D&D Wiki - User contributions [en]

Blood Soldier (3.5e Prestige Class)

2007-06-26T11:22:50Z

David Latapie: /* Prerequisites */ Revert vandalism

<dplc>Blood Soldier (DnD Prestige Class)|{{PrC Description|Blood Soldier|NR|Bad Guy, Combat-Focused|Blood Soldier are evil, and they seek to earn a "better" place in their infernal afterlives. They will work for anyone to achieve this end goal, making sure they do not become a nobody in the netherworld.|5|5}}</dplc>
{{Balance}}
{{author|author_name=dmilewski|date_created=3/22/2006|status=Second Draft}}

=Blood Soldier=

The Cult of the Blood Soldier is a widespread but hidden cult of warriors. These men, who believe themselves to be evil, seek to earn a "better" place in their infernal afterlives. Rather than be devil's food, they have pre-enlisted in the infernal armies. They believe that when they die, they will fight forever in the eternal battles of the netherworld.

While living, blood soldiers seek to advance their military careers by serving cruel and terrible masters. The more terrible, the better. You frequently find blood soldiers acting as the bodyguards for [[wizard]]s and [[cleric]]s, acting as captains for warlords and blackguards, and sometimes acting on their own. There is only one truism about blood soldiers: they go where the action is.

As a blood soldier never knows where he must go, or what he must do, he must be trained to fight in many styles under many conditions. Blood soldiers must be able to fight and wrestle bare handed, fight with an weapon given to them, ride any creature given to them, and generally be effective in most situations.

Most blood soldiers are [[fighter]]s who have turned to evil. Some are [[barbarian]]s or other martial classes. A few are [[cleric]]s. Arcane classes have little interest in becoming blood soldiers.

==Prerequisites==
* '''Alignment:''' Any Evil
* '''Feats:''' [[Armor Proficiency (Light) (SRD Feat)|Armor Proficiency (Light)]], [[Armor Proficiency (Medium) (SRD Feat)|Armor Proficiency (Medium)]], [[Armor Proficiency (Heavy) (SRD Feat)|Armor Proficiency (Heavy)]], [[Improved Grapple]], [[Improved Shield Bash]], [[Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (SRD Feat)|Two-Weapon Fighting]], [[Improved Unarmed Strike]], [[Martial Weapon Proficiency]] (all martial weapons), [[Mounted Combat]], [[Shield Proficiency]], [[Tower Shield Proficiency]].
* '''Basic Attack Bonus:''' +5 or better
* '''Special:''' You must have served as a mercenary for an evil being, fighting for a cause that you did not believe in.

{| cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" class="d20"
|+ style="text-align: right;" | <div style="float: left;">Table: The Blood Soldier</div> Hit Die: d10
|-
! Level
! [[Base Attack Bonus (terminology)|Base Attack Bonus]]
! Fort Save
! Ref Save
! Will Save
! style="text-align: left;" | Special
|-
| 1st || +1 || +2|| +0|| +0|| style="text-align: left;" | Aura of Evil, Darkvision, Smite Good
|- class="even"
| 2nd || +2|| +3|| +0|| +0|| style="text-align: left;" | Energy Resistance (Fire) 5
|-
| 3rd || +3|| +3|| +1|| +1|| style="text-align: left;" | Energy Resistance (Cold) 5
|- class="even"
| 4th || +4|| +4|| +1|| +1|| style="text-align: left;" | DR 5/magic
|-
| 5th || +5|| +4|| +1|| +1|| style="text-align: left;" | [[Fiendish]] template
|-
| colspan="6" style="text-align: left; border: none;" |
'''Class Skills (2 + Int modifier per level)''' [[Climb (SRD Skill)|Climb]], [[Craft (SRD Skill)|Craft]], [[Handle Animal (SRD Skill)|Handle Animal]], [[Intimidate (SRD Skill)|Intimidate]], [[Jump (SRD Skill)|Jump]], [[Ride (SRD Skill)|Ride]], [[Swim (SRD Skill)|Swim]].
|}

==Class Features==

All the following are class features of the blood soldier:

'''Aura of Evil (Ex):''' The power of a blood soldier's aura of evil (see the ''[[Detect Evil (SRD Spell)|detect evil]]'' spell) is equal to her character level. Add Evil to the soldier's subtype. In addition, any [[celestial]] or [[fiend]] recognizes the blood soldier as a blood soldier and will treat them accordingly.

'''Darkvision (Ex):''' The blood soldier gains [[Darkvision]] out to 60 feet.

'''''Smite Good (Su):''''' Once per day the creature can make a normal melee attack to deal extra damage equal to its HD total (maximum of +20) against a good foe.

'''Resist Fire (Ex):''' The blood soldier gains Resistance (Fire) 5.

'''Resist Cold (Ex):''' The blood soldier gains Resistance (Cold) 5.

'''Damage Reduction (Ex):''' The blood soldier gains DR 5/magic.

'''Fiendish (Ex):''' The blood soldier has secured himself a place in the afterlife as a mercenary. The blood soldier gains the [[Fiendish]] template. Add [[Extraplanar]] to the soldier's subtype. The blood soldier gains [[Spell Resistance]] character level + 5. Use the character level when determining hit die based effects. Do not count the level adjustment of the template.

A blood soldier's [[Natural Weapons (SRD Special Ability)|natural weapons]], as well as any weapons they wield, are treated as evil-aligned and magic for the purpose of overcoming [[Damage Reduction (SRD Special Ability)|damage reduction]].

When a any blood soldier dies, his body and equipment are destroyed in a blazing hellfire. His soul and his equipment are immediately sent to the netherworld to join the infernal legions. Those who are not worthy are sold as devil's food. Those with five levels of blood soldier are found worthy and change their type to [[Outsider]]. As an [[Outsider]], the blood soldier is not affected by [[raise dead]] or [[resurrection]]. Outsider blood soldiers can be called or gated if you know their name. All blood soldiers have standing orders to never work without payment up-front.

----
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Talk:Cluster Soldier (3.5e Class)

2007-06-03T15:25:43Z

David Latapie: Excellent flavour

== My Own Take On This ==

At first glance, it looks fairly powerful for a base class. Here are some of the first things that jump out at me to make me think this:

1. d8 Hit Die
2. Average BAB progression
3. Two Good Save progressions
''4. 4 skill points per level''

I'm comparing this to a cleric. It has the same Hit Die, BAB, and saves (sort of, a cleric has Fort and Will, these guys have Fort and Refl). It has more skill points. I think the weapon proficiencies are about the same (more or less) as the cleric. The armour proficiency is a lot less than a cleric (and this is a balancing factor).

So, moving on...

I get the idea that a mercenary would want to be able to negotiate contracts with clients, however, the general feeling I'm getting from this class is not a Diplomat, but more of a platoon soldier. I'm not sure that pushing Charisma as an important ability is really the right thing. And other than some of the class skills, I don't see any use of Charisma with any of the special abilities granted by this class.

Which brings me to the class skill selection. I can understand why Diplomacy might be there. And ''maybe'' Gather Information. But I don't get why Perform is a class skill. Likewise, since these guys are "front line fighters" I don't really know why they have Hide and Move Silently as class skills either. It almost seemed like the class skills were selected based upon a "less-skilled" rogue as opposed to a "more-skilled" fighter. I think removing Gather Info, Perform, Hide, and Move Silently would be appropriate. Also, giving only 2 skill points per level seems more in line with how many class abilities these guys get.

On to Weapon Proficiencies. They get all light simple and light martial weapons. That makes sense. Then they get short spear, spear, and rapier; which I also get. Not sure why scimitar and scythe are in there. And the nunchaku and whip confuse me completely, especially since they are based upon a minimum intelligence score. This is a mercenary troop soldier, right? I think they should have ''all'' simple and light martial and leave it at that. Maybe throw in a pole arm of some sort (like the long spear).

The Armour proficiency seems alright, I get light armour only, but most soldiers would probably be trained in the use of shields. I would suggest adding shields (but not tower shields). This goes along with the concept of groups of them fighting together and even gives the possibility of using some of the shield based feats in some of the newer supplement books.

Now to the nitty-gritty of the class...the class special abilities!

''Teamwork:'' This is a great concept. I would change the mechanic slightly. As it stands, all you need is a 20th level cluster fighter with a team of 1st level cluster soldiers and all of them in the group get a +6 (untyped) bonus to their attacks. I think that the idea is that the cluster soldier gets "pumped up" from having his buddies along with him (and they from him) so I would write it something like this:

'''Teamwork (Ex)''': A Cluster Soldier gets a +1 morale bonus to all attack rolls for every other Cluster Soldier that is conscious and fighting within 30 feet of him to a maximum of +1. This maximum increases as follows: +2 at 5th, +3 at 9th, +4 at 13th, and +5 at 17th. The Cluster Soldier must have line of sight and line of effect to each other Cluster Soldier within range to count them for the bonus.

''Attached:'' Again, this is a great concept. I would alter slightly how it is written again.

'''Attached: (Su)''': A Cluster Soldier separated from other Cluster Soldiers can form a bond with an ally or close friend. The Cluster Soldier chooses a willing ally with which he forms the attachment. The Cluster Soldier and the ally must spend three days together in close proximity (not more than 1000 feet away from each other). After three days, the ally counts as a Cluster Soldier for the purpose of determining the bonuses from Teamwork, Support, Dual Charge, Empathic Link, and other class abilities of the Cluster Soldier. The attached ally receives half of any bonus (round down, minimum +1) the Cluster Soldier receives. If the ally drops unconscious, the bonuses are temporarily lost until the ally regains consciousness. If the ally dies or spends more than 24-hours out of contact with the Cluster Soldier, the bonuses are lost until the attachment is reformed (taking three days).

''Support:'' I'd change just like I did Teamwork but possibly tone down the AC bonus.

'''Support (Ex)''': A Cluster Soldier gets a +1 dodge bonus to AC for every other Cluster Soldier that is conscious and fighting withing 30 feet of him to a maximum of +1. This bonus is lost whenever the Cluster Soldier would be denied his dexterity bonus to AC (like when flat-footed or attacked by an unseen attacker). The maximum bonus increases as follows: +2 at 5th, +3 at 10th, +4 at 15th, and +5 at 20th. The Cluster Soldier must have line of sight (and line of effect) to each other Cluster Soldier within range to count them for the bonus.

''Empathic Link:'' I like the idea of this, however, the way it is written, it wouldn't give him any benefit with other Cluster Soldiers, only with an attached Ally. I would change it to apply to other Cluster Soldiers and then the attached ally would get the benefit as appropriate.

'''Empathic Link (Su)''': When a Cluster Soldier reaches 8th level he awakens the ability to read the emotions of the other Cluster Soldiers within 30 feet of him getting a general sense of their feelings. This allows a Cluster Soldier to retain the benefits of class abilities (like Teamwork, Support, Dual Charge, etc) even when he doesn't have line of sight to the other Cluster Soldiers. The Cluster Soldier gains a +1 morale bonus to Will saves against fear effects as long as there is another Cluster Soldier (or an attached ally) within 30 feet. Something that would block line of effect will also block this ability.

''Stronger Support:'' is pretty good, but the AC bump has already been handled in my rewrite. So I've changed the focus slightly.

'''Stronger Support (Su)''': At 9th level, a Cluster Soldier gains a +2 morale bonus to all Will saves while in battle as long as another Cluster Soldier is within the range of the Empathic Link ability.

''Fearless'' is very appropriate, with one small tweak.

'''Fearless (Su)''': A Cluster Soldier is immue to all fear effects as long as another Cluster Soldier is within the range of the Empathis Link ability. An attached ally gains this benefit as well.

