https://www.dandwiki.com/w/api.php?action=feedcontributions&user=Name+Violation&feedformat=atomD&D Wiki - User contributions [en]2024-03-29T12:55:25ZUser contributionsMediaWiki 1.35.8https://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Vow_of_Poverty_Forsaker_(3.5e_Optimized_Character_Build)&diff=542270Talk:Vow of Poverty Forsaker (3.5e Optimized Character Build)2011-12-06T00:52:49Z<p>Name Violation: </p>
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<div>doenst forsaker have a BAB pre req of +5? you cant take it untill atleast 6th level. --[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 11:36, 5 December 2011 (MST)<br />
:Different Forsaker, this is the WotC Forsaker and in the book the requirements are Great Fortitude, Lightning Reflexes, Iron Will, and to have a bad experience with magic. --[[User:Tejan]]<br />
::the 3.0 class. thats not 3.5. not sure if that qualifies as a 3.5 optimization --[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 14:44, 5 December 2011 (MST)<br />
:::There's no book which has a 3.5 Forsaker. There's a Homebrew which claims to bring it up to speed, but no official book. Also quite a few builds on this site have 3.0 classes and weren't taken down. --[[User:Tejan]]<br />
:::I'm not advocating taking it down, but maybe a note next to MotW that says (3.0). its a more obscure book. --[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 17:52, 5 December 2011 (MST)</div>Name Violationhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Vow_of_Poverty_Forsaker_(3.5e_Optimized_Character_Build)&diff=542255Talk:Vow of Poverty Forsaker (3.5e Optimized Character Build)2011-12-05T21:44:36Z<p>Name Violation: </p>
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<div>doenst forsaker have a BAB pre req of +5? you cant take it untill atleast 6th level. --[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 11:36, 5 December 2011 (MST)<br />
:Different Forsaker, this is the WotC Forsaker and in the book the requirements are Great Fortitude, Lightning Reflexes, Iron Will, and to have a bad experience with magic. --[[User:Tejan]]<br />
::the 3.0 class. thats not 3.5. not sure if that qualifies as a 3.5 optimization --[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 14:44, 5 December 2011 (MST)</div>Name Violationhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Vow_of_Poverty_Forsaker_(3.5e_Optimized_Character_Build)&diff=542219Talk:Vow of Poverty Forsaker (3.5e Optimized Character Build)2011-12-05T18:38:10Z<p>Name Violation: </p>
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<div>doenst forsaker have a BAB pre req of +5? you cant take it untill atleast 6th level. --[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 11:36, 5 December 2011 (MST)</div>Name Violationhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Vow_of_Poverty_Forsaker_(3.5e_Optimized_Character_Build)&diff=542218Talk:Vow of Poverty Forsaker (3.5e Optimized Character Build)2011-12-05T18:36:15Z<p>Name Violation: Created page with "forsaker has a BAB pre req of +5. you cant take it untill atleast 6th level. --~~~~"</p>
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<div>forsaker has a BAB pre req of +5. you cant take it untill atleast 6th level. --[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 11:36, 5 December 2011 (MST)</div>Name Violationhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=SRD_Talk:Cleric&diff=539163SRD Talk:Cleric2011-10-27T08:23:22Z<p>Name Violation: /* Spells Known */</p>
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<div>==Spells Known==<br />
So I have read through the cleric information, and while yes it does tell you how many spells a cleric can cast per day, it doesn't set a limit on how many spells the cleric can prepare, but rather it insinuates a limit. Would the number of spells a cleric can prepare be equal to the spells per day, or was there something I missed?[[User:Thornton|Thornton]] 08:19, 25 October 2011 (MDT)<br />
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:You can't prepare anymore spells than you can cast in a day. You can prepare fewer (if, say, you want to leave a few slots open to prepare later in the day), but you can't cast any spell you haven't prepared. This isn't explicitly written in the text, but if you can only cast 3 spells a day, it doesn't make sense that you could prepare 4 to cast. Hope this helps. [[User:Jazzman831|Jazz]][[User talk:Jazzman831|Man]] 08:28, 25 October 2011 (MDT)<br />
::Dont clerics have to prep spells at a particular time of day? Rangers (pallys?) and wizards are just about the only ones who can do that i thought --[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 02:23, 27 October 2011 (MDT)</div>Name Violationhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Big_Guy_(3.5e_Feat)&diff=535813Talk:Big Guy (3.5e Feat)2011-09-19T18:24:04Z<p>Name Violation: </p>
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<div>Why would a fighter NOT take this feat? Seems incredibly broken to me.<br />
: Compare it to what wizards get at the same HD, from their class features (i.e. spellcasting) alone. Or should fighters not have nice things? --[[User:ScryersEve|ScryersEve]] 06:38, 19 September 2011 (MDT)<br />
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Improved Power attack is the frenzy bazerker class ability. its not a feat. that should be mentioned so people know where to look for it.<br />
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also powerful build should link to the ability --[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 12:24, 19 September 2011 (MDT)</div>Name Violationhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Discussion:Is_the_fighter_underpowered%3F&diff=529043Discussion:Is the fighter underpowered?2011-08-05T21:07:14Z<p>Name Violation: </p>
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<div>__NOTOC__<br />
== Is the Fighter Underpowered? ==<br />
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=== [[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]]&nbsp;<small><small>23:02, 29 April 2007 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
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Hello everyone. I have been wondering whether or not the fighter is underpowered in comparison to other typical base classes.<br />
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=== [[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]]&nbsp;<small><small>08:03, 30 April 2007 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
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I believe the fighter is underpowered. I made a similar observation at one point, although I can't find that conversation now. When I made up a [[:Image:Class Comparison.ods|class comparison spreadsheet]] (before someone told me about [http://www.community3e.com/dn/class/3.5ClassConstruction.zip CCS]), the fighter came off looking by far the worst, even lower than the bard (although, empirically, I think I'd put the bard lower). I proposed bumping the fighter's HD to d12 and giving them a good reflex save. The higher HP, in particular, makes sense along conceptual grounds.<br />
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=== [[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]]&nbsp;<small><small>08:07, 30 April 2007 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
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There's been terribly long discussions about this on the WotC board. Many fighter builds were shown that can kill Balors in one round. "Power" is a distraction to the class's issues. <br />
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A few facts:<br />
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* Spellcasters are much stronger than non-spellcasters, especially at the higher levels. The Druid and the Cleric are especially used for their incredibly high raw-power. <br />
* Fighters shares a number of issues with non-spellcasters vis-a-vis casters.<br />
* The optimizers have found large numbers of combos for spellcasters, and this information is easy to find. This raises the general power of casters as most melee does not have the same overly-effective combos. (There are combos, just not as many.)<br />
* Most spellcasters can recover from poor spell selection within a day or completely redesign their powers in a day.<br />
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This means that we can not effectively compare non-spellcasters to spellcasters. That difference huge structural issue in the game.<br />
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Is fighter the weakest of the melee classes? If you play the game as the design recommends, fighters do fine. If you look at the equipment recommendations form the Magic Item Compendium, you find a power curve considerably different than the one often talked about on the boards. Players often prefer "power" level games, which spellcasters can adapt to, but melee (being far more regulated) can not adapt to.<br />
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I've seen only one good assessment of this situation. The game design principal is that a base class should be reasonably optimized for its job out of the box. The fighter starts non-optimized and requires considerable knowledge of the game to correctly make choices. That makes the fighter a poorly designed class. THAT is the fighter issue. <br />
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Power-wise, I am convinced that the class is fine. A sharp operator can pimp out a killer fighter at high levels. The real issues with the class is that the class is very unforgiving if you make the wrong choice; the class is overly dependent on equipment; and other classes only need short chains to get the feats that they need to work, so the need for feats drops off rapidly by levels 9-12.<br />
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That's a rough summary of what I see as legitimate issues with both the game and the fighter. This all traces back to a 4 encounters/day design, and the boosting of the cleric to cover healing. The most effective way to solve this is to completely redesign the game into an encounter-centric design. That takes us into 4E territory.<br />
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=== [[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]]&nbsp;<small><small>16:05, 30 April 2007 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
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Thanks for the replies! I guess that I am not going to play a fighter anytime soon.<br />
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I also modified some of the formatting, let me know what looks good for Discussions, or go ahead and modify it.<br />
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=== [[User:Pwsnafu|Pwsnafu]]&nbsp;<small><small>22:21, 30 April 2007 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
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The problem I have when people ask "Is X weaker than Y?" is that it suggests "power" is some ultimate measure of performance for a class, especially at high levels. Classes do not exist in a vacuum, they exist in relation to a party. I don't like discussing char. op. because few people would use them in the game (who plays Pun-Pun?). If your talking about ''potential power'' of a class then fine, but hypotheticals and contrafactuals have next no meaning in a real game if the GM just throws 100 black dragons at you in response to your super-combo. <br />
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Anyway, for most players of fighters, it's about qualifying for prestigue classes by getting feats, thus level 20 fighters are next to non-existant in RL.<br />
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=== [[Special:Contributions/75.153.172.237|75.153.172.237]]&nbsp;<small><small>16:07, 1 May 2007 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
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I don't think the fighter is underpowered. I agree with what Pwsnafu said - it's all about qualifying for prestige classes. <br />
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=== [[User:Hooper|Hooper]]&nbsp;<small><small>17:07, 2 May 2007 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
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My main character in a current game is a fighter, and I couldn't disagree more. Although I don't think that power is a big deal. But, well, let me put it this way. I'm a 10th level fighter and I took down an 16th level paladin NPC. Just saying. Spellcasters get one shot at me, if I get to them first, they're screwed.<br />
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=== [[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]]&nbsp;<small><small>06:06, 4 May 2007 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
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As Dmilewski said, it is basically about knowing feat choices if you are trying to compare raw power. Fighters are criticized for having "dead levels". Basically, levels where you don't get much than a few skill points, +1 BAB, and some save increases. That is a pretty boring thing to play especially. It sucks when you level up and find "now I can survive 9 more damage and have a +1 to hit".<br />
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You can however, get a lot of versatility with the bonus feats. You can build better archers, grapplers, tacklers, trippers, disarmers, sunderers, etc. than any other class. That counts for something.<br />
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More often than not though, fighters are used to qualify for a good PrC. Does this make them inherently bad themselves? I don't think so. I just think they are inherently bland not bad. That goes back to the dead levels (as well as no special thing to them besides a bucket o feats).<br />
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=== [[User:Skwyd|Skwyd]]&nbsp;<small><small>16:20, 4 May 2007 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
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I agree that the fighter class, as written is a pretty bland class. I don't know anyone who has played a pure-class fighter beyond about 7th or 8th level. I have seen players go pure-class rogue, paladin, wizard, and monk all the way through 13th (of course, that's when most of the campaigns end). I think that it is a matter of "flavour" and not power.<br />
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The fighter class gives you tons of options and no real direction. You can be a brute-strength-high-AC-tank fighter, you can be a highly-agile-nible-dodging-multi-attacking fighter, or you can be any of a million other options. And once you include all (or even just some) of the supplimental books for their feat selections, the options become almost endless. It is up to the player to come up with an interesting concept and then make it happen.<br />
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With other classes, you have variations, but most of them have a clear general direction due to their class abilities.<br />
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So, in terms of min-max-munchkin-power-curve-optimization, the fighter is just fine and, if done right, can stand toe to toe with most other characters. In terms of cool-conceptual-role-playing-story-based-fun, the fighter probably isn't the best choice.<br />
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But then, that's my 3.5 cents.<br />
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=== [[Special:Contributions/84.65.210.126|84.65.210.126]]&nbsp;<small><small>02:55, 30 May 2007 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
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Compare a fighter to a warblade. The fighter is very much the weaker of the two. To rectify this, I sugest a keen longsword or greatsword (any weapon with crit 19-20) and the improved critical feat. This makes the fighter crit 13-20. This may help the fighter to become stronger when paired with power attack and great cleave!<br />
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=== [[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]]&nbsp;<small><small>08:49, 30 May 2007 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
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Only thing being that Keen doesn't stack with Improved Critical- but if it did work, do it with a rapier...<br />
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=== [[Special:Contributions/71.146.160.50|71.146.160.50]]&nbsp;<small><small>05:12, 22 June 2007 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
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He is not so much underpowered, as set up to be a generalist in a specialist world. I mean, really, how many people ''want'' to take the time to learn how to use all those weapons only to end up specializing in 1. if that were the case i'd specialize in 1 from the beginning and pick up others as i deem them necessary. This also has the side-effect of making Sunder as an attack option more devastating.<br />
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=== [[Special:Contributions/150.101.226.26|150.101.226.26]]&nbsp;<small><small>22:17, 9 September 2007 </small></small> ===<br />
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i dont think the fighter is underpowered. sure if you fail to use his feat selections effectively youll make him pathetically weak but thats the same with the other classes if the fighters feat selections are used effectively thenthey can be as deadly as special abilities.<br />
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=== [[User:Tokara2132|Tokara2132]]&nbsp;<small><small>01:17, 11 September 2007</small></small> ===<br />
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Well, I have much experience playing fighters (my first ever D&D character was a fighter) and while it is a bit "bland" compared with the "fight unarmed and naked" monk, but the strength and power of the fighter comes not from a blandness of rules but the ability of the role player. The fact that the fighter can become just about any kind of fighter make it very versatile, and with a little imagination a fighter can easily be as complex and unique character. One need only look towards Rich Burlews brilliant Order of the Stick to illustrate that point. So it takes a little longer to Min/Max a fighter, big deal. I find it rather annoying that people try to Min/Max a game that requires a great amount of fore thought and planning. That is what Video Games are for. Sure, I enjoy myself a little Min/Maxing, but not when I can create a truly classic character, myself, even if it is just in my mind.<br />
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=== [[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]]&nbsp;<small><small>10:03, 15 September 2007 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
I think that blandness is the problem. It's not just more work to min/max a fighter; it's also more difficult to create a strong character without the central hook and inspiration given by a class. The other classes still need work doing, but they have the root and trunk of the character, so to speak, and just need the branches and leaves of background and personality; a fighter is only the root, without the pre-made "trunk" given by a class- Wizards are scholarly, good-aligned barbarians are noble but uncivilised, Clerics are devoted, Druids are half-wild, but a fighter is just that- someone who fights. Every other class does that, but they have a bit more on top.<br />
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It can be fun to mess around with the stereotypes, of course, but again, the fighter loses out because it doesn't really ''have'' a stereotype.<br />
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=== [[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]]&nbsp;<small><small>13:33, 15 September 2007 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
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You are right, though if you have in mind the "standard" fighter from fantasy movies (LotR, Troy, etc.) it can be quite cool. People say "a fighter with well chosen feats..." but it is really easy to muck it all up, just to choose things like cleave, that look cool, but become useless at higher levels. One thing I dont get is that a monk has better saves AND more special stuff than a fighter: you may get more choice with a fighter, but you loose out when it comes to actual gameplay. I've always prefered the fighter to the monk (It is just more cool. Fighting unarmed to "master yourself", meanwhile blathering on about Ki or Chi or whatever it is called this week is not just uncool, but seriously uncool). They just got lazy with the fighter. But it does seem that they are redoing it (see WotC page, though those that have seen the thing on the fighter may agree with me that we probably wont describe our fighters as "he's a sword and broad, man"). What I want is someone like Achilles, not the current fighter.<br />
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=== [[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]]&nbsp;<small><small>09:13, 17 September 2007 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
I like what they appear to be doing, too- rather than Generic Hitty Guy, the fighter is turning into a Weaponmaster- someone whose life revolves around weapons training. As far as I know, you'll have the choice of versatility (a talent or two with most weapons) or concentration, mastering their favoured weapon beyond all else.<br />
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Fighter/Cleric multi-classing could get interesting if there's a bit of Favoured Weapon stuff for Clerics...<br />
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===[[User:Verictord1768|Verictord1768]]&nbsp;<small><small>02:32, 12 February 2008 (MST)</small></small> ===<br />
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I honestly prefer playing a fighter in campaigns, of course I do play them a little off-beat of the run into melee range and hack away endlessly... I prefer to play them as a ranged class, taking feats from PHB, PHB2, Complete Warrior, and Complete Adventurer. At one point with feats alone my character maximum range for an arrow was effectively over a mile, while you can't see anything that far (unless there is no obscuring view of some sort, but even then their tiny)it seemed a little overpowered to our group. All combat feats are considered fighter feats, so you can get point blank shot and all the other goodies that make range combat ungodly overpowered. So essentially a fighter is limited to his feats and how well you can utilize them.<br />
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=== [[User:Kelly|Kelly]]&nbsp;<small><small>02:11, 14 February 2008 (MST)</small></small> ===<br />
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You know, I don't understand why anyone would think fighters are underpowered. They will pretty much wipe the floor with any other character of equivalent level in straight up combat, and have got the hit points to survive a hell of a lot of magic thrown at them. And in terms of playing an adventure, spellcasters have to constantly ration their spells, never sure if they might need them more later, while a fighter can just keep doing the thing they do best, encounter after encounter.<br />
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=== [[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]]&nbsp;<small><small>04:23, 14 February 2008 (MST)</small></small> ===<br />
But casters can often just rest to get their spells back (depending on the DM), and fighters fall flat if they get hit with a Save-or-Die (or worse, Dominate...).<br />
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=== [[User:Kelly|Kelly]]&nbsp;<small><small>18:23, 14 February 2008</small></small> ===<br />
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Yeah, that "Depending on the DM" bit is crucial. Myself, I don't like the video game style of play where spellcasters can just decide to rest whenever it's conveneient.<br />
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And doesn't everyone fall flat some variety of Save-or-Die spells? Just depends on the type. Remember, Disintegrate is a fort save, something Fighters are great at but most spellcasters aren't. And watch out for those poisoned arrows...<br />
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===[[Special:Contributions/70.67.223.212|70.67.223.212]]&nbsp;<small><small>19:19, 17 February 2008 (MST)</small></small> ===<br />
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Is it video game style to stop swinging a long sword at something immune to slashing damage?<br />
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=== [[User:Kelly|Kelly]]&nbsp;<small><small>19:53, 18 February 2008 (MST)</small></small> ===<br />
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Wow. I have no idea what that comment is supposed to mean.<br />
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=== [[User:Hijax|Hijax]]&nbsp;<small><small>12:08, 6 February 2009 (MST)</small></small> ===<br />
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kelly, while a fighter may be good at fort saves (and therefore disintegrate and the like), there's a TON of spells that use will saves. as 70.67.223.212 staed, dominate person/monster is a good example.<br />
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=== [[User:S1Q3T3|S1Q3T3]]&nbsp;<small><small>22:16, 14 February 2009 (MST)</small></small> ===<br />
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You can't talk about the Fighter class without talking about the power curve; some classes start off vulnerable and get really powerful (spellcasters, manifesters, monks), some start out strong and get better at a more stately pace (fighters, barbarians, rouges) while others, while they can be fun to play, are not very powerful and never will be (paladins, soulknives). A second level fighter is the king of ECL 2; with the right racial options, he can be at or near the top of the heap pushing ECL 10. After that, the casters that have been cowering behind him for a dozen levels will rapidly become more powerful than he is. As it must be, or else they will for nought have suffered through what at least ''should'' be many a near-death experience, courtesy of their poor armor class, hit points, and fighting skills.<br />
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The trouble is that the interdependence of the middle levels starts to break down in the upper levels. I don't know what the answer to that is, except to keep a tight rein (on spellcasters especially) and enforce their vulnerabilities and the limits of their magic. Then they will continue to respect the fighter's strong arm, and balance will be maintained.<br />
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Also, if you're going to play a fighter, optimize him! For example, dust off your ''Savage Species'' template rules, and take your standard Warforged (+2 Con, -2 Wis, -2 Cha), apply the Lolth-touched template (+6 Str, +6 Con, +1 LA) and Draconic (+2 Str, +2 Con, +2 Cha, +1 LA), and Incarnate Construct (-2 LA). You are left with an LA +0 race with +8 Str, +10 Con, -2 Wis. Give 'em a warforged fighter substitution level (''Races of Eberron'') and Improved Initiative, throw in an Aggressive trait from UA (+2 initiative) and you're left with +4 to hit and damage, insane Con, and +9 initiative -- at ECL 1. Go forth and terrorize those casters while you can!<br />
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=== [[User:DarkDank6666|DarkDank6666]] <small><small>12:27, March 9, 2009 (MST)</small></small> ===<br />
