:Ability Check|ability checks]] made to resist being [[SRD:Bull Rush|bull rush]]ed or [[SRD:Trip|trip]]ped when standing on the ground and not unfurled. When not unfurled, a llathrana may make melee attacks with light or one-handed manufactured weapons, albeit at a -5 penalty to attack.<br />
* ''[[Automatic Languages]]:'' Llathrana. ''[[Bonus Languages]]:'' Common, Dreden.<br />
* ''[[Favored Class]]:'' [[Ranger]]<br />
<br />
==Vital Statistics==<br />
<br />
{| class="d20" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"<br />
|+ Table: Llathrana Random Starting Ages<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
! Adulthood || Simple || Moderate || Complex<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| 12 years || +1d8 || +2d8 || +3d8<br />
|}<br />
<br />
{| class="d20" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"<br />
|+ Table: Llathrana Aging Effects<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
! Middle Age<sup>1</sup> || Old<sup>2</sup> || Venerable<sup>3</sup> || Maximum Age<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| 30 years || 55 years || 70 years || +2d10 years<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| colspan="5" class="foot" |<br />
# At middle age, &minus;1 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha.<br />
# At old age, &minus;2 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha.<br />
# At venerable age, &minus;3 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
{| cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" class="d20"<br />
|-<br />
|+ Table: <!-- insert race name --> Random Height and Weight<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
! style="text-align: left;" | Gender || Base Height || Height Modifier || Base Weight || Weight Modifier<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| style="text-align: left;" | Male || 6' 0" || +2d4 || 110 lbs. || &times; (2d6) lb.<br />
|- class="even" style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| style="text-align: left;" | Female || 6' 3" || +2d4 || 115 lb. || &times; (2d6) lb.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
Back to [[Main Page]] &rarr; [[Dungeons and Dragons]] &rarr; [[DnD Races|Races]]<br />
[[Category:DnD]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Race]]<br />
[[Category:Humanoid Type]]<br />
[[Category:LA0]]<br />
[[Category:ECL1]]<br />
[[Category:Faltharis (DnD Campaign Setting)]]</div>Othtimhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Llathrana_(3.5e_Race)&diff=281401Llathrana (3.5e Race)2008-09-17T17:57:20Z<p>Othtim: /* Racial Traits */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{author<br />
|author_name=Risek<br />
|date_created=July 15th, 2008<br />
|status=Complete<br />
}}<br />
{{x0<br />
|la=+0<br />
|ecl=1st<br />
|type=[[SRD:Humanoid Type|Humanoid]] (Llathrana)<br />
|ability_adjust=+2 Str, &minus;2 Int<br />
|size=[[Medium]]<br />
|favored_class=[[Ranger]]<br />
|desc=A lupine race native to the Faltharis Campaign<br />
}}<br />
<br />
=Llathrana=<br />
<br />
==Personality==<br />
<br />
Llathrana embrace death, believing that death is merely a path to new life. A llathrana pack may slaughter another pack to prove a point - suprisingly, being welcomed as heroes among the survivors. To outsiders, llathrana seem to be fatalistic and morbid. They embrace death and decay on levels unheard of among other races, raping and murdering each other just prove their own mortality. Strangely, a llathrana will guard the young of any other llathrana to the death, even if it belongs to its mortal enemy.<br />
<br />
==Physical Description==<br />
<br />
Llathrana are slender quadrupedal humanoids with muscular dog-like hind legs, over-sized canines, vestigial tails, and short bristly hair which covers their body. They move around on thickly calloused hands and feet tipped with thick, blunt claws - excellent for digging, climbing, and wielding weapons. A llathrana may "unfurl" itself, a painful experience which allows them to stand on their hind legs at nearly six feet tall. Most llathrana have dark brown, gray, or black fur. A few individuals have a yellow or white pelt; a llathrana may even have stripes or other color varieties. Llathrana gain dark red faces and manes as they age. Adults typically appear to have bloodstained masks and backs, elders appear to have deep maroon faces. <br />
<br />
A few subspecies of llathrana also exist, with the most notable being a plains-dwelling breed known for stalking and raiding merchant caravans crossing the Illus. Such llathrana tend to be of a lighter build, colored with purple faces.<br />
<br />
A typical llathrana stands around two feet tall at the shoulder (when furled), and weighs about 120 pounds.<br />
<br />
==Relations==<br />
<br />
Throughout history, llathrana have been hunted for sport by nearly every organization of humans. As such, llathrana have a tendecy to return the favor, raiding villages and outposts for the flesh of their enemies. In recent years, rogue llathrana warriors have begun to seek employment from the powerful Sai'quil binders who have proliferated in Dreden, often serving as vessels for [[Norus]] fiends .<br />
<br />
==Alignment==<br />
<br />
Llathrana are generally chaotic, reflecting the chaos in their societies and everyday lives. Llathrana are rarely evil, despite their fatalistic outlook and morbid antics.<br />
<br />
==Lands==<br />
<br />
Llathrana were the original inhabitants of Dreden, before the Sai'quil and their disciples began colonization of the tree-islands that fill the swamp.<br />
<br />
==Religion==<br />
<br />
The llathrana have no patron deities. Typically they worship nature or the elements, meaning that [[druids]] are the primary spellcasters in most tribes.<br />
<br />
==Language==<br />
<br />
Llathrana speak a language of the same name which consists mostly of growls, squeals, howls, and other guttural sounds. Llathrana are also known to utter a unique hunting cry - long and baleful, like that of a loon and wolf. This cry, often heard for miles through the swamp forest, gives nearby humans good cause to be nervous.<br />
<br />
There is no written form of Llathrana. A need for high-level written communication has not developed from the simple llathrana societies in the swamps of Dreden.<br />
<br />
==Names==<br />
<br />
Llathrana tend to choose names that roughly translate into the names of things in nature.<br />
<br />
Examples: Hrekt (Rock), Grestek (Fire), Squoola (a type of pink flower indgenious to the mountains), Seelma (Mud).<br />
<br />
==Racial Traits==<br />
<br />
* +2 [[Strength]], &minus;2 [[Intelligence]]: Llathrana rely more on their wits and survival instinct then rational, logical thought. <br />
* ''[[SRD:Medium|Medium]] Humanoid:'' As Medium creatures, llathrana have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.<br />
* Llathrana [[base land speed]] is 50 feet.<br />
* ''[[Low-Light Vision]]:'' A Llathrana can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. She retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.<br />
* +2 racial bonus on [[Listen]], [[Spot]], and [[Survival]] checks.<br />
* ''Lesser Scent:'' A creature with the lesser scent ability can detect an opponent within 5 feet by sense of smell. If the opponent is upwind, the range increases to 10 feet; if downwind, it drops to 0 feet (the creature can detect downwind creatures only in its own square). Strong scents, such as smoke or rotting garbage, can be detected at twice the ranges noted above (minimum 5 feet). Overpowering scents, such as skunk musk or troglodyte stench, can be detected at triple normal range. Detection of a scent does not reveal the exact location of the source--only its presence somewhere within range. However, a creature using lesser scent can take a standard action to note the direction of the scent. Whenever it comes within 5 feet of the source, the creature can take a move action to pinpoint the source's location. A creature with the [[Track]] feat and the lesser scent ability can follow tracks by smell, just as a creature with the [[scent]] ability can.<br />
* ''[[SRD:Natural Weapon|Natural Weapon]]:'' Bite (1d4). <br />
* ''Unfurl:'' As a move action that provokes attacks of opportunity, a llathrana may unfurl, a joint-popping and form-altering experience. An unfurled llathrana gains the following changes: They gain a +4 bonus [[Strength]], and may use manufactured weapons as normal. However, while unfurled, the llathrana takes a -2 penalty to [[Dexterity]], their speed drops down to 20 feet andthey can't run, and they lose their bite attack (Except when [[Grapple|grappling]]). A llathrana may remain unfurled for a number of rounds equal to their character level (minimum 1 round), after which it reverts to it's quadruped form and is fatigued for 1d4 rounds. If a llathrana re-furls itself before it's time is up it is still fatigued.<br />
* ''Light Sensitivity:'' Llathrana are [[SRD:Dazzled|dazzled]] in bright sunlight or within the radius of a ''[[SRD:Daylight (Spell)|daylight]]'' spell.<br />
* Quadruped: A llathrana gains a +4 bonus on [[SRD:Ability Check|ability checks]] made to resist being [[SRD:Bull Rush|bull rush]]ed or [[SRD:Trip|trip]]ped when standing on the ground and not unfurled. When not unfurled, a llathrana may make melee attacks with light or one-handed manufactured weapons, albeit at a -5 penalty to attack.<br />
* ''[[Automatic Languages]]:'' Llathrana. ''[[Bonus Languages]]:'' Common, Dreden.<br />
* ''[[Favored Class]]:'' [[Ranger]]<br />
<br />
==Vital Statistics==<br />
<br />
{| class="d20" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"<br />
|+ Table: Llathrana Random Starting Ages<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
! Adulthood || Simple || Moderate || Complex<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| 12 years || +1d8 || +2d8 || +3d8<br />
|}<br />
<br />
{| class="d20" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"<br />
|+ Table: Llathrana Aging Effects<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
! Middle Age<sup>1</sup> || Old<sup>2</sup> || Venerable<sup>3</sup> || Maximum Age<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| 30 years || 55 years || 70 years || +2d10 years<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| colspan="5" class="foot" |<br />
# At middle age, &minus;1 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha.<br />
# At old age, &minus;2 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha.<br />
# At venerable age, &minus;3 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
{| cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" class="d20"<br />
|-<br />
|+ Table: <!-- insert race name --> Random Height and Weight<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
! style="text-align: left;" | Gender || Base Height || Height Modifier || Base Weight || Weight Modifier<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| style="text-align: left;" | Male || 6' 0" || +2d4 || 110 lbs. || &times; (2d6) lb.<br />
|- class="even" style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| style="text-align: left;" | Female || 6' 3" || +2d4 || 115 lb. || &times; (2d6) lb.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
Back to [[Main Page]] &rarr; [[Dungeons and Dragons]] &rarr; [[DnD Races|Races]]<br />
[[Category:DnD]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Race]]<br />
[[Category:Humanoid Type]]<br />
[[Category:LA0]]<br />
[[Category:ECL1]]<br />
[[Category:Faltharis (DnD Campaign Setting)]]</div>Othtimhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Llathrana_(3.5e_Race)&diff=281400Talk:Llathrana (3.5e Race)2008-09-17T17:56:58Z<p>Othtim: </p>
<hr />
<div>== Input please! ==<br />
<br />
What do you guys think?-[[User:Risek|Risek]] 09:07, 21 July 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
: Pretty good. I edited some stuff. Hope you like! :D --[[User:Othtim|Othtim]] 11:56, 17 September 2008 (MDT)</div>Othtimhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Llathrana_(3.5e_Race)&diff=281399Llathrana (3.5e Race)2008-09-17T17:56:33Z<p>Othtim: /* Racial Traits */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{author<br />
|author_name=Risek<br />
|date_created=July 15th, 2008<br />
|status=Complete<br />
}}<br />
{{x0<br />
|la=+0<br />
|ecl=1st<br />
|type=[[SRD:Humanoid Type|Humanoid]] (Llathrana)<br />
|ability_adjust=+2 Str, &minus;2 Int<br />
|size=[[Medium]]<br />
|favored_class=[[Ranger]]<br />
|desc=A lupine race native to the Faltharis Campaign<br />
}}<br />
<br />
=Llathrana=<br />
<br />
==Personality==<br />
<br />
Llathrana embrace death, believing that death is merely a path to new life. A llathrana pack may slaughter another pack to prove a point - suprisingly, being welcomed as heroes among the survivors. To outsiders, llathrana seem to be fatalistic and morbid. They embrace death and decay on levels unheard of among other races, raping and murdering each other just prove their own mortality. Strangely, a llathrana will guard the young of any other llathrana to the death, even if it belongs to its mortal enemy.<br />
<br />
==Physical Description==<br />
<br />
Llathrana are slender quadrupedal humanoids with muscular dog-like hind legs, over-sized canines, vestigial tails, and short bristly hair which covers their body. They move around on thickly calloused hands and feet tipped with thick, blunt claws - excellent for digging, climbing, and wielding weapons. A llathrana may "unfurl" itself, a painful experience which allows them to stand on their hind legs at nearly six feet tall. Most llathrana have dark brown, gray, or black fur. A few individuals have a yellow or white pelt; a llathrana may even have stripes or other color varieties. Llathrana gain dark red faces and manes as they age. Adults typically appear to have bloodstained masks and backs, elders appear to have deep maroon faces. <br />
<br />
A few subspecies of llathrana also exist, with the most notable being a plains-dwelling breed known for stalking and raiding merchant caravans crossing the Illus. Such llathrana tend to be of a lighter build, colored with purple faces.<br />
<br />
A typical llathrana stands around two feet tall at the shoulder (when furled), and weighs about 120 pounds.<br />
<br />
==Relations==<br />
<br />
Throughout history, llathrana have been hunted for sport by nearly every organization of humans. As such, llathrana have a tendecy to return the favor, raiding villages and outposts for the flesh of their enemies. In recent years, rogue llathrana warriors have begun to seek employment from the powerful Sai'quil binders who have proliferated in Dreden, often serving as vessels for [[Norus]] fiends .<br />
<br />
==Alignment==<br />
<br />
Llathrana are generally chaotic, reflecting the chaos in their societies and everyday lives. Llathrana are rarely evil, despite their fatalistic outlook and morbid antics.<br />
<br />
==Lands==<br />
<br />
Llathrana were the original inhabitants of Dreden, before the Sai'quil and their disciples began colonization of the tree-islands that fill the swamp.<br />
<br />
==Religion==<br />
<br />
The llathrana have no patron deities. Typically they worship nature or the elements, meaning that [[druids]] are the primary spellcasters in most tribes.<br />
<br />
==Language==<br />
<br />
Llathrana speak a language of the same name which consists mostly of growls, squeals, howls, and other guttural sounds. Llathrana are also known to utter a unique hunting cry - long and baleful, like that of a loon and wolf. This cry, often heard for miles through the swamp forest, gives nearby humans good cause to be nervous.<br />
<br />
There is no written form of Llathrana. A need for high-level written communication has not developed from the simple llathrana societies in the swamps of Dreden.<br />
<br />
==Names==<br />
<br />
Llathrana tend to choose names that roughly translate into the names of things in nature.<br />
<br />
Examples: Hrekt (Rock), Grestek (Fire), Squoola (a type of pink flower indgenious to the mountains), Seelma (Mud).<br />
<br />
==Racial Traits==<br />
<br />
* +2 [[Strength]], &minus;2 [[Intelligence]]: Llathrana rely more on their wits and survival instinct then rational, logical thought. <br />
* ''[[SRD:Medium|Medium]]:'' As Medium creatures, llathrana have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.<br />
* Llathrana [[base land speed]] is 50 feet.<br />
* ''[[Low-Light Vision]]:'' A Llathrana can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. She retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.<br />
* +2 racial bonus on [[Listen]], [[Spot]], and [[Survival]] checks.<br />
* ''Lesser Scent:'' A creature with the lesser scent ability can detect an opponent within 5 feet by sense of smell. If the opponent is upwind, the range increases to 10 feet; if downwind, it drops to 0 feet (the creature can detect downwind creatures only in its own square). Strong scents, such as smoke or rotting garbage, can be detected at twice the ranges noted above (minimum 5 feet). Overpowering scents, such as skunk musk or troglodyte stench, can be detected at triple normal range. Detection of a scent does not reveal the exact location of the source--only its presence somewhere within range. However, a creature using lesser scent can take a standard action to note the direction of the scent. Whenever it comes within 5 feet of the source, the creature can take a move action to pinpoint the source's location. A creature with the [[Track]] feat and the lesser scent ability can follow tracks by smell, just as a creature with the [[scent]] ability can.<br />
* ''[[SRD:Natural Weapon|Natural Weapon]]:'' Bite (1d4). <br />
* ''Unfurl:'' As a move action that provokes attacks of opportunity, a llathrana may unfurl, a joint-popping and form-altering experience. An unfurled llathrana gains the following changes: They gain a +4 bonus [[Strength]], and may use manufactured weapons as normal. However, while unfurled, the llathrana takes a -2 penalty to [[Dexterity]], their speed drops down to 20 feet andthey can't run, and they lose their bite attack (Except when [[Grapple|grappling]]). A llathrana may remain unfurled for a number of rounds equal to their character level (minimum 1 round), after which it reverts to it's quadruped form and is fatigued for 1d4 rounds. If a llathrana re-furls itself before it's time is up it is still fatigued.<br />
* ''Light Sensitivity:'' Llathrana are [[SRD:Dazzled|dazzled]] in bright sunlight or within the radius of a ''[[SRD:Daylight (Spell)|daylight]]'' spell.<br />
* Quadruped: A llathrana gains a +4 bonus on [[SRD:Ability Check|ability checks]] made to resist being [[SRD:Bull Rush|bull rush]]ed or [[SRD:Trip|trip]]ped when standing on the ground and not unfurled. When not unfurled, a llathrana may make melee attacks with light or one-handed manufactured weapons, albeit at a -5 penalty to attack.<br />
* ''[[Automatic Languages]]:'' Llathrana. ''[[Bonus Languages]]:'' Common, Dreden.<br />
* ''[[Favored Class]]:'' [[Ranger]]<br />
<br />
==Vital Statistics==<br />
<br />
{| class="d20" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"<br />
|+ Table: Llathrana Random Starting Ages<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
! Adulthood || Simple || Moderate || Complex<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| 12 years || +1d8 || +2d8 || +3d8<br />
|}<br />
<br />
{| class="d20" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"<br />
|+ Table: Llathrana Aging Effects<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
! Middle Age<sup>1</sup> || Old<sup>2</sup> || Venerable<sup>3</sup> || Maximum Age<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| 30 years || 55 years || 70 years || +2d10 years<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| colspan="5" class="foot" |<br />
# At middle age, &minus;1 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha.<br />
# At old age, &minus;2 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha.<br />
# At venerable age, &minus;3 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
{| cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" class="d20"<br />
|-<br />
|+ Table: <!-- insert race name --> Random Height and Weight<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
! style="text-align: left;" | Gender || Base Height || Height Modifier || Base Weight || Weight Modifier<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| style="text-align: left;" | Male || 6' 0" || +2d4 || 110 lbs. || &times; (2d6) lb.<br />
|- class="even" style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| style="text-align: left;" | Female || 6' 3" || +2d4 || 115 lb. || &times; (2d6) lb.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
Back to [[Main Page]] &rarr; [[Dungeons and Dragons]] &rarr; [[DnD Races|Races]]<br />
[[Category:DnD]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Race]]<br />
[[Category:Humanoid Type]]<br />
[[Category:LA0]]<br />
[[Category:ECL1]]<br />
[[Category:Faltharis (DnD Campaign Setting)]]</div>Othtimhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Llathrana_(3.5e_Race)&diff=281398Llathrana (3.5e Race)2008-09-17T17:56:22Z<p>Othtim: /* Racial Traits */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{author<br />
|author_name=Risek<br />
|date_created=July 15th, 2008<br />
|status=Complete<br />
}}<br />
{{x0<br />
|la=+0<br />
|ecl=1st<br />
|type=[[SRD:Humanoid Type|Humanoid]] (Llathrana)<br />
|ability_adjust=+2 Str, &minus;2 Int<br />
|size=[[Medium]]<br />
|favored_class=[[Ranger]]<br />
|desc=A lupine race native to the Faltharis Campaign<br />
}}<br />
<br />
=Llathrana=<br />
<br />
==Personality==<br />
<br />
Llathrana embrace death, believing that death is merely a path to new life. A llathrana pack may slaughter another pack to prove a point - suprisingly, being welcomed as heroes among the survivors. To outsiders, llathrana seem to be fatalistic and morbid. They embrace death and decay on levels unheard of among other races, raping and murdering each other just prove their own mortality. Strangely, a llathrana will guard the young of any other llathrana to the death, even if it belongs to its mortal enemy.<br />
<br />
==Physical Description==<br />
<br />
Llathrana are slender quadrupedal humanoids with muscular dog-like hind legs, over-sized canines, vestigial tails, and short bristly hair which covers their body. They move around on thickly calloused hands and feet tipped with thick, blunt claws - excellent for digging, climbing, and wielding weapons. A llathrana may "unfurl" itself, a painful experience which allows them to stand on their hind legs at nearly six feet tall. Most llathrana have dark brown, gray, or black fur. A few individuals have a yellow or white pelt; a llathrana may even have stripes or other color varieties. Llathrana gain dark red faces and manes as they age. Adults typically appear to have bloodstained masks and backs, elders appear to have deep maroon faces. <br />
<br />
A few subspecies of llathrana also exist, with the most notable being a plains-dwelling breed known for stalking and raiding merchant caravans crossing the Illus. Such llathrana tend to be of a lighter build, colored with purple faces.<br />
<br />
A typical llathrana stands around two feet tall at the shoulder (when furled), and weighs about 120 pounds.<br />
<br />
==Relations==<br />
<br />
Throughout history, llathrana have been hunted for sport by nearly every organization of humans. As such, llathrana have a tendecy to return the favor, raiding villages and outposts for the flesh of their enemies. In recent years, rogue llathrana warriors have begun to seek employment from the powerful Sai'quil binders who have proliferated in Dreden, often serving as vessels for [[Norus]] fiends .<br />
<br />
==Alignment==<br />
<br />
Llathrana are generally chaotic, reflecting the chaos in their societies and everyday lives. Llathrana are rarely evil, despite their fatalistic outlook and morbid antics.<br />
<br />
==Lands==<br />
<br />
Llathrana were the original inhabitants of Dreden, before the Sai'quil and their disciples began colonization of the tree-islands that fill the swamp.<br />
<br />
==Religion==<br />
<br />
The llathrana have no patron deities. Typically they worship nature or the elements, meaning that [[druids]] are the primary spellcasters in most tribes.<br />
<br />
==Language==<br />
<br />
Llathrana speak a language of the same name which consists mostly of growls, squeals, howls, and other guttural sounds. Llathrana are also known to utter a unique hunting cry - long and baleful, like that of a loon and wolf. This cry, often heard for miles through the swamp forest, gives nearby humans good cause to be nervous.<br />
<br />
There is no written form of Llathrana. A need for high-level written communication has not developed from the simple llathrana societies in the swamps of Dreden.<br />
<br />
==Names==<br />
<br />
Llathrana tend to choose names that roughly translate into the names of things in nature.<br />
<br />
Examples: Hrekt (Rock), Grestek (Fire), Squoola (a type of pink flower indgenious to the mountains), Seelma (Mud).<br />
<br />
==Racial Traits==<br />
<br />
* +2 [[Strength]], &minus;2 [[Intelligence]]: Llathrana rely more on their wits and survival instinct then rational, logical thought. <br />
* ''[[SRD:Medium|Medium]]:'' As Medium creatures, llathrana have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.<br />
* Llathrana [[base land speed]] is 50 feet.<br />
* [[Low-Light Vision]]: A Llathrana can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. She retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.<br />
* +2 racial bonus on [[Listen]], [[Spot]], and [[Survival]] checks.<br />
* ''Lesser Scent:'' A creature with the lesser scent ability can detect an opponent within 5 feet by sense of smell. If the opponent is upwind, the range increases to 10 feet; if downwind, it drops to 0 feet (the creature can detect downwind creatures only in its own square). Strong scents, such as smoke or rotting garbage, can be detected at twice the ranges noted above (minimum 5 feet). Overpowering scents, such as skunk musk or troglodyte stench, can be detected at triple normal range. Detection of a scent does not reveal the exact location of the source--only its presence somewhere within range. However, a creature using lesser scent can take a standard action to note the direction of the scent. Whenever it comes within 5 feet of the source, the creature can take a move action to pinpoint the source's location. A creature with the [[Track]] feat and the lesser scent ability can follow tracks by smell, just as a creature with the [[scent]] ability can.<br />
* ''[[SRD:Natural Weapon|Natural Weapon]]:'' Bite (1d4). <br />
* ''Unfurl:'' As a move action that provokes attacks of opportunity, a llathrana may unfurl, a joint-popping and form-altering experience. An unfurled llathrana gains the following changes: They gain a +4 bonus [[Strength]], and may use manufactured weapons as normal. However, while unfurled, the llathrana takes a -2 penalty to [[Dexterity]], their speed drops down to 20 feet andthey can't run, and they lose their bite attack (Except when [[Grapple|grappling]]). A llathrana may remain unfurled for a number of rounds equal to their character level (minimum 1 round), after which it reverts to it's quadruped form and is fatigued for 1d4 rounds. If a llathrana re-furls itself before it's time is up it is still fatigued.<br />
* ''Light Sensitivity:'' Llathrana are [[SRD:Dazzled|dazzled]] in bright sunlight or within the radius of a ''[[SRD:Daylight (Spell)|daylight]]'' spell.<br />
* Quadruped: A llathrana gains a +4 bonus on [[SRD:Ability Check|ability checks]] made to resist being [[SRD:Bull Rush|bull rush]]ed or [[SRD:Trip|trip]]ped when standing on the ground and not unfurled. When not unfurled, a llathrana may make melee attacks with light or one-handed manufactured weapons, albeit at a -5 penalty to attack.<br />
* ''[[Automatic Languages]]:'' Llathrana. ''[[Bonus Languages]]:'' Common, Dreden.<br />
* ''[[Favored Class]]:'' [[Ranger]]<br />
<br />
==Vital Statistics==<br />
<br />
{| class="d20" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"<br />
|+ Table: Llathrana Random Starting Ages<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
! Adulthood || Simple || Moderate || Complex<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| 12 years || +1d8 || +2d8 || +3d8<br />
|}<br />
<br />
{| class="d20" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"<br />
|+ Table: Llathrana Aging Effects<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
! Middle Age<sup>1</sup> || Old<sup>2</sup> || Venerable<sup>3</sup> || Maximum Age<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| 30 years || 55 years || 70 years || +2d10 years<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| colspan="5" class="foot" |<br />
# At middle age, &minus;1 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha.<br />
# At old age, &minus;2 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha.<br />
# At venerable age, &minus;3 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
{| cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" class="d20"<br />
|-<br />
|+ Table: <!-- insert race name --> Random Height and Weight<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
! style="text-align: left;" | Gender || Base Height || Height Modifier || Base Weight || Weight Modifier<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| style="text-align: left;" | Male || 6' 0" || +2d4 || 110 lbs. || &times; (2d6) lb.<br />
|- class="even" style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| style="text-align: left;" | Female || 6' 3" || +2d4 || 115 lb. || &times; (2d6) lb.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
Back to [[Main Page]] &rarr; [[Dungeons and Dragons]] &rarr; [[DnD Races|Races]]<br />
[[Category:DnD]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Race]]<br />
[[Category:Humanoid Type]]<br />
[[Category:LA0]]<br />
[[Category:ECL1]]<br />
[[Category:Faltharis (DnD Campaign Setting)]]</div>Othtimhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Llathrana_(3.5e_Race)&diff=281392Llathrana (3.5e Race)2008-09-17T17:39:29Z<p>Othtim: /* Language */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{author<br />
|author_name=Risek<br />
|date_created=July 15th, 2008<br />
|status=Complete<br />
}}<br />
{{x0<br />
|la=+0<br />
|ecl=1st<br />
|type=[[SRD:Humanoid Type|Humanoid]] (Llathrana)<br />
|ability_adjust=+2 Str, &minus;2 Int<br />
|size=[[Medium]]<br />
|favored_class=[[Ranger]]<br />
|desc=A lupine race native to the Faltharis Campaign<br />
}}<br />
<br />
=Llathrana=<br />
<br />
==Personality==<br />
<br />
Llathrana embrace death, believing that death is merely a path to new life. A llathrana pack may slaughter another pack to prove a point - suprisingly, being welcomed as heroes among the survivors. To outsiders, llathrana seem to be fatalistic and morbid. They embrace death and decay on levels unheard of among other races, raping and murdering each other just prove their own mortality. Strangely, a llathrana will guard the young of any other llathrana to the death, even if it belongs to its mortal enemy.<br />
<br />
==Physical Description==<br />
<br />
Llathrana are slender quadrupedal humanoids with muscular dog-like hind legs, over-sized canines, vestigial tails, and short bristly hair which covers their body. They move around on thickly calloused hands and feet tipped with thick, blunt claws - excellent for digging, climbing, and wielding weapons. A llathrana may "unfurl" itself, a painful experience which allows them to stand on their hind legs at nearly six feet tall. Most llathrana have dark brown, gray, or black fur. A few individuals have a yellow or white pelt; a llathrana may even have stripes or other color varieties. Llathrana gain dark red faces and manes as they age. Adults typically appear to have bloodstained masks and backs, elders appear to have deep maroon faces. <br />
<br />
A few subspecies of llathrana also exist, with the most notable being a plains-dwelling breed known for stalking and raiding merchant caravans crossing the Illus. Such llathrana tend to be of a lighter build, colored with purple faces.<br />
<br />
A typical llathrana stands around two feet tall at the shoulder (when furled), and weighs about 120 pounds.<br />
<br />
==Relations==<br />
<br />
Throughout history, llathrana have been hunted for sport by nearly every organization of humans. As such, llathrana have a tendecy to return the favor, raiding villages and outposts for the flesh of their enemies. In recent years, rogue llathrana warriors have begun to seek employment from the powerful Sai'quil binders who have proliferated in Dreden, often serving as vessels for [[Norus]] fiends .<br />
<br />
==Alignment==<br />
<br />
Llathrana are generally chaotic, reflecting the chaos in their societies and everyday lives. Llathrana are rarely evil, despite their fatalistic outlook and morbid antics.<br />
<br />
==Lands==<br />
<br />
Llathrana were the original inhabitants of Dreden, before the Sai'quil and their disciples began colonization of the tree-islands that fill the swamp.<br />
<br />
==Religion==<br />
<br />
The llathrana have no patron deities. Typically they worship nature or the elements, meaning that [[druids]] are the primary spellcasters in most tribes.<br />
<br />
==Language==<br />
<br />
Llathrana speak a language of the same name which consists mostly of growls, squeals, howls, and other guttural sounds. Llathrana are also known to utter a unique hunting cry - long and baleful, like that of a loon and wolf. This cry, often heard for miles through the swamp forest, gives nearby humans good cause to be nervous.<br />
<br />
There is no written form of Llathrana. A need for high-level written communication has not developed from the simple llathrana societies in the swamps of Dreden.<br />
<br />
==Names==<br />
<br />
Llathrana tend to choose names that roughly translate into the names of things in nature.<br />
<br />
Examples: Hrekt (Rock), Grestek (Fire), Squoola (a type of pink flower indgenious to the mountains), Seelma (Mud).<br />
<br />
==Racial Traits==<br />
<br />
* +2 [[Strength]], &minus;2 [[Intelligence]]: While extremely strong, llathrana rely more on their wits then brains. <br />
* [[Humanoid]]<br />
* Medium: As Medium creatures, llathrana have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.<br />
* Llathrana [[base land speed]] is 50 feet.<br />
* [[Low-Light Vision]]: A Llathrana can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. She retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions<br />
* +2 racial bonus on [[Listen]], [[Spot]], and [[Survival]] checks.<br />
* Lesser Scent: A creature with the lesser scent ability can detect an opponent within 5 feet by sense of smell. If the opponent is upwind, the range increases to 10 feet; if downwind, it drops to 0 feet (the creature can detect downwind creatures only in its own square). Strong scents, such as smoke or rotting garbage, can be detected at twice the ranges noted above (minimum 5 feet). Overpowering scents, such as skunk musk or troglodyte stench, can be detected at triple normal range. Detection of a scent does not reveal the exact location of the source--only its presence somewhere within range. However, a creature using lesser scent can take a standard action to note the direction of the scent. Whenever it comes within 5 feet of the source, the creature can take a move action to pinpoint the source's location. A creature with the [[Track]] feat and the lesser scent ability can follow tracks by smell, just as a creature with the [[scent]] ability can.<br />
* [[Natural Weapon]]: Bite (1d4). <br />
* Unfurl: As a move action that provokes attacks of opportunity, a llathrana may unfurl, a joint-popping and form-altering experience. An unfurled llathrana gains the following changes: They gain a +4 bonus [[Strength]], and may use manufactured weapons as normal. However, while unfurled, the llathrana takes a -2 penalty to [[Dexterity]], their speed drops down to 20 feet andthey can't run, and they lose their bite attack (Except when [[Grapple|grappling]]). A llathrana may remain unfurled for a number of rounds equal to their character level (Minimum 1 round), after which it reverts to it's quadruped form and is fatigued for 1d4 rounds. If a llathrana re-furls itself before it's time is up it is still fatigued.<br />
* Light Sensitivity: Llathrana are [[dazzled]] in bright sunlight or within the radius of a [[daylight]] spell.<br />
* Quadruped: A llathrana gains a +4 bonus on ability checks made to resist being [[bull rushed]] or [[tripped]] when standing on the ground and not unfurled (but not when unfurled, climbing, flying, riding, or otherwise not standing firmly on the ground). When not unfurled, a llathrana may make melee attacks with light or one-handed manufactured weapons, albeit at a -5 penalty to attack.<br />
* [[Automatic Languages]]: Llathrana. [[Bonus Languages]]: Common, Dreden.<br />
* [[Favored Class]]: [[Ranger]]<br />
<br />
==Vital Statistics==<br />
<br />
{| class="d20" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"<br />
|+ Table: Llathrana Random Starting Ages<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
! Adulthood || Simple || Moderate || Complex<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| 12 years || +1d8 || +2d8 || +3d8<br />
|}<br />
<br />
{| class="d20" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"<br />
|+ Table: Llathrana Aging Effects<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
! Middle Age<sup>1</sup> || Old<sup>2</sup> || Venerable<sup>3</sup> || Maximum Age<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| 30 years || 55 years || 70 years || +2d10 years<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| colspan="5" class="foot" |<br />
# At middle age, &minus;1 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha.<br />
# At old age, &minus;2 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha.<br />
# At venerable age, &minus;3 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
{| cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" class="d20"<br />
|-<br />
|+ Table: <!-- insert race name --> Random Height and Weight<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
! style="text-align: left;" | Gender || Base Height || Height Modifier || Base Weight || Weight Modifier<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| style="text-align: left;" | Male || 6' 0" || +2d4 || 110 lbs. || &times; (2d6) lb.<br />
|- class="even" style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| style="text-align: left;" | Female || 6' 3" || +2d4 || 115 lb. || &times; (2d6) lb.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
Back to [[Main Page]] &rarr; [[Dungeons and Dragons]] &rarr; [[DnD Races|Races]]<br />
[[Category:DnD]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Race]]<br />
[[Category:Humanoid Type]]<br />
[[Category:LA0]]<br />
[[Category:ECL1]]<br />
[[Category:Faltharis (DnD Campaign Setting)]]</div>Othtimhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Llathrana_(3.5e_Race)&diff=281391Llathrana (3.5e Race)2008-09-17T17:38:41Z<p>Othtim: /* Language */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{author<br />
|author_name=Risek<br />
|date_created=July 15th, 2008<br />
|status=Complete<br />
}}<br />
{{x0<br />
|la=+0<br />
|ecl=1st<br />
|type=[[SRD:Humanoid Type|Humanoid]] (Llathrana)<br />
|ability_adjust=+2 Str, &minus;2 Int<br />
|size=[[Medium]]<br />
|favored_class=[[Ranger]]<br />
|desc=A lupine race native to the Faltharis Campaign<br />
}}<br />
<br />
=Llathrana=<br />
<br />
==Personality==<br />
<br />
Llathrana embrace death, believing that death is merely a path to new life. A llathrana pack may slaughter another pack to prove a point - suprisingly, being welcomed as heroes among the survivors. To outsiders, llathrana seem to be fatalistic and morbid. They embrace death and decay on levels unheard of among other races, raping and murdering each other just prove their own mortality. Strangely, a llathrana will guard the young of any other llathrana to the death, even if it belongs to its mortal enemy.<br />
<br />
==Physical Description==<br />
<br />
Llathrana are slender quadrupedal humanoids with muscular dog-like hind legs, over-sized canines, vestigial tails, and short bristly hair which covers their body. They move around on thickly calloused hands and feet tipped with thick, blunt claws - excellent for digging, climbing, and wielding weapons. A llathrana may "unfurl" itself, a painful experience which allows them to stand on their hind legs at nearly six feet tall. Most llathrana have dark brown, gray, or black fur. A few individuals have a yellow or white pelt; a llathrana may even have stripes or other color varieties. Llathrana gain dark red faces and manes as they age. Adults typically appear to have bloodstained masks and backs, elders appear to have deep maroon faces. <br />
<br />
A few subspecies of llathrana also exist, with the most notable being a plains-dwelling breed known for stalking and raiding merchant caravans crossing the Illus. Such llathrana tend to be of a lighter build, colored with purple faces.<br />
<br />
A typical llathrana stands around two feet tall at the shoulder (when furled), and weighs about 120 pounds.<br />
<br />
==Relations==<br />
<br />
Throughout history, llathrana have been hunted for sport by nearly every organization of humans. As such, llathrana have a tendecy to return the favor, raiding villages and outposts for the flesh of their enemies. In recent years, rogue llathrana warriors have begun to seek employment from the powerful Sai'quil binders who have proliferated in Dreden, often serving as vessels for [[Norus]] fiends .<br />
<br />
==Alignment==<br />
<br />
Llathrana are generally chaotic, reflecting the chaos in their societies and everyday lives. Llathrana are rarely evil, despite their fatalistic outlook and morbid antics.<br />
<br />
==Lands==<br />
<br />
Llathrana were the original inhabitants of Dreden, before the Sai'quil and their disciples began colonization of the tree-islands that fill the swamp.<br />
<br />
==Religion==<br />
<br />
The llathrana have no patron deities. Typically they worship nature or the elements, meaning that [[druids]] are the primary spellcasters in most tribes.<br />
<br />
==Language==<br />
<br />
Llathrana speak a language of the same name which consists mostly of growls, squeals, howls, and other guttural sounds. Llathrana are also known to utter a unique hunting cry - long and baleful, like that of a loon and wolf. This cry, often heard for miles through the forest, gives nearby humans good cause to be nervous.<br />
<br />
There is no written form of Llathrana. A need for high-level written communication has not developed from the simple llathrana societies in the swamps of Dreden.<br />
<br />
==Names==<br />
<br />
Llathrana tend to choose names that roughly translate into the names of things in nature.<br />
<br />
Examples: Hrekt (Rock), Grestek (Fire), Squoola (a type of pink flower indgenious to the mountains), Seelma (Mud).<br />
<br />
==Racial Traits==<br />
<br />
* +2 [[Strength]], &minus;2 [[Intelligence]]: While extremely strong, llathrana rely more on their wits then brains. <br />
* [[Humanoid]]<br />
* Medium: As Medium creatures, llathrana have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.<br />
* Llathrana [[base land speed]] is 50 feet.<br />
* [[Low-Light Vision]]: A Llathrana can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. She retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions<br />
* +2 racial bonus on [[Listen]], [[Spot]], and [[Survival]] checks.<br />
* Lesser Scent: A creature with the lesser scent ability can detect an opponent within 5 feet by sense of smell. If the opponent is upwind, the range increases to 10 feet; if downwind, it drops to 0 feet (the creature can detect downwind creatures only in its own square). Strong scents, such as smoke or rotting garbage, can be detected at twice the ranges noted above (minimum 5 feet). Overpowering scents, such as skunk musk or troglodyte stench, can be detected at triple normal range. Detection of a scent does not reveal the exact location of the source--only its presence somewhere within range. However, a creature using lesser scent can take a standard action to note the direction of the scent. Whenever it comes within 5 feet of the source, the creature can take a move action to pinpoint the source's location. A creature with the [[Track]] feat and the lesser scent ability can follow tracks by smell, just as a creature with the [[scent]] ability can.<br />
* [[Natural Weapon]]: Bite (1d4). <br />
* Unfurl: As a move action that provokes attacks of opportunity, a llathrana may unfurl, a joint-popping and form-altering experience. An unfurled llathrana gains the following changes: They gain a +4 bonus [[Strength]], and may use manufactured weapons as normal. However, while unfurled, the llathrana takes a -2 penalty to [[Dexterity]], their speed drops down to 20 feet andthey can't run, and they lose their bite attack (Except when [[Grapple|grappling]]). A llathrana may remain unfurled for a number of rounds equal to their character level (Minimum 1 round), after which it reverts to it's quadruped form and is fatigued for 1d4 rounds. If a llathrana re-furls itself before it's time is up it is still fatigued.<br />
* Light Sensitivity: Llathrana are [[dazzled]] in bright sunlight or within the radius of a [[daylight]] spell.<br />
* Quadruped: A llathrana gains a +4 bonus on ability checks made to resist being [[bull rushed]] or [[tripped]] when standing on the ground and not unfurled (but not when unfurled, climbing, flying, riding, or otherwise not standing firmly on the ground). When not unfurled, a llathrana may make melee attacks with light or one-handed manufactured weapons, albeit at a -5 penalty to attack.<br />
* [[Automatic Languages]]: Llathrana. [[Bonus Languages]]: Common, Dreden.<br />
* [[Favored Class]]: [[Ranger]]<br />
<br />
==Vital Statistics==<br />
<br />
{| class="d20" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"<br />
|+ Table: Llathrana Random Starting Ages<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
! Adulthood || Simple || Moderate || Complex<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| 12 years || +1d8 || +2d8 || +3d8<br />
|}<br />
<br />
{| class="d20" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"<br />
|+ Table: Llathrana Aging Effects<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
! Middle Age<sup>1</sup> || Old<sup>2</sup> || Venerable<sup>3</sup> || Maximum Age<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| 30 years || 55 years || 70 years || +2d10 years<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| colspan="5" class="foot" |<br />
# At middle age, &minus;1 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha.<br />
# At old age, &minus;2 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha.<br />
# At venerable age, &minus;3 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
{| cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" class="d20"<br />
|-<br />
|+ Table: <!-- insert race name --> Random Height and Weight<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
! style="text-align: left;" | Gender || Base Height || Height Modifier || Base Weight || Weight Modifier<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| style="text-align: left;" | Male || 6' 0" || +2d4 || 110 lbs. || &times; (2d6) lb.<br />
|- class="even" style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| style="text-align: left;" | Female || 6' 3" || +2d4 || 115 lb. || &times; (2d6) lb.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
Back to [[Main Page]] &rarr; [[Dungeons and Dragons]] &rarr; [[DnD Races|Races]]<br />
[[Category:DnD]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Race]]<br />
[[Category:Humanoid Type]]<br />
[[Category:LA0]]<br />
[[Category:ECL1]]<br />
[[Category:Faltharis (DnD Campaign Setting)]]</div>Othtimhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Llathrana_(3.5e_Race)&diff=281390Llathrana (3.5e Race)2008-09-17T17:32:16Z<p>Othtim: /* Religion */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{author<br />
|author_name=Risek<br />
|date_created=July 15th, 2008<br />
|status=Complete<br />
}}<br />
{{x0<br />
|la=+0<br />
|ecl=1st<br />
|type=[[SRD:Humanoid Type|Humanoid]] (Llathrana)<br />
|ability_adjust=+2 Str, &minus;2 Int<br />
|size=[[Medium]]<br />
|favored_class=[[Ranger]]<br />
|desc=A lupine race native to the Faltharis Campaign<br />
}}<br />
<br />
=Llathrana=<br />
<br />
==Personality==<br />
<br />
Llathrana embrace death, believing that death is merely a path to new life. A llathrana pack may slaughter another pack to prove a point - suprisingly, being welcomed as heroes among the survivors. To outsiders, llathrana seem to be fatalistic and morbid. They embrace death and decay on levels unheard of among other races, raping and murdering each other just prove their own mortality. Strangely, a llathrana will guard the young of any other llathrana to the death, even if it belongs to its mortal enemy.<br />
<br />
==Physical Description==<br />
<br />
Llathrana are slender quadrupedal humanoids with muscular dog-like hind legs, over-sized canines, vestigial tails, and short bristly hair which covers their body. They move around on thickly calloused hands and feet tipped with thick, blunt claws - excellent for digging, climbing, and wielding weapons. A llathrana may "unfurl" itself, a painful experience which allows them to stand on their hind legs at nearly six feet tall. Most llathrana have dark brown, gray, or black fur. A few individuals have a yellow or white pelt; a llathrana may even have stripes or other color varieties. Llathrana gain dark red faces and manes as they age. Adults typically appear to have bloodstained masks and backs, elders appear to have deep maroon faces. <br />
<br />
A few subspecies of llathrana also exist, with the most notable being a plains-dwelling breed known for stalking and raiding merchant caravans crossing the Illus. Such llathrana tend to be of a lighter build, colored with purple faces.<br />
<br />
A typical llathrana stands around two feet tall at the shoulder (when furled), and weighs about 120 pounds.<br />
<br />
==Relations==<br />
<br />
Throughout history, llathrana have been hunted for sport by nearly every organization of humans. As such, llathrana have a tendecy to return the favor, raiding villages and outposts for the flesh of their enemies. In recent years, rogue llathrana warriors have begun to seek employment from the powerful Sai'quil binders who have proliferated in Dreden, often serving as vessels for [[Norus]] fiends .<br />
<br />
==Alignment==<br />
<br />
Llathrana are generally chaotic, reflecting the chaos in their societies and everyday lives. Llathrana are rarely evil, despite their fatalistic outlook and morbid antics.<br />
<br />
==Lands==<br />
<br />
Llathrana were the original inhabitants of Dreden, before the Sai'quil and their disciples began colonization of the tree-islands that fill the swamp.<br />
<br />
==Religion==<br />
<br />
The llathrana have no patron deities. Typically they worship nature or the elements, meaning that [[druids]] are the primary spellcasters in most tribes.<br />
<br />
==Language==<br />
<br />
Llathrana speak a language of the same name which basically consists of growls, squeals, barks and howls. Llathrana are also known for their hunting cries, which sound like a cross between a loon and a wolf and may be heard for miles.<br />
There is no written form of Llathrana, in the swamps of Dreden it's simply not needed.<br />
<br />
==Names==<br />
<br />
Llathrana tend to choose names that roughly translate into the names of things in nature.<br />
<br />
Examples: Hrekt (Rock), Grestek (Fire), Squoola (a type of pink flower indgenious to the mountains), Seelma (Mud).<br />
<br />
==Racial Traits==<br />
<br />
* +2 [[Strength]], &minus;2 [[Intelligence]]: While extremely strong, llathrana rely more on their wits then brains. <br />
* [[Humanoid]]<br />
* Medium: As Medium creatures, llathrana have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.<br />
* Llathrana [[base land speed]] is 50 feet.<br />
* [[Low-Light Vision]]: A Llathrana can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. She retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions<br />
* +2 racial bonus on [[Listen]], [[Spot]], and [[Survival]] checks.<br />
* Lesser Scent: A creature with the lesser scent ability can detect an opponent within 5 feet by sense of smell. If the opponent is upwind, the range increases to 10 feet; if downwind, it drops to 0 feet (the creature can detect downwind creatures only in its own square). Strong scents, such as smoke or rotting garbage, can be detected at twice the ranges noted above (minimum 5 feet). Overpowering scents, such as skunk musk or troglodyte stench, can be detected at triple normal range. Detection of a scent does not reveal the exact location of the source--only its presence somewhere within range. However, a creature using lesser scent can take a standard action to note the direction of the scent. Whenever it comes within 5 feet of the source, the creature can take a move action to pinpoint the source's location. A creature with the [[Track]] feat and the lesser scent ability can follow tracks by smell, just as a creature with the [[scent]] ability can.<br />
* [[Natural Weapon]]: Bite (1d4). <br />
* Unfurl: As a move action that provokes attacks of opportunity, a llathrana may unfurl, a joint-popping and form-altering experience. An unfurled llathrana gains the following changes: They gain a +4 bonus [[Strength]], and may use manufactured weapons as normal. However, while unfurled, the llathrana takes a -2 penalty to [[Dexterity]], their speed drops down to 20 feet andthey can't run, and they lose their bite attack (Except when [[Grapple|grappling]]). A llathrana may remain unfurled for a number of rounds equal to their character level (Minimum 1 round), after which it reverts to it's quadruped form and is fatigued for 1d4 rounds. If a llathrana re-furls itself before it's time is up it is still fatigued.<br />
* Light Sensitivity: Llathrana are [[dazzled]] in bright sunlight or within the radius of a [[daylight]] spell.<br />
* Quadruped: A llathrana gains a +4 bonus on ability checks made to resist being [[bull rushed]] or [[tripped]] when standing on the ground and not unfurled (but not when unfurled, climbing, flying, riding, or otherwise not standing firmly on the ground). When not unfurled, a llathrana may make melee attacks with light or one-handed manufactured weapons, albeit at a -5 penalty to attack.<br />
* [[Automatic Languages]]: Llathrana. [[Bonus Languages]]: Common, Dreden.<br />
* [[Favored Class]]: [[Ranger]]<br />
<br />
==Vital Statistics==<br />
<br />
{| class="d20" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"<br />
|+ Table: Llathrana Random Starting Ages<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
! Adulthood || Simple || Moderate || Complex<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| 12 years || +1d8 || +2d8 || +3d8<br />
|}<br />
<br />
{| class="d20" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"<br />
|+ Table: Llathrana Aging Effects<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
! Middle Age<sup>1</sup> || Old<sup>2</sup> || Venerable<sup>3</sup> || Maximum Age<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| 30 years || 55 years || 70 years || +2d10 years<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| colspan="5" class="foot" |<br />
# At middle age, &minus;1 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha.<br />
# At old age, &minus;2 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha.<br />
# At venerable age, &minus;3 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
{| cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" class="d20"<br />
|-<br />
|+ Table: <!-- insert race name --> Random Height and Weight<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
! style="text-align: left;" | Gender || Base Height || Height Modifier || Base Weight || Weight Modifier<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| style="text-align: left;" | Male || 6' 0" || +2d4 || 110 lbs. || &times; (2d6) lb.<br />
|- class="even" style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| style="text-align: left;" | Female || 6' 3" || +2d4 || 115 lb. || &times; (2d6) lb.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
Back to [[Main Page]] &rarr; [[Dungeons and Dragons]] &rarr; [[DnD Races|Races]]<br />
[[Category:DnD]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Race]]<br />
[[Category:Humanoid Type]]<br />
[[Category:LA0]]<br />
[[Category:ECL1]]<br />
[[Category:Faltharis (DnD Campaign Setting)]]</div>Othtimhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Llathrana_(3.5e_Race)&diff=281389Llathrana (3.5e Race)2008-09-17T17:31:31Z<p>Othtim: /* Alignment */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{author<br />
|author_name=Risek<br />
|date_created=July 15th, 2008<br />
|status=Complete<br />
}}<br />
{{x0<br />
|la=+0<br />
|ecl=1st<br />
|type=[[SRD:Humanoid Type|Humanoid]] (Llathrana)<br />
|ability_adjust=+2 Str, &minus;2 Int<br />
|size=[[Medium]]<br />
|favored_class=[[Ranger]]<br />
|desc=A lupine race native to the Faltharis Campaign<br />
}}<br />
<br />
=Llathrana=<br />
<br />
==Personality==<br />
<br />
Llathrana embrace death, believing that death is merely a path to new life. A llathrana pack may slaughter another pack to prove a point - suprisingly, being welcomed as heroes among the survivors. To outsiders, llathrana seem to be fatalistic and morbid. They embrace death and decay on levels unheard of among other races, raping and murdering each other just prove their own mortality. Strangely, a llathrana will guard the young of any other llathrana to the death, even if it belongs to its mortal enemy.<br />
<br />
==Physical Description==<br />
<br />
Llathrana are slender quadrupedal humanoids with muscular dog-like hind legs, over-sized canines, vestigial tails, and short bristly hair which covers their body. They move around on thickly calloused hands and feet tipped with thick, blunt claws - excellent for digging, climbing, and wielding weapons. A llathrana may "unfurl" itself, a painful experience which allows them to stand on their hind legs at nearly six feet tall. Most llathrana have dark brown, gray, or black fur. A few individuals have a yellow or white pelt; a llathrana may even have stripes or other color varieties. Llathrana gain dark red faces and manes as they age. Adults typically appear to have bloodstained masks and backs, elders appear to have deep maroon faces. <br />
<br />
A few subspecies of llathrana also exist, with the most notable being a plains-dwelling breed known for stalking and raiding merchant caravans crossing the Illus. Such llathrana tend to be of a lighter build, colored with purple faces.<br />
<br />
A typical llathrana stands around two feet tall at the shoulder (when furled), and weighs about 120 pounds.<br />
<br />
==Relations==<br />
<br />
Throughout history, llathrana have been hunted for sport by nearly every organization of humans. As such, llathrana have a tendecy to return the favor, raiding villages and outposts for the flesh of their enemies. In recent years, rogue llathrana warriors have begun to seek employment from the powerful Sai'quil binders who have proliferated in Dreden, often serving as vessels for [[Norus]] fiends .<br />
<br />
==Alignment==<br />
<br />
Llathrana are generally chaotic, reflecting the chaos in their societies and everyday lives. Llathrana are rarely evil, despite their fatalistic outlook and morbid antics.<br />
<br />
==Lands==<br />
<br />
Llathrana were the original inhabitants of Dreden, before the Sai'quil and their disciples began colonization of the tree-islands that fill the swamp.<br />
<br />
==Religion==<br />
<br />
The llathrana have no deities, instead they worship nature, meaning that [[druids]] are the primary spellcasters in most tribes.<br />
<br />
==Language==<br />
<br />
Llathrana speak a language of the same name which basically consists of growls, squeals, barks and howls. Llathrana are also known for their hunting cries, which sound like a cross between a loon and a wolf and may be heard for miles.<br />
There is no written form of Llathrana, in the swamps of Dreden it's simply not needed.<br />
<br />
==Names==<br />
<br />
Llathrana tend to choose names that roughly translate into the names of things in nature.<br />
<br />
Examples: Hrekt (Rock), Grestek (Fire), Squoola (a type of pink flower indgenious to the mountains), Seelma (Mud).<br />
<br />
==Racial Traits==<br />
<br />
* +2 [[Strength]], &minus;2 [[Intelligence]]: While extremely strong, llathrana rely more on their wits then brains. <br />
* [[Humanoid]]<br />
* Medium: As Medium creatures, llathrana have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.<br />
* Llathrana [[base land speed]] is 50 feet.<br />
* [[Low-Light Vision]]: A Llathrana can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. She retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions<br />
* +2 racial bonus on [[Listen]], [[Spot]], and [[Survival]] checks.<br />
* Lesser Scent: A creature with the lesser scent ability can detect an opponent within 5 feet by sense of smell. If the opponent is upwind, the range increases to 10 feet; if downwind, it drops to 0 feet (the creature can detect downwind creatures only in its own square). Strong scents, such as smoke or rotting garbage, can be detected at twice the ranges noted above (minimum 5 feet). Overpowering scents, such as skunk musk or troglodyte stench, can be detected at triple normal range. Detection of a scent does not reveal the exact location of the source--only its presence somewhere within range. However, a creature using lesser scent can take a standard action to note the direction of the scent. Whenever it comes within 5 feet of the source, the creature can take a move action to pinpoint the source's location. A creature with the [[Track]] feat and the lesser scent ability can follow tracks by smell, just as a creature with the [[scent]] ability can.<br />
* [[Natural Weapon]]: Bite (1d4). <br />
* Unfurl: As a move action that provokes attacks of opportunity, a llathrana may unfurl, a joint-popping and form-altering experience. An unfurled llathrana gains the following changes: They gain a +4 bonus [[Strength]], and may use manufactured weapons as normal. However, while unfurled, the llathrana takes a -2 penalty to [[Dexterity]], their speed drops down to 20 feet andthey can't run, and they lose their bite attack (Except when [[Grapple|grappling]]). A llathrana may remain unfurled for a number of rounds equal to their character level (Minimum 1 round), after which it reverts to it's quadruped form and is fatigued for 1d4 rounds. If a llathrana re-furls itself before it's time is up it is still fatigued.<br />
* Light Sensitivity: Llathrana are [[dazzled]] in bright sunlight or within the radius of a [[daylight]] spell.<br />
* Quadruped: A llathrana gains a +4 bonus on ability checks made to resist being [[bull rushed]] or [[tripped]] when standing on the ground and not unfurled (but not when unfurled, climbing, flying, riding, or otherwise not standing firmly on the ground). When not unfurled, a llathrana may make melee attacks with light or one-handed manufactured weapons, albeit at a -5 penalty to attack.<br />
* [[Automatic Languages]]: Llathrana. [[Bonus Languages]]: Common, Dreden.<br />
* [[Favored Class]]: [[Ranger]]<br />
<br />
==Vital Statistics==<br />
<br />
{| class="d20" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"<br />
|+ Table: Llathrana Random Starting Ages<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
! Adulthood || Simple || Moderate || Complex<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| 12 years || +1d8 || +2d8 || +3d8<br />
|}<br />
<br />
{| class="d20" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"<br />
|+ Table: Llathrana Aging Effects<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
! Middle Age<sup>1</sup> || Old<sup>2</sup> || Venerable<sup>3</sup> || Maximum Age<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| 30 years || 55 years || 70 years || +2d10 years<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| colspan="5" class="foot" |<br />
# At middle age, &minus;1 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha.<br />
# At old age, &minus;2 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha.<br />
# At venerable age, &minus;3 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
{| cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" class="d20"<br />
|-<br />
|+ Table: <!-- insert race name --> Random Height and Weight<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
! style="text-align: left;" | Gender || Base Height || Height Modifier || Base Weight || Weight Modifier<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| style="text-align: left;" | Male || 6' 0" || +2d4 || 110 lbs. || &times; (2d6) lb.<br />
|- class="even" style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| style="text-align: left;" | Female || 6' 3" || +2d4 || 115 lb. || &times; (2d6) lb.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
Back to [[Main Page]] &rarr; [[Dungeons and Dragons]] &rarr; [[DnD Races|Races]]<br />