''Powerful Support'' is an interesting ability. Since I've already handled the AC bump previously, I'm not sure what to do with it. But I might suggest this.

'''Powerful Support (Su)''': At 12th level, a Cluster Soldier gains a +2 morale bonus to Fortitude saves while in battle as long as another Cluster Soldier is within the range of the Empathic Link ability.

I want to add in an ability as well.

'''Greater Empathy (Su)''': At 13th level, the range of a Cluster Soldiers Empathic Link increases to 60 feet.

''Dual Charge:'' I like this ability and I want to incorporate it, however, I'm concerned about the multiplier to damage listed. I think it at least needs to be clarified.

'''Dual Charge (Ex)''': A Cluster Soldier can delay his initiative to charge with one other Cluster Soldier. There must be a clear path for both Soldiers to charge side by side. A single attack roll is made and the better attack modifier of the two is used to determine if the attack hits. If it does hit, each Soldier rolls damage as if he had struck a critical hit (even if the target is immune to critical hits) and then add the damage up to a single total. This damage is considered to be from a single source (so damage reduction is applied only to the total). If the attack roll would be a critical hit, increase the multiplier appropriately (see the rules for multiplying multipliers in PHB). This ability can only be used once per combat encounter.

''Huge Sense of Loss'' is an ability that reminds me of a barbarians rage ability, but much more reckless and much less balanced. A -4 to AC with a +8 untyped attack bonus is really severe. So I would tone it down a bit.

'''Huge Sense of Loss (Su)''': Upon attaining 18th level, the Empathic Link of a Cluster Soldier grows more intense. Whenever a Cluster Soldier within the range of the Empathic Link ability falls in combat (drops to -1 or lower hit points), the Cluster Soldier gains the effects of the [[SRD:Rage (Spell)|Rage]]. This lasts for a number of rounds equal to one-half of the Cluster Soldiers class level or until the encounter is over. If the fallen ally is cured and rejoins combat, the effects of this ability end as soon as that ally comes within the range of the Empathic Link ability.

''Mental Link:'' I think that an ability like this should allow communication over "great distances" but rather be focused more on the combat aspect.

'''Mental Link (Su)''': At 19th level, the Cluster Soldier can communicate telepathically with any other Cluster Soldier within range of the Empathic Link ability during a battle. The two Cluster Soldiers must share a language to communicate in this fashion. This ability allows the Cluster Soldier to communicate with lower level Cluster Soldiers, but does not allow the lower level Soldiers to communicate among themselves.

''Unbreakable Support'' should be the culmination of the class abilities. The amount of bonus from Teamwork and Support is already factored, but I like the change of the bonus type. I think the "can't be flat-footed" comes a bit late in the game and perhaps that should be included in a previous ability. I think a better choice would be "can't be flanked" since that would be in line with a character of 20th level. Here's my first shot at it.

'''Unbreakable Support (Su)''': At 20th level, the Cluster Soldier has mastered the battle field with his allies. The bonus to attack from Teamwork becomes an insight bonus (instead of a morale bonus). The bonus to AC from Support becomes an insight bonus (instead of a dodge bonus). The Cluster Solider cannot be flanked as long as there is another Cluster Soldier within the range of the Empathic Link ability. Also, the Cluster Soldier gains a +2 insight bonus to Reflex saves while in battle as long as ther is another Cluster Soldier within the range of the Empathic Link ability.

*WHEW!!!* That turned into much more than I had originally planned. But I enjoyed it. Hopefully some of my suggestions have merit. I like the concept of this class and I'd like to see it balanced out more. Any suggestions to my suggestions would be greatlly appreciated.
--[[User:Skwyd|Skwyd]] 11:28, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

:Would you like to adopt/fix this? I can see it needs some work, and I cannot think of a better candidate ''':)'''. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 18:14, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

::I'd love to take over on this class. I didn't want to "step on any toes" since I'm new around here. Also, I was hoping to get some feedback on my ideas before I go in and start hacking up this class!!--[[User:Skwyd|Skwyd]] 21:25, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

:::Many of your suggestions seem quite insightful, and--for the most part--I agree. (There are only a couple of minor points to discuss, but the class needs a big overhaul before we even start to address them.) I'd encourage you to make your changes, and then we can start to fine-tune the class. –[[User:EldritchNumen|EldritchNumen]] 16:30, 17 April 2007 (MDT)

:::: Okay, I've posted my first shot at a revision. I'm still learning a bit about formatting here. I can't figure out how to get the last line on the right side of the table. Also, the original page listed an author and stated that the class is "finished". Am I supposed to indicate my revisions? If so, how would I format that? I guess there is probably a page somewhere that talks about these things, but I'm at work right now and I really need to get back to work. :P --[[User:Skwyd|Skwyd]] 11:29, 18 April 2007 (MDT)

:::::All the formatting problems should now be fixed. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:16, 18 April 2007 (MDT)

== Excellent flavour ==

I can't comment on game balance, but I would give a 9 for flavour. I don't know how the game rating is done, so consider this my participation for the flavour part. I actually am creating a similar class for Lone Wolf RPG, the Star of the White Mountain. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 09:25, 3 June 2007 (MDT)

User talk:Green Dragon

2007-05-31T08:39:42Z

David Latapie: /* Created my Wiki */

{{Messages of Interest|messages=
{{MoI-Row
|page=User_talk:Dmilewski
|section=Neutral Alignment Category(ies)
|notifier=Sledged
|date_time=12:13, 26 May 2007 (MDT)
}}
{{MoI-Row
|page=Elven_High_Mage_(WotC_DnD_Prestige_Class)
|section=
|notifier=Green Dragon
|date_time=11:11, 26 May 2007 (MDT)
}}
{{MoI-Row
|page=Talk:Druid_(Evaluational_Base_Class_Layout)/Ready_to_Begin?
|section=Final Call on Voting and Discussions
|notifier=Sledged
|date_time=11:09, 23 May 2007 (MDT)
}}
{{MoI-Row
|page=Combat_School_(DnD_Variant_Rules)
|section=
|notifier=Green Dragon
|date_time=23:57, 21 May 2007 (MDT)
}}
{{MoI-Row
|page=dndmedia:Image:Hp_news.png
|section=
|notifier=Blue Dragon
|date_time=15:59, 18 May 2007 (MDT)
}}
{{MoI-Row
|page=SRD_Talk:Feint_(Rules)
|section=Links
|notifier=Armond
|date_time=14:35, 17 May 2007 (MDT)
}}
{{MoI-Row
|page=Talk:Firearm_Sniper_(DnD_General_and_Fighter_Feat)
|section=Copyright Issues?
|notifier=Dmilewski
|date_time=06:20, 15 May 2007 (MDT)
}}
{{MoI-Row
|page=MediaWiki:Sharedupload
|section=
|notifier=Green Dragon
|date_time=23:01, 14 May 2007 (MDT)
}}
{{MoI-Row
|page=Talk:Gaea's_Skyfolk_(DnD_Race)
|section=
|notifier=Green Dragon
|date_time=22:17, 14 May 2007 (MDT)
}}
{{MoI-Row
|page=Talk:Table:_Creature_Size_and_Scale
|section=
|notifier=Sledged
|date_time=10:40, 14 May 2007 (MDT)
}}
{{MoI-Row
|page=Talk:Worldgate_(DnD_Campaign_Setting)
|section=Converted files in Races missing characters
|notifier=Blue Dragon
|date_time=18:01, 13 May 2007 (MDT)
}}
{{MoI-Row
|page=dndmedia:D&D_Wiki_Media_talk:Copyrights
|section=Image documentation
|notifier=Cuthalion
|date_time=14:11, 11 May 2007 (MDT)
}}
{{MoI-Row
|page=Kamehameha_(DnD_Spell)
|section=
|notifier=Green Dragon
|date_time=22:55, 10 May 2007 (MDT)
}}
{{MoI-Row
|page=Talk:Main_Page
|section=MediaWiki updated
|notifier=Blue Dragon
|date_time=13:32, 9 May 2007 (MDT)
}}
{{MoI-Row
|page=Ultimate_Barbarian_(DnD_Class)
|section=
|notifier=Green Dragon
|date_time=09:49, 8 May 2007 (MDT)
}}
{{MoI-Row
|page=dndmedia:Talk:Main_Page
|section= Categories & templates
|notifier=Cuthalion
|date_time=22:26, 6 May 2007 (MDT)
}}
{{MoI-Row
|page=Talk:Aertai_(DnD_Creature)
|section="Aertai as Characters"
|notifier=Green Dragon
|date_time=15:21, 21 April 2007 (MDT)
}}
{{MoI-Row
|page=Talk:Worldgate (DnD Campaign Setting)
|section=PDF on D&D Wiki?
|notifier=Ra-Tiel
|date_time=00:44, 13 April 2007 (MDT)
}}
}}

{{Archives
|label1= Archive 1 (Discussions 1 – 30)
|label2= Archive 2 (Discussions 31 – 60)
|label3= Archive 3 (Discussions 61 – 90)
|label4= Archive 4 (Discussions 91 – 120)
|label5= Archive 5 (Discussions 121 – 150)
}}

== Thanks ==

I hope to contribute some ideas... but we'll see. Is there any sort of page that could help me with editing the Wiki? (As in commands or formatting?) I'll put in what I can and I must say a D&D Wiki is an awesome idea!

Sincerely, [[User:Seraphim Rush|Seraphim Rush]] 21:50, 20 April 2007

:There are many pages that help with formatted, however D&D Wiki has none of them. Since this site operates like Wikipedia the same commands are used, etc. A good page to start with is [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Editing this]. If you have any other formatting areas you want to learn more in (Images, Namespaces, Templates, etc) please tell me and I will supply another link to help you out. Also, I am glad you like D&D Wiki ''':)''' and welcome again. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 15:16, 21 April 2007 (MDT)

== Barnstar ==

{{Barnstar|I give you this [[Barnstar]] for providing a site that is for d20 and d20 Modern both an outlet ideas, and a source of new material. You're not just the owner of the site, but an active contributer, as well. Not content to sit back and let others do all the work, you add new material, prompt users into discussions, edit pages to conform to layout standards, and many other smaller task that, though alone seem minor, contribute to this site's overall quality. As regular patron of this site, I thank you. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 17:38, 21 April 2007 (MDT)}}

Been waiting a while to do this. If only I had known earlier I that anyone could give barnstars. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 17:38, 21 April 2007 (MDT)

:Thanks a lot! Sorry for not having it say somewhere that anyone can give barnstars... Anyway, thanks again! --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:02, 22 April 2007 (MDT)

== Delete My Page Please ==

I was told by Sledge that my class isn't permitted to be posted because it is not Open Game Content. Could you please delete my work if it is? --[[User:Gob|Gob]] 20:26, 22 April 2007 (MDT)

:I would normally be more than happy to just delete it, however the best way to go about deleting pages is by using [[Candidates for Deletion]] as that is what it was made for. If you do not want to go through that process I would be more than happy to just delete it, however please tell me what you decide. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 16:43, 23 April 2007 (MDT)

::Oh well, I just deleted it without [[Candidates for Deletion]]. Sorry that it could not be on this site and I hope you decide to add some homebrew content still ''':)'''. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:45, 24 April 2007 (MDT)

== New Base Class ==

Okay... apparently, I logged out when I wasn't watching and I created the class "Moon Scythe". Perhaps I wasn't paying attention, but it is a contribution of mine... is there any way to have that listed? --[[User:Seraphim Rush|Seraphim Rush]] 01:00, 23 April 2007 (MDT)