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In most regards many of you are right the fighter does drop in "Power" at higher levels most begin to see the curve at around 10-12th level when feats are not very valuable anymore unless you wait till epic but even then it gives only a slight advantage when dealing with similar level encounters. All feats that use an effect on another regarding a fort or will save at high level is a waste of a feat as most critters can easily pass these with ease. with the way the fighter is designed it appears it was never intended to be a solitary class in that a mix of classes and prestiges is required to stop from falling off the curve.<br /><br />
And yes if you have no idea about feats or combinations don't play a fighter because all your gonna do is ruin the parties survival rate. But if your crafting and want to spend "HOURS...." pouring over feats and creating your fighter feat tree then it can be worth it, i myself have a few epic fighters now while they stand no chance against a well prepared spell caster i say whos stupid enough to take on a spell caster when he is ready for you.<br /><br />
A fighter at high level requires the rest of the party just like at low level the party requires the fighter, a high level melee who is boosted by a high level cleric or mage or even both can be a war machine that can bring down entire armies for as long as the casters can maintain him.<br /><br />
If you make a comparison between a spell caster class and a non spell caster by themselves it really is no contest, but with the right feats and class combination or a well designed party (yeah right how many groups design their characters with each other in mind)nothing is impossible.<br />
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=== [[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]]&nbsp;<small><small>08:33, 9 March 2009 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
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{{Warning/Text}}<br />
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Second point; <br />
{{quote|some classes start off vulnerable and get really powerful (spellcasters, manifesters, monks)|src=Monkman|orig=[[Discussion:Is_the_fighter_underpowered?|Discussion]]}}<br />
This is not a discussion about the inadequacies of the manifesters, the lack of power of the monk or the steady power of the spellcasters, but rather a discussion on the lack of power found within the fighter, which brings us to the most important part of this; the main body.<br />
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I'm sure I'm going to have various posts later telling me I'm wrong, either about anything from this point onwards or anything before this point, but most of them are probably just from people who are trying to tear that bone apart. Anyhow, we move onto the main body.<br />
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The Fighter is a weak class, yes. This is a generally accepted idea from many persons and/or optimizers. Why is it weak? Because it gets nothing except feats. Perhaps if you add in the [http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20061013a Dead Level] powers from Wizards of the Coast, they'll seem more inspiring; but they're still lacklustre. The only way you can get a powerful attack from a Fighter is to build them specifically; because feats have pre-requisites and such, you're going to have to plan out your fighter, you can't just see it {{Warning/Text}}, if you do, you're not going to go anywhere fast. Then, there's the point that everyone else outclasses them; well except Samurai, Paladins, Truenamers and Monks, this is quite true. They are outclassed. A Barbarian gets rage and various other neat class features that can't be emulated by feats, the rogue gets extra damage from his sneak attack and a Wizard can cast spells that finish battles before they even know they're going to begin.<br />
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Of course, there is always the option of doing Monkman's idea; take every broken thing you can find and put it into your fighter, call it "optimization" and think you've done something radical. This is not what you should do, please put down Savage Species. It's a book that shouldn't be used, you don't want to try and show off how good a fighter is by breaking shit; what the hell is the point of that? Does it show a fighter is super-duper? Hell no, it shows x, y and z you tacked onto your fighter are. <br />
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I'll talk about what a fighter's true strength in a bit, but first we've got to ask the question; what good is a Fighter? Well, it's a dip class. Plain and simple. Two levels? Two feats and full HD. If you need a Fighter Feat, you can easily grab them with dipping. That's right, Fighter joins Paladin, Monk, Totemist and Lion-Totem Barbarian in that delicious distinction of dip class. There's simply no incentive to go to level 3; no class feature worth it. <br />
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Feats; they're good and all, but they're not class features. Class features are pretty much better than feats (in most cases; not, for example, Slow Fall or some other shit similar). What would you rather get? A feat of Combat Reflexes or, maybe (just maybe), Uncanny Dodge? Maybe if you're building towards a Control build, you'll want Combat Reflexes, but otherwise; who doesn't like retaining Dex to AC when flat-footed? Good times, eh? A feat is a nice thing, but a Fighter gets them and then starts drowning in them. When I've built a fighter, I've run out of feats to take. What do I take then? Toughness? Another piddly 3hp? Whoop-de-doo! But, let's stop focusing on the bad things about Fighters, let's see what good they have.<br />
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How to really work a Fighter? As Krusk once said, Power Attack (sure, he was talking about about Barbarians, but, y'know, it applies). Power Attacking is where the damage is in for a fighter. What a Fighter wants to do is stack feats that give them modifiers to their damage. A Fighter soon becomes a one-trick pony; hit the enemy with something sharp REALLY HARD. But, if you apply multipliers to your damage, soon the damage becomes more than any enemy can stand. Of course, then people bring up the idea that you just reduced all your attack to do alot of damage! Don't worry, you have FEATS to spare, so you pick up tactical feats to negate that attack bonus and shift it your AC. If your enemy's dead, it doesn't matter right?<br />
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Or you build a "Battlefield Controller". You use your feats to pick up a Spiked Chain, Combat Reflexes, Knock-Down, Improved Trip, Power Attack, Stand Still, Improved Disarm and various other things that have Improved in them to control a battlefield. Tripping people or just forcing them to stand still, you control your enemies by controlling where they can and they cannot go. You become as-though a sub-wizard (in the respects of minor battlefield control). Getting a permanent Enlarge Person (or a Ring of Continuous Enlarge Person) is easy enough and you threaten larger areas.<br />
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But, a Fighter lacks the true versatility that class may appear to have. It's good for beginners, because it's useful to get used to the feat-based 3.5 system and it's easy enough to just hit things. I, myself, enjoy this idea of just hitting things; it's always fun and has no fiddly mechanics behind it apart from "POWER ATTACK FOR FULL", which is always fun when you hit an enemy with your sword/club/pike/axe/{{Warning/Text}}/whatever/Eiji/party's monk (He's useful!)/chicken. But, ultimately, a Fighter lacks behind a well-played class, say; Wizard or even just a rogue. But, there must be some sort of saving grace for people who just want to take a sword and beat the shit out of something else, mustn't there?<br />
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Of course there is! That saving grave is the Tome of Battle and it's the shining awesome called the Warblade. He sits there, beckoning you to take him instead of Fighter. Why? Because he can do what a Fighter does, just better. With finesse!<br />
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So, ultimately; a fighter can be made into a decent damage dealer, but he'll never outshine the stronger classes because he's too specialized. He's too much of a one trick pony. If you really want a class like a fighter, with the feel of a fighter, but all the glamour of being a meaningful contribution, be a <s>monk</s> Warblade.<br />
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=== [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]]&nbsp;<small><small>09:54, 13 March 2009 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
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[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] please refrain from being rude to others users. This hinders communication and ultimately stops the discussion in it's tracks. Even though you have a valid point, it's validity is only hindered by you being rude. The warning is above. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:54, 13 March 2009 (MDT)<br />
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=== [[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]]&nbsp;<small><small>10:04, 13 March 2009 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
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Two paragraphs hinder an entire post. I see. This makes sense, amirite?<br />
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=== [[User:S1Q3T3|S1Q3T3]]&nbsp;<small><small>18:24, 14 March 2009 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
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Almost never.<br />
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When you presented your supposedly unbeatable spellcaster, he was a pathetic, cobbled-together weakling who died in a single round. You tried everything -- changing your tactics and your equipment and your feats {{Warning/Text}}. This is not surprising since, as you freely admitted, {{Warning/Text}} Your {{Warning/Text}} character got to ECL 20 via a pathetic 10hp at ECL 5, with no Improved Initiative until ECL 12. In no real campaign does that character live to ECL 20 to see you kill him with your ignorance of the rules and ass-backwards tactics.<br />
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=== [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]]&nbsp;<small><small>18:47, 14 March 2009 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
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[[User:S1Q3T3|S1Q3T3]] this is a warning. Please try to be nice to other users and refrain from personal attacks.<br />
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=== [[User:S1Q3T3|S1Q3T3]]&nbsp;<small><small>19:37, 14 March 2009 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
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=== [[User:Ganre|Ganre]]&nbsp;<small><small>06:06, 6 April 2009 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
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I do not think the fighter an under powered character, particularly with the addition of feats like Weapon Supremacy, Robilar's Gambit, and several others. The fighter does not tank like a Bar Bar, but he can take a fair amount of damage. He does not evade like a monk or rogue, but he can use his fists, or fire a bow with very good accuracy. The true strength of a Fighter is versatility.<br />
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=== [[Special:Contributions/96.12.48.209|96.12.48.209]]&nbsp;<small><small> 11:53, 6 April 2009 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
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Well i don't feel the fighter is underpowered. If any character is outshining all others i'd say it's more the DM's fault not the class in itself. yeah in a perfect world the wizard can always get his powerfull spells off and a rogue can always sneak attack. But D&D never should be so static and combat shouldn't always be so perfect. One thing nice about the fighter that i haven't seen mentioned is consistancy. A fighter is the most likely to consistantly hit and do dmg, while it may be a small amount it's consistant and reliable. And he can consistantly TAKE damage and rely on his armor. Another note is fighters have access to some awsome magical arms and heavy armor-keep that in mind as heavy armor is a class skill!<br />
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It's up to the DM to provide adventures where EVERY character has chances to stand out. No player should ever feel his character is inferior to any other character. If the party wizard is consistantly blasting away enemies before the fighter can close in than Dm has basically failed his role. below i will list some examples of WHY the fighter can shine and why he is still a powerfull class.<br />
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1)put in some small space dungeons- all of a sudden a wizards blasting area spells don't seem so so devastating, unless he wants to take out his party too!<br />
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2)go underwater!-some spell components just won't work under water or can be destroyed. some spells don't work altogether.<br />
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3)bring in some monsters with high relflex and will saves,energy resistance, spell resistance,and improved evasion. "what do you mean my spell had no effect!"<br />
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4)an evil thing i did- a sphere that had permanent anti magic field that filled a hole room. YEAH that was fun!<br />
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5)not all monsters are stupid! DM -use there skills and smarts! ex(monster- that wizard is killing us time to go for him!).<br />
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6)the wizard consistantly hides in the back even up into higher levels casting, provide a good suprise rear attack while a battle is going on ;)<br />
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7)"i'm out of powerfull spells, i need to rest!) it's ok for a wizard to rest and regain spells but not all the time! have the party be hunted by a foe they can't overcome where they need to push on to survive. Another nice thing to through in from time to time (remember the old school pool of radiance where you always wanted to rest but was attacked!) a wizard needs uninterupted rest to prepare or cast spells. have them attacked numerous times during the night and unable to ready spells! other things can interupt rest too-bad storms,false encounters, a stampede, earthquakes, a party going on, a character next door making love all night. these can be usefull mischeivious tricks that can be used on numerous characters where they rely on powers used in a day ;)<br />
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8) as a side note random nightly encounters don't always have to disupt spell preperation but it can be used when the wizard is low on spells and doesn't have many blasting spells left. this gives the fighter a chance to show his worth.<br />
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9)use random treasure. while catering to a parties needs is nice it shouldn't be done all the time. while magical treasure can be sold to purchase specific magic items a fighter can make good use of magical armor and weapons. If the party fighter apears to be falling behind the the rest of the party in aptitude hook him up with some good magic heavy armor or weapons.<br />
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in all the examples a fighters consistancy really stands out and gives him merit he's less effected by random events and scenerios. he might only be able to do 10-30 damage per hit but for the most part you can rely on him do so each round (and thats before he gets multiple attacks), and keep standing as well. while some classes seem more powerfull at later levels they never would have even gotten there if not for the fighter keeping them alive so long! also keep in mind that D&D is not a war game it's a RPG!!! a party is made up of individuals that make up a team if it seems one player is stronger in combat-SO WHAT!!! you get an equal share of treasure and experiance and your a vital part of the team that has a role no matter who tells you your class is inferior or what blog is written!!!! <br />
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in summary i wille state again that if a fighter is always being outshined it's because of the DM NOT WoTC. <br />
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here are some suggestions if an unexperianced DM has problems making his player fighter stand out without changing the rules.<br />
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1)give the player a chohort-yes leadership gives you a cohort but no where in the rules does it state that a player can't just attract one. maybe a cohort who can buff him would bring his so called low powerlevel up.<br />
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2)give the fighter access to a guild where he can buy/sell goods for decreased/increased price. this will give the fighter access to stronger magical items. since it will be used to increase the fighter only make it so items can be only sold and bought for his personal use only! maybe the guild can even give him bonus items or rewards for quests done in the guilds name!<br />
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3)use those additional books with new feats! a fighter is weakest if only the feats from the players handbook is used. there are some really good feats in other sources that can REALLY buff a fighter up. a lot of those feat have high prequisit feats making the fighter the most likey to ever even learn them!<br />
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-you might also allow fighters-only to take some feats from extra sources.<br />
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=== [[User:Surgo|Surgo]]&nbsp;<small><small>11:22, 6 April 2009 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
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Rogues should always be getting off their sneak attacks, otherwise they are failing as Rogues. Anyway, on to the points you were making...<br />
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''One thing nice about the fighter that i haven't seen mentioned is consistancy. A fighter is the most likely to consistantly hit and do dmg, while it may be a small amount it's consistant and reliable. And he can consistantly TAKE damage and rely on his armor.''<br />
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A fighter has the ability to consistently fail. You already admitted that the damage was small. The ability for the fighter to take damage is next to useless. You already admitted that the monsters should be smarter later down in the page. That means ignoring the fighter and going right to the people who are actually making a difference in the fight (the spellcasters and the Rogue). Ability to take damage is worthless when the game allows monsters to simply walk right past you.<br />
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''It's up to the DM to provide adventures where EVERY character has chances to stand out. No player should ever feel his character is inferior to any other character.''<br />
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The problem with this is that the fighter has so few options and generally sucks so hard it's hard for the DM to give any situation for the fighter where another character can't really do it better. Let's get to the individual points.<br />
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''1)put in some small space dungeons- all of a sudden a wizards blasting area spells don't seem so so devastating, unless he wants to take out his party too!''<br />
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Wizards have plenty of single-target spells, and generally don't "blast" in the first place. A blasting wizard is a weak wizard.<br />
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''2)give the fighter access to a guild where he can buy/sell goods for decreased/increased price. this will give the fighter access to stronger magical items. since it will be used to increase the fighter only make it so items can be only sold and bought for his personal use only! maybe the guild can even give him bonus items or rewards for quests done in the guilds name!''<br />
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The need for bonus magic items to make up for his own failures is basically an admission that the fighter, as written, is failing. Other classes don't need this boost.<br />
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''3)bring in some monsters with high relflex and will saves,energy resistance, spell resistance,and improved evasion. "what do you mean my spell had no effect!"''<br />
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There are plenty of spells, ''really good spells'', that bypass all of that. Amazing spells that don't allow a save or spell resistance. Reflex is generally the most useless save, by the way.<br />
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''4)an evil thing i did- a sphere that had permanent anti magic field that filled a hole room. YEAH that was fun!''<br />
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See response to #2.<br />
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''5)not all monsters are stupid! DM -use there skills and smarts! ex(monster- that wizard is killing us time to go for him!).''<br />
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This one just highlights the uselessness of the fighter, as I already mentioned. If the monsters are just walking past fighters, that means that the fighters are not contributing meaningfully to the fight.<br />
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''6)the wizard consistantly hides in the back even up into higher levels casting, provide a good suprise rear attack while a battle is going on ;)''<br />
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This would be convincing if Wizards couldn't easily make themselves better fighters than actual fighters. But they can, so this is rarely a big deal.<br />
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''7)''<br />
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By the time you're past level 5 or so, you won't be running out of spells. You'll have to rely on your lower level ones, sure, but there are plenty of those that stay awesome (like Silent Image).<br />
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''8)''<br />
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I don't quite understand this one.<br />
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''9)use random treasure.''<br />
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Of all points you've tried to make, this one is '''the worst''' because it actually '''bones fighters''' and Wizards don't care about it. Wizards don't need magical gear to be powerful. Fighters '''do''', and they need ''very specific gear''. Giving random treasure screws fighters ''hard'' because they can't get the crap that they ''need' to even attempt to keep up with the other classes.<br />
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Also:<br />
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''a lot of those feat have high prequisit feats making the fighter the most likey to ever even learn them!''<br />
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Most of those feats are pretty bad. That's the problem with feats: they mostly suck. Maybe if feats were better (and [[Races of War (3.5e Sourcebook)|they have been made so]]) I'd be more convinced.<br />
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=== [[User:Ganre|Ganre]]&nbsp;<small><small>06:29, 7 April 2009 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
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"The problem with this is that the fighter has so few options and generally sucks so hard it's hard for the DM to give any situation for the fighter where another character can't really do it better. Let's get to the individual points." Surgo<br />
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No-one has more options than a Fighter, he gets 19 feats through his progression. He can literally qualify for any other Feat, generally with just a small dip into another class. If you think the ability to take damage is irrelevant, your DM is not throwing high enough damage bad-guys against you. When the party encounters a Frenzied Berserker, I'll bet your wizard will appreciate someone to stand in front of him. --[[User:Ganre|Ganre]] 06:29, 7 April 2009 (MDT)<br />
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=== [[User:Surgo|Surgo]]&nbsp;<small><small>07:39, 7 April 2009 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
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Maybe if the ability to have feats actually meant something, I'd be impressed by the fighter's ability to gain 19 of them. Unfortunately, feats suck, thus that ability sucks.<br />
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I thought I explained this one pretty well, but I guess not: it's not that the ability to take damage by itself is irrelevant. It's that the ''fighter's'' ability to take damage is irrelevant. Because as it stands now a monster can basically walk past the fighter onto targets that are actually worthwhile to attack and not even care. If your whole lot in life is to take damage, and you can't even make monsters care about you enough to damage you instead of somebody else, you've failed.<br />
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=== [[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]]&nbsp;<small><small>10:07, 7 April 2009 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
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Knights are much better at just taking damage because they are actually a little sticky so guys can't move away from them so easily. There are some decent fighter builds involving spiked chains, but I think that is the best the fighter is going to get: decent.<br />
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=== [[User:Ganre|Ganre]]&nbsp;<small><small>15:38, 7 April 2009 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
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So this has turned into feats suck, not fighters suck? I am sorry, but i fail to see how raising your damage by 4 or more every hit sucks, over the 250 encounters or so a character can be expected to participate in, a fighter will probably hit something at least 5-10 times, more at later levels, so that comes out to 5K-10K increased damage over his career. Not to mention, with Weapon Supremecy, he can take 10 on attack rolls. I've seen a fighter with improved trip and weapon supremecy murder a paladin, a ranger, and a monk. It comes down to how you play the fighter.<br />
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=== [[User:Lord Dhazriel|Lord Dhazriel]]&nbsp;<small><small>16:06, 7 April 2009 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
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Meh Bite of the Werebear increase your damages by +8 and your attack by +8, give you other shinny like nat armor and nat attack. It a mere spell, not a 8th-9th one, maybe a 6th level one (at least I believe). Divine Power... just divine power. Spells outshine fighter feats, a feat is generally weaker then a class feature anyway. Proof: increasing Sneak Attack by 1d6 is an epic feat. Feats are way to customize your character, by synergy with your character's class features. Metamagic are a good example. The fighter only get feats, no class feature. No synergy, no power. Look at all those rage's feats, look at all metamagic feats, look at all the feats in fact. Clerics get their own feats (mostly divine metamagic feats), wizard and sorcerer egt their own feats (metamagic). The rogue get TWF (synergy with Sneak Attack), Again the fighter lack this synergy, he can't increase his own ability through it, thus he lack one of the biggest source of power in the game. <br />