[[Category:DnD]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Race]]<br />
[[Category:Humanoid Type]]<br />
[[Category:LA0]]<br />
[[Category:ECL1]]<br />
[[Category:Faltharis (DnD Campaign Setting)]]</div>Othtimhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Llathrana_(3.5e_Race)&diff=281388Llathrana (3.5e Race)2008-09-17T17:24:25Z<p>Othtim: /* Physical Description */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{author<br />
|author_name=Risek<br />
|date_created=July 15th, 2008<br />
|status=Complete<br />
}}<br />
{{x0<br />
|la=+0<br />
|ecl=1st<br />
|type=[[SRD:Humanoid Type|Humanoid]] (Llathrana)<br />
|ability_adjust=+2 Str, &minus;2 Int<br />
|size=[[Medium]]<br />
|favored_class=[[Ranger]]<br />
|desc=A lupine race native to the Faltharis Campaign<br />
}}<br />
<br />
=Llathrana=<br />
<br />
==Personality==<br />
<br />
Llathrana embrace death, believing that death is merely a path to new life. A llathrana pack may slaughter another pack to prove a point - suprisingly, being welcomed as heroes among the survivors. To outsiders, llathrana seem to be fatalistic and morbid. They embrace death and decay on levels unheard of among other races, raping and murdering each other just prove their own mortality. Strangely, a llathrana will guard the young of any other llathrana to the death, even if it belongs to its mortal enemy.<br />
<br />
==Physical Description==<br />
<br />
Llathrana are slender quadrupedal humanoids with muscular dog-like hind legs, over-sized canines, vestigial tails, and short bristly hair which covers their body. They move around on thickly calloused hands and feet tipped with thick, blunt claws - excellent for digging, climbing, and wielding weapons. A llathrana may "unfurl" itself, a painful experience which allows them to stand on their hind legs at nearly six feet tall. Most llathrana have dark brown, gray, or black fur. A few individuals have a yellow or white pelt; a llathrana may even have stripes or other color varieties. Llathrana gain dark red faces and manes as they age. Adults typically appear to have bloodstained masks and backs, elders appear to have deep maroon faces. <br />
<br />
A few subspecies of llathrana also exist, with the most notable being a plains-dwelling breed known for stalking and raiding merchant caravans crossing the Illus. Such llathrana tend to be of a lighter build, colored with purple faces.<br />
<br />
A typical llathrana stands around two feet tall at the shoulder (when furled), and weighs about 120 pounds.<br />
<br />
==Relations==<br />
<br />
Throughout history, llathrana have been hunted for sport by nearly every organization of humans. As such, llathrana have a tendecy to return the favor, raiding villages and outposts for the flesh of their enemies. In recent years, rogue llathrana warriors have begun to seek employment from the powerful Sai'quil binders who have proliferated in Dreden, often serving as vessels for [[Norus]] fiends .<br />
<br />
==Alignment==<br />
<br />
Llathrana tend to lean towards the chaos that fills their everyday life, but despite their outlook and antics, they are rarely evil.<br />
<br />
==Lands==<br />
<br />
Llathrana were the original inhabitants of Dreden, before the Sai'quil and their disciples began colonization of the tree-islands that fill the swamp.<br />
<br />
==Religion==<br />
<br />
The llathrana have no deities, instead they worship nature, meaning that [[druids]] are the primary spellcasters in most tribes.<br />
<br />
==Language==<br />
<br />
Llathrana speak a language of the same name which basically consists of growls, squeals, barks and howls. Llathrana are also known for their hunting cries, which sound like a cross between a loon and a wolf and may be heard for miles.<br />
There is no written form of Llathrana, in the swamps of Dreden it's simply not needed.<br />
<br />
==Names==<br />
<br />
Llathrana tend to choose names that roughly translate into the names of things in nature.<br />
<br />
Examples: Hrekt (Rock), Grestek (Fire), Squoola (a type of pink flower indgenious to the mountains), Seelma (Mud).<br />
<br />
==Racial Traits==<br />
<br />
* +2 [[Strength]], &minus;2 [[Intelligence]]: While extremely strong, llathrana rely more on their wits then brains. <br />
* [[Humanoid]]<br />
* Medium: As Medium creatures, llathrana have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.<br />
* Llathrana [[base land speed]] is 50 feet.<br />
* [[Low-Light Vision]]: A Llathrana can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. She retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions<br />
* +2 racial bonus on [[Listen]], [[Spot]], and [[Survival]] checks.<br />
* Lesser Scent: A creature with the lesser scent ability can detect an opponent within 5 feet by sense of smell. If the opponent is upwind, the range increases to 10 feet; if downwind, it drops to 0 feet (the creature can detect downwind creatures only in its own square). Strong scents, such as smoke or rotting garbage, can be detected at twice the ranges noted above (minimum 5 feet). Overpowering scents, such as skunk musk or troglodyte stench, can be detected at triple normal range. Detection of a scent does not reveal the exact location of the source--only its presence somewhere within range. However, a creature using lesser scent can take a standard action to note the direction of the scent. Whenever it comes within 5 feet of the source, the creature can take a move action to pinpoint the source's location. A creature with the [[Track]] feat and the lesser scent ability can follow tracks by smell, just as a creature with the [[scent]] ability can.<br />
* [[Natural Weapon]]: Bite (1d4). <br />
* Unfurl: As a move action that provokes attacks of opportunity, a llathrana may unfurl, a joint-popping and form-altering experience. An unfurled llathrana gains the following changes: They gain a +4 bonus [[Strength]], and may use manufactured weapons as normal. However, while unfurled, the llathrana takes a -2 penalty to [[Dexterity]], their speed drops down to 20 feet andthey can't run, and they lose their bite attack (Except when [[Grapple|grappling]]). A llathrana may remain unfurled for a number of rounds equal to their character level (Minimum 1 round), after which it reverts to it's quadruped form and is fatigued for 1d4 rounds. If a llathrana re-furls itself before it's time is up it is still fatigued.<br />
* Light Sensitivity: Llathrana are [[dazzled]] in bright sunlight or within the radius of a [[daylight]] spell.<br />
* Quadruped: A llathrana gains a +4 bonus on ability checks made to resist being [[bull rushed]] or [[tripped]] when standing on the ground and not unfurled (but not when unfurled, climbing, flying, riding, or otherwise not standing firmly on the ground). When not unfurled, a llathrana may make melee attacks with light or one-handed manufactured weapons, albeit at a -5 penalty to attack.<br />
* [[Automatic Languages]]: Llathrana. [[Bonus Languages]]: Common, Dreden.<br />
* [[Favored Class]]: [[Ranger]]<br />
<br />
==Vital Statistics==<br />
<br />
{| class="d20" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"<br />
|+ Table: Llathrana Random Starting Ages<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
! Adulthood || Simple || Moderate || Complex<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| 12 years || +1d8 || +2d8 || +3d8<br />
|}<br />
<br />
{| class="d20" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"<br />
|+ Table: Llathrana Aging Effects<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
! Middle Age<sup>1</sup> || Old<sup>2</sup> || Venerable<sup>3</sup> || Maximum Age<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| 30 years || 55 years || 70 years || +2d10 years<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| colspan="5" class="foot" |<br />
# At middle age, &minus;1 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha.<br />
# At old age, &minus;2 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha.<br />
# At venerable age, &minus;3 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
{| cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" class="d20"<br />
|-<br />
|+ Table: <!-- insert race name --> Random Height and Weight<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
! style="text-align: left;" | Gender || Base Height || Height Modifier || Base Weight || Weight Modifier<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| style="text-align: left;" | Male || 6' 0" || +2d4 || 110 lbs. || &times; (2d6) lb.<br />
|- class="even" style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| style="text-align: left;" | Female || 6' 3" || +2d4 || 115 lb. || &times; (2d6) lb.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
Back to [[Main Page]] &rarr; [[Dungeons and Dragons]] &rarr; [[DnD Races|Races]]<br />
[[Category:DnD]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Race]]<br />
[[Category:Humanoid Type]]<br />
[[Category:LA0]]<br />
[[Category:ECL1]]<br />
[[Category:Faltharis (DnD Campaign Setting)]]</div>Othtimhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Llathrana_(3.5e_Race)&diff=281387Llathrana (3.5e Race)2008-09-17T17:22:27Z<p>Othtim: /* Physical Description */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{author<br />
|author_name=Risek<br />
|date_created=July 15th, 2008<br />
|status=Complete<br />
}}<br />
{{x0<br />
|la=+0<br />
|ecl=1st<br />
|type=[[SRD:Humanoid Type|Humanoid]] (Llathrana)<br />
|ability_adjust=+2 Str, &minus;2 Int<br />
|size=[[Medium]]<br />
|favored_class=[[Ranger]]<br />
|desc=A lupine race native to the Faltharis Campaign<br />
}}<br />
<br />
=Llathrana=<br />
<br />
==Personality==<br />
<br />
Llathrana embrace death, believing that death is merely a path to new life. A llathrana pack may slaughter another pack to prove a point - suprisingly, being welcomed as heroes among the survivors. To outsiders, llathrana seem to be fatalistic and morbid. They embrace death and decay on levels unheard of among other races, raping and murdering each other just prove their own mortality. Strangely, a llathrana will guard the young of any other llathrana to the death, even if it belongs to its mortal enemy.<br />
<br />
==Physical Description==<br />
<br />
Llathrana are slender quadrupedal humanoids with muscular dog-like hind legs, over-sized canines, vestigial tails, and short bristly hair which covers their body. They move around on thickly calloused hands and feet tipped with thick, blunt claws - excellent for digging, climbing, and wielding weapons. A llathrana may "unfurl" itself, a painful experience which allows them to stand on their hind legs at nearly six feet tall. Most llathrana have dark brown, gray, or black fur. A few individuals have a yellow or white pelt; a llathrana may even have stripes or other color varieties. Llathrana gain dark red faces and manes as they age. Adults typically appear to have bloodstained masks and backs, elders typically appear to have deep maroon faces. <br />
<br />
A few subspecies of llathrana also exist, with the most notable being a plains-dwelling breed known for stalking and raiding merchant caravans crossing the Illus. Such llathrana tend to be of a lighter build, colored with purple faces.<br />
<br />
A typical llathrana stands around two feet tall at the shoulder (when furled), and weighs about 120 pounds.<br />
<br />
==Relations==<br />
<br />
Throughout history, llathrana have been hunted for sport by nearly every organization of humans. As such, llathrana have a tendecy to return the favor, raiding villages and outposts for the flesh of their enemies. In recent years, rogue llathrana warriors have begun to seek employment from the powerful Sai'quil binders who have proliferated in Dreden, often serving as vessels for [[Norus]] fiends .<br />
<br />
==Alignment==<br />
<br />
Llathrana tend to lean towards the chaos that fills their everyday life, but despite their outlook and antics, they are rarely evil.<br />
<br />
==Lands==<br />
<br />
Llathrana were the original inhabitants of Dreden, before the Sai'quil and their disciples began colonization of the tree-islands that fill the swamp.<br />
<br />
==Religion==<br />
<br />
The llathrana have no deities, instead they worship nature, meaning that [[druids]] are the primary spellcasters in most tribes.<br />
<br />
==Language==<br />
<br />
Llathrana speak a language of the same name which basically consists of growls, squeals, barks and howls. Llathrana are also known for their hunting cries, which sound like a cross between a loon and a wolf and may be heard for miles.<br />
There is no written form of Llathrana, in the swamps of Dreden it's simply not needed.<br />
<br />
==Names==<br />
<br />
Llathrana tend to choose names that roughly translate into the names of things in nature.<br />
<br />
Examples: Hrekt (Rock), Grestek (Fire), Squoola (a type of pink flower indgenious to the mountains), Seelma (Mud).<br />
<br />
==Racial Traits==<br />
<br />
* +2 [[Strength]], &minus;2 [[Intelligence]]: While extremely strong, llathrana rely more on their wits then brains. <br />
* [[Humanoid]]<br />
* Medium: As Medium creatures, llathrana have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.<br />
* Llathrana [[base land speed]] is 50 feet.<br />
* [[Low-Light Vision]]: A Llathrana can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. She retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions<br />
* +2 racial bonus on [[Listen]], [[Spot]], and [[Survival]] checks.<br />
* Lesser Scent: A creature with the lesser scent ability can detect an opponent within 5 feet by sense of smell. If the opponent is upwind, the range increases to 10 feet; if downwind, it drops to 0 feet (the creature can detect downwind creatures only in its own square). Strong scents, such as smoke or rotting garbage, can be detected at twice the ranges noted above (minimum 5 feet). Overpowering scents, such as skunk musk or troglodyte stench, can be detected at triple normal range. Detection of a scent does not reveal the exact location of the source--only its presence somewhere within range. However, a creature using lesser scent can take a standard action to note the direction of the scent. Whenever it comes within 5 feet of the source, the creature can take a move action to pinpoint the source's location. A creature with the [[Track]] feat and the lesser scent ability can follow tracks by smell, just as a creature with the [[scent]] ability can.<br />
* [[Natural Weapon]]: Bite (1d4). <br />
* Unfurl: As a move action that provokes attacks of opportunity, a llathrana may unfurl, a joint-popping and form-altering experience. An unfurled llathrana gains the following changes: They gain a +4 bonus [[Strength]], and may use manufactured weapons as normal. However, while unfurled, the llathrana takes a -2 penalty to [[Dexterity]], their speed drops down to 20 feet andthey can't run, and they lose their bite attack (Except when [[Grapple|grappling]]). A llathrana may remain unfurled for a number of rounds equal to their character level (Minimum 1 round), after which it reverts to it's quadruped form and is fatigued for 1d4 rounds. If a llathrana re-furls itself before it's time is up it is still fatigued.<br />
* Light Sensitivity: Llathrana are [[dazzled]] in bright sunlight or within the radius of a [[daylight]] spell.<br />
* Quadruped: A llathrana gains a +4 bonus on ability checks made to resist being [[bull rushed]] or [[tripped]] when standing on the ground and not unfurled (but not when unfurled, climbing, flying, riding, or otherwise not standing firmly on the ground). When not unfurled, a llathrana may make melee attacks with light or one-handed manufactured weapons, albeit at a -5 penalty to attack.<br />
* [[Automatic Languages]]: Llathrana. [[Bonus Languages]]: Common, Dreden.<br />
* [[Favored Class]]: [[Ranger]]<br />
<br />
==Vital Statistics==<br />
<br />
{| class="d20" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"<br />
|+ Table: Llathrana Random Starting Ages<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
! Adulthood || Simple || Moderate || Complex<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| 12 years || +1d8 || +2d8 || +3d8<br />
|}<br />
<br />
{| class="d20" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"<br />
|+ Table: Llathrana Aging Effects<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
! Middle Age<sup>1</sup> || Old<sup>2</sup> || Venerable<sup>3</sup> || Maximum Age<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| 30 years || 55 years || 70 years || +2d10 years<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| colspan="5" class="foot" |<br />
# At middle age, &minus;1 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha.<br />
# At old age, &minus;2 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha.<br />
# At venerable age, &minus;3 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
{| cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" class="d20"<br />
|-<br />
|+ Table: <!-- insert race name --> Random Height and Weight<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
! style="text-align: left;" | Gender || Base Height || Height Modifier || Base Weight || Weight Modifier<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| style="text-align: left;" | Male || 6' 0" || +2d4 || 110 lbs. || &times; (2d6) lb.<br />
|- class="even" style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| style="text-align: left;" | Female || 6' 3" || +2d4 || 115 lb. || &times; (2d6) lb.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
Back to [[Main Page]] &rarr; [[Dungeons and Dragons]] &rarr; [[DnD Races|Races]]<br />
[[Category:DnD]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Race]]<br />
[[Category:Humanoid Type]]<br />
[[Category:LA0]]<br />
[[Category:ECL1]]<br />
[[Category:Faltharis (DnD Campaign Setting)]]</div>Othtimhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Llathrana_(3.5e_Race)&diff=281385Llathrana (3.5e Race)2008-09-17T17:12:50Z<p>Othtim: /* Personality */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{author<br />
|author_name=Risek<br />
|date_created=July 15th, 2008<br />
|status=Complete<br />
}}<br />
{{x0<br />
|la=+0<br />
|ecl=1st<br />
|type=[[SRD:Humanoid Type|Humanoid]] (Llathrana)<br />
|ability_adjust=+2 Str, &minus;2 Int<br />
|size=[[Medium]]<br />
|favored_class=[[Ranger]]<br />
|desc=A lupine race native to the Faltharis Campaign<br />
}}<br />
<br />
=Llathrana=<br />
<br />
==Personality==<br />
<br />
Llathrana embrace death, believing that death is merely a path to new life. A llathrana pack may slaughter another pack to prove a point - suprisingly, being welcomed as heroes among the survivors. To outsiders, llathrana seem to be fatalistic and morbid. They embrace death and decay on levels unheard of among other races, raping and murdering each other just prove their own mortality. Strangely, a llathrana will guard the young of any other llathrana to the death, even if it belongs to its mortal enemy.<br />
<br />
==Physical Description==<br />
<br />
Resembling a cross between an orc and a wolf, llathrana are slender quadrupedal humanoids with muscular dog-like hindlegs, oversized canines, vestigial tails, and short bristley hair covering their bodies. They move around on thickly calloused hands and feet tipped with thick, blunt claws, excellent for digging and climbing, as well as wielding weapons. However, a llathrana may unfurl itself, a painful experience which allows them to stand on their hind legs at nearly six feet tall. Most llathrana have dark brown, gray, or black fur, with a few individuals having a yellow or even white pelt or dark stripes covering its body. Llathrana gain dark red faces and manes as they age, with adults appearing to have bloodstained masks and backs, and elders with deep maroon faces. <br />
A typical llathrana stands around two feet tall at the shoulder (when furled), and weighs about 120 pounds.<br />
<br />
A few subspecies of llathrana also exist, with the most notable being a plains-dwelling breed known for stalking and raiding merchant caravans crossing the Illus. Such llathrana tend to be lighter built and colored, with purple faces.<br />
<br />
==Relations==<br />
<br />
Throughout history, llathrana have been hunted for sport by nearly every organization of humans. As such, llathrana have a tendecy to return the favor, raiding villages and outposts for the flesh of their enemies. In recent years, rogue llathrana warriors have begun to seek employment from the powerful Sai'quil binders who have proliferated in Dreden, often serving as vessels for [[Norus]] fiends .<br />
<br />
==Alignment==<br />
<br />
Llathrana tend to lean towards the chaos that fills their everyday life, but despite their outlook and antics, they are rarely evil.<br />
<br />
==Lands==<br />
<br />
Llathrana were the original inhabitants of Dreden, before the Sai'quil and their disciples began colonization of the tree-islands that fill the swamp.<br />
<br />
==Religion==<br />
<br />
The llathrana have no deities, instead they worship nature, meaning that [[druids]] are the primary spellcasters in most tribes.<br />
<br />
==Language==<br />
<br />
Llathrana speak a language of the same name which basically consists of growls, squeals, barks and howls. Llathrana are also known for their hunting cries, which sound like a cross between a loon and a wolf and may be heard for miles.<br />
There is no written form of Llathrana, in the swamps of Dreden it's simply not needed.<br />
<br />
==Names==<br />
<br />
Llathrana tend to choose names that roughly translate into the names of things in nature.<br />
<br />
Examples: Hrekt (Rock), Grestek (Fire), Squoola (a type of pink flower indgenious to the mountains), Seelma (Mud).<br />
<br />
==Racial Traits==<br />
<br />
* +2 [[Strength]], &minus;2 [[Intelligence]]: While extremely strong, llathrana rely more on their wits then brains. <br />
* [[Humanoid]]<br />
* Medium: As Medium creatures, llathrana have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.<br />
* Llathrana [[base land speed]] is 50 feet.<br />
* [[Low-Light Vision]]: A Llathrana can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. She retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions<br />
* +2 racial bonus on [[Listen]], [[Spot]], and [[Survival]] checks.<br />
* Lesser Scent: A creature with the lesser scent ability can detect an opponent within 5 feet by sense of smell. If the opponent is upwind, the range increases to 10 feet; if downwind, it drops to 0 feet (the creature can detect downwind creatures only in its own square). Strong scents, such as smoke or rotting garbage, can be detected at twice the ranges noted above (minimum 5 feet). Overpowering scents, such as skunk musk or troglodyte stench, can be detected at triple normal range. Detection of a scent does not reveal the exact location of the source--only its presence somewhere within range. However, a creature using lesser scent can take a standard action to note the direction of the scent. Whenever it comes within 5 feet of the source, the creature can take a move action to pinpoint the source's location. A creature with the [[Track]] feat and the lesser scent ability can follow tracks by smell, just as a creature with the [[scent]] ability can.<br />
* [[Natural Weapon]]: Bite (1d4). <br />
* Unfurl: As a move action that provokes attacks of opportunity, a llathrana may unfurl, a joint-popping and form-altering experience. An unfurled llathrana gains the following changes: They gain a +4 bonus [[Strength]], and may use manufactured weapons as normal. However, while unfurled, the llathrana takes a -2 penalty to [[Dexterity]], their speed drops down to 20 feet andthey can't run, and they lose their bite attack (Except when [[Grapple|grappling]]). A llathrana may remain unfurled for a number of rounds equal to their character level (Minimum 1 round), after which it reverts to it's quadruped form and is fatigued for 1d4 rounds. If a llathrana re-furls itself before it's time is up it is still fatigued.<br />
* Light Sensitivity: Llathrana are [[dazzled]] in bright sunlight or within the radius of a [[daylight]] spell.<br />
* Quadruped: A llathrana gains a +4 bonus on ability checks made to resist being [[bull rushed]] or [[tripped]] when standing on the ground and not unfurled (but not when unfurled, climbing, flying, riding, or otherwise not standing firmly on the ground). When not unfurled, a llathrana may make melee attacks with light or one-handed manufactured weapons, albeit at a -5 penalty to attack.<br />
* [[Automatic Languages]]: Llathrana. [[Bonus Languages]]: Common, Dreden.<br />
* [[Favored Class]]: [[Ranger]]<br />
<br />
==Vital Statistics==<br />
<br />
{| class="d20" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"<br />
|+ Table: Llathrana Random Starting Ages<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
! Adulthood || Simple || Moderate || Complex<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| 12 years || +1d8 || +2d8 || +3d8<br />
|}<br />
<br />
{| class="d20" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"<br />
|+ Table: Llathrana Aging Effects<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
! Middle Age<sup>1</sup> || Old<sup>2</sup> || Venerable<sup>3</sup> || Maximum Age<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| 30 years || 55 years || 70 years || +2d10 years<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| colspan="5" class="foot" |<br />
# At middle age, &minus;1 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha.<br />
# At old age, &minus;2 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha.<br />
# At venerable age, &minus;3 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
{| cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" class="d20"<br />
|-<br />
|+ Table: <!-- insert race name --> Random Height and Weight<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
! style="text-align: left;" | Gender || Base Height || Height Modifier || Base Weight || Weight Modifier<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| style="text-align: left;" | Male || 6' 0" || +2d4 || 110 lbs. || &times; (2d6) lb.<br />
|- class="even" style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| style="text-align: left;" | Female || 6' 3" || +2d4 || 115 lb. || &times; (2d6) lb.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
Back to [[Main Page]] &rarr; [[Dungeons and Dragons]] &rarr; [[DnD Races|Races]]<br />
[[Category:DnD]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Race]]<br />
[[Category:Humanoid Type]]<br />
[[Category:LA0]]<br />
[[Category:ECL1]]<br />
[[Category:Faltharis (DnD Campaign Setting)]]</div>Othtimhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Llathrana_(3.5e_Race)&diff=281384Llathrana (3.5e Race)2008-09-17T17:10:12Z<p>Othtim: /* Personality */ gramurs</p>
<hr />
<div>{{author<br />
|author_name=Risek<br />
|date_created=July 15th, 2008<br />
|status=Complete<br />
}}<br />
{{x0<br />
|la=+0<br />
|ecl=1st<br />
|type=[[SRD:Humanoid Type|Humanoid]] (Llathrana)<br />
|ability_adjust=+2 Str, &minus;2 Int<br />
|size=[[Medium]]<br />
|favored_class=[[Ranger]]<br />
|desc=A lupine race native to the Faltharis Campaign<br />
}}<br />
<br />
=Llathrana=<br />
<br />
==Personality==<br />
<br />
Llathrana embrace death, believing that death is merely a path to new life. A llathrana pack may slaughter another pack to prove a point - suprisingly, being welcomed as heroes among the survivors. To outsiders, llathrana seem to be fatalistic and morbid, embracing death and decay on levels unheard of among other races, raping and murdering each other just prove their own mortality. Strangely, a llathrana will guard the young of any other llathrana to the death, even if it belongs to its mortal enemy. <!-- this last comment doesn't seem to fit in at all with their racial philosophy. --~~~~--><br />
<br />
==Physical Description==<br />
<br />
Resembling a cross between an orc and a wolf, llathrana are slender quadrupedal humanoids with muscular dog-like hindlegs, oversized canines, vestigial tails, and short bristley hair covering their bodies. They move around on thickly calloused hands and feet tipped with thick, blunt claws, excellent for digging and climbing, as well as wielding weapons. However, a llathrana may unfurl itself, a painful experience which allows them to stand on their hind legs at nearly six feet tall. Most llathrana have dark brown, gray, or black fur, with a few individuals having a yellow or even white pelt or dark stripes covering its body. Llathrana gain dark red faces and manes as they age, with adults appearing to have bloodstained masks and backs, and elders with deep maroon faces. <br />
A typical llathrana stands around two feet tall at the shoulder (when furled), and weighs about 120 pounds.<br />
<br />
A few subspecies of llathrana also exist, with the most notable being a plains-dwelling breed known for stalking and raiding merchant caravans crossing the Illus. Such llathrana tend to be lighter built and colored, with purple faces.<br />
<br />
==Relations==<br />
<br />
Throughout history, llathrana have been hunted for sport by nearly every organization of humans. As such, llathrana have a tendecy to return the favor, raiding villages and outposts for the flesh of their enemies. In recent years, rogue llathrana warriors have begun to seek employment from the powerful Sai'quil binders who have proliferated in Dreden, often serving as vessels for [[Norus]] fiends .<br />
<br />
==Alignment==<br />
<br />
Llathrana tend to lean towards the chaos that fills their everyday life, but despite their outlook and antics, they are rarely evil.<br />
<br />
==Lands==<br />
<br />
Llathrana were the original inhabitants of Dreden, before the Sai'quil and their disciples began colonization of the tree-islands that fill the swamp.<br />
<br />
==Religion==<br />
<br />
The llathrana have no deities, instead they worship nature, meaning that [[druids]] are the primary spellcasters in most tribes.<br />
<br />
==Language==<br />
<br />
Llathrana speak a language of the same name which basically consists of growls, squeals, barks and howls. Llathrana are also known for their hunting cries, which sound like a cross between a loon and a wolf and may be heard for miles.<br />
There is no written form of Llathrana, in the swamps of Dreden it's simply not needed.<br />
<br />
==Names==<br />
<br />
Llathrana tend to choose names that roughly translate into the names of things in nature.<br />
<br />
Examples: Hrekt (Rock), Grestek (Fire), Squoola (a type of pink flower indgenious to the mountains), Seelma (Mud).<br />
<br />
==Racial Traits==<br />
<br />
* +2 [[Strength]], &minus;2 [[Intelligence]]: While extremely strong, llathrana rely more on their wits then brains. <br />
* [[Humanoid]]<br />
* Medium: As Medium creatures, llathrana have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.<br />
* Llathrana [[base land speed]] is 50 feet.<br />
* [[Low-Light Vision]]: A Llathrana can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. She retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions<br />
* +2 racial bonus on [[Listen]], [[Spot]], and [[Survival]] checks.<br />
* Lesser Scent: A creature with the lesser scent ability can detect an opponent within 5 feet by sense of smell. If the opponent is upwind, the range increases to 10 feet; if downwind, it drops to 0 feet (the creature can detect downwind creatures only in its own square). Strong scents, such as smoke or rotting garbage, can be detected at twice the ranges noted above (minimum 5 feet). Overpowering scents, such as skunk musk or troglodyte stench, can be detected at triple normal range. Detection of a scent does not reveal the exact location of the source--only its presence somewhere within range. However, a creature using lesser scent can take a standard action to note the direction of the scent. Whenever it comes within 5 feet of the source, the creature can take a move action to pinpoint the source's location. A creature with the [[Track]] feat and the lesser scent ability can follow tracks by smell, just as a creature with the [[scent]] ability can.<br />
* [[Natural Weapon]]: Bite (1d4). <br />
* Unfurl: As a move action that provokes attacks of opportunity, a llathrana may unfurl, a joint-popping and form-altering experience. An unfurled llathrana gains the following changes: They gain a +4 bonus [[Strength]], and may use manufactured weapons as normal. However, while unfurled, the llathrana takes a -2 penalty to [[Dexterity]], their speed drops down to 20 feet andthey can't run, and they lose their bite attack (Except when [[Grapple|grappling]]). A llathrana may remain unfurled for a number of rounds equal to their character level (Minimum 1 round), after which it reverts to it's quadruped form and is fatigued for 1d4 rounds. If a llathrana re-furls itself before it's time is up it is still fatigued.<br />
* Light Sensitivity: Llathrana are [[dazzled]] in bright sunlight or within the radius of a [[daylight]] spell.<br />
* Quadruped: A llathrana gains a +4 bonus on ability checks made to resist being [[bull rushed]] or [[tripped]] when standing on the ground and not unfurled (but not when unfurled, climbing, flying, riding, or otherwise not standing firmly on the ground). When not unfurled, a llathrana may make melee attacks with light or one-handed manufactured weapons, albeit at a -5 penalty to attack.<br />
* [[Automatic Languages]]: Llathrana. [[Bonus Languages]]: Common, Dreden.<br />
* [[Favored Class]]: [[Ranger]]<br />
<br />
==Vital Statistics==<br />
<br />
{| class="d20" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"<br />
|+ Table: Llathrana Random Starting Ages<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
! Adulthood || Simple || Moderate || Complex<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| 12 years || +1d8 || +2d8 || +3d8<br />
|}<br />
<br />
{| class="d20" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"<br />
|+ Table: Llathrana Aging Effects<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
! Middle Age<sup>1</sup> || Old<sup>2</sup> || Venerable<sup>3</sup> || Maximum Age<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| 30 years || 55 years || 70 years || +2d10 years<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| colspan="5" class="foot" |<br />
# At middle age, &minus;1 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha.<br />
# At old age, &minus;2 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha.<br />
# At venerable age, &minus;3 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
{| cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" class="d20"<br />
|-<br />
|+ Table: <!-- insert race name --> Random Height and Weight<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
! style="text-align: left;" | Gender || Base Height || Height Modifier || Base Weight || Weight Modifier<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| style="text-align: left;" | Male || 6' 0" || +2d4 || 110 lbs. || &times; (2d6) lb.<br />
|- class="even" style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| style="text-align: left;" | Female || 6' 3" || +2d4 || 115 lb. || &times; (2d6) lb.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
Back to [[Main Page]] &rarr; [[Dungeons and Dragons]] &rarr; [[DnD Races|Races]]<br />
[[Category:DnD]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Race]]<br />
[[Category:Humanoid Type]]<br />
[[Category:LA0]]<br />
[[Category:ECL1]]<br />
[[Category:Faltharis (DnD Campaign Setting)]]</div>Othtimhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Dagger_of_the_skulls&diff=280718Talk:Dagger of the skulls2008-09-12T05:10:30Z<p>Othtim: </p>
<hr />
<div>==Lacking Information==<br />
<br />
The fragment of code says April 8th. Does anyone wish to adopt this page, otherwise I'll delete it. -- [[User:Eiji|Eiji]] 17:23, 11 September 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
: Delete! --[[User:Othtim|Othtim]] 23:10, 11 September 2008 (MDT)</div>Othtimhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Fox-folk_(3.5e_Race)&diff=280717Talk:Fox-folk (3.5e Race)2008-09-12T05:09:49Z<p>Othtim: </p>
<hr />
<div>[[critisicm]]<br />
:Firstpost belongs to the Archangel--[[User:Archangel|Arael]] 18:05, 8 September 2008 (MDT)<br />
:Alright what comments do you have about this race?--[[User:Archangel|Arael]] 18:05, 8 September 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== Not particularly useful. ==<br />
<br />
LA +2 immediately means the race is headed towards the dump in terms of usefulness. The +2 bonus to intelligence and wisdom are completely wasted because no sane caster would ever use a race that grants a level adjustment (no sane person ever would either, but still). Scent is cool and all, but that's a level 2 spell. Natural weapons are pretty useless. And as for the inherent bonus thing...that's just begging for abuse. Ignoring the fact that inherent bonuses are capped at +5 anyway, you could seriously start with a level 1 character with a +9 bonus to charisma. That's almost attractive enough to play despite the LA. The game is balanced on the idea that you'll get a +5 inherent bonus or something at level 11, and none before that. So that seriously needs to be removed. [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] 18:09, 8 September 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:However, they would also be takeing physical penalties if they aimed to be getting all the tails.--[[User:Archangel|Arael]] 16:25, 11 September 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::There are plenty of ways around that. [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] 18:24, 11 September 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::: FURFAGS --[[User:Othtim|Othtim]] 23:09, 11 September 2008 (MDT)</div>Othtimhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Corpselight_Whisperer_(3.5e_Prestige_Class)&diff=280410Talk:Corpselight Whisperer (3.5e Prestige Class)2008-09-09T20:28:42Z<p>Othtim: </p>
<hr />
<div>== Hmmm..... ==<br />
<br />
Does this seem a little powerful to you? Look at the capstone: wildshape into an incorporeal undead...there aren't ''any'' limits?-[[User:Risek|Risek]] 09:53, 9 September 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:At level 16? No. [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] 13:47, 9 September 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:How about changing it with a requimrent that you can only shift into an undead creature with Hit Dice equal to your character level? --[[User:Othtim|Othtim]] 10:49, 9 September 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::I think that was the original intent, as that's how Wild Shape works. [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] 13:48, 9 September 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::Fair enough, I wasn't sure if it was explicitly stated :/ --[[User:Othtim|Othtim]] 14:28, 9 September 2008 (MDT)</div>Othtimhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Amulets_of_the_Lich_Kings_(3.5e_Equipment)&diff=280386Talk:Amulets of the Lich Kings (3.5e Equipment)2008-09-09T17:17:43Z<p>Othtim: </p>
<hr />
<div>== Misplaced ==<br />
<br />
This is not were it belongs. I am not certain what this items is suppose to do but what ever it is it doesn't belong in this category.--[[User:Tisarugain|Tisarugain]] 21:24, 17 August 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:I agree[[User:Summerscythe|Summerscythe]] 23:20, 8 September 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::Tag added, so its an item now. We need a proofreader though, stat! -- [[User:Eiji|Eiji]] 23:26, 8 September 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::: WHAT THE HECK AGUHHH MY BRAIN EXPLODED TRYING TO READ THIS --[[User:Othtim|Othtim]]</div>Othtimhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Corpselight_Whisperer_(3.5e_Prestige_Class)&diff=280354Corpselight Whisperer (3.5e Prestige Class)2008-09-09T16:52:17Z<p>Othtim: added a cap to the incorporeal wild shape</p>
<hr />
<div>{{DnD Prestige Class Infobox<br />
|img=<br />
|imgloc=<br />
|imgsize=<br />
|imgcaption=<br />
|rating_power=<br />
|raters_power=<br />
|rating_wording=<br />
|raters_wording=<br />
|rating_formatting=<br />
|raters_formatting=<br />
|rating_flavor=<br />
|raters_flavor=<br />
|authors=Frank and K<br />
|datecreated=<br />
|adopters=<br />
|dateadopted=<br />
|status=Complete<br />
|editing=Spelling and grammar only<br />
|type=Bad Guy, Strong Spellcasting, Druidic<br />
|desc=Master of decay, and the secrets of the Will-o-Wisps<br />
|len=10<br />
|minlvl=<6<br />
}}<br />
<br />
==Corpselight Whisperer==<br />
<br />
''"Come into my house, it is warm and the nights are both cool and damp in the swamp."''<br />
<br />
The bogs of the Bane Mires are stagnant and reek with the stench of decay. But while they are a boundless well of sickness and death, they are also part of nature, at least according to the merciless will-o-wisps that live there. There are few even among the druids who are willing to make their home in such an inhospitable land. But there are secrets to be learned, for those who with a keen ear and a light step. For while the corpse lights may share their secrets, they may also lead one into the fast bogs from which there is no escape.<br />
<br />
There is a side of nature that few admit the existence of, and even fewer have seen first hand. It is dangerous and cruel, filled with moldering corpses and rank spoilage. But it is perhaps not as different from the forests of home as the elders would have one believe… <br />
<br />
===Becoming a Corpselight Whisperer===<br />
<br />
{| class="d20 dragon monstats" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"<br />
|+ style="font-size: larger; white-space: nowrap;" | Entry Requirements<br />
|-<br />
! Skills:<br />
| Knowledge (Nature) 4 ranks, Listen 4 ranks, Survival 9 ranks.<br />
|-<br />
! Special:<br />
| Ability to Wild Shape.<br />
|-<br />
! Special:<br />
| Must have made friendly contact with a Will-o-Wisp.<br />
|} <br />
<br />
{| class="{{d20}}"<br />
|+ <div>{{#anc:Table: The Corpselight Whisperer}}</div><br />
<p>Hit Die: d8</p><br />
|-<br />
! rowspan="2" | Level<br />
! rowspan="2" | [[BAB|Base<br/>Attack Bonus]]<br />
! colspan="3" | [[SRD:Saving Throw|Saving Throw]]s<br />
! rowspan="2" | Special<br />
! rowspan="2" | [[#Spellcasting|Spellcasting]]<br />
|-<br />
! [[SRD:Saving Throw#Fortitude|Fort]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Reflex|Ref]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Will|Will]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 1st || +0 || + || + || +<br />
| class="left" | Spell-like Abilities: Animate Dead<br />
| class="left" | +1 Spellcaster Level<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 2nd || +1 || + || + || +<br />
| class="left" | Wild Shape: Will-O-Wisp, +1 Wildshape Use<br />
| class="left" | +1 Spellcaster Level<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 3rd || +2 || + || + || +<br />
| class="left" | Spell-like Abilities: Dancing Lights, Terrible Nectar<br />
| class="left" | +1 Spellcaster Level<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 4th || +3 || + || + || +<br />
| class="left" | Summon Wisps<br />
| class="left" | +1 Spellcaster Level<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 5th || +3 || + || + || +<br />
| class="left" | Wild Shape: Large Plant, Sanctum Spell<br />
| class="left" | +1 Spellcaster Level<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 6th || +4 || + || + || +<br />
| class="left" | Bonus Domain (Deathbound)<br />
| class="left" | +1 Spellcaster Level<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 7th || +5 || + || + || +<br />
| class="left" | Spell-like Abilities: Programmed Image, +1 Wildshape Use<br />
| class="left" | +1 Spellcaster Level<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 8th || +6 || + || + || +<br />
| class="left" | Bog’s Heart, Bonus Necromantic Feat<br />
| class="left" | +1 Spellcaster Level<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 9th || +6 || + || + || +<br />
| class="left" | Hands of the Corpselight<br />
| class="left" | +1 Spellcaster Level<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 10th || +7 || + || + || +<br />
| class="left" | Incorporeal Wild Shape 1/day<br />
| class="left" | +1 Spellcaster Level<br />
|}<br />
'''Class Skills (4 + [[Int]] modifier per level)'''<br/><br />
Concentration (Con), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), and Swim (Str).<br />
<br />
====Class Features====<br />
<br />
'''Weapon and Armor Proficiencies:''' The Corpselight Whisperer gains no new armor or weapon proficiencies.<br />
<br />
'''Spellcasting:''' Every level, the Corpselight Whisperer casts spells (including gaining any new spell slots and spell knowledge) as if she had also gained a level in a spellcasting class she had previous to gaining that level.<br />
<br />
'''Spell-like Abilities (Sp):''' A Corpselight Whisperer can use ''[[SRD:Animate Dead|animate dead]]'' as a spell-like ability. At 3rd level, she is able to use ''[[SRD:Dancing Lights|dancing lights]]'', and at 7th level she is able to use ''[[SRD:Programmed Image|programmed image]]''. Her caster level is equal to her hit dice, and these abilities are usable at will.<br />
<br />
'''Wild Shape:''' At 2nd level, a Corpselight Whisperer can use her Wild Shape ability to assume the form of a [[SRD:Will-O'-Wisp|Will-O-Wisp]], regardless of the allowed size, type, or hit dice of her Wild Shape ability. Becoming a Will-o-Wisp in this manner gives the Whisperer all of the Will-o-wisp's Extraordinary abilities and Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat. At level 7, the Whisperer can use her Wild Shape ability to assume the form of a Plant of up to Large size. Becoming a Plant in this fashion uses the normal rules for a Druid's Wild Shape ability. The Corpselight Whisperer may use her Wild Shape ability one extra time per day at levels 2, 4, and 7. Levels in Corpselight Whisperer stack with levels in other Wild Shaping classes for the purposes of maximum hit dice and duration.<br />
<br />
'''Terrible Nectar (Su):''' At 3rd level the Corpselight Whisperer gains sustenance from the terror of others. If she is within 60 feet of an intelligent creature that is affected by a fear effect, she needs one less meal that day and can get by with 2 hours less sleep. If such a creature is killed while under the influence of a fear effect and within 60 feet of her, she does not need to eat or sleep that day at all.<br />
<br />
'''Summon Wisps (Su):''' A Whisperer of 4th level or higher can summon Will-O-Wisps to aid her. The wisps serve faithfully for one hour and then vanish. The Whisperer can summon one wisp for every two class levels each day, and can choose to summon all of them at once or to conjure them in smaller groups as desired.<br />
<br />
'''Bonus Feat:''' At 5th level, the Corpselight Whisperer gains Sanctum Spell as a bonus feat. A magical sanctum created in this manner must be in a marshy natural setting (though it does not have to be a structure). At 8th level, the Corpselight Whisperer gains an additional [[Tome of Necromancy (DnD Other)#Necromantic Creation Feats|Necromantic Creation Feat]] that she meets the prerequisites for as a bonus feat.<br />
<br />
'''Bonus Domain:''' At 6th level, the Whisperer gains the Deathbound Domain as a bonus domain. She gains the granted ability (to animate 50% more undead with each use of animate dead), and can prepare one extra domain spell at every spell level using the normal rules for domain spell preparation,<br />
<br />
'''Bog's Heart (Su):''' A Corpselight Whisperer of 8th level or higher who dies is reincarnated 1d10 days later in the middle of her magical sanctum, provided that no one has cut off her magical sanctum in the meantime (either by physically making the area into something other than a swamp, or through magic such as desecrate). Being reincarnated in this fashion does not result in level loss and costs no XP. Unlike the normal spell, the Corpselight Whisperer will return with a new young adult body if he dies by reaching his maximum age.<br />
<br />
'''Hands of the Corpselight (Ex):''' Like a Will-o-Wisp, a Corpselight Whisperer of 9th level can deliver powerful electric shocks. Any touch or natural weapon attack of the Corpselight Whisperer can also inflict 2d8 of electricity damage (even if it would already inflict electricity damage).<br />
<br />
'''Incorporeal Wild Shape (Su):''' A Corpselight Whisperer of 10th level or higher gains the ability Wild Shape into an Undead creature of the Incorporeal subtype with Hit Dice equal to the player's character level. The Whisperer gains all of the assumed form’s Extraordinary, Supernatural, and Spell-like abilities. The Corpselight Whisperer may only Wild Shape in this manner once per day, but if she would gain additional uses of Elemental Wild Shape for any reason, she gains an equal number of additional uses of Incorporeal Wild Shape.<br />
<br />
===External Links===<br />
<br />
[http://www.tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=34248 Tome of Necromancy (source)]<br />
<br />
----<br />
{{DnD Prestige Classes Breadcrumb}}<br />
[[Category:DnD]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Class]]<br />
[[Category:Prestige Class]]<br />
[[Category:Bad Guy]]<br />
[[Category:Strong Spellcasting]]<br />
[[Category:Divine Spellcasting]]</div>Othtimhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Corpselight_Whisperer_(3.5e_Prestige_Class)&diff=280345Talk:Corpselight Whisperer (3.5e Prestige Class)2008-09-09T16:49:00Z<p>Othtim: </p>
<hr />
<div>== Hmmm..... ==<br />
<br />
Does this seem a little powerful to you? Look at the capstone: wildshape into an incorporeal undead...there aren't ''any'' limits?-[[User:Risek|Risek]] 09:53, 9 September 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:How about changing it with a requimrent that you can only shift into an undead creature with Hit Dice equal to your character level? --[[User:Othtim|Othtim]] 10:49, 9 September 2008 (MDT)</div>Othtimhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Gruegirl&diff=280064User talk:Gruegirl2008-09-07T18:58:23Z<p>Othtim: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{Messages of Interest|messages=<br />
{{MoI-Row<br />
|page=Talk:Dentures_(DnD_Equipment)<br />
|section=<br />
|notifier=Kisame93<br />
|date_time=11:39, 26 May 2008 (MDT)<br />
}}<br />
}}<br />
<br />
== Welcome Message ==<br />
<br />
I appreciate your enthusiasm to make me part of the community, but I don't believe I need the welcome messege kicking around my talk page.<br />
<br />
:It's just that things really are not supposed to be deleted from talk pages of any kind (See [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Talk_page Help:Talk Pages]). If you really don't want old discussions here I guess it will be okay... Sorry about that ''':)'''. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 16:04, 15 October 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::Yeah I just didn't want that big-ass welcome screen here... It's my bad.--[[User:Gruegirl|Gruegirl]] 18:15, 18 October 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::Do you think that welcome message is overkill? What could be improved? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:32, 18 October 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::Well it's IMMENSE! I want my page to be small, especially because I'm new, I want there to be open space for others to comment and meet with me and talk to me like you're doing. I don't want them to see that enormous page-filling welcome screen and think twice about adding to the talk page. The welcome screen should be much smaller, more conscise. --[[User:Gruegirl|Gruegirl]] 12:36, 19 October 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::Do you think we should have a "click here" sort of thing that links to a welcome page? ie: "Welcome to the site. If you would like to know more you can read about it at ''some page name''". --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 00:15, 20 December 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::Yeah that makes sense. Rather then having that huge welcome screen in my talk page... I'd personally rather have a clean talk page and stumble blindly through the site then have that monster sitting there when I make an account. --[[User:Gruegirl|Gruegirl]] 00:30, 20 December 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::Although, alternatively, you can also just archive your welcome discussion right away so it no longer gets in the way... --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:59, 20 December 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::::Technically that's what I did... and it was re-posted twice hehe... but it's in my history page and shall be for all eternity!--[[User:Gruegirl|Gruegirl]] 02:00, 21 December 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::Although archives are fairly different (see my user talk page for example) than history... But, it's all good. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:17, 24 December 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::: For all this talk of not having a welcome section, there's sure a lot of welcoming going on. Indent party! --[[User:Othtim|Othtim]] 23:40, 14 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::::::: Indent party at the water cooler! Free bagels at the water cooler!--[[User:Gruegirl|Gruegirl]] 16:17, 16 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
== Hello? ==<br />
<br />
You were a good contributor to the wiki for a while, now youre gone. Sad face :( --[[User:Othtim|Othtim]] 12:58, 7 September 2008 (MDT)</div>Othtimhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:3.5e_Mundane_Alchemical_Items&diff=280057Talk:3.5e Mundane Alchemical Items2008-09-07T18:49:35Z<p>Othtim: New page: Okay, consider this. Is it possible to have these items arranged similar to the DnD_Prestige_Classes arrangement? --~~~~</p>
<hr />
<div>Okay, consider this. Is it possible to have these items arranged similar to the [[DnD_Prestige_Classes]] arrangement? --[[User:Othtim|Othtim]] 12:49, 7 September 2008 (MDT)</div>Othtimhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=User:Othtim/Equipment&diff=279734User:Othtim/Equipment2008-09-06T01:38:28Z<p>Othtim: /* Equipment I've added */</p>
<hr />
<div>===Equipment===<br />
* [[Gonnestafe (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Matchcord (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Talc (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Gonnestafe (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Light Crossbow of Acid Arrow (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Madiera Wine (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Wine of Nightshade (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Caduceus (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Sanctus Globus (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Part of the Acacia Tree (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Eye Gems (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[User:Othtim/livingspell| A Treatise On Living Spells]] - a book discussing living spells<br />
<br />
===Alchemical-ish Substances===<br />
* [[Fulminating Gold (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Luminous Water (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Oil of Brick (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Powder of Sympathy (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Powdered Pearl (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Smelling Salts (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
<br />
===Artifacts and Epic Items===<br />
* [[The Emerald Tablet (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[The Book of Thoth (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Seneferu's Golden Lotus (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
<br />
===Spells===<br />
* [[Seige Cannon (DnD Epic Spell)]] - An epic spell that conjures a massive siege cannon<br />
* [[Variants of Future Spell Power (DnD Epic Spell)]] - An epic spell that boosts the power of spells yet-to-be-cast<br />
* [[Jess' Twin Portals (DnD Spell)|Twin Portals]] - create a small portal to grab things a long way away<br />
* [[Jess' Greater Twin Portals (DnD Spell)|Greater Twin Portals]] - bigger and better<br />
<br />
===NPCs===<br />
<br />
* [[Tracy Miller (DnD NPC)]] - a female Heartwarder<br />
* [[Tracy Miller, Lich (DnD NPC)]] - a female Heartwarder Lich<br />
* [[Jess Atmore (DnD NPC)]] - a male Sorcerer focused on interplanar travel<br />
* [[Sam (DnD NPC)]] - a rust monster.<br />
<br />
===Other Misc===<br />
* [[DnD_Epic_Factors]] - A table of user-contributed epic spell factors<br />
* [[Firearm Focus (DnD Optimized Character Build)]] - A page about effective firearm users<br />
* [[Reducing_Absolutes (DnD_Variant_Rule)|Reducing Absolutes]] - variant rules for reducing immunities<br />
* [[UA:Reputation|Unearthed Arcana - Reputation]]<br />
* [[UA:Contacts|Unearthed Arcana - Contacts]]<br />
* [[UA:Honor|Unearthed Arcana - Honor]]<br />
<br />
===Open Game Content equipment from other sources===<br />
<br />
* [[Swords_Into_Plowshares_Book|Swords Into Plowshares book]]<br />
<br />
====SeanKReynolds.com====<br />
* [[Crocodile Mask (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Headband of Sorcerous Knowledge (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Nexus Map (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Wild Magic Student (DnD Feat)]]<br />
* [[Orb of Forgotten Tears (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
<br />
====dnd.druidic.net====<br />
* [[Cannibalize Item (DnD Feat)]]<br />
* [[Misslefruit Bow (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Dominate Animal, Mass (DnD Spell)]]<br />
* [[Wild Magic (DnD Variant Rule)]]<br />
<br />
====EN World (with permission)====<br />
* [[Scorching Spell (DnD Feat)]] - Reveille<br />
* [[Elemental Spellcasting (DnD Feat)]] - Reveille<br />
<br />
<br />
[[User:Othtim|Back]]</div>Othtimhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=User:Othtim/Equipment&diff=279733User:Othtim/Equipment2008-09-06T01:38:08Z<p>Othtim: /* Alchemical-ish Substances */</p>
<hr />
<div>===Equipment I've added===<br />
* [[Gonnestafe (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Matchcord (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Talc (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Gonnestafe (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Light Crossbow of Acid Arrow (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Madiera Wine (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Wine of Nightshade (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Caduceus (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Sanctus Globus (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Part of the Acacia Tree (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Eye Gems (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[User:Othtim/livingspell| A Treatise On Living Spells]] - a book discussing living spells<br />
<br />
===Alchemical-ish Substances===<br />
* [[Fulminating Gold (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Luminous Water (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Oil of Brick (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Powder of Sympathy (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Powdered Pearl (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Smelling Salts (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
<br />
===Artifacts and Epic Items===<br />
* [[The Emerald Tablet (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[The Book of Thoth (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Seneferu's Golden Lotus (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
<br />
===Spells===<br />
* [[Seige Cannon (DnD Epic Spell)]] - An epic spell that conjures a massive siege cannon<br />
* [[Variants of Future Spell Power (DnD Epic Spell)]] - An epic spell that boosts the power of spells yet-to-be-cast<br />
* [[Jess' Twin Portals (DnD Spell)|Twin Portals]] - create a small portal to grab things a long way away<br />
* [[Jess' Greater Twin Portals (DnD Spell)|Greater Twin Portals]] - bigger and better<br />
<br />
===NPCs===<br />
<br />
* [[Tracy Miller (DnD NPC)]] - a female Heartwarder<br />
* [[Tracy Miller, Lich (DnD NPC)]] - a female Heartwarder Lich<br />
* [[Jess Atmore (DnD NPC)]] - a male Sorcerer focused on interplanar travel<br />
* [[Sam (DnD NPC)]] - a rust monster.<br />
<br />
===Other Misc===<br />
* [[DnD_Epic_Factors]] - A table of user-contributed epic spell factors<br />
* [[Firearm Focus (DnD Optimized Character Build)]] - A page about effective firearm users<br />
* [[Reducing_Absolutes (DnD_Variant_Rule)|Reducing Absolutes]] - variant rules for reducing immunities<br />
* [[UA:Reputation|Unearthed Arcana - Reputation]]<br />
* [[UA:Contacts|Unearthed Arcana - Contacts]]<br />
* [[UA:Honor|Unearthed Arcana - Honor]]<br />
<br />
===Open Game Content equipment from other sources===<br />
<br />
* [[Swords_Into_Plowshares_Book|Swords Into Plowshares book]]<br />
<br />
====SeanKReynolds.com====<br />
* [[Crocodile Mask (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Headband of Sorcerous Knowledge (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Nexus Map (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Wild Magic Student (DnD Feat)]]<br />
* [[Orb of Forgotten Tears (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
<br />
====dnd.druidic.net====<br />
* [[Cannibalize Item (DnD Feat)]]<br />
* [[Misslefruit Bow (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Dominate Animal, Mass (DnD Spell)]]<br />
* [[Wild Magic (DnD Variant Rule)]]<br />
<br />
====EN World (with permission)====<br />
* [[Scorching Spell (DnD Feat)]] - Reveille<br />
* [[Elemental Spellcasting (DnD Feat)]] - Reveille<br />
<br />
<br />
[[User:Othtim|Back]]</div>Othtimhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Oil_of_Brick_(3.5e_Equipment)&diff=279732Oil of Brick (3.5e Equipment)2008-09-06T01:37:21Z<p>Othtim: update</p>
<hr />
<div>{{author|author_name=Othtim|date_created=30/09/2007|status=Done}}<br />
<br />
==Oil of Brick==<br />
<br />
''Oil of Brick'' is created by heating peices of brick to red-hot temperture, and then quenching them in a vessel of olive oil. The brick absorbs the oil, and is then placed in a retort and heated so as to create a distillate of the oil drawn from the brick. ''Oil of Brick'' is also known as the ''Oil of Philosophers.''<br />
<br />
''Oil of Brick'' can be created with the proper materials and a successful [[SRD:Craft_Skill|Craft (Alchemy)]] check (DC 10).<br />
<br />
Topical application or ingestion grants a ''+1 alchemical'' bonus to [[SRD:Heal_Skill|Heal]] checks to cure tumors or growths. Using a flask or vial of ''Oil of Brick'' grants a ''+1 alchemical'' bonus to [[Craft]] (gem cutting) or [[Profession]] (gem cutting) checks. <br />
<br />
One vial costs 20 gp and weighs 1 lb. <br />
<br />
''Wikipedia: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_of_brick Oil of Brick]''<br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
Back to [[Main Page]] &rarr; [[Dungeons and Dragons]] &rarr; [[DnD Equipment|Equipment]] &rarr; [[User Mundane Alchemical Items|Mundane Alchemical Items]].<br />
[[Category:DnD]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Equipment]]<br />
[[Category:Mundane]]<br />
[[Category:Alchemical]]</div>Othtimhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Powdered_Pearl_(3.5e_Equipment)&diff=279731Powdered Pearl (3.5e Equipment)2008-09-06T01:33:28Z<p>Othtim: updates</p>
<hr />
<div>{{author|author_name=Othtim|date_created=5/09/2008|status=Done}}<br />
<br />
==Powdered Pearl==<br />
<br />
''Powdered Pearl'' is created by crushing pearls into a powder. Irregular freshwater pearls are generally used to make the pearl powder due to the low cost of obtaining them and relative availability (compared to jewelery-quality pearls). ''Powdered pearl'' can be very poisonous if not prepared properly - the pearl must be powdered evenly and dissolved completely to be absorbed. The powder is generally used to treat nervous ailments and as a beauty aid. <br />
<br />
''Powdered pearl'' can be created with an appropriate number of pearls (usually 8 to 10) and a successful [[SRD:Craft_Skill|Craft (Alchemy)]] check (DC 10).<br />
<br />
Using a vial of ''Powdered Pearl'' grants a ''+1 alchemical'' bonus to [[Heal]] checks to temporarily relieve nervous system ailments (including twitchiness, diarrhea, convulsions, etc). <br />
Relief lasts for 24 hours.<br />
<br />
A vial (containing about a handful) of ''Powdered Pearl'' costs around 100gp. <br />
<br />
''Wikipedia: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_powder Pearl Powder]''<br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
Back to [[Main Page]] &rarr; [[Dungeons and Dragons]] &rarr; [[DnD Equipment|Equipment]] &rarr; [[User Mundane Alchemical Items|Mundane Alchemical Items]].<br />
[[Category:DnD]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Equipment]]<br />
[[Category:Mundane]]<br />
[[Category:Alchemical]]</div>Othtimhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Powdered_Pearl_(3.5e_Equipment)&diff=279730Powdered Pearl (3.5e Equipment)2008-09-06T01:26:08Z<p>Othtim: creation.</p>
<hr />
<div>==Powdered Pearl==<br />
<br />