:Right now you are using the best way to show it is your work, with [[Template:Author]]. Other than that there is no way (One cannot change the history to say it was not added by an IP). Sorry however with [[Template:Author]] it should be known who's work the Moon Scythe really is. Hope this helps. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 16:40, 23 April 2007 (MDT)

== Carbonized attitude ==

GD: Thanks for the MoI. I had seen [[Talk:Steel, Carbonized (DnD Equipment)|the comment]], but didn't think it deserved a response.
#This is obviously a fantasy material with fantasy properties.
#The writer seems more interested in spouting off than offering constructive criticism, so I feel no obligation to reply.
–[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] ([[User talk:Cuthalion|talk]]) 20:56, 24 April 2007 (MDT)

:Oh, I just wanted to make sure you has seen it as it is your item. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 21:31, 24 April 2007 (MDT)

::I understand. Thanks. –[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] ([[User talk:Cuthalion|talk]]) 07:47, 25 April 2007 (MDT)

== br verses blank lines ==

Next time, if you'd like me to change something on my user page, could you please ask me? I use br tags for a few reasons, and I don't understand why they're un-wikiish. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Editing#Most_frequent_wiki_markup_explained Wikipedia's help page] describes how to use them, so even though they're not wiki coding I tend to see them as acceptable. Thanks. [[User:Armond|Armond]] 14:48, 27 April 2007 (MDT)

:Sure. The reason I used blank lines instead of br's is because they are HTML and, even though wikis support HTML, are not wiki-code. Anyway, if you ant to revert my edit just use the history and everythig should work out (edit the revision before mine). Anyway, sorry again. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 16:53, 27 April 2007 (MDT)

== New user message ==

GD: That message which greets each new user on their talk page, is that automated? How do you do that? Thanks. –[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] ([[User talk:Cuthalion|talk]]) 20:55, 29 April 2007 (MDT)

:It's not automated, sorry. I just manually copy and paste it there each time. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 10:46, 30 April 2007 (MDT)

::Oh, how frightfully low-tech. Thanks, anyway. –[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] ([[User talk:Cuthalion|talk]]) 11:50, 30 April 2007 (MDT)

:::Yup ''':)''' --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:34, 30 April 2007 (MDT)

== Question? ==

I have been working with the base class "Valkyrie" and I have done all of the work to make it into what it is. I was wondering if it would be alright to take the credit for doing that, as a different author came up with the class idea, but I actually gave it its whole description, class table, abilties etc...

Basically, they came up with the name.

Thought I'd ask and see if it was all right, rather than just change it.

--[[User:Seraphim Rush|Seraphim Rush]] 21:07, 29 April 2007 (MDT)

:Better now? I got rid of [[Template:Author]] and replaced it with [[Template:Adopted Article]] with you as the adopter. Also, I put OldRiginas name down with "''Basic idea presented by:''". Is this still too much credit for him? What do you think? Also, you need to fill out the status on the Valkyrie's [[Template:Adopted Article]]... --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 10:39, 30 April 2007 (MDT)

::That is brilliant. Thank you. I do think it is too much credit, but I will let them have at least a little bit, after all they did spark my interest in even making the class ^^ Will do, and thanks again. --[[User:Seraphim Rush|Seraphim Rush]] 17:37, 30 April 2007 (MDT)

:::What if the re-wording was changed to something like ''Article Creation By:'', ''Basic Creation By:'', or ''Sparker of Interest for Adopter By:''? Do you think any of these would be better? Do you have any ideas of your own of what a good thing to say would be? I don't want to give too much credit where it is not deserved... --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 18:25, 30 April 2007 (MDT)

::::I like the idea of "Adopted Article the best. Personally I think it is a good choice to leave that as is. It is a great idea. --[[User:Seraphim Rush|Seraphim Rush]] 23:11, 30 April 2007 (MDT)

:::::Wait, new idea. How about "''This article, as a stub, was added by:''"? Does that or the ''Sparker of Interest for Adopter By:'' sound better? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:16, 1 May 2007 (MDT)

::::::Hmm... or perhaps "''This article, as a stub, was completed by:''". Though I must still say your original idea "''Basic idea presented by:''" along with the [[Template:Adopted Article]]. I think it would be best to stik with your original it was good to go with ^^ --[[User:Seraphim Rush|Seraphim Rush]] 23:24, 1 May 2007 (MDT)

:::::::Sounds good. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:22, 2 May 2007 (MDT)

== Awkward question ==

As you might remember, I was [http://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Special:DoubleRedirects&limit=500 working on a project] for a while before locked pages became a pretty huge problem. It got quite annoying to try to fix a link only to find that it was on a locked page. So, plunging right into the awkward question, I was wondering if I could be made a sort of a "temporary admin" for just long enough to fix those, and then reverted back to a normal user. If not, not - I'll go back to fixing them (I think I've stayed away from them for long enough to not implode on the next locked page I find...) and leave a list of protected redirects somewhere for the current sysops to deal with. Thanks. [[User:Armond|Armond]] 14:22, 30 April 2007 (MDT)

:Sure. I give you this privilege under a couple of conditions.
:#Work quickly — I do not want to see you abuse your privileges when they were not given by the community via [[RfA]].
:#fix ''all'' the redirects, please.
:#Do not edit any locked page not affiliated with double redirect, again I would not want to see you abuse your privileges when they were not given by the community via [[RfA]]...
:Under these conditions I grant you sysop status. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 15:14, 30 April 2007 (MDT)

::Everything you say is quite agreeable and understandable - of course I will do so. Will do my best to have everything done before the end of tomorrow. Thanks bunches. [[User:Armond|Armond]] 15:16, 30 April 2007 (MDT)

:::Actually, that took a lot less time than I thought. If I can get online tonight, I should be able to finish them all by tomorrow morning. [[User:Armond|Armond]] 16:11, 30 April 2007 (MDT)

::::Sounds good ''':)'''. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 16:45, 30 April 2007 (MDT)

:::::Got that out of the way. Heh. Threw some delete tags on things with misspelled names and such, but the very last one (retorative ointment) bugged the double redirects page, so I had to delete it. Left the properly spelled one with the redirect, though. De-admin me when you get a chance ''':)''' Thanks! [[User:Armond|Armond]] 17:47, 30 April 2007 (MDT)

::::::Done. Thanks a lot for fixing all the redirects ''':)'''. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 18:14, 30 April 2007 (MDT)

:::::::Oh no.... I just realized... I forgot to turn off the option that adds pages I edit to my watchlist. Oh, man, clearing that lot out is going to be fun... Especially since I think it's done that for every redirect I've ever changed... >.< [[User:Armond|Armond]] 11:13, 2 May 2007 (MDT)

::::::::At least they don't get changed too often ''':)'''. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:33, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

== Hullo there ==

Hullo there! I noticed you editing my class-in-progress. Just wanted to say "hi". Later mate. -Tim {{Unsigned|75.153.172.237|19:19, 30 April 2007 (MDT)}}

:Hello as well. I don't really see any need to contact you, wiki's (with discussion, etc) work just fine for me ''':)'''. However, good job on the class you are adding so far and if you need any help please feel free to contact me (via discussion or email — found on my user-page). Anyway, welcome to D&D Wiki and as a side comment I would recommend you login/create an account here so people know what you edit, know what you add, and know where to give credit when due. Anyway, welcome again! --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:24, 30 April 2007 (MDT)

::Thanks mate. I love this site! I use it quite often as a reference. ''':)''' -Tim [[User:75.153.172.237|75.153.172.237]] 20:28, 30 April 2007 (MDT)

:::Glad to hear it and I hope some of the homebrew content has made a good impression in your campaign that you are either in or running. Anyway, glad you like the site. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:30, 30 April 2007 (MDT)

== An idea? ==

There are a considerable amount of "Index" files that would allow players a quick reference to many of the aspects of D&D such as feats and races. I dunno, it might be a good idea to use, it might not. Either way, it can be found here: http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20 . I thought it could be a useful thing for the D&D wiki to have access to. {{Unsigned|Seraphim Rush|22:18, 30 April 2007 (MDT)}}

:This is really cool! Check out the indices for feats. –[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] ([[User talk:Cuthalion|talk]]) 07:36, 1 May 2007 (MDT)

::You might want to ask this question to Dmilewski as he runs the SRD... --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 10:39, 2 May 2007 (MDT)

:::This isn't anything that involves the [[SRD]]. This stuff can be included in the DnD section (or even have its own section). The more I edit NPCs like [[Aelan Mooneye (DnD NPC)]], the better the idea sounds. That page has a crap-load of spells, feats, classes, magic items & artifacts, creatures, and subtypes that are referenced from non-OGC materials. I wouldn't mind seeing each one having it's own page giving a brief description of the item in question (as much as allowed without breaking copyright laws), and detailed information of what source(s) in which it can be found, [[Elven High Mage (WotC DnD Prestige Class)|like so]]. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 12:17, 18 May 2007 (MDT)

== SRD? ==

does the open gaming licence only allow the basics, or can anything from any book go into SRD? i have a few books that arent listed, and i was wondering if it was legal to have them added to our SRD. ==[[User:Alabastor|Alabastor]] 08:28, 2 May 2007 (MDT)

: ''Check the inside front of the books (on the page with the copyright information). If it reads, "None of the content in this book is Open Game Content" then you can't add anything.'' —[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]]; regurgitated by [[User:Sledged|Sledged]]

: And though the SRD is Open Game Content, not all OGC is part of the SRD (like Unearthed Arcana and parts of the Monster Manual II). The SRD is just the basics. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 09:13, 2 May 2007 (MDT)

::Sledged couldn't have explained it better. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:32, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

== Lost a Page ==

So I was working on a prestige class, the Harmful Hand Adept. It seems to have disappeared. If you click here[http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/User_Prestige_Classes_with_Descriptions#h|here] you'll notice that the "Allashane Fighting Style Adept" (which is the old name I used for the class) is filed under "H", where the Harmful Hand Adept used to be. I can't seem to find the class using the "search" feature either. Any suggestions? -[[User:Othtim|Othtim]] 04:18, 3 May 2007 (MDT)

:Fixed. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 09:48, 3 May 2007 (MDT)

::Sorry about that. When I moved the page I forgot to change the categories... Sorry. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 15:14, 3 May 2007 (MDT)

== You Suck!!! ==

Why the hell haven't you changed this ''(censored)'' logo yet?!?! C'mon, get with the ''(censored)'' picture!!! {{Unsigned|Great Wyrm Black Dragon|2007-05-05 13:14:03}}

:How...pleasant of you. -- [[User:Flession|Flession]] 14:25, 5 May 2007 (MDT)

::I'll just quote Green Dragon:

::''If you would like to work on a better logo by all means please work on one. Once you have uploaded it the community will review it and see if it is better than the current one, and if it is it will replace it.''

::Also, if you know someone who's a professional graphic designer and their willing to donate a potential new logo, send them this way.