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=== [[User:Surgo|Surgo]]&nbsp;<small><small>16:21, 7 April 2009 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
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''So this has turned into feats suck, not fighters suck?''<br />
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Considering how the fighter's class features consist '''solely''' of getting feats, a discussion involving fighters pretty much has to.<br />
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=== [[User:Ganre|Ganre]]&nbsp;<small><small>01:32, 8 April 2009 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
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Thanks for addressing the rest of my point, Surgo, not taking one part and commenting solely on that, o, wait...<br />
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Bite of the Werebear, Divine Power, Righteous Might, all of these take spells slots, those can be spent, stolen, countered by a variety of methods. Weapon spec/Greater Spec, Melee Weapon Mastery, Weapon Supremecy, all of these are always on. If you hit an Iron Collosus, 100 Ft antimagic aura, you still get the benefit of your feats. If you are underwater, that guy that specout out his spell casting, he can't even speak, Fighter's feats? still work. The point i am getting at is consistancy, you can count on weapon spec giving you 2 damage every time. You get synergy with it as well, Two-Weapon Fighting can mean double benefit from all of his fighter feats.<br />
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=== [[User:Surgo|Surgo]]&nbsp;<small><small>01:47, 8 April 2009 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
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''Thanks for addressing the rest of my point, Surgo, not taking one part and commenting solely on that, o, wait...''<br />
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I thought Lord Dhazriel did a pretty good job of commenting on it.<br />
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If you cast a spell to do something that the fighter would do, only better, you still have (n-1) spell slots and are ''also'' better at fighting than the fighter. That's just embarrassing, and this is the basic problem that the fighter has. A quick dash of Persistent Spell (available for free to both Clerics and Wizards by various methods) makes the effects always on. There's even a second level Sorcerer/Wizard spell that gives you a fighter bonus feat. I wish I was joking about that.<br />
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I'm not really concerned about the random Iron Colossus because not only are they CR 33 and long past the point where the game stopped making sense, they are also neutered by a single level 3 spell (along with the rest of the closet troll family). And seeing as how the iron colossus is the only such example of a monster who could in theory maybe make spells stop working (both clerics and wizards have hilarious ways to be immune to antimagic field long before epic), that's a pretty horrible argument. (And I'm seriously not concerned about an Iron Colossus when I'm level 33. It's not even a monster, it's a ''trap''.)<br />
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Fighter's "consistency" isn't worth writing home about. Another class can cast Polymorph and make it last all day (there's your consistency), and then right there you're a better fighter than the Fighter. And you still have (n-1) spell slots left to spend on other things. Next to something like that, Fighters are a complete joke.<br />
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''those can be spent, stolen, countered by a variety of methods''<br />
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No, they really can't. You can become immune to Dispel Magic with a +2 weapon. Seriously. And even if you couldn't, Dispel Magic isn't exactly an equalizer.<br />
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=== [[User:Ganre|Ganre]]&nbsp;<small><small>06:34, 8 April 2009 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
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How are you "immune" to an antimagic field? Even if you are out side of it, you can't cast into it. Your +2 weapon? as a wizard, you will be disarmed by someone with a half decent base attack, let alone someone who is good at it. Persistent Polymorph is a 10th level spell. The monster i am refering to I think is in MM2, and it's a CR 9 construct with Mordenkainen's Disjunction at will. This is a bit of an extreme example, but it is for illustration. And the Iron Colossus seems a like it's in the creatures section of the epic handbook in my lap here... The point is, you think that fighter is under-powered, and no arguement presented will change that. Perhaps you are looking at it from the wrong angle. If a class is performing outside it's CR, perhaps it is overpowered.<br />
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=== [[User:Surgo|Surgo]]&nbsp;<small><small>10:13, 8 April 2009 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
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Initiate of Mystra makes clerics able to cast in / have their spells work in Antimagic Fields, Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil makes Wizards immune to them (and all other spells for that matter).<br />
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''Persistent Polymorph is a 10th level spell.''<br />
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Did you miss that part where clerics and wizards have way to get Persistent Spell on their castings for free?<br />
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''Your +2 weapon? as a wizard, you will be disarmed by someone with a half decent base attack, let alone someone who is good at it.''<br />
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You don't need to wield it to get the benefit.<br />
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''The monster i am refering to I think is in MM2, and it's a CR 9 construct with Mordenkainen's Disjunction at will.''<br />
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Unless you tell us what this monster actually is, no one can respond to this.<br />
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''Perhaps you are looking at it from the wrong angle. If a class is performing outside it's CR, perhaps it is overpowered.''<br />
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Fighters perform significantly under their CR, and fail everything in the same game test.<br />
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=== 174.10.246.219 on 10th April 2009 ===<br />
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Surgo you seem to favor all these high level spells which is fine. but the way i see it fighters are stronger than wizards under level 10 or so. <br />
Yes by this statement i admit that at later levels a waizard is probably more powerfull than a fighter BUT over there hole career it balances out. you crossed some of my points so i will do the same.<br />
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5)not all monsters are stupid! DM -use there skills and smarts! ex(monster- that wizard is killing us time to go for him!).<br />
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"This one just highlights the uselessness of the fighter, as I already mentioned. If the monsters are just walking past fighters, that means that the fighters are not contributing meaningfully to the fight." <br />
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Actually fighters usually do hold the front ranks so you just pointed out how usefull they can be. If not for a fighter holding the front ranks a wizard would hardly last long enough to get off those precious spells you favor so much OR survive long enough to get powerfull spells.<br />
Fighters are great at holding the front line so give credit were credit is due. Also you took just one side of my point, going after a wizard doesn't have to mean moving past the fighter to get to you! They could rain down arrows (at mid to higher levels this would probably be canceled out by your precious spells),target the wizard with there own spells, summon monster behind the wizard to attack him, use a magical item(horn of blasting,wand, necklace of missles etc), breath weapon, barrow underground,fly, release a trap. those really aren't the fighters failings just situations ALL characters have to deal with.<br />
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"Wizards don't need magical gear to be powerful"<br />
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Really!? last i knew scrolls and spell books were magic items which is where wizards get most of there spells. how many different spells would you have, to overcome variable situations without them?<br />
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"By the time you're past level 5 or so, you won't be running out of spells. You'll have to rely on your lower level ones, sure, but there are plenty of those that stay awesome (like Silent Image)."<br />
and how many of those spells could you get off on say 6 ogres and disable or kill them without a fighter bidding you time holding them off at say level 6? The party i Dm usually pushes on instead of resting after every encounter everaging 4-5 such battles a day. this usually has the wizies saving spells per encounter and letting the fighter fill his role allowing him to exploit his consistant damage.<br />
<br />
"Most of those feats are pretty bad. That's the problem with feats: they mostly suck."<br />
NO most of the feats in the PhB sucks some are still good. lets look at a level 5 fighter with at least a 20 strength (22-24 is reasonable as well by lvl 5)a +1 keen falchion (8k easy by level 5) and using power attack at +5 and specialized. 2d4 +7 (2hnd str)+2(spec.)+1(magic enh.)+10(2hnd power atack) and crits on a 15-20 x2. Thats 22-28 dmg and 44-56 on a crit which crits 25% of the time and the attack is still made at +7 to hit with no save 100% of the time and unlimited use. thats good damage at lvl 5 no matter how you look at it. at lvl six that would jump to 2 attacks as well and improved power attack could be made use of. you could also take monkey grip and fight with a giant falchion or weapon. also if a fighter builds his intimidate up like he should he can avoid encounters altogether by sheer intimidation, just as a wizard can incipacitate or avoid encounters with spells. <br />
<br />
"initiate of Mystra makes clerics able to cast in / have their spells work in Antimagic Fields, Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil makes Wizards immune to them (and all other spells for that matter)."<br />
<br />
aren't those prestige classes? we're talking about Base classes. fighters can take many prestige classes too.<br />
<br />
in the end i still don't feel there underpowered, there just taken for granted and underapreciated. they usually do there job well so players begin to overlook the aid of the fighter. As i keep saying. if a fighter hasn't been holding the ranks then a wizard wouldn't have even survived this long. take a fighter and a wizard-adventure them SOLO to level 20 and see who lives to see level 20 or get there 1st- i bet it would be the fighter as the wizard would have to fight such weak enemies by himself that by the time he would get to level 2 the fighter would be at level 5. In my campaign the fighter plays a valuable role and isn't so underapreciated for the players realize his use and role. they often spend ther own cash aiding the fighter with stronger magic items not because he is weak but because a stronger fighter makes a stronger party and in turn makes the rogues and wizies stronger as a team.<br />
<br />
(Sign your posts)<br />
<br />
<br />
=== [[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]]&nbsp;<small><small>10:45, 10 April 2009 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
<br />
First off, guy above me; dear god, could you attempt to type in proper English? I'm having a hard time reading what you just said because it looks terrible, dude. Anyway...<br />
<br />
Point #1: Fighters aren't good at holding the front line without very specific builds of Battlefield Control. A Crusader or Warblade is much better at holding the front line, using Thicket of Blades stance and various maneuvers to keep people where you want them. A Fighter is capable of Battlefield Control, but he loses out so much to Crusader or Warblade, which are classes similar to the Fighter (in their role, not design). But, a Wizard is leaps and bounds better at Battlefield Control than a Fighter. Yes, even at level 1.<br />
<br />
Point #2: Wizards are powerful from level 1 to level 20. Their real power leap comes at about level 9 or 11, but before that they have plenty of spells that can quickly shut down a battle with ease. What's the Fighters will save at level 1? Will he be able to take [[Color_spray|Color Spray]]? Will your enemy be able to take it? That's a finisher right there. [[Sleep]], [[Deep slumber|Deep Slumber]], [[Charm person|Charm Person]], [[Charm monster|Charm Monster]], [[Solid_fog|Solid Fog]], [[Cloudkill]], Orb of X, etc, etc. The Wizard has spells that can fill nearly any given situation and just taking a single prestige class, which only has the problem of a naff requirement feat (Spell Focus(Abjuration) and Greater Spell Focus(Abjuration)), the Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil can just decimate, being immune to spells when he reaches level 7.<br />
<br />
Point #3: Spellbooks aren't magical. The Wizard only has a minor need for magic items. Infact, all he needs is items, mundane ones for spell components and the spellbook. Scrolls, Staves, Wands and Wondrous Items are all just bonuses to the mighty power of the Wizard. Only the Druid can say that he doesn't need any of that. A +1 Eager / +1 Warning Quarterstaff is just a nice toy for the Wizard, he doesn't need it (especially with Celerity spells). A Fighter DOES need magic items. The Fighter is one of the classes that really does need magic items. Unless he picks his race specifically, how's he going to fly? Flying is really necessary for later levels and it's useful at earlier levels. The Wizard can do it at level 5 and then do it for an entire day at level 9. Can the Fighter?<br />
<br />
Point #4: Battles, by the definitions in the DMG, should be averaging at 4 CR appropriate encounters per day (Each takes 25% of the resources of a 4-man party). 6 Ogres? [[Color_spray|Colour Spray]]. Will save (+1 wut) or be stunned and blinded for 1d4 rounds and then stunned for another 1 round. Using metamagic enhancements, you can easily get any of them in that there area. Boom. That's a single level 1 spell. According the [http://www.penpaperpixel.org/tools/d20encountercalculator.htm Encounter Calculator], 6 ogres (CR 3) vs a Level 5 Wizard is a CR 8 encounter and "Unbeatable".<br />
<br />
Point #5: Your example of a Fighter at level 5 is... Wrong. 8k is "easy by level 5", really? The WBL is 9k for level 5. You just spent all your money on that weapon there. That means you have to be a Half-Orc (or another LA +0 creature with +2 Strength) with STR 17/18 (or an Orc, or another LA +0 creature with +4 strength, with 15/16 strength) to get 20 strength by level 5. It's not entirely unreasonable to assume this, you just didn't mention a race, so I have to guess here. First, your attack doesn't "crit 25% of the time", it makes a threat 25% of the time (and only crits 5% of the time). So... You're doing al that and then the Wizard just casts, say... [[Color_spray|Color Spray]]?<br />
<br />
Point #6: Let's not go all about just Fighters vs Wizards. Let's go for the Warblade (The replacement Fighter). He can do all that (except for specialization, he doesn't get that till level 6), but he also uses maneuvers and various other sweet things that will just decimate an encounter far easier than a Fighter can. So... Why is the Fighter good if people do stuff better than him again?<br />
<br />
Point #7: Intimidation sucks.<br />
<br />
Point #8: Initiate of Mystra is a feat for Clerics.<br />
<br />
Point #9: Actually, a Fighter can't take that many Prestige Classes. Alot of Prestige Classes normally require spellcasting or a class feature. Guess what the Fighter lacks? Class features. Wizard is generally prestige'd from at level 5, because a prestige class gives you what the wizard gives except for some more feats (unless you go Loremaster, which does this anyway). While Prestige Classes are not essential, the Wizard's extreme power is only accented by these classes, rather than reliant on them.<br />
<br />
Point #10: The Fighter is not a base class. It is a dip class. It is two levels long. Why on earth would you take Fighter 3? There is just no reason to do so; it's a useless level and offers you absolutely nothing except a +1 BAB. Like Monk and Totemist, it's a dip class. Quite a few builds use it because all it gets is feats; a Warblade 7 / Fighter 2 is a generally regarded way of getting good Battlefield Control with a melee build.<br />
<br />
Point #11: Maybe in your campaign, yes. But, in general; the Fighter's role is easily replicated through classes that actually get class features. The Fighter is merely an attempt to create diversity; but feats never replace class features. Rage will always be better than Weapon Focus. Sneak Attack will always trump Weapon Specialization. Warblades will only come second in the sheer amount of feats that the Fighter gets; and does anyone EVER need that many feats? Not really.<br />
<br />
Point #12: Sign your posts, like it says.<br />
<br />
=== [[User:Ganre|Ganre]]&nbsp;<small><small>16:20, 10 April 2009 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
<br />
I just wanted to point out, it's a lot easier to crit once you've threatened, so that 5% is inaccurate. so with a +12 to hit, critter with 22 AC. you need to to roll a 10 to hit, that's 55% success. Tha's 12.5% Also, with the addition of the PHB 2 feats, i feel fighter is no longer a dip class, there are some really interesting things it can do at high level. One last thing, if the wizard in your group is out performing everyone else, perhaps he needs to be toned down, not turn the fighter into a blender of death. <br />
<br />
=== [[User:Lord Dhazriel|Lord Dhazriel]]&nbsp;<small><small>17:16, 10 April 2009 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
<br />
The we need to tone down a load of classes. I couldn't list them all. The best fighter is a 2nd level fighter with a lot of PrC. The best fighting men is a warblade or a crusader. Also: The warblade can learn the fighter tricks, he got a class feature allowing him to get fighter feats (warblade level -2). So yeah, you better go with the awesome F&K Fighter.<br />
<br />
=== [[User:Ganre|Ganre]]&nbsp;<small><small>22:08, 10 April 2009 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
<br />
Well, that means in any games I run, you won't find a Warblade, because doing that robs high level fighters of their uniqueness.<br />
<br />
== maru hatsune ==<br />
<br />
well personally It depends on your who build of your fighter and your equipment as well. if you make your fighter a tank type with power attack feats and a strong weapon, than yeah it could stand a chance. not to mention you can always charge at the nearest sorcerer and try to choke them out or something.<br />
<br />
but over all i think spellcaster types have alittle more of an edge especially at higher lvls.<br />
god damn my friend and his phantasmal killer.<br />
<br />
=== [[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]]&nbsp;<small><small>11:06, 1 August 2009 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
Ganre, you say that the Warblade robs high-level fighters of their uniqueness, but they do no such thing; let me explain. The uniqueness of Fighter is not tied to the feats they can take. It's tied to the *number* of feats they can take. No other class really makes them redundant since no other class can gain a generic bonus feat without losing BAB. For example, a high-level Fighter can have Stand Still, Thicket of Blades (gained via feats), Greater Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Specialization, Melee Weapon Mastery, Supreme Melee Weapon Mastery, Shock Trooper, Combat Brute, Spirited Charge and more; Warblades can't do that. So instead of saying that the Warblade makes the Fighter redundant, it might be more correct to say that the two classes are taken for different reasons (forget for a moment about flavor, let's concentrate on what makes a class a class--the mechanics). Warblade is taken for its maneuvers, access to schools, and class abilities. Fighter is taken for the bonus feats it gets. Neither invalidates the other.<br />
<br />
Now, if only getting access to bonus feats is weak when compared to the things that virtually every other class gets... that's a different discussion. But neither class makes the other redundant, since their mechanical bits in combat are completely dissimilar.<br />
<br />
== Maru hatsune ==<br />
<br />
I have to agree with ghostwheel on that one. not to mention the main build for a fighter is feats which is absolutely unique to all the class, since most of their build are based on special abilities and all.<br />
BTW: what book is the warblade class on?<br />
<br />
== Nicholas ==<br />
<br />
It has occured to me that in my party, the linear progression (squishy lvl 1 wizards, strong lvl 2 fighters) doesn't matter: We don't play low level campaigns (lvl 1-3) and only occasionally play below fifth. So our fighters hit the ground worthless. Maybe other people use the first five levels?<br />
<br />
=== [[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]]&nbsp;<small><small>02:09, 3 August 2009 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
<br />
Even at level 1, wizards and druids can overpower other classes. Druids get a war-trained riding dog, which is stronger than just about every other meleer at level 1, and wizards get access to Color Spray/Sleep, spells that destroy a whole encounter in one go.<br />
<br />
Maru: Warblade is in Tome of Battle.<br />
<br />
=== [[User:Jamesja12|Jamesja12]]&nbsp;<small><small>11:20, 4 August 2009</small></small> ===<br />
<br />
I'm not sure but if the fighter gets great cleave he can take out a entire army of low levels in one go.<br />
<br />
=== [[User:Crashpilot|Crashpilot]]&nbsp;<small><small>09:13, 3 March 2011 (MST)</small></small> ===<br />
It is an old discussion but I want to answer anyway.<br />
<br />
Are fighters underpowered? Well that would depend on the point of view. A fighter with the right abilities and feats can seriously damage any<br />
opponent that is susceptable to melee and can do that on a regular bases. With this I mean they are not subject to the need to flank someone, ambush , suddon strike etc. The damage is good (not uber) but flatrated. In that regard they are powerfull. In reality however the fighter lacks a large portion of simple roleplaying. They barely get skill points and it doesn't realy make sense to place a lot of points into int. Essencially they can hit hard but there it ends. A mage for example has loads of spells that may be used to perform RP tasks, divination, scrying, comprehend languages, read magic, etc.etc. and therefor has both large amounts of damage plus atleast the option to roleplay well. The bard has Bardic knowledge to be very usefull in that regard and spells to assist, a rogue has so many points that it will be able to train information and knowledge gathering skills to high levels without sacrificing any functionality. In that regard the fighter is underpowered and will fit any roleplayingphobe well, but people who want more then just bash skulls will find that fighters are highly frustrating becouse they cannot do much more then attack.<br />
<br />
== fighter Vs wizard ==<br />
<br />
All of you have made good point. But the one thing you are for getting is that Wizard are not just to suppost to receive new spell when they level. They have to find someone to train them on the new spell or scirbe scroll. So that mean that they have to find there spells after level one. They just don't automaticaly get them. The DM decides what spells the wizard can find and what gear the fighter fines. I know most people just let there spell casters just pick there spells out of the book. You as a DM have control over how every encounter and abitily or spell that comes into play for the other players. There should never be a over powered character. What is the wizard going to do when they go to a Anti magic zone where there fire ball become mere sparks. And to the comment about the fighter holding the line and not letting the monster get pasted him. I don't think a fighter could hold back an ancient dragon. I don't care if he has +10 mod to str. he would be dust in the wind to that dragon moving pasted him.<br />
<br />
=== [[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]]&nbsp;<small><small>15:07, 5 August 2011 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
<br />
A wizard begins play with a spellbook containing all 0-level wizard spells (except those from her prohibited school or schools, if any; see School Specialization, below) plus three 1st-level spells of your choice. For each point of Intelligence bonus the wizard has, the spellbook holds one additional 1st-level spell of your choice. At each new wizard level, she gains two new spells of any spell level or levels that she can cast (based on her new wizard level) for her spellbook. <br />
<br />
its automatic. a wizard just gains spells when they level. no teacher required. it represents learning and research, just as much as the big lummox swinging a sword all day picks up feats.<br />
<br />
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{{Forumfooter|Discussion}}<br />
__NOTOC__</div>Name Violationhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Bellatoren_(3.5e_Race)&diff=529042Talk:Bellatoren (3.5e Race)2011-08-05T21:06:11Z<p>Name Violation: Created page with "all racial adjustments use even numbers. so eithe +2 or +4 --~~~~"</p>
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<div>all racial adjustments use even numbers. so eithe +2 or +4 --[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 15:06, 5 August 2011 (MDT)</div>Name Violationhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Zen_Shadow_Archer_(3.5e_Prestige_Class)&diff=527170Talk:Zen Shadow Archer (3.5e Prestige Class)2011-07-26T04:10:30Z<p>Name Violation: Created page with "whats with the "better than perfect BAB" bab? at most it should be BAB=level. if you want a better to-hit, give them a flat bonus to hit--~~~~"</p>
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<div>whats with the "better than perfect BAB" bab? at most it should be BAB=level. if you want a better to-hit, give them a flat bonus to hit--[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 22:10, 25 July 2011 (MDT)</div>Name Violationhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=SRD_Talk:Improved_Familiar&diff=527046SRD Talk:Improved Familiar2011-07-24T21:59:41Z<p>Name Violation: </p>
<hr />
<div>Not a matter of killer importance, but a matter's a matter, right? <BR><br />
Shocker Lizard familiar, it's type (Or subtype) appears to be 'electricity' which also links to the 'SED:Electricity' Article, forgive me if I'm wrong but..<BR><br />