''Powdered Pearl'' is created by crushing pearls into a powder. Irregular freshwater pearls are generally used to make the pearl powder due to the low cost of obtaining them and relative availability (compared to jewelery-quality pearls). ''Powdered pearl'' can be very poisonous if not prepared properly - the pearl must be powdered evenly and dissolved completely to be absorbed. <br />
<br />
Using a vial of ''Powdered Pearl'' grants a ''+1 alchemical'' bonus to [[Heal]] checks to temporarily relieve nervous system ailments (including twitchiness, diarrhea, convulsions, etc). <br />
Relief lasts for 24 hours.<br />
<br />
A vial (containing about a handful) of ''Powdered Pearl'' costs around 100gp.<br />
<br />
''Wikipedia: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_powder Pearl Powder]''<br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
Back to [[Main Page]] &rarr; [[Dungeons and Dragons]] &rarr; [[DnD Equipment|Equipment]] &rarr; [[User Mundane Alchemical Items|Mundane Alchemical Items]].<br />
[[Category:DnD]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Equipment]]<br />
[[Category:Mundane]]<br />
[[Category:Alchemical]]</div>Othtimhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Oil_of_Brick_(3.5e_Equipment)&diff=279725Talk:Oil of Brick (3.5e Equipment)2008-09-06T00:57:04Z<p>Othtim: New page: needs balance re:tumors. --~~~~</p>
<hr />
<div>needs balance re:tumors. --[[User:Othtim|Othtim]] 18:57, 5 September 2008 (MDT)</div>Othtimhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Oil_of_Brick_(3.5e_Equipment)&diff=279724Oil of Brick (3.5e Equipment)2008-09-06T00:52:37Z<p>Othtim: </p>
<hr />
<div>==Oil of Brick==<br />
<br />
''Oil of Brick'' is created by heating peices of brick to red-hot temperture, and then quenching them in a vessel of olive oil. The brick absorbs the oil, and is then placed in a retort and heated so as to create a distillate of the oil drawn from the brick. ''Oil of Brick'' is also known as the ''Oil of Philosophers.''<br />
<br />
Topical application or ingestion of a small quantity of the oil will cause any natural tumors or growths present to shrink and disappear within 2d4 days. Using a flask or vial of ''Oil of Brick'' grants a ''+1 alchemical'' bonus to [[Craft]] (gem cutting) or [[Profession]] (gem cutting) checks. <br />
<br />
One vial costs 20 gp and weighs 1 lb. <br />
<br />
''Wikipedia: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_of_brick Oil of Brick]''<br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
Back to [[Main Page]] &rarr; [[Dungeons and Dragons]] &rarr; [[DnD Equipment|Equipment]] &rarr; [[User Mundane Alchemical Items|Mundane Alchemical Items]].<br />
[[Category:DnD]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Equipment]]<br />
[[Category:Mundane]]<br />
[[Category:Alchemical]]</div>Othtimhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=User:Othtim/Equipment&diff=279721User:Othtim/Equipment2008-09-06T00:35:32Z<p>Othtim: /* Equipment I've added */</p>
<hr />
<div>===Equipment I've added===<br />
* [[Gonnestafe (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Matchcord (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Talc (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Gonnestafe (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Light Crossbow of Acid Arrow (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Madiera Wine (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Wine of Nightshade (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Caduceus (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Sanctus Globus (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Part of the Acacia Tree (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Eye Gems (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[User:Othtim/livingspell| A Treatise On Living Spells]] - a book discussing living spells<br />
<br />
====Alchemical-ish Substances====<br />
* [[Powder of Sympathy (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Luminous Water (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Oil of Brick (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Fulminating Gold (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Smelling Salts (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
<br />
===Artifacts and Epic Items===<br />
* [[The Emerald Tablet (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[The Book of Thoth (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Seneferu's Golden Lotus (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
<br />
===Spells===<br />
* [[Seige Cannon (DnD Epic Spell)]] - An epic spell that conjures a massive siege cannon<br />
* [[Variants of Future Spell Power (DnD Epic Spell)]] - An epic spell that boosts the power of spells yet-to-be-cast<br />
* [[Jess' Twin Portals (DnD Spell)|Twin Portals]] - create a small portal to grab things a long way away<br />
* [[Jess' Greater Twin Portals (DnD Spell)|Greater Twin Portals]] - bigger and better<br />
<br />
===NPCs===<br />
<br />
* [[Tracy Miller (DnD NPC)]] - a female Heartwarder<br />
* [[Tracy Miller, Lich (DnD NPC)]] - a female Heartwarder Lich<br />
* [[Jess Atmore (DnD NPC)]] - a male Sorcerer focused on interplanar travel<br />
* [[Sam (DnD NPC)]] - a rust monster.<br />
<br />
===Other Misc===<br />
* [[DnD_Epic_Factors]] - A table of user-contributed epic spell factors<br />
* [[Firearm Focus (DnD Optimized Character Build)]] - A page about effective firearm users<br />
* [[Reducing_Absolutes (DnD_Variant_Rule)|Reducing Absolutes]] - variant rules for reducing immunities<br />
* [[UA:Reputation|Unearthed Arcana - Reputation]]<br />
* [[UA:Contacts|Unearthed Arcana - Contacts]]<br />
* [[UA:Honor|Unearthed Arcana - Honor]]<br />
<br />
===Open Game Content equipment from other sources===<br />
<br />
* [[Swords_Into_Plowshares_Book|Swords Into Plowshares book]]<br />
<br />
====SeanKReynolds.com====<br />
* [[Crocodile Mask (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Headband of Sorcerous Knowledge (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Nexus Map (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Wild Magic Student (DnD Feat)]]<br />
* [[Orb of Forgotten Tears (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
<br />
====dnd.druidic.net====<br />
* [[Cannibalize Item (DnD Feat)]]<br />
* [[Misslefruit Bow (DnD Equipment)]]<br />
* [[Dominate Animal, Mass (DnD Spell)]]<br />
* [[Wild Magic (DnD Variant Rule)]]<br />
<br />
====EN World (with permission)====<br />
* [[Scorching Spell (DnD Feat)]] - Reveille<br />
* [[Elemental Spellcasting (DnD Feat)]] - Reveille<br />
<br />
<br />
[[User:Othtim|Back]]</div>Othtimhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Othtim&diff=278266User talk:Othtim2008-08-28T05:24:15Z<p>Othtim: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{Messages of Interest|messages=<br />
}}{{Archives<br />
|label1= Archive 1 (Discussions 1-3)<br />
}}</div>Othtimhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Caduceus_(3.5e_Equipment)&diff=278137Talk:Caduceus (3.5e Equipment)2008-08-27T21:41:59Z<p>Othtim: </p>
<hr />
<div>== Image And What It Implies ==<br />
<br />
shouldn't this have something to do with healing? {{Unsigned|143.195.201.161|21:55, 27 October 2007(MDT)}}<br />
<br />
:No. Please read the wikipage on caduceus. othtim --[[User:75.153.172.237|75.153.172.237]] 23:20, 30 October 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::Link [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caduceus here]. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 23:27, 30 October 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== Rod vs. Staff ==<br />
<br />
Seems more like a rod. [[User:128.42.153.150|128.42.153.150]] 21:11, 22 July 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
: Fair enough. You're right, it does seem more like a rod. --[[User:Othtim|Othtim]] 15:41, 27 August 2008 (MDT)</div>Othtimhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Main_Page&diff=254962Talk:Main Page2008-05-16T23:56:35Z<p>Othtim: /* Featured User */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Archives<br />
|label1=Discussions 1&ndash;30<br />
|label2=Discussions 31&ndash;44<br />
}}<br />
<br />
== 4th edition ==<br />
<br />
I don't really want to recreate the rumours and excitement concerning the upcoming 4th edition, but it looks like we need to think about a way to handle it here. It's pretty sure that there will be two editions in parallel use, at least for a while, so we need a way to separate editions. Tagging articles [[:Category:3.5]] and [[:Category:4.0]] wouldn't be too hard, what I'm concerned about is article lemmata for articles that exists in different versions for different editions. <br />
<br />
Also, it's not clear yet whether there will be a 4th edition SRD. I hope there will be one. --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 08:50, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:Might be a good idea to put SRD 3.5 articles with a template underneath (this is only a suggestion, not an attempt to have a million templates per page):<br />
<br />
:{| style="text-align: center; font-size:0.9em;" width="100%"<br />
| [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|40px]]<br/>This material is published under the [[V3.5 rules]].<br/><small>[[Main Page|&rarr;More]]</small><br />
|}<br />
<br />
:Although, there might be too many templates if we do this. perhaps we could replace the SRD template to this for 3.5 articles:<br />
<br />
:{| class="messagebox protected" style="border:2px solid #99B; padding:0px; font-size:0.9em;"<br />
|-<br />
| valign="top" | [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|45px]]<br />
| This material is published under the '''[[Open Game License v1.0a]]'''. The [[GNU Free Documentation License]] does not apply to this page. This material is for the D&D [[V 3.5 rules]].<br />
|}<br />
<br />
:We don't really need to mark homebrew stuff- it should work for 4.0 rules anyway. Whatre can I find news on the 4th edition, anyway? --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 09:10, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::Have you been at the WotC Homepage lately? Did you notice something? --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 09:48, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::If 4e is really coming out we can most likely just slap on a small template on all 4e things or all 3.5e things. Also, the categories you said above will work. I do not see it as too much of a problem... --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 10:55, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::According to my reasearch, it ios not out until 2011 (rather silly really; why advertise it four and a bit years before its release), so we really do not have to bother with it yet, anyway. {{Unsigned|Sam Kay|10:04, 16 August 2007 (MDT)}}<br />
<br />
::::::Boo! Hsssss! I had a browser tab open for the last ten minutes of the countdown of the [http://www.wizards.com/dnd D&D] page. Once it finished, I got "Service Unavailable". About as disappointing as 3.0 psionics. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 16:35, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::Lol ''':)'''. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 16:38, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::4th edition is definitely coming. We really need to sit down, argue, butt heads, and work out the namespacing issues now. Thankfully, 3E has a namespace already. We have lots to sort out. Wikiworld will instantly be 4th compatible, as I haven't bothered with stats for most of the writeup. The new MIC style items should also be compatible. There are interesting times ahead. --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 18:39, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::It has been stated that the PHB will be out May '08 MM June '08 and DMG July '08 {{Unsigned|Quill|19:11, 16 August 2007 (MDT)}}<br />
<br />
::::::::::Yes, we have a year to prepare but it makes it easier later if we start thinking about it now. Btw., I'm still waiting for the WotC Homepage to survive sudden massive attention so I can see the official WotC Press release... --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 03:22, 17 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::Just do what I suggested and replace the OGC tgemplate with:<br />
:::::::::::{| class="messagebox protected" style="border:2px solid #99B; padding:0px; font-size:0.9em;"<br />
|-<br />
| valign="top" | [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|45px]]<br />
| This material is published under the '''[[Open Game License v1.0a]]'''. The [[GNU Free Documentation License]] does not apply to this page. This material is for the D&D [[V 3.5 rules]].<br />
|}<br />
<br />
:::::::::::It is alot easier to mark 3.5 in this way. You could also add an image to the template to mark it, I suppose. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 04:30, 17 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::::::I vote to leave the V3.5 on the wiki pemanently (unless the wiki runs out of memory), as some people will still use V3.5. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 09:39, 17 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::::Btw, [http://rustmonster.net/2007/08/16/dd-4th-edition-announced-gen-con/ here] it says that Wizards announced to continue the OGL. Good decision. --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 09:45, 17 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
{{Discussion Indentation Revert}}<br />
<br />
:Can we get a 4E Info/Rumor link up on the landing page? (Though we may as well link it to ENWorld. They will have the best coverage.) [http://www.enworld.org/index.php?page=4e ENWorld 4E Page] It hasn't been updated yet, but it will be. --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 14:19, 17 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::Great! it will be nice to have 4.0e on the wiki.--[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 08:27, 18 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::A few things. First off we need to figure out if the homebrew material will be compatible with 4e, if it is we are well off. If it is not we need to figure out how we are going to categorize the 3.5e and the 4e homebrew information separately. Oh, and yes, D&D Wiki has enough space to keep the 3.5e material - nothing need ever be deleted to save space on D&D Wiki. Secondly, if we want a link to 4e information from ENWorld then, I feel, that we should add it as a news item. Dmilewski can take care of this if this is the communities decision. Thirdly we need to figure out when the 4e SRD is coming out to see how much time we have to prepare for it. About the SRD (3.5e and 4e); we need to decide if we want a different namespace for the two SRD editions or if we want to organize them by their identifiers. Anyway, if the homebrew information is compatible we are looking at not too much work (and a much more useful and successful D&D Wiki). Let us hope... ''':)'''. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:10, 18 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::I think ther homebrew stuff will mostlky ber compatable with 4e, but if not we will have to work to update the best stuff... --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 12:22, 18 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::Either the homebrew material is almost 100% good-to-go or it is not. We cannot have a medium on D&D Wiki. The reason we can not have a medium is because many many people will not switch over to 4e for a long time (or ever!) and we do want want these people to lose D&D Wiki as a recourse. If the two editions are not compatible we will have to have two separate pages like [[Dungeons and Dragons]] and we will have to have 3.5e classes, races, etc and 4e classes, races, etc. Again, we need to really know if they will be compatible or not (and if someone has any information please cite the source). --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:32, 18 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::Yeah, I know, I was meaning as they are now... I have had a look at the articles on WotC website, and I seem to remember that the playtest report mentioned that a player was playing a psyon (because it was 3.5e) to see if it was compatible.--[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 12:42, 18 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::I volenteer to help updating homberew stuff to 4e should the need arise (hopefully it won't). --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 12:54, 18 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::I think that conversion of each section should be considered on a case-by-case basis. For example, magic items may only need a level assigned to them. That's an easy conversion worth doing. Classes and prestige classes will need to be entirely rewritten as trees, maneuvers, or such, if they are worth translating at all. <br />
<br />
::::::::My current belief is that we will need to split the content. That hoses the entire redirect initiative. (That was a reservation of mine with the redirect initiative. All the pages that I did for the SRD were hard-referenced. I used no redirects.) <br />
<br />
::::::::Campaign environments will be easiest to convert. Many simply implement the existing system, then list some house rules. For example, LotR and Wikiworld are both concept heavy, rules light. Wikiworld has always been rules light, as I wanted Wikiworld to work with any game system. I suggest that Sam keep LotR rules light, so as to keep it universal.<br />
<br />
:::::::::I was at GenCon when they made the announcement of 4e. According to Wizards of the Coast, the 3.5e material will be compatible with a minimum of modification. There were no details given at the time, however, so what that means, I'm not sure. --[[User:Skwyd|Skwyd]] 14:04, 23 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::::Many classes and (both base and prestige) might be obsolete under the new rules- if the same effect can be made just by using talents on one of the other classes. I think we'll have to make a big review of everything and check it for 4e compatibility, maybe putting a 4e Compatible template and a 4e Incompatible template (and nothing on pages that haven't nbeen checked yet, obviously). [[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 08:25, 3 November 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::Or we could just keep 3.5e material 3.5e material, since not everyone is going to switch right away... Maybe keep it for a couple years than change it to 4e. Thoughts? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 16:16, 4 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
I read on the Wizards page that one thing they're thinking of implementing with all the online stuff they're using in 4th ed is a wiki to allow home brew stuff. If that's true, it may be best to just keep this site in 3.x to avoid competition with the "official" wiki. I'm still uncertain about all that though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Banyan|Banyan]] 23:07, 23 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:I don't think a little competition will hurt. If Wizards opens their own wiki, that's an excellent idea, but it doesn't mean we should give up this project here. --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 00:57, 24 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::I wouldn't bother with the "official wiki" anyway. This one is better. Anyway, why would we be scared of competition? It is not like we are trying to make money, or anything. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 04:00, 24 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::Would someone like to contact them and ask them if this is true? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:35, 26 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
==New Edition Issues==<br />
<br />
The following questions are both technical and procedural. There is no correct answer. These questions are here to collect upcoming issues with the wiki and decisions that should be considered. Please add to the list.<br />
<br />
===General architecture===<br />
<br />
How best to manage a wiki filled with multiple editions and systems (3E, 4E, Modern, Etc.)<br />
<br />
:I am very open to discussion, but I feel that the best way to manage different systems is to make the different edition pages very obvious. For example, we could have all namespace v4 pages come with a slightly darker page background, or something similar. &mdash; <span style="color:#002137;">[[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] <small> ([[User_talk:Blue Dragon|talk]])</small></span> 10:22, 22 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::I agree. The Wizards message boards use a different skin for each game. &ndash;[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] <small>([[User talk:Cuthalion|talk]])</small> 10:57, 22 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::I am against the changing of the skin, however I think namespaces are the way to go. We could label the namespaces as SRD3.5e, SRD4e, 4e, 3.5e, D20M, etc. What do you guys think about this idea? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 21:11, 22 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::People will be far too confused if they want to know whether the article is 3.5 or 4.0, and they constantly have to be checking namespaces. It will be much easier if the page background is slightly darker for 4.0, or something similar. I am not talking about a different feel, just a difference. There is a difference :) &mdash; <span style="color:#002137;">[[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] <small> ([[User_talk:Blue Dragon|talk]])</small></span> 18:00, 23 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::Why not have two menu pages, one for each edition, and label all pages with 3.5 and 4.0? --[[User: Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 04:02, 24 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::Sam Kay, do you mean namespaces? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:04, 26 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::Yeah... I did. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 06:23, 1 September 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
===Namespaces===<br />
Should we move current SRD pages to a 3E namespace?<br />
<br />
:I assume you mean 3.5E namespace, and I feel that we need to wait a bit until the structure is clear and known to all, but I feel that it definitely needs to happen before 4E comes out. &mdash; <span style="color:#002137;">[[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] <small> ([[User_talk:Blue Dragon|talk]])</small></span> 10:23, 22 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
How do we want the namespaces to interact?<br />
<br />
:Why not have two D&D menus: 3.5, and 4.0. That way, you would know whether you where in 3.5 or 4.0. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 10:33, 3 September 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
What should we do with articles that are invariant between 3E and 4E (assuming there are any)?<br />
<br />
:This brings up another question: It would be great if there was a way to allow edits on a 3.5E to be reflected, or maybe a reflection would be requested, onto a 4E page. This way the races or whatnot would remain the same. &mdash; <span style="color:#002137;">[[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] <small> ([[User_talk:Blue Dragon|talk]])</small></span> 10:25, 22 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::I've been wrestling with related questions on [[WikiRPS]]. It's easy to have small (or even large) pieces of shared text, using a template. But what if the bulk of the text is shared, but just the numbers scattered throughout the text are different (for instance)? As far as I know, the only way to do it is to modularize the text into templates as much as possible. &ndash;[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] <small>([[User talk:Cuthalion|talk]])</small> 11:02, 22 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
Redirects point to 3E SRD. Is there a way to have namespace relative redirects, where <nowiki>[[foo]]</nowiki> inside the <nowiki>[[SRD]]</nowiki> context points to <nowiki>[[SRD:Foo]]</nowiki> while <nowiki>[[foo]]</nowiki> in the 4E context points to <nowiki>[[SRD4:Foo]]</nowiki>. <br />
<br />
:I don't think it's possible, but I'm willing to be proven wrong. &ndash;[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] <small>([[User talk:Cuthalion|talk]])</small> 09:55, 21 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::It would be possible with a few minor hacks. However, this will lead to a very confusing website. I am against the idea. &mdash; <span style="color:#002137;">[[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] <small> ([[User_talk:Blue Dragon|talk]])</small></span> 10:18, 22 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
===Templates===<br />
<br />
What templates should be used to tag 3E and 4E pages?<br />
<br />
===Homebrew===<br />
<br />
Should homebrew rules be tagged by edition?<br />
<br />
:I strongly feel so. Everything is specific to a version if it falls back on D&D. &mdash; <span style="color:#002137;">[[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] <small> ([[User_talk:Blue Dragon|talk]])</small></span> 10:26, 22 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::That depends on whether it is edition specific or not: WotC declaired that 3.5e would be compatable with 4.0e --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 06:19, 1 September 2007 (MDT)--[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 06:19, 1 September 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::Im new here just signed up today but was reading through this and had something to say. According to the Dnd podcast 4ed is not fully compatible with 3.5, They imply that if you want to use a lot of stuff it will have to be updated. In fact they go so far as to say that you may even have to recreate things from the ground up. So separating old material and new material will be nessacary. I'd suggest tagging everything now 3.5. then creating a menu with two separate sections 3.5 and 4 and go through a process of reviewing and or editing the old material and copy it over to the new namespace.[[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 07:16, 5 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::Not nessassaraly- look as CSs- they are mostly background stuff, therefore, they have no <br />
need of a tag for either 3.5 or 4. Deities might not, depending on rule changes. Enviroments will not, as it is mostly descriptive stuff. And they said that it would a be a case-by-case thing. Plus, changing the DnD category to 3.5e would take forever. there are about 4000 articles (I think) here. Better to leave them as DnD, and add 4e. Which has been done. And anyway, I said "compatable" not "fully compatable". They mean slightly different things: one means that some suff may need minor changes, others would need alot, the other means that you could just drop it into a game. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 09:36, 5 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
Should campaigns get their own namespace, or belong to their intended edition?<br />
<br />
:I feel that campaigns should not get their own namespaces because it would remove the items in the campaign from D&D Wiki linking schemes, etc. &mdash; <span style="color:#002137;">[[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] <small> ([[User_talk:Blue Dragon|talk]])</small></span> 10:26, 22 August 2007 (MDT)''<br />
<br />
===Site conversion===<br />
<br />
How best to automate changes?<br />
<br />
Should 3E redirect be systematically replace with hard page references?<br />
<br />
:I'm not sure I understand the question. Can you give an example? &ndash;[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] <small>([[User talk:Cuthalion|talk]])</small> 09:55, 21 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::I think it means that rather than mentions of "darkvision" being linked to the darkvision page it says what page information about darkvision can be found at in the core rule books. If so, I am against the idea. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 04:09, 6 October 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== Another 4e Option ==<br />
<br />
I can't help but feel that the cleanest solution would to be just host a completely separate wiki specifically for 4E, and just circumvent all the aforementioned issues. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 11:30, 21 October 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:I agree&mdash;having a separate wiki would be very clean, but it may not be as useful, since one would have to switch between the wiki for different versions of D&D. However, I am starting to like the idea... --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:24, 21 October 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::Well, I think the ease of having a separate wiki would probably be more valuable than the "convenience" of having them together. Also, my understanding is that 4E is not nearly so compatible with 3.5E. So, perhaps the "clean slate" concept would be much better. --[[User:Skwyd|Skwyd]] 10:02, 22 October 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::From what I'm reading it seems like it'll about as compatible as 2e is to 3e.<br />
:::Also, let's not forget that the above issues are merely the ones of which we can conceive. With projects this size, more issues always arise after implementation.<br />
:::4ed20wiki.com anyone? —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 19:36, 27 October 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::Wizards did say 4e would be compatible with 3e with a minor amount of modification. Why not have two sub-main pages within this wiki? On the main page you have links to 3rd edition D20 and 4th edition D20. Then each edition could have it's own sub-main page just like our current main page... That would be ''like'' two wikis but without the flicking from wiki to wiki, having two accounts, and the possibility of reduced number of edits on each wiki. Personally, I think it would be better to have one wiki with separate sections. We already have modern and D&D with separate sections on one wiki, so why not do it with 3e and 4e? --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 11:16, 28 October 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::I agree w/ Sam, we should just include a sub-set for D&D 4E like we did for d20 Modern. That way people can have just one account and since 3.5 will be compatible w/ 4E people can still look at all of our 3.5 Stuff and port it over to 4E. Just Create a Dungeons and Dragons 4E Page and a 4ESRD and everything's fine. --[[User:Watsyurname529|Watsyurname529]] 11:21, 28 October 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::I know that the "official" announcement was that 4E would be compatible with 3E, however, I've listened to the Podcasts, read much of the forum boards, and tried to pay attention to what is out there and I don't think it will be that compatible. In fact, Dave Noonan said on the D&D Podcast that there won't be a simple process to take a 3E character and just equate it to 4E. The level progression is different, the spread of powers associated with each level will change for each of the classes, and many of the class abilities (especially spell casting) are being changed greatly. Also, monsters are being reworked extensively, and many of the mechanics are being revised, rewritten, or scrapped entirely. I have a feeling that the compatibility will be simply that you can take a story line from a 3E adventure and use it, but the mechanics, though familiar, are not the same. --[[User:Skwyd|Skwyd]] 09:55, 30 October 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::I still think one wiki would be best. Plus, I have also been reading the announcements, and I think a lot of the things can already be achieved with variants: the saves working like ACs, for example, add 10 to each save, take 10 from the DC, and roll a D20 and add the DC, compare to save. Easy. Critical spells? I have already done a variant for that before they announced it in Design and development. It is on this site under the title [[Spellcasting (DnD Variant Rule)|Spellcasting]]. So 3E-4E conversion could be a case of slight modification using variant rules. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 10:31, 30 October 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::I'm not sure I see exactly how variants address the issue of hosting materials for two different versions of the d20 System. Are you suggesting that for every 4E rule component that's different from the corresponding 3.5 rule, it be put under the [[DnD Rules]] or a SRD Variant section? And if so, would this be in addition to or instead of hosting 4E SRD in it's own space?<br />
::::::::And since the d20 Modern section was brought up, I never really cared for it being hosted next to the d20 stuff. Admittedly, it hasn't been a problem, but that could be due to the fact that there's far fewer users using that section than the d20 section (if the amount of user-submitted material is any indication). Whether or not 4E material has it's own wiki, I'm definitely against the 4E d20 Modern and d20 Future being hosted on the same wiki.<br />
::::::::With the issue of multiple accounts, there's a way to have only one account apply to both wikis. I created an account on a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] site a while ago, and it works with all wikis there. [[User:Blue Dragon|Blue]] would know how complicated such a thing would be to accomplish, and if it'd be worth while. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 11:20, 30 October 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::The answer to your question is no, I was merely stating that I think 3E will be compatible with 4E with a minimal of rule conversion. If we can have one account on two seperate wikis, would it be possible to have a single user page (and talk page) for '''BOTH''' wikis? I knows you have seperate pages on wikia... and have links between wikis work as an "inside" link rather than an "external link"? If so, then having two wikis '''Would''' be more... better. Erm... More... practical. Although if we could have a united main page for both that lead to each seperate wiki, that would be good too. About 4E modern and D20 future, starwars ect, ect, yadda yadda yadda, I am not really bothered about them. So long as we have 3E and 4E D&D (and 3E modern would be good, although we could '''completely''' replace it with 4E modern), then I am happy. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 15:25, 30 October 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::::I have strengthened and decided my view, I am against two wikis for a number of reasons. One is that people would have two user pages, two talk pages, and two recent changes lists would exist. It would become a lot to handle. Another reason is that it would divide visitors between two sites, making it look like dandwiki.com is actually not doing as well as it would be, therefore making it not as popular on google, etc. Another reason I am against it is that people will choose one wiki they like and stick with it, disabling half of our growing user base. It would stop prompting people to join random discussions as much, and stop prompting them to help out as much. Another reason is that structure changes would have to be done twice, the same template made two times, one for each wiki. It seems, to me, like a lot more problems would arise than good would come out of it. I am against making two wikis.<br />
::::::::::A solution I see to this problem is namespaces. We could have namespaces such as 3.5e, 4e, 3.5eSRD, and 4eSRD to eliminate confusion as to which version something is. I think namespaces would be the best solution to this problem, not separate wikis. Maybe we should vote? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 16:00, 30 October 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::Sure. Why not? —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 21:25, 31 October 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::::::Done. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:19, 31 October 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::::If anyone can see a way to make the voting table below clearer please do. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 10:32, 1 November 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
{{Discussion Indentation Revert}}<br />
<br />
:I voted for everything. That's because I believe that we will need our whole toolbox to sort this out.<br />
:First, we need to identify the two idea complicating this discussion and table them. I believe that D20 Modern will be best served with it's own sister wiki. Simply by separating it, we greatly simplify our discussion. It then becomes its own discussion (which it deserves). Campaigns also deserves their own discussion. <br />
:This greatly simplifies our problem. <br />
:We already know that we will need new templates for 4.0. (Fact: see the new creature layout block.) We will also need new page preloads. Layout differences will help us tell one page from another. The new class pages will look different than the old class pages simply by being laid out differently. That does the same job as a skin. We also have footer and header templates that can go into a preload and existing pages.<br />
:Namespaces are powerful tools to help us sort out what is what, even at a glance. They provide an absoluteness that chains through everything. The new SRD will most definitely be in a new namespace. For contributor content, I don't see a powerful enough need for a separate namespace when layouts and templates are already providing us good service. Page titles also convey information. '''Page Title (DnD Page)''' is different from '''Page Title (4E Page)'''. <br />
:Categories will be directly impacted by namespaces, but the purpose of categories is not in separating pages, but in collecting like pages. If we try to separate pages too much using Categories, all we do is create a complicated set of categories. We have page titles and namespaces to help a user identify what page goes with which system. These should be sufficient.<br />
:Finally, there is ignorance. If we make the wiki too complex for contributors, we will lose contributors. Any schema that we invent must be apparent to our average contributor.<br />
:That's alot, isn't it?<br />
:My belief is that we should make a new namespace for the new SRD, and let the body of the wiki sort itself out with layouts, footers, and linking. Most sections are clearly one edition or the other. The trouble sections (D20 Modern and Campaigns) need their own discussions to sort out. --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 07:52, 1 November 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::If I didn't know better, I'd swear you were putting together an argument for separate wikis. I think this statement sums it up:<br />
<br />
:::''If we make the wiki too complex for contributors, we will lose contributors.''<br />
<br />
::There's going to be plenty to worry about with just dealing with one edition without having to worry about how keep the editions separate, and too many of the solutions depend on the users maintaining the separation. Right now we have users assigning incorrect categories or neglecting categories, putting non-SRD material in the SRD namespace, not using the preloads, not putting the " (DnD xxxx)" identifier (or putting the wrong identifier) when they create a page, and so on and so on. Trying to maintain a separation between editions is going to add to the problem. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 10:45, 1 November 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::Nothing on this earth will stop the symptoms above. Ignorance will always exist. I believe the above are symptoms of too-few editors. We have needed editors patrolling their own areas for a while. We must also admit to ourselves that editing is not very interesting to most of our contributors. I really don't know how to address that issue.<br />
:::One reason that I don't want separate wikis is that our Campaign section is always among the most popular sections. How do I maintain Wikiworld across two wikis? If our solutions won't work well for campaigns, we will hurt ourselves.--[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 15:09, 1 November 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::Also, on the incorrect editing, most random people who post here don't know all the catagories or how to properly code a wiki. I still don't know all the catagories but I usually go find a page that does and copy and paste. So the incorrect editing will always be a problem. I also firmly stand behind the idea of just one wiki, everything in one place. --[[User:Watsyurname529|Watsyurname529]] 15:28, 1 November 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::I agree with Dmilewski. Why was the last sysop elected more than half a year ago? It's because we have a large issue with people not wanting to edit the infrastructure of this site. The last editor that really edited the infrastructure was [[User:Mkill|Mkill]] (albeit with some very controversial edits), who since that time has left D&D Wiki. The infrastructure is not perfect here, many many things need to be improved or are currently wrong, but why is no one stepping up and fixing them? Is D&D Wiki to complex for people to handle? Should we dumb it down? And how do the questions I just asked pertain to 4e material?<br />
:::::Actually, I think the questions I just asked are the core of this issue. A new 4e wiki will eliminate all the issues with people not wanting to edit the infrastructure, and that is why it seems so appealing. It will make a new slate, without D&D Wiki's insane hierarchy (which, by the way, only exists because average users do not edit the infrastructure or help other people's creations on D&D Wiki), and without all of the work that needs to be done on D&D Wiki that is not getting done (publications, dplc's for races, modernizing classes layouts, linking orphaned pages, etc, etc). D&D Wiki has issues, and a new 4e wiki will remove them all... but I don't like to run from my problems.<br />
:::::Yes, D&D Wiki needs some major changes to become what I envision it to be; to become what everyone envisions it to be, but I feel we can accomplish these changes within this current wiki, and just this current wiki. Problems will arise from adding a new edition, but we can solve these problems, we will need to solve these problems... and, of course, the best way to solve these problems is to solve the problem with the average user not editing the infrastructure, because that is where I feel it all stems from. If the average editor feels that D&D Wiki does not just need more content, but rather needs infrastructure help, organizational help, help with making things look good, and help with making everything balanced, then with everyones hard work all the problems on D&D Wiki will soon disappear, creating an environment where adding a new edition will be as smooth as adding a new race. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 16:29, 1 November 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::Well not everyone wants to just go on a site and edit the way it works just for fun. They might add something but I wouldn't expect them to edit it. Maybe you should try on the equipment page to when you add a new item show some of the various templetes you can use such as the author one and the various catagories you can use. This might help because then you can just copy and paste what you need. I do agree that if we had more people editing and making things right the first or second time then this place would run much smoother. Now I would like to step up and help edit and my area would be the equipment section as I spend most my time there and I am most familar with it. You still might have to make more minor edits to what I have done but I garentee you that there will be less of them. Also, all I would be doing is standardizing and making minor edits as I do not know how to code much more than that; I could learn but that will take time. If you would like me to try to do that I will, it's just anywhere else and I'm not going to be nearly as useful. --[[User:Watsyurname529|Watsyurname529]] 21:18, 1 November 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::I really didn't for my post to be a ''"plea for help"'' (even though it may have come off like that... ''':P'''), but if you want to do something which requires little or no wiki-syntax knowledge thats helps out [[DnD Equipment]] please drop a note on my user-talk page and I will help you find something that needs to get done on [[DnD Equipment]]. Anyway... back to the subject on hand..... --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:57, 1 November 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::When does the vote end? --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 10:38, 14 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::Does the 5th of December sound okay? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 11:45, 2 December 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::::::Yeah. I think everybody who wants a vote has voted or will have done by then. We can always send a MOI to people who havent voted. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 10:26, 3 December 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::Okay, the vote is over. Thanks to everyone that voted, and it appears that we will not be making a separate wiki for 4e material (or holding a book burning convention) but rather organize the different edition by way of categories, namespaces, and possibly changing the identifier. Agiain, thanks to everyone that voted ''':)'''. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 17:05, 5 December 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::::::::So, when are we going to start setting it up for 4e? --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 13:40, 15 December 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::::Feel free to start whenever you have time... --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 21:04, 15 December 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
{{Discussion Indentation Revert}}<br />
<br />
:I'd love to, but what do we call the new pages... "4E Dungeons and Dragons", "4E D20 Modern", "4E DnD Base Classes"? --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 09:03, 16 December 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::Or "Dungeons and Dragons (4E)?" There's still a few more details that need to be decided. In what namespace will user content be? Main or "4E"? How do we deal with items independent of rules versions (i.e. maps, campaigns and the like)?<br />
::Personally, I think we can mirror the 3.5 section by replacing all the instances of "DnD" in all the identifiers with "4E" instead (e.g. "4E Character Options," "4E Feats," "4E Creatures," etc...), and the landing page can just be "Fourth Edition." (I always though "Dungeons and Dragons" and "DnD" were bit of misnomers in this context.) —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 10:37, 16 December 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::Ok. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 12:33, 16 December 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::I'll start setting it up under 4E Homebrew, 4E Feats, etc. We can move them if need be. If we have stuff under 4E as you suggested, I think DnD should be replaced with 3E or 3.5E for the 3.5 stuff... Thoughts? --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 02:18, 22 December 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::Started to set it up- see [[4E Homebrew|this page]]. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 09:17, 22 December 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
=== The 4e Movement ===<br />
<br />
I looked over the page and I feel there are a couple kinks to be worked out. First off do we want the pages being labeled as "4E" or "4e"? Secondly, which pages do we want to work with both editions? Should these pages keep the "DnD" while all the other pages would adopt a 3.5e or 4e, respectively, identifier? Thirdly, should we change the descriptions of the sub-pages to say which edition they cover or would that be redundant? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 11:35, 22 December 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:I think 4e, Maps, campaign settings, possibly deities (depending on changes), Environments, Possibly Quests and Disscussion could be shared, yes, they keep DnD, rest become 3.5e or 4e, yes the rest need to say edition sub-pages cover. Any thoughts? --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 13:34, 22 December 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::Yes. How can we make the newly implemented dpl on [[Dungeons and Dragons]] (thank you so much, Sledged) work with non-specific edition pages in all the main categories (for DM's, for Players, or General)? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 16:27, 24 December 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::Give pages that work for both two categories? --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 06:08, 27 December 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::[[DnD Campaign Settings|Campaign Settings]], [[DnD Links|Links]], [[DnD Guidelines|Guidelines]], etc. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 21:37, 27 December 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::Ok, I have done everything except the spells section and the SRD. I have made a 4e version of the pages that I was not sure of (quests and deities), and linked to both (we delete the 4e one if not required or remove the category if the 4e one is required). What do you think? --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 09:27, 23 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::One thing is that everything could be piped so it does not say "4e" all the time. I feel that if one is already on the 4e landing page then having 4e before everything would just come off as repetitive. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 11:19, 23 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::What do you mean? Like 4e Homebrew/Classes/Base Classes? --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 06:51, 24 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::::Not exactly. I was refering to things like [[4e Deities]] being piped to [[4e Deities|Deities]]. It just seems repetitive to be on the 4e page and have everything say 4e before it. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 17:43, 24 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::Ok. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 10:18, 25 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::::::[in a robotic voice] TASK COMPLETE. Are there any more tasks to be done on the 4e Homebrew section? --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 05:24, 27 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::Other than the spells section I really do not see anything else. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 10:20, 28 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::::::::Good. Shall we set up the 4e SRD section in the same way so we can just get on with transcribing it when 4e comes out? --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 06:58, 3 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::::I read somewhere that WotC will not be releasing a 4e SRD. I think we need verify or disprove this and then decide what to do from that point. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:47, 4 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
{{Discussion Indentation Revert}}<br />
<br />
:[http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4news/20080108a 4E SRD and OGL]. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 10:46, 4 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::"All of the material included in the OGL Designer’s Kit will be available for free starting on June 6, 2008. Parties who find the cost prohibitive can begin developing their products at that time." I guess that means we're able to have the SRD for 4e! --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 07:20, 5 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
===Vote===<br />
<br />
{| class="d20" style="text-align: left;"<br />
|+ 4e Solution &mdash; Voting (Please use "#" and extra lines to separate)<br />
! rowspan="2" | For making a new wiki to encompass 4e material !! colspan="6" | For keeping D&D Wiki as a whole, encompassing all editions !! rowspan="2" | Launch a book-burning party which has the goal of burning every 4e book<br />
|-<br />
! Think namespaces are the solution to 4e material !! Think categories are the solution to 4e material !! Think changing the identifier is the solution to 4e material !! Think changing the background color/skin is the solution to 4e material !! Think templates are the solution to 4e material !! Think that more than one of the aforementioned solutions is the best solution for 4e material (Please say which ones would work best together)<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
# [[User:Sledged|Sledged]] (w/ New Skin)<br />
# [[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] (What in the current wiki would we want to link to with 4e? That is the only reason I see for keeping it together... Besides usernames I suppose.)<br />
| <br />
# [[User:Sol|Sol]] <br />
# [[User:EldritchNumen|EldritchNumen]]<br />
| <br />
# [[User:Trogdor|Trogdor]]<br />
|<br />
|<br />
|<br />
|<br />
# [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] (Namespaces (for SRD material), Categories, Changing the identifier (for homebrew material))<br />
# [[User:Watsyurname529|Watsyurname529]] (Namespaces, Catagories)<br />
# [[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] (All the above)<br />
# [[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] (Namespaces, Categories)<br />
# [[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] (Namespaces, Skin)<br />
# [[User:Pirate-Sorcerer|Pirate-Sorcerer]] (Namespaces, Categories)<br />
# [[User:Daniel Draco|Daniel Draco]] (Namespaces, Categories)<br />
# [[User:OptimizationFanatic|OptimizationFanatic]] (Namespaces, Categories)<br />
|<br />
# [[User:xidoraven|xido]] (lacking respect for corporate global capitalism)<br />
# [[User:Othtim|othtim]] - I *like* ''finger of death''.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
::The option to destroy all D&D4e books in the world is not an option. I am upset about this --[[User:Mander|Mander]] 19:20, 30 November 2007 (MST))<br />
<br />
:::LOL! Of course we can't take that action, even if we want to! It is probably unlawful or something. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 05:12, 1 December 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::That option has been added ''';)'''. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 21:09, 2 December 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::'''LETS GO N' BURN THINGS!!!''' [loads AK47] '''UPRISING AGAINST THE 4E MENACE!!!''' --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 10:28, 3 December 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::So... tempted... to burn.... withholding... vote til I can... stop talking... like... Shatner... -- [[User:Eiji|Eiji]] 14:49, 11 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
== New Look ==<br />
<br />
I feel that it is high time that we had a new look for the [[Main Page]], for a number of reasons. One is to make it easier for the average user to understand how D&D Wiki is organized, another is so the [[Main Page]] looks nicer. Below is my proposed idea, which is still in the works. Also, I have a couple of questions about it. One, should we use DPL2C to determine the number of items in an area. For example around <DPL2C><br />
category=DnD<br />
order=ascending<br />
</DPL2C> items exist in [[Dungeons and Dragons]], should we display that below? Also, should we have bullets in front of the link to [[Dungeons and Dragons]], the [[System Reference Document]], etc? Does it look better or worse with them present? Finally, how is the wording of everything? What could be improved? (P.S. the below idea is not mine, it was stolen from [[User:Sledged|Sledged]]'s hard work making [[Dungeons and Dragons]] look nice&mdash;I do not want to take credit which I do not deserve) --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:23, 1 November 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:Yea, the above does look much nicer than the current Main Page, and I do agree it needs an update. As for showing how many things you have in each, that's not necessary but is interesting to see that we have 2900 Homebrew Items, if anything that might bring people in to see that this is a pretty big site and not just some random long forgotten website. --[[User:Watsyurname529|Watsyurname529]] 14:33, 1 November 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::I have added the number of items to the new look. Any other ideas? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 15:28, 1 November 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::This definitely clarified what information is contained in the sections. I would agree with implementing it. &mdash; <span style="color:#002137;">[[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] <small> ([[User_talk:Blue Dragon|talk]])</small></span> 15:34, 1 November 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::Let's absolutely add this. The main page definitely needs more information. I like it! &ndash;[[User:EldritchNumen|EldritchNumen]] 16:48, 1 November 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::I think that if we have 3.5e and 4e on this site, we should have the main page sperating out 3.5e and 4e, and pages for 3.5e and 4e like the above. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 11:56, 2 November 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::Yes, I agree. But that can be added once 4E comes out... &ndash;[[User:EldritchNumen|EldritchNumen]] 16:30, 2 November 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::I'm going to implement this now because I think it is so much better (and I want it as soon as possible). Please, though, continue to post comments here about any revisions we could do to make it look better! &ndash;[[User:EldritchNumen|EldritchNumen]] 16:32, 2 November 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::Yeah, I like it. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 04:38, 3 November 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::I removed the "d20M" in that SRD link since it is already under the header of d20M. However, I agree, it looks very good and thanks for implementing it. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:48, 3 November 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
{| cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" class="column"<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
; <big>Dungeons and Dragons</big><br />
* [[Dungeons and Dragons|Homebrew Content]]<div style="font-size: smaller; margin-left: 2em;">New classes, equipment, feats, races, creatures, deities, etc. (<DPL2C><br />
category=DnD<br />
order=ascending<br />
</DPL2C> items)</div><br />
* [[System Reference Document|The System Reference Document]]<div style="font-size: smaller; margin-left: 2em;">Everything published by WotC that we are allowed to have on D&D Wiki. (<DPL2C><br />
category=SRD<br />
order=ascending<br />
</DPL2C> items)</div><br />
; <big>d20 Modern</big><br />
* [[D20 Modern|Homebrew Content]]<div style="font-size: smaller; margin-left: 2em;">New classes, equipment, feats, races, creatures, deities, etc. (<DPL2C><br />
category=D20M<br />
order=ascending<br />
</DPL2C> items)</div><br />
* [[Modern System Reference Document|The System Reference Document]]<div style="font-size: smaller; margin-left: 2em;">Everything published by WotC that we are allowed to have on D&D Wiki. (<DPL2C><br />
category=MSRD<br />
order=ascending<br />
</DPL2C> items)</div><br />
|}<br />
<br />
====Main Page after 4e comes out====<br />
<br />
When 4e does come out, we could change it to this:<br />
<br />
; <big>Dungeons and Dragons</big><br />
* [[Dungeons and Dragons| 3.5e Homebrew Content]] | [[4e Homebrew| 4e Homebrew Content]]<div style="font-size: smaller; margin-left: 2em;">New classes, equipment, feats, races, creatures, deities, etc. (<DPL2C><br />
category=DnD<br />
order=ascending<br />
</DPL2C> items)</div><br />
* [[System Reference Document|The 3.5e System Reference Document]] | [[4e System Reference Doccument|The 4e System Reference Document]] | [[UA:Variant Rules|Unearthed Arcana]]<div style="font-size: smaller; margin-left: 2em;">Everything published by WotC that we are allowed to have on D&D Wiki. (<DPL2C><br />
category=SRD|Unearthed Arcana<br />
order=ascending<br />
</DPL2C> items)</div><br />
<br />
; <big>d20 Modern</big><br />
* [[D20 Modern|Homebrew Content]]<div style="font-size: smaller; margin-left: 2em;">New classes, equipment, feats, races, creatures, deities, etc. (<DPL2C><br />
category=D20M<br />
order=ascending<br />
</DPL2C> items)</div><br />
* [[Modern System Reference Document|The System Reference Document]]<div style="font-size: smaller; margin-left: 2em;">Everything published by WotC that we are allowed to have on D&D Wiki. (<DPL2C><br />
category=MSRD<br />
order=ascending<br />
</DPL2C> items)</div><br />
<br />
Any thoughts? --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 09:23, 23 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:Or this...?<br />
:; <big>Dungeons and Dragons</big><br />
:; Revised 3rd Edition<br />
:* [[Dungeons and Dragons|Homebrew]] <div style="font-size: smaller; margin-left: 2em;">New classes, equipment, feats, races, creatures, deities, etc. (<DPL2C><br />
category=DnD<br />
category=3.5e<br />
order=ascending<br />
</DPL2C> items)</div><br />
:* [[System Reference Document|The System Reference Document]] | [[UA:Variant Rules|Unearthed Arcana]]<div style="font-size: smaller; margin-left: 2em;">Everything published by WotC that we are allowed to have on D&D Wiki. (<DPL2C><br />
category=SRD|Unearthed Arcana<br />
category=3.5e<br />
order=ascending<br />
</DPL2C> items)</div><br />
:; 4th Edition<br />
:* [[4e Homebrew|Homebrew]] <div style="font-size: smaller; margin-left: 2em;">New classes, equipment, feats, races, creatures, deities, etc. (<DPL2C><br />
category=DnD<br />
category=4e<br />
order=ascending<br />
</DPL2C> items)</div><br />
:* [[System Reference Document|The System Reference Document]]<div style="font-size: smaller; margin-left: 2em;">Everything published by WotC that we are allowed to have on D&D Wiki. (<DPL2C><br />
category=SRD<br />
category=4e<br />
order=ascending<br />
</DPL2C> items)</div><br />
<br />
:; <big>d20 Modern</big><br />
:* [[D20 Modern|Homebrew Content]]<div style="font-size: smaller; margin-left: 2em;">New classes, equipment, feats, races, creatures, deities, etc. (<DPL2C><br />
category=D20M<br />
order=ascending<br />
</DPL2C> items)</div><br />
:* [[Modern System Reference Document|The System Reference Document]]<div style="font-size: smaller; margin-left: 2em;">Everything published by WotC that we are allowed to have on D&D Wiki. (<DPL2C><br />
category=MSRD<br />
order=ascending<br />
</DPL2C> items)</div><br />
:--[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 11:17, 23 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::Yeah, that is better than mine. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 06:52, 24 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::Is everyone okay with that look once 4e comes out? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:12, 24 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::I actually prefer Sam's layout although perhaps UA could have it's own line. --[[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 07:36, 5 March 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::I think Green Dragon's looks better. Sorry Sam ''';-)''' --[[User:Daniel Draco|Daniel Draco]] 08:38, 5 March 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::I don't mind. As I said earlier, I prefer GDs. I've had a thought; I think we could, and probably should, put the link to the 4th edition homebrew (and possibly the SRD, though we can't put it up yet, for obvious reasons) on the main page, because, as people in ENworld have proved, we have enough preveiw material from the PHB Lite (derived from the pregenerated characters and rogue preview) to make some powers, the 1st level for classes, and odd things here-and-there. As ENworld is already doing odd bits of 4e homebrew based on previews, we might as well provide a place for it to go now, rather than later. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 10:37, 18 April 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::Please see [[Talk:Main Page#4th Edition Link|below]]. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 00:17, 5 May 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== Should we make CAPTCHA's present after an IP edits? ==<br />