::To answer your question, no one has submitted an alternative logo that the community likes better than the current one. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 14:45, 5 May 2007 (MDT)

:::This brings me to a question... What should we do about swearing on D&D Wiki? Should it really be censored? It is their words after all... Please give any and all ideas you may have on this subject, thanks. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 17:13, 6 May 2007 (MDT)

:::: Unless it is seriously abused, I don't think censorship of profanity is really needed. There's hardly a issue with it, and I trust that when a rare incident does occur like this one, the admin can take care of it. -- [[User:Flession|Flession]] 13:53, 7 May 2007 (MDT)

::::: I feel that profanity used in an abusive manner warrants being censored. It's all about the context. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 14:06, 7 May 2007 (MDT)

::::::I think the policy (not written in stone) should be that if the profanity is directed at someone it should be censored. So, If one says "Green Dragon is an " the  should be removed, however if one says "Green Dragons last edit is " the profanity would not be removed. Does this sound acceptable? To strict? To lenient? Please give some input. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 15:47, 15 May 2007 (MDT)

:::::::I believe that all profanity should be removed from the site as soon as is possible. There are many, many reasons for this. Having children idly browsing the site, being watched by their parents, and then having their parents notice a swear word, will cause this site to be removed from the child's access. It can not possibly add anything to the content that this website is bringing. Consider it to this: Racist terms are "people's words", but they should not be allowed because they are offensive. The same applies with swear words. We want this to be a website were anybody can edit, but even more importantly '''anybody can view'''. It will be blocked from schools, by parents, and by content filters if it contains swear words. I vote, remove them as soon as they appear, and let the user know that this website is about information, not an outlet for profanity. — [[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] ([[User_talk:Blue Dragon|talk]]) 18:42, 15 May 2007 (MDT)

::::::::I agree with that - a couple other places I visit have been blocked only for that reason. Given that, I've put GD's profanity in comment brackets (hope you don't mind). By the way, GD, you said we should "remove the a--", which, if one called you said a--, would mean we would remove you ''':)''' Should we do that? --[[User:Armond|Armond]] ([[User talk:Armond|talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Armond|contribs]]) 15:10, 16 May 2007 (MDT)

If every "vulgarity" in the common sense is to be censored, so should any and all demeaning words...such as dumb, retarded, stupid, ugly. Positive ''(censored)'' should only be used and never negative. If you substitute freak with ''(censored)'', it's used in the exact same context and shouldn't be used. Gosh is used in substitute of god, so it should be banned. Crap should. Poop, dang, dagnabbit, sun of a gun...they all symbolize the same. If you are to remove one, then remove all. I understand the position against racist ''(censored)'' like ''(censored)'' and ''(censored)'', or sexist ''(censored)'' like ''(censored)'' or ''(censored)'', or bigoted ''(censored)'' like making fun of someone cuz of their religion, but never the case against ''(censored)''. same with ''(censored)'', ''(censored)'', ''(censored)'', ''(censored)''. And if you're going to ban words like god, then you might as well only allow religious people on this site. {{Unsigned|Great Wyrm Black Dragon|2007-05-16 20:06}}

:How about this: We censor all that can reasonably be considered offensive - I'll give a short list and you can figure it out from there. --[[User:Armond|Armond]] ([[User talk:Armond|talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Armond|contribs]]) 20:39, 16 May 2007 (MDT)

== clean up of my article pianura dei draghi ==

hi i see the communication of clean up you can help me please? i don't know what i can do hi --[[User:Luigiliuba|Luigiliuba]] 09:28, 7 May 2007 (MDT)

:I will remove it because I cannot help you format it (I do not speak your native language). Also, formatting CS's is not that big of a deal, so don't worry to much about it... --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:34, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

== A requested bit of Input. ==

Sorry to bother you, but I have a request to make: I've noticed you do quite a bit of balance ratings and suggestions, and I was wondering if you might could give me your input on my only finished race so far. [[Shadowkin (DnD Race)]] Thanks!
[[User:Nighteye|Nighteye]] 20:47, 7 May 2007 (MDT)

:Done. I may have been a bit rude, and sorry in advance. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:16, 7 May 2007 (MDT)

== Spellcasting Powerhouse Update ==

I have made some updates to the Spellcasting Powerhouse optimization. It introduces the Ultimate Magus PrC from The Complete Mage that allows a character to advance in prepared AND spontaneous arcane casting classes. Practiced spell caster can be taken for multiple casting classes. Combine this with the Wild Mages ability to increase the power of spells and the fact that the Ultimate Magus class plus Practiced Spellcaster gets you up to speed on spells per day and what level spells you cast and you get the true spell casting powerhouse. My DM is going to be running The Cult of Yex, a 1-20 campaign and I am running a character under this build. I couldn't have done it without your original Wild Mage idea! {{Unsigned|Gworranet|18:38, 8 May 2007 (MDT)}}

:I'll take credit where due, however I did not help in this optimization... Could you please explain what is going on? Did you get me mixed up with a different user? I am confused... --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:31, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

::Off-hand, I'd say (A) the [[Spellcasting Powerhouse (DnD Character Optimization)]] doesn't specify an author, and (B) it's your site, therefore Gworranet attributes the build to you. If you can't take credit for the build, take credit for giving the original author a place to publish it. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 22:40, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

== What is LA? ==

I've never heard of level adjustment before. I suppose that it would be the same as a basic elf.

And pardon any mistakes Wiki wise i'm rather new to the format. {{Unsigned|Fenrir|06:17, 15 May 2007 (MDT)}}

:Wow, coincidence. I just recently answered this exact same question yesterday, see [[Talk:Shæné (DnD Race)#LA?|Talk:Shæné]]. If you still have a question about how LA works, please fell free to ask me your question here. Thanks, and I hope this helps. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 15:41, 15 May 2007 (MDT)

== SRD?? ==

I have it in "Hammer and Helm: A Guidebook to Dwarves" published by Green Ronin Publishingas part of the racs of renown series. --[[User:71.219.137.212|71.219.137.212]] 14:46, 19 May 2007 (MDT)

:I have answered on [[Talk:Ironbound (Prestige Class)]]. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 10:56, 21 May 2007 (MDT)

== Greetings ==

Hey, thank's for the note. I'm an age old player of D&D, starting nearly fifteen years ago, at the age of five, when I came into my babysitter's campaign. No joke. As for editing dandwiki, I have, over the years, accumulated a slew of homebrew rules, tasks, classes... one I've started posting on here, which will probably take a while to finish, is the Elementalist, who's unique spell list i have begun to post (ill be finishing that tonight), as well as the class. As for contributing, I'll probably try an hour or two a week. I'm only half-decent with wiki formatting, so ill be looking t other pages to get an idea of different formats, fonts, etc. Also for some reason my user name and signature don't match up... it's Macarisil Moonash but appears as Marrin (see below)
[[User:Macarisil Moonash|Marrin]] 08:47, 23 May 2007 (MDT)

:Greetings again. Anyway, to fix our signature go to "my preferences" (top right corner of the screen) and once that page loads remove all content from the "Nickname" field. This should solve your problem. Also I am glad you are adding things, keep it up! I will help you format your class and spell list as time permits, if they need to be formatted. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 14:56, 23 May 2007 (MDT)

==Campaign setting==

:''Discussion moved to [[User talk:Mobius/EaA#Move]].''

== Searching ==

Hi GD,
not sure where to ask this, but is the search facility working for you? I tried searching "dog" and all I get is could not find message. Couldn't search for this page either. Can you look in on it? --[[User:Pwsnafu|Pwsnafu]] 17:44, 29 May 2007 (MDT)

:A couple things... Since the upgrade of MediaWiki to the newest version [[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] has not yet been able to re-implement the old search (It was called lucine, I believe) that was better than the standard search. The reason the "dog" search did, and will not, work is because the standard search does not allow searches three letters or less. For any search that is three letters or less it automatically not perform the search and will give no results. I do not know why searching for "User talk:Green Dragon" did not work, however maybe you spelled something wrong... Finally, and I would be very happy if you did this, if you contact Blue Dragon and tell him you want the old search back he will most likely work on it sooner. So, please contact Blue Dragon and lets get lucine back up and running ''':)'''. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:41, 29 May 2007 (MDT)

== FreeDoc Barnstar ==

{{FreeDoc Barnstar|I give you the FreeDoc Barnstar for adding the Netbook of Feats to the DnD Wiki.--[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 14:45, 30 May 2007 (MDT)}}
You never got a barnstar for you terrific efforts with the Netbook of Feats. Now that I'm straightening out the Feat categories, I find that we have 1,400 feats! Of those, 1/3 are from the NBoF. So, for that mountain of work, I give you this barnstar. --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 14:45, 30 May 2007 (MDT)

== Thanks ==

Hello Sulacu, and welcome to D&D Wiki! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like D&D Wiki and decide to stay. I am the owner of the site, and if you have a question feel free to ask me, however when contacting anyone on D&D Wiki through talk pages please sign your name using four tildes <nowiki>(~~~~)</nowiki>; this will automatically produce your name and the date. Also, if you want to help D&D Wiki but just don't know how [http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=User_talk:Green_Dragon&action=edit&section=new drop me a note] and I'll see what I can do. However, when dropping me a note please tell me how much time you would like to spend working, how well you know the Wiki Format, and how well you know D&D. I hope you enjoy editing here and being a D&D Wikian! If you need help ask me on my talk page, or just right here. Again, welcome! --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 17:30, 30 May 2007 (MDT)

:Hello Green Dragon, Thanks for the welcome. My contributions are usually the result of creativity, and there are times that I feel more inclined and less inclined to be creative. I would consider my knowledge of D&D to be fair, although reasonably non-specific (I own no more than 10 books), and I have been learning to use the Wiki Format by doing, mostly, by submitting some of my recent - and less recent - works here to be scrutinized by anyone who's interested. If I can profess to be busy with anything at the moment, it's with a bestiary of sorts, maybe to help me gain skill in building monsters. If there's any help I need right now it's something quite specific. CR is something that occasionally still drives me up the hills. Otherwise, I'll be delighted to just keep learning by doing. If there are other ways I can help with anything, I might have some free time... Greetings, --[[User:Sulacu|Sulacu]] 17:38, 30 May 2007 (MDT)

== Created my Wiki ==

Hi Green Dragon,

* As I said earlier, I created my wiki. [http://s205755332.onlinehome.fr/mediawiki/ Temporary addess].
* I installed the ''Google Extension'' ([http://s205755332.onlinehome.fr/mediawiki/index.php?title=SoP:Google_test page])
* Any idea on how to have an add in every page, without manually adding it?

Thank you. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 20:21, 30 May 2007 (MDT)

:Do you want the Google search to be available on every page? If so an extension that changes the standard mediawiki search into a google search does exist... Is that what you are looking for? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 21:25, 30 May 2007 (MDT)

:::Sorry, typo. I meant an ad (one “d”), advertisement [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 02:39, 31 May 2007 (MDT)