First point, the other elements begin with a capital letter, why not 'electricity'?<BR><br />
Second point, there's no SRD on Electricity (Nor SED to Electricity). So the link is a mere waste.<BR><br />
Am I wrong? --[[User:SgtLion|SgtLion]] 12:51, 17 October 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:Thats the way it is in the SRD. No, it makes no sense. --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 19:05, 17 October 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
Instead of Linking to Shocker Lizard, it links to Lizard.--[[User:Milo v3|Milo High-Hill]] 04:42, 24 July 2011 (MDT)<br />
<br />
also homunculus is a construct --[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 15:59, 24 July 2011 (MDT)</div>Name Violationhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Ani-Men,_Lion-Man_(3.5e_Race)&diff=526789Ani-Men, Lion-Man (3.5e Race)2011-07-22T00:04:58Z<p>Name Violation: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{x0<br />
|la=+0<br />
|ecl=1<br />
|type= Humanoid<br />
|ability_adjust= +2 Str, +2 Dex <br />
|size=Medium<br />
|favored_class= Paladin or Crusader (1st class chosen counts as Favored)<br />
|desc= A hybrid of a lion and a human. Lion-men are zealous and (perhaps overly) righteous.<br />
}}<br />
<br />
=The Lion-Men=<br />
<br />
==Personality==<br />
<br />
When it comes to strength of body and soul, the lion-men are unparallelled among the ani-men. Zealous and righteous, perhaps to a fault, the lion-men do not like those who commit transgressions upon others, and they will never hesitate to destroy evil when they see it. Lion-men, above all, pursue anything they desire or need with enthusiasm and vigor.<br />
<br />
==Physical Description==<br />
<br />
Lion-men are among the biggest of the ani-men. Most of them are 6 feet tall, with many lion-men weighing over 170 pounds, with the women being only being slightly lesser in these areas. Lion-men have cat-like eyes and golden complexions. The men are well-known for having long, flowing hair growing from their head and neck, much like a lion's mane.<br />
<br />
Lion-men are the longest lived of the ani-men, reaching adulthood at 35 years and living over 400 years.<br />
<br />
==Relations==<br />
<br />
Lion-men get along well with [[humans]] overall, as do the rest of the ani-men. Most lion-men gain lasting friendships with [[dwarves]]. The long lives of the lion-men, combined with similar philosophies, make these friendships possible. It is also not a shock to many when a lion-man is seen with a warforged.<br />
<br />
==Alignment==<br />
<br />
The lion-men believe in the power of law and doing that which is right. In that respect, most lion-men are lawful good. In fact, lion-men are at least lawful or good. They do not enjoy others commiting wrongs against others, so evil lion-men are very rare.<br />
<br />
==Lands==<br />
<br />
Although lion-men do not have any lands of their own, they can easily be found in small groups throughout various large cities. Most often, a lion-man can be found at a temple or church, especially a temple of Heironeous. Small bands of lion-men can also be found in royal houses and places of nobility as their size makes them intimidating bodyguards.<br />
<br />
==Religion==<br />
<br />
Among the ani-men, the lion-men are the most religious. They see the good gods as a portal to enlightenment and divinity, and will not hesitate to fight in their name. Most often, lion-men worship Heironeous, the god of valor, but some also serve Pelor or St. Cuthbert.<br />
<br />
==Language==<br />
<br />
Lion-men speak Common, and if they learn other languages, they tend towards languages pertaining to their religion.<br />
<br />
==Names==<br />
<br />
As with all ani-men, lion-men take human names<br />
<br />
==Racial Traits==<br />
<br />
* +6 [[Strength]], +4 [[Dexterity]], +4 [[Int]]: Lion-men are very muscular, and quick on thier feet. <br />
* [[Humanoid]]: Lion-Men look like large humans.<br />
* [[Medium]]: Lion-men get no bonuses or penalties due to size<br />
* The lion-man’s [[base land speed]] is 40 feet<br />
* The lion-man has a [[bite]] attack that deals 1d6 damage.<br />
* Skills: Lion-men are swift and sneaky, so they gain +4 to hide, +4 to spot, search, bluff,sense motive<br />
* Courage ([[Ex]]): The lion-man gets a +2 bonus on [[Will]] saves against mind-affecting abilities and fear effects. Lions are the symbol of courage, and lion-men are no different.<br />
* [[Automatic Languages]]: Common.<br />
* [[Bonus Languages]]: Celestial, Draconic, Elven, Infernal, Orc.<br />
* [[Favored Class]]: [[Paladin]] or Crusader (1st class chosen counts as Favored). A multiclass lion-man’s paladin or crusader class does not count when determining whether he takes an experience point penalty for multiclassing. Lion-men usually fight for a cause.<br />
* [[Level Adjustment]]: +2<br />
<br />
==Vital Statistics==<br />
<br />
{| class="d20" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"<br />
|+ Table: Lion-Man Random Starting Ages<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
! Adulthood || Simple || Moderate || Complex<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| 35 years || +2d4 || +4d4 || +7d4<br />
|}<br />
<br />
{| class="d20" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"<br />
|+ Table: Lion-Man Aging Effects<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
! Middle Age<sup>1</sup> || Old<sup>2</sup> || Venerable<sup>3</sup> || Maximum Age<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| 100 years || 170 years || 240 years || +2d% years<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| colspan="5" class="foot" |<br />
# At middle age, &minus;1 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha.<br />
# At old age, &minus;2 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha.<br />
# At venerable age, &minus;3 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
{| cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" class="d20"<br />
|-<br />
|+ Table: Lion-Man Random Height and Weight<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
! style="text-align: left;" | Gender || Base Height || Height Modifier || Base Weight || Weight Modifier<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| style="text-align: left;" | Male || 5' || +2d12 || 130 lbs. || &times; (2d4) lbs.<br />
|- class="even" style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| style="text-align: left;" | Female || 4' 9" || +2d12 || 110 lbs. || &times; (2d4) lbs.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
{{3.5e Races Breadcrumb}}<br />
[[Category:DnD]]<br />
[[Category:3.5e]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Race]]<br />
[[Category:Humanoid Type]]<br />
[[Category:Feline Subtype]]<br />
[[Category:Medium Size]]<br />
[[Category:LA0]]<br />
[[Category:ECL1]]</div>Name Violationhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Mr._Watchtower_(3.5e_NPC)&diff=526386Talk:Mr. Watchtower (3.5e NPC)2011-07-15T21:24:29Z<p>Name Violation: Created page with "he cant be an arcane archer 10/ranger 5. he needs a bab of 6 and the ability to cast arcane spells. take a level of wizard. so minimum for this build is wiz1/ranger6/Arcane arche..."</p>
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<div>he cant be an arcane archer 10/ranger 5. he needs a bab of 6 and the ability to cast arcane spells. take a level of wizard. so minimum for this build is wiz1/ranger6/Arcane archer 8 for the cr15 --[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 15:24, 15 July 2011 (MDT)</div>Name Violationhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=War_Wraith_(3.5e_Template)&diff=526066War Wraith (3.5e Template)2011-07-13T03:15:06Z<p>Name Violation: </p>
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<div> <br />
== War Wraith ==<br />
<br />
{{ImageNeeded|align=left}}<br />
<br />
[[3e Summary::A Soul with such a Strong Will to Continue Fighting Their Soul Remains Bound to their already dead Body]]<br />
<br />
A War Wraith comes to be when a Soul with such a Strong Will to Continue Fighting Their Soul Remains Bound to their already dead Body. though the body continues to rot and rots at unnaturally fast rate the bone remains intact and will regenerate. A War Wraith Appears to be a skeleton With the Ghost of the creature overlapping it. the ghost has some Spectral flames coming off of it, The color of the Ghost and Flames are the same though the color themselves varies. The Spectral Flames of a War Wraith give of some like making it slightly easier to see. War Wraiths Can Wear armor and use Weapons as easily as it could in life. The Creatures Skeleton Can Change Color From Its transformation into a War Wraith The color change also Varies<br />
<br />
=== Creating a War Wraith===<br />
<br />
Acquired template. Can be Applied to any creature living creature that has died by means of magic binding the soul to body or a extremely strong will to continue fighting, can also be left to DM's Discretion.<br />
<br />
==== Size and Type ====<br />
<br />
Size remains the same. Creatures Type changes to undead. No changes to BAB, Saves.<br />
<br />
==== Hit Dice ====<br />
<br />
Reroll HD, All HD become d12.<br />
<br />
==== Speed ====<br />
<br />
Speed remains same.<br />
<br />
==== Armor Class ====<br />
+2 natural armor bonus.<br />
<br />
==== Attack ====<br />
<br />
the War Wraith retains the ability to use manufactured weapons. If creature has Remained dead for a very long time it loses natural weapons that don't at least have bones (Example: tentacles).<br />
<br />
<br />
==== Special Attacks ====<br />
<br />
War Wraith retains all the special attacks of the base creature and gains Blood Reaper(Su): A creature struck by War Wraiths Weapon takes a extra 1d6 damage War Wraith is Healed by same amount as damage dealt from the 1d6.<br />
<br />
==== Special Qualities ====<br />
<br />
A War Wraith gains these special Qualities<br />
<br />
Unwavering Will(Ex): A War Wraith Adds its Wisdom Modifier to its AC If Modifier is Negative lower AC by that amount.<br />
<br />
Extra Sense(Ex): A War Wraith Gains Blind Sense out to 60 feet, If War Wraiths Base race already had Blind Sense it gains an extra 60 feet to it.<br />
<br />
Damage Reduction (Ex): A War Wraiths Will to Continue on Gives the Body Extraordinary ability to stay together, giving it DR 10/-. Despite their appearance, War Wraiths are corporeal.<br />
<br />
Turn Resistance (Ex): A War Wraith is treated as an undead with 4 more Hit Dice than it actually has for the purposes of turn, rebuke, command, or bolster attempts. <br />
<br />
Regeneration (Ex): A War Wraith Will continues to pull it's self back together, Regen 5/ Acid or Positive Energy.<br />
<br />
==== Abilities ====<br />
<br />
Undead have no constitution, +6 Str, +4 Dex, +4 Wis, -2 int, -4 Cha.<br />
<br />
==== Skills ====<br />
<br />
+ 2 to Move silently, Tumble, Balance, Jump, Spot, Listen. -2 hide<br />
<br />
==== Feats ====<br />
<br />
Gains Iron will, Combat Reflexes.<br />
<br />
==== Environment ====<br />
<br />
Battle Fields.<br />
<br />
==== Organization ====<br />
<br />
solitary.<br />
<br />
==== Challenge Rating ====<br />
<br />
+2<br />
<br />
==== Treasure ====<br />
Standard.<br />
<br />
==== Alignment ====<br />
Usually some type of neutral.<br />
<br />
==== Advancement ====<br />
<br />
By character Class.<br />
<br />
==== Level Adjustment ====<br />
<br />
+6<br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
{{3.5e Creature Templates Breadcrumb}}<br />
[[Category:DnD]]<br />
[[Category:3.5e]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Template]]<br />
[[Category:Undead Type]]<br />
[[Category:<!-- --> Subtype]]<br />
[[Category:LA?]]+6<br />
[[Category:<!--if the template changes alignment insert it here--> ]]</div>Name Violationhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:We_Need_Badgers_(4e_Power)&diff=525258Talk:We Need Badgers (4e Power)2011-07-06T22:35:33Z<p>Name Violation: Created page with "We don't need no stinkin badgers :P --~~~~"</p>
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<div>We don't need no stinkin badgers :P --[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 16:35, 6 July 2011 (MDT)</div>Name Violationhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Douie_Solitude_(3.5e_NPC)&diff=524736Talk:Douie Solitude (3.5e NPC)2011-07-01T08:29:17Z<p>Name Violation: /* Help */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Help==<br />
<s>Can not figure out this template. Need to wikify bad. Here are his stats at level 18 straight bard: 11 STR, 18 DEX, 13CON, 15INT, 11WIS, 22CHA. &nbsp;<small><span style="border: 1px solid blue; -moz-border-radius:10px">[[User:Hooper|'''<span style="background-color:White; color:FireBrick; -moz-border-radius-topleft:10px; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:10px"> Hooper </span>''']][[User talk:Hooper|<span style="background-color:red; color:blue; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:10px; -moz-border-radius-topleft:10px">&nbsp;&nbsp;talk&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|<span style="background-color:red; color:blue">&nbsp;&nbsp;contribs&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|<span style="background-color:red; color:blue; -moz-border-radius-bottomright:10px; -moz-border-radius-topright:10px">&nbsp;&nbsp;email&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]]</span></small> 18:57, 15 December 2008 (MST)</s><br />
: hows the character have evasion? its not a bard ability. just give'em a ring of evasion. alsoyou cant take epic skill focus untill after 20th level. this is only 18th --[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 17:46, 30 June 2011 (MDT)<br />
::Depends on which 3.5 books you're allowing in your campaign, and if you're sticking with strictly WotC releases. Though I should list the non-core items used. Good idea. {{User:Hooper/autosig2}} 18:38, 30 June 2011 (MDT)<br />
:::wait, what? Bards dont have evasion. Epic skill focus is an epic feat. pre req level 20. <br />
if its not following the rules, it should have an ability, item, or something that explains that.<br />
its not an outsider or something weird, its an elf bard 18. if something is not normal about that, it needs to be called out -[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 02:29, 1 July 2011 (MDT)</div>Name Violationhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Unarmed_Combo_Strike_(3.5e_Feat)&diff=524709Talk:Unarmed Combo Strike (3.5e Feat)2011-06-30T23:49:27Z<p>Name Violation: Created page with "this is really powerful. unless its explained better. there is an existing feat that give A single extra attack at your highest bonus, but all attacks take a -2 to hit. i think ..."</p>
<hr />
<div>this is really powerful. unless its explained better. there is an existing feat that give A single extra attack at your highest bonus, but all attacks take a -2 to hit.<br />
<br />
i think the best bet woulld be to word this like manyshot, but for melee, and add some more pre reqs, like dex 15, BAB 6 --[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 17:49, 30 June 2011 (MDT)</div>Name Violationhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Douie_Solitude_(3.5e_NPC)&diff=524708Talk:Douie Solitude (3.5e NPC)2011-06-30T23:46:44Z<p>Name Violation: </p>
<hr />
<div>==Help==<br />
<s>Can not figure out this template. Need to wikify bad. Here are his stats at level 18 straight bard: 11 STR, 18 DEX, 13CON, 15INT, 11WIS, 22CHA. &nbsp;<small><span style="border: 1px solid blue; -moz-border-radius:10px">[[User:Hooper|'''<span style="background-color:White; color:FireBrick; -moz-border-radius-topleft:10px; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:10px"> Hooper </span>''']][[User talk:Hooper|<span style="background-color:red; color:blue; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:10px; -moz-border-radius-topleft:10px">&nbsp;&nbsp;talk&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|<span style="background-color:red; color:blue">&nbsp;&nbsp;contribs&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|<span style="background-color:red; color:blue; -moz-border-radius-bottomright:10px; -moz-border-radius-topright:10px">&nbsp;&nbsp;email&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]]</span></small> 18:57, 15 December 2008 (MST)</s><br />
: hows the character have evasion? its not a bard ability. just give'em a ring of evasion. alsoyou cant take epic skill focus untill after 20th level. this is only 18th --[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 17:46, 30 June 2011 (MDT)</div>Name Violationhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Discussion:Vampire%27s_Undead_Traits.&diff=504102Discussion:Vampire's Undead Traits.2011-01-22T23:16:19Z<p>Name Violation: </p>
<hr />
<div>When a Vampire has "Undead Traits" listed under its special qualities, which undead traits does that include? Is it all of them? Or only some, because technically speaking it isn't a reanimated corpse like all other undead. --[[User:Jonse O&#39;Conol|Jonse O&#39;Conol]] 15:23, 22 January 2011 (MST)<br />
:all of them. vamps also have some special ones of their own (like sunlight vulnerability)[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 16:16, 22 January 2011 (MST)<br />
<!-- DO NOT REMOVE OR EDIT THIS LINE NOR ANYTHING BELOW IT<br />
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=== ~~~&nbsp;<small><small>~~~~~</small></small> ===<br />
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{{Forumfooter|Discussion}}<br />
__NOTOC__</div>Name Violationhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Pyroblade_(3.5e_Class)&diff=503595Talk:Pyroblade (3.5e Class)2011-01-20T11:51:55Z<p>Name Violation: /* Overall Power */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Intro ==<br />
This is my first attempt at making a class, so if it is horrible, I will in no way feel terribly offended if you tell me so. I am also a relatively new player to d&d, so I would be surprised, although very pleased, if it turned out to be a good class. <br />
<br />
I made this class somewhat in response to the fact that all of the fire-wielding classes I have seen in the d&d universe (pyrokineticist, pyromancer, fire bender) all require the character to be chaotic. The only one I have seen where the character can be something other than chaotic is the homebrew flameweaver, but that class is far from complete. I like to break such stereotypes, so here is a fire wielder who ''cannot'' be chaotic, and it makes sense for him. It makes sense that to control a chaotic element, you would need to be extremely controlled yourself. If a chaotic character wants to wield fire, they already have an option. So I am giving a fire wielding option to the lawful and neutral characters out there. And the idea of using a power to increase weapon damage is fun.<br />
<br />
== Help ==<br />
I always love feedback, even if you just say it is crap (but please say why). I also need more ideas for cool fire powers for the higher level powers. The pyroblade seems to be a fairly flexible class even with the small amount of powers I have already given him. But the more the merrier. Some powers may end up to be overpowered, and some may just be laughably week. That is why I am submitting this class. This is not so much me saying that it is a good class to play, but I just want to get it out there in order to get other people's opinions. And I need help with epic levels, because I have never played an epic character, and don't really know how they work.-- [[User:Dragonfire|Dragonfire]] (Class Creator) July 13 2010<br />
:for what its worth WoTc went out of its way to not make full manifesting, full BAB base classes. even getting up to 6th level powers normally gives no higher thasn 3/4 bab and this gets 9th level powers and a full bab. thats too much IMHO. it should probably have the same bab and powers as a psywarrior--[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 22:15, 13 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I see what you mean. I did try to use the psychic warrior as an example class. The BAB is only slightly higher, 17 instead of 15 at the top, and the maximum power points is slightly lower, 100 at lvl 20 instead of 127. I am not sure what real difference it would make to change to only 6th lvl spells instead of 9th lvl, because the 7th, 8th, and 9th lvl spells I have so far could easily be reduced in power slightly and made 6th, they are not extremely powerful. Another thing is I did reduce the amount of powers known, but I may need to do so more. -- [[User:Dragonfire|Dragonfire]] July 13 2010<br />
:::you need to use standard BAB progressions. there is no 17 bab at 20, its either 15, 20, or 10. if you want them to hit better give a class ability of a +# to hit (maybe even +1 per 4 levels while psionically focused or something)--[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 02:41, 14 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Done, thanks. -- [[User:Dragonfire|Dragonfire]] 4:02, 14 July 2010<br />
<br />
I have another question. How am I supposed to make a starting package and example NPC? -- [[User:Dragonfire|Dragonfire]] July 14 2010<br />
:look at another class that has one filled out and copy the code, then adjust what you need to and paste it on the class. the esample NPC is just that. make a sample character --[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 21:40, 14 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
If you're still looking for help with class features, I have some questions. First, "summon weapon" hides a weapon. Is that weapon held in some extrademinsonal space? If a guard is frisking you before you speak with the king, can he find your hidden longsword? That has huge power implications. Another question I have is "Flaming Weapon". It doesn't stack with the flaming enchantment, how about with flaming burst? Does it stack with other enchantments, like frost? --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 18:32, 17 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I guess I should have been more clear on that. The hidden weapon is not physically present on the body. So, yes, it would be in some other dimension. This gives him certain advantages similar to those of the soulknife, in that he can get weapons past security. But any security guarding a king would almost certainly know that a pyroblade can do this, and would be on guard from unarmed magical attacks anyway, so even with this ability it would be extremely hard to assassinate the king. If you are powerful enough to do that, then I am guessing that a security checkpoint is the least of your worries. But it would be useful for many other things as well (e.g. if you get captured, they can't take away your weapon). <br />
:Flaming weapon is supposed to stack with other enchantments, but I doubt it would stack with frost, due to the incompatibility of fire and ice.<br />
==Powers==<br />
<br />
You do not say what type of magic powers use. From the description it would be divine magic, or if you are going for something slightly diferent you can reword it a bit so that it is arcane magic. For game mechanics concerning how this class interects with items, other class abilities, spells, etc. it must use one of the core types of magic.<br />
:Isn't that only for spells, not powers? --[[User:Dragonfire|Dragonfire]] July 15, 2010<br />
::as far as i know. never hear of divine or arcane psionics --[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 17:39, 16 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Even though metagame I don't like to think of the pyroblade as a psionic class, in game for all intents and purposes, I think it best to treat it as one. -- [[User:Dragonfire|Dragonfire]] 12:48, July 17, 2010<br />
<br />
==Overall Power==<br />
So how do you all think this classes power distribution is? I have tried to be careful not to over power him, but I am not a good judge of that. I have put him through a couple sample encounters, and he seems to do all right. But I have not been able to play test him or try a dungeon crawl, both of which would be necessary to get a completely accurate assessment. I am also only good at/had major experience playing a rogue, so the pyroblade absolutely destroying a barbarian in my 1v1 match may be simply my incompetence and not any sign that he is op. Enough of me rambling, what do you think? --[[User:Dragonfire|Dragonfire]] January 20, 2011<br />
<br />
:honestly... it looks to be really on the weak side. Its a psy-war with energy resist instead of feats, less powers to choose from, and not much in the way of making up for the loss (a free bastard sword prof and some skills? That's it?). The class seems rather cornered into its role of trying to melee (I guess) while not being able to pull it off (trying to play this as a straight caster type is even worse). What are they supposed to do? They can barely melee, have low hp, low ac, and only get 6th level powers. what are they good at? It manages to do everything badly. It would take an extremely optimized build just to scrape by.<br />
<br />
:also, you should use normal save numbers (good starts at 2, ends at 12, bad starts at 0 ends at 6). The existing saves don't conform to standards. That needs to be fixed.<br />
<br />
:this class is a trap. the first time you fight anything immune to fire shuts down your whole gameplan. Maybe an ability to deal half damage to things immune to fire could help.<br />
<br />
:I suggest vastly expanding the learnable powers, giving better class abilities (energy resist and a burst weapon is really just saving a few gp, it sounds cool, but its crap), giving at least a d8 hd, and adding more armor profs. Drop the bastard prof. This is just an underpowered psywar [[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 04:51, 20 January 2011 (MST)</div>Name Violationhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Dancing_Samurai_(3.5e_Optimized_Character_Build)&diff=488888Talk:Dancing Samurai (3.5e Optimized Character Build)2010-09-08T19:34:15Z<p>Name Violation: /* so yeah */</p>
<hr />
<div>whats darksong knight?--[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 19:39, 11 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== so yeah ==<br />
<br />
i dont know why you call this a samurai. it appears to be a cool build but as the only thing "samurai" about it is that you use a katana. A katana is just a masterwork bastard sword and it doesn't fit with your main class's fluff; i say drop the the whole samurai shtik. it creates more problems than its worth. as fun as powerbuilds are its still called R-O-L-E playing not R-O-L-Lplaying and there's no rules benifit to the whole katana/samurai thing.<br />
:The optimized builds ate about roll-playing, not necessarily role playing. the point is to make the most broken thing imaginable--[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 13:34, 8 September 2010 (MDT)</div>Name Violationhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=SRD_Talk:Adept&diff=488773SRD Talk:Adept2010-09-07T00:12:05Z<p>Name Violation: </p>
<hr />
<div>== spells ==<br />
<br />
How many spells do they get to choose? Do they get all of the ones listed, as long as they meditate an hour for them? ~~dan<br />
:As cleric, so they prepare spells ahead of time from the list of spells presented--[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 18:12, 6 September 2010 (MDT)</div>Name Violationhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=4e_Diseases&diff=4887714e Diseases2010-09-07T00:10:04Z<p>Name Violation: Undo revision crap206.206.62.58 (talk)</p>
<hr />
<div>===Grey Lotus Parasite===<br />
<br />
Contracted by inhaling the micro-organisms inside the grey lotus flower. <br />
<br />
'''Attack''': Level of character+3 Vs. Fortitude<br />
'''Endurance''': ''improve'' character level +11; ''maintain'' Character level +7; ''worsen'' character level +6 or lower <br />
<br />
<br />