<br />
Recently a high level of automated spam has been attacking D&D Wiki in the form of inserting nonsense and gibberish into random pages. An example would be [[DnD Flaws]] as of 04:08, 1 November 2007 (MDT) as edited by [[Special:Contributions/200.226.134.53|200.226.134.53]] (permanent link [http://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=DnD_Flaws&oldid=159600 here]). I think the easiest way to stop this problem would be to provide [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captcha CAPTCHA's] every time an IP makes an edit. The only reason I am asking this is because I am not sure if it would be more beneficial or more harmful to have CAPTCHA's. Do you guys think that IP's would still correct spelling errors if they had to enter a CAPTCHA or would they deem it to difficult? Would it, even if the amount of edits performed by IP's decreased, be worth it? Any ideas would be appreciated. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:41, 1 November 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:Well, if they were just doing it because they were bored then having to spell the correct word to finalize the edit might prevent some people because they are just waaay to lazy. It would also prevent if anyone wanted to create a bot to spam content. Although, it would be annoying for me to have to do that every time I wanted to say, update my User Page with another new item. If you could disable it for users and not IP's, I think that would be a good try to cut down on the spam. --[[User:Watsyurname529|Watsyurname529]] 14:31, 1 November 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::The CAPTCHA's would ''only'' be for IP edits, not for when a user edits something. Anyway, that would be terrible if a user had to enter a CAPTCHA to edit something (the reason they would not have to is because to create an account one has to enter a CAPTCHA...) Also, as you may have noticed, all the recent spam attackes have been automated, so hopefully if this is implemented it should help with the problem... --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 14:44, 1 November 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::So yea, try it and we'll see if the spam goes down. --[[User:Watsyurname529|Watsyurname529]] 15:24, 1 November 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::I agree with this completely. Should I go ahead and put them in, or should we wait for more users to comment? &mdash; <span style="color:#002137;">[[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] <small> ([[User_talk:Blue Dragon|talk]])</small></span> 15:33, 1 November 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::Go for it ''':)'''. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 15:41, 1 November 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::Yeah. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 11:52, 2 November 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::Okay, it has been added. &mdash; <span style="color:#002137;">[[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] <small> ([[User_talk:Blue Dragon|talk]])</small></span> 20:50, 2 November 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::For some odd reason, i have had a captcha come up after all my edits today, despite the fact the captcha is only supposed to come up when an IP edits something (and I am logged in). Why is this, and can someone sort it please? Thanks. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 05:03, 3 November 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::This should not be happening. I would recommend doing the following: log out, clear your browser cache, clear your browser history, clear all cookies relating to D&D Wiki, restart your browser, and then log back in and see if it is still giving you troubles. If it is, then I will definitely look into this problem further. I am sorry for the inconvenience that this is causing you, and will try to get it sorted out as soon as is possible. &mdash; <span style="color:#002137;">[[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] <small> ([[User_talk:Blue Dragon|talk]])</small></span> 13:50, 3 November 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::::It has not worked. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 15:39, 3 November 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::Maybe you're an IP in disguise... ''':P'''. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 16:17, 4 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::::::::Err... no. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 11:55, 5 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::::Okay... Can I change your password (through the database) and login as you to asses the problem? I would like to see what is happening and hopefully give [[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] enough information to fix this very strange problem. Would this be okay with you? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:41, 5 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
{{Discussion Indentation Revert}}<br />
<br />
:Yeah, sure. Can you change my password back afterwards though, please? Thanks. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 08:11, 6 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::Am I the only one getting the problem? --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 08:23, 6 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::No, I also experienced this today with my edits. Although, I'm behind a corporate firewall here, so I don't know if that has anything to do with it. --[[User:Skwyd|Skwyd]] 09:25, 6 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::No, I've gotten one after every edit I've made, even if it was just adding one letter. --[[User:Watsyurname529|Watsyurname529]] 14:15, 6 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::Oops... I guess the setting was set so sysops were the only ones who did not have to give a CAPTCHA whereas everyone else did. The issue should now be fixed, and sorry about that... --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:22, 6 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::Much better. ''':D''' Now I can reformate the equipment section in peace. Which as an update I've finished nearly all the back to footers and have all but the magic weapons and over half the wondrous items updated to the MIC format. --[[User:Watsyurname529|Watsyurname529]] 20:42, 6 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::Yeah, sorted. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 11:59, 7 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::::Glad to hear it ''':)'''. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:44, 7 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
== Move towards new DPL ==<br />
<br />
Hello all, this site is running on a very outdated version of DPL, which has caused several hacks to have to be thrown together, and is potentially not allowing things to get done. When I upgraded this wiki to v11, I upgraded DPL as well, but most all pages that used DPL immediately stopped working. Is there an interest for me to get a test wiki running, and people can figure out how the DPL should be working, and then implement it? Or should we instead stick with what we have and wait until we really need the next version? &mdash; <span style="color:#002137;">[[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] <small> ([[User_talk:Blue Dragon|talk]])</small></span> 15:07, 7 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:I honestly have no idea what the DPL is. So could someone tell me what it is and/or what it does? Then I could answer your questions. --[[User:Watsyurname529|Watsyurname529]] 15:27, 7 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::What are the new features of the new DPL version? For most purposes, the DPLs seem to be working well, but I know we've especially had to hack some DPL2 stuff. Would the new version fix this? [Watsyurname529, DPLs are dynamically assembled lists generally based off of category tags, e.g. [http://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=User_Base_Classes&action=edit this code] yields [http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/User_Base_Classes this page].] &ndash;[[User:EldritchNumen|EldritchNumen]] 18:21, 7 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::I feel that we should implement the new dpl version. The DPL2 (at least according to [[User:Sledged|Sledged]]) would make it so we would not need three main different modifications of the dpl to be running on this site, the dpl, dplc, and the dpl2c (full list [[Special:Version|here]]). I think it would help D&D Wiki greatly to implement the newest version of the dpl, and make things easier for a new user to understand. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:48, 7 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::There's a demo site for DPL with a manual [http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=Main_Page here].<br />
::::Is there a way to get a list of all the pages using dpl*? —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 16:29, 8 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::[[MediaWiki:Pages using DPL]] is what True Orphans uses. &mdash; <span style="color:#002137;">[[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] <small> ([[User_talk:Blue Dragon|talk]])</small></span> 18:17, 8 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::It's only listing the pages in the main/default namespace. What about the SRD pages? —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 14:58, 13 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::The extension that page is for specifically excludes all SRD dpl pages, so those have never been added to that dpl list. We will have to compile a list on our own for SRD pages. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:54, 14 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::::I see. Also, when I said "pages using <tt>dpl*</tt>," I meant also the <tt>dpl2c</tt>, <tt>dplc</tt>, and <tt>dpl2cu</tt> tags. I don't see any of the pages using those tags listed. If those pages can be identified before hand, it'll make an upgrade a bit easier. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 12:48, 15 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::To answer [[User:EldritchNumen|EldritchNumen]]'s first question. This wiki is running version 0.7.7 of DPL2. The latest version is 1.5.2, so there is a significant number of changes. For brevity, I'll just list a few of the new features that apply to this wiki:<br />
:::*You can specify your own format for the output. For example you could list each result as a row in a table instead of getting the standard three column output.<br />
:::*In conjunction with the previous feature, DPL2 pull content from the listed pages for displaying as part of the output.<br />
:::*You can get results based on pages names and page content in addition to categories and namespaces. For instance, all the [[DnD Prestige Classes|user PrCs]] are assigned to the category beginning with the first letter of the page title. Those categories can be completely removed because DPL2 lets you return pages whose title's first letter matches one specified in the DPL2 call.<br />
:::*DPL2 can used to compensate for user error. Broken links like the one titled "Anima and Animus Mage" on the [[DnD Prestige Classes|user PrCs page]] can be eliminated.<br />
:::*With the latest version of DPL2 (an one other specific extension) users can create spell/feat/monster/etc filters like the one seen [http://www.penpaperpixel.org/tools/d20spellfilter/ here].<br />
:::*It can be used as a parser function (which I personally prefer over tags).<br />
:::*Pages that are linked to only from DPL calls are not listed as [[Special:Lonelypages|orphaned pages]].<br />
:::—[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 14:58, 13 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::Okay, lets do it. What are the changes that need to be made to dpl pages to make this not be broken when implemented? What is the best way of going about this change? Should we change the pages first, then implement it, or implement it then fix all the errors on the dpl pages? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:54, 14 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::There's one more complication to take into consideration; All the pages with the <tt>dpl*</tt> mod tags (<tt>dpl2c</tt>, <tt>dplc</tt>, and <tt>dpl2cu</tt>) have to be changed, not just list pages. So we'll have to go through all the class pages (base, prestige, npc, and racial paragon) and NPC pages. I think Blue's suggestion of a test wiki is the best way to do it. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 12:48, 15 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::It might not be necessary to set up a test wiki. I [http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=Issue:No_More_Globals submitted a request] over at the [http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=Main_Page DPL2 site] to transition all the globals to class members. If Gero decides to adopt it, the latest version and the currently installed version can be installed side-by-side without one conflicting with the other. The only caveat is that the line that reads<br />
<br />
::::::<pre>$wgParser->setHook( "DPL", array( __CLASS__, "dplTag" ) );</pre><br />
<br />
::::::in the new version will have to be commented out. This will disable using new version as a tag extension, but it will still be available as a parser function call; <tt>{<nowiki/>{#dpl:}}</tt>. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 12:23, 21 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::And [http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=Main_Page DPL2] version 1.6.0 (no more globals) has been released. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 09:42, 25 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::::Okay, I upgraded to the latest version. Let me know if there are any errors. &mdash; <span style="color:#002137;">[[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] <small> ([[User_talk:Blue Dragon|talk]])</small></span> 12:18, 25 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
=== A Small Sample ===<br />
<br />
So here's a sample list of the user base classes, which I've limited to the 'A's:<br />
<br />
{| class="d20" style="text-align: left;"<br />
|+ Homebrew Base Classes with Descriptions<br />
|- {{#vardefine:odd|0}}<br />
! Name !! style="text-align: center;" | Balance<sup>[[#1|1]]</sup> (out of 10) !! Type<sup>[[#2|2]]</sup> !! Description<sup>[[#3|3]]</sup><br />
{{#dpl:category=DnD<br />
|titlematch=A%<br />
|category=User<br />
|category=Base Class<br />
|include={Balance}:1,{x0}:type:desc<br />
|mode=userformat<br />
|format=,¦- ²{#vardefine:odd¦²{#ifexpr: ²{#var:odd}²¦0¦1}²}²²{#ifexpr: ²{#var:odd}²¦¦class="even"}²\n¦ [[%PAGE%¦²{#replace:%PAGE%¦(DnD Class)¦}²]]\n,,<br />
|tablerow=¦style="text-align: center;" ¦ ²{#if: %%¦%%¦NR}²,\n¦%%,%%\n<br />
}}|-<br />
| colspan="7" class="foot" |<br />
# <span id="1">Shows how balanced a certain Class is, the number is out of 10. The Balance rating is from the actual Class's page; it is not made on this page. More information [[Balance System|here]].</span><br />
# <span id="2">A general category the Class fits into. e.g. Strong Spellcasting, Combat Focused, etc.</span><br />
# <span id="3"> A concise description of the Class-- should advertise the Class.</span><br />
|}<br />
—[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 13:59, 27 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:I like it ''':)'''. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 21:27, 29 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:: The Alchemist... I don't know if i would consider it a spell caster --[[User:Cerin616|Cerin616, Drew]] 15:58, 11 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::Better now? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:20, 11 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
== 4,000th Item! ==<br />
<br />
Whoo! I just posted the 4,000th homebrew item on this site! Amazing how much stuff we've got on here. Just want to say congrats to everyone who's posted/edited here. Also here is the 4,000th item: [[Fried Frying Pan (DnD Equipment)|Fried Frying Pan]] --[[User:Watsyurname529|Watsyurname529]] 15:29, 7 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:If that number is correct.... ''':P'''. I think we may actually have more, they are just not categorized (that number is actually the number of items in [[:Category:DnD]]). Although, I agree. Congratulations all! --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:51, 7 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::Hey, it says 4000 Items on the main page and that's good enough for me ''':P''' to you too, lol. --[[User:Watsyurname529|Watsyurname529]] 20:56, 7 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::Meh... ''':)'''. Also, if you want to make that number more accurate please take a look at the [[Special:TrueOrphans|TrueOrphans]] (which may not be true&mdash;I think [[MediaWiki:Pages_using_DPL]] needs to be updated...). However, feel free to categorize those things and, overall, make things on D&D Wiki be linked to! --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 21:14, 7 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
==Sidebar Change==<br />
Dungeons and Dragons or Homebrew?<br />
<br />
The side bar has an option called "Dungeons and Dragons" that takes you to the Homebrew section. This seems to me to be misleading and should be changed to "Homebrew." This is not that big of a deal, but it would be more consistant. --[[User:Mander|Mander]] 15:09, 18 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:Actually, there's more than just homebrew material there (though the vast majority of it is homebrew). It also contains OGC from source books like ''Unearthed Arcana'', ''Relics and Rituals'', ''Creature Collection'', ''Monster Manual II'', and such. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 12:38, 21 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::Currently on the [[Main Page]] we call that entire section "Homebrew Content" even though it has more than just that (as [[User:Sledged|Sledged]] pointed out above). If we want to be nitpicky, that is also a problem. Anyway, the reason it is called "Dungeons and Dragons" on the sidebar is that the sidebar cannot have any real wiki-syntax. The ideal organization for that would be something like:<br />
::D&D<br />
:::[[Dungeons and Dragons|Homebrew]] (even though it's not all homebrew...)<br />
:::[[System Reference Document|SRD]]<br />
::D20M<br />
:::[[D20 Modern|Homebrew]] (even though it's not all homebrew...)<br />
:::[[Modern System Reference Document|MSRD]]<br />
::However, that is not possible. Since that is not possible we try to do the best we can, and that is the current way. Actually, this post has given me an idea... Maybe another box, labeled "D&D" and one labeled "D20M" could exist, with the links in them... --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 14:43, 25 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::I just changed it. What does everyone think? Better? Worse? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 14:45, 25 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::I dont mean to be picky. I also dont mean to make extra work for ya all. I just through out ideas when I have them. I like the change, but I also like the reasons given above for why it was the way it was. That is why I like wiki format. I hardly ever make changes, but I do add my ideas to disscution.--[[User:Mander|Mander]] 22:44, 29 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::I hesitate to bring it up, but I think it might be worth mentioning; The D&D section could be split up into "homebrew" and "published OGC" sections. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 12:07, 30 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::First off you were not a bother at all, [[User:Mander|Mander]]. The sidebar is very easy to change and it's always great to improve things. Anyway, I feel that as soon as we have enough published OGC material (we are reaching it though, if one counts NBoF as "published") then we should definitely spit "DnD" up into published OGC and Homebrew. However, right now I do not think we have enough... Maybe when all the UA material is posted we can give it a shot, but until then I do not think we have enough OGC content. Your thoughts? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:48, 4 December 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::: So many acronyms, so few ranks in knowlege-acronyms...--[[User:Mander|Mander]] 01:30, 5 December 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::Age of the internet. Soon everything we be reduced to acronyms, IMHO. [[Help:FAQ#What are OGL, OGC, SRD, and GNU FPL?|OGC]], [http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/welcome DnD], [http://datadeco.com/nbofeats/ NBoF], and [http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/881560000 UA] (which I really should finish transcribing). —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 02:31, 5 December 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::::::Actually, speaking of acronyms, it would be helpful to have a list of all the D&D acronyms in [[DnD Other]] (I am sure a list exists on the internet, it just needs to be copied over). Also, sorry about using all those acronyms above. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 16:31, 5 December 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
New question: Shouldn't the [[UA:Variant Rules|UA Transcript]] be linked in the sidebar? -- [[User:OptimizationFanatic|OptimizationFanatic]] 17:02, 16 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:It should. What should we call it, Unearthed Arcana, UA, Variant SRD, or what? Ideas? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:48, 16 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::Maybe UA: Variants? -- [[User:OptimizationFanatic|OptimizationFanatic]] 08:34, 17 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::: Or "UA Variant Rules." Either one works for me. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 11:00, 17 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::I have added it. Does it look okay? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:45, 18 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::Looks great! -- [[User:OptimizationFanatic|OptimizationFanatic]] 17:01, 21 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
== Maps? ==<br />
<br />
:''Discussion moved to [[Talk:Dungeons and Dragons#New Section: Maps?]]<small> It dealt with Homebrew specific material, not everything on the site --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:52, 4 December 2007 (MST)</small><br />
<br />
== Tavern Schedule ==<br />
<br />
Should a small Tavern Schedule be placed on the main page on the right side (floating)? &mdash; <span style="color:#002137;">[[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] <small> ([[User_talk:Blue Dragon|talk]])</small></span> 15:40, 15 January 2008 (MST)<br />
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:I think this is a good idea to increase use of the tavern, but it would be best if days that already had events planned were highlighted, a different text color, the only days with links, etc. They need to stand out; otherwise, I have to click each day to even see if there is anything that day. It almost seems to me that a mini-program/extension is needed to code that to make it more useful... still, the calendar is a great idea. That is the best suggestion I have heard to increase usage of the tavern. &ndash;[[User:EldritchNumen|EldritchNumen]] 16:35, 15 January 2008 (MST)<br />
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::The days that have events are blue. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:43, 15 January 2008 (MST)<br />
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:::Much better. I like it. &ndash;[[User:EldritchNumen|EldritchNumen]] 20:24, 15 January 2008 (MST)<br />
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== New Logo ==<br />
<br />
{| align="right" class="d20"<br />
|-<br />
! Submitted Logos:<br />
|-<br />
| ''Please submit your own logo!''<br/>[[dndmedia:Special:Upload|Upload it!]]<br />
|-<br />
| [[Image:D&D logo-test1.png|frame|From Maria C.]]<br />
|-<br />
| [[Image:D&D logo-test2.png|frame|From [[User:Xidoraven|Xidoraven]]]]<br />
|-<br />
| [[Image:D&D logo-test3.png|frame|Variation 1]]<br />
|-<br />
| [[Image:D&D logo-test4.png|frame|Variation 2]]<br />
|-<br />
| [[Image:Logo.png|frame|Current logo]]<br />
|}<br />
<br />
=== Official Updates ===<br />
<br />
Here is what will happen. A two week submission period will start now, after this time when more logos or variations have been submitted, a one week voting period will take place. So, right now, please upload all the variations of these logos or your own D&D Wiki logo and in two weeks time the D&D Wiki community will decide what the logo will become. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:57, 26 January 2008 (MST)<br />
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:The voting for which logo should become D&D Wiki's logo will start February 9th. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:13, 29 January 2008 (MST)<br />
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=== Voting ===<br />
<br />
{| class="d20" style="text-align: left;"<br />
|+ New Logo &mdash; Voting (Please use "#" and extra lines to separate votes)<br />
! [[Image:D&D logo-test1.png]]<br />
! [[Image:D&D logo-test2.png]]<br />
! [[Image:D&D logo-test3.png]]<br />
! [[Image:D&D logo-test4.png]]<br />
! [[Image:Logo.png]]<br />
|-<br />
! From Maria C.<br />
! From [[User:Xidoraven|Xidoraven]]<br />
! Variation 1<br />
! Variation 2<br />
! Current logo<br />
|-<br />
| <br />
#<br />
| <br />
# [[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]]<br />
# [[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]]<br />
# [[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]]<br />
# [[User:Daniel Draco|Daniel Draco]]<br />
# [[User:Young DM|Young DM]]<br />
# [[User:Arohanui|Arohanui]]<br />
# [[User:Othtim|Othtim]]<br />
# [[User:Mask man|Mask man]]<br />
# [[User:kreik|kreik]]<br />
# [[User:EaTCarbS|EaTCarbS]]<br />
# [[User:Lordsnarf|Lordsnarf]]<br />
| <br />
#[[User:Silver Dragon|Silver Dragon]]<br />
| <br />
#[[User:Hawk|Hawk]]<br />
#[[User:Pirate-Sorcerer|Pirate-Sorcerer]]<br />
#[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]]<br />
#[[Summerscythe]]<br />
#[[User:Wackymynd|Wackymynd]]<br />
#[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]]<br />
#[[User:EldritchNumen|EldritchNumen]]<br />
| <br />
#<br />
|}<br />
<br />
Everyone agree that we have reached a consensus? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 23:16, 24 February 2008 (MST)<br />
:Looks like we have to me 11/1/6 Xidoraven has a pretty big lead. [[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 23:40, 24 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::I believe that the vote looks pretty definitive. Please let me know if anyone ever gives you problems from Wizards.com or Hasbro, Inc. I am currently working with them in a professional capacity, so I will be able to speak for my work myself, and in direct communications to them. If they want my business, they will not harass this site for being loyal consumers and fans of a popular product line. Best of wishes to you all.<br />
::GD, if you have any more input on what we talked about before, please let me know by email. I am having a hard time getting back here to check on my pages right now. -- [[User:Xidoraven|xido]] 08:03, 25 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::Changed. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 21:24, 26 February 2008 (MST)<br />
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::::Looks good, everyone. Thanks for the support, and let me know if you need any other design ideas, since you may feel the need in the future to reconsider color usage, etc. Are there any ideas for what would be placed in the background area, if not the current Player's Handbook image? -- [[User:Xidoraven|xido]] 00:39, 11 March 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
=== General Discussion on Submitted Logos ===<br />
<br />
We have had two submissions for a new logo. One of them is from [[User:Xidoraven|Xidoraven]], and the other is from Maria C. Both of them are shown below, and we should decide to either keep the current logo or change to one of these. Please leave feedback. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 15:04, 23 January 2008 (MST)<br />
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:I like the second one. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 15:05, 23 January 2008 (MST)<br />
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::I vote for Xidoraven's. I like colorful. --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 15:06, 23 January 2008 (MST)<br />
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:::I wonder what the first would look like with a bit more color. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 15:10, 23 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::I really like the dragon on the first logo, however I feel that the wording on that logo may be a little hard to read. So, I think it may look very nice if both the trial logos were merged into one. The "D&D Wiki" would be cut out of the first logo and the "D&D Wiki" text from xido's image would be pasted over it, albeit a little smaller. Does anyone think this idea has some merit? Is it worth exploring further? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 15:35, 23 January 2008 (MST)<br />
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:::::Variation 2 is great! I give that my vote. --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 16:23, 23 January 2008 (MST)<br />
:::::On second thought... I like Variation 1. Arrrg... It is difficult because the logo seems too big with the dragon, yet too small at the same time. --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 16:24, 23 January 2008 (MST)<br />
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::::::I like variation 2, except the logo should be moved a bit down and right so that the entire graphic is a bit more square (lest the words encroach on the dragon picture)... &ndash;[[User:EldritchNumen|EldritchNumen]] 06:06, 24 January 2008 (MST)<br />
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:::::::Variation 2 OR Xidoravens. Either way, it's really cool! A new logo for a new edition... --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 06:46, 24 January 2008 (MST)<br />
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::::::::Variation 2 has me as well. Also, if anyone wants to compile their own variation or make their own logo please do! We need all the options we can get! --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 17:56, 24 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::My wife votes Xidoravens ''':P'''. I'm actually really not sure. I like Variation 1, 2, and Xidoravens... Perhaps we should set up an official vote? --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 18:01, 24 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::::::Is there going to be an "official vote" (whatever that may mean)? Variation 2 is my preferences, and I agree that it would likely look even better with the dragon picked out in red and gold. Also, whichever one is chosen, is it kosher for me to slap the logo up places (such as my blog) linking back to the wiki, as a means of promotion? --[[User:Arohanui|Arohanui]] 01:03, 26 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::I've gotta agree, but with xido's colors, I wouldn't mind seeing the dragon colored as a [[SRD:Half-Dragon|half-gold dragon]] [[SRD:Red Dragon|red dragon]]. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 21:39, 24 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::::::::First off I agree, if the dragon was given some color this entire logo could come out very sharp. Secondly, xido, tell me if I am wrong. You are basically saying that you would be okay to work with the dragon image if Maria C. has the same intentions you have of modifying D&D iconic images for a good cause. Since I cannot speak for Maria C. I will contact her and ask her to join this discussion to help discuss her logo and the final outcome of D&D Wiki's logo. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 00:19, 25 January 2008 (MST)<br />
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:::::::::::::I agree with Blue Dragon. As for my vote for the logos, I like the two combinations, particularly the second one. -- [[User:OptimizationFanatic|OptimizationFanatic]] 09:37, 26 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
{{Discussion Indentation Revert}}<br />
<br />
:I also have to say, I really like the dragon in the middle of Xido's logo. I think that using his for the top logo, and then Maria's for a softer logo, potentially on the main page, could be used. However, I feel that a voting period should exist. &mdash; <span style="color:#002137;">[[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] <small> ([[User_talk:Blue Dragon|talk]])</small></span> 10:30, 26 January 2008 (MST)<br />
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::Definitely Version two and It shouldn't be changed a bit the black and white dragon behind the blazing dnd wiki looks awesome but as a second choice id go for Xidoraven's logo by itself<br />
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:::I like Xidoraven's original logo. [[User:Kimmuriel|Kimmuriel]] 18:39, 14 February 2008 (MST)<br />
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:::: Xidoraven for prez! --[[User:Othtim|Othtim]]<br />
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:::::I would make a terrible president. I would prefer project coordinator, or community shaman, but not something as pop-culture as presidente. ;) -- [[User:Xidoraven|xido]] 07:18, 16 February 2008 (MST)<br />
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Okay, how do i put my name on variation 2, that my fav :D - [[User:Zombiecow|Zombiecow]]<br />
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=== Authors Comments and Discussion ===<br />
<br />
Font size is highly important in a logo concept, especially when they are sized down this much. I designed the font spacing and proportions with that in mind. Also, though I enjoy the integration of the two (trust me, my inner artist is inspired - not jealous), it seems a little busy, and the dragons look dim compared to the heavy vibrancy I put into the original 4e-based concept. I know it sounds haughty and rude, but I choose my own. If Miss Maria would be willing to revise her concept, I think they would more accurately meld. Her design would need the words removed fully, and would require a splash of color (like a layer over it, that appears like watercolor, or an expressive way of 'filling in the lines'). The logo I created has heavier contrast even than that of the original 4e logo design. I had not anticipated it being integrated with another black-and-white (or blank) portion. Had I known, I might have prepared an alternative. -- [[User:Xidoraven|xido]] 21:30, 24 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:As a second thought: Here's my other dilemma.<br />
:I do not know Miss Maria, but I know that her artwork is based on Lockwood's, and that is a blatant copyright infringement of one of the most controversial materials produced by Wizards: Commissioned Artwork. ([http://wizards.com/dnd/images/MM35_gallery/MM35_PG76.jpg])<br />
:I am well aware of the fact I pulled a concept from 4e D&D corporate design, knowing full well that it might bring a lawsuit upon me. I am also communicating with the makers of Scrabulous (Scrabulous.com) currently, because I feel that what is happening right now with their product is an issue in international business ethics. I openly state that my work is a mere pseudo-forgery of Wizards own internally-produced corporate graphics, but I appreciate and respect Mr. Lockwood for being such a professional artist in his field, and cannot openly condone utilizing his work in our own endeavors. If the piece was just a tad different from the Red Dragon's stance or appearance, I could see over-looking it, but this is something that is necessary for an artist to understand up-front. I openly admit to pirating the official 4e logo design from Wizards for a good cause, but I would hope that Miss Maria would be able to do the same in her position.<br />
:That being said, the general concensus on what constitutes 'unique artwork' is at least 15% difference from the original piece. Though she has flipped the image on its vertical axis, and turned detailed painting into rough black outlines, I would think it would need just a ''tad'' more work done to it to be considered anything other than outright plagiarism. If Miss Maria is aware of my own intentions, and has the same goals of her own, then I can look the other way. I would prefer to go down alone if I am to go down as an artist. At least this way, no one can say that you paid me for my services, but that I instead gave them openly as a professional operating in the open-source markets under the GNU license.<br />
:That's my last piece. -- [[User:Xidoraven|xido]] 22:09, 24 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::Hello, this is Maria. First of all, I am not Miss Maria as you have taken a fancy of calling me. Second, I created this wood engraving without the knowledge of what's copyrighted and what is not. Green Dragon is family friend and has been nagging me for months to create a logo understanding that I am a graphic design artist. He handed me d&d books and asked me to make a logo. So I choose something cool, changed it, carved it, printed it, modified it on the computer. Green Dragon did not give any advice for this, only that it needed to be done. I wasn't told of anything so I am sorry for the copyright infringement. I also created this logo not for a profit such, but for this 'community' which may be considered a good cause since I get not one thing out of it. And xudo, you need to work on being respectful. You seem jealous that someone else has submitted artwork and that you aren't the only one with fame. 'Artists' are so competitive and always trying to be the best with their noses in the air. -Maria {{Unsigned|Xuthukzaklath|15:16, 25 January 2008 (MST)}}<br />
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:::As a friendly site note to all, I vote that the attacks should stop. This should be a logo design competition in which '''the best''' logo is chosen. There is no need to either of the creators to bicker. &mdash; <span style="color:#002137;">[[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] <small> ([[User_talk:Blue Dragon|talk]])</small></span> 09:35, 26 January 2008 (MST)<br />
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::::I highly agree, BD.<br />
::::I just wanted to make my comments publicly known. I have absolutely no problem with the mods of this site asking multiple artists for their ideas. I am glad that you have put forward as well. That is how professional art works. Everyone puts forward what they have to give, and then the leaders decide which works best for what they'd like to portray the project. In this case, there were two options, plus the idea of combining. I have not a single problem with any of those ideas, and in fact wish for the mods to make their own decision. As an artist, I may seem biased. In fact, my words (including the word 'blatant') may have had a negative ring or tone to them, but I assure you that my mental inflection did not.<br />
::::I only want to make everyone aware that I have taken multiple considerations into effect in stealing elements of Hasbro's corporate logo in order to promote this open-source site's mission of helping the public. I have a SERIOUS issue with Hasbro & Mattel's current intellectual property campaign at the moment, as well as their business ethics toward third-party producers of copyrighted content. This is because of the legal drama happening with Scrabulous.com. It is for this reason that I am openly providing my professional services to the mods of this site, in order to help them, just as you, Maria, have done. I respect your position and comments. Please just know that I wanted my input to be put out there, in case you were not aware of the legal implications of that particularly recognizable image (the red dragon literally is '''''the most''''' reproduced dragon in D&D as of this year, in terms of rulebook, supplemental, and related material to the D&D brand line. To utilize this image would be a very risky and potentially harmful venture. That is my only point here. If you are okay with that risk, I am okay with it. But please note that the reasons for THAT piracy is not in any way the same as the professional stance I am making by utilizing corporate branding material from Hasbro, as opposed to the very highly recognizable works of Mr. Lockwood, whom I revere admirably as an artist.<br />
::::On a sidenote, I assumed that being a Maria, that you are a female. I could be wrong here. In the state of Louisiana, where I have recently moved to, it is customary for men in particular to respectfully call a woman of any form (whether married, divorced, single, or otherwise) 'Miss Whoever'. I was merely trying to be courteous. I hope I have not offended. That was not my intent.<br />
::::Thanks for understanding, all, and I hope that the Mods can make an adequate decision on the logo design. I would not like to seem biased, so I will leave it all up to you, having said my piece. Best wishes, -- [[User:70.172.234.38|70.172.234.38]] 19:59, 10 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::PS - I don't want to seem pushy, but I have always had a hard time voting on this site. Perhaps making a username profile on Elftown.com, and seeing the way their own polls are set up might give you ideas for future changes. Privacy features, public features, wiki-features, and a pseudo-html are all able to be used there. I have had some really good success with hosting polls on Elftown to get input or for contests of any multiple-choice form. -- [[User:70.172.234.38|70.172.234.38]] 19:59, 10 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
=== Legality of Images ===<br />
<br />
As to the copyright issues, I believe that the background of our skin is a WoTC copyrighted image. I feel that if we receive a cease and desist letter they will be removed, but beyond that, I feel that it should not be a major issue. Also, I have another interesting idea. I think that Xidoraven's is powerful, and in that sense alone looks quite nice. Would there be any major consideration to have the background of the main page be this dragon, or something similar? A watermark, so to speak? The second combination could also potentially be modified by Xidoraven, seeing that he would know what to do for D&D Wiki's purposes. &mdash; <span style="color:#002137;">[[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] <small> ([[User_talk:Blue Dragon|talk]])</small></span> 09:40, 26 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:Actually, both the skin and the logos would be covered under the free use clause of international copyright law, as it is neither being used to make money nor infringes the copyright holder's ability to sell goods. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 10:53, 26 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::Sam, I just want to say a quick word about free use (I know you like it, so I won't be too harsh). Essentially, the clause is the "wiggle room" in an otherwise extremely strict copyright law and allows for things like academic criticism, etc. However, exactly what constitues "fair use" and what constitutes "unfair use" is loosely defined in the law, and it is important that you know that the United States judicial system has historically ruled very strictly against those parties who (in their eyes) abuse the clause. So, we should tread a bit softly. However, as was said above, if we (Green Dragon, actually) is issued a cease and desist order from any company (such as those owning HALO and LotR, for example, or especially from Hasbro) then we will have to delete the content. Basically, I just want it to be noted that fair use is limited, especially within the widely respected bounds of legal precedent, so don't be too sure that certain images, etc. can be freely used under "fair use." Further, the likelyhood of abuse increases as more information is added. Thus, if I were to quote a line from the PHB as evidence in an argument, that would certainly pass litmus. The more direct and derivative information that is added, though, the more likely it is that infringement will ensue. (Please also note that all material and information derived from a copyrighted source is also [partially] owned by that source, which includes information and rules we might create for use in, for example, the HALO setting). A final note: Wizards of the Coast is renowned for its aggressive pursual in copyright infringement cases after inherited issues involving TSR, Palladium, and certain other companies, a historical precedent that everyone here should be aware of. In any case, please keep in mind that so long as there are no legal actions served we should be okay (this site is not for profit thus far, though if we begin to earn revenue from advertising this will importantly change), but&mdash;if the issue comes to a head&mdash; we will most definitely be on the losing side and will have to remove content or face court action. &ndash;[[User:EldritchNumen|EldritchNumen]] 09:22, 29 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::I was aware of that. I had to do quite abit of research into it when I did LotR. I do think, however, that as there are Wikias for both LotR and Halo, neither of which have yet been sued, the CSs in question should be fine. Although the dragon thing is a definatly something we should think over carefully. Although, as we are only considering a logo, the risk is small (I think). So, yes, those things are fine for now and we can remove them if we get into trouble. The biggest problem with free use is definatly it's vagueness. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 10:05, 29 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
== Protection of Pages ==<br />
<br />
You know this isnt much of a wiki since everything is editblocked.if someone vandalizes a page u REVERT it [[User:Zau|Zau]] 03:12, 29 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:? Of course we revert it! Why should we let our work be spoiled by vandal? All wiki's revert vandallism. The point of a wiki is to work together to improve the whole thing, rather than to reck the whole thing by vandalism. And about those editblocked pages- those are mostly SRD, which is official material that we aren't allowed to whimsically edit. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 06:49, 29 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::I have unlocked this page to IP edits, we will see what happens. Also, the SRD's protection is up in the air right now, if all goes well with the new UA material on D&D Wiki (which, even though it is OGC, is only protected from IP edits) then the SRD may very well become protected only from IP edits as well. If you are referring to specific GNU FLD homebrew pages that are protected, they are only protected because the author of the page is question has asked them to be protected. They will never become un-protected unless the author wishes this to happen. I hope this helps answer your question as to why so many pages on D&D Wiki are protected. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:03, 29 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
== Index of True Dragons ==<br />
<br />
:''Discussion moved to [[Talk:True Dragon Index#Location?]]<small> as it dealt with that page. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:25, 8 February 2008 (MST)</small><br />
<br />
== Published Settings ==<br />
<br />
Hi I was wondering does anyone know whether it would be legal to publish information about old dnd settings on here or homebrew stuff for those settings ie: planescape or spelljammer? also would it be legal to do the same for the still in print settings like forgotten realms and eberron? and would anyone else be interested in stuff like this? [[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 22:42, 7 February 2008 (MST)<br />
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:New settings = no. Not allowed, as they aren't under the OGL (I think...). Old ones I'm not sure about. -- [[User:OptimizationFanatic|OptimizationFanatic]] 22:28, 8 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::Probably not. The old stuff isn't under the OGL. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 13:03, 10 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::If it is licensed under the [[OGL]] please add them, however I do not think any of them are... --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 23:43, 10 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::I'm pretty sure It is technically not allowed unless we want to make fun of them in which case it falls under fair use in the copyright acts of the world lol. Does anyone know how we could find out for sure? [[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 06:42, 11 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::They cannot be added. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:08, 11 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
== Semantic MediaWiki ==<br />
<br />
I do not pretend to understand this nor what it would take to implement but would it be possible to use something like [http://ontoworld.org/wiki/Semantic_MediaWiki] to create forms to make adding entries for new users easier. there are a number of entries that need to be formatted if a form formatted the entries for them this problem may be fixed. Although it would only help at page creation its a start. Any thoughts?<br />
<br />
I should point out the form wouldn't replace editing the code directly just allow another option for those who have no idea how to format. Which means those who like to stare down the face of a page of code (myself included) could still do so. [[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 02:25, 10 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:I've briefly grazed over that extension, and I've yet to take it for a test run, but I think you're right that there may be some useful nuggets along with the semantic forms extension (which requires semantic wiki). I'd been meaning to ask [[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] or [[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] to take it for a spin in development environments and give input on it. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 10:36, 10 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::I think it would be useful only problem is that it needs to be added to dnd wiki then someone has to make the forms, it's a fair amount of work. [[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 21:29, 10 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantic_MediaWiki About]. Not sure if this is really what we are looking for... It, as far as I can tell, would just help with dynamic categories and act a little like the dpl2c feature we currently use. I think an external script for adding things (as [[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] is working on) may be a better option. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 23:10, 10 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::My apologies I was unclear on what I meant I'm lucky Sledged knew what I meant. Its not the semantic wiki itself that I am interested in but the [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Semantic_Forms Semantic forms extension]. As far as I understand it it allows you to 'simply' create a form to fill out and will take care of the wiki coding for you. If you scroll down to the Special Pages heading and look at the examples it will give you a better idea of what this is. [[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 23:24, 10 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::I agree with you, that is a very interesting extension, and I could see it being very useful here on D&D Wiki. The only problem I see is that, although impressive, it requires a Semantic Wiki as a prerequisite. I am not sure I would want D&D Wiki to become a Semantic Wiki, although the decision is not mine it is the communities. Maybe someone could change the code so a Semantic Wiki is not needed and it can work within the normal MediaWiki environment? That would make it quite a bit more appealing ''':)'''. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 00:59, 11 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::I have not read all the material and probably wouldn't understand most of it anyway I believe it would be beyond my ken, my knowledge of wikis and php is limited. What would be involved in implementing this do you think? What would 'becoming a semantic wiki' do? You seem to have reservations I'm just wondering if there are draw backs you foresee? [[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 06:25, 11 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::I gave a look at Semantic Wiki and I think it is a great idea. In my experience as a technical writer, duplication of information is one of the Prime Evils. Namely, here was the criteria that led me to really want to add dpl to races and now feats:<br />
:::::::*All information about a particular topic should be in the same location.<br />
:::::::*Updating information should update other pages that use that information.<br />
:::::::Where I work, we use a form of documentation source files called DocBook. DocBook is much like this wiki where information must be repeated because there is no inclusion mechanism. There is another form of documentation source, which we are considering switching to after the next release of our software. This format is called Dita. Dita allows you to segment information into sections which can be included directly by other pages. This concept is partially similar to Semantic Wiki, but I would argue, less powerful. Semantic Wiki allows you to tag information as a particular type of information. It might be a little more work to create a page, but all of the sudden we have so much more power to categorize our information.<br />
:::::::On a race page, for example, we can have a "quick synopsis" type of data which users would use for a sentence that describes the race. The page could also have an "ability score adjustment" type of data and a "level adjustment" type of data. All of the x0 templates I put on the top of race pages would be unnecessary at this point. The advantage being: if a user updates the source of the race (ie: changes the Ability score adjustments from +2 str to +2 con), it will automatically change the race table without requiring the x0 template at the top of the page to be changed. This means that the information displayed in the tables will always be true to the source.<br />
:::::::The big problem with Semantic Wiki is that it would be a LOT of work from the startup. Probably a few months of work if we want to fully integrate it. So no matter how great I think the idea is, it is probably not a feasible or worthwhile one to integrate.<br />
:::::::Now [[User:Hawk|Hawk]], you seem to be interested in the same thing that I am (and in fact something I have been working on). You want some sort of form based generator that will automatically format the pages after you supply some information. I have almost finished an NPC Generator, which should be promising. I just need to add in spellcasting, epic spellcasting, and special abilities. Forms can always be done directly in php and linked to. --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 07:14, 11 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::::This forms extension allows you to not only create a page but edit it using the forms as far as I can tell. I do not know if your PHP pages can do that but if they do it creates a slight issue on the off chance that someone is editing the page on the wiki and on the form the wiki edit would be wiped over when you save the form as it is working directly with the database (I assume). Where as using this forms extension your still working within the wiki and it will prompt you like normal that there is a conflict (yet again I assume) and the situation can be remedied. I do not know exactly what semantic wiki does but the benefits of the forms extension as I understand them are:<br />
::::::::* Creation and editing of pages through forms<br />
::::::::* Users can create their own forms 'easily'<br />
::::::::* Those new to wiki's can use these forms and the page will be automatically wikified which means very little formating will be required afterwards.<br />
::::::::* The fact your filling in a form rather than code means that it's less daunting for the new user and they are more likly to contribute.<br />
::::::::* Organization of Dnd Wiki can easily be improved as categories can be added automatically to entries by use of the forms.<br />
::::::::[[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 08:01, 11 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::What I have been working is only for initial creation, though at some point I would like to have an "import feature". If we had it all form based, however, people would not learn wiki syntax, which is a powerful syntax in its own right. Is that a bad thing? I'm really not sure. Templates can also automatically add categories though.<br />
:::::::::I still don't understand exactly how a wiki works on the back end, and I am actually going to toy with Media Wiki and Semantic Wiki (with the forms extension) tonight. I will see if I can integrate an application with the wiki directly, while still preserving the wiki ways (as an edit not an overwrite). I will also see how easy it is to create a semantic wiki form. Not that my input is even close to the be-all and end-all of this discussion, but I would like to share what I learn with the community. I hope that Semantic Wiki is very easy to use and the forms feature is as well. Good call making note of it! --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 10:28, 11 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::::::Personally I love coding I'm a nerd I admit it lol, but what it keeps coming down to for me is not everyone does and allowing those people to add and edit their creations on here would be awesome. And the forms extension seems to be the quickest, easiest and most effective way of doing that. Let me know how you go with the testing it will be interesting to see if it performs as well as I am hoping. [[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 10:36, 11 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::Did you end up trying this out Aarnott? [[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 21:09, 21 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::::::::Short answer: yes. Long answer: I think I messed up on the install because I'm getting some strange errors thrown during runtime (like when I access the localhost server). I'm going to uninstall everything today and retry it (no work or school today -- yay!). Third time is a charm ''':)'''. --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 08:37, 22 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::::So it ended up being an easy thing to install and I was just being dumb ''':P'''. I have got a few form examples working and I think it is a really sweet extension, but there is a major problem that really limits the Semantic Form usage. The form must be used to fill a template (at least from my knowledge using their built-in form generator). This poses a problem if we wanted to have users fill in a race page for example. They could only fill out the author template and x0 template (or Race template if we replace that), but the point stands that there are limitations. Semantic Wiki on its own though looks like a really great extension and the forms extension would be good to use at least for some pages. All the work I have done with races, for example, can be made a lot better by tagging particular parts of an article. If we can get the form extension working in the ideal way, then new users will never create a poorly formatted page. I say go for the installs. They definitely don't hurt and in fact I will start a project to tag all the races so we can get rid of templates to store information. --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 11:30, 22 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
{{Discussion Indentation Revert}}<br />
<br />
:Okay, we can give it a go. I will have [[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] install it when he answers me back. Also, I am a little confused as to what you are saying above. Can we or can we not get rid of the [[Template:x0]] on the races' pages with this extension? I thought this made it so one can "tag" certain parts of an article and have those "tags" show up on a different page as well (like a split [[Template:x0]] (just like [[DnD Deities|Deities]] is currently organized)). --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 11:38, 22 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::We can get rid of any templates we use that duplicate information already in the article (such as x0). What happens is we create properties which are used to identify information. So in the case of a Race, we would have a property called "Ability Score Adjustments" or something like that and tag the section directly in the article that refers to the ability score adjustments. Instead of using dpl to grab template information, we use semantic wiki to grab the "Ability Score Adjustment" directly from the page. The main advantage in my opinion is that when you update a page, you only have to change information once and then the tables update. It will be some work though (thus why it would become a project for me), but Semantic Wiki does not change existing wiki functionality, which is a very good thing. --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 11:45, 22 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::I installed WAMP (appache server + php + mysql latest stable versions) on my vista ultimate machine last night and then installed media wiki semantic and the forms extension I had no trouble it installed perfectly (apart from me stupidly trying to instal semantic forms with a mysql user that didn't have permission to create tables). I have been fiddling around a little havnt had much time though. Here's what i've figured out:<br />
:::# You create properties like string, page or date first<br />
:::# Then create templates (using the template making tool that comes with the forms) I made a author template and a very quick deity template.<br />
:::# then you make a form. You pick Author click add. then you click deity and click add (you can create forms which use more than one template!)<br />
:::# name the form then save<br />
:::# when you go to the form it will ask for a page name type one in like "MyDeity (DnD Deity)" hit enter<br />
:::# you are then taken to the form you fill it out it makes the page as per the templates it works as described !!! :O<br />
:::# you can even edit the page again using the form !!!<br />
::: [[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 19:11, 22 February 2008 (MST)<br />
::::There is one thing though semantic wiki adds a box at the bottom of the page "Facts about..." if it can be removed i'd be happier. [[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 19:16, 22 February 2008 (MST)<br />
:::::I just realized it would be relatively easy to turn our current preloads into templates add a few bits of code you have a compatible template to make a form for and if you edit the template EVERY SINGLE CREATURE, DEITY OR CLASS (that uses that template) IS EDITED AS WELL!!! meaning we decide we want the classes to look like (insert format here) we can instantly change them all at once!!! [[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 19:36, 22 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::The problem lies in the fact that we will have to change every single homebrew page. I'm up for the challenge (as long as it takes), but help will be nice if you are willing ''':)'''. It does seem pretty nifty though. --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 20:20, 22 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::I do not want this extension if the "Facts about" (or whatever it is called) is present. Is there a way to remove it? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:07, 22 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::::I am more than happy to help. What we need is to create the forms and templates so that all new entries use them. then start changing things over slowly, On the plus side if it takes awhile to convert the old stuff its not so bad as they will look exactly as they do now until we get to them. Perhaps we should consider moving this discussion onto it's own page before this page gets so large it destroys the Internet. I would also suggest holding off on installing it until we've fiddled some more to see what effect it has on the wiki like the damn facts about table. [[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 22:10, 22 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::I should point out the facts about table is only present on pages that use semantic data so if we did instal it it wouldnt effect anything until we started to make pages with semantic data on them. [[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 22:14, 22 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::::::This is an image of an author table I created useing a form [http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/6099/66402195ri6.jpg]<br />