User talk:Green Dragon

2007-05-31T02:22:05Z

David Latapie: /* Created my Wiki */

User talk:Green Dragon

2007-05-31T02:21:21Z

David Latapie: Created my Wiki

{{Messages of Interest|messages=
{{MoI-Row
|page=User_talk:Dmilewski
|section=Neutral Alignment Category(ies)
|notifier=Sledged
|date_time=12:13, 26 May 2007 (MDT)
}}
{{MoI-Row
|page=Elven_High_Mage_(WotC_DnD_Prestige_Class)
|section=
|notifier=Green Dragon
|date_time=11:11, 26 May 2007 (MDT)
}}
{{MoI-Row
|page=Talk:Druid_(Evaluational_Base_Class_Layout)/Ready_to_Begin?
|section=Final Call on Voting and Discussions
|notifier=Sledged
|date_time=11:09, 23 May 2007 (MDT)
}}
{{MoI-Row
|page=Combat_School_(DnD_Variant_Rules)
|section=
|notifier=Green Dragon
|date_time=23:57, 21 May 2007 (MDT)
}}
{{MoI-Row
|page=dndmedia:Image:Hp_news.png
|section=
|notifier=Blue Dragon
|date_time=15:59, 18 May 2007 (MDT)
}}
{{MoI-Row
|page=SRD_Talk:Feint_(Rules)
|section=Links
|notifier=Armond
|date_time=14:35, 17 May 2007 (MDT)
}}
{{MoI-Row
|page=Talk:Firearm_Sniper_(DnD_General_and_Fighter_Feat)
|section=Copyright Issues?
|notifier=Dmilewski
|date_time=06:20, 15 May 2007 (MDT)
}}
{{MoI-Row
|page=MediaWiki:Sharedupload
|section=
|notifier=Green Dragon
|date_time=23:01, 14 May 2007 (MDT)
}}
{{MoI-Row
|page=Talk:Gaea's_Skyfolk_(DnD_Race)
|section=
|notifier=Green Dragon
|date_time=22:17, 14 May 2007 (MDT)
}}
{{MoI-Row
|page=Talk:Table:_Creature_Size_and_Scale
|section=
|notifier=Sledged
|date_time=10:40, 14 May 2007 (MDT)
}}
{{MoI-Row
|page=Talk:Worldgate_(DnD_Campaign_Setting)
|section=Converted files in Races missing characters
|notifier=Blue Dragon
|date_time=18:01, 13 May 2007 (MDT)
}}
{{MoI-Row
|page=dndmedia:D&D_Wiki_Media_talk:Copyrights
|section=Image documentation
|notifier=Cuthalion
|date_time=14:11, 11 May 2007 (MDT)
}}
{{MoI-Row
|page=Kamehameha_(DnD_Spell)
|section=
|notifier=Green Dragon
|date_time=22:55, 10 May 2007 (MDT)
}}
{{MoI-Row
|page=Talk:Main_Page
|section=MediaWiki updated
|notifier=Blue Dragon
|date_time=13:32, 9 May 2007 (MDT)
}}
{{MoI-Row
|page=Ultimate_Barbarian_(DnD_Class)
|section=
|notifier=Green Dragon
|date_time=09:49, 8 May 2007 (MDT)
}}
{{MoI-Row
|page=dndmedia:Talk:Main_Page
|section= Categories & templates
|notifier=Cuthalion
|date_time=22:26, 6 May 2007 (MDT)
}}
{{MoI-Row
|page=Talk:Aertai_(DnD_Creature)
|section="Aertai as Characters"
|notifier=Green Dragon
|date_time=15:21, 21 April 2007 (MDT)
}}
{{MoI-Row
|page=Talk:Worldgate (DnD Campaign Setting)
|section=PDF on D&D Wiki?
|notifier=Ra-Tiel
|date_time=00:44, 13 April 2007 (MDT)
}}
}}

{{Archives
|label1= Archive 1 (Discussions 1 – 30)
|label2= Archive 2 (Discussions 31 – 60)
|label3= Archive 3 (Discussions 61 – 90)
|label4= Archive 4 (Discussions 91 – 120)
|label5= Archive 5 (Discussions 121 – 150)
}}

== Thanks ==

I hope to contribute some ideas... but we'll see. Is there any sort of page that could help me with editing the Wiki? (As in commands or formatting?) I'll put in what I can and I must say a D&D Wiki is an awesome idea!

Sincerely, [[User:Seraphim Rush|Seraphim Rush]] 21:50, 20 April 2007

:There are many pages that help with formatted, however D&D Wiki has none of them. Since this site operates like Wikipedia the same commands are used, etc. A good page to start with is [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Editing this]. If you have any other formatting areas you want to learn more in (Images, Namespaces, Templates, etc) please tell me and I will supply another link to help you out. Also, I am glad you like D&D Wiki ''':)''' and welcome again. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 15:16, 21 April 2007 (MDT)

== Barnstar ==

{{Barnstar|I give you this [[Barnstar]] for providing a site that is for d20 and d20 Modern both an outlet ideas, and a source of new material. You're not just the owner of the site, but an active contributer, as well. Not content to sit back and let others do all the work, you add new material, prompt users into discussions, edit pages to conform to layout standards, and many other smaller task that, though alone seem minor, contribute to this site's overall quality. As regular patron of this site, I thank you. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 17:38, 21 April 2007 (MDT)}}

Been waiting a while to do this. If only I had known earlier I that anyone could give barnstars. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 17:38, 21 April 2007 (MDT)

:Thanks a lot! Sorry for not having it say somewhere that anyone can give barnstars... Anyway, thanks again! --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:02, 22 April 2007 (MDT)

== Delete My Page Please ==

I was told by Sledge that my class isn't permitted to be posted because it is not Open Game Content. Could you please delete my work if it is? --[[User:Gob|Gob]] 20:26, 22 April 2007 (MDT)

:I would normally be more than happy to just delete it, however the best way to go about deleting pages is by using [[Candidates for Deletion]] as that is what it was made for. If you do not want to go through that process I would be more than happy to just delete it, however please tell me what you decide. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 16:43, 23 April 2007 (MDT)

::Oh well, I just deleted it without [[Candidates for Deletion]]. Sorry that it could not be on this site and I hope you decide to add some homebrew content still ''':)'''. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:45, 24 April 2007 (MDT)

== New Base Class ==

Okay... apparently, I logged out when I wasn't watching and I created the class "Moon Scythe". Perhaps I wasn't paying attention, but it is a contribution of mine... is there any way to have that listed? --[[User:Seraphim Rush|Seraphim Rush]] 01:00, 23 April 2007 (MDT)

:Right now you are using the best way to show it is your work, with [[Template:Author]]. Other than that there is no way (One cannot change the history to say it was not added by an IP). Sorry however with [[Template:Author]] it should be known who's work the Moon Scythe really is. Hope this helps. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 16:40, 23 April 2007 (MDT)

== Carbonized attitude ==

GD: Thanks for the MoI. I had seen [[Talk:Steel, Carbonized (DnD Equipment)|the comment]], but didn't think it deserved a response.
#This is obviously a fantasy material with fantasy properties.
#The writer seems more interested in spouting off than offering constructive criticism, so I feel no obligation to reply.
–[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] ([[User talk:Cuthalion|talk]]) 20:56, 24 April 2007 (MDT)

:Oh, I just wanted to make sure you has seen it as it is your item. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 21:31, 24 April 2007 (MDT)

::I understand. Thanks. –[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] ([[User talk:Cuthalion|talk]]) 07:47, 25 April 2007 (MDT)

== br verses blank lines ==

Next time, if you'd like me to change something on my user page, could you please ask me? I use br tags for a few reasons, and I don't understand why they're un-wikiish. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Editing#Most_frequent_wiki_markup_explained Wikipedia's help page] describes how to use them, so even though they're not wiki coding I tend to see them as acceptable. Thanks. [[User:Armond|Armond]] 14:48, 27 April 2007 (MDT)

:Sure. The reason I used blank lines instead of br's is because they are HTML and, even though wikis support HTML, are not wiki-code. Anyway, if you ant to revert my edit just use the history and everythig should work out (edit the revision before mine). Anyway, sorry again. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 16:53, 27 April 2007 (MDT)

== New user message ==

GD: That message which greets each new user on their talk page, is that automated? How do you do that? Thanks. –[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] ([[User talk:Cuthalion|talk]]) 20:55, 29 April 2007 (MDT)

:It's not automated, sorry. I just manually copy and paste it there each time. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 10:46, 30 April 2007 (MDT)

::Oh, how frightfully low-tech. Thanks, anyway. –[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] ([[User talk:Cuthalion|talk]]) 11:50, 30 April 2007 (MDT)

:::Yup ''':)''' --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:34, 30 April 2007 (MDT)

== Question? ==

I have been working with the base class "Valkyrie" and I have done all of the work to make it into what it is. I was wondering if it would be alright to take the credit for doing that, as a different author came up with the class idea, but I actually gave it its whole description, class table, abilties etc...

Basically, they came up with the name.

Thought I'd ask and see if it was all right, rather than just change it.

--[[User:Seraphim Rush|Seraphim Rush]] 21:07, 29 April 2007 (MDT)

:Better now? I got rid of [[Template:Author]] and replaced it with [[Template:Adopted Article]] with you as the adopter. Also, I put OldRiginas name down with "''Basic idea presented by:''". Is this still too much credit for him? What do you think? Also, you need to fill out the status on the Valkyrie's [[Template:Adopted Article]]... --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 10:39, 30 April 2007 (MDT)

::That is brilliant. Thank you. I do think it is too much credit, but I will let them have at least a little bit, after all they did spark my interest in even making the class ^^ Will do, and thanks again. --[[User:Seraphim Rush|Seraphim Rush]] 17:37, 30 April 2007 (MDT)

:::What if the re-wording was changed to something like ''Article Creation By:'', ''Basic Creation By:'', or ''Sparker of Interest for Adopter By:''? Do you think any of these would be better? Do you have any ideas of your own of what a good thing to say would be? I don't want to give too much credit where it is not deserved... --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 18:25, 30 April 2007 (MDT)

::::I like the idea of "Adopted Article the best. Personally I think it is a good choice to leave that as is. It is a great idea. --[[User:Seraphim Rush|Seraphim Rush]] 23:11, 30 April 2007 (MDT)

:::::Wait, new idea. How about "''This article, as a stub, was added by:''"? Does that or the ''Sparker of Interest for Adopter By:'' sound better? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:16, 1 May 2007 (MDT)

::::::Hmm... or perhaps "''This article, as a stub, was completed by:''". Though I must still say your original idea "''Basic idea presented by:''" along with the [[Template:Adopted Article]]. I think it would be best to stik with your original it was good to go with ^^ --[[User:Seraphim Rush|Seraphim Rush]] 23:24, 1 May 2007 (MDT)

:::::::Sounds good. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:22, 2 May 2007 (MDT)

== Awkward question ==

As you might remember, I was [http://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Special:DoubleRedirects&limit=500 working on a project] for a while before locked pages became a pretty huge problem. It got quite annoying to try to fix a link only to find that it was on a locked page. So, plunging right into the awkward question, I was wondering if I could be made a sort of a "temporary admin" for just long enough to fix those, and then reverted back to a normal user. If not, not - I'll go back to fixing them (I think I've stayed away from them for long enough to not implode on the next locked page I find...) and leave a list of protected redirects somewhere for the current sysops to deal with. Thanks. [[User:Armond|Armond]] 14:22, 30 April 2007 (MDT)

:Sure. I give you this privilege under a couple of conditions.
:#Work quickly — I do not want to see you abuse your privileges when they were not given by the community via [[RfA]].
:#fix ''all'' the redirects, please.
:#Do not edit any locked page not affiliated with double redirect, again I would not want to see you abuse your privileges when they were not given by the community via [[RfA]]...
:Under these conditions I grant you sysop status. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 15:14, 30 April 2007 (MDT)

::Everything you say is quite agreeable and understandable - of course I will do so. Will do my best to have everything done before the end of tomorrow. Thanks bunches. [[User:Armond|Armond]] 15:16, 30 April 2007 (MDT)

:::Actually, that took a lot less time than I thought. If I can get online tonight, I should be able to finish them all by tomorrow morning. [[User:Armond|Armond]] 16:11, 30 April 2007 (MDT)

::::Sounds good ''':)'''. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 16:45, 30 April 2007 (MDT)

:::::Got that out of the way. Heh. Threw some delete tags on things with misspelled names and such, but the very last one (retorative ointment) bugged the double redirects page, so I had to delete it. Left the properly spelled one with the redirect, though. De-admin me when you get a chance ''':)''' Thanks! [[User:Armond|Armond]] 17:47, 30 April 2007 (MDT)

::::::Done. Thanks a lot for fixing all the redirects ''':)'''. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 18:14, 30 April 2007 (MDT)

:::::::Oh no.... I just realized... I forgot to turn off the option that adds pages I edit to my watchlist. Oh, man, clearing that lot out is going to be fun... Especially since I think it's done that for every redirect I've ever changed... >.< [[User:Armond|Armond]] 11:13, 2 May 2007 (MDT)