''Cured'' <-- '''initial effect''': -3 to attack roles,damage= to level ongoing (roll save at beginning of turn, if successful, target avoids damage for that turn) <----> target blinded, damage = to lever times 1.5 ongoing (roll save at beginning of turn, if successful, target avoids damage for that turn) --> target is blinded, dazed, and takes damage = to lever times 1.5 ongoing (roll save at beginning of turn, if successful, target avoids damage for that turn)<br />
<br />
<br />
===Dark Hylian Necrotic Disease===<br />
<br />
Contracted by a Dark Hylian stabbing you in the chest (Which requires a critical hit) with his ''Dark Hylian Fury'' Daily Power.<br />
<br />
'''Attack''': 15 Vs. Fortitude<br />
<br />
'''Endurance''': ''Improved'' character condition: 20 or more; ''maintain'' character condition: 15; ''worsen'' character condition: 10 or less.<br />
<br />
Cured by a ''cure disease'' spell. DC to cure is: 20<br />
<br />
This disease gives you the appearance of a Dark Hylian. You also gain his ''Dark Aura''. This only works on Hylians and Spike Hylians.</div>Name Violationhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Rock_Worm_(3.5e_Creature)&diff=488759Rock Worm (3.5e Creature)2010-09-06T21:54:02Z<p>Name Violation: Undo spam and childish butt jokes 206.206.62.58 (talk)</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Featured Article}}<br />
{{3.5e Creature<br />
|creature=Rock Worm<br />
|size=[[SRD:Huge Size|Huge]] |type=[[SRD:Magical Beast Type|Magical Beast]] ([[SRD:Earth Subtype|Earth]])<br />
|hd=17d10+68 |hp=161<br />
|init=+3<br />
|speed=30 ft. (6 squares), burrow 15 ft. (3 squares)<br />
|ac=21 (&minus;2 Size, &minus;1 Dex, +14 natural) |touch=7 |flat=17<br />
|bab=+17 |grapple=+33<br />
|at=Bite +23 (2d8+12)<br />
|full_at=Bite +23 (2d8+12) or Bite +13 (2d8+22, power attack)<br />
|space=15 ft. |reach=10 ft.<br />
|sa=[[#Dust|Dust]], [[#Earthquake|earthquake]], [[SRD:Improved Grab|improved grab]], [[SRD:Powerful Charge|powerful charge]], [[#Burrowing Charge|burrowing charge]], [[SRD:Swallow Whole|swallow whole]], [[#Tremor|tremor]]<br />
|sq=Blind, [[SRD:Damage Reduction|Damage reduction]] 10/-, [[SRD:Tremorsense|Tremorsense]] (60 ft.)<br />
|fort=+15 |ref=+11 |will=+7<br />
|str=26 |dex=8 |con=19 |int=2 |wis=8 |cha=10<br />
|skills=[[SRD:Climb Skill|Climb]] +10, [[SRD:Hide Skill|Hide]] +2, [[SRD:Move Silently Skill|Move Silently]] +7<br />
|feats= [[SRD:Awesome Blow|Awesome Blow]], [[SRD:Blind-Fight|Blind-Fight]], [[SRD:Improved Bull Rush|Improved Bull Rush]], [[SRD:Improved Initiative|Improved Initiative]], [[SRD:Iron Will|Iron Will]], [[SRD:Power Attack|Power Attack]]<br />
|env=Underground, deserts, rocky plains, [[SRD:Elemental Plane of Earth|Elemental Plane of Earth]]<br />
|org=Solitary<br />
|cr=11<br />
|treas=Gems only<br />
|align=[[SRD:Neutral|Usually Neutral]]<br />
|adv=18-30 [[SRD:Hit Dice|HD]] ([[SRD:Huge Size|Huge]]), 31-60 [[SRD:Hit Dice|HD]] ([[SRD:Gargantuan Size|Gargantuan]])<br />
|la=—<br />
}}<br />
[[Image:Rock Worm by Hall.jpg|thumb|left|600px|A gargantuan rock worm bursting out of the ground.]]<br />
<br />
''You feel the ground tremble as suddenly, beneath you, you see a fissure in the earth where none was a second before. You frantically try to move out of the way as a large rocky protrusion lunges straight up out of the ground under you. With cobblestones, rocks, clots of dirt, and shrubs flying in all directions, it flings you into the air. For what seems like a minute to you everything stops. Then, only a matter of seconds later, it stretches upward, suspended in the air by its submerged body, and catches you in its mouth, grinding its jaws over your armor. Your companion, a matter of feet behind you, puts his shield in front of his face, shielding himself from the flying cobblestones and debris, and squares his stance. After the barrage he charges forward.''<br />
<br />
Rock worms are native of the [[SRD:Elemental Plane of Earth|Elemental Plane of Earth]], though some have also been spotted on the [[SRD:Material Plane|Material Plane]], likely because of a stray [[SRD:Gate|gate]] or the intervention of a conjurer. They look like regular earthworms although they are exorbitantly larger and have an extremely tough hide composed from rock and calloused flesh, which covers them entirely.<br />
<br />
While not necessarily carnivorous predators, rock worms will hunt and consume other living beings on occasion. This is because rock worms need to sustain their bodies by eating carbon-based organisms as a supplement to what they ingest from burrowing. They can cause many problems when near civilization due to their tendency to burrow, which can destroy foundations, supports, mines, and even pipe-systems. When encountered (and subsequently eradicated), they tend to cause a great deal of damage to the natural and built environments. Sinkholes are highly characteristic of a rock worm infestation.<br />
<br />
Rock worms can burrow through stone (stone is considered [[Terrain#Terrain and Obstacles|difficult terrain]]), but they are normally found in areas consisting of softer soils such as desert, beach sands, or grassland dirt. When moving through such hard materials it leaves behind a usable tunnel about 5 feet in diameter.<br />
<br />
A rock worm is about 40 feet long, 5 feet in diameter, and weighs about 50 tons.<br />
<br />
=== Combat ===<br />
<br />
Rock worms normally stay underground. When they feel creatures on the ground above them or when they feel creatures using the tunnels they have left behind, the creature's fight-or-flight mechanism takes over. Rock worms start combat by creating an ''[[SRD:Earthquake|earthquake]]'', making an intense but highly localized tremor rip the ground.<br />
<br />
A rock worm will then typically make a [[SRD:Charge|charging]] [[SRD:Power Attack|power attack]]. If overwhelmed it might perform an [[SRD:Awesome Blow|awesome blow]] in order to distance itself from enemies or it may writhe around, shifting the earth under aggressors' feet with a [[Rock Worm (3.5e Creature)#Tremor|tremor]]. If it feels outnumbered it may burrow underground in order to fight on its own terms. Once there, if the worm's prey drive overrides its fear of death, it will repeat the tactics detailed above.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Burrowing [[SRD:Charge|Charge]]}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' When a rock worm is burrowing and directly below another land-bound creature it can perform a [[SRD:Charge|charge]] against the creature, which is considered [[SRD:Flat-Footed|flat-footed]] for the attack. Damage is applied as normal for a charge. All other creatures with in a 10 foot radius must make a [[SRD:Saving Throw|Fortitude save]] of 26 (save is [[SRD:Strength|Strength]] based) or take 2d6 bludgeoning damage and be knocked back 10 feet away from the exit hole by flying rock and debris. A successful Fortitude save halves the damage and negates the knock back.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Blind}}:''' Rock worms have no eyes and are naturally blind. They incur all normal penalties for being [[SRD:Blinded|blind]], which can never be negated. The penalties, however, only apply against creatures the rock worm cannot pinpoint with its tremorsense.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:[[SRD:Damage Reduction|Damage Reduction]]}}:''' A rock worm has an extremely tough hide that gives the creature [[SRD:Damage Reduction|damage reduction]] 10/-.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Dust}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' The powerful muscles of a rock worm vibrate the ground as it moves. The rock worm and all creatures within the surrounding 10 feet of the rock worm have a 20% concealment from the debris and soot it kicks up until the rock worm's next turn after surfacing. <br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:[[SRD:Earthquake|Earthquake]]}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' A rock worm that is completely underground can use ''[[SRD:Earthquake|earthquake]]'', as per the spell, three times a day with a 10 round recharge time between each use. Rock worms are immune to the effects of earthquakes, natural or otherwise.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:[[SRD:Improved Grab|Improved Grab]]}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' To use this ability, a rock worm must hit with its bite attack. It can then attempt to start a [[SRD:Grapple|grapple]] as a [[SRD:Free Actions|free action]] without provoking an [[SRD:Attacks of Opportunity|attack of opportunity]]. If it wins the [[SRD:Grapple|grapple check]], it establishes a hold and can attempt to swallow the foe the following [[SRD:Round|round]].<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:[[SRD:Powerful Charge|Powerful Charge]]}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' A rock worm deals an extra 3d6 damage on a [[SRD:Charge|charge]].<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:[[SRD:Swallow Whole|Swallow Whole]]}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' When a rock worm begins its turn with a [[SRD:Grapple|grappled]] opponent in its mouth, it can swallow that opponent with a successful [[SRD:Grapple|grapple check]]. Once inside, the opponent takes 2d8+12 points of points of crushing damage plus 8 points of acid damage per [[SRD:Round|round]] from the rock worm's gizzard. A swallowed creature can cut its way out by using a [[SRD:Light Weapon|light]] slashing or piercing weapon to deal 25 points of damage to the gizzard ([[SRD:AC|AC]] 17). Once the creature exits, muscular action closes the hole; another swallowed opponent must cut its own way out. A Huge rock worm's interior can hold 2 Large, 4 Medium, 8 Small, 32 Tiny, 128 Diminutive, or 512 Fine or smaller opponents.<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:Tremor}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' As a full-round action, a rock worm that is at least partially underground can cause tremors by writhing about. This forces all creatures standing on the ground within a 60 foot radius around it to make a DC 26 [[SRD:Balance Skill|balance]] check (DC is [[SRD:Strength|Strength]] based) or fall [[SRD:Prone|prone]].<br />
<br />
'''{{#anc:[[SRD:Tremorsense|Tremorsense]]}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' Rock worms can sense the presence and movement of anything touching the ground within a 60 foot radius around it when the worm is at least partially underground.<br />
<br />
<br />
---- <br />
{{3.5e Creatures CR 11 Breadcrumb}}<br />
[[Category:DnD]]<br />
[[Category:3.5e]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Creature]]<br />
[[Category:CR11]]<br />
[[Category:Magical Beast Type]]<br />
[[Category:Earth Subtype]]<br />
[[Category:Large Size]]<br />
[[Category:Neutral (Good-Evil) Alignment]]<br />
[[Category:Neutral (Law-Chaos) Alignment]]</div>Name Violationhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=MSRD_Talk:Improvised_Weapons&diff=488690MSRD Talk:Improvised Weapons2010-09-05T18:29:53Z<p>Name Violation: /* Nail Gun Damage */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Nail Gun Damage ==<br />
<br />
I know DND and d20m aren't supposed to be compared, but as a monk, I could punch someone and it would do MORE damage then a nail gun. {{unsigned|T G Geko|2008-01-10 11:58}}<br />
<br />
: Yup, and a monk your unarmed strike would also do more damage than a [[SRD:Dagger|dagger]], and a [[SRD:Light Hammer|light hammer]], and a [[SRD:Kukri|kukri]], and a [[SRD:Light Pick|light pick]], and etc... Are you suggesting that a nail gun doesn't do enough damage? —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 12:21, 10 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::I meant a first level monk. yea, and an office chair does more damage then a drill. Come on, was d20 m designed by robots? --[[User:T G Geko|T G Geko]] 20:40, 12 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::A first level monk is an unfair example, since his fists do the damage of most one-handed weapons. If anything I'd say a nail gun does too much damage. I'd imaging being gutted with a 6-inch to 12-inch-long inch-wide blade doing more damage than being pierced by nail gun (though there is a good amount of power in a nail gun). As for the office chair vs drill, I supposed it'd depend on the power of the drill, the ones designed for home use versus the ones designed for professional use. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 14:48, 14 January 2008 (MST)<br />
so ah what would be the dammage of a caravan or carrage cus my leval 1 character can easily throw one of those and its got to do more then anything else hes got<br />
:how can your 1st level character throw those? anyway, those are colassal, so 2d8--[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 10:48, 2 September 2010 (MDT)<br />
lol 2d8 for a bloody caravan/carrage thats epicly lame and cus im a centaur i have a 10500 pound drag and like just over 2000 pounds of lift over head anyway thanks<br />
::yeah, you're better off dirving a car into someone than trying to fling it[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 12:29, 5 September 2010 (MDT)</div>Name Violationhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Beam_Sabre_(3.5e_Equipment)&diff=488429Talk:Beam Sabre (3.5e Equipment)2010-09-02T21:50:11Z<p>Name Violation: </p>
<hr />
<div>== Comment ==<br />
<br />
Very nice way of making a lightsaber-like object without having it be overpowered or overpriced. {{Unsigned|Monk Boy 23|15:08, 30 December 2008 (MST)}}<br />
<br />
:Heh, I saw the same concept in the movie, "The Gamers: Dorkness Rising". In the movie it was called a Psyonic Spirit Blade. [[User:Narrssuras Stalking Leopard|Omen]] 16:42, 15 June 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::Keeps the Lucas Arts well-staffed legal department away! &nbsp;<small><span style="border: 1px solid black; -moz-border-radius:10px">[[User:Hooper|'''<span style="background-color:White; color:Black; -moz-border-radius-topleft:10px; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:10px"> Hooper </span>''']][[User talk:Hooper|<span style="background-color:Black; color:white; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:10px; -moz-border-radius-topleft:10px">&nbsp;&nbsp;talk&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|<span style="background-color:black; color:white">&nbsp;&nbsp;contribs&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|<span style="background-color:black; color:white; -moz-border-radius-bottomright:10px; -moz-border-radius-topright:10px">&nbsp;&nbsp;email&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]]</span></small> 14:48, 2 September 2010 (MDT)<br />
<br />
==at will vs constant==<br />
whats the difference?--[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 15:50, 2 September 2010 (MDT)</div>Name Violationhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=MSRD_Talk:Improvised_Weapons&diff=488406MSRD Talk:Improvised Weapons2010-09-02T16:48:37Z<p>Name Violation: /* Nail Gun Damage */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Nail Gun Damage ==<br />
<br />
I know DND and d20m aren't supposed to be compared, but as a monk, I could punch someone and it would do MORE damage then a nail gun. {{unsigned|T G Geko|2008-01-10 11:58}}<br />
<br />
: Yup, and a monk your unarmed strike would also do more damage than a [[SRD:Dagger|dagger]], and a [[SRD:Light Hammer|light hammer]], and a [[SRD:Kukri|kukri]], and a [[SRD:Light Pick|light pick]], and etc... Are you suggesting that a nail gun doesn't do enough damage? —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 12:21, 10 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::I meant a first level monk. yea, and an office chair does more damage then a drill. Come on, was d20 m designed by robots? --[[User:T G Geko|T G Geko]] 20:40, 12 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::A first level monk is an unfair example, since his fists do the damage of most one-handed weapons. If anything I'd say a nail gun does too much damage. I'd imaging being gutted with a 6-inch to 12-inch-long inch-wide blade doing more damage than being pierced by nail gun (though there is a good amount of power in a nail gun). As for the office chair vs drill, I supposed it'd depend on the power of the drill, the ones designed for home use versus the ones designed for professional use. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 14:48, 14 January 2008 (MST)<br />
so ah what would be the dammage of a caravan or carrage cus my leval 1 character can easily throw one of those and its got to do more then anything else hes got<br />
:how can your 1st level character throw those? anyway, those are colassal, so 2d8--[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 10:48, 2 September 2010 (MDT)</div>Name Violationhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Flame_From_Beyond_(3.5e_Spell)&diff=488288Flame From Beyond (3.5e Spell)2010-09-01T01:20:02Z<p>Name Violation: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{author<br />
|author_name=Extrigan<br />
|date_created=Jan 30th<br />
|status=mostly complete<br />
}}<br />
<br />
{{Spell<br />
| name=Flame from Beyond<br />
| school=[[SRD:Necromancy School|Necromancy]] <br />
| desc=[[SRD:Force Effect|Force]], [[SRD:Fire Effect|Fire]]<br />
| lvl= [[SRD:Cleric Spell List|Clr]] 1, [[SRD:Sorcerer/Wizard Spell List|Sor/Wiz]] 2<br />
|comp= M, V<br />
| casttime=1 [[SRD:Standard Actions|standard action]]<br />
|range= Self<br />
| dur=1 hour/level (D), can be stopped by a mere command word chosen by the caster <br />
|tsea= 30ft illumination<br />
|subj= Caster<br />
| save=[[SRD:Saving Throw|Will]] negates (harmless)<br />
|sr= No<br />
}}<br />
"with a few incantations and short, ambidextrous movements, Azaer erupts into a ghastly pale blue flame- only to be smirking behind the very essence of dark magic. As he cut into his foes desiccating one after the other, an intimidated frost giant swung his sword..."<br />
Flames surround the caster giving him the same benefits of mage armor. The caster gains a AC bonus of +4 and the flames illuminate like a torch for a radius of 30ft. The subject gains damage reduction 10/magic, Adamantine against ranged weapons. (This spell doesn’t grant you the ability to damage creatures with similar damage reduction.) Once the spell has prevented a total of 10 points of damage per [[SRD:Caster Level|caster level]] (maximum 50 points), it is discharged. While active the caster is valnerable to frost attacks taking triple the damage. The flames either come in the colors: blue, sick green, black or orange. <br />
<br />
<br />
''Material Component:'' 1 piece of Candle, a pinch of Sulphur.<br />
<br />
----<br />
{{3.5e <!--class name or domain name (e.g. "Cleric") Spells Breadcrumb}}<br/><br />
{{3.5e <!--class name or domain name (e.g. "Sorcerer/Wizard") Spells Breadcrumb}}<!--repeat for every class which can cast this spell--><br />
{{SRD Spell Footer}}<br />
[[Category:Cleric 1|{{BASEPAGENAME}}]]<br />
[[Category:Sorcerer/Wizard 2|{{BASEPAGENAME}}]]<br />
[[Category:Necromancy School|{{BASEPAGENAME}}]]<br />
[[Category:Evil Effect|{{BASEPAGENAME}}]]<br />
[[Category:Fire Effect|{{BASEPAGENAME}}]]<br />
[[Category:Death Domain|{{BASEPAGENAME}}]]</div>Name Violationhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Dark_Seekers_(3.5e_Template)&diff=488279Dark Seekers (3.5e Template)2010-08-31T18:00:45Z<p>Name Violation: </p>
<hr />
<div>=Dark Seeker=<br />
{{quote|[[3e Summary::It is said that the vampyre lords of Nial formed the first dark seekers from heroes who had fallen in battle with that dark realm.]] And you know what? After last night, I believe it.|orig=Dain, elf bard, after narrowly escaping from dark seekers.}}<br />
<br />
===Sample Dark Seeker===<br />
====Dark Seeker, 8th level elf fighter====<br />
<b>Medium Undead (augmented humanoid)</b><br />
<b>HD:</b> 8d12 +3 (55 hp)<br />
<b>Init:</b> +11<br />
<b>Speed:</b> 50 ft<br />
<b>AC:</b> 28 (+7 dex, +5 armor, +4 dark blessing, +2 natural)<br />
<b>BAB/Grapple:</b> +8/+11<br />
<b>Attack:</b> +2 longsword +14 melee (1d8 +7 18-20) or mwk dagger +12 melee (1d4 +3 + poison 1d6 str primary and secondary, fort dc 15), or mwk composite longbow (+3 str bonus) +16 ranged (1d8 +3 /x3)<br />
<b>Space/Reach:</b> 5ft/5ft<br />
<b>Special Attacks:</b> Energy drain, spell-like abilities<br />
<b>Special Qualities:</b> Detect magic, resistance to electricity and cold 10, resistance to fire 5, SR 13, turn resistance +2, DR 10/magic, fast healing 5, weakness'.<br />
<b>Saves:</b> Fort +10, Ref +15, Will +6.<br />
<b>Abilities:</b> strength 16, dexterity 24, constitution -, intelligence 14, wisdom 10, charisma 18.<br />
<b>Skills:</b> move silently +30, hide +28, listen +23, spot +23, search +21, bluff +15, sense motive +9.<br />
<b>Feats:</b> dodge, mobility, spring attack, lightning reflexes, combat reflexes, improved initiative, toughness, weapon focus (longsword), weapon specialization (longsword), stealthy, quickdraw, alertness, combat expertise, whirlwind attack.<br />
<b>Environment:</b> Nial<br />
<b>Organization:</b> solitary, pair, or trio.<br />
<b>CR:</b> 10<br />
<b>Treasure:</b> standard<br />
<b>Alignment:</b> usually neutral evil<br />
<b>Advancement:</b> by character class<br />
<b>LA:</b> +5<br />
<br />
http://i337.photobucket.com/albums/n377/caruff/Dark_Seeker.jpg<br />
<br />
== Creating a Dark Seeker ==<br />
"Dark Seeker" is an acquired template that can be added to any humanoid, giant, or monstrous humanoid of at least 3 HD.<br />
<br />
=== Size and Type ===<br />
The creature’s type changes to undead (augmented humanoid or monstrous humanoid). Do not recalculate base attack bonus, saves, or skill points. Size is unchanged. <br />
<br />
=== Hit Dice ===<br />
Change all HD to d12's and re-roll hit points.<br />
<br />
=== Speed ===<br />
Add 10 ft. to the dark seeker's speed.<br />
<br />
=== Armor Class ===<br />
The dark seeker gains +2 natural armor. In addition, see dark blessing.<br />
<br />
=== Attack ===<br />
attack is unchanged.<br />
<br />
=== Special Attacks ===<br />
*<i>Energy Drain (su):</i> a dark seeker can make a melee touch attack that deals 1d4 constitution damage. DC save 10 + dark seekers charisma modifier.<br />
*Spell-like abilities: at will: [[SRD:Haste|Haste]], [[Invisibility (SRD Spell)|Invisibility]],[[Fear (SRD Spell)|Fear]], [[Darkness (SRD Spell)|Darkness]], [[Tongues (SRD Spell)|Tongues]]. 3/day: [[Charm Person (SRD Spell)|Charm Person]], [[Fog Cloud (SRD Spell)|Fog Cloud]]. save dcs are charisma based. caster level equal to HD.<br />
<br />
=== Special Qualities ===<br />
*+2 turn resistance.<br />
*Dark blessing (su): a dark seeker can add its charisma bonus to its AC and saving throws.<br />
*Resistance to electricity and cold 10, and fire 5.<br />
*DR 10/magic.<br />
*SR 13.<br />
*Fast healing 5.<br />
*Detect Magic (su): a dark seeker constantly has a [[Detect Magic (SRD Spell)|Detect Magic]] effect around itself.<br />
*Weakness's: a dark seeker cannot use any spell-like abilities, it's detect magic ability, energy drain, fast healing, or dark blessing ability if exposed to direct sunlight, and suffers a -4 penalty to strength and dexterity. a dark seeker cannot cross running water (unless on a ship), and if submerged in running water, loses 1/3 of its hp each round (as a vampire).<br />
<br />
=== Abilities ===<br />
+2 strength, +6 dexterity, constitution -, +2 intelligence, +2 wisdom, +4 charisma.<br />
<br />
=== Skills ===<br />
+8 bonus to move silently, hide, search, spot, listen, bluff and sense motive checks.<br />
<br />
=== Feats ===<br />
A dark seeker gains [[Dodge]], [[Mobility (SRD Feat)|Mobility]], [[Spring Attack (SRD Feat)|Spring Attack]], [[Lightning Reflexes (SRD Feat)|Lightning Reflexes]], [[Improved Initiative (SRD Feat)|Improved Initiative]], and [[Combat Reflexes (SRD Feat)|Combat Reflexes]] as bonus feats.<br />
<br />
=== Environment ===<br />
Nial.<br />
<br />
=== Organization ===<br />
Dark Seekers are generally found only singly, in pairs, or in trios, but sometimes the vampyre lords will gather a great number together.<br />
<br />
=== Challenge Rating ===<br />
as base creature +2<br />
<br />
=== Treasure ===<br />
Standard. <br />
<br />
=== Alignment ===<br />
any non-good.<br />
<br />
=== Advancement ===<br />
by character class.<br />
<br />
=== Level Adjustment ===<br />
+5<br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
{{3.5e Creature Templates Breadcrumb}}<br/><br />
Back to [[Main Page]] &rarr; [[Dungeons and Dragons]] &rarr; [[DnD Campaign Settings|Campaign Settings]] &rarr; [[Rytha and Bas'Mera, The Silver Lands (DnD Campaign Setting)|Rytha and Bas'Mera, The Silver Lands]]<br />
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[[Category:3.5e]]<br />
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[[Category:LA5]]</div>Name Violationhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Flame_From_Beyond_(3.5e_Spell)&diff=488106Talk:Flame From Beyond (3.5e Spell)2010-08-30T21:31:16Z<p>Name Violation: Created page with "why does this have the death and fire domain tags when its not part of either of those domains? also this does a lot for a 1st or 2nd level spell. this is just trying to do too m..."</p>
<hr />
<div>why does this have the death and fire domain tags when its not part of either of those domains? also this does a lot for a 1st or 2nd level spell. this is just trying to do too much with 1 low level spell--[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 15:31, 30 August 2010 (MDT)</div>Name Violationhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Template:Archives&diff=486165Template:Archives2010-08-13T21:23:04Z<p>Name Violation: killing spam</p>
<hr />
<div><includeonly>{| class="infobox" style="width: {{{width|315px}}};"<br />
|-<br />
! style="text-align: center;" | [[Image:Vista-file-manager.png|50px|Archive]]<br/>[[Archive|Archives]]<br />
----<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
{{ #foreach: label$n$ |<nowiki/><br />
* [[{{FULLPAGENAME}}/Archive $n$|{{{label$n$}}}]]}}<br />
|}</includeonly><noinclude><br />
== How to use this template ==<br />
<br />
Copy and paste the following, and add it to the top of the page to be archived.<br />
<br />
<nowiki>{{Archives<br />
|label1=<br />
}}</nowiki><br />
<br />
Give your archive a label like "Discussions 1&ndash;30" or "2007 Jan 31st through 2007 March 23rd" like so:<br />
<br />
<nowiki>{{Archives<br />
|label1=Discussions 1&ndash;30<br />
}}</nowiki><br />
<br />
{{Archives<br />
|label1=Discussions 1&ndash;30<br />
}}<br />
<br />
This will give the following archive box, and from there you just follow the link to the new archive page and fill it in.<br />
<br />
If you need to add another archive page just add another label (be sure to increment the index) and repeat the process like so:<br />
<br />
<nowiki>{{Archives<br />
|label1=Discussions 1&ndash;30<br />
|label2=Discussions 31&ndash;60<br />
}}</nowiki><br />
<br />
{{Archives<br />
|label1=Discussions 1&ndash;30<br />
|label2=Discussions 31&ndash;60<br />
}}<br />
<br />
Which gives:</noinclude></div>Name Violationhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=SRD_Talk:Troll&diff=485893SRD Talk:Troll2010-08-11T16:53:02Z<p>Name Violation: </p>
<hr />
<div>I'm working on a sub-race of Troll that has [[Fast Healing]] instead of [[Regeneration]]. I'd like this variant to have lower Challenge Rating and Level Adjustment. Would this change be enough? If so, how much would it lower them? -- [[User:SAINT23THOMAS|saint23thomas]] -- 15:47, 11 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
:check mm4 for the trolls in there. they have 1 like that IIRC--[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 16:53, 11 August 2010 (UTC)</div>Name Violationhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Template:3.5e_Trait&diff=485822Template:3.5e Trait2010-08-11T04:19:08Z<p>Name Violation: Undo revision 485821 by Name Violation (talk)</p>