::::::::::Notice it looks exactly the same as our current author table. Below is the form:<br />
::::::::::[http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/5454/36613376en2.jpg] [http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/766/83147904gr7.jpg] <br />
::::::::::Notice on the form the date field it is contextual so all dates on author pages will have the same format so yet more consistency [[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 23:03, 22 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::First off, what is that operating system your using... please don't say Vista ''';)'''; Ubuntu überalles. Anyway, again, is there anyway to remove the "facts about" box? If that can be removed this will be installed right away. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 21:47, 24 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::::::::I'm afraid so I use (and like) Windows Vista Ultimate Version 6.0.6000 Build 6000. Ok I have figured out how to get rid of the factbox (that's its official name) you need to edit "SMW_Settings.php" in the folder "[wiki folder]\extensions\SemanticMediaWiki\includes". this line "$smwgShowFactbox = SMW_FACTBOX_NONEMPTY;" needs to be changed to "$smwgShowFactbox = SMW_FACTBOX_HIDDEN;" and this line "$smwgShowFactboxEdit = SMW_FACTBOX_NONEMPTY;" needs to be changed to "$smwgShowFactboxEdit = SMW_FACTBOX_HIDDEN;". Pages that were created with semantic data on them before you change these lines seem to keep the factbox for some reason on my machine so those settings should be changed as soon as the extension is installed. [[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 23:35, 24 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::::I've put my project of wikifying entries on hold until we figure all this out because if we decide to edit the old entries so they use the forms templates I'll be doubling up on work. If we make semantic templates out of the preloads the articles made with forms will look like our current entries but if we want the old entries to get layout updates automatically like the new entries will be able to we will have to change all the old entries. As [[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] says it will be a mammoth task but in the end I think the benefits are worth it. --[[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 23:45, 26 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
{{Discussion Indentation Revert}}<br />
<br />
:Is there an ETA for Blue Dragon to put this on the server? I'm eager to work on using the Semantic features! --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 12:36, 27 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::It should be done now! ''':)''' &mdash; <span style="color:#002137;">[[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] <small> ([[User_talk:Blue Dragon|talk]])</small></span> 22:45, 28 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::I say lets start with [[LA 8 Races]]. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 23:22, 28 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::Okay, so [[Form:DnD Equipment]] was created, however the category issue and the identifier issue still needs to be solved. Any ideas on how to fix these problems? Also, I feel this would be a lot easier if two edit boxes worked on a form, however it seems they do not. Any ideas on how to circumvent this, or can two of them work on a form somehow? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 01:16, 29 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::: Sorry GD but I don't have a clue what your asking. --[[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 05:39, 29 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::[[Form:DnD Equipment]] now includes categories, I do not know all the categories for subtype ie: outfits armor etc and the way i've written it you can only have one type category and one subtype category if someone wants to find a way around that be my guest and could someone who knows all the categories add a list to [[Property:Item Subtype]] for me the list should be written like [[Property:Item Type]]. I made some properties for the author template so we could use the new semantic search functionality to search for say all pages with me as the author but the template wasn't working properly after I added them so I reverted the edit I'll try to get it to work later but if someone else wants to try be my guest. --[[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 07:04, 29 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::::P.S. Sorry about littering the recent changes pages with all those edits its hard to tell what an edit will do when your working on a template and form at the same time and changes to a form cant be seen through the preview button (because you only see the page title input box). also feel free to delete the page entitled test. --[[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 07:09, 29 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::P.P.S. I have added code to Category:Equipment so that any page using that category will have a tab at the top "Edit with form" which will send you to the equipment form. This will allow novices to edit their page without having to edit code and will allow us to edit the old pages so they use the form now. --[[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 07:34, 29 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::::::I have deleted the "Edit with Form" option &mdash; I want people to learn wiki syntax. Blue Dragon also implemented this, however I am not a fan. Deleted. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 10:55, 29 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::Are you sure you want to enforce that? The whole purpose of wiki-markup is so that users don't have to know HTML to created and edit pages. Semantic Forms takes it one step further by narrowing the amount of wiki-markup a user has to use. It seems a bit counter-intuitive to actively require users to learn the wiki syntax. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 11:23, 29 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::::::::This "edit with form" thing might help improve the formatting of pages made by new or non-users. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 11:55, 29 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
{{Discussion Indentation Revert}}<br />
<br />
:Damn you [[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ''';)''', you're very right. Okay, I guess we can have them... It's just that I do not want a generation of users not learning wiki syntax; that could be detrimental to D&D Wiki. However, what is the goal of D&D Wiki? It's to provide a place where users can submit homebrew content so it can be played in other D&D campaigns. Editing with forms will just help make the goal of posting things and fixing things on D&D Wiki easier. I guess we should have it. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:29, 29 February 2008 (MST) <br />
<br />
::For me it's more about letting people add and edit content easily without having to learn the entire wiki syntax in one hit. If they want their creations to look good they still have to learn syntax for stuff like equipment as there is no standard format for the item description etc so at current we just have an input box, but if they don't bother with syntax as a lot of creation i've wikified didn't then the form has done most of the wikifying for us. Does that mean I can put the edit with form tab back up? --[[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 19:04, 29 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::I say go for it. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:26, 2 March 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
=== SMW and DPL ===<br />
<br />
There's been a request for [http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=Main_Page DPL] to be able to access SMW properties. I'm keeping an eye out for when this gets implemented. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 11:19, 29 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:Once the semantic data is implemented it would be possible to replace the dpl generated tables with inline queries, if anyone is interested in doing that we would not need the DPL to be able to access SMW. I'm not sure how the DPL works exactly but SMW inline queries are done each time someone looks at a page so if the DPL doesn't do this using SMW inline queries may put more strin on the server for more information goto the SMW [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Inline_queries manual] --[[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 18:59, 29 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::I'll have to play around with it and see the level of flexibility compared to DPL. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 04:35, 1 March 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::Had trouble using the queries on my test wiki but I suspect that may be because i'm not as smart as I like to think. --[[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 06:10, 1 March 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::I made a query at [[LA 8 Races]], but I am getting SRD Matches for some reason. I think it is using an implicit OR rather than an implicit AND for the category matches, even though the documentation claims it uses AND by default. I do know a way to fix the table, but it is not elegant because it will stop working if we add semantic syntax to the SRD. I'll keep looking for an answer... --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 07:30, 1 March 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
== Featured Articles ==<br />
<br />
Hi everyone time for major change to the wiki idea number two (number one being semantic forms). I guess it's not a major change so much as a new 'thing'. I was wondering what would everyone think about having a article featured on the main page say every month. We nominate articles for featuring, people would support or oppose the articles then first day of the month one could be chosen to be on the main page until the next month. The articles would be finished work, well formated etc etc. --[[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 06:23, 3 March 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:We could also go that step further and have a Process closer to wikipedias where you nominate an article it becomes 'featured' but does not necessarily get added to the main page. each month or week or whatever someone decides which one gets put up / you can request a featured article be considered for the main page. --[[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 06:40, 3 March 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::Er... I know why you brought this up; it really is a standard across most wiki's. Therefore it makes me lean towards implementing it... Anyway, if this is to get implemented I do not want an obtrusive template, like the one on Uncyclopedia. Any thoughts for a good template? P.S. I like the second implementation more. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:37, 3 March 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::{| style="text-align: right; width: 100%; border: none;" <br />
| This is a [[Featured Articles|Featured Article]]! [[Image:Cscr-featured.png|30px]]<br />
|}<br />
:::Thoughts?<br />
:::--[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 14:33, 3 March 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::How do you handle projects? Does LotR count as one or a few hundred? Does the ''title page'' of LotR count? --[[User:Pwsnafu|Pwsnafu]] 17:38, 3 March 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::The main reason I was thinking about it is it puts some of our best work on the front page which draws in visitors instead of going through all those links to find something cool it's right there you can read it then people are more likely to go searching for more. It's also a recognition of your hard work having it on the main page. I like your little Featured article template is it for the talk page or the actual page if it's for the actual page perhaps it could be centered that way it blends in more being between the table of contents and the author template. We'd need some guidelines or criteria for making a page featured, and some one to arbitrate the process (and make final decisions) we can call him/her the Article Master or AM (like DM lol). we need to get some ideas rolling then maybe take a vote? --[[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 19:06, 3 March 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::Pwsnafu: I'd say for something like that it would be best to feature the main page of a project, not all subpages would need to be as good but there would still be a standard of quality for the entire project. Conversely a particularly good subpage which can stand on it's own could also be featured. --[[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 19:10, 3 March 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::I've just been stareing at the main page for awhile and so far I haven't thought of much in the way of how we could format it. About the only thing I can think of would be move the tavern schedule down next to the news and then use that blank space next to the menu for the featured articles. EDIT: personally I'd be for moving the tavern schedule to its own page. --[[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 19:29, 3 March 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::::[[Featured Articles]] --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 01:42, 4 March 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::I'm all for it, if it means that even wanton visitors can get a more inside view of the site at first glance. It might persuade some of them to stick around and lord knows dandwiki can use more contributors :O. --[[User:Sulacu|Sulacu]] 10:01, 5 March 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::::::Yes! --[[User:Penske|Penske]] 15:27, 5 March 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::Now we just need some featured articles :P. Hard to judge the true value of a system if it isn't used. --[[User:Sulacu|Sulacu]] 18:29, 5 March 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
== Gygax Gone at 69 ==<br />
<br />
[[:Category:Gary Gygax|Gary Gygax]], co-creator of D&D with [[:Category:Dave Arneson|Dave Arneson]], passed away Tuesday, March 4th, 2008, at the age of 69. Read coverage on it at [http://blog.wired.com/underwire/2008/03/report-gary-gyg.html Wired], [http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/technology/2008/03/farewell_gary_gygax_the_dungeo.html BBC News], [http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080304/ap_en_ot/obit_gygax Yahoo! News], [http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?no_d2=1&sid=08/03/04/1750206 /.], and many other news sites. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 09:18, 5 March 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:[[Discussion:The Passing of a Giant - RIP Gary Gygax]] --[[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 09:21, 5 March 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
== Submitted for Your Approval ==<br />
<br />
I present the new [[Form:DnD Spell|form for submitting (non-epic) spells]], Courtesy of Semantic MediaWiki and Semantic Forms. [[Special:EditData/Form:DnD_Spell/User:Sledged/Atonement|Here]]'s what it looks like with the fields populated. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 15:30, 5 March 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:Hm... I wish you could make it work more like [[Form:Rating]] where it uses a template which, once saved, goes to the normal wiki formatting. Can this be done with spells as well? It's just that I do not really want the formatting of all the spells changed to this new "standard". --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:18, 5 March 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::If that is what is wanted all you have to do is add <tt><nowiki>subst:</nowiki></tt> in the form code next to any templates you want to be substituted onto the page. --[[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 20:33, 5 March 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::Just be aware that if <tt>subst:</tt> is added, you'll lose the option of using the form to edit the page once it's been created. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 11:21, 6 March 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::It is a price I would be willing to pay. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:44, 6 March 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::Okay, there's a problem with <tt>subst:</tt>. Part of the way to form works is that it looks at the template to see what properties it has and which parameters are associated with each property. When you use <tt>subst:</tt>, it's looking for the page <tt>Template:subst:template name</tt> instead of <tt>Template:template name</tt> and it makes the form useless as a result. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 14:37, 6 March 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
== Wiki Criticism ==<br />
<br />
This is the most useless Wiki I have ever found on D&D. I'm sick of homebrew rubbish. I'm trying to find info on Mask and Olidamarra (spelling?) and I can't find anything good) {{unsigned| 68.193.215.240}}<br />
<br />
:Admittedly, this probably isn't the best wiki to go to for official WotC material, but that doesn't make it useless. What's wrong with homebrew? WotC seems to encourage it, and the only real difference between good homebrew and published material is that the former is sold in books. --[[User:Daniel Draco|Daniel Draco]] 05:40, 14 April 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::We are not allowed to have information about Gods and Goddesses on D&D Wiki. They are reserved as product identity. Sorry about that. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 21:27, 14 April 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::Should be in [[Deities and Demigods]], no? If you want even more information than that, you're likely looking into some very specific Forgotten Realms books. --[[User:Sulacu|Sulacu]] 18:51, 20 April 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== WotC Website Material ==<br />
<br />
It occurred to me as I was answering a question about what material we have on the site...would we be able to host material from the wizards site? [http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/psi The Mind's Eye], for instance, has some interesting things, and I would love to see things like it on the wiki. --[[User:Daniel Draco|Daniel Draco]] 19:16, 18 April 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:Hm... Can we http://ww2.wizards.com/Company/Default.aspx?doc=SiteLegalNotice? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 14:19, 19 April 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::According to section 2, "You are granted a limited, non-sublicenseable license to ''access'' and use the Site and ''electronically copy'' (except where specified as prohibited) and ''print to hard copy portions'' of Site Content for your ''personal'', noncommercial use only; provided, that you preserve any copyright, trademark or other similar notices contained in or associated with such Site Content. Such license is subject to these TOU and does not include: [...] (ii) the collection and use of any product or service listings, pictures or descriptions; '''(iii) the distribution (electronic or otherwise), public performance, or public display of any Site Content;''' [...] downloading (other than the page caching) of any portion of the Site, any Site Content or any information contained therein, except as expressly permitted on the Site; [...]"<br />
::In other words, I think not. Hosting anything more than links here violates the spirit of the first, italicized part (my emphasis) and also several of the explicit prohibitions (especially the bolded one, also my emphasis added). So... probably not. And WotC has a history of taking a very hard line against IP infringement, copyright suits, etc. &mdash;[[User:EldritchNumen|EldritchNumen]] 14:33, 19 April 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::Well once you sift through a little legal phrasing, that's pretty clear...their terms of use explicitly forbid it, since a wiki definately counts as public display. Oh well ''':/'''. --[[User:Daniel Draco|Daniel Draco]] 16:50, 19 April 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::The shame is that this material will disappear. When I was documenting Wizard's past products, I found that many items had dropped off their site. They are poor caretakers of their own material. The academic in me want to preserve their own web content for their own good.--[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 18:10, 19 April 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
==Feats==<br />
<br />
How about an area under the Featured Article for a 'Feat of the Day' with a link to a feat... --[[User:Calidore Chase|Calidore Chase]] 19:14, 19 April 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:If you go that route, you can just as well try to implement such a component feature for other groupings of data. Spell of the Day, NPC of the Day, etc. --[[User:Sulacu|Sulacu]] 18:54, 20 April 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::I agree, no such special section for feats is necessary, they can become featured as well ''';)'''. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 00:44, 21 April 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::Link of the day? kinda like a word of the day feature... --[[User:Calidore Chase|Calidore Chase]] 08:10, 7 May 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== Other Netbooks ==<br />
<br />
Does anyone know where to find the other netbooks from FanCC? I'd be interested in seeing them, possibly up on the wiki. {{Unsigned|Gruegirl|22:00, 23 April 2008 (MDT)}}<br />
<br />
:I am not sure, sorry. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:12, 29 April 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== 4th Edition Link ==<br />
<br />
I've had a thought; I think we could, and probably should, put the link to the 4th edition homebrew (and possibly the SRD, though we can't put it up yet, for obvious reasons) on the main page, because, as people in ENworld have proved, we have enough preveiw material from the PHB Lite (derived from the pregenerated characters and rogue preview) to make some powers, the 1st level for classes, and odd things here-and-there. As ENworld is already doing odd bits of 4e homebrew based on previews, we might as well provide a place for it to go now, rather than later.<br />
<br />
Also, my gaming group has started a 4e campaign with the Pre-Generated characters, and everything is ''so'' much more better than 3.5. The fighter felt more like a fighter than in 3.5. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 12:26, 26 April 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:Although as the deadline is drawing nearer and nearer I am leaning towards using the same revised 3e pages and just changing the identifier/creating a namespace for them. The voting (please see above discussion) outlined that the community would prefer that we distinguish 4e from 3.5e with just namespaces and categories. I know you have spent a lot of time on the 4e pages, however do we really need them? Is there any way we could utilize the current pages with 4e? Thoughts? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 00:16, 5 May 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::Won't be playing 4e for quite a while. Checkbook ain't so hot right now. So I would personally prefer keeping a 3e section and a seperate 4e section. --[[User:Calidore Chase|Calidore Chase]] 08:13, 7 May 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::I don't think it would be possible anyway. I think it would be easier and less confusing to keep them seperate... --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 08:23, 7 May 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== Random Link ==<br />
<br />
Would it be possible to add a random link to the navigation links too the side? This will allow for a more rounded out site over all. Eg. people are able to fix and contribute to content that they may not normally get to see. This will also allow DM's to make more interesting characters. --[[User:Sabre070|Sabre070]] 00:21, 6 May 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:I like the idea of a random page link too. Course there is one in the special pages link on the side and you could add one to your user page (as I have). --[[User:Calidore Chase|Calidore Chase]] 08:09, 7 May 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
==Featured User==<br />
How about a link to a particularly good user page. There are a few out there and it may encouraage others to create pages of their own. Maybe have a pool of good user pages that the link is randomly derived from. --[[User:Calidore Chase|Calidore Chase]] 08:07, 7 May 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:I vote no. --[[User:Othtim|Othtim]] 17:56, 16 May 2008 (MDT)</div>Othtimhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Main_Page&diff=254960Talk:Main Page2008-05-16T23:56:21Z<p>Othtim: /* Featured User */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Archives<br />
|label1=Discussions 1&ndash;30<br />
|label2=Discussions 31&ndash;44<br />
}}<br />
<br />
== 4th edition ==<br />
<br />
I don't really want to recreate the rumours and excitement concerning the upcoming 4th edition, but it looks like we need to think about a way to handle it here. It's pretty sure that there will be two editions in parallel use, at least for a while, so we need a way to separate editions. Tagging articles [[:Category:3.5]] and [[:Category:4.0]] wouldn't be too hard, what I'm concerned about is article lemmata for articles that exists in different versions for different editions. <br />
<br />
Also, it's not clear yet whether there will be a 4th edition SRD. I hope there will be one. --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 08:50, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:Might be a good idea to put SRD 3.5 articles with a template underneath (this is only a suggestion, not an attempt to have a million templates per page):<br />
<br />
:{| style="text-align: center; font-size:0.9em;" width="100%"<br />
| [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|40px]]<br/>This material is published under the [[V3.5 rules]].<br/><small>[[Main Page|&rarr;More]]</small><br />
|}<br />
<br />
:Although, there might be too many templates if we do this. perhaps we could replace the SRD template to this for 3.5 articles:<br />
<br />
:{| class="messagebox protected" style="border:2px solid #99B; padding:0px; font-size:0.9em;"<br />
|-<br />
| valign="top" | [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|45px]]<br />
| This material is published under the '''[[Open Game License v1.0a]]'''. The [[GNU Free Documentation License]] does not apply to this page. This material is for the D&D [[V 3.5 rules]].<br />
|}<br />
<br />
:We don't really need to mark homebrew stuff- it should work for 4.0 rules anyway. Whatre can I find news on the 4th edition, anyway? --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 09:10, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::Have you been at the WotC Homepage lately? Did you notice something? --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 09:48, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::If 4e is really coming out we can most likely just slap on a small template on all 4e things or all 3.5e things. Also, the categories you said above will work. I do not see it as too much of a problem... --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 10:55, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::According to my reasearch, it ios not out until 2011 (rather silly really; why advertise it four and a bit years before its release), so we really do not have to bother with it yet, anyway. {{Unsigned|Sam Kay|10:04, 16 August 2007 (MDT)}}<br />
<br />
::::::Boo! Hsssss! I had a browser tab open for the last ten minutes of the countdown of the [http://www.wizards.com/dnd D&D] page. Once it finished, I got "Service Unavailable". About as disappointing as 3.0 psionics. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 16:35, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::Lol ''':)'''. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 16:38, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::4th edition is definitely coming. We really need to sit down, argue, butt heads, and work out the namespacing issues now. Thankfully, 3E has a namespace already. We have lots to sort out. Wikiworld will instantly be 4th compatible, as I haven't bothered with stats for most of the writeup. The new MIC style items should also be compatible. There are interesting times ahead. --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 18:39, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::It has been stated that the PHB will be out May '08 MM June '08 and DMG July '08 {{Unsigned|Quill|19:11, 16 August 2007 (MDT)}}<br />
<br />
::::::::::Yes, we have a year to prepare but it makes it easier later if we start thinking about it now. Btw., I'm still waiting for the WotC Homepage to survive sudden massive attention so I can see the official WotC Press release... --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 03:22, 17 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::Just do what I suggested and replace the OGC tgemplate with:<br />
:::::::::::{| class="messagebox protected" style="border:2px solid #99B; padding:0px; font-size:0.9em;"<br />
|-<br />
| valign="top" | [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|45px]]<br />
| This material is published under the '''[[Open Game License v1.0a]]'''. The [[GNU Free Documentation License]] does not apply to this page. This material is for the D&D [[V 3.5 rules]].<br />
|}<br />
<br />
:::::::::::It is alot easier to mark 3.5 in this way. You could also add an image to the template to mark it, I suppose. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 04:30, 17 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::::::I vote to leave the V3.5 on the wiki pemanently (unless the wiki runs out of memory), as some people will still use V3.5. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 09:39, 17 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::::Btw, [http://rustmonster.net/2007/08/16/dd-4th-edition-announced-gen-con/ here] it says that Wizards announced to continue the OGL. Good decision. --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 09:45, 17 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
{{Discussion Indentation Revert}}<br />
<br />
:Can we get a 4E Info/Rumor link up on the landing page? (Though we may as well link it to ENWorld. They will have the best coverage.) [http://www.enworld.org/index.php?page=4e ENWorld 4E Page] It hasn't been updated yet, but it will be. --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 14:19, 17 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::Great! it will be nice to have 4.0e on the wiki.--[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 08:27, 18 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::A few things. First off we need to figure out if the homebrew material will be compatible with 4e, if it is we are well off. If it is not we need to figure out how we are going to categorize the 3.5e and the 4e homebrew information separately. Oh, and yes, D&D Wiki has enough space to keep the 3.5e material - nothing need ever be deleted to save space on D&D Wiki. Secondly, if we want a link to 4e information from ENWorld then, I feel, that we should add it as a news item. Dmilewski can take care of this if this is the communities decision. Thirdly we need to figure out when the 4e SRD is coming out to see how much time we have to prepare for it. About the SRD (3.5e and 4e); we need to decide if we want a different namespace for the two SRD editions or if we want to organize them by their identifiers. Anyway, if the homebrew information is compatible we are looking at not too much work (and a much more useful and successful D&D Wiki). Let us hope... ''':)'''. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:10, 18 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::I think ther homebrew stuff will mostlky ber compatable with 4e, but if not we will have to work to update the best stuff... --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 12:22, 18 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::Either the homebrew material is almost 100% good-to-go or it is not. We cannot have a medium on D&D Wiki. The reason we can not have a medium is because many many people will not switch over to 4e for a long time (or ever!) and we do want want these people to lose D&D Wiki as a recourse. If the two editions are not compatible we will have to have two separate pages like [[Dungeons and Dragons]] and we will have to have 3.5e classes, races, etc and 4e classes, races, etc. Again, we need to really know if they will be compatible or not (and if someone has any information please cite the source). --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:32, 18 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::Yeah, I know, I was meaning as they are now... I have had a look at the articles on WotC website, and I seem to remember that the playtest report mentioned that a player was playing a psyon (because it was 3.5e) to see if it was compatible.--[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 12:42, 18 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::I volenteer to help updating homberew stuff to 4e should the need arise (hopefully it won't). --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 12:54, 18 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::I think that conversion of each section should be considered on a case-by-case basis. For example, magic items may only need a level assigned to them. That's an easy conversion worth doing. Classes and prestige classes will need to be entirely rewritten as trees, maneuvers, or such, if they are worth translating at all. <br />
<br />
::::::::My current belief is that we will need to split the content. That hoses the entire redirect initiative. (That was a reservation of mine with the redirect initiative. All the pages that I did for the SRD were hard-referenced. I used no redirects.) <br />
<br />
::::::::Campaign environments will be easiest to convert. Many simply implement the existing system, then list some house rules. For example, LotR and Wikiworld are both concept heavy, rules light. Wikiworld has always been rules light, as I wanted Wikiworld to work with any game system. I suggest that Sam keep LotR rules light, so as to keep it universal.<br />
<br />
:::::::::I was at GenCon when they made the announcement of 4e. According to Wizards of the Coast, the 3.5e material will be compatible with a minimum of modification. There were no details given at the time, however, so what that means, I'm not sure. --[[User:Skwyd|Skwyd]] 14:04, 23 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::::Many classes and (both base and prestige) might be obsolete under the new rules- if the same effect can be made just by using talents on one of the other classes. I think we'll have to make a big review of everything and check it for 4e compatibility, maybe putting a 4e Compatible template and a 4e Incompatible template (and nothing on pages that haven't nbeen checked yet, obviously). [[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 08:25, 3 November 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::Or we could just keep 3.5e material 3.5e material, since not everyone is going to switch right away... Maybe keep it for a couple years than change it to 4e. Thoughts? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 16:16, 4 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
I read on the Wizards page that one thing they're thinking of implementing with all the online stuff they're using in 4th ed is a wiki to allow home brew stuff. If that's true, it may be best to just keep this site in 3.x to avoid competition with the "official" wiki. I'm still uncertain about all that though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Banyan|Banyan]] 23:07, 23 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:I don't think a little competition will hurt. If Wizards opens their own wiki, that's an excellent idea, but it doesn't mean we should give up this project here. --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 00:57, 24 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::I wouldn't bother with the "official wiki" anyway. This one is better. Anyway, why would we be scared of competition? It is not like we are trying to make money, or anything. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 04:00, 24 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::Would someone like to contact them and ask them if this is true? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:35, 26 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
==New Edition Issues==<br />
<br />
The following questions are both technical and procedural. There is no correct answer. These questions are here to collect upcoming issues with the wiki and decisions that should be considered. Please add to the list.<br />
<br />
===General architecture===<br />
<br />
How best to manage a wiki filled with multiple editions and systems (3E, 4E, Modern, Etc.)<br />
<br />
:I am very open to discussion, but I feel that the best way to manage different systems is to make the different edition pages very obvious. For example, we could have all namespace v4 pages come with a slightly darker page background, or something similar. &mdash; <span style="color:#002137;">[[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] <small> ([[User_talk:Blue Dragon|talk]])</small></span> 10:22, 22 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::I agree. The Wizards message boards use a different skin for each game. &ndash;[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] <small>([[User talk:Cuthalion|talk]])</small> 10:57, 22 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::I am against the changing of the skin, however I think namespaces are the way to go. We could label the namespaces as SRD3.5e, SRD4e, 4e, 3.5e, D20M, etc. What do you guys think about this idea? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 21:11, 22 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::People will be far too confused if they want to know whether the article is 3.5 or 4.0, and they constantly have to be checking namespaces. It will be much easier if the page background is slightly darker for 4.0, or something similar. I am not talking about a different feel, just a difference. There is a difference :) &mdash; <span style="color:#002137;">[[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] <small> ([[User_talk:Blue Dragon|talk]])</small></span> 18:00, 23 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::Why not have two menu pages, one for each edition, and label all pages with 3.5 and 4.0? --[[User: Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 04:02, 24 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::Sam Kay, do you mean namespaces? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:04, 26 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::Yeah... I did. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 06:23, 1 September 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
===Namespaces===<br />
Should we move current SRD pages to a 3E namespace?<br />
<br />
:I assume you mean 3.5E namespace, and I feel that we need to wait a bit until the structure is clear and known to all, but I feel that it definitely needs to happen before 4E comes out. &mdash; <span style="color:#002137;">[[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] <small> ([[User_talk:Blue Dragon|talk]])</small></span> 10:23, 22 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
How do we want the namespaces to interact?<br />
<br />
:Why not have two D&D menus: 3.5, and 4.0. That way, you would know whether you where in 3.5 or 4.0. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 10:33, 3 September 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
What should we do with articles that are invariant between 3E and 4E (assuming there are any)?<br />
<br />
:This brings up another question: It would be great if there was a way to allow edits on a 3.5E to be reflected, or maybe a reflection would be requested, onto a 4E page. This way the races or whatnot would remain the same. &mdash; <span style="color:#002137;">[[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] <small> ([[User_talk:Blue Dragon|talk]])</small></span> 10:25, 22 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::I've been wrestling with related questions on [[WikiRPS]]. It's easy to have small (or even large) pieces of shared text, using a template. But what if the bulk of the text is shared, but just the numbers scattered throughout the text are different (for instance)? As far as I know, the only way to do it is to modularize the text into templates as much as possible. &ndash;[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] <small>([[User talk:Cuthalion|talk]])</small> 11:02, 22 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
Redirects point to 3E SRD. Is there a way to have namespace relative redirects, where <nowiki>[[foo]]</nowiki> inside the <nowiki>[[SRD]]</nowiki> context points to <nowiki>[[SRD:Foo]]</nowiki> while <nowiki>[[foo]]</nowiki> in the 4E context points to <nowiki>[[SRD4:Foo]]</nowiki>. <br />
<br />
:I don't think it's possible, but I'm willing to be proven wrong. &ndash;[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] <small>([[User talk:Cuthalion|talk]])</small> 09:55, 21 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::It would be possible with a few minor hacks. However, this will lead to a very confusing website. I am against the idea. &mdash; <span style="color:#002137;">[[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] <small> ([[User_talk:Blue Dragon|talk]])</small></span> 10:18, 22 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
===Templates===<br />
<br />
What templates should be used to tag 3E and 4E pages?<br />
<br />
===Homebrew===<br />
<br />
Should homebrew rules be tagged by edition?<br />
<br />
:I strongly feel so. Everything is specific to a version if it falls back on D&D. &mdash; <span style="color:#002137;">[[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] <small> ([[User_talk:Blue Dragon|talk]])</small></span> 10:26, 22 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::That depends on whether it is edition specific or not: WotC declaired that 3.5e would be compatable with 4.0e --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 06:19, 1 September 2007 (MDT)--[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 06:19, 1 September 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::Im new here just signed up today but was reading through this and had something to say. According to the Dnd podcast 4ed is not fully compatible with 3.5, They imply that if you want to use a lot of stuff it will have to be updated. In fact they go so far as to say that you may even have to recreate things from the ground up. So separating old material and new material will be nessacary. I'd suggest tagging everything now 3.5. then creating a menu with two separate sections 3.5 and 4 and go through a process of reviewing and or editing the old material and copy it over to the new namespace.[[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 07:16, 5 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::Not nessassaraly- look as CSs- they are mostly background stuff, therefore, they have no <br />
need of a tag for either 3.5 or 4. Deities might not, depending on rule changes. Enviroments will not, as it is mostly descriptive stuff. And they said that it would a be a case-by-case thing. Plus, changing the DnD category to 3.5e would take forever. there are about 4000 articles (I think) here. Better to leave them as DnD, and add 4e. Which has been done. And anyway, I said "compatable" not "fully compatable". They mean slightly different things: one means that some suff may need minor changes, others would need alot, the other means that you could just drop it into a game. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 09:36, 5 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
Should campaigns get their own namespace, or belong to their intended edition?<br />
<br />
:I feel that campaigns should not get their own namespaces because it would remove the items in the campaign from D&D Wiki linking schemes, etc. &mdash; <span style="color:#002137;">[[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] <small> ([[User_talk:Blue Dragon|talk]])</small></span> 10:26, 22 August 2007 (MDT)''<br />
<br />
===Site conversion===<br />
<br />
How best to automate changes?<br />
<br />
Should 3E redirect be systematically replace with hard page references?<br />
<br />
:I'm not sure I understand the question. Can you give an example? &ndash;[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] <small>([[User talk:Cuthalion|talk]])</small> 09:55, 21 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::I think it means that rather than mentions of "darkvision" being linked to the darkvision page it says what page information about darkvision can be found at in the core rule books. If so, I am against the idea. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 04:09, 6 October 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== Another 4e Option ==<br />
<br />
I can't help but feel that the cleanest solution would to be just host a completely separate wiki specifically for 4E, and just circumvent all the aforementioned issues. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 11:30, 21 October 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:I agree&mdash;having a separate wiki would be very clean, but it may not be as useful, since one would have to switch between the wiki for different versions of D&D. However, I am starting to like the idea... --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:24, 21 October 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::Well, I think the ease of having a separate wiki would probably be more valuable than the "convenience" of having them together. Also, my understanding is that 4E is not nearly so compatible with 3.5E. So, perhaps the "clean slate" concept would be much better. --[[User:Skwyd|Skwyd]] 10:02, 22 October 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::From what I'm reading it seems like it'll about as compatible as 2e is to 3e.<br />
:::Also, let's not forget that the above issues are merely the ones of which we can conceive. With projects this size, more issues always arise after implementation.<br />
:::4ed20wiki.com anyone? —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 19:36, 27 October 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::Wizards did say 4e would be compatible with 3e with a minor amount of modification. Why not have two sub-main pages within this wiki? On the main page you have links to 3rd edition D20 and 4th edition D20. Then each edition could have it's own sub-main page just like our current main page... That would be ''like'' two wikis but without the flicking from wiki to wiki, having two accounts, and the possibility of reduced number of edits on each wiki. Personally, I think it would be better to have one wiki with separate sections. We already have modern and D&D with separate sections on one wiki, so why not do it with 3e and 4e? --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 11:16, 28 October 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::I agree w/ Sam, we should just include a sub-set for D&D 4E like we did for d20 Modern. That way people can have just one account and since 3.5 will be compatible w/ 4E people can still look at all of our 3.5 Stuff and port it over to 4E. Just Create a Dungeons and Dragons 4E Page and a 4ESRD and everything's fine. --[[User:Watsyurname529|Watsyurname529]] 11:21, 28 October 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::I know that the "official" announcement was that 4E would be compatible with 3E, however, I've listened to the Podcasts, read much of the forum boards, and tried to pay attention to what is out there and I don't think it will be that compatible. In fact, Dave Noonan said on the D&D Podcast that there won't be a simple process to take a 3E character and just equate it to 4E. The level progression is different, the spread of powers associated with each level will change for each of the classes, and many of the class abilities (especially spell casting) are being changed greatly. Also, monsters are being reworked extensively, and many of the mechanics are being revised, rewritten, or scrapped entirely. I have a feeling that the compatibility will be simply that you can take a story line from a 3E adventure and use it, but the mechanics, though familiar, are not the same. --[[User:Skwyd|Skwyd]] 09:55, 30 October 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::I still think one wiki would be best. Plus, I have also been reading the announcements, and I think a lot of the things can already be achieved with variants: the saves working like ACs, for example, add 10 to each save, take 10 from the DC, and roll a D20 and add the DC, compare to save. Easy. Critical spells? I have already done a variant for that before they announced it in Design and development. It is on this site under the title [[Spellcasting (DnD Variant Rule)|Spellcasting]]. So 3E-4E conversion could be a case of slight modification using variant rules. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 10:31, 30 October 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::I'm not sure I see exactly how variants address the issue of hosting materials for two different versions of the d20 System. Are you suggesting that for every 4E rule component that's different from the corresponding 3.5 rule, it be put under the [[DnD Rules]] or a SRD Variant section? And if so, would this be in addition to or instead of hosting 4E SRD in it's own space?<br />
::::::::And since the d20 Modern section was brought up, I never really cared for it being hosted next to the d20 stuff. Admittedly, it hasn't been a problem, but that could be due to the fact that there's far fewer users using that section than the d20 section (if the amount of user-submitted material is any indication). Whether or not 4E material has it's own wiki, I'm definitely against the 4E d20 Modern and d20 Future being hosted on the same wiki.<br />
::::::::With the issue of multiple accounts, there's a way to have only one account apply to both wikis. I created an account on a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] site a while ago, and it works with all wikis there. [[User:Blue Dragon|Blue]] would know how complicated such a thing would be to accomplish, and if it'd be worth while. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 11:20, 30 October 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::The answer to your question is no, I was merely stating that I think 3E will be compatible with 4E with a minimal of rule conversion. If we can have one account on two seperate wikis, would it be possible to have a single user page (and talk page) for '''BOTH''' wikis? I knows you have seperate pages on wikia... and have links between wikis work as an "inside" link rather than an "external link"? If so, then having two wikis '''Would''' be more... better. Erm... More... practical. Although if we could have a united main page for both that lead to each seperate wiki, that would be good too. About 4E modern and D20 future, starwars ect, ect, yadda yadda yadda, I am not really bothered about them. So long as we have 3E and 4E D&D (and 3E modern would be good, although we could '''completely''' replace it with 4E modern), then I am happy. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 15:25, 30 October 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::::I have strengthened and decided my view, I am against two wikis for a number of reasons. One is that people would have two user pages, two talk pages, and two recent changes lists would exist. It would become a lot to handle. Another reason is that it would divide visitors between two sites, making it look like dandwiki.com is actually not doing as well as it would be, therefore making it not as popular on google, etc. Another reason I am against it is that people will choose one wiki they like and stick with it, disabling half of our growing user base. It would stop prompting people to join random discussions as much, and stop prompting them to help out as much. Another reason is that structure changes would have to be done twice, the same template made two times, one for each wiki. It seems, to me, like a lot more problems would arise than good would come out of it. I am against making two wikis.<br />
::::::::::A solution I see to this problem is namespaces. We could have namespaces such as 3.5e, 4e, 3.5eSRD, and 4eSRD to eliminate confusion as to which version something is. I think namespaces would be the best solution to this problem, not separate wikis. Maybe we should vote? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 16:00, 30 October 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::Sure. Why not? —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 21:25, 31 October 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::::::Done. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:19, 31 October 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::::If anyone can see a way to make the voting table below clearer please do. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 10:32, 1 November 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
{{Discussion Indentation Revert}}<br />
<br />
:I voted for everything. That's because I believe that we will need our whole toolbox to sort this out.<br />
:First, we need to identify the two idea complicating this discussion and table them. I believe that D20 Modern will be best served with it's own sister wiki. Simply by separating it, we greatly simplify our discussion. It then becomes its own discussion (which it deserves). Campaigns also deserves their own discussion. <br />
:This greatly simplifies our problem. <br />
:We already know that we will need new templates for 4.0. (Fact: see the new creature layout block.) We will also need new page preloads. Layout differences will help us tell one page from another. The new class pages will look different than the old class pages simply by being laid out differently. That does the same job as a skin. We also have footer and header templates that can go into a preload and existing pages.<br />
:Namespaces are powerful tools to help us sort out what is what, even at a glance. They provide an absoluteness that chains through everything. The new SRD will most definitely be in a new namespace. For contributor content, I don't see a powerful enough need for a separate namespace when layouts and templates are already providing us good service. Page titles also convey information. '''Page Title (DnD Page)''' is different from '''Page Title (4E Page)'''. <br />
:Categories will be directly impacted by namespaces, but the purpose of categories is not in separating pages, but in collecting like pages. If we try to separate pages too much using Categories, all we do is create a complicated set of categories. We have page titles and namespaces to help a user identify what page goes with which system. These should be sufficient.<br />
:Finally, there is ignorance. If we make the wiki too complex for contributors, we will lose contributors. Any schema that we invent must be apparent to our average contributor.<br />
:That's alot, isn't it?<br />
:My belief is that we should make a new namespace for the new SRD, and let the body of the wiki sort itself out with layouts, footers, and linking. Most sections are clearly one edition or the other. The trouble sections (D20 Modern and Campaigns) need their own discussions to sort out. --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 07:52, 1 November 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::If I didn't know better, I'd swear you were putting together an argument for separate wikis. I think this statement sums it up:<br />
<br />
:::''If we make the wiki too complex for contributors, we will lose contributors.''<br />
<br />
::There's going to be plenty to worry about with just dealing with one edition without having to worry about how keep the editions separate, and too many of the solutions depend on the users maintaining the separation. Right now we have users assigning incorrect categories or neglecting categories, putting non-SRD material in the SRD namespace, not using the preloads, not putting the " (DnD xxxx)" identifier (or putting the wrong identifier) when they create a page, and so on and so on. Trying to maintain a separation between editions is going to add to the problem. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 10:45, 1 November 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::Nothing on this earth will stop the symptoms above. Ignorance will always exist. I believe the above are symptoms of too-few editors. We have needed editors patrolling their own areas for a while. We must also admit to ourselves that editing is not very interesting to most of our contributors. I really don't know how to address that issue.<br />
:::One reason that I don't want separate wikis is that our Campaign section is always among the most popular sections. How do I maintain Wikiworld across two wikis? If our solutions won't work well for campaigns, we will hurt ourselves.--[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 15:09, 1 November 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::Also, on the incorrect editing, most random people who post here don't know all the catagories or how to properly code a wiki. I still don't know all the catagories but I usually go find a page that does and copy and paste. So the incorrect editing will always be a problem. I also firmly stand behind the idea of just one wiki, everything in one place. --[[User:Watsyurname529|Watsyurname529]] 15:28, 1 November 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::I agree with Dmilewski. Why was the last sysop elected more than half a year ago? It's because we have a large issue with people not wanting to edit the infrastructure of this site. The last editor that really edited the infrastructure was [[User:Mkill|Mkill]] (albeit with some very controversial edits), who since that time has left D&D Wiki. The infrastructure is not perfect here, many many things need to be improved or are currently wrong, but why is no one stepping up and fixing them? Is D&D Wiki to complex for people to handle? Should we dumb it down? And how do the questions I just asked pertain to 4e material?<br />
:::::Actually, I think the questions I just asked are the core of this issue. A new 4e wiki will eliminate all the issues with people not wanting to edit the infrastructure, and that is why it seems so appealing. It will make a new slate, without D&D Wiki's insane hierarchy (which, by the way, only exists because average users do not edit the infrastructure or help other people's creations on D&D Wiki), and without all of the work that needs to be done on D&D Wiki that is not getting done (publications, dplc's for races, modernizing classes layouts, linking orphaned pages, etc, etc). D&D Wiki has issues, and a new 4e wiki will remove them all... but I don't like to run from my problems.<br />
:::::Yes, D&D Wiki needs some major changes to become what I envision it to be; to become what everyone envisions it to be, but I feel we can accomplish these changes within this current wiki, and just this current wiki. Problems will arise from adding a new edition, but we can solve these problems, we will need to solve these problems... and, of course, the best way to solve these problems is to solve the problem with the average user not editing the infrastructure, because that is where I feel it all stems from. If the average editor feels that D&D Wiki does not just need more content, but rather needs infrastructure help, organizational help, help with making things look good, and help with making everything balanced, then with everyones hard work all the problems on D&D Wiki will soon disappear, creating an environment where adding a new edition will be as smooth as adding a new race. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 16:29, 1 November 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::Well not everyone wants to just go on a site and edit the way it works just for fun. They might add something but I wouldn't expect them to edit it. Maybe you should try on the equipment page to when you add a new item show some of the various templetes you can use such as the author one and the various catagories you can use. This might help because then you can just copy and paste what you need. I do agree that if we had more people editing and making things right the first or second time then this place would run much smoother. Now I would like to step up and help edit and my area would be the equipment section as I spend most my time there and I am most familar with it. You still might have to make more minor edits to what I have done but I garentee you that there will be less of them. Also, all I would be doing is standardizing and making minor edits as I do not know how to code much more than that; I could learn but that will take time. If you would like me to try to do that I will, it's just anywhere else and I'm not going to be nearly as useful. --[[User:Watsyurname529|Watsyurname529]] 21:18, 1 November 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::I really didn't for my post to be a ''"plea for help"'' (even though it may have come off like that... ''':P'''), but if you want to do something which requires little or no wiki-syntax knowledge thats helps out [[DnD Equipment]] please drop a note on my user-talk page and I will help you find something that needs to get done on [[DnD Equipment]]. Anyway... back to the subject on hand..... --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:57, 1 November 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::When does the vote end? --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 10:38, 14 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::Does the 5th of December sound okay? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 11:45, 2 December 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::::::Yeah. I think everybody who wants a vote has voted or will have done by then. We can always send a MOI to people who havent voted. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 10:26, 3 December 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::Okay, the vote is over. Thanks to everyone that voted, and it appears that we will not be making a separate wiki for 4e material (or holding a book burning convention) but rather organize the different edition by way of categories, namespaces, and possibly changing the identifier. Agiain, thanks to everyone that voted ''':)'''. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 17:05, 5 December 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::::::::So, when are we going to start setting it up for 4e? --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 13:40, 15 December 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::::Feel free to start whenever you have time... --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 21:04, 15 December 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
{{Discussion Indentation Revert}}<br />
<br />
:I'd love to, but what do we call the new pages... "4E Dungeons and Dragons", "4E D20 Modern", "4E DnD Base Classes"? --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 09:03, 16 December 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::Or "Dungeons and Dragons (4E)?" There's still a few more details that need to be decided. In what namespace will user content be? Main or "4E"? How do we deal with items independent of rules versions (i.e. maps, campaigns and the like)?<br />