::::::::At least they don't get changed too often ''':)'''. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:33, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

== Hullo there ==

Hullo there! I noticed you editing my class-in-progress. Just wanted to say "hi". Later mate. -Tim {{Unsigned|75.153.172.237|19:19, 30 April 2007 (MDT)}}

:Hello as well. I don't really see any need to contact you, wiki's (with discussion, etc) work just fine for me ''':)'''. However, good job on the class you are adding so far and if you need any help please feel free to contact me (via discussion or email — found on my user-page). Anyway, welcome to D&D Wiki and as a side comment I would recommend you login/create an account here so people know what you edit, know what you add, and know where to give credit when due. Anyway, welcome again! --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:24, 30 April 2007 (MDT)

::Thanks mate. I love this site! I use it quite often as a reference. ''':)''' -Tim [[User:75.153.172.237|75.153.172.237]] 20:28, 30 April 2007 (MDT)

:::Glad to hear it and I hope some of the homebrew content has made a good impression in your campaign that you are either in or running. Anyway, glad you like the site. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:30, 30 April 2007 (MDT)

== An idea? ==

There are a considerable amount of "Index" files that would allow players a quick reference to many of the aspects of D&D such as feats and races. I dunno, it might be a good idea to use, it might not. Either way, it can be found here: http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20 . I thought it could be a useful thing for the D&D wiki to have access to. {{Unsigned|Seraphim Rush|22:18, 30 April 2007 (MDT)}}

:This is really cool! Check out the indices for feats. –[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] ([[User talk:Cuthalion|talk]]) 07:36, 1 May 2007 (MDT)

::You might want to ask this question to Dmilewski as he runs the SRD... --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 10:39, 2 May 2007 (MDT)

:::This isn't anything that involves the [[SRD]]. This stuff can be included in the DnD section (or even have its own section). The more I edit NPCs like [[Aelan Mooneye (DnD NPC)]], the better the idea sounds. That page has a crap-load of spells, feats, classes, magic items & artifacts, creatures, and subtypes that are referenced from non-OGC materials. I wouldn't mind seeing each one having it's own page giving a brief description of the item in question (as much as allowed without breaking copyright laws), and detailed information of what source(s) in which it can be found, [[Elven High Mage (WotC DnD Prestige Class)|like so]]. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 12:17, 18 May 2007 (MDT)

== SRD? ==

does the open gaming licence only allow the basics, or can anything from any book go into SRD? i have a few books that arent listed, and i was wondering if it was legal to have them added to our SRD. ==[[User:Alabastor|Alabastor]] 08:28, 2 May 2007 (MDT)

: ''Check the inside front of the books (on the page with the copyright information). If it reads, "None of the content in this book is Open Game Content" then you can't add anything.'' —[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]]; regurgitated by [[User:Sledged|Sledged]]

: And though the SRD is Open Game Content, not all OGC is part of the SRD (like Unearthed Arcana and parts of the Monster Manual II). The SRD is just the basics. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 09:13, 2 May 2007 (MDT)

::Sledged couldn't have explained it better. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:32, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

== Lost a Page ==

So I was working on a prestige class, the Harmful Hand Adept. It seems to have disappeared. If you click here[http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/User_Prestige_Classes_with_Descriptions#h|here] you'll notice that the "Allashane Fighting Style Adept" (which is the old name I used for the class) is filed under "H", where the Harmful Hand Adept used to be. I can't seem to find the class using the "search" feature either. Any suggestions? -[[User:Othtim|Othtim]] 04:18, 3 May 2007 (MDT)

:Fixed. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 09:48, 3 May 2007 (MDT)

::Sorry about that. When I moved the page I forgot to change the categories... Sorry. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 15:14, 3 May 2007 (MDT)

== You Suck!!! ==

Why the hell haven't you changed this ''(censored)'' logo yet?!?! C'mon, get with the ''(censored)'' picture!!! {{Unsigned|Great Wyrm Black Dragon|2007-05-05 13:14:03}}

:How...pleasant of you. -- [[User:Flession|Flession]] 14:25, 5 May 2007 (MDT)

::I'll just quote Green Dragon:

::''If you would like to work on a better logo by all means please work on one. Once you have uploaded it the community will review it and see if it is better than the current one, and if it is it will replace it.''

::Also, if you know someone who's a professional graphic designer and their willing to donate a potential new logo, send them this way.

::To answer your question, no one has submitted an alternative logo that the community likes better than the current one. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 14:45, 5 May 2007 (MDT)

:::This brings me to a question... What should we do about swearing on D&D Wiki? Should it really be censored? It is their words after all... Please give any and all ideas you may have on this subject, thanks. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 17:13, 6 May 2007 (MDT)

:::: Unless it is seriously abused, I don't think censorship of profanity is really needed. There's hardly a issue with it, and I trust that when a rare incident does occur like this one, the admin can take care of it. -- [[User:Flession|Flession]] 13:53, 7 May 2007 (MDT)

::::: I feel that profanity used in an abusive manner warrants being censored. It's all about the context. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 14:06, 7 May 2007 (MDT)

::::::I think the policy (not written in stone) should be that if the profanity is directed at someone it should be censored. So, If one says "Green Dragon is an " the  should be removed, however if one says "Green Dragons last edit is " the profanity would not be removed. Does this sound acceptable? To strict? To lenient? Please give some input. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 15:47, 15 May 2007 (MDT)

:::::::I believe that all profanity should be removed from the site as soon as is possible. There are many, many reasons for this. Having children idly browsing the site, being watched by their parents, and then having their parents notice a swear word, will cause this site to be removed from the child's access. It can not possibly add anything to the content that this website is bringing. Consider it to this: Racist terms are "people's words", but they should not be allowed because they are offensive. The same applies with swear words. We want this to be a website were anybody can edit, but even more importantly '''anybody can view'''. It will be blocked from schools, by parents, and by content filters if it contains swear words. I vote, remove them as soon as they appear, and let the user know that this website is about information, not an outlet for profanity. — [[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] ([[User_talk:Blue Dragon|talk]]) 18:42, 15 May 2007 (MDT)

::::::::I agree with that - a couple other places I visit have been blocked only for that reason. Given that, I've put GD's profanity in comment brackets (hope you don't mind). By the way, GD, you said we should "remove the a--", which, if one called you said a--, would mean we would remove you ''':)''' Should we do that? --[[User:Armond|Armond]] ([[User talk:Armond|talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Armond|contribs]]) 15:10, 16 May 2007 (MDT)

If every "vulgarity" in the common sense is to be censored, so should any and all demeaning words...such as dumb, retarded, stupid, ugly. Positive ''(censored)'' should only be used and never negative. If you substitute freak with ''(censored)'', it's used in the exact same context and shouldn't be used. Gosh is used in substitute of god, so it should be banned. Crap should. Poop, dang, dagnabbit, sun of a gun...they all symbolize the same. If you are to remove one, then remove all. I understand the position against racist ''(censored)'' like ''(censored)'' and ''(censored)'', or sexist ''(censored)'' like ''(censored)'' or ''(censored)'', or bigoted ''(censored)'' like making fun of someone cuz of their religion, but never the case against ''(censored)''. same with ''(censored)'', ''(censored)'', ''(censored)'', ''(censored)''. And if you're going to ban words like god, then you might as well only allow religious people on this site. {{Unsigned|Great Wyrm Black Dragon|2007-05-16 20:06}}

:How about this: We censor all that can reasonably be considered offensive - I'll give a short list and you can figure it out from there. --[[User:Armond|Armond]] ([[User talk:Armond|talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Armond|contribs]]) 20:39, 16 May 2007 (MDT)

== clean up of my article pianura dei draghi ==

hi i see the communication of clean up you can help me please? i don't know what i can do hi --[[User:Luigiliuba|Luigiliuba]] 09:28, 7 May 2007 (MDT)

:I will remove it because I cannot help you format it (I do not speak your native language). Also, formatting CS's is not that big of a deal, so don't worry to much about it... --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:34, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

== A requested bit of Input. ==

Sorry to bother you, but I have a request to make: I've noticed you do quite a bit of balance ratings and suggestions, and I was wondering if you might could give me your input on my only finished race so far. [[Shadowkin (DnD Race)]] Thanks!
[[User:Nighteye|Nighteye]] 20:47, 7 May 2007 (MDT)

:Done. I may have been a bit rude, and sorry in advance. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:16, 7 May 2007 (MDT)

== Spellcasting Powerhouse Update ==

I have made some updates to the Spellcasting Powerhouse optimization. It introduces the Ultimate Magus PrC from The Complete Mage that allows a character to advance in prepared AND spontaneous arcane casting classes. Practiced spell caster can be taken for multiple casting classes. Combine this with the Wild Mages ability to increase the power of spells and the fact that the Ultimate Magus class plus Practiced Spellcaster gets you up to speed on spells per day and what level spells you cast and you get the true spell casting powerhouse. My DM is going to be running The Cult of Yex, a 1-20 campaign and I am running a character under this build. I couldn't have done it without your original Wild Mage idea! {{Unsigned|Gworranet|18:38, 8 May 2007 (MDT)}}

:I'll take credit where due, however I did not help in this optimization... Could you please explain what is going on? Did you get me mixed up with a different user? I am confused... --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:31, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

::Off-hand, I'd say (A) the [[Spellcasting Powerhouse (DnD Character Optimization)]] doesn't specify an author, and (B) it's your site, therefore Gworranet attributes the build to you. If you can't take credit for the build, take credit for giving the original author a place to publish it. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 22:40, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

== What is LA? ==

I've never heard of level adjustment before. I suppose that it would be the same as a basic elf.

And pardon any mistakes Wiki wise i'm rather new to the format. {{Unsigned|Fenrir|06:17, 15 May 2007 (MDT)}}

:Wow, coincidence. I just recently answered this exact same question yesterday, see [[Talk:Shæné (DnD Race)#LA?|Talk:Shæné]]. If you still have a question about how LA works, please fell free to ask me your question here. Thanks, and I hope this helps. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 15:41, 15 May 2007 (MDT)

== SRD?? ==

I have it in "Hammer and Helm: A Guidebook to Dwarves" published by Green Ronin Publishingas part of the racs of renown series. --[[User:71.219.137.212|71.219.137.212]] 14:46, 19 May 2007 (MDT)

:I have answered on [[Talk:Ironbound (Prestige Class)]]. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 10:56, 21 May 2007 (MDT)

== Greetings ==

Hey, thank's for the note. I'm an age old player of D&D, starting nearly fifteen years ago, at the age of five, when I came into my babysitter's campaign. No joke. As for editing dandwiki, I have, over the years, accumulated a slew of homebrew rules, tasks, classes... one I've started posting on here, which will probably take a while to finish, is the Elementalist, who's unique spell list i have begun to post (ill be finishing that tonight), as well as the class. As for contributing, I'll probably try an hour or two a week. I'm only half-decent with wiki formatting, so ill be looking t other pages to get an idea of different formats, fonts, etc. Also for some reason my user name and signature don't match up... it's Macarisil Moonash but appears as Marrin (see below)
[[User:Macarisil Moonash|Marrin]] 08:47, 23 May 2007 (MDT)

:Greetings again. Anyway, to fix our signature go to "my preferences" (top right corner of the screen) and once that page loads remove all content from the "Nickname" field. This should solve your problem. Also I am glad you are adding things, keep it up! I will help you format your class and spell list as time permits, if they need to be formatted. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 14:56, 23 May 2007 (MDT)

==Campaign setting==

:''Discussion moved to [[User talk:Mobius/EaA#Move]].''