<hr />
<div><includeonly>__NOTOC__<dplc><br />
|{{Trait Description<br />
|{{{name|Fill in the name parameter}}}<br />
|{{{prereqs|Fill in prerequisites for this trait}}}<br />
|{{{summary|This trait needs a summary}}}<br />
|{{{nbof|-}}} }}</dplc><br />
==== {{{name|Shined-Eyes}}} {{ #if: {{{types|}}}<br />
|[{{{types|}}}]<br />
|<br />
}} ====<br />
<div>[[3e Summary::{{{summary|Your eyes have been altered by a shine doctor giving your eyes an ability to see what bumps in the night, (dark Vision but careful these eyes don't come without a price}}}]]</div><br />
{{ #if: {{{prereqs|}}}<br />
|<div>'''Prerequisite:''' {{{prereqs|Pay 500 gold to a Shine Doctor}}}</div><br />
|<br />
}}<br />
<div>'''Benefit:''' {{{benefit|Dark Vision 30 feet}}}</div><br />
<div>'''Drawback:''' {{{drawback|you may not see dark vision with sunglasses or dark goggles on but you may not look in the light with out them.}}}</div><br />
<br />
|<div>'''Roleplaying Ideas:''' {{{roleplay|this character would be great as a Riddic type character, or some who does good in the dark. having shined eyes is a human who wants dark vision without giving up on of his feats}}}</div><br />
|</div>Name Violationhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Template:3.5e_Trait&diff=485821Template:3.5e Trait2010-08-11T04:18:39Z<p>Name Violation: </p>
<hr />
<div><includeonly>__NOTOC__<dplc><br />
|{{Trait Description<br />
|{{{name|Fill in the name parameter}}}<br />
|{{{prereqs|Fill in prerequisites for this trait}}}<br />
|{{{summary|This trait needs a summary}}}<br />
|{{{nbof|-}}} }}</dplc><br />
==== {{{name|Fill in the name parameter}}} {{ #if: {{{types|}}}<br />
|[{{{types|}}}]<br />
|<br />
}} ====<br />
<div>[[3e Summary::{{{summary|This trait needs a summary}}}]]</div><br />
{{ #if: {{{prereqs|}}}<br />
|<div>'''Prerequisite:''' {{{prereqs|}}}</div><br />
|<br />
}}<br />
<div>'''Benefit:''' {{{benefit|Fill in the benefits this trait grants}}}</div><br />
<div>'''Drawback:''' {{{drawback|Fill in the drawbacks this trait grants}}}</div><br />
{{ #if: {{{normal|}}}<br />
|<div>'''Normal:''' {{{normal|}}}</div><br />
|<br />
}}{{ #if: {{{special|}}}<br />
|<div>'''Special:''' {{{special|}}}</div><br />
|<br />
}}{{ #if: {{{roleplay|}}}<br />
|<div>'''Roleplaying Ideas:''' {{{roleplay|}}}</div><br />
|<br />
}}<br />
[[Category:Templated Trait]]<br />
</includeonly><noinclude>{{3.5e Trait<br />
|name=Green<br />
|summary=You are one of the Green.<br />
|prereqs=[[SRD:Constitution|Con]] 15<br />
|benefit=You gain a +3 bonus to attack rolls against Purple characters.<br />
|drawback=You must attack any Purple(s) you encounter.<br />
|special=You can't have the Purple Trait.<br />
}}<br>{{3.5e Trait<br />
|name=Purple<br />
|summary=You are one of the Purple.<br />
|prereqs=[[SRD:Constitution|Con]] 15<br />
|benefit=You gain a +3 bonus to attack rolls against Green characters.<br />
|drawback=You must attack any Green(s) you encounter.<br />
|special=You can't have the Green Trait.<br />
}}</noinclude></div>Name Violationhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Arcane_Tank,_Variant_(3.5e_Optimized_Character_Build)&diff=485787Talk:Arcane Tank, Variant (3.5e Optimized Character Build)2010-08-10T17:43:02Z<p>Name Violation: </p>
<hr />
<div>Shield spell grants shield bonus to AC, so it's not stackable with tower shield.<br />
How You get 30 AC from this build with DEX 8?<br />
Abjurant Champion (Complete Mage I think) works great as tank - with 5 levels of this PC You get +9 from mage armor and +8 from shield spell (without any spell failure). Add something like blink spell, mirror images and items giving natural or/and deflection AC bonus and your mage will be really hard to hit.<br />
:actually abjurant champion doesnt do anything for mage armor. its a Conjuration, not abjuuration. they mention it in the fluff, but nothing in the class abilities support it--[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 17:43, 10 August 2010 (UTC)</div>Name Violationhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Discussion:Most_Unbalanced_Class&diff=484143Discussion:Most Unbalanced Class2010-08-01T15:31:44Z<p>Name Violation: /* Try This */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Archives<br />
|label1=October 19th 2008 - March 8th, 2010<br />
}}<br />
__NOTOC__<br />
== Which base class do you think is most unbalanced? == <br />
I believe that the Monk is too powerful. Maybe if the unarmed damage was lessened... That would also increase the usefulness of monk weapons. <br />
A level 1 Monk with 14 Dex and 14 Wis, and Mage Armor and Shield cast on him=22 AC. Mage Armor and Shield scrolls= 50GP.<br />
<br />
== Give me a break.... ==<br />
There is no such thing as an unbalanced class. There are unbalanced players. The creme rises to the top, especially in 3.5. If someone complains? Deal with it. Do the research and build a more powerful character like the guy who you're bitching about did. You can optimize a monk or mage all you want, but the duskblade is stupidly powerful. It has the hit points and base attack of a paladin. At level 20 you can cast 10 first, second, and third level spells. That is, assuming INT of 15, 11 shocking grasps 5d6 damage each. If only three attacks hit on average, due to Arcane Channeling that is still 11*5d6*3 = 165d6 points of damage. Quick cast lets him cast 4 spells a day as a swift action. As a fifth level spell the duskblade can cast polar ray or disintegrate. That is another 120d6 points of damage if you cast them both once. Also armor isn't a problem because at 4th level you can wear medium armor or mithral full-plate. The only problem you might have is casting your spells in melee, but a CON of 20 +5, maxed out concentration 24, and skill focus 3 that is thirty two. If you give the duskblade gear for its level it is almost imposable to stop. I'm not dissing monks or anyone else but stupid power is stupid.<br />
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:Where do you get 11 attacks per turn? As far as I can tell, you get 4 Shocking attacks with a full round action, and 1 spell with a swift action. And even there, it looks like the shocking grasp can only affect each enemy once per turn, so it only does 5d6 to each enemy hit that round... Also, for Polar Ray and Disintegrate, he can only use those together 4 times per day (using one as a swift action and one as a standard action), and that causes him to not attack that round because of casting a standard spell... I really don't understand how it's overpowered... ~~Rogue The Demonchild<br />
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== Try This==<br />
Since there seems to be so much trouble with optimization, lets try this out. <br />
<br>- A level 20 Wizard, with spells prepared for an average day. (The wizard's level may be lower if he has used some spells that require XP, such as wish or permanency.) Think of it as, the monk and the wizard both have trained for the same time, so they're only both level 20 if the wiz hasn't used some xP up.<br />
<br>- A level 20 Monk, all prepared for an average day. <br />
<br>- Neither one has any items besides clothing (neither use weapons or armor, and items are just bonus, so it's fair)<br />
<br>- Neither one multiclasses (since the initial question of the page is which BASE class is unbalanced)<br />
<br>- Both of the two have Elite Array ability scores (15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8), arranged as desired, and +5 ability points for levels 4, 8, 12, 16, and 20.<br />
<br>- Neither of them have any feats EXCEPT those gained by class features (bonus feats).<br />
<br>- The two of them meet on the street and hate each other immediately, and decide to fight. <br />
<br>Let's see how this fight will go. If [[User:S1Q3T3|S1Q3T3]] or [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] are still here, please use this as a battleground.<br />
<br>[[User:Rogue The Demonchild|Rogue The Demonchild]] 08:04, 13 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:wizard wins quick. forcecage (no save, no SR) completely takes out the monk, and cloudkill takes all his con over a few rounds. wizard has already teleported to a beach and is sipping a fancy drink with an umbrella in it. monk cant ethereal out of the cage (its a force effect), he's doomed. if the monk goes first and gets 1 attack off (has to get to him) the wizard blows his +20 to any save or to ac from moment of prescience to either have the monk miss, or to guarantee he's not stunned from stunning fist. Unless you wanna say they start next to each other so the monk could just open with flurry of blows (which is real arbitrary), they should be starting at least 30 feet apart ala duel/ western shoot out. ANd even if the monks next to the wizard when he casts any 20th level wizard is a) taking a 5 ft step and b) passing any concentration check.--[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 08:50, 13 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::Monk ability <i>Abundant Step</i> = "At 12th level or higher, a monk can slip magically between spaces, as if using the spell dimension door, once per day. Her caster level for this effect is one-half her monk level (rounded down)." A monk can teleport out of the forcecage. <br />
::Monk ability <i>Diamond Body</i> = "At 11th level, a monk gains immunity to poisons of all kinds." Cloudkill is a poison, and therefore does not affect the monk at all. --[[User:Rogue The Demonchild|Rogue The Demonchild]] 09:05, 13 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::quicken Dimensional Anchor to counter d-door (or d-lock works too) with the force cage. any number of other things he can still do to the monk. waves of fatigue, finger of death, ect. <br />
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:::a wizard could have still used wish for +5 to int, but with no gear the monks stats are lower than normal for a 20th level character. the monk (assuming 16 con which is generous without items since a monk needs wis, dex, str, and con to be really good) the monk has +15 to make the fort save 24 assuming 24 int via wishes, yes its cheap but spells are a class ability). thats a 50/50 chance to die, and the wizard can do that more than once. if it really comes down to it fly/overland flight can keep the wizard out of the monks range, and theres nothin the monk coud do about it. and I haven't enven gotten into the real good spells yet.<br />
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:::also monks cant compete with wish. a wizard can snap his fingers and alter the universe, keep the tarrasque dead, and any number of other things. and if the wizard just lays down and dies, thats what spell like clone are for. 1 of these class have the ability to come back from the dead. hint. its not the monk. <br />
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:::For the record i love monks, but a properly built wizard is creating his own planes of existence and manipulating existing ones, and probably holding back his true abilities, as to not draw the unwanted attention of gods. monks are still just punching people. monks do have many many good points, but this is a losing battle for Mr martial arts. --[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 10:17, 13 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::As long as I (Rogue the Demonchild) use this example, assume the monk has 15+3(18) Wisdom, 14+2(16) Dexterity, 13 Con, 12 Str, 10 Int, 8 Cha. <br />
::::First off, at level 13+, a monk has spell resistance equal to 10+his level. This means that a level 20 wizard can hit a level 20 monk with some spells 50% of the time. Dimensional anchor is against spell resistance, AND you need to make a ranged attack roll VS 21 AC (10 + 4(wis) + 3(dex) +4(class growth). I will assume that your wizard put the 15 and the 5 extra to INT, and then the 14 to dexterity. The wizard in this case has a +12 to his attack roll, and needs to roll a 9 to hit. This means that <i>Dimensional Anchor</i> only has about a 25% chance of working. <br />
::::Dimensional Lock is an 8th level spell and cannot be quickened until EPIC levels. <br />
::::Also, remember that you're preparing all these spells in advance. Would you really be quickening Dimensional Anchor to one of your 8th level slots?<br />
::::Any spells I can find either affect Spell Resistance or one of the saves, or both. Remember that only one in 2 Waves of Fatigue or Finger of Death will even be able to get past that resistance. Also, Finger of Death affects Fort. Assuming the wizard 24 int (+7 modifier)(as you have given), the save of these is 17+spell level. The ones you use tend to be level 7-8 spells, so I'll go with 24 DC. With 13 Con, the fort is 13, needing to roll an 11 to succeed. This means that Finger of Death, against fort and spell resist, has a 25% chance to work as well. <br />
::::As for the flight, yes you COULD fly away. BUT if you chose to fly as your first action, the monk can teleport up to you and hit you with a quivering palm (to kill) or stunning fist (to stun). If you choose to fly after attempting a Forcecage AND quickened dimensional anchor(25% chance to hit), there's a 3 in 4 chance that the anchor won't work, the monk can teleport to you and hit you.<br />
::::For the record, I am usually a sorcerer or a druid. I don't really like melee classes all that much. I just like to debate the issue fairly, and the monk hasn't gotten much fair arguing from [[User:S1Q3T3|S1Q3T3]]. But I'm enjoying this little debate. <br />
::::Oh, and one last thing, in order to get a +4 bonus to Int from wish, you'd need to cast it 4 times in succession. You don't get a bonus 9th level spell-per-day with that low of Int, so you can only get it +4. AND each wish costs 5000 xp, being 20,000 xp altogether. That is one whole level, so in that case, it is now a level 20 monk against a level 19 wizard with +4 to int. Just remember that. -[[User:Rogue The Demonchild|Rogue The Demonchild]] 17:01, 13 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::::When you say teleport, I'm going to assume you mean ''dimension door'', since you specified this as being item free. You might note, you can't actually '''do anything''' after using ''dimension door''. <br />
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{{quote|After using this spell, you can’t take any other actions until your next turn.|orig=[[SRD:Dimension Door]]}}<br />
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:::::This means a monk can teleport out of a ''forcecage'', and then the wizard can ''forcecage'' the monk again and the monk cannot do anything, since ''forcecage'' specifically mentions that it blocks ethereal travel. The wizard then has two hours to prepare himself to destroy the monk, or he could cast ''acid fog'' which has no save, nor does it allow spell resistance. The monk could hold out for twenty rounds using its Timeless Body class feature, only to have the wizard do it again, at which point the monk sustains 2d6 damage per round over 20 rounds, for an average of 140 damage. If the wizard has more ''acid fogs'' he may have them all affecting the monk concurrently, or he can use other spells, such as ''maw of chaos'', ''black tentacles'', ''baleful polymorph'', ''finger of death'', etc, etc. The only way the monk wins is if he wins initiative and kills the wizard on the first turn, and it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume the wizard has a ''contingent teleport'' set to activate upon being attacked, so that won't actually work either. -- [[User:Jota|Jota]] 20:06, 13 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::::Also, people who play wizards the way we're talking about don't actually cast ''wish'' themselves -- the use ''planar binding'' and the like to bind efreeti and then have the bound creatures cast the ''wishes'' for them in exchange for something or other, so this hypothetical wizard would have all of his attributes boosted by 5. -- [[User:Jota|Jota]] 20:13, 13 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::::::how are you teleporting (standard action, as per spell) and then attacking (another standard action)? the monk cant make it to the wizard with a teleport and attack. also also would casting gate and callin an a 40 hd outsider make you happy? hell not even 40 hd. how about i make you solo a balor or pit fiend at the same time. have fun<br />
:::::::the durations on a lot of spells is almost all day at 20th, so lets let the monk go first<br />
:::::::ok, lets just let the monk go first.. monk charges and hits with quivering palm. blow moment of prescience for +20 to fort save. passes quivering palm, thats off the table. cast force cage, cast fly and fly outta range, call cr 20+. you have 1 teleport. hell i could just call anything with 40hd or more as my first standard action. can you solo a balor? a pit fiend? those are only half strength summons with gate. lasts 20 rounds. even if you can take me out you still got a cr 20 to solo. enjoy.<br />
:::::: edit: also what jota said --[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 20:19, 13 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::::::Abundant Step (Dimension Door) can be used to get the monk out of range of the forcecage (close range =25 + 5/2levels= 75 ft). The (human) monk can be up to 180 feet away, and then charge (human speed (30ft) + monk speed (+60ft) + Charge(x2) = 180ft). Charging at the wizard lets the monk attack after moving up to him, and can attempt then to stun him. The monk's attack bonus is 15+1(str), so 16 + 1d20. The wizard's AC will be 10+2-3(dex), POSSIBLY +4 from mage armor (but no one has mentioned casting that, as the wizard has been casting forcecages), so max about 17 AC. The monk can only miss if he rolls a natural 1 (critically failing). <br />
:::::::The monk would (most likely) be using a stunning fist, DC 10 + 1/2 level + Wisdom (10+10+4=24). The wizard has Fort 6 + Con 1 (assuming Int and Dex were highest), so 7 Fort modifier. The wizard would need to roll a 17 to make this save, meaning he has a 20% chance to make it. 80% chance to be stunned, allowing the monk to full flurry, each can be a stunning fist (to make sure the wizard is still stunned), or even one can be a <i>Quivering Palm</i>, which can one-hit kill the wizard. <br />
:::::::Let me just add that above is a response to Jota, as I wrote it before Name Violation's was posted. The following I have written after Name Violation.<br />
:::::::As I see it, the only reasonably likely way for the wizard to win (so far) is to fly or to summon something else to fight for him. I would say that so far, the monk isn't underpowered, and the wizard's spells aren't overpowered for the most part. The wizard being able to summon a CR 20, or being able to bind others to wish for him; THOSE are overpowered spells. And on that note, summoning those creatures is part of your spell, but using THEIR abilities is not part of the wizard class features, it is part of the summoned creature's. That is (somewhat) equivalent to taking a PrC, as it gives you more abilities than are on the wizard spell list. -[[User:Rogue The Demonchild|Rogue The Demonchild]] 20:39, 13 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::::::well mage armor last 20 hours, this miraculously poverty stricken wizard can wake up, cast it and be good all day. no reason to waste combat rounds buffing with that. and now you're arguing that thats cheating, but those ARE wizard spells, which makes them part of a wizards class ability. I can summon a creature that can do more than hack and slash. sorry. also, you cant take a standard action (dim door) then charge. as jota pointed out, read the 3rd sentence of dimention door<br />
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::::::::{{quote|'''After using this spell, you can’t take any other actions until your next turn.'''|orig=[[SRD:Dimension Door]]}}<br />
::::::::so 2 force cages and mr monk is screwed<br />
::::::::the monks losing and your closes thing to a defense is agreeing they are powerful. and this isn't even into optimizing, or splat books yet, this is just the basics from the srd, there is a lot more powerful stuff at a wizards disposal than at a monks. If the wizard doesn't wanna fight he can always teleport to any friendly plane, leaving the monk with his thumb up his butt. monks have nothing to compete against that stuff with. Are you realizing the monk is weaker than you thought?--[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 21:00, 13 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::::::::Mage armor, agreed. Lasts all day. <br />
::::::::Summoning other things is, as I said, the only thing I can see that is overpowered with the wizard. It gives you infinite power, as you can summon a being twice as strong as you and control it.<br />
::::::::In my example, the monk was teleporting far away, then waiting a turn to charge. Not the same turn. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that.<br />
::::::::If the wizard doesn't want to fight, he teleports away, which is the equivalent of giving up, monk wins. That's not really an option for you, sorry.<br />
::::::::So far, I'm NOT realizing the monk is weaker than I thought, I'm just realizing that some summoning spells are too powerful (not even against a monk, but against anyone). At level 20, you should be fighting CR 20 things with a group of 4. Instead, the wizard can summon up a HD40 thing and solo pwn the CR 20 thing. Now we've agreed that summoning is overpowered. -[[User:Rogue The Demonchild|Rogue The Demonchild]] 21:09, 13 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::::::::and wizards arent the only ones who can do that. wiz/sorc and clerics can all do that. a lot of spells are overpowered by your definition. and the monk can be shut down by rounds 2-3. hell the wizard has the time to cast teleportation circle and potentially send the monk where ever he wants. like to the 20d6 per round damage outskirts of the abyss or 9 hells. but summoning spells are over powered, wizards can have all summoning spells, therefor wizards can be overpowered. sorry they can do more than chuck fireballs and lightning bolts --[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 21:53, 13 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::::::::::So if I'm understanding you correct, you are saying that all casting classes are overpowered and all non-casting classes are underpowered. Good to know. -[[User:Rogue The Demonchild|Rogue The Demonchild]] 22:30, 13 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::::::::::::casting classes aren't overpowered, as much as non casters are underpowered. and if you wanna fix this its alot easier to fix the melee classes than to try and fix spells just because if you change spells, then you have to take that into account when looking at every monster with those spells, and nerfing spells nerfs the CR of the monsters with them. so its easier to change a few classes than a lot of monsters and spells. but its also a trade off, you can be a strong armerd heavy hitting hp machine or a glass cannon that takes a lot more thinking and preparation. but the biggest benefit to wizard over melee classes is a melee class is the same, day in, day out. a wizard can prepare totally different spells from one day to the next changing what they do. its comparing a soldier to a scientist. a soldier can shoot people and probably take a beating, but a scientist invented the a-bomb, which can take out nations, but we still have armies of soldiers. --[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 22:39, 13 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:Well, think of it this way, the only ways you've been naming to beat the monk are high level spells, of which you can only cast a few of. Even with an int of 25, you can only cast 4 8th level spells and 4 9th level spells per day. You have 8 attacks in a day that are amazing. After that they start losing power. Meanwhile, a monk can keep hitting for good damage each turn (5 attacks, say 3 hit, none crit = 6d10+3 = 36 damage) that ignores damage reduction, AND the monks are still hard to hit all day. Its all about how many battles the character will need to fight. -[[User:Rogue The Demonchild|Rogue The Demonchild]] 22:46, 13 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::Let's not forget wizards can take naps. It's always been my gameplay experience that the spellcaster makes the decision to call it a day, and camp for the night. He's got enough ways to keep himself happy and healthy during the night, too. Finally, I can think of no example in which a level 20 character would call 36 dpr "good damage", even if it is bypassing DR. A proper rogue can deal that much by level 9 without breaking a sweat (subject to certain conditions being met, but that's hardly an obstacle for most veteran players). --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 23:01, 13 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::Yes, wizards CAN take naps. And meanwhile, the monk is still fighting.<br />
:::36 dpr is not actually good damage, but this is with no items. With magic items the damage will be increased (although not very much, but its still some), and my point is that its decent damage for someone that can't be hit very easily. The monk has 3 high saves, a better-than-average AC, has Evasion and Greater Evasion, is immune to poison and disease, is resistant to spells, has amazing landspeed, can't be damaged from falls, can heal, can teleport away, cannot be aged, can go ethereal, has damage reduction, and has a d8 HP, which is just below a fighters. The monk is the most defensive class of the game, and he can still do pretty decent damage. The only more defensive he can be is if he gained Uncanny Dodge. <br />
:::Oh, and also, assuming the wizard has average HP (2.5/level), and a +1 Constitution, the wizard has 70 HP. 36 damage/round = Wizard dead in 2 rounds. -[[User:Rogue The Demonchild|Rogue The Demonchild]] 23:10, 13 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::: but the wizard already has you trapped after 2 rounds (we went over that), never mind the possibility of contingent spells (like teleport me the hell outta here so i can catch you at MY convenience) and clone (guess you didn't finish me off after all). even if you could take out the wizard, he can come back, the monk can't say the same thing<br />
::::but a wizard has abilities to take out ARMIES, even with out items. a monk without items isn't taking out much. the wizard can summon a balor for 20 rounds and litteraly raise hell, meanwhile the monk punches a guy.... or the wizard can potentially out melee the monk using polymorph. as can a druid with buffs and wildshape. druids and clerics can easily out melee a fighter, barbarian or monk with only a few spells (and clerics can do this all day with divine metamagic persist cheezeyness) and still have most of their spells left incase they need them. no prestige classes needed there either. even a fighter properly built (but not without his magic goodies) can take out a monk with little to no problem. hell even without magic items a fighter with a few feats and a great sword can have about +32 to hit the monk and deal 2d6+71 on a charge, and thats without magic (shock trooper, combat brute, power attack, leap attack, greater w. focus, greater w. specialization). probably a lot more damage in all actuality. or use a lance for d10+71x2 since we're charging for an average of 152 damage, which probably drops the monk in one hit<br />