::Personally, I think we can mirror the 3.5 section by replacing all the instances of "DnD" in all the identifiers with "4E" instead (e.g. "4E Character Options," "4E Feats," "4E Creatures," etc...), and the landing page can just be "Fourth Edition." (I always though "Dungeons and Dragons" and "DnD" were bit of misnomers in this context.) —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 10:37, 16 December 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::Ok. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 12:33, 16 December 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::I'll start setting it up under 4E Homebrew, 4E Feats, etc. We can move them if need be. If we have stuff under 4E as you suggested, I think DnD should be replaced with 3E or 3.5E for the 3.5 stuff... Thoughts? --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 02:18, 22 December 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::Started to set it up- see [[4E Homebrew|this page]]. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 09:17, 22 December 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
=== The 4e Movement ===<br />
<br />
I looked over the page and I feel there are a couple kinks to be worked out. First off do we want the pages being labeled as "4E" or "4e"? Secondly, which pages do we want to work with both editions? Should these pages keep the "DnD" while all the other pages would adopt a 3.5e or 4e, respectively, identifier? Thirdly, should we change the descriptions of the sub-pages to say which edition they cover or would that be redundant? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 11:35, 22 December 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:I think 4e, Maps, campaign settings, possibly deities (depending on changes), Environments, Possibly Quests and Disscussion could be shared, yes, they keep DnD, rest become 3.5e or 4e, yes the rest need to say edition sub-pages cover. Any thoughts? --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 13:34, 22 December 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::Yes. How can we make the newly implemented dpl on [[Dungeons and Dragons]] (thank you so much, Sledged) work with non-specific edition pages in all the main categories (for DM's, for Players, or General)? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 16:27, 24 December 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::Give pages that work for both two categories? --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 06:08, 27 December 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::[[DnD Campaign Settings|Campaign Settings]], [[DnD Links|Links]], [[DnD Guidelines|Guidelines]], etc. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 21:37, 27 December 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::Ok, I have done everything except the spells section and the SRD. I have made a 4e version of the pages that I was not sure of (quests and deities), and linked to both (we delete the 4e one if not required or remove the category if the 4e one is required). What do you think? --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 09:27, 23 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::One thing is that everything could be piped so it does not say "4e" all the time. I feel that if one is already on the 4e landing page then having 4e before everything would just come off as repetitive. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 11:19, 23 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::What do you mean? Like 4e Homebrew/Classes/Base Classes? --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 06:51, 24 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::::Not exactly. I was refering to things like [[4e Deities]] being piped to [[4e Deities|Deities]]. It just seems repetitive to be on the 4e page and have everything say 4e before it. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 17:43, 24 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::Ok. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 10:18, 25 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::::::[in a robotic voice] TASK COMPLETE. Are there any more tasks to be done on the 4e Homebrew section? --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 05:24, 27 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::Other than the spells section I really do not see anything else. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 10:20, 28 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::::::::Good. Shall we set up the 4e SRD section in the same way so we can just get on with transcribing it when 4e comes out? --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 06:58, 3 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::::I read somewhere that WotC will not be releasing a 4e SRD. I think we need verify or disprove this and then decide what to do from that point. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:47, 4 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
{{Discussion Indentation Revert}}<br />
<br />
:[http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4news/20080108a 4E SRD and OGL]. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 10:46, 4 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::"All of the material included in the OGL Designer’s Kit will be available for free starting on June 6, 2008. Parties who find the cost prohibitive can begin developing their products at that time." I guess that means we're able to have the SRD for 4e! --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 07:20, 5 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
===Vote===<br />
<br />
{| class="d20" style="text-align: left;"<br />
|+ 4e Solution &mdash; Voting (Please use "#" and extra lines to separate)<br />
! rowspan="2" | For making a new wiki to encompass 4e material !! colspan="6" | For keeping D&D Wiki as a whole, encompassing all editions !! rowspan="2" | Launch a book-burning party which has the goal of burning every 4e book<br />
|-<br />
! Think namespaces are the solution to 4e material !! Think categories are the solution to 4e material !! Think changing the identifier is the solution to 4e material !! Think changing the background color/skin is the solution to 4e material !! Think templates are the solution to 4e material !! Think that more than one of the aforementioned solutions is the best solution for 4e material (Please say which ones would work best together)<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
# [[User:Sledged|Sledged]] (w/ New Skin)<br />
# [[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] (What in the current wiki would we want to link to with 4e? That is the only reason I see for keeping it together... Besides usernames I suppose.)<br />
| <br />
# [[User:Sol|Sol]] <br />
# [[User:EldritchNumen|EldritchNumen]]<br />
| <br />
# [[User:Trogdor|Trogdor]]<br />
|<br />
|<br />
|<br />
|<br />
# [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] (Namespaces (for SRD material), Categories, Changing the identifier (for homebrew material))<br />
# [[User:Watsyurname529|Watsyurname529]] (Namespaces, Catagories)<br />
# [[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] (All the above)<br />
# [[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] (Namespaces, Categories)<br />
# [[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] (Namespaces, Skin)<br />
# [[User:Pirate-Sorcerer|Pirate-Sorcerer]] (Namespaces, Categories)<br />
# [[User:Daniel Draco|Daniel Draco]] (Namespaces, Categories)<br />
# [[User:OptimizationFanatic|OptimizationFanatic]] (Namespaces, Categories)<br />
|<br />
# [[User:xidoraven|xido]] (lacking respect for corporate global capitalism)<br />
# [[User:Othtim|othtim]] - I *like* ''finger of death''.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
::The option to destroy all D&D4e books in the world is not an option. I am upset about this --[[User:Mander|Mander]] 19:20, 30 November 2007 (MST))<br />
<br />
:::LOL! Of course we can't take that action, even if we want to! It is probably unlawful or something. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 05:12, 1 December 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::That option has been added ''';)'''. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 21:09, 2 December 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::'''LETS GO N' BURN THINGS!!!''' [loads AK47] '''UPRISING AGAINST THE 4E MENACE!!!''' --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 10:28, 3 December 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::So... tempted... to burn.... withholding... vote til I can... stop talking... like... Shatner... -- [[User:Eiji|Eiji]] 14:49, 11 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
== New Look ==<br />
<br />
I feel that it is high time that we had a new look for the [[Main Page]], for a number of reasons. One is to make it easier for the average user to understand how D&D Wiki is organized, another is so the [[Main Page]] looks nicer. Below is my proposed idea, which is still in the works. Also, I have a couple of questions about it. One, should we use DPL2C to determine the number of items in an area. For example around <DPL2C><br />
category=DnD<br />
order=ascending<br />
</DPL2C> items exist in [[Dungeons and Dragons]], should we display that below? Also, should we have bullets in front of the link to [[Dungeons and Dragons]], the [[System Reference Document]], etc? Does it look better or worse with them present? Finally, how is the wording of everything? What could be improved? (P.S. the below idea is not mine, it was stolen from [[User:Sledged|Sledged]]'s hard work making [[Dungeons and Dragons]] look nice&mdash;I do not want to take credit which I do not deserve) --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:23, 1 November 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:Yea, the above does look much nicer than the current Main Page, and I do agree it needs an update. As for showing how many things you have in each, that's not necessary but is interesting to see that we have 2900 Homebrew Items, if anything that might bring people in to see that this is a pretty big site and not just some random long forgotten website. --[[User:Watsyurname529|Watsyurname529]] 14:33, 1 November 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::I have added the number of items to the new look. Any other ideas? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 15:28, 1 November 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::This definitely clarified what information is contained in the sections. I would agree with implementing it. &mdash; <span style="color:#002137;">[[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] <small> ([[User_talk:Blue Dragon|talk]])</small></span> 15:34, 1 November 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::Let's absolutely add this. The main page definitely needs more information. I like it! &ndash;[[User:EldritchNumen|EldritchNumen]] 16:48, 1 November 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::I think that if we have 3.5e and 4e on this site, we should have the main page sperating out 3.5e and 4e, and pages for 3.5e and 4e like the above. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 11:56, 2 November 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::Yes, I agree. But that can be added once 4E comes out... &ndash;[[User:EldritchNumen|EldritchNumen]] 16:30, 2 November 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::I'm going to implement this now because I think it is so much better (and I want it as soon as possible). Please, though, continue to post comments here about any revisions we could do to make it look better! &ndash;[[User:EldritchNumen|EldritchNumen]] 16:32, 2 November 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::Yeah, I like it. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 04:38, 3 November 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::I removed the "d20M" in that SRD link since it is already under the header of d20M. However, I agree, it looks very good and thanks for implementing it. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:48, 3 November 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
{| cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" class="column"<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
; <big>Dungeons and Dragons</big><br />
* [[Dungeons and Dragons|Homebrew Content]]<div style="font-size: smaller; margin-left: 2em;">New classes, equipment, feats, races, creatures, deities, etc. (<DPL2C><br />
category=DnD<br />
order=ascending<br />
</DPL2C> items)</div><br />
* [[System Reference Document|The System Reference Document]]<div style="font-size: smaller; margin-left: 2em;">Everything published by WotC that we are allowed to have on D&D Wiki. (<DPL2C><br />
category=SRD<br />
order=ascending<br />
</DPL2C> items)</div><br />
; <big>d20 Modern</big><br />
* [[D20 Modern|Homebrew Content]]<div style="font-size: smaller; margin-left: 2em;">New classes, equipment, feats, races, creatures, deities, etc. (<DPL2C><br />
category=D20M<br />
order=ascending<br />
</DPL2C> items)</div><br />
* [[Modern System Reference Document|The System Reference Document]]<div style="font-size: smaller; margin-left: 2em;">Everything published by WotC that we are allowed to have on D&D Wiki. (<DPL2C><br />
category=MSRD<br />
order=ascending<br />
</DPL2C> items)</div><br />
|}<br />
<br />
====Main Page after 4e comes out====<br />
<br />
When 4e does come out, we could change it to this:<br />
<br />
; <big>Dungeons and Dragons</big><br />
* [[Dungeons and Dragons| 3.5e Homebrew Content]] | [[4e Homebrew| 4e Homebrew Content]]<div style="font-size: smaller; margin-left: 2em;">New classes, equipment, feats, races, creatures, deities, etc. (<DPL2C><br />
category=DnD<br />
order=ascending<br />
</DPL2C> items)</div><br />
* [[System Reference Document|The 3.5e System Reference Document]] | [[4e System Reference Doccument|The 4e System Reference Document]] | [[UA:Variant Rules|Unearthed Arcana]]<div style="font-size: smaller; margin-left: 2em;">Everything published by WotC that we are allowed to have on D&D Wiki. (<DPL2C><br />
category=SRD|Unearthed Arcana<br />
order=ascending<br />
</DPL2C> items)</div><br />
<br />
; <big>d20 Modern</big><br />
* [[D20 Modern|Homebrew Content]]<div style="font-size: smaller; margin-left: 2em;">New classes, equipment, feats, races, creatures, deities, etc. (<DPL2C><br />
category=D20M<br />
order=ascending<br />
</DPL2C> items)</div><br />
* [[Modern System Reference Document|The System Reference Document]]<div style="font-size: smaller; margin-left: 2em;">Everything published by WotC that we are allowed to have on D&D Wiki. (<DPL2C><br />
category=MSRD<br />
order=ascending<br />
</DPL2C> items)</div><br />
<br />
Any thoughts? --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 09:23, 23 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:Or this...?<br />
:; <big>Dungeons and Dragons</big><br />
:; Revised 3rd Edition<br />
:* [[Dungeons and Dragons|Homebrew]] <div style="font-size: smaller; margin-left: 2em;">New classes, equipment, feats, races, creatures, deities, etc. (<DPL2C><br />
category=DnD<br />
category=3.5e<br />
order=ascending<br />
</DPL2C> items)</div><br />
:* [[System Reference Document|The System Reference Document]] | [[UA:Variant Rules|Unearthed Arcana]]<div style="font-size: smaller; margin-left: 2em;">Everything published by WotC that we are allowed to have on D&D Wiki. (<DPL2C><br />
category=SRD|Unearthed Arcana<br />
category=3.5e<br />
order=ascending<br />
</DPL2C> items)</div><br />
:; 4th Edition<br />
:* [[4e Homebrew|Homebrew]] <div style="font-size: smaller; margin-left: 2em;">New classes, equipment, feats, races, creatures, deities, etc. (<DPL2C><br />
category=DnD<br />
category=4e<br />
order=ascending<br />
</DPL2C> items)</div><br />
:* [[System Reference Document|The System Reference Document]]<div style="font-size: smaller; margin-left: 2em;">Everything published by WotC that we are allowed to have on D&D Wiki. (<DPL2C><br />
category=SRD<br />
category=4e<br />
order=ascending<br />
</DPL2C> items)</div><br />
<br />
:; <big>d20 Modern</big><br />
:* [[D20 Modern|Homebrew Content]]<div style="font-size: smaller; margin-left: 2em;">New classes, equipment, feats, races, creatures, deities, etc. (<DPL2C><br />
category=D20M<br />
order=ascending<br />
</DPL2C> items)</div><br />
:* [[Modern System Reference Document|The System Reference Document]]<div style="font-size: smaller; margin-left: 2em;">Everything published by WotC that we are allowed to have on D&D Wiki. (<DPL2C><br />
category=MSRD<br />
order=ascending<br />
</DPL2C> items)</div><br />
:--[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 11:17, 23 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::Yeah, that is better than mine. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 06:52, 24 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::Is everyone okay with that look once 4e comes out? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:12, 24 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::I actually prefer Sam's layout although perhaps UA could have it's own line. --[[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 07:36, 5 March 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::I think Green Dragon's looks better. Sorry Sam ''';-)''' --[[User:Daniel Draco|Daniel Draco]] 08:38, 5 March 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::I don't mind. As I said earlier, I prefer GDs. I've had a thought; I think we could, and probably should, put the link to the 4th edition homebrew (and possibly the SRD, though we can't put it up yet, for obvious reasons) on the main page, because, as people in ENworld have proved, we have enough preveiw material from the PHB Lite (derived from the pregenerated characters and rogue preview) to make some powers, the 1st level for classes, and odd things here-and-there. As ENworld is already doing odd bits of 4e homebrew based on previews, we might as well provide a place for it to go now, rather than later. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 10:37, 18 April 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::Please see [[Talk:Main Page#4th Edition Link|below]]. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 00:17, 5 May 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== Should we make CAPTCHA's present after an IP edits? ==<br />
<br />
Recently a high level of automated spam has been attacking D&D Wiki in the form of inserting nonsense and gibberish into random pages. An example would be [[DnD Flaws]] as of 04:08, 1 November 2007 (MDT) as edited by [[Special:Contributions/200.226.134.53|200.226.134.53]] (permanent link [http://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=DnD_Flaws&oldid=159600 here]). I think the easiest way to stop this problem would be to provide [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captcha CAPTCHA's] every time an IP makes an edit. The only reason I am asking this is because I am not sure if it would be more beneficial or more harmful to have CAPTCHA's. Do you guys think that IP's would still correct spelling errors if they had to enter a CAPTCHA or would they deem it to difficult? Would it, even if the amount of edits performed by IP's decreased, be worth it? Any ideas would be appreciated. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:41, 1 November 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:Well, if they were just doing it because they were bored then having to spell the correct word to finalize the edit might prevent some people because they are just waaay to lazy. It would also prevent if anyone wanted to create a bot to spam content. Although, it would be annoying for me to have to do that every time I wanted to say, update my User Page with another new item. If you could disable it for users and not IP's, I think that would be a good try to cut down on the spam. --[[User:Watsyurname529|Watsyurname529]] 14:31, 1 November 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::The CAPTCHA's would ''only'' be for IP edits, not for when a user edits something. Anyway, that would be terrible if a user had to enter a CAPTCHA to edit something (the reason they would not have to is because to create an account one has to enter a CAPTCHA...) Also, as you may have noticed, all the recent spam attackes have been automated, so hopefully if this is implemented it should help with the problem... --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 14:44, 1 November 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::So yea, try it and we'll see if the spam goes down. --[[User:Watsyurname529|Watsyurname529]] 15:24, 1 November 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::I agree with this completely. Should I go ahead and put them in, or should we wait for more users to comment? &mdash; <span style="color:#002137;">[[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] <small> ([[User_talk:Blue Dragon|talk]])</small></span> 15:33, 1 November 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::Go for it ''':)'''. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 15:41, 1 November 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::Yeah. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 11:52, 2 November 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::Okay, it has been added. &mdash; <span style="color:#002137;">[[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] <small> ([[User_talk:Blue Dragon|talk]])</small></span> 20:50, 2 November 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::For some odd reason, i have had a captcha come up after all my edits today, despite the fact the captcha is only supposed to come up when an IP edits something (and I am logged in). Why is this, and can someone sort it please? Thanks. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 05:03, 3 November 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::This should not be happening. I would recommend doing the following: log out, clear your browser cache, clear your browser history, clear all cookies relating to D&D Wiki, restart your browser, and then log back in and see if it is still giving you troubles. If it is, then I will definitely look into this problem further. I am sorry for the inconvenience that this is causing you, and will try to get it sorted out as soon as is possible. &mdash; <span style="color:#002137;">[[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] <small> ([[User_talk:Blue Dragon|talk]])</small></span> 13:50, 3 November 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::::It has not worked. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 15:39, 3 November 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::Maybe you're an IP in disguise... ''':P'''. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 16:17, 4 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::::::::Err... no. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 11:55, 5 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::::Okay... Can I change your password (through the database) and login as you to asses the problem? I would like to see what is happening and hopefully give [[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] enough information to fix this very strange problem. Would this be okay with you? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:41, 5 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
{{Discussion Indentation Revert}}<br />
<br />
:Yeah, sure. Can you change my password back afterwards though, please? Thanks. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 08:11, 6 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::Am I the only one getting the problem? --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 08:23, 6 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::No, I also experienced this today with my edits. Although, I'm behind a corporate firewall here, so I don't know if that has anything to do with it. --[[User:Skwyd|Skwyd]] 09:25, 6 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::No, I've gotten one after every edit I've made, even if it was just adding one letter. --[[User:Watsyurname529|Watsyurname529]] 14:15, 6 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::Oops... I guess the setting was set so sysops were the only ones who did not have to give a CAPTCHA whereas everyone else did. The issue should now be fixed, and sorry about that... --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:22, 6 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::Much better. ''':D''' Now I can reformate the equipment section in peace. Which as an update I've finished nearly all the back to footers and have all but the magic weapons and over half the wondrous items updated to the MIC format. --[[User:Watsyurname529|Watsyurname529]] 20:42, 6 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::Yeah, sorted. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 11:59, 7 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::::Glad to hear it ''':)'''. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:44, 7 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
== Move towards new DPL ==<br />
<br />
Hello all, this site is running on a very outdated version of DPL, which has caused several hacks to have to be thrown together, and is potentially not allowing things to get done. When I upgraded this wiki to v11, I upgraded DPL as well, but most all pages that used DPL immediately stopped working. Is there an interest for me to get a test wiki running, and people can figure out how the DPL should be working, and then implement it? Or should we instead stick with what we have and wait until we really need the next version? &mdash; <span style="color:#002137;">[[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] <small> ([[User_talk:Blue Dragon|talk]])</small></span> 15:07, 7 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:I honestly have no idea what the DPL is. So could someone tell me what it is and/or what it does? Then I could answer your questions. --[[User:Watsyurname529|Watsyurname529]] 15:27, 7 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::What are the new features of the new DPL version? For most purposes, the DPLs seem to be working well, but I know we've especially had to hack some DPL2 stuff. Would the new version fix this? [Watsyurname529, DPLs are dynamically assembled lists generally based off of category tags, e.g. [http://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=User_Base_Classes&action=edit this code] yields [http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/User_Base_Classes this page].] &ndash;[[User:EldritchNumen|EldritchNumen]] 18:21, 7 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::I feel that we should implement the new dpl version. The DPL2 (at least according to [[User:Sledged|Sledged]]) would make it so we would not need three main different modifications of the dpl to be running on this site, the dpl, dplc, and the dpl2c (full list [[Special:Version|here]]). I think it would help D&D Wiki greatly to implement the newest version of the dpl, and make things easier for a new user to understand. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:48, 7 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::There's a demo site for DPL with a manual [http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=Main_Page here].<br />
::::Is there a way to get a list of all the pages using dpl*? —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 16:29, 8 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::[[MediaWiki:Pages using DPL]] is what True Orphans uses. &mdash; <span style="color:#002137;">[[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] <small> ([[User_talk:Blue Dragon|talk]])</small></span> 18:17, 8 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::It's only listing the pages in the main/default namespace. What about the SRD pages? —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 14:58, 13 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::The extension that page is for specifically excludes all SRD dpl pages, so those have never been added to that dpl list. We will have to compile a list on our own for SRD pages. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:54, 14 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::::I see. Also, when I said "pages using <tt>dpl*</tt>," I meant also the <tt>dpl2c</tt>, <tt>dplc</tt>, and <tt>dpl2cu</tt> tags. I don't see any of the pages using those tags listed. If those pages can be identified before hand, it'll make an upgrade a bit easier. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 12:48, 15 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::To answer [[User:EldritchNumen|EldritchNumen]]'s first question. This wiki is running version 0.7.7 of DPL2. The latest version is 1.5.2, so there is a significant number of changes. For brevity, I'll just list a few of the new features that apply to this wiki:<br />
:::*You can specify your own format for the output. For example you could list each result as a row in a table instead of getting the standard three column output.<br />
:::*In conjunction with the previous feature, DPL2 pull content from the listed pages for displaying as part of the output.<br />
:::*You can get results based on pages names and page content in addition to categories and namespaces. For instance, all the [[DnD Prestige Classes|user PrCs]] are assigned to the category beginning with the first letter of the page title. Those categories can be completely removed because DPL2 lets you return pages whose title's first letter matches one specified in the DPL2 call.<br />
:::*DPL2 can used to compensate for user error. Broken links like the one titled "Anima and Animus Mage" on the [[DnD Prestige Classes|user PrCs page]] can be eliminated.<br />
:::*With the latest version of DPL2 (an one other specific extension) users can create spell/feat/monster/etc filters like the one seen [http://www.penpaperpixel.org/tools/d20spellfilter/ here].<br />
:::*It can be used as a parser function (which I personally prefer over tags).<br />
:::*Pages that are linked to only from DPL calls are not listed as [[Special:Lonelypages|orphaned pages]].<br />
:::—[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 14:58, 13 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::Okay, lets do it. What are the changes that need to be made to dpl pages to make this not be broken when implemented? What is the best way of going about this change? Should we change the pages first, then implement it, or implement it then fix all the errors on the dpl pages? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:54, 14 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::There's one more complication to take into consideration; All the pages with the <tt>dpl*</tt> mod tags (<tt>dpl2c</tt>, <tt>dplc</tt>, and <tt>dpl2cu</tt>) have to be changed, not just list pages. So we'll have to go through all the class pages (base, prestige, npc, and racial paragon) and NPC pages. I think Blue's suggestion of a test wiki is the best way to do it. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 12:48, 15 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::It might not be necessary to set up a test wiki. I [http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=Issue:No_More_Globals submitted a request] over at the [http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=Main_Page DPL2 site] to transition all the globals to class members. If Gero decides to adopt it, the latest version and the currently installed version can be installed side-by-side without one conflicting with the other. The only caveat is that the line that reads<br />
<br />
::::::<pre>$wgParser->setHook( "DPL", array( __CLASS__, "dplTag" ) );</pre><br />
<br />
::::::in the new version will have to be commented out. This will disable using new version as a tag extension, but it will still be available as a parser function call; <tt>{<nowiki/>{#dpl:}}</tt>. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 12:23, 21 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::And [http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=Main_Page DPL2] version 1.6.0 (no more globals) has been released. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 09:42, 25 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::::Okay, I upgraded to the latest version. Let me know if there are any errors. &mdash; <span style="color:#002137;">[[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] <small> ([[User_talk:Blue Dragon|talk]])</small></span> 12:18, 25 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
=== A Small Sample ===<br />
<br />
So here's a sample list of the user base classes, which I've limited to the 'A's:<br />
<br />
{| class="d20" style="text-align: left;"<br />
|+ Homebrew Base Classes with Descriptions<br />
|- {{#vardefine:odd|0}}<br />
! Name !! style="text-align: center;" | Balance<sup>[[#1|1]]</sup> (out of 10) !! Type<sup>[[#2|2]]</sup> !! Description<sup>[[#3|3]]</sup><br />
{{#dpl:category=DnD<br />
|titlematch=A%<br />
|category=User<br />
|category=Base Class<br />
|include={Balance}:1,{x0}:type:desc<br />
|mode=userformat<br />
|format=,¦- ²{#vardefine:odd¦²{#ifexpr: ²{#var:odd}²¦0¦1}²}²²{#ifexpr: ²{#var:odd}²¦¦class="even"}²\n¦ [[%PAGE%¦²{#replace:%PAGE%¦(DnD Class)¦}²]]\n,,<br />
|tablerow=¦style="text-align: center;" ¦ ²{#if: %%¦%%¦NR}²,\n¦%%,%%\n<br />
}}|-<br />
| colspan="7" class="foot" |<br />
# <span id="1">Shows how balanced a certain Class is, the number is out of 10. The Balance rating is from the actual Class's page; it is not made on this page. More information [[Balance System|here]].</span><br />
# <span id="2">A general category the Class fits into. e.g. Strong Spellcasting, Combat Focused, etc.</span><br />
# <span id="3"> A concise description of the Class-- should advertise the Class.</span><br />
|}<br />
—[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 13:59, 27 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:I like it ''':)'''. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 21:27, 29 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:: The Alchemist... I don't know if i would consider it a spell caster --[[User:Cerin616|Cerin616, Drew]] 15:58, 11 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::Better now? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:20, 11 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
== 4,000th Item! ==<br />
<br />
Whoo! I just posted the 4,000th homebrew item on this site! Amazing how much stuff we've got on here. Just want to say congrats to everyone who's posted/edited here. Also here is the 4,000th item: [[Fried Frying Pan (DnD Equipment)|Fried Frying Pan]] --[[User:Watsyurname529|Watsyurname529]] 15:29, 7 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:If that number is correct.... ''':P'''. I think we may actually have more, they are just not categorized (that number is actually the number of items in [[:Category:DnD]]). Although, I agree. Congratulations all! --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:51, 7 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::Hey, it says 4000 Items on the main page and that's good enough for me ''':P''' to you too, lol. --[[User:Watsyurname529|Watsyurname529]] 20:56, 7 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::Meh... ''':)'''. Also, if you want to make that number more accurate please take a look at the [[Special:TrueOrphans|TrueOrphans]] (which may not be true&mdash;I think [[MediaWiki:Pages_using_DPL]] needs to be updated...). However, feel free to categorize those things and, overall, make things on D&D Wiki be linked to! --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 21:14, 7 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
==Sidebar Change==<br />
Dungeons and Dragons or Homebrew?<br />
<br />
The side bar has an option called "Dungeons and Dragons" that takes you to the Homebrew section. This seems to me to be misleading and should be changed to "Homebrew." This is not that big of a deal, but it would be more consistant. --[[User:Mander|Mander]] 15:09, 18 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:Actually, there's more than just homebrew material there (though the vast majority of it is homebrew). It also contains OGC from source books like ''Unearthed Arcana'', ''Relics and Rituals'', ''Creature Collection'', ''Monster Manual II'', and such. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 12:38, 21 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::Currently on the [[Main Page]] we call that entire section "Homebrew Content" even though it has more than just that (as [[User:Sledged|Sledged]] pointed out above). If we want to be nitpicky, that is also a problem. Anyway, the reason it is called "Dungeons and Dragons" on the sidebar is that the sidebar cannot have any real wiki-syntax. The ideal organization for that would be something like:<br />
::D&D<br />
:::[[Dungeons and Dragons|Homebrew]] (even though it's not all homebrew...)<br />
:::[[System Reference Document|SRD]]<br />
::D20M<br />
:::[[D20 Modern|Homebrew]] (even though it's not all homebrew...)<br />
:::[[Modern System Reference Document|MSRD]]<br />
::However, that is not possible. Since that is not possible we try to do the best we can, and that is the current way. Actually, this post has given me an idea... Maybe another box, labeled "D&D" and one labeled "D20M" could exist, with the links in them... --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 14:43, 25 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::I just changed it. What does everyone think? Better? Worse? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 14:45, 25 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::I dont mean to be picky. I also dont mean to make extra work for ya all. I just through out ideas when I have them. I like the change, but I also like the reasons given above for why it was the way it was. That is why I like wiki format. I hardly ever make changes, but I do add my ideas to disscution.--[[User:Mander|Mander]] 22:44, 29 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::I hesitate to bring it up, but I think it might be worth mentioning; The D&D section could be split up into "homebrew" and "published OGC" sections. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 12:07, 30 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::First off you were not a bother at all, [[User:Mander|Mander]]. The sidebar is very easy to change and it's always great to improve things. Anyway, I feel that as soon as we have enough published OGC material (we are reaching it though, if one counts NBoF as "published") then we should definitely spit "DnD" up into published OGC and Homebrew. However, right now I do not think we have enough... Maybe when all the UA material is posted we can give it a shot, but until then I do not think we have enough OGC content. Your thoughts? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:48, 4 December 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::: So many acronyms, so few ranks in knowlege-acronyms...--[[User:Mander|Mander]] 01:30, 5 December 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::Age of the internet. Soon everything we be reduced to acronyms, IMHO. [[Help:FAQ#What are OGL, OGC, SRD, and GNU FPL?|OGC]], [http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/welcome DnD], [http://datadeco.com/nbofeats/ NBoF], and [http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/881560000 UA] (which I really should finish transcribing). —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 02:31, 5 December 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::::::Actually, speaking of acronyms, it would be helpful to have a list of all the D&D acronyms in [[DnD Other]] (I am sure a list exists on the internet, it just needs to be copied over). Also, sorry about using all those acronyms above. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 16:31, 5 December 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
New question: Shouldn't the [[UA:Variant Rules|UA Transcript]] be linked in the sidebar? -- [[User:OptimizationFanatic|OptimizationFanatic]] 17:02, 16 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:It should. What should we call it, Unearthed Arcana, UA, Variant SRD, or what? Ideas? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:48, 16 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::Maybe UA: Variants? -- [[User:OptimizationFanatic|OptimizationFanatic]] 08:34, 17 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::: Or "UA Variant Rules." Either one works for me. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 11:00, 17 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::I have added it. Does it look okay? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:45, 18 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::Looks great! -- [[User:OptimizationFanatic|OptimizationFanatic]] 17:01, 21 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
== Maps? ==<br />
<br />
:''Discussion moved to [[Talk:Dungeons and Dragons#New Section: Maps?]]<small> It dealt with Homebrew specific material, not everything on the site --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:52, 4 December 2007 (MST)</small><br />
<br />
== Tavern Schedule ==<br />
<br />
Should a small Tavern Schedule be placed on the main page on the right side (floating)? &mdash; <span style="color:#002137;">[[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] <small> ([[User_talk:Blue Dragon|talk]])</small></span> 15:40, 15 January 2008 (MST)<br />
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:I think this is a good idea to increase use of the tavern, but it would be best if days that already had events planned were highlighted, a different text color, the only days with links, etc. They need to stand out; otherwise, I have to click each day to even see if there is anything that day. It almost seems to me that a mini-program/extension is needed to code that to make it more useful... still, the calendar is a great idea. That is the best suggestion I have heard to increase usage of the tavern. &ndash;[[User:EldritchNumen|EldritchNumen]] 16:35, 15 January 2008 (MST)<br />
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::The days that have events are blue. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:43, 15 January 2008 (MST)<br />
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:::Much better. I like it. &ndash;[[User:EldritchNumen|EldritchNumen]] 20:24, 15 January 2008 (MST)<br />
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== New Logo ==<br />
<br />
{| align="right" class="d20"<br />
|-<br />
! Submitted Logos:<br />
|-<br />
| ''Please submit your own logo!''<br/>[[dndmedia:Special:Upload|Upload it!]]<br />
|-<br />
| [[Image:D&D logo-test1.png|frame|From Maria C.]]<br />
|-<br />
| [[Image:D&D logo-test2.png|frame|From [[User:Xidoraven|Xidoraven]]]]<br />
|-<br />
| [[Image:D&D logo-test3.png|frame|Variation 1]]<br />
|-<br />
| [[Image:D&D logo-test4.png|frame|Variation 2]]<br />
|-<br />
| [[Image:Logo.png|frame|Current logo]]<br />
|}<br />
<br />
=== Official Updates ===<br />
<br />
Here is what will happen. A two week submission period will start now, after this time when more logos or variations have been submitted, a one week voting period will take place. So, right now, please upload all the variations of these logos or your own D&D Wiki logo and in two weeks time the D&D Wiki community will decide what the logo will become. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:57, 26 January 2008 (MST)<br />
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:The voting for which logo should become D&D Wiki's logo will start February 9th. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:13, 29 January 2008 (MST)<br />
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=== Voting ===<br />
<br />
{| class="d20" style="text-align: left;"<br />
|+ New Logo &mdash; Voting (Please use "#" and extra lines to separate votes)<br />
! [[Image:D&D logo-test1.png]]<br />
! [[Image:D&D logo-test2.png]]<br />
! [[Image:D&D logo-test3.png]]<br />
! [[Image:D&D logo-test4.png]]<br />
! [[Image:Logo.png]]<br />
|-<br />
! From Maria C.<br />
! From [[User:Xidoraven|Xidoraven]]<br />
! Variation 1<br />
! Variation 2<br />
! Current logo<br />
|-<br />
| <br />
#<br />
| <br />
# [[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]]<br />
# [[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]]<br />
# [[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]]<br />
# [[User:Daniel Draco|Daniel Draco]]<br />
# [[User:Young DM|Young DM]]<br />
# [[User:Arohanui|Arohanui]]<br />
# [[User:Othtim|Othtim]]<br />
# [[User:Mask man|Mask man]]<br />
# [[User:kreik|kreik]]<br />
# [[User:EaTCarbS|EaTCarbS]]<br />
# [[User:Lordsnarf|Lordsnarf]]<br />
| <br />
#[[User:Silver Dragon|Silver Dragon]]<br />
| <br />
#[[User:Hawk|Hawk]]<br />
#[[User:Pirate-Sorcerer|Pirate-Sorcerer]]<br />
#[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]]<br />
#[[Summerscythe]]<br />
#[[User:Wackymynd|Wackymynd]]<br />
#[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]]<br />
#[[User:EldritchNumen|EldritchNumen]]<br />
| <br />
#<br />
|}<br />
<br />
Everyone agree that we have reached a consensus? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 23:16, 24 February 2008 (MST)<br />
:Looks like we have to me 11/1/6 Xidoraven has a pretty big lead. [[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 23:40, 24 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::I believe that the vote looks pretty definitive. Please let me know if anyone ever gives you problems from Wizards.com or Hasbro, Inc. I am currently working with them in a professional capacity, so I will be able to speak for my work myself, and in direct communications to them. If they want my business, they will not harass this site for being loyal consumers and fans of a popular product line. Best of wishes to you all.<br />
::GD, if you have any more input on what we talked about before, please let me know by email. I am having a hard time getting back here to check on my pages right now. -- [[User:Xidoraven|xido]] 08:03, 25 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::Changed. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 21:24, 26 February 2008 (MST)<br />
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::::Looks good, everyone. Thanks for the support, and let me know if you need any other design ideas, since you may feel the need in the future to reconsider color usage, etc. Are there any ideas for what would be placed in the background area, if not the current Player's Handbook image? -- [[User:Xidoraven|xido]] 00:39, 11 March 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
=== General Discussion on Submitted Logos ===<br />
<br />
We have had two submissions for a new logo. One of them is from [[User:Xidoraven|Xidoraven]], and the other is from Maria C. Both of them are shown below, and we should decide to either keep the current logo or change to one of these. Please leave feedback. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 15:04, 23 January 2008 (MST)<br />
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:I like the second one. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 15:05, 23 January 2008 (MST)<br />
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::I vote for Xidoraven's. I like colorful. --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 15:06, 23 January 2008 (MST)<br />
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:::I wonder what the first would look like with a bit more color. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 15:10, 23 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::I really like the dragon on the first logo, however I feel that the wording on that logo may be a little hard to read. So, I think it may look very nice if both the trial logos were merged into one. The "D&D Wiki" would be cut out of the first logo and the "D&D Wiki" text from xido's image would be pasted over it, albeit a little smaller. Does anyone think this idea has some merit? Is it worth exploring further? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 15:35, 23 January 2008 (MST)<br />
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:::::Variation 2 is great! I give that my vote. --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 16:23, 23 January 2008 (MST)<br />
:::::On second thought... I like Variation 1. Arrrg... It is difficult because the logo seems too big with the dragon, yet too small at the same time. --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 16:24, 23 January 2008 (MST)<br />
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::::::I like variation 2, except the logo should be moved a bit down and right so that the entire graphic is a bit more square (lest the words encroach on the dragon picture)... &ndash;[[User:EldritchNumen|EldritchNumen]] 06:06, 24 January 2008 (MST)<br />
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:::::::Variation 2 OR Xidoravens. Either way, it's really cool! A new logo for a new edition... --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 06:46, 24 January 2008 (MST)<br />
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::::::::Variation 2 has me as well. Also, if anyone wants to compile their own variation or make their own logo please do! We need all the options we can get! --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 17:56, 24 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::My wife votes Xidoravens ''':P'''. I'm actually really not sure. I like Variation 1, 2, and Xidoravens... Perhaps we should set up an official vote? --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 18:01, 24 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::::::Is there going to be an "official vote" (whatever that may mean)? Variation 2 is my preferences, and I agree that it would likely look even better with the dragon picked out in red and gold. Also, whichever one is chosen, is it kosher for me to slap the logo up places (such as my blog) linking back to the wiki, as a means of promotion? --[[User:Arohanui|Arohanui]] 01:03, 26 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::I've gotta agree, but with xido's colors, I wouldn't mind seeing the dragon colored as a [[SRD:Half-Dragon|half-gold dragon]] [[SRD:Red Dragon|red dragon]]. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 21:39, 24 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::::::::First off I agree, if the dragon was given some color this entire logo could come out very sharp. Secondly, xido, tell me if I am wrong. You are basically saying that you would be okay to work with the dragon image if Maria C. has the same intentions you have of modifying D&D iconic images for a good cause. Since I cannot speak for Maria C. I will contact her and ask her to join this discussion to help discuss her logo and the final outcome of D&D Wiki's logo. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 00:19, 25 January 2008 (MST)<br />
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:::::::::::::I agree with Blue Dragon. As for my vote for the logos, I like the two combinations, particularly the second one. -- [[User:OptimizationFanatic|OptimizationFanatic]] 09:37, 26 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
{{Discussion Indentation Revert}}<br />
<br />
:I also have to say, I really like the dragon in the middle of Xido's logo. I think that using his for the top logo, and then Maria's for a softer logo, potentially on the main page, could be used. However, I feel that a voting period should exist. &mdash; <span style="color:#002137;">[[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] <small> ([[User_talk:Blue Dragon|talk]])</small></span> 10:30, 26 January 2008 (MST)<br />
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::Definitely Version two and It shouldn't be changed a bit the black and white dragon behind the blazing dnd wiki looks awesome but as a second choice id go for Xidoraven's logo by itself<br />
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:::I like Xidoraven's original logo. [[User:Kimmuriel|Kimmuriel]] 18:39, 14 February 2008 (MST)<br />
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:::: Xidoraven for prez! --[[User:Othtim|Othtim]]<br />
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:::::I would make a terrible president. I would prefer project coordinator, or community shaman, but not something as pop-culture as presidente. ;) -- [[User:Xidoraven|xido]] 07:18, 16 February 2008 (MST)<br />
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Okay, how do i put my name on variation 2, that my fav :D - [[User:Zombiecow|Zombiecow]]<br />
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=== Authors Comments and Discussion ===<br />
<br />
Font size is highly important in a logo concept, especially when they are sized down this much. I designed the font spacing and proportions with that in mind. Also, though I enjoy the integration of the two (trust me, my inner artist is inspired - not jealous), it seems a little busy, and the dragons look dim compared to the heavy vibrancy I put into the original 4e-based concept. I know it sounds haughty and rude, but I choose my own. If Miss Maria would be willing to revise her concept, I think they would more accurately meld. Her design would need the words removed fully, and would require a splash of color (like a layer over it, that appears like watercolor, or an expressive way of 'filling in the lines'). The logo I created has heavier contrast even than that of the original 4e logo design. I had not anticipated it being integrated with another black-and-white (or blank) portion. Had I known, I might have prepared an alternative. -- [[User:Xidoraven|xido]] 21:30, 24 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:As a second thought: Here's my other dilemma.<br />
:I do not know Miss Maria, but I know that her artwork is based on Lockwood's, and that is a blatant copyright infringement of one of the most controversial materials produced by Wizards: Commissioned Artwork. ([http://wizards.com/dnd/images/MM35_gallery/MM35_PG76.jpg])<br />
:I am well aware of the fact I pulled a concept from 4e D&D corporate design, knowing full well that it might bring a lawsuit upon me. I am also communicating with the makers of Scrabulous (Scrabulous.com) currently, because I feel that what is happening right now with their product is an issue in international business ethics. I openly state that my work is a mere pseudo-forgery of Wizards own internally-produced corporate graphics, but I appreciate and respect Mr. Lockwood for being such a professional artist in his field, and cannot openly condone utilizing his work in our own endeavors. If the piece was just a tad different from the Red Dragon's stance or appearance, I could see over-looking it, but this is something that is necessary for an artist to understand up-front. I openly admit to pirating the official 4e logo design from Wizards for a good cause, but I would hope that Miss Maria would be able to do the same in her position.<br />
:That being said, the general concensus on what constitutes 'unique artwork' is at least 15% difference from the original piece. Though she has flipped the image on its vertical axis, and turned detailed painting into rough black outlines, I would think it would need just a ''tad'' more work done to it to be considered anything other than outright plagiarism. If Miss Maria is aware of my own intentions, and has the same goals of her own, then I can look the other way. I would prefer to go down alone if I am to go down as an artist. At least this way, no one can say that you paid me for my services, but that I instead gave them openly as a professional operating in the open-source markets under the GNU license.<br />
:That's my last piece. -- [[User:Xidoraven|xido]] 22:09, 24 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::Hello, this is Maria. First of all, I am not Miss Maria as you have taken a fancy of calling me. Second, I created this wood engraving without the knowledge of what's copyrighted and what is not. Green Dragon is family friend and has been nagging me for months to create a logo understanding that I am a graphic design artist. He handed me d&d books and asked me to make a logo. So I choose something cool, changed it, carved it, printed it, modified it on the computer. Green Dragon did not give any advice for this, only that it needed to be done. I wasn't told of anything so I am sorry for the copyright infringement. I also created this logo not for a profit such, but for this 'community' which may be considered a good cause since I get not one thing out of it. And xudo, you need to work on being respectful. You seem jealous that someone else has submitted artwork and that you aren't the only one with fame. 'Artists' are so competitive and always trying to be the best with their noses in the air. -Maria {{Unsigned|Xuthukzaklath|15:16, 25 January 2008 (MST)}}<br />
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:::As a friendly site note to all, I vote that the attacks should stop. This should be a logo design competition in which '''the best''' logo is chosen. There is no need to either of the creators to bicker. &mdash; <span style="color:#002137;">[[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] <small> ([[User_talk:Blue Dragon|talk]])</small></span> 09:35, 26 January 2008 (MST)<br />
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::::I highly agree, BD.<br />
::::I just wanted to make my comments publicly known. I have absolutely no problem with the mods of this site asking multiple artists for their ideas. I am glad that you have put forward as well. That is how professional art works. Everyone puts forward what they have to give, and then the leaders decide which works best for what they'd like to portray the project. In this case, there were two options, plus the idea of combining. I have not a single problem with any of those ideas, and in fact wish for the mods to make their own decision. As an artist, I may seem biased. In fact, my words (including the word 'blatant') may have had a negative ring or tone to them, but I assure you that my mental inflection did not.<br />
::::I only want to make everyone aware that I have taken multiple considerations into effect in stealing elements of Hasbro's corporate logo in order to promote this open-source site's mission of helping the public. I have a SERIOUS issue with Hasbro & Mattel's current intellectual property campaign at the moment, as well as their business ethics toward third-party producers of copyrighted content. This is because of the legal drama happening with Scrabulous.com. It is for this reason that I am openly providing my professional services to the mods of this site, in order to help them, just as you, Maria, have done. I respect your position and comments. Please just know that I wanted my input to be put out there, in case you were not aware of the legal implications of that particularly recognizable image (the red dragon literally is '''''the most''''' reproduced dragon in D&D as of this year, in terms of rulebook, supplemental, and related material to the D&D brand line. To utilize this image would be a very risky and potentially harmful venture. That is my only point here. If you are okay with that risk, I am okay with it. But please note that the reasons for THAT piracy is not in any way the same as the professional stance I am making by utilizing corporate branding material from Hasbro, as opposed to the very highly recognizable works of Mr. Lockwood, whom I revere admirably as an artist.<br />
::::On a sidenote, I assumed that being a Maria, that you are a female. I could be wrong here. In the state of Louisiana, where I have recently moved to, it is customary for men in particular to respectfully call a woman of any form (whether married, divorced, single, or otherwise) 'Miss Whoever'. I was merely trying to be courteous. I hope I have not offended. That was not my intent.<br />
::::Thanks for understanding, all, and I hope that the Mods can make an adequate decision on the logo design. I would not like to seem biased, so I will leave it all up to you, having said my piece. Best wishes, -- [[User:70.172.234.38|70.172.234.38]] 19:59, 10 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::PS - I don't want to seem pushy, but I have always had a hard time voting on this site. Perhaps making a username profile on Elftown.com, and seeing the way their own polls are set up might give you ideas for future changes. Privacy features, public features, wiki-features, and a pseudo-html are all able to be used there. I have had some really good success with hosting polls on Elftown to get input or for contests of any multiple-choice form. -- [[User:70.172.234.38|70.172.234.38]] 19:59, 10 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
=== Legality of Images ===<br />
<br />
As to the copyright issues, I believe that the background of our skin is a WoTC copyrighted image. I feel that if we receive a cease and desist letter they will be removed, but beyond that, I feel that it should not be a major issue. Also, I have another interesting idea. I think that Xidoraven's is powerful, and in that sense alone looks quite nice. Would there be any major consideration to have the background of the main page be this dragon, or something similar? A watermark, so to speak? The second combination could also potentially be modified by Xidoraven, seeing that he would know what to do for D&D Wiki's purposes. &mdash; <span style="color:#002137;">[[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] <small> ([[User_talk:Blue Dragon|talk]])</small></span> 09:40, 26 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:Actually, both the skin and the logos would be covered under the free use clause of international copyright law, as it is neither being used to make money nor infringes the copyright holder's ability to sell goods. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 10:53, 26 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::Sam, I just want to say a quick word about free use (I know you like it, so I won't be too harsh). Essentially, the clause is the "wiggle room" in an otherwise extremely strict copyright law and allows for things like academic criticism, etc. However, exactly what constitues "fair use" and what constitutes "unfair use" is loosely defined in the law, and it is important that you know that the United States judicial system has historically ruled very strictly against those parties who (in their eyes) abuse the clause. So, we should tread a bit softly. However, as was said above, if we (Green Dragon, actually) is issued a cease and desist order from any company (such as those owning HALO and LotR, for example, or especially from Hasbro) then we will have to delete the content. Basically, I just want it to be noted that fair use is limited, especially within the widely respected bounds of legal precedent, so don't be too sure that certain images, etc. can be freely used under "fair use." Further, the likelyhood of abuse increases as more information is added. Thus, if I were to quote a line from the PHB as evidence in an argument, that would certainly pass litmus. The more direct and derivative information that is added, though, the more likely it is that infringement will ensue. (Please also note that all material and information derived from a copyrighted source is also [partially] owned by that source, which includes information and rules we might create for use in, for example, the HALO setting). A final note: Wizards of the Coast is renowned for its aggressive pursual in copyright infringement cases after inherited issues involving TSR, Palladium, and certain other companies, a historical precedent that everyone here should be aware of. In any case, please keep in mind that so long as there are no legal actions served we should be okay (this site is not for profit thus far, though if we begin to earn revenue from advertising this will importantly change), but&mdash;if the issue comes to a head&mdash; we will most definitely be on the losing side and will have to remove content or face court action. &ndash;[[User:EldritchNumen|EldritchNumen]] 09:22, 29 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::I was aware of that. I had to do quite abit of research into it when I did LotR. I do think, however, that as there are Wikias for both LotR and Halo, neither of which have yet been sued, the CSs in question should be fine. Although the dragon thing is a definatly something we should think over carefully. Although, as we are only considering a logo, the risk is small (I think). So, yes, those things are fine for now and we can remove them if we get into trouble. The biggest problem with free use is definatly it's vagueness. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 10:05, 29 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
== Protection of Pages ==<br />
<br />