== Searching ==

Hi GD,
not sure where to ask this, but is the search facility working for you? I tried searching "dog" and all I get is could not find message. Couldn't search for this page either. Can you look in on it? --[[User:Pwsnafu|Pwsnafu]] 17:44, 29 May 2007 (MDT)

:A couple things... Since the upgrade of MediaWiki to the newest version [[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] has not yet been able to re-implement the old search (It was called lucine, I believe) that was better than the standard search. The reason the "dog" search did, and will not, work is because the standard search does not allow searches three letters or less. For any search that is three letters or less it automatically not perform the search and will give no results. I do not know why searching for "User talk:Green Dragon" did not work, however maybe you spelled something wrong... Finally, and I would be very happy if you did this, if you contact Blue Dragon and tell him you want the old search back he will most likely work on it sooner. So, please contact Blue Dragon and lets get lucine back up and running ''':)'''. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:41, 29 May 2007 (MDT)

== FreeDoc Barnstar ==

{{FreeDoc Barnstar|I give you the FreeDoc Barnstar for adding the Netbook of Feats to the DnD Wiki.--[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 14:45, 30 May 2007 (MDT)}}
You never got a barnstar for you terrific efforts with the Netbook of Feats. Now that I'm straightening out the Feat categories, I find that we have 1,400 feats! Of those, 1/3 are from the NBoF. So, for that mountain of work, I give you this barnstar. --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 14:45, 30 May 2007 (MDT)

== Thanks ==

Hello Sulacu, and welcome to D&D Wiki! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like D&D Wiki and decide to stay. I am the owner of the site, and if you have a question feel free to ask me, however when contacting anyone on D&D Wiki through talk pages please sign your name using four tildes <nowiki>(~~~~)</nowiki>; this will automatically produce your name and the date. Also, if you want to help D&D Wiki but just don't know how [http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=User_talk:Green_Dragon&action=edit&section=new drop me a note] and I'll see what I can do. However, when dropping me a note please tell me how much time you would like to spend working, how well you know the Wiki Format, and how well you know D&D. I hope you enjoy editing here and being a D&D Wikian! If you need help ask me on my talk page, or just right here. Again, welcome! --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 17:30, 30 May 2007 (MDT)

:Hello Green Dragon, Thanks for the welcome. My contributions are usually the result of creativity, and there are times that I feel more inclined and less inclined to be creative. I would consider my knowledge of D&D to be fair, although reasonably non-specific (I own no more than 10 books), and I have been learning to use the Wiki Format by doing, mostly, by submitting some of my recent - and less recent - works here to be scrutinized by anyone who's interested. If I can profess to be busy with anything at the moment, it's with a bestiary of sorts, maybe to help me gain skill in building monsters. If there's any help I need right now it's something quite specific. CR is something that occasionally still drives me up the hills. Otherwise, I'll be delighted to just keep learning by doing. If there are other ways I can help with anything, I might have some free time... Greetings, --[[User:Sulacu|Sulacu]] 17:38, 30 May 2007 (MDT)

== Created my Wiki ==

Hi Green Dragon,

* As I said earlier, I created my wiki. [s205755332.onlinehome.fr/mediawiki/ Temporary addess].
* I installed the ''Google Extension'' ([http://s205755332.onlinehome.fr/mediawiki/index.php?title=SoP:Google_test page])
* Any idea on how to have an add in every page, without manually adding it?

Thank you. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 20:21, 30 May 2007 (MDT)

Character Class Design Guidelines (DnD Guideline)

2007-05-30T10:17:28Z

David Latapie:

When designing a character class, you need to keep many things in mind. This page is here to help you design a better class. These guidelines are not binding. Some of the guidelines may be vague or contradictory. Making a good class is one part science, one part alchemy, and one part playtesting.

== Use the Class Template ==

Use the [{{fullurl:DnD Class Preload|action=edit}} DnD Class Template].

Use the [{{fullurl:DnD Prestige Class Preload|action=edit}} DnD Prestige Class Template].

== Your Class Writeup Should ==

Your class writeup should:
* Use proper English, follow punctuation, and use correct spelling.
* Present as much information as possible for the player. Help reduce page flipping.
* Follow the organizational structure as presented in the official publications or the SRD.
* Avoid abbreviations.
* Avoid trademarks and copyrighted material.
* Worship clarity.
* Avoid using "he/she", "his/her", and "him/her" to refer a character with levels in the class. Pick a gender (or the absense of one; "it" is acceptable) for the pronouns and stay with it.

== Basic Questions ==
Here are some questions to keep in mind:
* What is the class's niche? What does the class excel at?
* What is the closest comparable class type?
* Does the class gain appropriate abilities at appropriate levels, compared to other classes?
* Does your class have any offensive perks?
* Does your class have any defensive perks?
* Does your class have any mobility/battlefield control abilities?
* Does your class have any logistical support abilities?
* Does your class have any diplomatic abilities?
* Do the abilities of your class synergize as the class advances in level?
* Can this class replaces a core class character in a four person party?
* Do you name the bonuses that you grant your character?
* Do you properly identify Extroadinary (Ex), Supernatural (Su), and Spell-like (Sp) abilities?
* How does your class fit into society?
* How does a non-adventuring member of your class make a living?
* What does society think of your class?

== Generic Guidelines ==

Here are some general guidelines for class design:

* Flexible classes should be weaker in overall power, but be very good in multiple roles.
* Unflexible classes should be very good in their main ability, but less able in other roles.
* The class should be attractive from Level 1 to Level 20
* The abilities of the class at higher levels should be compelling enough to keep the class for twenty levels.
* The class should always have ability gaps, and those gaps in the class make multiclassing or teaming up with others worthwhile.
* The class should '''not''' be able to do something unreasonably better than an iconic class which was designed to do the same task at the same level.
* Your class should be adventure oriented.
* Your class should have powers that are adventure oriented.

== Martial Classes ==

Points of note for martial classes:
* Martial classes usually gain martial weapons, light armor, medium armor, and shields. The higher their mobility, the less armor that they gain. The lower the mobility, the more armor that they should gain. Classes with no mobility perks should gain heavy armor.
* Tower Shield should probably '''not''' be gained at first level. Only the fighter gains this feat at first level by default. Consider well before giving your class this proficiency.
* Martial classes should gain a 1:1 BAB progression.
* Unarmored/lightly armored martial classes gain named AC bonuses from various sources.
* Martial classes have hit die in the d8, d10, d12 range.
* Martial classes have good fortitute saves, sometimes good reflex or good will saves, and rarely all three good saves.
* Martial classes should rely on the ability scores that that open up feats appropriate to their class or have those feats written into the class.
* Martial classes should be able to tank against monsters. They must be able to withstand the attack of the monsters, do damage to the monsters, and keep the monsters away from the weaker party members.
* Martial classes gain lower skill points, usually +2 per level, but sometimes +4 if their overall AC is lower or their HD is lower.
* Martial classes are more than BAB and damage dealt. If you focus too strongly on these two aspects of the class, the class will play flat.

== Support Classes ==
Points of note for support classes:
* Support classes are usually skill oriented.
* Support classes excel in the logistics role.
* Support classes excel in the "face man" role; the person who interacts with NPC's.
* Support classes are less strong in combat than fighters, but better at melee than wizards and sorcerers.
* Support classes make others strong in combat by:
** Getting the party to the combat (moving safely through dangerous territory, avoiding traps, uncovering obscure knowlege)
** Preparing the party for combat (scouting ahead, identifying threats, gathering information on targets)
** Supporting the party in combat (giving flanking, buffing everyone with courage, easily switch roles when surprises show up)
* Support classes usually get 3/4 BAB.
* Support classes are usually proficient with simple weapons, along with select martial weapons.
* Support classes are usually proficient with light and medium armor, and shields, but not tower shields.
* Support classes can have spells (rangers, bards). The spell list is small and advances to 4th-6th level.
* Support classes can have sneak attacks (rogues and scouts).

== Spellcasting/Powers Classes ==
Points of note for spellcasting classes:
* How easily can your spellcaster "go nova" (use all his spellcasting abilities in a short time)? Is this intended?
* Primary spellcasters have long spell lists and advance to 9th level spells.
* Secondary spellcasters have focused spell lists and advance to 4th-6th level spells.
* Best save is Will.
* Classes that increase the spellcasting/power-manifesting abilities of other classes should have a "Spells per Day/Spells Known" or "Power Points/Powers Known" section that explains in detail when and how the increase applies:
** At what class levels does the character increase her power-manifesting?
** Can the increase apply to either arcane or divine spellcasting or only divine spellcasting?
** Can the increase apply to power-manifesting progressions that don't meet the requirements or only the ones that do?
** What happens if the character doesn't have any pre-existing spellcasting abilities?
** Does the character get the a choice to which power-manifesting class the increase is applied, or is the character locked into the progression he chose at the first increase?
** Does the character get more spells per day and spells known, or does she just get a caster level increase?
* Arcane Spellcasters usually gain:
**d4 hp.
**1/2 BAB
**No armor proficiencies.
**Select simple weapons.
**Wizard/Sorcerer spell list
**2 skill points per level
**Are expected to stay away from melee
**Access to familiars
* Divine Spellcasters usually gain:
**d8 HP
**3/4 BAB
**Light and Medium armor, and shields. Possibly Heavy Armor.
**Simple weapons
**Channel positive/negative energy (turn undead, turn elementals, etc)
**Alignment restrictions

== Prestige Classes ==
Points of note for prestige classes:
* Prestige classes should be campaign/setting/race/occupation/role specific. (Example: Sherwood Bowman, Dutch Trader, Damascus Smith, Naval Officer)
* Prestige classes should be more narrowly tailored than base classes.
* Prestige classes should '''not''' just do what a base class does, only better.
* Prestige classes should require abilities available to multiple classes. e.g. Evasion (available to [[rogue]]s, [[monk]]s and others) is okay as a prerequisite, but Ki Strike (available only to [[monk]]s) is not.
* Prestige classes should have requirements that synergize with the abilities given in the prestige class. Example: Weapon Focus (longbow) and Sneak Attack +2d6 are good requirements for a Sherwood Bowman.
* Prestige classes should give abilities appropriate to their level.
* Prestige classes should bring together feats and abilities, and help them synergize with each other.
* Prestige classes should give abilities that make taking all levels in that prestige class attractive.
* Prestige classes should go for somewhere between 3 and 10 levels. Making 3-, 5- or 10-level prestige classes is the norm.
* Prestige classes should '''not''' give proficiencies in armor or weapons. These should be inherited from the base classes, or require them as prerequisites.
* Prestige classes should '''not''' have ability score requirements (not directly anyway). Instead, require feats with ability score prerequisites or the ability to cast spells of a specific level.
* Prestige classes should, in detail, explain the consequences (if any) of losing a requirement after taking levels in the class.

== Racial Levels ==
Racial classes:
* Racial classes develop the abilities of your race.
* Racial classes reduce the level adjustment of a race by turning some racial features into racial class levels.
* The racial class levels should synergise with the race's preferred class.
* Racial classes usually advance for 1 to 3 levels.
* There is a good correlation between the race's level adjustment and the number of racial levels available. Races with particularly high level adjustments would have many more racial levels.