::::also, a wizard opting to try and go toe to toe with a melee type isn't playing up to his wizards outrageous int--[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 23:38, 13 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::::I would argue that defending DPR by saying it is "with no items" is a misleading. Although true, monks, by design, don't rely on items the way pretty much every other class does. As for the rest of your statement, I totally agree. I think the word you're looking for is "Tank". Monks do very well to hold off enemies and let their squishier allies do some pretty rad things (while doing rad things on their own, to be sure). That said, I think in our hearts we all know a wizard played properly can beat a monk played properly in a one on one standard duel. Under certain circumstances a monk can have the upper hand, but I'd go so far as to say 9 times out of 10 the wizard comes out on top. That, in my mind, means a wizard is stronger. How you choose to define "stronger" may influence your answer, I suppose. Of course, monks would have to keep fighting while the wizards get to sleep. After all, what else is the wizard going to do, considering he's already finished killing/disabling his enemies... (had to get that one last jab in, sorry) --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 23:44, 13 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::::First of all, how does the wizard have the monk trapped in two rounds? Round one, trap, then monk teleports out of range of the cage. <br />
::::::Second, I've already agreed that summoning is overpowered, so lets please stop using that example. We all get it that Gate can pwn people way more powerful than a wizard.<br />
::::::Next, the fighter. I don't know what book shock trooper or combat brute are in, could you link them to me? I don't see how his one attack can deal that much damage. Also remember if you use power attack, you have to reduce your own attack bonus.<br />
::::::You do have good points, though. If anyone can defend the monk better, please give it your all. -[[User:Rogue The Demonchild|Rogue The Demonchild]] 23:57, 13 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::::::the wizard can ready an action to cast once the monk is in range again. The feats should be in complete warrior. and one of the feats i listed lets you take the negative to AC instead of to hit, no matter what your AC is. so the fighter's ac sucks for the round, but is dealing the mad damage with an awesome to-hit--[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 00:06, 14 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::::::They aren't in the Complete Warrior... Or the complete Adventurer. Any other places to find them? -[[User:Rogue The Demonchild|Rogue The Demonchild]] 00:09, 14 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::::::::your search-fu has failed you. pages 110-112 of complete warrior, tactical feats--[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 00:13, 14 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::::::::Yea, sorry, I found it now. I was looking under general feats. <br />
::::::::::Well s**t. Those are rather useful. I should look through that book more often. But either way, I don't believe those two feats can be used together. Combat Brute says you must charge, then on the next turn use power attack. Shock Trooper says you must attack at the end of the charge (which I've come to understand as happening in the same round). Enlighten me if I'm wrong... -[[User:Rogue The Demonchild|Rogue The Demonchild]] 00:20, 14 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::::::::::Also, when it comes to trapping you in two rounds, here's how: Round 1: Wizard casts forcecage(his turn is over). Monk spends standard action getting out with abundant step (his turn is pretty much over). Round 2: Wizard casts forcecage. Monk cries because he just realized he can only abundant step once a day. By the end of round two the monk are trapped again. Sure a wizard has just burned 2 of his 7th level spells, but he still has enough left to eat a monk. --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 00:27, 14 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::::::::::Logic doesn't work. Round 1: Wizard casts forcecage. Monk spends standard action getting about 150 feet away with abundant step. Wizard is out of range to cast forcecage. -[[User:Rogue The Demonchild|Rogue The Demonchild]] 00:39, 14 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::::::::::Wizard casts ''fly'', moves 30 feet up. Without items, the fight's over, unless the monk can jump 30' into the air, and even then he has to close the distance, which means readied ''forcecages'' and ''acid fogs''. As to why higher level spells: those are generally the 'no save, no SR' ones that are required to ensure the monk's doom, and even if they allow the save, having a high DC (from being a higher level spell) is nice. The wizard could easily kite and cast ''scorching ray'' or some such if you would prefer. -- [[User:Jota|Jota]] 00:58, 14 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::::::::::::I was under the impression the point of the duel was to kill the other fighter, not to get away first. I assumed the monk would stay withing fighting distance. He doesn't even have ranged attacks, so if he's more than 30 feet away he's wasting his turn. If the goal is to flee fastest, the wizard can cast teleport or fly like Jota said... --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 01:00, 14 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:i wasn't using combat brute in that example actually. i just listed it for follow up rounds, I was using shock trooper for the negative to ac instead of to-hit. now if shock trooper didn't work on a charge, it wouldn't work at all. it a staple feat of most optimization charging builds. damage break down was actually off tho. should have been d10+ 7(str)+120(powerattack 2 handed is 40, X3 for leap attack)+4 (greater speciaization-)= d10+131X2 or 272 damage. in one hit, from a charge. a fighter can 1 hit a monk, and wizards are much worse-[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 01:20, 14 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::heres another example, just for perspective<br />
:: Warlock 20 (complete arcane), 19 cha, 14 dex, 14con no items. feats of note<br />
::Point blank shot, weapon focus eldrich blast, improved crit eldrich blast, spell specialization eldrich blast,<br />
:: Invocations of note:fell flight, eldrich spear, vitriolic blast, retributive invisibility. <br />
::So we have:<br />
::attack +18 at will range touch, 9d6+2 acid damage (ignores DR and SR)19-20x2 (+2d6 for 4 additional rounds), range 250 feet. (30 avg, +7avg for 5 rounds)<br />
::at will greater invisibility (granting an additional +2 to hit not included above and monk loses dex, but keeps wis and clas to ac)<br />
::fly speed 30 ft.<br />
::+1 hit and +1 damage within 30 feet (if warlock gets cocky enough to approach, but its really unnecessary to ever do) <br />
::112 hp, Dr 5/cold iron, fast healing 5 (swift action, 2 minutes 1/day), energy resist 20 (pick 2)<br />
::with greater invis and flying at will there is no reason to ever be in range or seen. pelt monk and continue till dead. It also means The warlock only misses the monk on a natural 1(5% of the time total), and crits on 19-20(10% of the time total). and still have pleny of other invocations to pick from (see in darkness and magical darkness for 24 hours, darkness at will, see invisibility at will all come to mind)<br />
::and this is far far far from optimized yet, this is literally the most basic combat build for a warlock, and incomplete. ANd warlock is acknowledged by most people to be far inferior to any other full caster--[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 02:10, 14 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::@Badger, the monk has a 90ft landspeed, so he can be up to 180 feet away and still charge the wizard next turn. He's not escaping, he's preparing. <br />
:::@everyone else, I've finished defending the monk (with the exception of rebutting against obviously wrong arguments). I've claimed all I can. If anyone else can join in, please do. -[[User:Rogue The Demonchild|Rogue The Demonchild]] 04:19, 14 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::So I'll be done with this after I make one last point, too. Readied actions. "When the monk gets in range, I want to cast forcecage around him". Wizard just has to wait around until the monk decides he wants to play again.--[[User:Badger|Badger]] 05:07, 14 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::::So basically, summoning is overpowered, and monks need a ranged attack. -[[User:Rogue The Demonchild|Rogue The Demonchild]] 06:32, 14 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::::actually its calling spells that are really powerful, not summoning so much. but there are dozens of spells just as powerful, if not more. The argument people have had for years isn't that the wizard needs to be dumbed down, the consensus is that the monk does need to be powered up. by a lot. and for the record round 2 the wizard can just cat time stop(d4+1 rounds, average 3), cast fly and move,drop a force cage, move, call a balor, move, and laugh, then be out of monks range and have his plans in action.--[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 15:59, 14 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::I think it could (almost) all be balanced out if the monk just got airbending. Being able to slightly fly, and get some ranged attacks. That's all he needs. =P-[[User:Rogue The Demonchild|Rogue The Demonchild]] 21:11, 14 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::::PH2 has some feats to let the monk throw a kameyhameha or haduken a few times a day. --[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 22:17, 14 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::::Really? I don't have the PH2; I should look it up. -[[User:Rogue The Demonchild|Rogue The Demonchild]] 22:37, 14 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::::::In this case, since Flaming Fists and Ki Blast (kamehameha) can both be taken as monk class features, and they each give one extra use of stunning fist... and the Ki Blast uses 2 stunning fists... A monk can, 11 times per day, use a ranged blast dealing 3d6+wis to target within 60 feet. Against a wizard, typically, the monk will hit with the ranged touch attack; so the monk CAN attack from within the forcecage before teleporting out. I'm a little too lazy to calculate everything right now, but it does give the monk a bit more of a chance. -[[User:Rogue The Demonchild|Rogue The Demonchild]] 02:22, 15 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::0% up from 0 is... 0. To make a point, I don't think anyone here actually hates monks -- the simple fact is they aren't especially great and wizards are overwhelmingly powerful in both the horizontal and vertical dimensions. You're defending an indefensible position. This isn't like we were touched in bad places by monks as children -- this just isn't even a good thought exercise. It's an open-and-shut case of utter domination by one side. -- [[User:Jota|Jota]] 02:45, 15 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
::::::::::::again, spells like greater invis, or polymorph into something with an obscene dex can counter that. and at 20th force cage can be casted from 75 feet away. no reason for wizard to get close enough to hit. and then theres that pesky balor i keep bringing up.... a wizard isn't staying within range of someone who can hurt him. its not smart, and wizards are the smart class (i.e. based on int). the only reason to be within 75 feet is to let you hit him. also the reason things like that came out was to try and bring classes like monk up to par. also i the force cage can be made solid so you cant attack and tricks like teleporting water into it until you drown (force cage lasts 40 hours, theres plenty of time. <br />
<br />
:::::::::::::round 1-monk moves and/or attacks, wizard force cages (solid)<br />
:::::::::::::round 2-monk d-doors out, wizard moves, time stops and gets 3 (average)apparant rounds<br />
:::::::::::::apparant round 1-cast fly, move<br />
:::::::::::::apparant round 2-cast gate, summon balor next to you, move<br />
:::::::::::::apparant round 3-forcecage #2, barred 20ft cube, around monk and balor, move<br />
:::::::::::::round 3-monk is in forcecage #2, and sees no enemy except balor locked in a cage with him. Wizard cast greater invis, moves<br />
:::::::::::::round 4- monk cant do anything to wizard and is toe to toe with a balor for 20 rounds, wizard acid fogs. monk takes 2d6 acid for 20 rounds.<br />
:::::::::::::round 5 and later- wizard doesn't have to do anything<br />
:::::::::::::and this is just basics. a lot worse could be done. also i may have some order of tactics wrong, i don't tend to play wizards. and the warlock still takes out a monk in this scenario, since he has better fire power, longer range, flight and invisibility. --[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 02:37, 15 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I don't think you can cast acid fogs through a solid force cage... And yes, as I've said earlier, the balor is overpowered. And I've mentioned to stop using the <i>Gate</i> example because we all get that it's overpowered. <br />
:Also, I agree that wizards are overpowered, because of the spells they get. But just a few deleted spells could get them more balanced (for one, getting rid of gate). Monks, as I've said, need to be powered up. They basically need to be able to airbend. Just 3 moves: limited flight, medium-ranged attack, and something that knocks people prone. <br />
:And finally, as I've said earlier, I don't typically play a monk either. I'm usually a druid or sorcerer. I'm only giving the monk a fair debate. You've already run me out of arguments. I'm only commenting on things that I see are wrong. -[[User:Rogue The Demonchild|Rogue The Demonchild]] 05:37, 15 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::1st gate was solid (10x10), second is 20x20 barred so the balor would fit. and no, saying "you can't use that" isnt allowed. these aren't play ground make it up as we go along rules here, it is a perfectly viable and allowed wizard tactic and allowed by RAW, its the pay off for surviving long enough learning to cast, thats no less fair than the monks dr10/magic of quivering palm. Its not severe munchkinizing, twinking, power-building or optimizing. its picking one of the top end caster spells. 9th level spells are friggen uber, there is no denying that.<br />
<br />
:::why are you so fixated on lowering a wizards power rather than bumping up a monks? people agree monks (most melee for that matter) need a swift kick in the gonads to get up to par. its not that the wizards jump ahead in power, but rather the monk falls behind. rather than punish the wizard, fix the monk<br />
<br />
::::by the way, trying to 20th level a fight with a wizard and using no items was stabbing yourself in the foot. items could at least have given a few more options for the monk to delay the fight's end.--[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 05:57, 15 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::Saying "you can't use that" is perfectly allowed, because I've already agreed that you'll win with one casting of that. 1st turn, use gate. Monk dies. Good fight. NOW lets try without that, to see if there's any other no save 1 turn kills, because its those moves that are overpowered. <br />
:::::And second, are you REALLY not reading what I've been saying? I've been admitting that the monk needs to be bumped up for awhile now. Lowering Sorcerer/Wizard spells a bit is just to balance them with the other classes, because a few spells are overpowered (although I've only found a very small amount). Otherwise you have to powerup monk (probably in the way I've already mentioned), powerup fighters, which I can only see happening with giving them feats that are more powerful (which also runs the risk of being overpowered just like spells), powerup barbarians, etc. <br />
:::::And no, without items was not at all stabbing myself in the foot. If the monk had items, so would the wizard, and it would end the same. Having feats may have helped, but I just wanted to see where a fair fight would go. I don't really give a damn that the monk lost. <br />
:::::Oh, and one last comment: to answer the ACTUAL question on this page, I think the Bard is the most underpowered class. Its like a wizard without any of the good spells, and its fighting isn't too good either... -[[User:Rogue The Demonchild|Rogue The Demonchild]] 06:52, 15 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::Since the rules laid out by the past thousand discussions suggest that we should only look at the 20 core levels of the class, and not multi/prestige class options, I will only mention that the bard has tons of awesome options there, and leave it at that. As for the Bard as a straight 20 level progression, he really only is fun (and useful) in a game with the right amount of roleplay. Bards also work very well as the 5th man in a party, buffing up the friends. Of course, thus far we've only been talking about 20 level straight class, one on one fights. That said, in a fight, I think unless the bard went first, he'd have a hard time winning. If the bard went first, I think his chances of winning skyrocket against most opponents. I can see a bard beating a monk, fighter, ranger, paladin, barbarian, and depending on how the dice fall, a rogue. By the way, I'm defining "win" as "not dead when the fighting is over", if that changes how you perceive my opinion --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 18:42, 15 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::I think that straight 20, the bard is way underpowered. But if we include prestige classes that are based on the class, then yea, the bard has some awesome options, as does the monk, wizard, etc. The bard can be useful, but he's just not strong enough. -[[User:Rogue The Demonchild|Rogue The Demonchild]] 00:30, 16 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::::Bards aren't meant to solo, they are much more of a support class. bards cant toe to toe with big baddies, but the can buff the hell out of the fighter and monk who are better at it. Actually I've seen a 1st level bard crit on a fascinate vs a balor and the balor fumbled its will save. results were hilarious. but bards can be pretty good, but i agree they aren't strong enough--[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 01:24, 16 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::::At the risk of sounding like a concerned parent of a stupid child, I don't think the bard is "underpowered" so much as "differently powered". Almost all his spells deal with illusions, social interactions, or party-wide buffs. If you're defining "underpowered" as "will die against a 20th level fighter", then yes, he's underpowered. However, a bard doesn't deliver the killing blow, he sets up the killing blow for his friends. If you're putting a bard in a position where he has to kill someone, your party has failed. I think that needs to be remembered when calculating power. --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 01:41, 16 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:A few weeks late but here's some food for thought: The Wizard has no items; "clothing only" was specifically stated. That means no spell component pouch and no arcane foci. Eschew Materials won't cover costly spell components or those pesky foci that are required by a number of spells, like Mage Armor and Fly. Sure, he can use Limited Wish for those, but there goes some of his XP.<br />
:Speaking of XP, how much these guys start with is very important. If the mage was allowed to pre-cast Wish some weeks ago for his +5 Int, he starts today at level 19 and possibly level 18 depending on how fresh to 20 his technical 'start' would have been. If he has to cast his Wishes today, he's SoL due to the XP-cost limitations of not being able to drop you a level. Regardless, there may not now be enough wiggle room in the XP department to cast a Limited Wish for Mage Armor, let alone a Wish or Gate.<br />
:Sorry to post and run--I'm liable to forget about this, but the discussion got me thinking.--[[User:RelientKitten|relientKitten]] 09:29, 1 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
::planar bind genies and make them cast wish for you. no xp of yours is spent--[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 15:31, 1 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
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{{Forumfooter|Discussion}}</div>Name Violationhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=SRD_Talk:Time_Domain&diff=483911SRD Talk:Time Domain2010-07-30T19:18:20Z<p>Name Violation: </p>
<hr />
<div>i don't think this is part of the srd. And even tho its under the OGL is it OGC? if not i don't think we're allowed to post it here--[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 06:02, 30 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Well, if this official domain from the Forgotten Realms setting isn't allowed, then neither are several of the other domains listed under [[:Category:Domain]]. The Player's Handbook lists Air, Animal, Chaos, Death, Destruction, Earth, Evil, Fire, Good, Healing, Knowledge, Law, Luck, Magic, Plant, Protection, Strength, Sun, Travel, Trickery, War, and Water. As I understand it, the core rulebooks (Players handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide, Monster Manual, and Psionics Handbook) are the basis of the SRD. Unless I'm wrong in my assessment, the other domains are not part of the SRD.<br />
<br />
:Upshot is, I don't know if WotC allows Forgotten Realms rules into OGL or OGC, but if things like this domain aren't allowed, then neither are several articles I had nothing to do with. [[Special:Contributions/67.142.130.36|67.142.130.36]] 18:50, 30 July 2010 (UTC) [[User:StarSword|StarSword]]<br />
<br />
::the licensing thing is as tricky beast. some things are ogc but not made by WOTC, but wotc has laws in place to protect its material. Things they made are, for the most part, off limits unless they said otherwise. its why we don't have every feat, spell, class, and item from every book they made on here.--[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 19:18, 30 July 2010 (UTC)</div>Name Violationhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=User_talk:67.142.130.36&diff=483906User talk:67.142.130.362010-07-30T18:33:29Z<p>Name Violation: Created page with 'hey, i notice you're putting up a lot of WotC stuff. WE arent allowed to reproduce most of what they made due to certain laws. Can you explain if these are OGC or OGL. also eithe…'</p>
<hr />
<div>hey, i notice you're putting up a lot of WotC stuff. WE arent allowed to reproduce most of what they made due to certain laws. Can you explain if these are OGC or OGL. also either way they arent SRD--[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 18:33, 30 July 2010 (UTC)</div>Name Violationhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=SRD_Talk:Planetouched&diff=483878SRD Talk:Planetouched2010-07-30T06:26:47Z<p>Name Violation: </p>
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<div>Someone should add the genasi to this. [[User:StarSword|StarSword]] 1:10 AM, 30 July 2010<br />
:they arent part of the SRD. are they OGC? theres a good reason a lot of things arent on the wiki. all the stuff fron FR and eberron aren't allowed to be reproduced except by wotc--[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 06:24, 30 July 2010 (UTC)</div>Name Violationhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=SRD_Talk:Planetouched&diff=483877SRD Talk:Planetouched2010-07-30T06:24:49Z<p>Name Violation: </p>
<hr />
<div>Someone should add the genasi to this. [[User:StarSword|StarSword]] 1:10 AM, 30 July 2010<br />
:are they OGC? theres a good reason a lot of things arent on the wiki. all the stuff fron FR and eberron aren't allowed to be reproduced except by wotc--[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 06:24, 30 July 2010 (UTC)</div>Name Violationhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=SRD_Talk:Planetouched&diff=483876SRD Talk:Planetouched2010-07-30T06:24:37Z<p>Name Violation: </p>
<hr />
<div>Someone should add the genasi to this. [[User:StarSword|StarSword]] 1:10 AM, 30 July 2010<br />
:are the OGC? theres a good reason a lot of things arent on the wiki. all the stuff fron FR and eberron aren't allowed to be reproduced except by wotc--[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 06:24, 30 July 2010 (UTC)</div>Name Violationhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=SRD_Talk:Time_Domain&diff=483875SRD Talk:Time Domain2010-07-30T06:02:33Z<p>Name Violation: Created page with 'i don't think this is part of the srd. And even tho its under the OGL is it OGC? if not i don't think we're allowed to post it here--~~~~'</p>
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<div>i don't think this is part of the srd. And even tho its under the OGL is it OGC? if not i don't think we're allowed to post it here--[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 06:02, 30 July 2010 (UTC)</div>Name Violationhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Warbound_impaler_(3.5e_Creature)&diff=483593Warbound impaler (3.5e Creature)2010-07-27T21:45:16Z<p>Name Violation: </p>
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<div>__NOTOC__<br />
{{3.5e Creature<br />
|creature=Warbound impaler<!--Creature Name--><br />
|size=large |type=plant<br />
|hd=12d8+72 |hp=126<br />
|init=-2<br />
|speed=30 ft. (6 squares)<br />
|ac=19 (-1 size, -2 Dex, +12 natural) |touch=7 |flat=19<br />
|bab=+9 |grapple=+19<br />
|at=Slam +14 melee (1d8+6/19-20)<br />
|full_at=2 slams +14 melee (1d8+6/19-20)<br />
|space=10 ft. |reach=5 ft.<br />
|sa=Impale, improved grab, thorn volley, trample 1d8+9 <br />
|sq=Darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, plant traits, resistance to electricity 10 and fire 10, thorn field<br />
|fort=+14 |ref=+2 |will=+4<br />
|str=23 |dex=6 |con=22 |int=5 |wis=10|cha=7<br />
|skills=Hide +11<br />
|feats=Cleave, improved bull rush, improved critical (slam), improved natural attack (slam), power attack<br />
|env=Temperate forests<br />
|org=Solitary<br />
|cr=7<br />
|treas=None<br />
|align=Usually neutral<br />
|adv=--<br />
|la=--<br />
}}<br />
{{ImageNeeded}}<br />
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''<!--Encounter text here.-->''<br />
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=== Combat ===<br />
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'''<!--Special ability (tagged with Su, Ex, Sp, or Ps if applicable)-->:''' <!--Special ability description.--><br />
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{{3.5e Creatures CR <!--your creature's challenge rating. If the CR is less then or equal to 1/6 please insert "1/6 or less", if the CR is greater then or equal to 40 please insert "40 or more".--> Breadcrumb}}<br />
[[Category:DnD]]<br />
[[Category:3.5e]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Creature]]<br />
[[Category:CR<!--your creature's challenge rating-->]]<br />
[[Category:<!--your creature's type--> Type]]<br />
[[Category:<!--your creature's subtype--> Subtype]]<br />
[[Category:LA<!--your creature's level advancement; if present. if not; delete-->]]<br />
[[Category:<!--your creature's alignment. some examples follow: [[category:Lawful]], [[Category:Neutral (Law-Chaos) Alignment]], [[Category:Good Alignment]], [[Category:Neutral (Good-Evil) Alignment]]-->]]<br />
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</nowiki><!--Delete this line (and only this line) before you save!--></div>Name Violationhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Bow_Sniper_(3.5e_Feat)&diff=483457Talk:Bow Sniper (3.5e Feat)2010-07-26T19:48:29Z<p>Name Violation: </p>
<hr />
<div>; shmeh<br />
<br />
==con==<br />
<br />
whats the reasoning behind adding con to damage? how does that work, also, that makes this a highly OP feat. adding 2 stats to damage is horrible, and makes feats like weapon specialization near useless --[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 19:48, 26 July 2010 (UTC)</div>Name Violationhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Burning_Resolve_(3.5e_Feat)&diff=483327Talk:Burning Resolve (3.5e Feat)2010-07-25T19:53:04Z<p>Name Violation: </p>