You know this isnt much of a wiki since everything is editblocked.if someone vandalizes a page u REVERT it [[User:Zau|Zau]] 03:12, 29 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:? Of course we revert it! Why should we let our work be spoiled by vandal? All wiki's revert vandallism. The point of a wiki is to work together to improve the whole thing, rather than to reck the whole thing by vandalism. And about those editblocked pages- those are mostly SRD, which is official material that we aren't allowed to whimsically edit. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 06:49, 29 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::I have unlocked this page to IP edits, we will see what happens. Also, the SRD's protection is up in the air right now, if all goes well with the new UA material on D&D Wiki (which, even though it is OGC, is only protected from IP edits) then the SRD may very well become protected only from IP edits as well. If you are referring to specific GNU FLD homebrew pages that are protected, they are only protected because the author of the page is question has asked them to be protected. They will never become un-protected unless the author wishes this to happen. I hope this helps answer your question as to why so many pages on D&D Wiki are protected. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:03, 29 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
== Index of True Dragons ==<br />
<br />
:''Discussion moved to [[Talk:True Dragon Index#Location?]]<small> as it dealt with that page. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:25, 8 February 2008 (MST)</small><br />
<br />
== Published Settings ==<br />
<br />
Hi I was wondering does anyone know whether it would be legal to publish information about old dnd settings on here or homebrew stuff for those settings ie: planescape or spelljammer? also would it be legal to do the same for the still in print settings like forgotten realms and eberron? and would anyone else be interested in stuff like this? [[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 22:42, 7 February 2008 (MST)<br />
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:New settings = no. Not allowed, as they aren't under the OGL (I think...). Old ones I'm not sure about. -- [[User:OptimizationFanatic|OptimizationFanatic]] 22:28, 8 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::Probably not. The old stuff isn't under the OGL. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 13:03, 10 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::If it is licensed under the [[OGL]] please add them, however I do not think any of them are... --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 23:43, 10 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::I'm pretty sure It is technically not allowed unless we want to make fun of them in which case it falls under fair use in the copyright acts of the world lol. Does anyone know how we could find out for sure? [[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 06:42, 11 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::They cannot be added. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:08, 11 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
== Semantic MediaWiki ==<br />
<br />
I do not pretend to understand this nor what it would take to implement but would it be possible to use something like [http://ontoworld.org/wiki/Semantic_MediaWiki] to create forms to make adding entries for new users easier. there are a number of entries that need to be formatted if a form formatted the entries for them this problem may be fixed. Although it would only help at page creation its a start. Any thoughts?<br />
<br />
I should point out the form wouldn't replace editing the code directly just allow another option for those who have no idea how to format. Which means those who like to stare down the face of a page of code (myself included) could still do so. [[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 02:25, 10 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:I've briefly grazed over that extension, and I've yet to take it for a test run, but I think you're right that there may be some useful nuggets along with the semantic forms extension (which requires semantic wiki). I'd been meaning to ask [[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] or [[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] to take it for a spin in development environments and give input on it. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 10:36, 10 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::I think it would be useful only problem is that it needs to be added to dnd wiki then someone has to make the forms, it's a fair amount of work. [[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 21:29, 10 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantic_MediaWiki About]. Not sure if this is really what we are looking for... It, as far as I can tell, would just help with dynamic categories and act a little like the dpl2c feature we currently use. I think an external script for adding things (as [[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] is working on) may be a better option. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 23:10, 10 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::My apologies I was unclear on what I meant I'm lucky Sledged knew what I meant. Its not the semantic wiki itself that I am interested in but the [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Semantic_Forms Semantic forms extension]. As far as I understand it it allows you to 'simply' create a form to fill out and will take care of the wiki coding for you. If you scroll down to the Special Pages heading and look at the examples it will give you a better idea of what this is. [[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 23:24, 10 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::I agree with you, that is a very interesting extension, and I could see it being very useful here on D&D Wiki. The only problem I see is that, although impressive, it requires a Semantic Wiki as a prerequisite. I am not sure I would want D&D Wiki to become a Semantic Wiki, although the decision is not mine it is the communities. Maybe someone could change the code so a Semantic Wiki is not needed and it can work within the normal MediaWiki environment? That would make it quite a bit more appealing ''':)'''. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 00:59, 11 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::I have not read all the material and probably wouldn't understand most of it anyway I believe it would be beyond my ken, my knowledge of wikis and php is limited. What would be involved in implementing this do you think? What would 'becoming a semantic wiki' do? You seem to have reservations I'm just wondering if there are draw backs you foresee? [[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 06:25, 11 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::I gave a look at Semantic Wiki and I think it is a great idea. In my experience as a technical writer, duplication of information is one of the Prime Evils. Namely, here was the criteria that led me to really want to add dpl to races and now feats:<br />
:::::::*All information about a particular topic should be in the same location.<br />
:::::::*Updating information should update other pages that use that information.<br />
:::::::Where I work, we use a form of documentation source files called DocBook. DocBook is much like this wiki where information must be repeated because there is no inclusion mechanism. There is another form of documentation source, which we are considering switching to after the next release of our software. This format is called Dita. Dita allows you to segment information into sections which can be included directly by other pages. This concept is partially similar to Semantic Wiki, but I would argue, less powerful. Semantic Wiki allows you to tag information as a particular type of information. It might be a little more work to create a page, but all of the sudden we have so much more power to categorize our information.<br />
:::::::On a race page, for example, we can have a "quick synopsis" type of data which users would use for a sentence that describes the race. The page could also have an "ability score adjustment" type of data and a "level adjustment" type of data. All of the x0 templates I put on the top of race pages would be unnecessary at this point. The advantage being: if a user updates the source of the race (ie: changes the Ability score adjustments from +2 str to +2 con), it will automatically change the race table without requiring the x0 template at the top of the page to be changed. This means that the information displayed in the tables will always be true to the source.<br />
:::::::The big problem with Semantic Wiki is that it would be a LOT of work from the startup. Probably a few months of work if we want to fully integrate it. So no matter how great I think the idea is, it is probably not a feasible or worthwhile one to integrate.<br />
:::::::Now [[User:Hawk|Hawk]], you seem to be interested in the same thing that I am (and in fact something I have been working on). You want some sort of form based generator that will automatically format the pages after you supply some information. I have almost finished an NPC Generator, which should be promising. I just need to add in spellcasting, epic spellcasting, and special abilities. Forms can always be done directly in php and linked to. --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 07:14, 11 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::::This forms extension allows you to not only create a page but edit it using the forms as far as I can tell. I do not know if your PHP pages can do that but if they do it creates a slight issue on the off chance that someone is editing the page on the wiki and on the form the wiki edit would be wiped over when you save the form as it is working directly with the database (I assume). Where as using this forms extension your still working within the wiki and it will prompt you like normal that there is a conflict (yet again I assume) and the situation can be remedied. I do not know exactly what semantic wiki does but the benefits of the forms extension as I understand them are:<br />
::::::::* Creation and editing of pages through forms<br />
::::::::* Users can create their own forms 'easily'<br />
::::::::* Those new to wiki's can use these forms and the page will be automatically wikified which means very little formating will be required afterwards.<br />
::::::::* The fact your filling in a form rather than code means that it's less daunting for the new user and they are more likly to contribute.<br />
::::::::* Organization of Dnd Wiki can easily be improved as categories can be added automatically to entries by use of the forms.<br />
::::::::[[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 08:01, 11 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::What I have been working is only for initial creation, though at some point I would like to have an "import feature". If we had it all form based, however, people would not learn wiki syntax, which is a powerful syntax in its own right. Is that a bad thing? I'm really not sure. Templates can also automatically add categories though.<br />
:::::::::I still don't understand exactly how a wiki works on the back end, and I am actually going to toy with Media Wiki and Semantic Wiki (with the forms extension) tonight. I will see if I can integrate an application with the wiki directly, while still preserving the wiki ways (as an edit not an overwrite). I will also see how easy it is to create a semantic wiki form. Not that my input is even close to the be-all and end-all of this discussion, but I would like to share what I learn with the community. I hope that Semantic Wiki is very easy to use and the forms feature is as well. Good call making note of it! --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 10:28, 11 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::::::Personally I love coding I'm a nerd I admit it lol, but what it keeps coming down to for me is not everyone does and allowing those people to add and edit their creations on here would be awesome. And the forms extension seems to be the quickest, easiest and most effective way of doing that. Let me know how you go with the testing it will be interesting to see if it performs as well as I am hoping. [[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 10:36, 11 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::Did you end up trying this out Aarnott? [[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 21:09, 21 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::::::::Short answer: yes. Long answer: I think I messed up on the install because I'm getting some strange errors thrown during runtime (like when I access the localhost server). I'm going to uninstall everything today and retry it (no work or school today -- yay!). Third time is a charm ''':)'''. --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 08:37, 22 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::::So it ended up being an easy thing to install and I was just being dumb ''':P'''. I have got a few form examples working and I think it is a really sweet extension, but there is a major problem that really limits the Semantic Form usage. The form must be used to fill a template (at least from my knowledge using their built-in form generator). This poses a problem if we wanted to have users fill in a race page for example. They could only fill out the author template and x0 template (or Race template if we replace that), but the point stands that there are limitations. Semantic Wiki on its own though looks like a really great extension and the forms extension would be good to use at least for some pages. All the work I have done with races, for example, can be made a lot better by tagging particular parts of an article. If we can get the form extension working in the ideal way, then new users will never create a poorly formatted page. I say go for the installs. They definitely don't hurt and in fact I will start a project to tag all the races so we can get rid of templates to store information. --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 11:30, 22 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
{{Discussion Indentation Revert}}<br />
<br />
:Okay, we can give it a go. I will have [[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] install it when he answers me back. Also, I am a little confused as to what you are saying above. Can we or can we not get rid of the [[Template:x0]] on the races' pages with this extension? I thought this made it so one can "tag" certain parts of an article and have those "tags" show up on a different page as well (like a split [[Template:x0]] (just like [[DnD Deities|Deities]] is currently organized)). --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 11:38, 22 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::We can get rid of any templates we use that duplicate information already in the article (such as x0). What happens is we create properties which are used to identify information. So in the case of a Race, we would have a property called "Ability Score Adjustments" or something like that and tag the section directly in the article that refers to the ability score adjustments. Instead of using dpl to grab template information, we use semantic wiki to grab the "Ability Score Adjustment" directly from the page. The main advantage in my opinion is that when you update a page, you only have to change information once and then the tables update. It will be some work though (thus why it would become a project for me), but Semantic Wiki does not change existing wiki functionality, which is a very good thing. --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 11:45, 22 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::I installed WAMP (appache server + php + mysql latest stable versions) on my vista ultimate machine last night and then installed media wiki semantic and the forms extension I had no trouble it installed perfectly (apart from me stupidly trying to instal semantic forms with a mysql user that didn't have permission to create tables). I have been fiddling around a little havnt had much time though. Here's what i've figured out:<br />
:::# You create properties like string, page or date first<br />
:::# Then create templates (using the template making tool that comes with the forms) I made a author template and a very quick deity template.<br />
:::# then you make a form. You pick Author click add. then you click deity and click add (you can create forms which use more than one template!)<br />
:::# name the form then save<br />
:::# when you go to the form it will ask for a page name type one in like "MyDeity (DnD Deity)" hit enter<br />
:::# you are then taken to the form you fill it out it makes the page as per the templates it works as described !!! :O<br />
:::# you can even edit the page again using the form !!!<br />
::: [[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 19:11, 22 February 2008 (MST)<br />
::::There is one thing though semantic wiki adds a box at the bottom of the page "Facts about..." if it can be removed i'd be happier. [[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 19:16, 22 February 2008 (MST)<br />
:::::I just realized it would be relatively easy to turn our current preloads into templates add a few bits of code you have a compatible template to make a form for and if you edit the template EVERY SINGLE CREATURE, DEITY OR CLASS (that uses that template) IS EDITED AS WELL!!! meaning we decide we want the classes to look like (insert format here) we can instantly change them all at once!!! [[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 19:36, 22 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::The problem lies in the fact that we will have to change every single homebrew page. I'm up for the challenge (as long as it takes), but help will be nice if you are willing ''':)'''. It does seem pretty nifty though. --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 20:20, 22 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::I do not want this extension if the "Facts about" (or whatever it is called) is present. Is there a way to remove it? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:07, 22 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::::I am more than happy to help. What we need is to create the forms and templates so that all new entries use them. then start changing things over slowly, On the plus side if it takes awhile to convert the old stuff its not so bad as they will look exactly as they do now until we get to them. Perhaps we should consider moving this discussion onto it's own page before this page gets so large it destroys the Internet. I would also suggest holding off on installing it until we've fiddled some more to see what effect it has on the wiki like the damn facts about table. [[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 22:10, 22 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::I should point out the facts about table is only present on pages that use semantic data so if we did instal it it wouldnt effect anything until we started to make pages with semantic data on them. [[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 22:14, 22 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::::::This is an image of an author table I created useing a form [http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/6099/66402195ri6.jpg]<br />
::::::::::Notice it looks exactly the same as our current author table. Below is the form:<br />
::::::::::[http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/5454/36613376en2.jpg] [http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/766/83147904gr7.jpg] <br />
::::::::::Notice on the form the date field it is contextual so all dates on author pages will have the same format so yet more consistency [[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 23:03, 22 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::First off, what is that operating system your using... please don't say Vista ''';)'''; Ubuntu überalles. Anyway, again, is there anyway to remove the "facts about" box? If that can be removed this will be installed right away. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 21:47, 24 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::::::::I'm afraid so I use (and like) Windows Vista Ultimate Version 6.0.6000 Build 6000. Ok I have figured out how to get rid of the factbox (that's its official name) you need to edit "SMW_Settings.php" in the folder "[wiki folder]\extensions\SemanticMediaWiki\includes". this line "$smwgShowFactbox = SMW_FACTBOX_NONEMPTY;" needs to be changed to "$smwgShowFactbox = SMW_FACTBOX_HIDDEN;" and this line "$smwgShowFactboxEdit = SMW_FACTBOX_NONEMPTY;" needs to be changed to "$smwgShowFactboxEdit = SMW_FACTBOX_HIDDEN;". Pages that were created with semantic data on them before you change these lines seem to keep the factbox for some reason on my machine so those settings should be changed as soon as the extension is installed. [[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 23:35, 24 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::::I've put my project of wikifying entries on hold until we figure all this out because if we decide to edit the old entries so they use the forms templates I'll be doubling up on work. If we make semantic templates out of the preloads the articles made with forms will look like our current entries but if we want the old entries to get layout updates automatically like the new entries will be able to we will have to change all the old entries. As [[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] says it will be a mammoth task but in the end I think the benefits are worth it. --[[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 23:45, 26 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
{{Discussion Indentation Revert}}<br />
<br />
:Is there an ETA for Blue Dragon to put this on the server? I'm eager to work on using the Semantic features! --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 12:36, 27 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::It should be done now! ''':)''' &mdash; <span style="color:#002137;">[[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] <small> ([[User_talk:Blue Dragon|talk]])</small></span> 22:45, 28 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::I say lets start with [[LA 8 Races]]. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 23:22, 28 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::Okay, so [[Form:DnD Equipment]] was created, however the category issue and the identifier issue still needs to be solved. Any ideas on how to fix these problems? Also, I feel this would be a lot easier if two edit boxes worked on a form, however it seems they do not. Any ideas on how to circumvent this, or can two of them work on a form somehow? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 01:16, 29 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::: Sorry GD but I don't have a clue what your asking. --[[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 05:39, 29 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::[[Form:DnD Equipment]] now includes categories, I do not know all the categories for subtype ie: outfits armor etc and the way i've written it you can only have one type category and one subtype category if someone wants to find a way around that be my guest and could someone who knows all the categories add a list to [[Property:Item Subtype]] for me the list should be written like [[Property:Item Type]]. I made some properties for the author template so we could use the new semantic search functionality to search for say all pages with me as the author but the template wasn't working properly after I added them so I reverted the edit I'll try to get it to work later but if someone else wants to try be my guest. --[[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 07:04, 29 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::::P.S. Sorry about littering the recent changes pages with all those edits its hard to tell what an edit will do when your working on a template and form at the same time and changes to a form cant be seen through the preview button (because you only see the page title input box). also feel free to delete the page entitled test. --[[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 07:09, 29 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::P.P.S. I have added code to Category:Equipment so that any page using that category will have a tab at the top "Edit with form" which will send you to the equipment form. This will allow novices to edit their page without having to edit code and will allow us to edit the old pages so they use the form now. --[[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 07:34, 29 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::::::I have deleted the "Edit with Form" option &mdash; I want people to learn wiki syntax. Blue Dragon also implemented this, however I am not a fan. Deleted. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 10:55, 29 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::Are you sure you want to enforce that? The whole purpose of wiki-markup is so that users don't have to know HTML to created and edit pages. Semantic Forms takes it one step further by narrowing the amount of wiki-markup a user has to use. It seems a bit counter-intuitive to actively require users to learn the wiki syntax. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 11:23, 29 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::::::::This "edit with form" thing might help improve the formatting of pages made by new or non-users. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 11:55, 29 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
{{Discussion Indentation Revert}}<br />
<br />
:Damn you [[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ''';)''', you're very right. Okay, I guess we can have them... It's just that I do not want a generation of users not learning wiki syntax; that could be detrimental to D&D Wiki. However, what is the goal of D&D Wiki? It's to provide a place where users can submit homebrew content so it can be played in other D&D campaigns. Editing with forms will just help make the goal of posting things and fixing things on D&D Wiki easier. I guess we should have it. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:29, 29 February 2008 (MST) <br />
<br />
::For me it's more about letting people add and edit content easily without having to learn the entire wiki syntax in one hit. If they want their creations to look good they still have to learn syntax for stuff like equipment as there is no standard format for the item description etc so at current we just have an input box, but if they don't bother with syntax as a lot of creation i've wikified didn't then the form has done most of the wikifying for us. Does that mean I can put the edit with form tab back up? --[[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 19:04, 29 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::I say go for it. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:26, 2 March 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
=== SMW and DPL ===<br />
<br />
There's been a request for [http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=Main_Page DPL] to be able to access SMW properties. I'm keeping an eye out for when this gets implemented. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 11:19, 29 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:Once the semantic data is implemented it would be possible to replace the dpl generated tables with inline queries, if anyone is interested in doing that we would not need the DPL to be able to access SMW. I'm not sure how the DPL works exactly but SMW inline queries are done each time someone looks at a page so if the DPL doesn't do this using SMW inline queries may put more strin on the server for more information goto the SMW [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Inline_queries manual] --[[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 18:59, 29 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::I'll have to play around with it and see the level of flexibility compared to DPL. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 04:35, 1 March 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::Had trouble using the queries on my test wiki but I suspect that may be because i'm not as smart as I like to think. --[[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 06:10, 1 March 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::I made a query at [[LA 8 Races]], but I am getting SRD Matches for some reason. I think it is using an implicit OR rather than an implicit AND for the category matches, even though the documentation claims it uses AND by default. I do know a way to fix the table, but it is not elegant because it will stop working if we add semantic syntax to the SRD. I'll keep looking for an answer... --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 07:30, 1 March 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
== Featured Articles ==<br />
<br />
Hi everyone time for major change to the wiki idea number two (number one being semantic forms). I guess it's not a major change so much as a new 'thing'. I was wondering what would everyone think about having a article featured on the main page say every month. We nominate articles for featuring, people would support or oppose the articles then first day of the month one could be chosen to be on the main page until the next month. The articles would be finished work, well formated etc etc. --[[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 06:23, 3 March 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:We could also go that step further and have a Process closer to wikipedias where you nominate an article it becomes 'featured' but does not necessarily get added to the main page. each month or week or whatever someone decides which one gets put up / you can request a featured article be considered for the main page. --[[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 06:40, 3 March 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::Er... I know why you brought this up; it really is a standard across most wiki's. Therefore it makes me lean towards implementing it... Anyway, if this is to get implemented I do not want an obtrusive template, like the one on Uncyclopedia. Any thoughts for a good template? P.S. I like the second implementation more. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:37, 3 March 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::{| style="text-align: right; width: 100%; border: none;" <br />
| This is a [[Featured Articles|Featured Article]]! [[Image:Cscr-featured.png|30px]]<br />
|}<br />
:::Thoughts?<br />
:::--[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 14:33, 3 March 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::How do you handle projects? Does LotR count as one or a few hundred? Does the ''title page'' of LotR count? --[[User:Pwsnafu|Pwsnafu]] 17:38, 3 March 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::The main reason I was thinking about it is it puts some of our best work on the front page which draws in visitors instead of going through all those links to find something cool it's right there you can read it then people are more likely to go searching for more. It's also a recognition of your hard work having it on the main page. I like your little Featured article template is it for the talk page or the actual page if it's for the actual page perhaps it could be centered that way it blends in more being between the table of contents and the author template. We'd need some guidelines or criteria for making a page featured, and some one to arbitrate the process (and make final decisions) we can call him/her the Article Master or AM (like DM lol). we need to get some ideas rolling then maybe take a vote? --[[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 19:06, 3 March 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::Pwsnafu: I'd say for something like that it would be best to feature the main page of a project, not all subpages would need to be as good but there would still be a standard of quality for the entire project. Conversely a particularly good subpage which can stand on it's own could also be featured. --[[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 19:10, 3 March 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::I've just been stareing at the main page for awhile and so far I haven't thought of much in the way of how we could format it. About the only thing I can think of would be move the tavern schedule down next to the news and then use that blank space next to the menu for the featured articles. EDIT: personally I'd be for moving the tavern schedule to its own page. --[[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 19:29, 3 March 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::::[[Featured Articles]] --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 01:42, 4 March 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::I'm all for it, if it means that even wanton visitors can get a more inside view of the site at first glance. It might persuade some of them to stick around and lord knows dandwiki can use more contributors :O. --[[User:Sulacu|Sulacu]] 10:01, 5 March 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::::::Yes! --[[User:Penske|Penske]] 15:27, 5 March 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::Now we just need some featured articles :P. Hard to judge the true value of a system if it isn't used. --[[User:Sulacu|Sulacu]] 18:29, 5 March 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
== Gygax Gone at 69 ==<br />
<br />
[[:Category:Gary Gygax|Gary Gygax]], co-creator of D&D with [[:Category:Dave Arneson|Dave Arneson]], passed away Tuesday, March 4th, 2008, at the age of 69. Read coverage on it at [http://blog.wired.com/underwire/2008/03/report-gary-gyg.html Wired], [http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/technology/2008/03/farewell_gary_gygax_the_dungeo.html BBC News], [http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080304/ap_en_ot/obit_gygax Yahoo! News], [http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?no_d2=1&sid=08/03/04/1750206 /.], and many other news sites. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 09:18, 5 March 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:[[Discussion:The Passing of a Giant - RIP Gary Gygax]] --[[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 09:21, 5 March 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
== Submitted for Your Approval ==<br />
<br />
I present the new [[Form:DnD Spell|form for submitting (non-epic) spells]], Courtesy of Semantic MediaWiki and Semantic Forms. [[Special:EditData/Form:DnD_Spell/User:Sledged/Atonement|Here]]'s what it looks like with the fields populated. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 15:30, 5 March 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:Hm... I wish you could make it work more like [[Form:Rating]] where it uses a template which, once saved, goes to the normal wiki formatting. Can this be done with spells as well? It's just that I do not really want the formatting of all the spells changed to this new "standard". --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:18, 5 March 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::If that is what is wanted all you have to do is add <tt><nowiki>subst:</nowiki></tt> in the form code next to any templates you want to be substituted onto the page. --[[User:Hawk|Hawk]] 20:33, 5 March 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::Just be aware that if <tt>subst:</tt> is added, you'll lose the option of using the form to edit the page once it's been created. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 11:21, 6 March 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::It is a price I would be willing to pay. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:44, 6 March 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::Okay, there's a problem with <tt>subst:</tt>. Part of the way to form works is that it looks at the template to see what properties it has and which parameters are associated with each property. When you use <tt>subst:</tt>, it's looking for the page <tt>Template:subst:template name</tt> instead of <tt>Template:template name</tt> and it makes the form useless as a result. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 14:37, 6 March 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
== Wiki Criticism ==<br />
<br />
This is the most useless Wiki I have ever found on D&D. I'm sick of homebrew rubbish. I'm trying to find info on Mask and Olidamarra (spelling?) and I can't find anything good) {{unsigned| 68.193.215.240}}<br />
<br />
:Admittedly, this probably isn't the best wiki to go to for official WotC material, but that doesn't make it useless. What's wrong with homebrew? WotC seems to encourage it, and the only real difference between good homebrew and published material is that the former is sold in books. --[[User:Daniel Draco|Daniel Draco]] 05:40, 14 April 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::We are not allowed to have information about Gods and Goddesses on D&D Wiki. They are reserved as product identity. Sorry about that. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 21:27, 14 April 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::Should be in [[Deities and Demigods]], no? If you want even more information than that, you're likely looking into some very specific Forgotten Realms books. --[[User:Sulacu|Sulacu]] 18:51, 20 April 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== WotC Website Material ==<br />
<br />
It occurred to me as I was answering a question about what material we have on the site...would we be able to host material from the wizards site? [http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/psi The Mind's Eye], for instance, has some interesting things, and I would love to see things like it on the wiki. --[[User:Daniel Draco|Daniel Draco]] 19:16, 18 April 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:Hm... Can we http://ww2.wizards.com/Company/Default.aspx?doc=SiteLegalNotice? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 14:19, 19 April 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::According to section 2, "You are granted a limited, non-sublicenseable license to ''access'' and use the Site and ''electronically copy'' (except where specified as prohibited) and ''print to hard copy portions'' of Site Content for your ''personal'', noncommercial use only; provided, that you preserve any copyright, trademark or other similar notices contained in or associated with such Site Content. Such license is subject to these TOU and does not include: [...] (ii) the collection and use of any product or service listings, pictures or descriptions; '''(iii) the distribution (electronic or otherwise), public performance, or public display of any Site Content;''' [...] downloading (other than the page caching) of any portion of the Site, any Site Content or any information contained therein, except as expressly permitted on the Site; [...]"<br />
::In other words, I think not. Hosting anything more than links here violates the spirit of the first, italicized part (my emphasis) and also several of the explicit prohibitions (especially the bolded one, also my emphasis added). So... probably not. And WotC has a history of taking a very hard line against IP infringement, copyright suits, etc. &mdash;[[User:EldritchNumen|EldritchNumen]] 14:33, 19 April 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::Well once you sift through a little legal phrasing, that's pretty clear...their terms of use explicitly forbid it, since a wiki definately counts as public display. Oh well ''':/'''. --[[User:Daniel Draco|Daniel Draco]] 16:50, 19 April 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::The shame is that this material will disappear. When I was documenting Wizard's past products, I found that many items had dropped off their site. They are poor caretakers of their own material. The academic in me want to preserve their own web content for their own good.--[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 18:10, 19 April 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
==Feats==<br />
<br />
How about an area under the Featured Article for a 'Feat of the Day' with a link to a feat... --[[User:Calidore Chase|Calidore Chase]] 19:14, 19 April 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:If you go that route, you can just as well try to implement such a component feature for other groupings of data. Spell of the Day, NPC of the Day, etc. --[[User:Sulacu|Sulacu]] 18:54, 20 April 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::I agree, no such special section for feats is necessary, they can become featured as well ''';)'''. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 00:44, 21 April 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::Link of the day? kinda like a word of the day feature... --[[User:Calidore Chase|Calidore Chase]] 08:10, 7 May 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== Other Netbooks ==<br />
<br />
Does anyone know where to find the other netbooks from FanCC? I'd be interested in seeing them, possibly up on the wiki. {{Unsigned|Gruegirl|22:00, 23 April 2008 (MDT)}}<br />
<br />
:I am not sure, sorry. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:12, 29 April 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== 4th Edition Link ==<br />
<br />
I've had a thought; I think we could, and probably should, put the link to the 4th edition homebrew (and possibly the SRD, though we can't put it up yet, for obvious reasons) on the main page, because, as people in ENworld have proved, we have enough preveiw material from the PHB Lite (derived from the pregenerated characters and rogue preview) to make some powers, the 1st level for classes, and odd things here-and-there. As ENworld is already doing odd bits of 4e homebrew based on previews, we might as well provide a place for it to go now, rather than later.<br />
<br />
Also, my gaming group has started a 4e campaign with the Pre-Generated characters, and everything is ''so'' much more better than 3.5. The fighter felt more like a fighter than in 3.5. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 12:26, 26 April 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:Although as the deadline is drawing nearer and nearer I am leaning towards using the same revised 3e pages and just changing the identifier/creating a namespace for them. The voting (please see above discussion) outlined that the community would prefer that we distinguish 4e from 3.5e with just namespaces and categories. I know you have spent a lot of time on the 4e pages, however do we really need them? Is there any way we could utilize the current pages with 4e? Thoughts? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 00:16, 5 May 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::Won't be playing 4e for quite a while. Checkbook ain't so hot right now. So I would personally prefer keeping a 3e section and a seperate 4e section. --[[User:Calidore Chase|Calidore Chase]] 08:13, 7 May 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::I don't think it would be possible anyway. I think it would be easier and less confusing to keep them seperate... --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 08:23, 7 May 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== Random Link ==<br />
<br />
Would it be possible to add a random link to the navigation links too the side? This will allow for a more rounded out site over all. Eg. people are able to fix and contribute to content that they may not normally get to see. This will also allow DM's to make more interesting characters. --[[User:Sabre070|Sabre070]] 00:21, 6 May 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:I like the idea of a random page link too. Course there is one in the special pages link on the side and you could add one to your user page (as I have). --[[User:Calidore Chase|Calidore Chase]] 08:09, 7 May 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
==Featured User==<br />
How about a link to a particularly good user page. There are a few out there and it may encouraage others to create pages of their own. Maybe have a pool of good user pages that the link is randomly derived from. --[[User:Calidore Chase|Calidore Chase]] 08:07, 7 May 2008 (MDT)<br />
: I vote no. --[[User:Othtim|Othtim]] 17:56, 16 May 2008 (MDT)</div>Othtimhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Jess_Atmore_(3.5e_NPC)&diff=254178Jess Atmore (3.5e NPC)2008-05-11T20:16:38Z<p>Othtim: </p>
<hr />
<div><dplc><br />
|{{NPC Description<br />
|Jess Atmore|Elemental (human)<br />
|Sorcerer 1/ Wizard (Conjuration) 4/ Ultimate Magus 10/ Elemental Savant 10/ Red Wizard 5/ [[Arcane Savant (DnD Prestige Class)|Arcane Savant]] 10<br />
|Sorcerer specializing in interdimensional travel.}}</dplc><br />
{{Stat Block 2<br />
|name=Jess Atmore<br />
|cr=39<br />
|sex=Male<br />
|race=Elemental (human)<br />
|clvl=Sorcerer 1/ Wizard (Conjuration) 4/ Ultimate Magus 10/ Elemental Savant 10<sup>[[#CAr|CAr]]</sup>/ Red Wizard 5/ [[Arcane Savant (DnD Prestige Class)|Arcane Savant]] 10<br />
|al=N<br />
|size=Medium<br />
|type=Elemental (human)<br />
|init=+5<br />
|sens=[[darkvision]] 60 ft. , ''telepathic bond''<br />
|listen=+16<br />
|spot=+11<br />
|lang=Common, Infernal, Abyssal, Ignan, Celestial, Sylvan, Undercommon, Terran, Dwarven, Draconic<br />
|ac=+15<br />
|touch=+15<br />
|flat=+10<br />
|acmods=+5 dexterity<br />
|hp=none yet<br />
|immune=<br />
|hd=40<br />
|othhp=<br />
|resist=fire 170<br />
|fort=+22<br />
|ref=+21<br />
|will=+33<br />
|othsav=+15 to saves against fire and magical fire; +10 to saves against magic sleep, natural poison, paralysis, and stunning; +2 to saves against spells from the Conjuration school.<br />
|spd=50 ft.<br />
|melee1=Slam +20 melee (1d6+1 plus 1d6 fire)<br />
|ranged1=none yet<br />
|bab=+20<br />
|grp=+22<br />
|atkop=Burn<br />
|sa=none yet<br />
|cg=none yet.<br />
|prgrsns={{Stat Block 2/Spells Known<br />
|cls=Sorcerer<br />
|pd=CL 46th - Transmutation spells/day: (6,10,10,10,9,9,9,9,8,8). Conjuration spells/day: CL 47th (10,18,18,18,16,16,16,15,14,11)<br />
|sk0=''[[detect magic]]'', ''[[prestidigitation]]'', ''[[read magic]]'', ''[[message]]'', ''[[mending]]'', ''[[arcane mark]]''<br />
|spd0=10<br />
|sk1=''[[charm person]]'', ''[[unseen servant]]'', ''[[endure elements]]'', ''[[magic missile]]'', ''[[expeditious retreat]]''<br />
|spd1=17<br />
|sk2=''[[spider climb]]'', ''[[knock]]'', ''[[acid arrow]]'' (DC 26), ''[[command undead]]'', ''[[summon swarm]]''<br />
|spd2=17<br />
|sk3=''[[dispel magic]]'', ''[[arcane sight]]'', ''[[fireball]]'' (DC 27), ''[[gaseous form]]''<br />
|spd3=17<br />
|sk4=''[[enlarge person, mass]]'', ''[[wall of fire]]'', ''orb of fire''<sup>[[#CAr|CAr]]</sup> (DC 28), ''[[polymorph]]''<br />
|spd4=15<br />
|sk5=''xorn movement''<sup>[[#PlH|PlH]]</sup>, ''[[SRD:Prying_Eyes|prying eyes]]'', ''[[wall of force]]'', ''[[permanency]]''<br />
|spd5=15<br />
|sk6=''[[disintegrate]]'', ''[[SRD:Globe of Invulnerability|globe of invulnerability]]''<br />
|spd6=15<br />
|sk7=''[[banishment]]'', ''[[mage's magnificent mansion]]'', ''[[mass invisibility]]''<br />
|spd7=14<br />
|sk8=''[[sunburst]]'', ''[[mind blank]]'', ''[[SRD:Greater_Prying_Eyes|greater prying eyes]]''<br />
|spd8=13<br />
|sk9=''[[meteor swarm]]'' (DC 35), ''[[shapechange]]'', ''[[time stop]]''<br />
|spd9=10<br />
|spd10=5<br />
|spd11=5<br />
|spd12=3<br />
}}<br />
|slad=<br />
|freq1=at will<br />
|slaat will=<br />
|str=14 <br />
|dex=20<br />
|con=23<br />
|int=32<br />
|wis=22<br />
|cha=40<br />
|sq=vulnerability to cold, not subject to critical hits or flanking, does not need to eat, sleep or breathe.<br />
|feats=Improved Spell Capacity x3, Epic Spellcasting, Ignore Material Components, Ignore Focus Components, Epic Leadership, Craft Epic Wonderous Item, Rapid Metamagic, Silent Spell, Still Spell, Quicken Spell, Spell Mastery, Energy Substitution (fire), Leadership, Craft Wonderous Item, Tattoo Focus, Epic Skill Focus (Spellcraft)<br />
|skills=Appraise +16 (+18 to wonderous items), Autohypnosis +19, Bluff +15, Concentration +49, Craft (wondrous item) +54, Diplomacy +37, Disguise +15, Gather Information +35, Intimidate +15, Know (arcana) +54, Know (Engineering) +31, Know (Planes) +54, Know (Local) +31, Know (Religion) +34, Know (History) +31), Scry +54, Search +16, Spellcraft +71, Use Magic Device +35 (+37 involving scrolls) <br />
|poss=simple clothing<br />
|aesk=''[[Siege Cannon (DnD Epic Spell)|siege cannon]]''<br />
{{<br />
Stat Block 2/Spells Recorded<br />
|sp0='''Blessed Books''' contain all spells listed below<br />
|sp2=''ghoul glyph''<sup>[[#LM|LM]]</sup>,<br />
|sp3=''improved alarm''<sup>[[#MoP|MoP]]</sup>, ''incorporeal enhancement''<sup>[[#LM|LM]]</sup>,<br />
|sp4=''improved portal alarm''<sup>[[#MoP|MoP]]</sup>, ''ethereal mount''<sup>[[#MoP|MoP]]</sup>,<br />
|sp5=''greater blink''<sup>[[#CAr|CAr]]</sup>, ''servant horde''<sup>[[#CAr|CAr]]</sup>, ''death throes''<sup>[[#PlH|PlH]]</sup>, ''[[permanency]]'', ''summon undead V''<sup>[[#LM|LM]]</sup>,<br />
|sp6=''seal portal''<sup>[[#MoP|MoP]]</sup>, ''revive undead''<sup>[[#LM|LM]]</sup>,<br />
|sp7=''energy immunity''<sup>[[#CAr|CAr]]</sup>, ''awaken undead''<sup>[[#LM|LM]]</sup>,<br />
|sp8=''greater anticipate teleportation''<sup>[[#CAr|CAr]]</sup>, ''[[Jess' Twin Portals (DnD Spell)|twin portals]]''<br />
|sp9=''reaving dispel''<sup>[[#CAr|CAr]]</sup>, ''superior invisibility''<sup>[[#CAr|CAr]]</sup>, ''hellish horde''<sup>[[#PlH|PlH]]</sup>, ''[[Jess' Greater Twin Portals (DnD Spell)|greater twin portals]]''<br />
}}<br />
|san1=Spell Mastery |sad1= ''superior invisibility''<sup>[[#CAr|CAr]]</sup>, ''[[overland flight]]'', ''zone of revelation'', +7 more<br />
}}<br />
<br />
<br />
{{Author<br />
|author_name=Othtim<br />
|date_created=Febuary 15, 2008<br />
|status=wip<br />
}}<br />
<br />
==Combat==<br />
<br />
Jess usually prefers to talk, and if possible, avoid fighting. He often makes use of Sense Motive, Diplomacy, and Gather Information during parlay to gain as much useful information as possible about a potential opponent. He makes heavy use of spells in combat, especially fire-based spells, elemental summoning, and teleportation. If Jess is engaged in combat that he wants to continue in, he will often attempt to teleport the opponent (or opponents) to a more favourable location (usually a place where he can make use of his elemental resistance). If the combat is potentially dangerous, Jess usually begins the first round of combat by using ''[[instant summons]]'' to bring him his powerful magic armour, followed by a ''[[time stop]]'' (if he plans to stay and continue combat), or a ''[[teleport]]'' spell (if he wants to avoid combat at this time). <br />
<br />
At the beginning of every day Jess (usually) casts ''[[overland flight]]''.<br />
<br />
The following spells have been made permanent through application of the ''[[permanency]]'' spell: ''telepathic bond'', ''[[arcane sight]]'', ''[[read magic]]'', and ''[[see invisibility]]''.<br />
<br />
'''Burn ([[SRD:Ex|Ex]]):''' Jess’ slam attack deals bludgeoning damage plus fire damage from his flaming body. Those hit by a Jess' slam attack also must succeed on a [[SRD:Saving Throw|Reflex save]] (DC 26) or catch on fire. The flame burns for 1d4 rounds. A burning creature can take a [[SRD:Move Actions|move action]] to put out the flame. The save [[SRD:DC|DC]] is [[SRD:Constitution|Constitution]]- based.<br />
<br />
Creatures hitting Jess with [[SRD:Natural Weapons|natural weapons]] or unarmed attacks take fire damage as though hit by the Jess' slam attack, and also catch on fire unless they succeed on a [[SRD:Saving Throw|Reflex save]] (DC 26).<br />
<br />
'''Elemental Specialty ([[SRD:Ex|Ex]]):''' When Jess casts a spell that normally deals energy damage, it's energy descriptor is changed to fire, and it deals fire damage instead of it's normal type.<br />
<br />
'''Energy Penetration/Energy Focus ([[SRD:Ex|Ex]]):''' When Jess casts a spell with the fire descriptor, he gains a +4 competence bonus to caster level checks to overcome a creature's spell resistance. Also, the save DC for any spell cast by Jess with the fire descriptor increases by 2 (already considered).<br />
<br />
==Description==<br />
<br />
Background fluff coming soon.<br />
<br />
He has also written the book, "[[User:Othtim/livingspell|A Treatise on Living Spells]]", which discusses uses for living spells at an epic level.<br />
<br />
Barred schools: Evocation, Enchantment, Illusion (after level 26)<br />
<br />
==Vestement for All Seasons==<br />
<br />
After hundreds of years of research and study, Jess managed to uncover the secrets needed to create one of his greatest works to date: development and construction of his "Vestement for All Seasons." In a monumental feat of magical engineering, Jess designed and created a magical force within his own body, magically increasing his hardiness, and granting him various effects and spells at-will. Design and development was no simple task - it required many trips to hazardous planar destinations, gathering of rare material components, and deals with powers both dark and light. Simply constructing the Vestement took, in itself, nearly nine years of his time. The power of this item is great, and so was the cost - elevating his magical prowess has weakend his connection with himself.<br />
<br />
The Vestement grants Jess the following spells at will: ''analyze portal'', ''arcane mark'', ''gate'', ''greater blink'' (CL 45), ''greater dimension door'' (CL 45), ''greater plane shift'' (CL 45), ''greater scrying'', ''greater teleport'' (CL 45), ''greater twin portals'' (CL 45), ''instant summons'', ''phase door'' (CL 45), ''telekinesis'' (CL 45), ''teleport other'' (CL 45), ''wish'', ''xorn movement'', and ''zone of revelation''. Jess also gains the following spells as a constant effect: ''detect scrying'', ''greater anticipate teleportation'', ''mind blank'', and ''planar tolerence''. The Vestement also grants Jess a +8 compentance bonus to Intelligence, Charisma, and Constitution. However, it also places a permanent -1 bonus on both Strength and Dexterity.<br />
<br />
To create: 3,272,250 gp and 75,445 XP<br />
<br />
== Notes ==<br />
<br />
Work-In-Progress.<br />
<br />
* Built with a 25-point buy. <br />
* Gains +3 to Int, Wis, Cha, with no negative effects of aging due to elemental transformation. One point of this bonus is applied at level 20, the remaining two age category bonuses are applied at level 40.<br />
* At level 20, used five Wish spells to gain a +5 inherant bonus to Int, Wis, Con, Cha, Str, and Dex.<br />
<br />
For characters I make, I prefer to avoid absolutes if possible. I've been trying to use the suggestions [http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/misc/variantfewerabsolutes1.html here] and [http://www.immortalshandbook.com/sermon1.1.htm here] as a basis for substituting absolutes with increased saves. For example, if the Elemental Savant prestige class grants immunity to sleep, stunning, and paralysis, I'd change that to give +10 to saves against sleep, stunning, and paralysis. +10 to a save means that they're going to almost always make the save. I'm using bonuses of +5 for each step of logicalness that a save has. Like, if a fire elemental (which is composed of fire) gains "immunity to fire", then they'll gain a +15 bonus to saves vs fire effects. If a fire giant (which has the fire subtype) gains immunity to fire, they'll get +10 to their save vs fire effects. A normal human with no reason to be immune to fire gains a +5 vs fire effects.<br />
<br />
Similar deal with immunity to fire. Upper Krust, in the [http://www.immortalshandbook.com/sermon1.1.htm Immortals Handbook] suggests to use a three-tiered system, with FR 50 for creatures that have no reason to be immune to fire, FR 100 for creatures with the (fire) subtype, and FR 150 for creatures composed of fire. Since the Elemental Transformation feature of the Elemental Savant PrC actually turns the character into an elemental, I've given Jess FR 150. I've also '''added''' the FR 20 gained during the class progression, for FR 170 total. Also, saves against [whatever] from converted "immunities" are untyped, so they stack with everything else.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: smaller;"><br />
<div id="CAr">CAr = ''[[Complete Arcane]]''</div><br />
<div id="MotP">MotP = ''[[Manual of the Planes]]''</div><br />
<div id="PlH">PlH = ''[http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/179200000 Planar Handbook]''</div><br />
<div id="RotD">RotD = ''[http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/953690000 Races of the Dragon]''</div><br />
<div id="LM">LM = ''[[Libris Mortis]]''</div><br />
</span><br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
Back to [[Main Page]] &rarr; [[Dungeons and Dragons]] &rarr; [[DnD NPCs|NPCs]] &rarr; [[DnD CR 39 NPCs|CR 39]]<br/><br />
Back to [[Main Page]] &rarr; [[Dungeons and Dragons]] &rarr; [[DnD NPCs|NPCs]] &rarr; [[DnD ECL 40 NPCs|ECL 40]]<br />
[[Category:DnD]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:NPC]]<br />
[[Category:CR39]]<br />
[[Category:ECL40]]<br />
[[Category:Elemental Type]]</div>Othtimhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Jess_Atmore_(3.5e_NPC)&diff=254174Jess Atmore (3.5e NPC)2008-05-11T20:11:30Z<p>Othtim: </p>
<hr />
<div><dplc><br />
|{{NPC Description<br />
|Jess Atmore|Elemental (human)<br />
|Sorcerer 1/ Wizard (Conjuration) 4/ Ultimate Magus 10/ Elemental Savant 10/ Red Wizard 5/ [[Arcane Savant (DnD Prestige Class)|Arcane Savant]] 10<br />
|Sorcerer specializing in interdimensional travel.}}</dplc><br />
{{Stat Block 2<br />
|name=Jess Atmore<br />
|cr=39<br />
|sex=Male<br />
|race=Elemental (human)<br />
|clvl=Sorcerer 1/ Wizard (Conjuration) 4/ Ultimate Magus 10/ Elemental Savant 10<sup>[[#CAr|CAr]]</sup>/ Red Wizard 5/ [[Arcane Savant (DnD Prestige Class)|Arcane Savant]] 10<br />
|al=N<br />
|size=Medium<br />
|type=Elemental (human)<br />
|init=+5<br />
|sens=[[darkvision]] 60 ft. , ''telepathic bond''<br />
|listen=+16<br />
|spot=+11<br />
|lang=Common, Infernal, Abyssal, Ignan, Celestial, Sylvan, Undercommon, Terran, Dwarven, Draconic<br />
|ac=+15<br />
|touch=+15<br />
|flat=+10<br />
|acmods=+5 dexterity<br />
|hp=none yet<br />
|immune=<br />
|hd=40<br />
|othhp=<br />
|resist=fire 170<br />
|fort=+22<br />
|ref=+21<br />
|will=+33<br />
|othsav=+15 to saves against fire and magical fire; +10 to saves against magic sleep, natural poison, paralysis, and stunning; +2 to saves against spells from the Conjuration school.<br />
|spd=50 ft.<br />
|melee1=Slam +20 melee (1d6+1 plus 1d6 fire)<br />
|ranged1=none yet<br />
|bab=+20<br />
|grp=+22<br />
|atkop=Burn<br />
|sa=none yet<br />
|cg=none yet.<br />
|prgrsns={{Stat Block 2/Spells Known<br />
|cls=Sorcerer<br />
|pd=CL 46th - Transmutation spells/day: (6,10,10,10,9,9,9,9,8,8,3,3,2). Conjuration spells/day: CL 47th (10,18,18,18,16,16,16,15,14,11,6,6,4)<br />
|sk0=''[[detect magic]]'', ''[[prestidigitation]]'', ''[[read magic]]'', ''[[message]]'', ''[[mending]]'', ''[[arcane mark]]''<br />
|spd0=10<br />
|sk1=''[[charm person]]'', ''[[unseen servant]]'', ''[[endure elements]]'', ''[[magic missile]]'', ''[[expeditious retreat]]''<br />
|spd1=17<br />
|sk2=''[[spider climb]]'', ''[[knock]]'', ''[[acid arrow]]'' (DC 49), ''[[command undead]]'', ''[[summon swarm]]''<br />
|spd2=17<br />
|sk3=''[[dispel magic]]'', ''[[arcane sight]]'', ''[[fireball]]'' (DC 48), ''[[gaseous form]]''<br />
|spd3=17<br />
|sk4=''[[enlarge person, mass]]'', ''[[wall of fire]]'', ''orb of fire''<sup>[[#CAr|CAr]]</sup> (DC 49), ''[[polymorph]]''<br />
|spd4=15<br />
|sk5=''xorn movement''<sup>[[#PlH|PlH]]</sup>, ''[[SRD:Prying_Eyes|prying eyes]]'', ''[[wall of force]]'', ''[[permanency]]''<br />
|spd5=15<br />
|sk6=''[[disintegrate]]'', ''[[SRD:Globe of Invulnerability|globe of invulnerability]]''<br />
|spd6=15<br />
|sk7=''[[banishment]]'', ''[[mage's magnificent mansion]]'', ''[[mass invisibility]]''<br />
|spd7=14<br />
|sk8=''[[sunburst]]'', ''[[mind blank]]'', ''[[SRD:Greater_Prying_Eyes|greater prying eyes]]''<br />
|spd8=13<br />
|sk9=''[[meteor swarm]]'' (DC 48), ''[[shapechange]]'', ''[[time stop]]''<br />
|spd9=10<br />
|spd10=5<br />
|spd11=5<br />
|spd12=3<br />
}}<br />
|slad=<br />
|freq1=at will<br />
|slaat will=<br />
|str=14 <br />
|dex=20<br />
|con=23<br />
|int=32<br />
|wis=22<br />
|cha=40<br />
|sq=vulnerability to cold, not subject to critical hits or flanking, does not need to eat, sleep or breathe.<br />
|feats=Improved Spell Capacity x3, Epic Spellcasting, Ignore Material Components, Ignore Focus Components, Epic Leadership, Craft Epic Wonderous Item, Rapid Metamagic, Silent Spell, Still Spell, Quicken Spell, Spell Mastery, Energy Substitution (fire), Leadership, Craft Wonderous Item, Tattoo Focus, Epic Skill Focus (Spellcraft)<br />
|skills=Appraise +16 (+18 to wonderous items), Autohypnosis +19, Bluff +15, Concentration +49, Craft (wondrous item) +54, Diplomacy +37, Disguise +15, Gather Information +35, Intimidate +15, Know (arcana) +54, Know (Engineering) +31, Know (Planes) +54, Know (Local) +31, Know (Religion) +34, Know (History) +31), Scry +54, Search +16, Spellcraft +71, Use Magic Device +35 (+37 involving scrolls) <br />
|poss=simple clothing<br />
|aesk=''[[Siege Cannon (DnD Epic Spell)|siege cannon]]''<br />
{{<br />
Stat Block 2/Spells Recorded<br />
|sp0='''Blessed Books''' contain all spells listed below<br />
|sp2=''ghoul glyph''<sup>[[#LM|LM]]</sup>,<br />
|sp3=''improved alarm''<sup>[[#MoP|MoP]]</sup>, ''incorporeal enhancement''<sup>[[#LM|LM]]</sup>,<br />
|sp4=''improved portal alarm''<sup>[[#MoP|MoP]]</sup>, ''ethereal mount''<sup>[[#MoP|MoP]]</sup>,<br />
|sp5=''greater blink''<sup>[[#CAr|CAr]]</sup>, ''servant horde''<sup>[[#CAr|CAr]]</sup>, ''death throes''<sup>[[#PlH|PlH]]</sup>, ''[[permanency]]'', ''summon undead V''<sup>[[#LM|LM]]</sup>,<br />
|sp6=''seal portal''<sup>[[#MoP|MoP]]</sup>, ''revive undead''<sup>[[#LM|LM]]</sup>,<br />
|sp7=''energy immunity''<sup>[[#CAr|CAr]]</sup>, ''awaken undead''<sup>[[#LM|LM]]</sup>,<br />
|sp8=''greater anticipate teleportation''<sup>[[#CAr|CAr]]</sup>, ''[[Jess' Twin Portals (DnD Spell)|twin portals]]''<br />
|sp9=''reaving dispel''<sup>[[#CAr|CAr]]</sup>, ''superior invisibility''<sup>[[#CAr|CAr]]</sup>, ''hellish horde''<sup>[[#PlH|PlH]]</sup>, ''[[Jess' Greater Twin Portals (DnD Spell)|greater twin portals]]''<br />
}}<br />
|san1=Spell Mastery |sad1= ''superior invisibility''<sup>[[#CAr|CAr]]</sup>, ''[[overland flight]]'', ''zone of revelation'', +7 more<br />
}}<br />
<br />
<br />
{{Author<br />
|author_name=Othtim<br />
|date_created=Febuary 15, 2008<br />
|status=wip<br />
}}<br />
<br />
==Combat==<br />
<br />
Jess usually prefers to talk, and if possible, avoid fighting. He often makes use of Sense Motive, Diplomacy, and Gather Information during parlay to gain as much useful information as possible about a potential opponent. He makes heavy use of spells in combat, especially fire-based spells, elemental summoning, and teleportation. If Jess is engaged in combat that he wants to continue in, he will often attempt to teleport the opponent (or opponents) to a more favourable location (usually a place where he can make use of his elemental resistance). If the combat is potentially dangerous, Jess usually begins the first round of combat by using ''[[instant summons]]'' to bring him his powerful magic armour, followed by a ''[[time stop]]'' (if he plans to stay and continue combat), or a ''[[teleport]]'' spell (if he wants to avoid combat at this time). <br />
<br />
At the beginning of every day Jess (usually) casts ''[[overland flight]]''.<br />
<br />
The following spells have been made permanent through application of the ''[[permanency]]'' spell: ''telepathic bond'', ''[[arcane sight]]'', ''[[read magic]]'', and ''[[see invisibility]]''.<br />
<br />
'''Burn ([[SRD:Ex|Ex]]):''' Jess’ slam attack deals bludgeoning damage plus fire damage from his flaming body. Those hit by a Jess' slam attack also must succeed on a [[SRD:Saving Throw|Reflex save]] (DC 26) or catch on fire. The flame burns for 1d4 rounds. A burning creature can take a [[SRD:Move Actions|move action]] to put out the flame. The save [[SRD:DC|DC]] is [[SRD:Constitution|Constitution]]- based.<br />
<br />
Creatures hitting Jess with [[SRD:Natural Weapons|natural weapons]] or unarmed attacks take fire damage as though hit by the Jess' slam attack, and also catch on fire unless they succeed on a [[SRD:Saving Throw|Reflex save]] (DC 26).<br />
<br />
'''Elemental Specialty ([[SRD:Ex|Ex]]):''' When Jess casts a spell that normally deals energy damage, it's energy descriptor is changed to fire, and it deals fire damage instead of it's normal type.<br />
<br />
'''Energy Penetration/Energy Focus ([[SRD:Ex|Ex]]):''' When Jess casts a spell with the fire descriptor, he gains a +4 competence bonus to caster level checks to overcome a creature's spell resistance. Also, the save DC for any spell cast by Jess with the fire descriptor increases by 2 (already considered).<br />
<br />
==Description==<br />
<br />
Background fluff coming soon.<br />
<br />
He has also written the book, "[[User:Othtim/livingspell|A Treatise on Living Spells]]", which discusses uses for living spells at an epic level.<br />
<br />
Barred schools: Evocation, Enchantment, Illusion (after level 26)<br />
<br />
==Vestement for All Seasons==<br />
<br />