<hr />
<div>== Balance ==<br />
<br />
Too good, and no one will ever qualify for it. -- [[User:Jota|Jota]] 13:43, 23 June 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:A stone giant could qualify for it in after a few campaigns --[[User:173.64.132.210|173.64.132.210]] 22:11, 9 October 2009 (MDT)<br />
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::I toned it down a bit, it's about as good as a barbarian's rage now. By the way, it should probably go under epic feats. [[User:Chess435|Chess435]] 9:09 30 November 2009<br />
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:::I removed the needsbalance template as such and changed the feat type. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:29, 30 November 2009 (MST)<br />
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::::Anyone know of a way to get 25 BAB? I can't think of one, other than level 29, that is... And this is a really underpowered feat for level 29.--[[User:Badger|Badger]] 18:36, 25 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::::actually you cant get 25 bab without being a monster (dragons can do it, and i think outsiders too), but players dont gain bab after 20th character level, it becomes and epic to-hit bonus. so its impossible for a player to take this as written--[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 19:53, 25 July 2010 (UTC)</div>Name Violationhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Burning_Resolve_(3.5e_Feat)&diff=483291Burning Resolve (3.5e Feat)2010-07-25T16:36:02Z<p>Name Violation: sorry, your argument was invalid</p>
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<div>{{3.5e Feat<br />
|name=Burning Resolve<br />
|types=Epic<br />
|summary="You've attacked me enough!"<br />
|prereqs=Base Attack Bonus +25, Strength 40+, Constitution 30+<br />
|benefit=When you reach half you max HP, You must make a Will Save (Most willingly fail) of 10 + (1/2 ECL) + Str modifier, to not go into a state of Burning Resolve. This state increases your strength by 6, your constitution by 4 and any movement speeds by 10'. To come out of the state you must either be knocked unconscious or be healed over half you max HP. If knocked out, you are fatigued upon waking up and for 3D6 Hours. If healed back over half your health, you become exhausted for the rest of the current day.<br />
|special=When activated, Burning Resolve turned the skin a dark black color and the eyes a burning red, giving it the name "Burning Resolve". In this state, you are unable to speak coherently and also has a red aura around you.<br />
}}<br />
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{{3.5e Epic Feats Breadcrumb}}<br />
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[[Category:Epic]]</div>Name Violationhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Halberdier_(5e_Class)&diff=483289Halberdier (5e Class)2010-07-25T16:35:32Z<p>Name Violation: sorry, your argument was invalid</p>
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<div>{{stub|18:59, 30 June 2009 (MDT)}}<br />
{{Wikify|Interwiki linking is lacking.}}<br />
<br />
{{DnD Base Class Infobox<br />
|img=<br />
|imgloc=<br />
|imgsize=<br />
|imgcaption=<br />
|rating_power=1<br />
|raters_power=1<br />
|rating_wording=1.5<br />
|raters_wording=1<br />
|rating_formatting=2.5<br />
|raters_formatting=1<br />
|rating_flavor=1.5<br />
|raters_flavor=1<br />
|authors=24.25.187.205 <br />
|datecreated=24 June 2009<br />
|status=<br />
|editing=please discuss with me first<br />
|type=Combat-Focused<br />
|desc=A halberdier is a devoted spearman whose first duty is the protection of those in his jurisdiction.<br />
}}<br />
<br />
==Halberdier==<br />
<br />
Halberdier are disciplined in the ways of the spear. They stride the battlefields with spear in hand and confidence in heart. Usually appointed as Captain ranked individuals of Town Guard Units, they are tactical as well as strong and are the first to respond to high-level threats.<br />
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===Making a Halberdier===<br />
<br />
{{Section Description Needed}}<br />
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'''Abilities:''' Halberdiers for the most part are balanced allies. Needing Constitution and Strength to withstand the blows and push the enemy back to protect allies. Dexterity is mainly only used to increase AC and Initiative.<br />
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'''Races:''' A Halberdier can be any race, and of any Alignment. More often then not they are Dwarves, Humans, or Orcs. <br />
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'''Alignment:''' Halberdier's alignment has little to do with their abilities, but simply gives a glimpse of their morals. May they be city defenders, adventurers, or sinister raiders.<br />
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'''Starting Gold:''' Same as Fighter.<br />
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'''[[SRD:Race Descriptions#Starting Age|Starting Age]]:''' As a Fighter.<br />
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{| class="{{d20}}"<br />
|+<br />
<div>{{#anc:Table: The Halberdier}}</div><br />
Hit Die: d10<br />
|-<br />
! rowspan="2" | Level<br />
! rowspan="2" | [[BAB|Base<br/>Attack Bonus]]<br />
! colspan="3" | [[SRD:Saving Throw|Saving Throw]]s<br />
! rowspan="2" | Special<br />
<br />
|-<br />
! [[SRD:Saving Throw#Fortitude|Fort]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Reflex|Ref]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Will|Will]]<br />
<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|1st|| class="left" | +1 || +2 || +2 || +2<br />
| class="left" | Spear Mastery +1<br />
<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|2nd|| class="left" | +2 || +3 || +3 || +3<br />
| class="left" | Bonus Feat<br />
<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|3rd|| class="left" | +3 || +3 || +3 || +3<br />
| class="left" | Enhanced Strike 1D4<br />
<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|4th||class="left" | +4 || +4 || +4 || +4<br />
| class="left" | Bulwark of Defense<br />
<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|5th||class="left" | +5 || +4 || +4 || +4<br />
| class="left" | Defend the Weak<br />
<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|6th||class="left" | +6/+1 || +5 || +5 || +5<br />
| class="left" | Enhanced Strike 1D6<br />
<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|7th||class="left" | +7/+2 || +5 || +5 || +5<br />
| class="left" | Spear Mastery +2<br />
<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|8th||class="left" | +8/+3 || +6 || +6 || +6<br />
| class="left" | Vigilance<br />
<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|9th||class="left" | +9/+4 || +6 || +6 || +6<br />
| class="left" | Keen, Enhanced Strike 1D8<br />
<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|10th||class="left" | +10/+5 || +7 || +7 || +7<br />
| class="left" | Unstoppable<br />
<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|11th||class="left" | +11/+6/+1 || +7 || +7 || +7<br />
| class="left" | Inspirational<br />
<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|12th||class="left" | +12/+7/+2 || +8 || +8 || +8<br />
| class="left" | Enhanced Strike 1D10<br />
<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|13th||class="left" | +13/+8/+3 || +8 || +8 || +8<br />
| class="left" | Spear Mastery +3<br />
<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|14th||class="left" | +14/+9/+4 || +9 || +9 || +9<br />
| class="left" | Bonus Feat<br />
<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|15th||class="left" | +15/+10/+5 || +9 || +9 || +9<br />
| class="left" | Hold the Line<br />
<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|16th||class="left" | +16/+11/+6/+1 || +10 || +10 || +10<br />
| class="left" | Bonus Feat<br />
<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|17th||class="left" | +17/+12/+7/+2 || +10 || +10 || +10<br />
| class="left" | Spear Mastery +4<br />
<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|18th||class="left" | +18/+13/+8/+3 || +11 || +11 || +11<br />
| class="left" | Bonus Feat<br />
<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|19th||class="left" | +19/+14/+9/+4 || +11 || +11 || +11<br />
| class="left" | Enhanced Strike 1D12 and bleeding<br />
<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}"<br />
|20th||class="left" | +20/+15/+10/+5 || +12 || +12 || +12<br />
| class="left" | Impale<br />
|}<br />
<br />
'''Class Skills (8 + [[SRD:Intelligence|Int]] modifier per level, &times;4 at 1st level)'''<br/><br />
[[SRD:Balance|Balance*]] ([[SRD:Dexterity|Dex]]), [[SRD:Climb|Climb*]] ([[Srd:Strength|Str]]), [[SRD:Concentration|Concentration]] ([[SRD:Constitution|Con]]), [[SRD:Craft|Craft]] (Spear) ([[SRD:Intelligence|Int), [[SRD:Diplomacy|Diplomacy]] ([[SRD:Charisma|Cha]]), [[Disable Device]] ([[SRD:Intelligence|Int]]), Escape Artist* ([[SRD:Dexterity|Dex]]), Gather Information ([[SRD:Charisma|Cha]]), Handle Animal ([[SRD:Charisma|Cha]]), Heal ([[SRD:Wisdom|Wis]]), Hide* ([[SRD:Dexterity|Dex]]), Intimidate ([[SRD:Charisma|Cha]]), Jump* (STR), Knowledge (Dungeoneering) ([[SRD:Intelligence|Int]]), Knowledge (Geography) ([[SRD:Intelligence|Int]]), Knowledge (Local) ([[SRD:Intelligence|Int]]), Knowledge (Nobility/Royalty) ([[SRD:Intelligence|Int]]), Listen ([[SRD:Wisdom|Wis]]), Profession (Bodyguard) ([[SRD:Wisdom|Wis]]), Ride ([[SRD:Dexterity|Dex]]), Search ([[SRD:Intelligence|Int]]), Sense Motive ([[SRD:Wisdom|Wis]]), Spot ([[SRD:Wisdom|Wis]]), [[SRD:Survival|Survival]] ([[SRD:Wisdom|Wis]]), [[SRD:Swim|Swim*]] ([[SRD:Strength|Str]]), [[SRD:Use Rope|Use Rope]] ([[SRD:Dexterity|Dex]])<br />
<br />
<br />
====Class Features====<br />
<br />
All of the following are class features of the Halberdier.<br />
<br />
'''Weapon and Armor Proficiency:''' Halberdiers are proficient with spears and polearms, excluding exotic. Gaining the defense bonuse from a Buckler even though they are wielding a two handed weapon. They also gain proficiency with all armor and bucklers.<br />
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'''{{#anc:Spear Mastery}}:''' At level one, a Halberdier gets +1 to his attack bonus with all spears and polearms, this bonus increases to +2 at level 7, +3 at level 13 and +4 at level 17.<br />
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'''{{#anc:Bonus Feat}}:''' A Halberdier can take any fighter feat for a bonus feat.<br />
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'''{{#anc:Bulwark of Defense}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' A Halberdier's precision and skill in controlling the area around them is truly remarkable. From 4th level on, opponents moving through any square that a Halberdier threatens treats all the squares that this Halberdier threatens as difficult terrain.<br />
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'''{{#anc:Defend the Weak}}:'''If an ally falls prone or stunned within 10 ft of the Halberdier, starting at level five, the Halberdier can move to the person as a free action, and gains a +2 to AC and +2 to BAB if they fight defensively to protect the fallen ally.<br />
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'''{{#anc:Unstoppable}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' At 11th level, the Halberdier is always on alert and willing to do whatever it takes to help his companions, granting him a +4 to all saves for fear, stun and daze effects.<br />
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'''{{#anc:Vigilance}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Supernatural|Su]]):''' At level eight a Halberdier gains 60ft night vision from his post of keeping a vigilant watch even at night. He even gets a +2 on saving throws against unnatural darkness and magical blindness.<br />
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'''''{{#anc:Keen}}'':''' The Halberdier has mastered his spear to the point he is more accurate at targeting vitals. Starting at level nine, she treats all polearms as though they had the Keen enhancement.<br />
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'''{{#anc:Inspirational Shout}}:''' At 11th level, as a standard action, a Halberdier can shout, giving his allies +2 AC and +1 attack bonus for 1d6 rounds. This shout also has a chance to intimidate the Halberdier's enemies, causing them to be shaken for one round, DC 10+CHA mod will save to negate.<br />
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'''''{{#anc:Holder of the Line}}'' ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Spell-Like|Sp]]):'''Upon reaching level 15, a Halberdier has learned how to keep the enemy at bay, doing a sweeping slash with his polearm, knocking all in his threatening squares back 5ft (one square) with a Strength check opposed of 10+str modifier.<br />
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'''{{#anc:Enhanced Strike}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):'''Bonding with the spear, giving increased damage. At level 3 1d4. Level 6 1d6. Level 9 1d8. Level 12 1d10. Level 19 1d12 and 2d6 bleeding for 1d4 rounds.<br />
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'''{{#anc:Impale}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' At 20th level, a Halberdier is capable a full force strike, dealing an additional 2d6 damage and another 2d6 if done in tandem with a charge. Upon impaling the Halberdier gets a free grapple check to lock the opponent in place with his weapon.<br />
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===Campaign Information===<br />
<br />
====Playing a Halberdier====<br />
<br />
{{Section Description Needed}}<br />
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'''Combat:''' Halberdiers strive to be on the frontlines. Being able to take a lot of punishment and still push many enemies back. They do not fare well alone, though skilled combatants, they work best in either large numbers or in unison with Fighters, Barbarians and Casters. Allowing other classes the peace of mind that someone can "Hold the line!" when the fragile wizards get too close.<br />
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====Halberdiers in the World====<br />
<br />
{{Section Description Needed}}<br />
<br />
"I fight with heart, a spear, and a heart on my spear" Kaitzur Aki, Half-Elf Halberdier<br />
<br />
A Halberdier is usually the one at the frontlines, fending off enemies with Spear and Shield.<br />
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'''Daily Life:''' A day in the life as a Halberdier usually consists of either patrolling city roads. Or training subordinates. They tend to tell boisterous stories about fending off many foes at a bottleneck or cliff pass.<br />
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'''Organizations:''' Halberdiers are either part of Town Guard Units or even Imperial Armies. They have learned the riches of adventuring as well though. And with their ability to hold any foe at bay, they are easily welcomed by any party.<br />
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'''NPC Reactions:''' NPCs will usually react to this class with respect, given their courage and skill.<br />
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<br />
<br />
----<br />
{{DnD Base Classes Breadcrumb}}<br />
{{Base Class Wikify|June 2009}}<br />
{{Base Class Description Needed|June 2009}}<br />
{{Base Class Stub|June 2009}}<br />
[[Category:DnD]]<br />
[[Category:3.5e]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Class]]<br />
[[Category:Base Class]]<br />
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--></div>Name Violationhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Kenseijin_(3.5e_Class)&diff=483233Talk:Kenseijin (3.5e Class)2010-07-24T22:39:58Z<p>Name Violation: /* Balance */</p>
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<div>== Balance ==<br />
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lolwut? extra hit die is bad. really bad. over the top munchkin bad. --[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 01:24, 14 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:Whoa yeah, either I'm misreading this, or at level 3 you have 9d10 hp (assuming you have 16 WIS). Also, your saves need to be normalized. 10/10/15 is not a normal progression, they must be either 6 or 12 at level 20. --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 02:29, 14 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::So wait... at level 20 with 20 wisdom you would have 120d10 health? Huh, maybe my DM will let me play this class in my next adventure... ''':P''' --[[User:Vrail|Vrail]] 04:47, 14 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::I added [[Template:Needsbalance]]. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 17:39, 14 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::As is, the HD doesn't do that much for you if you go only with this class; it just prevents it from sucking more since all you get are bonus feats (I honestly cannot tell what the Sword Bearer does at all). It doesn't even really put it above a fighter, since even the fighter gets full BAB and more bonus feats. In, the end, this class by itself just grants HP, and that's it. It's dippable to a dangerous extreme (I can just imagine a cleric with a billion HD and persisted divine power), but it's not that big a deal if it can't be applied to other class levels. That being said, it's not really that good of an idea, either.<br />
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::::Also, way to rate your own class, man. Try to do it properly next time (because it only goes up to 5/5). - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 19:04, 14 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::::Using feats for HP the fighter cannot attain this with any regard. Seems overpowered to me as such. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:42, 14 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::::As far as I can tell, you take a 1 level dip to get the exponential HD class ability and then never look back. Nothing specifies that it only works with Kenseijin levels. Also since we're discussing general balance, what does putting 90% of your XP into your sword do, other than slow down leveling? Also, you included several Epic level feats in the bonus feat list. Are you planning to let non-epic characters take epic level feats?--[[User:Badger|Badger]] 00:33, 15 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::::::Unless you plan to use something like the Rogue bonus feat trick (ignoring prereqs), you couldn't possibly take any Epic feats anyway. Since this class has to have the prereqs, the epic feats should be removed. More importantly, a fighter with more hp is still a fighter (i.e. not that good), especially when a DM with any brains would pit you against something that doesn't need to deal damage to shit on your face. It has the same weakness as every other class that has the potential for loads of hit points: it's one failed save away from being dead. Essentially, the high hit points are irrelevant, since the class is weak enough that no reasonably leveled opponent will bother with it anyway. Pit it against anything with good SLA's and this class is screwed. Overpowered? Not likely. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 23:40, 16 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::::::Ok i understand what you guys are saying, but first of all, ITS NOT DONE...and second of all if you would read about them, you would understand why they have increased hitdie, THEY HAVE NO AC, and as for mr take a level of kenseijin so you can get EXP HD and never look back, you need to learn how to read...ive had the kill factor posted on that ability since i made this class...it only works with the Oath of Freedom ability...Thus if you break the oath you lose the ability aswell as the hitdie you gained from it...as well as an alignment change to Cn and DM intervention of causing your character to die...onces its done read it and tell me what you think<br />
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::::::::And FYI this is almost identical, but made less powered than a 3.0 Orient class so dont give me crap about it being OP their good but not that good...plus you have alot of restriction to actions, kinda like a pally [[User:Envoyof aGod|Envoyof_aGod]] 21:13, 24 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::::Ok, so here's the deal, "No armor" doesn't mean "no AC". Natural armor, Dex, Deflection, and other bonuses can get you to a pretty decent AC (nothing too astounding, but you can easily break 20 or so). As for the single level dip, nothing says you can't do that (unless I'm misinterpreting your rules). "Kenseijin are allowed to multiclass without penalty" is a direct quote, and as far as I can tell the only way to break the oath is to wear armor. Is Exponential Hit Dice only for levels of Kenseijin? I assume so, but nothing in your text clearly rules one way or the other. I think that is your problem. I take a single level of Kenseijin, then spend my next 19 levels playing around with other classes. I get all the benefits of Kenseijin as long as I don't wear armor, and I also get the benefits of my other classes (to boost saves, and combat functionality). That's where the OP comes into play. The class itself is pretty weak, but a single level of it is worth a ton when used with a 19 level progression of other classes. --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 22:11, 24 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::::::::hell a belt of the monk gives wisdom mod +1 to ac (its been brought up a bunch of times in the past), so no armor isnt a big deal. Bracers of armor also work, plus the things badger mentioned. Ac is easily pumpable, even with out min-maxing--[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 22:39, 24 July 2010 (UTC)</div>Name Violationhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=SRD_Talk:Chill_Touch&diff=483205SRD Talk:Chill Touch2010-07-24T15:36:25Z<p>Name Violation: </p>
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<div>does this spell last for multiple rounds? ie can i cast this, slap a couple people with it this round, then do the same thing next round? [[User:Zau|Zau]] 12:35, 17 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:That's a good question. According to [[SRD:Spell_Descriptions#Touch_Spells_and_Holding_the_Charge|the SRD]], you can make touch attacks round after round. However, since they are melee attacks, you can't cast and then make more than one attack in the same round. But you should be able to cast and make one attack in round 1, then make your full number of attacks in round 2. [[User:Jazzman831|Jazz]][[User talk:Jazzman831|Man]] 15:44, 17 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::The spell itself says "You can use this melee touch attack up to one time per level." So my inclination would be a 15th level sorcerer could be slapping people for 15 consecutive "touches" and use only one spell. So you're limited by the number of melee attacks you can make in a single round, as Jazzman said. --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 17:53, 17 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::so it lasts until you use up all the hits? that seems a bit unba. should it have a duration of 1round/level to stop people from precasting it? [[User:Zau|Zau]] 22:42, 19 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Until you use up all the hits or you cast another spell, whichever comes first ([[SRD:Spell Descriptions#Touch Spells and Holding the Charge|ref]]). —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 21:09, 20 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::This seems GREAT, until you realize that you need your spellcaster in melee range. Bad move. The second issue is that it takes 2 attacks to provide a reliable -1 to the creature, meaning that there are better debuff spells out there. I suppose you could put this onto a mage hand somehow, but at that point, just throw a magic missile and be done with it.--[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 10:08, 24 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::look at the spell spectral hand (2nd level spell that lets you deliver touch spells at Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level) . this + spectral hand = pretty good--[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 15:35, 24 July 2010 (UTC)</div>Name Violationhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=SRD_Talk:Chill_Touch&diff=483204SRD Talk:Chill Touch2010-07-24T15:35:57Z<p>Name Violation: </p>
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<div>does this spell last for multiple rounds? ie can i cast this, slap a couple people with it this round, then do the same thing next round? [[User:Zau|Zau]] 12:35, 17 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:That's a good question. According to [[SRD:Spell_Descriptions#Touch_Spells_and_Holding_the_Charge|the SRD]], you can make touch attacks round after round. However, since they are melee attacks, you can't cast and then make more than one attack in the same round. But you should be able to cast and make one attack in round 1, then make your full number of attacks in round 2. [[User:Jazzman831|Jazz]][[User talk:Jazzman831|Man]] 15:44, 17 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::The spell itself says "You can use this melee touch attack up to one time per level." So my inclination would be a 15th level sorcerer could be slapping people for 15 consecutive "touches" and use only one spell. So you're limited by the number of melee attacks you can make in a single round, as Jazzman said. --[[User:Badger|Badger]] 17:53, 17 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::so it lasts until you use up all the hits? that seems a bit unba. should it have a duration of 1round/level to stop people from precasting it? [[User:Zau|Zau]] 22:42, 19 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Until you use up all the hits or you cast another spell, whichever comes first ([[SRD:Spell Descriptions#Touch Spells and Holding the Charge|ref]]). —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 21:09, 20 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::This seems GREAT, until you realize that you need your spellcaster in melee range. Bad move. The second issue is that it takes 2 attacks to provide a reliable -1 to the creature, meaning that there are better debuff spells out there. I suppose you could put this onto a mage hand somehow, but at that point, just throw a magic missile and be done with it.--[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 10:08, 24 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::look at the spell spectral hand (2nd level spell that lets you deliver touch spells at Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level) . this + spectral hand = pretty good--[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 15:35, 24 July 2010 (UTC)</div>Name Violationhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=SRD_Talk:Weapon_Qualities&diff=483143SRD Talk:Weapon Qualities2010-07-23T22:15:28Z<p>Name Violation: </p>
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<div>== 12-sided Dice ==<br />
What does a weapon increase (or decrease) to if it starts out dealing 2d12 damage? -- [[User:SAINT23THOMAS|saint23thomas]] -- 22:08, 23 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:2d12 becomes 6d6, or decreases to 2d10. the numbers work out if you increase/decrease each individual d12 as normal. but nothing (printed) does 2d12. why use such an awkward figure to begin with?--[[User:Name Violation|Name Violation]] 22:15, 23 July 2010 (UTC)</div>Name Violation