After hundreds of years of research and study, Jess managed to uncover the secrets needed to create one of his greatest works to date: development and construction of his "Vestement for All Seasons." In a monumental feat of magical engineering, Jess designed and created a magical force within his own body, magically increasing his hardiness, and granting him various effects and spells at-will. Design and development was no simple task - it required many trips to hazardous planar destinations, gathering of rare material components, and deals with powers both dark and light. Simply constructing the Vestement took, in itself, nearly nine years of his time. The power of this item is great, and so was the cost - elevating his magical prowess has weakend his connection with himself.<br />
<br />
The Vestement grants Jess the following spells at will: ''analyze portal'', ''arcane mark'', ''gate'', ''greater blink'' (CL 45), ''greater dimension door'' (CL 45), ''greater plane shift'' (CL 45), ''greater scrying'', ''greater teleport'' (CL 45), ''greater twin portals'' (CL 45), ''instant summons'', ''phase door'' (CL 45), ''telekinesis'' (CL 45), ''teleport other'' (CL 45), ''wish'', ''xorn movement'', and ''zone of revelation''. Jess also gains the following spells as a constant effect: ''detect scrying'', ''greater anticipate teleportation'', ''mind blank'', and ''planar tolerence''. The Vestement also grants Jess a +8 compentance bonus to Intelligence, Charisma, and Constitution. However, it also places a permanent -1 bonus on both Strength and Dexterity.<br />
<br />
To create: 3,272,250 gp and 75,445 XP<br />
<br />
== Notes ==<br />
<br />
Work-In-Progress.<br />
<br />
* Built with a 25-point buy. <br />
* Gains +3 to Int, Wis, Cha, with no negative effects of aging due to elemental transformation. One point of this bonus is applied at level 20, the remaining two age category bonuses are applied at level 40.<br />
* At level 20, used five Wish spells to gain a +5 inherant bonus to Int, Wis, Con, Cha, Str, and Dex.<br />
<br />
For characters I make, I prefer to avoid absolutes if possible. I've been trying to use the suggestions [http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/misc/variantfewerabsolutes1.html here] and [http://www.immortalshandbook.com/sermon1.1.htm here] as a basis for substituting absolutes with increased saves. For example, if the Elemental Savant prestige class grants immunity to sleep, stunning, and paralysis, I'd change that to give +10 to saves against sleep, stunning, and paralysis. +10 to a save means that they're going to almost always make the save. I'm using bonuses of +5 for each step of logicalness that a save has. Like, if a fire elemental (which is composed of fire) gains "immunity to fire", then they'll gain a +15 bonus to saves vs fire effects. If a fire giant (which has the fire subtype) gains immunity to fire, they'll get +10 to their save vs fire effects. A normal human with no reason to be immune to fire gains a +5 vs fire effects.<br />
<br />
Similar deal with immunity to fire. Upper Krust, in the [http://www.immortalshandbook.com/sermon1.1.htm Immortals Handbook] suggests to use a three-tiered system, with FR 50 for creatures that have no reason to be immune to fire, FR 100 for creatures with the (fire) subtype, and FR 150 for creatures composed of fire. Since the Elemental Transformation feature of the Elemental Savant PrC actually turns the character into an elemental, I've given Jess FR 150. I've also '''added''' the FR 20 gained during the class progression, for FR 170 total. Also, saves against [whatever] from converted "immunities" are untyped, so they stack with everything else.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: smaller;"><br />
<div id="CAr">CAr = ''[[Complete Arcane]]''</div><br />
<div id="MotP">MotP = ''[[Manual of the Planes]]''</div><br />
<div id="PlH">PlH = ''[http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/179200000 Planar Handbook]''</div><br />
<div id="RotD">RotD = ''[http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/953690000 Races of the Dragon]''</div><br />
<div id="LM">LM = ''[[Libris Mortis]]''</div><br />
</span><br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
Back to [[Main Page]] &rarr; [[Dungeons and Dragons]] &rarr; [[DnD NPCs|NPCs]] &rarr; [[DnD CR 39 NPCs|CR 39]]<br/><br />
Back to [[Main Page]] &rarr; [[Dungeons and Dragons]] &rarr; [[DnD NPCs|NPCs]] &rarr; [[DnD ECL 40 NPCs|ECL 40]]<br />
[[Category:DnD]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:NPC]]<br />
[[Category:CR39]]<br />
[[Category:ECL40]]<br />
[[Category:Elemental Type]]</div>Othtimhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Jess_Atmore_(3.5e_NPC)&diff=254173Talk:Jess Atmore (3.5e NPC)2008-05-11T20:10:53Z<p>Othtim: /* Level Breakdown */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Level Breakdown==<br />
<br />
{| class="{{d20}}"<br />
! Sor/Wiz Caster Levels || Class Level || Feats || BAB, Fort/Ref/Will<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s1/w0 || sor 1 || +2 (eschew materials, silent spell) || +0,+0/+0/+2<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s1/w1 || wiz (conjurer) 1 || +1 (scribe scroll) || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s1/w2 || wiz 2 || +1 (still spell) || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s1/w3 || wiz 3 || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s1/w4 || wiz 4 || || +2,+1/+1/+5<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s2/w3 || ultimate magus 1 || +1 (tattoo focus) || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s3/w4 || ultimate magus 2 || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s4/w5 || ultimate magus 3 || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s5/w5 || ultimate magus 4 || +1 (,leadership) || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s6/w6 || ultimate magus 5 || +1 (quicken spell) || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s7/w7 || ultimate magus 6 || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s8/w7 || ultimate magus 7 || +1 (practiced spellcaster[sor]) || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s9/w8 || ultimate magus 8 || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s10/w9 || ultimate magus 9 || +1 (energy substitution[fire]) || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s11/w10 || ultimate magus 10 || +1 (practiced spellcaster[wiz]) || +7,+4/+4/+12<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s12/w10 || elemental savant 1 || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s13/w10 || elemental savant 2 || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s14/w10 || elemental savant 3 || +1 (craft wonderous item) || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s15/w10 || elemental savant 4 || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s15/w10 || elemental savant 5 || || +10,+6/+6/+17<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s16/w10 || elemental savant 6 || +1 (epic spellcasting) || epic<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s17/w10 || elemental savant 7 || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s18/w10 || elemental savant 8 || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s19/w10 || elemental savant 9 || +1 (ignore material components) || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s19/w10 || elemental savant 10 || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s20/w10 || red wizard 1 || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s21/w10 || red wizard 2 || +1 (ignore focus components) || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s22/w10 || red wizard 3 || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s23/w10 || red wizard 4 || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s24/w10 || red wizard 5 || +2 (spell mastery, epic skill focus (spellcraft)) || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s25/w11 || arcane savant 1 || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s26/w12 || arcane savant 2 || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s27/w13 || arcane savant 3 || +1 (craft epic wonderous item) || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s28/w13 || arcane savant 4 || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s29/w14 || arcane savant 5 || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s30/w15 || arcane savant 6 || +1 (epic leadership) || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s31/w15 || arcane savant 7 || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s32/w16 || arcane savant 8 || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s33/w17 || arcane savant 9 || +1 (rapid metamagic) || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s34/w17 || arcane savant 10 || || +20,+16/+16/+27 (+10 epic bonus to BAB and saves)<br />
|}<br />
<br />
+2 feats via flaws : Noncombatent, Vulnerable.<br />
<br />
<br />
Jess' sorcerer caster level is: CL 34 (class levels) +6 (improved caster level) +4 (ultimate magus' "spell power" ability") +2 (red wizard "spell power" ability) = CL 46. Conjuration spells are DC +3.<br />
<br />
Jess' wizard caster level is: CL 17 (class levels) +8 (improved caster level) +4 (ultimate magus' "spell power" ability) +2 (red wizard "spell power ability") = CL 31. Conjuration spells are DC +3.<br />
<br />
==More on the Vestement for All Seasons==<br />
<br />
The Vestement was created using the typical magic item creation rules in the DMG and Epic Level Handbook.<br />
Item value was calculated like so:<br />
<br />
spell level x caster level x 2000 (for unlimited) x modifier (1/2 for similar abilities, x1.5 for different abilities).<br />
<br />
-constant<br />
*Con +8 (640,000 x 1.5 = 960,000)<br />
*Int +8 (640,000 x 1.5 = 960,000)<br />
*Cha +8 (640,000 x 1.5 = 960,000)<br />
*Planar Tolerence 5 (5 x 5 x 2000 / 2 x .5 = 12,500)<br />
*Mind Blank 8 (8 x 8 x 2000 / 2 = 96,000)<br />
*Detect Scrying 4 (4 x 4 x 2000 / 2 x 2 = 24,000)<br />
*Analyze Portal 3 (3 x 3 x 2000 x .5 = 9,000)<br />
*= 3,022,000 gp<br />
<br />
at will<br />
*Zone of Revelation 4 (4 x 4 x 2000 x 1.5 = 48,000)<br />
*Arcane Mark 1 (1 x 1 x 2000 x 1.5 = 3,000)<br />
*Instant Summons 7 (7 x 7 x 2000 x .5 = 49,000)<br />
*Greater Twin Portals 8 (8 x 45 x 2000 x .5 = 360,000)<br />
*Teleport Object 7 (7 x 45 x 2000 x .5 = 315,000)<br />
*Greater Teleport 7 (7 x 45 x 2000 x .5 = 315,000)<br />
*Greater Plane Shift 8 (8 x 8 x 2000 x .5 = 64,000) <br />
*Greater Scrying 7 (7 x 7 x 2000 x 1.5 =147,000)<br />
*Xorn Movement 5 (5 x 5 x 2000 x .5 = 25,000)<br />
*Gate 9 (9 x 9 x 2000 + 250,000 = 412,000) #<br />
*Wish 9 (9 x 9 x 2000 + 250,000 x 1.5 = 618,000)<br />
*Phase Door 7 (7 x 45 x 2000 x .5 = 315,000)<br />
*Greater Dimension Door 5 (5 x 45 x 2000 x .5 = 225,000)<br />
*Greater Anticipate Teleportation 8 (8 x 8 x 2000 x .5 = 64,000)<br />
*Greater Blink 5 (5 x 45 x 2000 x .5 = 225,000)<br />
*Telekinesis 5 (5 x 45 x 2000 x 1.5 = 337,500) <br />
*= 3,522,500 gp<br />
<br />
= 6,544,500 gp<br />
<br />
x2 for no space limitation, x .5 for only useable by 1 person.<br />
<br />
= To Create: 3,272,250 gp and 75,445 XP<br />
<br />
== Commentary ==<br />
<br />
My intent is - as with everything I make - to not neccessarily make a useful or useable NPC, but rather, to give someone something to think about when creating their own. I hope that someone found this creation interesting or useful, or gleaned an idea or two from it. --[[User:Othtim|Othtim]] 13:12, 26 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
== Arcane Savant ==<br />
<br />
Where exactly can the arcane savant be found? —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 15:26, 28 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
: Here, on the wiki. I wanted to build a class using some of the homebrew stuff from the site. It fit in really well with the theme of the character. --[[User:Othtim|Othtim]] 17:29, 28 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
==Changes==<br />
<br />
Removed the "no-absolutes" system from Immortals Handbook. Back to DnD standard. Previous content was:<br />
<br />
"For characters I make, I prefer to avoid absolutes if possible. I've been trying to use the suggestions [http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/misc/variantfewerabsolutes1.html here] and [http://www.immortalshandbook.com/sermon1.1.htm here] as a basis for substituting absolutes with increased saves. For example, if the Elemental Savant prestige class grants immunity to sleep, stunning, and paralysis, I'd change that to give +10 to saves against sleep, stunning, and paralysis. +10 to a save means that they're going to almost always make the save. Similar deal with immunity to fire. Upper Krust, in the [http://www.immortalshandbook.com/sermon1.1.htm Immortals Handbook] suggests to use a three-tiered system, with FR 50 for creatures that have no reason to be immune to fire, FR 100 for creatures with the (fire) subtype, and FR 150 for creatures composed of fire. Since the Elemental Transformation feature of the Elemental Savant PrC actually turns the character into an elemental, I've given Jess FR 150. I've also '''added''' the FR 20 gained during the class progression, for FR 170 total. Also, saves against [whatever] from converted "immunities" are untyped, so they stack with everything else."<br />
<br />
: Actually, I kinda liked the "no-absolutes." That was the first time I'd seen it. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 14:31, 7 March 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:: Okay fine :) --[[User:Othtim|Othtim]] 14:38, 7 March 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::: Un-removed. --[[User:Othtim|Othtim]] 14:46, 7 March 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::: Yay. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 15:00, 7 March 2008 (MST)</div>Othtimhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Jess_Atmore_(3.5e_NPC)&diff=254168Talk:Jess Atmore (3.5e NPC)2008-05-11T20:00:14Z<p>Othtim: /* Level Breakdown */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Level Breakdown==<br />
<br />
{| class="{{d20}}"<br />
! Sor/Wiz Caster Levels || Class Level || Feats || BAB, Fort/Ref/Will<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s1/w0 || sor 1 || +2 (eschew materials, silent spell) || +0,+0/+0/+2<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s1/w1 || wiz (conjurer) 1 || +1 (scribe scroll) || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s1/w2 || wiz 2 || +1 (still spell) || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s1/w3 || wiz 3 || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s1/w4 || wiz 4 || || +2,+1/+1/+5<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s2/w3 || ultimate magus 1 || +1 (tattoo focus) || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s3/w4 || ultimate magus 2 || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s4/w5 || ultimate magus 3 || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s5/w5 || ultimate magus 4 || +1 (,leadership) || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s6/w6 || ultimate magus 5 || +1 (quicken spell) || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s7/w7 || ultimate magus 6 || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s8/w7 || ultimate magus 7 || +1 (practiced spellcaster[sor]) || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s9/w8 || ultimate magus 8 || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s10/w9 || ultimate magus 9 || +1 (energy substitution[fire]) || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s11/w10 || ultimate magus 10 || +1 (practiced spellcaster[wiz]) || +7,+4/+4/+12<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s12/w10 || elemental savant 1 || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s13/w10 || elemental savant 2 || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s14/w10 || elemental savant 3 || +1 (craft wonderous item) || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s15/w10 || elemental savant 4 || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s15/w10 || elemental savant 5 || || +10,+6/+6/+17<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s16/w10 || elemental savant 6 || +1 (epic spellcasting) || epic<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s17/w10 || elemental savant 7 || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s18/w10 || elemental savant 8 || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s19/w10 || elemental savant 9 || +1 (ignore material components) || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s19/w10 || elemental savant 10 || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s20/w10 || red wizard 1 || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s21/w10 || red wizard 2 || +1 (ignore focus components) || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s22/w10 || red wizard 3 || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s23/w10 || red wizard 4 || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s24/w10 || red wizard 5 || +2 (spell mastery, improved spell capacity) || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s25/w11 || arcane savant 1 || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s26/w12 || arcane savant 2 || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s27/w13 || arcane savant 3 || +1 (craft epic wonderous item) || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s28/w13 || arcane savant 4 || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s29/w14 || arcane savant 5 || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s30/w15 || arcane savant 6 || +1 (epic leadership) || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s31/w15 || arcane savant 7 || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s32/w16 || arcane savant 8 || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s33/w17 || arcane savant 9 || +1 (rapid metamagic) || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| s34/w17 || arcane savant 10 || || +20,+16/+16/+27 (+10 epic bonus to BAB and saves)<br />
|}<br />
<br />
+2 feats via flaws : Noncombatent, Vulnerable.<br />
<br />
<br />
Jess' sorcerer caster level is: CL 34 (class levels) +6 (improved caster level) +4 (ultimate magus' "spell power" ability") +2 (red wizard "spell power" ability) = CL 46. Conjuration spells are DC +3.<br />
<br />
Jess' wizard caster level is: CL 17 (class levels) +8 (improved caster level) +4 (ultimate magus' "spell power" ability) +2 (red wizard "spell power ability") = CL 31. Conjuration spells are DC +3.<br />
<br />
==More on the Vestement for All Seasons==<br />
<br />
The Vestement was created using the typical magic item creation rules in the DMG and Epic Level Handbook.<br />
Item value was calculated like so:<br />
<br />
spell level x caster level x 2000 (for unlimited) x modifier (1/2 for similar abilities, x1.5 for different abilities).<br />
<br />
-constant<br />
*Con +8 (640,000 x 1.5 = 960,000)<br />
*Int +8 (640,000 x 1.5 = 960,000)<br />
*Cha +8 (640,000 x 1.5 = 960,000)<br />
*Planar Tolerence 5 (5 x 5 x 2000 / 2 x .5 = 12,500)<br />
*Mind Blank 8 (8 x 8 x 2000 / 2 = 96,000)<br />
*Detect Scrying 4 (4 x 4 x 2000 / 2 x 2 = 24,000)<br />
*Analyze Portal 3 (3 x 3 x 2000 x .5 = 9,000)<br />
*= 3,022,000 gp<br />
<br />
at will<br />
*Zone of Revelation 4 (4 x 4 x 2000 x 1.5 = 48,000)<br />
*Arcane Mark 1 (1 x 1 x 2000 x 1.5 = 3,000)<br />
*Instant Summons 7 (7 x 7 x 2000 x .5 = 49,000)<br />
*Greater Twin Portals 8 (8 x 45 x 2000 x .5 = 360,000)<br />
*Teleport Object 7 (7 x 45 x 2000 x .5 = 315,000)<br />
*Greater Teleport 7 (7 x 45 x 2000 x .5 = 315,000)<br />
*Greater Plane Shift 8 (8 x 8 x 2000 x .5 = 64,000) <br />
*Greater Scrying 7 (7 x 7 x 2000 x 1.5 =147,000)<br />
*Xorn Movement 5 (5 x 5 x 2000 x .5 = 25,000)<br />
*Gate 9 (9 x 9 x 2000 + 250,000 = 412,000) #<br />
*Wish 9 (9 x 9 x 2000 + 250,000 x 1.5 = 618,000)<br />
*Phase Door 7 (7 x 45 x 2000 x .5 = 315,000)<br />
*Greater Dimension Door 5 (5 x 45 x 2000 x .5 = 225,000)<br />
*Greater Anticipate Teleportation 8 (8 x 8 x 2000 x .5 = 64,000)<br />
*Greater Blink 5 (5 x 45 x 2000 x .5 = 225,000)<br />
*Telekinesis 5 (5 x 45 x 2000 x 1.5 = 337,500) <br />
*= 3,522,500 gp<br />
<br />
= 6,544,500 gp<br />
<br />
x2 for no space limitation, x .5 for only useable by 1 person.<br />
<br />
= To Create: 3,272,250 gp and 75,445 XP<br />
<br />
== Commentary ==<br />
<br />
My intent is - as with everything I make - to not neccessarily make a useful or useable NPC, but rather, to give someone something to think about when creating their own. I hope that someone found this creation interesting or useful, or gleaned an idea or two from it. --[[User:Othtim|Othtim]] 13:12, 26 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
== Arcane Savant ==<br />
<br />
Where exactly can the arcane savant be found? —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 15:26, 28 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
: Here, on the wiki. I wanted to build a class using some of the homebrew stuff from the site. It fit in really well with the theme of the character. --[[User:Othtim|Othtim]] 17:29, 28 February 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
==Changes==<br />
<br />
Removed the "no-absolutes" system from Immortals Handbook. Back to DnD standard. Previous content was:<br />
<br />
"For characters I make, I prefer to avoid absolutes if possible. I've been trying to use the suggestions [http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/misc/variantfewerabsolutes1.html here] and [http://www.immortalshandbook.com/sermon1.1.htm here] as a basis for substituting absolutes with increased saves. For example, if the Elemental Savant prestige class grants immunity to sleep, stunning, and paralysis, I'd change that to give +10 to saves against sleep, stunning, and paralysis. +10 to a save means that they're going to almost always make the save. Similar deal with immunity to fire. Upper Krust, in the [http://www.immortalshandbook.com/sermon1.1.htm Immortals Handbook] suggests to use a three-tiered system, with FR 50 for creatures that have no reason to be immune to fire, FR 100 for creatures with the (fire) subtype, and FR 150 for creatures composed of fire. Since the Elemental Transformation feature of the Elemental Savant PrC actually turns the character into an elemental, I've given Jess FR 150. I've also '''added''' the FR 20 gained during the class progression, for FR 170 total. Also, saves against [whatever] from converted "immunities" are untyped, so they stack with everything else."<br />
<br />
: Actually, I kinda liked the "no-absolutes." That was the first time I'd seen it. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 14:31, 7 March 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:: Okay fine :) --[[User:Othtim|Othtim]] 14:38, 7 March 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::: Un-removed. --[[User:Othtim|Othtim]] 14:46, 7 March 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::: Yay. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 15:00, 7 March 2008 (MST)</div>Othtimhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=UA:Variant_Rules&diff=254155UA:Variant Rules2008-05-11T19:41:55Z<p>Othtim: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{OGL Top}}<br />
<br />
<br />
{| class="column" cellspacing="0"<br />
|<br />
:[[UA:Races|Races]]<br />
:*[[UA:Environmental Racial Variants|Environmental Racial Variants]]<br />
:*[[UA:Elemental Racial Variants|Elemental Racial Variants]]<br />
:*[[UA:Reducing Level Adjustments|Reducing Level Adjustments]]<br />
:*[[UA:Bloodlines|Bloodlines]]<br />
:*[[UA:Racial Paragon Classes|Racial Paragon Classes]]<br />
:[[UA:Classes|Classes]]<br />
:*[[UA:Variant Character Classes|Variant Character Classes]]<br />
:*[[UA:Specialist Wizard Variants|Specialist Wizard Variants]]<br />
:*[[UA:Spontaneous Divine Casters|Spontaneous Divine Casters]]<br />
:*[[UA:Class Feature Variants|Class Feature Variants]]<br />
:*[[UA:Prestigious Character Classes|Prestigious Character Classes]]<br />
:*[[UA:Gestalt Characters|Gestalt Characters]]<br />
:*[[UA:Generic Classes|Generic Classes]]<small> (<span style="color: red;">coming soon</span>)</small><br />
:[[UA:Building Characters|Building Characters]]<small> (<span style="color: red;">coming soon</span>)</small><br />
:*[[UA:Alternative Skill Systems|Alternative Skill Systems]]<small> (<span style="color: red;">coming soon</span>)</small><br />
:*[[UA:Complex Skill Checks|Complex Skill Checks]]<small> (<span style="color: red;">coming soon</span>)</small><br />
:*[[UA:Character Traits|Character Traits]]<small> (<span style="color: red;">coming soon</span>)</small><br />
:*[[UA:Character Flaws|Character Flaws]]<br />
:*[[UA:Spelltouched Feats|Spelltouched Feats]]<small> (<span style="color: red;">coming soon</span>)</small><br />
:*[[UA:Weapon Group Feats|Weapon Group Feats]]<br />
:*[[UA:Craft Points|Craft Points]]<small> (<span style="color: red;">coming soon</span>)</small><br />
:*[[UA:Character Background|Character Background]]<small> (<span style="color: red;">coming soon</span>)</small><br />
|<br />
:[[UA:Adventuring|Adventuring]]<br />
:*[[UA:Defense Bonus|Defense Bonus]]<br />
:*[[UA:Armor as Damage Reduction|Armor as Damage Reduction]]<br />
:*[[UA:Damage Conversion|Damage Conversion]]<br />
:*[[UA:Injury|Injury]]<br />
:*[[UA:Vitality and Wound Points|Vitality and Wound Points]]<small> (<span style="color: red;">coming soon</span>)</small><br />
:*[[UA:Reserve Points|Reserve Points]]<br />
:*[[UA:Massive Damage Thresholds and Results|Massive Damage Thresholds and Results]]<br />
:*[[UA:Death and Dying|Death and Dying]]<br />
:*[[UA:Action Points|Action Points]]<br />
:*[[UA:Combat Facing|Combat Facing]]<small> (<span style="color: red;">coming soon</span>)</small><br />
:*[[UA:Hex Grid|Hex Grid]]<br />
:*[[UA:Variable Modifiers|Variable Modifiers]]<small> (<span style="color: red;">coming soon</span>)</small><br />
:*[[UA:Bell Curve Rolls|Bell Curve Rolls]] <br />
:*[[UA:Players Roll All the Dice|Players Roll All the Dice]]<br />
|<br />
:[[UA:Magic|Magic]]<small> (<span style="color: red;">coming soon</span>)</small><br />
:*[[UA:Magic Rating|Magic Rating]]<small> (<span style="color: red;">coming soon</span>)</small><br />
:*[[UA:Summon Monster Variants|''Summon Monster'' Variants]]<small> (<span style="color: red;">coming soon</span>)</small><br />
:*[[UA:Metamagic Components|Metamagic Components]]<small> (<span style="color: red;">coming soon</span>)</small><br />
:*[[UA:Spontaneous Metamagic|Spontaneous Metamagic]]<small> (<span style="color: red;">not completely wikified</span>)</small><br />
:*[[UA:Spell Points|Spell Points]]<small> (<span style="color: red;">coming soon</span>)</small><br />
:*[[UA:Recharge Magic|Recharge Magic]]<small> (<span style="color: red;">coming soon</span>)</small><br />
:*[[UA:Legendary Weapons|Legendary Weapons]]<small> (<span style="color: red;">coming soon</span>)</small><br />
:*[[UA:Item Familiars|Item Familiars]]<small> (<span style="color: red;">coming soon</span>)</small><br />
:*[[UA:Incantations|Incantations]]<small> (<span style="color: red;">coming soon</span>)</small><br />
:[[UA:Campaigns|Campaigns]]<br />
:*[[UA:Contacts|Contacts]]<br />
:*[[UA:Reputation|Reputation]]<br />
:*[[UA:Honor|Honor]]<small> (<span style="color: red;">incomplete</span>)</small><br />
:*[[UA:Taint|Taint]]<small> (<span style="color: red;">coming soon</span>)</small><br />
:*[[UA:Tainted Prestige Classes|Tainted Prestige Classes]]<small> (<span style="color: red;">coming soon</span>)</small><br />
:*[[UA:Sanity|Sanity]]<small> (<span style="color: red;">coming soon</span>)</small><br />
:*[[UA:Test-Based Prerequisites|Test-Based Prerequisites]]<br />
:*[[UA:Level-Independent XP Awards|Level-Independent XP Awards]]<small> (<span style="color: red;">coming soon</span>)</small><br />
:[[UA:When Worlds Collide|When Worlds Collide]]<small> (<span style="color: red;">coming soon</span>)</small><br />
|}<br />
<br />
=== Introduction ===<br />
<br />
'''Warning:''' Get Ready to drink from the fire hose.<br />
<br />
''Unearthed Arcana'' exposes you to more variant rules and alternative methods of gaming than anyone can hope to use in a single campaign. On top of those, a bunch of House Rule sidebars written by various members of the Wizards of the Coast R&D department describe personal variants they’ve used in their home campaigns. In fact, there’s probably more in here than you could reasonably use in a dozen campaigns, and some of it you probably won’t ever get around to actually introducing to your game.<br />
<br />
Take a deep breath&mdash;it’s okay.<br />
<br />
Just as no player actually casts all the new spells in the latest rulebook, and no DM actually uses all the new creatures in the latest manual of monstrosities, you shouldn’t feel any compulsion to use all these variants, even in a lifetime of gaming.<br />
<br />
Instead, pick and choose the ones that feel right for your style of gaming, your players, and your campaign. Some groups may latch on to a specific variant&mdash;whether the taint rules, Sanity checks, spell points, or legendary weapons&mdash;in a heartbeat, making it a central feature of their game world. Others find a few smaller changes to incorporate, such as a variant class or class feature, reputation checks, or alternative massive damage thresholds. Use the checklist at the back of the book to track what you’re using, and what changes you make to the variants you use.<br />
<br />
The “trick” behind getting your money’s worth from this book is an attitude of curiosity and experimentation. Some groups may have a conservative outlook: “We like the way our game works and don’t want to wreck it.” It’s okay to think that way&mdash;but nothing in this book can wreck your game unless you let it. If you try out a variant and it doesn’t work for you after a session or three, go back to the way you were playing, or just start over from where you were before you tried out the new rules. No harm, no foul.<br />
<br />
The adventurous groups, though&mdash;the ones willing to learn new ways to play their familiar game&mdash;stand to reap the biggest rewards from ''Unearthed Arcana''. In a way, this book perfectly represents the game itself: Adventurous characters get rewarded, though it takes work to reap those rewards.<br />
<br />
When you turn to the next page, the inundation begins. Just remember to take small sips at first&mdash;try out a small number of variants for starters, gradually increasing the level of change until you reach your comfort level. Don’t worry that you’re not using all the new stuff at once. After all, there’s always another campaign waiting to be born, and maybe in that one you finally try out the new metamagic components, or the spelltouched feats, or . . .<div class="right">&mdash;''Andy Collins''</div><br />
<br />
== What’s Inside? ==<br />
<br />
It’s usually true that you don’t need to read a D&D rulebook from front to back to get the most out of it&mdash;and that’s never been more true than in the case of ''Unearthed Arcana''. Using the table of contents as a guide, you can simply flip to a part of the book that looks interesting and start reading. That said, here’s a summary of what each chapter contains.<br />
<br />
'''[[UA:Races|Races]]''' introduces the concept of racial variants, keyed either to a particular environment or a certain elemental type. It offers a way to reduce a character’s level adjustment, which can pay off in more rapid advancement at higher levels. Much of the chapter is devoted to bloodlines&mdash;a way to make characters distinctive by giving them a hint of monstrous ancestry. Finally, it presents paragon classes that enable characters to develop into quintessential examples of their race.<br />
<br />
'''[[UA:Classes|Classes]]''' is full of ways to tailor the standard d20 System character classes. It provides a system allowing divine spellcasters to cast their spells spontaneously, as well as some variant class features. You can replace the standard bard, paladin, and ranger classes with prestige versions of those classes, or you can create gestalt characters who gain levels in two classes at the same time. For a simpler approach to class selection, tyr out the generic classes at the end of this chapter.<br />
<br />
'''[[UA:Building Characters|Building Characters]]''' offers options for detailing a character&mdash;a new way of determining which skills a character knows, a system for complex skill checks, and selections of traits and flaws that make characters more distinctive. Spelltouched feats and weapon group feats add even more variety to what characters can do. Instead of using the standard rules for the Craft skill, you can give characters craft points that they spend to create alchemical substances and magic items. The largest section of this chapter deals with character background, a way to create a character of higher than 1st level who has a unique personal history.<br />
<br />
'''[[UA:Adventuring|Adventuring]]''' is a treasure trove of ideas for changing basic aspects of the way the game works. If you want to try out a new system for how [[SRD:Armor Class|Armor Class]] is determined, or the benefit that armor provides, or how characters are affected by damage, you’ll find options here. you can give characters action points, which they se to improve their chances of succeeding at a task. You can change the way combat works by keeping track of a creature’s facing, or by using a hexagonal grid rather than a square grid. You can even modify the most fundamental concept in the d20 System rules by getting rid of the d20 altogether!<br />
<br />
'''[[UA:Magic|Magic]]''' is in many ways a counterpart to [[UA:Adventuring|Adventuring]], except that the variants here are all related to the effects of magic on the game. You can give each character and creature a magic rating, which determines its caster level. You can generate individualized lists of ''summon'' spells related to each caster’s world view or goals. Metamagic components allow spellcasters to use spells with the effect of a metamagic feat already built in. The spontaneous metamagic variant gives casters the opportunity to assign metamagic effects to a spell just as it is cast. The spell point system gives casters more flexibility in their daily spell choices. Rather than limiting casters to a certain number of spells per day, you can use the recharge magic system to determine how often a character can cast a particular spell or a spell of a certain level. You can change the role of magic in the game without altering any other rules by using the material on legendary weapons, item familiars, and incantations.<br />
<br />
'''[[UA:Campaigns|Campaigns]]''' takes a look at concepts that can flesh out characters and affect (for good or ill) the way they interact with their world. Contacts are NPCs who can provide various forms of aid to player characters. Reputation and honor help to determine how the other residents of the campaign world perceive the PCs. For a darker and grittier campaign world, one in which characters are up against perils they can’t control, you can incorporate the rules for taint or insanity (or both). Finally, for a different way of determining how characters fulfill the requirements for feats and prestige classes, check out the variant test-based prerequisites.<br />
<br />
'''[[UA:When Worlds Collide|When Worlds Collide]]''' offers some brief advice for DMs on how to use a wide variety of variant rules during play without necessarily creating different campaign worlds for different combinations of variants.<br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
{{Main Page Breadcrumb}}<br />
{{UA Footer Templates}}<br />
[[Category:Unearthed Arcana]]<br />
[[Category:Transcript]]<br />
[[Category:Variant Rule]]</div>Othtimhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=UA:Variant_Rules&diff=254152UA:Variant Rules2008-05-11T19:40:18Z<p>Othtim: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{OGL Top}}<br />
<br />
<br />
{| class="column" cellspacing="0"<br />
|<br />
:[[UA:Races|Races]]<br />
:*[[UA:Environmental Racial Variants|Environmental Racial Variants]]<br />
:*[[UA:Elemental Racial Variants|Elemental Racial Variants]]<br />
:*[[UA:Reducing Level Adjustments|Reducing Level Adjustments]]<br />
:*[[UA:Bloodlines|Bloodlines]]<br />
:*[[UA:Racial Paragon Classes|Racial Paragon Classes]]<br />
:[[UA:Classes|Classes]]<br />
:*[[UA:Variant Character Classes|Variant Character Classes]]<br />
:*[[UA:Specialist Wizard Variants|Specialist Wizard Variants]]<br />
:*[[UA:Spontaneous Divine Casters|Spontaneous Divine Casters]]<br />
:*[[UA:Class Feature Variants|Class Feature Variants]]<br />
:*[[UA:Prestigious Character Classes|Prestigious Character Classes]]<br />
:*[[UA:Gestalt Characters|Gestalt Characters]]<br />
:*[[UA:Generic Classes|Generic Classes]]<small> (<span style="color: red;">coming soon</span>)</small><br />
:[[UA:Building Characters|Building Characters]]<small> (<span style="color: red;">coming soon</span>)</small><br />
:*[[UA:Alternative Skill Systems|Alternative Skill Systems]]<small> (<span style="color: red;">coming soon</span>)</small><br />
:*[[UA:Complex Skill Checks|Complex Skill Checks]]<small> (<span style="color: red;">coming soon</span>)</small><br />
:*[[UA:Character Traits|Character Traits]]<small> (<span style="color: red;">coming soon</span>)</small><br />
:*[[UA:Character Flaws|Character Flaws]]<br />
:*[[UA:Spelltouched Feats|Spelltouched Feats]]<small> (<span style="color: red;">coming soon</span>)</small><br />
:*[[UA:Weapon Group Feats|Weapon Group Feats]]<br />
:*[[UA:Craft Points|Craft Points]]<small> (<span style="color: red;">coming soon</span>)</small><br />
:*[[UA:Character Background|Character Background]]<small> (<span style="color: red;">coming soon</span>)</small><br />
|<br />
:[[UA:Adventuring|Adventuring]]<br />
:*[[UA:Defense Bonus|Defense Bonus]]<br />
:*[[UA:Armor as Damage Reduction|Armor as Damage Reduction]]<br />
:*[[UA:Damage Conversion|Damage Conversion]]<br />
:*[[UA:Injury|Injury]]<br />
:*[[UA:Vitality and Wound Points|Vitality and Wound Points]]<small> (<span style="color: red;">coming soon</span>)</small><br />
:*[[UA:Reserve Points|Reserve Points]]<br />
:*[[UA:Massive Damage Thresholds and Results|Massive Damage Thresholds and Results]]<br />
:*[[UA:Death and Dying|Death and Dying]]<br />
:*[[UA:Action Points|Action Points]]<br />
:*[[UA:Combat Facing|Combat Facing]]<small> (<span style="color: red;">coming soon</span>)</small><br />
:*[[UA:Hex Grid|Hex Grid]]<br />
:*[[UA:Variable Modifiers|Variable Modifiers]]<small> (<span style="color: red;">coming soon</span>)</small><br />
:*[[UA:Bell Curve Rolls|Bell Curve Rolls]] <br />
:*[[UA:Players Roll All the Dice|Players Roll All the Dice]]<br />
|<br />
:[[UA:Magic|Magic]]<small> (<span style="color: red;">coming soon</span>)</small><br />
:*[[UA:Magic Rating|Magic Rating]]<small> (<span style="color: red;">coming soon</span>)</small><br />
:*[[UA:Summon Monster Variants|''Summon Monster'' Variants]]<small> (<span style="color: red;">coming soon</span>)</small><br />
:*[[UA:Metamagic Components|Metamagic Components]]<small> (<span style="color: red;">coming soon</span>)</small><br />
:*[[UA:Spontaneous Metamagic|Spontaneous Metamagic]]<small> (<span style="color: red;">not completely wikified</span>)</small><br />
:*[[UA:Spell Points|Spell Points]]<small> (<span style="color: red;">coming soon</span>)</small><br />
:*[[UA:Recharge Magic|Recharge Magic]]<small> (<span style="color: red;">coming soon</span>)</small><br />
:*[[UA:Legendary Weapons|Legendary Weapons]]<small> (<span style="color: red;">coming soon</span>)</small><br />
:*[[UA:Item Familiars|Item Familiars]]<small> (<span style="color: red;">coming soon</span>)</small><br />
:*[[UA:Incantations|Incantations]]<small> (<span style="color: red;">coming soon</span>)</small><br />
:[[UA:Campaigns|Campaigns]]<br />
:*[[UA:Contacts|Contacts]]<br />
:*[[UA:Reputation|Reputation]]<br />
:*[[UA:Honor|Honor]]<br />
:*[[UA:Taint|Taint]]<small> (<span style="color: red;">coming soon</span>)</small><br />
:*[[UA:Tainted Prestige Classes|Tainted Prestige Classes]]<small> (<span style="color: red;">coming soon</span>)</small><br />
:*[[UA:Sanity|Sanity]]<small> (<span style="color: red;">coming soon</span>)</small><br />
:*[[UA:Test-Based Prerequisites|Test-Based Prerequisites]]<br />
:*[[UA:Level-Independent XP Awards|Level-Independent XP Awards]]<small> (<span style="color: red;">coming soon</span>)</small><br />
:[[UA:When Worlds Collide|When Worlds Collide]]<small> (<span style="color: red;">coming soon</span>)</small><br />
|}<br />
<br />
=== Introduction ===<br />
<br />
'''Warning:''' Get Ready to drink from the fire hose.<br />
<br />
''Unearthed Arcana'' exposes you to more variant rules and alternative methods of gaming than anyone can hope to use in a single campaign. On top of those, a bunch of House Rule sidebars written by various members of the Wizards of the Coast R&D department describe personal variants they’ve used in their home campaigns. In fact, there’s probably more in here than you could reasonably use in a dozen campaigns, and some of it you probably won’t ever get around to actually introducing to your game.<br />
<br />
Take a deep breath&mdash;it’s okay.<br />
<br />
Just as no player actually casts all the new spells in the latest rulebook, and no DM actually uses all the new creatures in the latest manual of monstrosities, you shouldn’t feel any compulsion to use all these variants, even in a lifetime of gaming.<br />
<br />
Instead, pick and choose the ones that feel right for your style of gaming, your players, and your campaign. Some groups may latch on to a specific variant&mdash;whether the taint rules, Sanity checks, spell points, or legendary weapons&mdash;in a heartbeat, making it a central feature of their game world. Others find a few smaller changes to incorporate, such as a variant class or class feature, reputation checks, or alternative massive damage thresholds. Use the checklist at the back of the book to track what you’re using, and what changes you make to the variants you use.<br />
<br />
The “trick” behind getting your money’s worth from this book is an attitude of curiosity and experimentation. Some groups may have a conservative outlook: “We like the way our game works and don’t want to wreck it.” It’s okay to think that way&mdash;but nothing in this book can wreck your game unless you let it. If you try out a variant and it doesn’t work for you after a session or three, go back to the way you were playing, or just start over from where you were before you tried out the new rules. No harm, no foul.<br />
<br />
The adventurous groups, though&mdash;the ones willing to learn new ways to play their familiar game&mdash;stand to reap the biggest rewards from ''Unearthed Arcana''. In a way, this book perfectly represents the game itself: Adventurous characters get rewarded, though it takes work to reap those rewards.<br />
<br />
When you turn to the next page, the inundation begins. Just remember to take small sips at first&mdash;try out a small number of variants for starters, gradually increasing the level of change until you reach your comfort level. Don’t worry that you’re not using all the new stuff at once. After all, there’s always another campaign waiting to be born, and maybe in that one you finally try out the new metamagic components, or the spelltouched feats, or . . .<div class="right">&mdash;''Andy Collins''</div><br />
<br />
== What’s Inside? ==<br />
<br />
It’s usually true that you don’t need to read a D&D rulebook from front to back to get the most out of it&mdash;and that’s never been more true than in the case of ''Unearthed Arcana''. Using the table of contents as a guide, you can simply flip to a part of the book that looks interesting and start reading. That said, here’s a summary of what each chapter contains.<br />
<br />
'''[[UA:Races|Races]]''' introduces the concept of racial variants, keyed either to a particular environment or a certain elemental type. It offers a way to reduce a character’s level adjustment, which can pay off in more rapid advancement at higher levels. Much of the chapter is devoted to bloodlines&mdash;a way to make characters distinctive by giving them a hint of monstrous ancestry. Finally, it presents paragon classes that enable characters to develop into quintessential examples of their race.<br />
<br />
'''[[UA:Classes|Classes]]''' is full of ways to tailor the standard d20 System character classes. It provides a system allowing divine spellcasters to cast their spells spontaneously, as well as some variant class features. You can replace the standard bard, paladin, and ranger classes with prestige versions of those classes, or you can create gestalt characters who gain levels in two classes at the same time. For a simpler approach to class selection, tyr out the generic classes at the end of this chapter.<br />
<br />
'''[[UA:Building Characters|Building Characters]]''' offers options for detailing a character&mdash;a new way of determining which skills a character knows, a system for complex skill checks, and selections of traits and flaws that make characters more distinctive. Spelltouched feats and weapon group feats add even more variety to what characters can do. Instead of using the standard rules for the Craft skill, you can give characters craft points that they spend to create alchemical substances and magic items. The largest section of this chapter deals with character background, a way to create a character of higher than 1st level who has a unique personal history.<br />
<br />
'''[[UA:Adventuring|Adventuring]]''' is a treasure trove of ideas for changing basic aspects of the way the game works. If you want to try out a new system for how [[SRD:Armor Class|Armor Class]] is determined, or the benefit that armor provides, or how characters are affected by damage, you’ll find options here. you can give characters action points, which they se to improve their chances of succeeding at a task. You can change the way combat works by keeping track of a creature’s facing, or by using a hexagonal grid rather than a square grid. You can even modify the most fundamental concept in the d20 System rules by getting rid of the d20 altogether!<br />
<br />
'''[[UA:Magic|Magic]]''' is in many ways a counterpart to [[UA:Adventuring|Adventuring]], except that the variants here are all related to the effects of magic on the game. You can give each character and creature a magic rating, which determines its caster level. You can generate individualized lists of ''summon'' spells related to each caster’s world view or goals. Metamagic components allow spellcasters to use spells with the effect of a metamagic feat already built in. The spontaneous metamagic variant gives casters the opportunity to assign metamagic effects to a spell just as it is cast. The spell point system gives casters more flexibility in their daily spell choices. Rather than limiting casters to a certain number of spells per day, you can use the recharge magic system to determine how often a character can cast a particular spell or a spell of a certain level. You can change the role of magic in the game without altering any other rules by using the material on legendary weapons, item familiars, and incantations.<br />
<br />
'''[[UA:Campaigns|Campaigns]]''' takes a look at concepts that can flesh out characters and affect (for good or ill) the way they interact with their world. Contacts are NPCs who can provide various forms of aid to player characters. Reputation and honor help to determine how the other residents of the campaign world perceive the PCs. For a darker and grittier campaign world, one in which characters are up against perils they can’t control, you can incorporate the rules for taint or insanity (or both). Finally, for a different way of determining how characters fulfill the requirements for feats and prestige classes, check out the variant test-based prerequisites.<br />
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'''[[UA:When Worlds Collide|When Worlds Collide]]''' offers some brief advice for DMs on how to use a wide variety of variant rules during play without necessarily creating different campaign worlds for different combinations of variants.<br />
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[[Category:Variant Rule]]</div>Othtimhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=UA:Contacts&diff=254151UA:Contacts2008-05-11T19:39:53Z<p>Othtim: /* Obtaining Contacts */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{OGL Top}}<br />
<br />
==Reputation==<br />
<br />
This system codifies a phenomenon commonplace in most long-term campaigns: the friendly bartender, gruff weaponsmith, or absentminded sage who points the PCs in the right direction, pases along important clues, or offers unusual skills and knowledge.<br />
<br />
With this variant, the PCs have on or more unnamed contacts marked on their character sheet for later use. A player can define a contact for his character at any point during the game, giving the PC access to a friendly NPC. This variant is particularly appropriate in campaigns that feature mysteries, intrigue, and lots of character interactions. It's especially effective in the hands of a DM who doesn't mind improvising new NPCs on the spur of the moment.<br />
<br />
For example, when a character needs and inscription translated from the Pranatese language, and invitation to the Lord's Pageant, or the services of a master in [[Craft|Craft (gemcutting)]], the player tells the DM that he wants to define one of his character's contacts for the purpose. Then the DM describes how the contact came about, from the character's point of view: "You buy your lute strings from Otto Garrelbench, who is the husband of a Pranatese woman, Ku'vatha. She remembers you as one of the musicians who performed at their wedding feats, and is happy to do you a favour." In game terms, Ku'vatha has a friendly attitude toward the PC that continues unless the character does something to change the relationship. She is willing to translate the inscription, and she may perform a similar service on other occasions as time goes on. The player notes on the character sheet that one of his character's contacts has been defined as Ku'vatha Garrelbench, a speaker and writer of the Pranatese language.<br />
<br />
===NPCs and Contacts===<br />
<br />
While all defined contacts are friendly NPCs, that doesn't mean that all friendly NPCs are defined contacts. The contact variant is intended to supplement, not replace, the social interaction with noncombat NPCs. It gives the player a chance to insert a minor character into the ongoing drama.<br />
<br />
Defined contacts should be among the campaign's most stable characters. Unless the characters are completely obtuse or have remarkable misfortune, the minor characters they define as contacts aren't going anywhere. They're generally available wherever they happen to live, and the usually have the time and inclination to help their friend the PC. Major NPC characters - those defined entirely by the DM - are off limits as contacts. A player can't just say, "I want to define the queen as a contact."<br />
<br />
A contact won't risk life or livelihood on the PC's say-so, but a contact will make some sacrifices for a friend. For example, a contact will burn the midnight oil translation an ancient text or sneak the key to the pantry out of the castle (as long as it's back by morning).<br />
<br />
There's an inverse relationship between the contact's importance in the ongoing campaign and the amount of help she can provide. In other words, if you choose the mayor as your contact, he's sometimes too busy to see you at a moment's notice, but he's very helpful when you get an audience. Beppo the cobbler, on the other hand, practically lives in his shop on Water Street - making him available day or night - but the ways in which he can aid you are more limited.<br />
<br />
===Types of Contacts===<br />
<br />
Contacts come in three varieties: information contacts, influence contacts, and skill contacts.<br />
<br />
====Information Contacts====<br />
<br />
Information contacts are useful for what they know. They're the ones who hear all the rumors - and they can discern which ones are true. Some just have an uncanny sense of what's going on in their neighbourhood or town, such as the grumpy bartender, the talkative fruit merchant, and the watch captain who has seen it all. Other information contacts have more focused interests, such as the army sergeant who knowns all about troop movements, the fence who is privy to every major theft in the city, or the scribe assigned to write down every utterance of the high cleric-prophets.<br />
<br />
An information contact is generally a commoner or an expert with one-third the class levels of his PC friend. It's okay to give such a character a few levels in another class such as wizard, rogue, or fighter if it's reasonable for someone in the contact's position to have this experience. Most information contacts spend their skill points on interaction skills such as Diplomacy, Gather Information, and Sense Motive.<br />
<br />
====Influence Contacts====<br />
<br />
Influence contacts are useful because of who they know or who they are associated with. While a player can't define the queen as his character's contact, he can define one of her chambermaids as a contact. The maid doesn't have a broad store of information, and she doesn't have any skills the PCs might need. But she might be able to put in a good word with the queen, and she can certainly make introductions between the PC and the rest of the queen's domestic staff. The purpose of an influence contact is to enable and smooth talks with more important, but less friendly, NPCs. <br />
<br />
An influence contact has one-quarter the class levels of his PC friend, almost always an NPC class (adept, aristocrat, commoner, expert, or warrior) unless the character is in an environment such as a wizard's academy, where almost everyone has specific class levels.<br />
<br />
====Skill Contacts====<br />
<br />
Skill contacts are useful for what they do. Some skills - especially categories of Craft, Profession, and Knowledge - are rarely possessed by PCs. Skill contacts have those skills in abundance, so they're useful when characters need a smith to repair a lance, and honest broker to appraise a giant pearl, or a herald who can identify the helmed knight displaying a two-headed wyvern on her standard. A special category of the skill contact is the linguist, who can tell you what "Bree-Yark!" means in Goblin.<br />
<br />
A skill contact is generally an expert with half as many levels as his PC friend. He has maximum ranks in the skill he is best at, and his highest ability score is in the key ability for the skill in question. A skill contact always has the Skill Focus feat related to his field of specialty.<br />
<br />
===Obtaining Contacts===<br />
<br />
Player characters automatically gain contacts as they rise in level. When a PC obtains a new potential contact, he must select what type of contact it is (information, influence, or skill), but doesn't define it further until it's needed.<br />
<br />
A multiclass character gains contacts according to his class level in each of his classes, regardless of what his character level is. For example, a 3rd-level bard/2nd-level barbarian gains a new contact when he reaches 6th level if he takes 4th level in bard, but not if he takes 3rd level in barbarian.<br />
<br />
{| class="d20"<br />
|+ {{#anc:Table: Contacts}}<br />
|-<br />
! Level || A<sub>1</sub> || B<sub>2</sub> || C<sub>3</sub> || D<sub>4</sub><br />
|-<br />
| 1st || - || - || - || - <br />
|- class="even"<br />
| 2nd || 1st || - || - || - <br />
|- <br />
| 3rd || - || 1st || - || - <br />
|- class="even"<br />
| 4th || 2nd || - || 1st || - <br />
|- <br />
| 5th || - || - || - || 1st <br />
|- class="even"<br />
| 6th || 3rd || 2nd || - || - <br />
|- <br />
| 7th || - || - || - || - <br />
|- class="even"<br />
| 8th || 4th || - || 2nd || - <br />
|- <br />
| 9th || - || 3rd || - || - <br />
|- class="even"<br />
| 10th || 5th || - || - || 2nd <br />
|- <br />
| 11th || - || - || - || - <br />
|- class="even"<br />
| 12th || 6th || 4th || 3rd || - <br />
|- <br />
| 13th || - || - || - || - <br />
|- class="even"<br />
| 14th || 7th || - || - || - <br />
|- <br />
| 15th || - || 5th || - || 3rd <br />
|- class="even"<br />
| 16th || 8th || - || 4th || - <br />
|- <br />
| 17th || - || - || - || - <br />
|- class="even"<br />
| 18th || 9th || 6th || - || - <br />
|- <br />
| 19th || - || - || - || - <br />
|- class="even"<br />
| 20th || 10th || - || 5th || 4th <br />
|- <br />
| colspan="5" class="foot" |<br />
# Use column A for bard levels.<br />
# Use column B for cleric, paladin, and rogue levels.<br />
# Use column C for fighter and sorcerer levels.<br />
# Use column D for barbarian, druid, monk, ranger, and wizard levels.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
{{UA Campaigns Footer}}</div>Othtimhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=UA:Contacts&diff=254150UA:Contacts2008-05-11T19:39:00Z<p>Othtim: /* Obtaining Contacts */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{OGL Top}}<br />
<br />
==Reputation==<br />
<br />
This system codifies a phenomenon commonplace in most long-term campaigns: the friendly bartender, gruff weaponsmith, or absentminded sage who points the PCs in the right direction, pases along important clues, or offers unusual skills and knowledge.<br />
<br />
With this variant, the PCs have on or more unnamed contacts marked on their character sheet for later use. A player can define a contact for his character at any point during the game, giving the PC access to a friendly NPC. This variant is particularly appropriate in campaigns that feature mysteries, intrigue, and lots of character interactions. It's especially effective in the hands of a DM who doesn't mind improvising new NPCs on the spur of the moment.<br />
<br />
For example, when a character needs and inscription translated from the Pranatese language, and invitation to the Lord's Pageant, or the services of a master in [[Craft|Craft (gemcutting)]], the player tells the DM that he wants to define one of his character's contacts for the purpose. Then the DM describes how the contact came about, from the character's point of view: "You buy your lute strings from Otto Garrelbench, who is the husband of a Pranatese woman, Ku'vatha. She remembers you as one of the musicians who performed at their wedding feats, and is happy to do you a favour." In game terms, Ku'vatha has a friendly attitude toward the PC that continues unless the character does something to change the relationship. She is willing to translate the inscription, and she may perform a similar service on other occasions as time goes on. The player notes on the character sheet that one of his character's contacts has been defined as Ku'vatha Garrelbench, a speaker and writer of the Pranatese language.<br />
<br />
===NPCs and Contacts===<br />
<br />
While all defined contacts are friendly NPCs, that doesn't mean that all friendly NPCs are defined contacts. The contact variant is intended to supplement, not replace, the social interaction with noncombat NPCs. It gives the player a chance to insert a minor character into the ongoing drama.<br />
<br />
Defined contacts should be among the campaign's most stable characters. Unless the characters are completely obtuse or have remarkable misfortune, the minor characters they define as contacts aren't going anywhere. They're generally available wherever they happen to live, and the usually have the time and inclination to help their friend the PC. Major NPC characters - those defined entirely by the DM - are off limits as contacts. A player can't just say, "I want to define the queen as a contact."<br />
<br />
A contact won't risk life or livelihood on the PC's say-so, but a contact will make some sacrifices for a friend. For example, a contact will burn the midnight oil translation an ancient text or sneak the key to the pantry out of the castle (as long as it's back by morning).<br />
<br />
There's an inverse relationship between the contact's importance in the ongoing campaign and the amount of help she can provide. In other words, if you choose the mayor as your contact, he's sometimes too busy to see you at a moment's notice, but he's very helpful when you get an audience. Beppo the cobbler, on the other hand, practically lives in his shop on Water Street - making him available day or night - but the ways in which he can aid you are more limited.<br />
<br />
===Types of Contacts===<br />
<br />
Contacts come in three varieties: information contacts, influence contacts, and skill contacts.<br />
<br />
====Information Contacts====<br />
<br />
Information contacts are useful for what they know. They're the ones who hear all the rumors - and they can discern which ones are true. Some just have an uncanny sense of what's going on in their neighbourhood or town, such as the grumpy bartender, the talkative fruit merchant, and the watch captain who has seen it all. Other information contacts have more focused interests, such as the army sergeant who knowns all about troop movements, the fence who is privy to every major theft in the city, or the scribe assigned to write down every utterance of the high cleric-prophets.<br />
<br />
An information contact is generally a commoner or an expert with one-third the class levels of his PC friend. It's okay to give such a character a few levels in another class such as wizard, rogue, or fighter if it's reasonable for someone in the contact's position to have this experience. Most information contacts spend their skill points on interaction skills such as Diplomacy, Gather Information, and Sense Motive.<br />
<br />
====Influence Contacts====<br />
<br />
Influence contacts are useful because of who they know or who they are associated with. While a player can't define the queen as his character's contact, he can define one of her chambermaids as a contact. The maid doesn't have a broad store of information, and she doesn't have any skills the PCs might need. But she might be able to put in a good word with the queen, and she can certainly make introductions between the PC and the rest of the queen's domestic staff. The purpose of an influence contact is to enable and smooth talks with more important, but less friendly, NPCs. <br />
<br />
An influence contact has one-quarter the class levels of his PC friend, almost always an NPC class (adept, aristocrat, commoner, expert, or warrior) unless the character is in an environment such as a wizard's academy, where almost everyone has specific class levels.<br />
<br />
====Skill Contacts====<br />
<br />
Skill contacts are useful for what they do. Some skills - especially categories of Craft, Profession, and Knowledge - are rarely possessed by PCs. Skill contacts have those skills in abundance, so they're useful when characters need a smith to repair a lance, and honest broker to appraise a giant pearl, or a herald who can identify the helmed knight displaying a two-headed wyvern on her standard. A special category of the skill contact is the linguist, who can tell you what "Bree-Yark!" means in Goblin.<br />
<br />
A skill contact is generally an expert with half as many levels as his PC friend. He has maximum ranks in the skill he is best at, and his highest ability score is in the key ability for the skill in question. A skill contact always has the Skill Focus feat related to his field of specialty.<br />
<br />
===Obtaining Contacts===<br />
<br />
Player characters automatically gain contacts as they rise in level. When a PC obtains a new potential contact, he must select what type of contact it is (information, influence, or skill), but doesn't define it further until it's needed.<br />
<br />
A multiclass character gains contacts according to his class level in each of his classes, regardless of what his character level is. For example, a 3rd-level bard/2nd-level barbarian gains a new contact when he reaches 6th level if he takes 4th level in bard, but not if he takes 3rd level in barbarian.<br />
<br />
{| class="d20"<br />
|+ {{#anc:Table: Contacts}}<br />
|-<br />
! Level || A<sub>1</sub> || B<sub>2</sub> || C<sub>3</sub> || D<sub>4</sub><br />
|-<br />
| 1st || - || - || - || - <br />
|- class="even"<br />
| 2nd || 1st || - || - || - <br />
|- <br />
| 3rd || - || 1st || - || - <br />
|- class="even"<br />
| 4th || 2nd || - || 1st || - <br />
|- <br />
| 5th || - || - || - || 1st <br />
|- class="even"<br />
| 6th || 3rd || 2nd || - || - <br />
|- <br />
| 7th || - || - || - || - <br />
|- class="even"<br />
| 8th || 4th || - || 2nd || - <br />
|- <br />
| 9th || - || 3rd || - || - <br />
|- class="even"<br />
| 10th || 5th || - || - || 2nd <br />
|- <br />
| 11th || - || - || - || - <br />
|- class="even"<br />
| 12th || 6th || 4th || 3rd || - <br />
|- <br />
| 13th || - || - || - || - <br />
|- class="even"<br />
| 14th || 7th || - || - || - <br />
|- <br />
| 15th || - || 5th || - || 3rd <br />
|- class="even"<br />
| 16th || 8th || - || 4th || - <br />
|- <br />
| 17th || - || - || - || - <br />
|- class="even"<br />
| 18th || 9th || 6th || - || - <br />
|- <br />
| 19th || - || - || - || - <br />
|- class="even"<br />
| 20th || 10th || - || 5th || 4th <br />
|- <br />
| colspan="5" class="foot" |<br />
# Use column A for commoner levels.<br />
# Use column B for barbarian, druid, monk, ranger, rogue, and warrior levels.<br />
# Use column C for cleric, fighter, sorcerer, wizard, adept, and expert levels.<br />
# Use column D for bard, paladin, and aristocrat levels.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
{{UA Campaigns Footer}}</div>Othtim