== Suggested readings ==
* [[Creating Prestige Classes (DnD_Other)|Creating Prestige Classes]]
* Prestige Class Online Design Workshop. [http://www.montecook.com/arch_dmonly9.html Part I] and [http://www.montecook.com/arch_dmonly10.html Part 2]
----
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Talk:Warrior of the Soul (3.5e Prestige Class)

2007-05-09T22:51:31Z

David Latapie: /* Pre-requisites */

=Notes=

The class implements the Celestial template. Celestials gain Acid and Electricity resistance, but not fire resistance. I think it can gain those instead of fire resistance without giving any balance issues. I also customized this a little more to make it more PC friendly. --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 05:22, 9 May 2007 (MDT)

:We also need to consider the requirements for this class. They should better reflect the virtuous nature of this class. I do not wish to lock out non-spellcasters from this class. I see this class more as a non-spellcaster, non-monk route to virtue. --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 05:46, 9 May 2007 (MDT)

Just a note to say to you both know D&D better and have more time than me. So feel free to change mostly everything, as long as the “Good pendant of the Blood Soldier” stays in.

Thank you for all this [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 12:31, 9 May 2007 (MDT)

=Integration With Existing Classes=

We need to figure out how this class fits with clerics, paladins, good druids, good monks, and the like.

== Pre-requisites ==

“Tower Shield Proficiency or Paladin 5 or five levels of an appropriate divine-oriented warrior class.” The way it is written, it seems like Paladin 5 or else is a alternative for Tower Shield, whilst I guess it is an alternative for all these feats. Maybe a list would sho this better.

Like:

* the following feats: Armor Proficiency (Light), Armor Proficiency (Medium), Armor Proficiency (Heavy), Improved Grapple, Improved Shield Bash, Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Unarmed Strike, Martial Weapon Proficiency (all martial weapons), Mounted Combat, Shield Proficiency, Tower Shield Proficiency
* or Paladin 5
* or five levels of an appropriate divine-oriented warrior class.

What do you think? [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 12:35, 9 May 2007 (MDT)

:I think that we need to COMPLETELY rethink the prerequisites. Where the blood soldier was expected to go anywhere and obey any order, the Warrior of the Soul is a virtuous warrior.

:* Light/medium/heavy armor, shields
:* +5 BAB
:* All martial weapons
:* One or more Exalted feats.
--[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 12:52, 9 May 2007 (MDT)

::Yes Exalted feats are a must. BTW, Blood Soldiers shall have some Vile feats, don't you think [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 13:13, 9 May 2007 (MDT)

:::The blood soldier already requires all feats for a fighter up until level 5. If he needs one or more vile feats, we should remove one or more non-vile feats. --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 14:04, 9 May 2007 (MDT)

::::I say get rid of Two-Weapon Fighting exchange for a vile feat. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 15:54, 9 May 2007 (MDT)

::::I have no advice on what to remove so I may only, and humbly, remind the pre-requisites: the Blood Soldier is a jack-of-all-martial-trades. Any weapon and armour (so I would add exotic armour and especially weapons, and oversized figthing, for a handling a Fiendish axe, for instance), as well as some kind of nature tolerance, for being able of ''fighting everywhere, with everything''. I'm not that good when it comes to the Warrior of the Soul. The BS is a Jeep, but what is the WS? Also, shall WS be more powerful than BS, which is more numerous (a classical antagonism between elite Good and swarming Evil)? [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 16:51, 9 May 2007 (MDT)

Talk:Warrior of the Soul (3.5e Prestige Class)

2007-05-09T19:13:57Z

David Latapie: /* Pre-requisites */

Warrior of the Soul (3.5e Prestige Class)

2007-05-09T18:38:48Z

David Latapie:

<dplc>Warrior of the Soul (DnD Prestige Class)|{{PrC Description|Blood Soldier|NR|Good Guy, Combat-Focused|Warriors of the Soul are extremely good persons, who have dedicated themselves to serving the cause of Heaven in the afterlife. Rather than have a peaceful and easy afterlife, they have sacrificed their eternal bliss to protect Good for all eternity. In other words, they have chosen to have a worse afterlife than they deserve.|5|5}}</dplc>
{{Balance}}
{{author|author_name=David Latapie|date_created=5/9/2007|status=FirstDraft}}

See [[Blood Soldier (DnD Prestige Class)|Blood Soldier]] for most things, as the two classes shall evolve in concert. Also consider that, since Evil is a more easy route to follow than Good, there are generally more Evil-doers than Good-doers and, consequently, Warriors of the Soul might be more powerful than their Evil counterpart.
Also consider the Deathless template for the follow-up PrC (Champion of the Soul). Warriors and Champions of the Sould shall have Exalted Feats, whereas Blood Soldiers and blood Champions shall have Vile feats

= Warrior of the Soul =

''fluff''

==Prerequisites==
* '''Alignment:''' Any Good
* '''Feats:''' [[Armor Proficiency (Light) (SRD Feat)|Armor Proficiency (Light)]], [[Armor Proficiency (Medium) (SRD Feat)|Armor Proficiency (Medium)]], [[Armor Proficiency (Heavy) (SRD Feat)|Armor Proficiency (Heavy)]], [[Improved Grapple]], [[Improved Shield Bash]], [[Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (SRD Feat)|Two-Weapon Fighting]], [[Improved Unarmed Strike]], [[Martial Weapon Proficiency]] (all martial weapons), [[Mounted Combat]], [[Shield Proficiency]], [[Tower Shield Proficiency]] or [[Paladin]] 5 or five levels of an appropriate divine-oriented warrior class.
* '''Basic Attack Bonus:''' +5 or better
* '''Special:''' ''fluff''.

{| cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" class="d20"
|+ style="text-align: right;" | <div style="float: left;">Table: The Warrior of the Soul</div> Hit Die: d10
|-
! Level
! [[Base Attack Bonus (terminology)|Base Attack Bonus]]
! Fort Save
! Ref Save
! Will Save
! style="text-align: left;" | Special
|-
| 1st || +1 || +2|| +0|| +0|| style="text-align: left;" | Aura of Good, Darkvision, Smite Evil
|- class="even"
| 2nd || +2|| +3|| +0|| +0|| style="text-align: left;" | Energy Resistance (Acid, Electricity) 5
|-
| 3rd || +3|| +3|| +1|| +1|| style="text-align: left;" | Energy Resistance (Cold) 5
|- class="even"
| 4th || +4|| +4|| +1|| +1|| style="text-align: left;" | DR 5/magic
|-
| 5th || +5|| +4|| +1|| +1|| style="text-align: left;" | [[Celestial]] template
|-
| colspan="6" style="text-align: left; border: none;" |
'''Class Skills (2 + Int modifier per level)''' [[Climb (SRD Skill)|Climb]], [[Craft (SRD Skill)|Craft]], [[Handle Animal (SRD Skill)|Handle Animal]], [[Intimidate (SRD Skill)|Intimidate]], [[Jump (SRD Skill)|Jump]], [[Ride (SRD Skill)|Ride]], [[Swim (SRD Skill)|Swim]].
|}

==Class Features==

All the following are class features of the Warrior of the Soul:

'''Aura of Good (Ex):''' The power of a Warrior of the Soul's aura of Good (see the ''[[Detect Evil (SRD Spell)|detect evil]]'' spell) is equal to her character level. Add Good to the warrior's subtype. In addition, any [[celestial]] or [[fiend]] recognizes the Warrior of the Soul as such and will treat her accordingly.

'''Darkvision (Ex):''' The Warrior of the Soul gains [[Darkvision]] out to 60 feet.

'''''Smite Evil (Su):''''' Once per day the creature can make a normal melee attack to deal extra damage equal to its HD total (maximum of +20) against an Evil foe. If the character already has Smite Evil, he gains no additional benefits.

'''Resist Acid (Ex):''' The Warrior of the Soul gains Resistance (Acid) 5.

'''Resist Electricity (Ex):''' The Warrior of the Soul gains Resistance (Electricity) 5.

'''Resist Cold (Ex):''' The Warrior of the Soul gains Resistance (Cold) 5.

'''Damage Resistance (Ex):''' The Warrior of the Soul gains DR 5/magic.

'''Celestial (Ex):''' The Warrior of the Soul has secured himself a place in the afterlife as a mercenary. The Warrior of the Soul gains the [[Celestial]] template. Add [[Extraplanar]] to the Warrior's subtype. The Warrior of the Soul gains [[Spell Resistance]] character level + 5. Use the character level when determining hit die based effects. Do not count the level adjustment of the template.

A Warrior of the Soul's [[Natural Weapons (SRD Special Ability)|natural weapons]], as well as any weapons they wield, are treated as good-aligned and magic for the purpose of overcoming [[Damage Reduction (SRD Special Ability)|damage reduction]].

When a Warrior of the Soul dies, a celestial comes down to retrieve the fallen warrior's soul. The higher the level of the fallen, the higher the type of celestial. The warrior of the soul is then changed to type Outsider. He is then given the choice to remain on the material plane, fighting for good until he reaches level 20, or to ascend and join the celestial hosts.

----
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Warrior of the Soul (3.5e Prestige Class)

2007-05-09T18:37:17Z

David Latapie: /* Class Features */

<dplc>Warrior of the Soul (DnD Prestige Class)|{{PrC Description|Blood Soldier|NR|Good Guy, Combat-Focused|Warriors of the Soul are extremely good persons, who have dedicated themselves to serving the cause of Heaven in the afterlife. Rather than have a peaceful and easy afterlife, they have sacrificed their eternal bliss to protect Good for all eternity. In other words, they have chosen to have a worse afterlife than they deserve.|5|5}}</dplc>
{{Balance}}
{{author|author_name=David Latapie|date_created=5/9/2007|status=FirstDraft}}

See [[Blood Soldier (DnD Prestige Class)|Blood Soldier]] for most things, as the two classes shall evolve in concert. Also consider that, since Evil is a more easy route to follow than Good, there are generally more Evil-doers than Good-doers and, consequently, Warriors of the Soul might be more powerful than their Evil counterpart.
Also consider the Deathless template for the follow-up PrC (Champion of the Soul). Warriors and Champions of the Sould shall have Exalted Feats, whereas Blood Soldiers and blood Champions shall have Vile feats

= Warrior of the Soul =

''fluff''

==Prerequisites==
* '''Alignment:''' Any Good
* '''Feats:''' [[Armor Proficiency (Light) (SRD Feat)|Armor Proficiency (Light)]], [[Armor Proficiency (Medium) (SRD Feat)|Armor Proficiency (Medium)]], [[Armor Proficiency (Heavy) (SRD Feat)|Armor Proficiency (Heavy)]], [[Improved Grapple]], [[Improved Shield Bash]], [[Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (SRD Feat)|Two-Weapon Fighting]], [[Improved Unarmed Strike]], [[Martial Weapon Proficiency]] (all martial weapons), [[Mounted Combat]], [[Shield Proficiency]], [[Tower Shield Proficiency]] or [[Paladin]] 5 or five levels of an appropriate divine-oriented warrior class.
* '''Basic Attack Bonus:''' +5 or better
* '''Special:''' ''fluff''.

{| cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" class="d20"
|+ style="text-align: right;" | <div style="float: left;">Table: The Warrior of the Soul</div> Hit Die: d10
|-
! Level
! [[Base Attack Bonus (terminology)|Base Attack Bonus]]
! Fort Save
! Ref Save
! Will Save
! style="text-align: left;" | Special
|-
| 1st || +1 || +2|| +0|| +0|| style="text-align: left;" | Aura of Good, Darkvision, Smite Evil
|- class="even"
| 2nd || +2|| +3|| +0|| +0|| style="text-align: left;" | Energy Resistance (Acid, Electricity) 5
|-
| 3rd || +3|| +3|| +1|| +1|| style="text-align: left;" | Energy Resistance (Cold) 5
|- class="even"
| 4th || +4|| +4|| +1|| +1|| style="text-align: left;" | DR 5/magic
|-
| 5th || +5|| +4|| +1|| +1|| style="text-align: left;" | [[Celestial]] template
|-
| colspan="6" style="text-align: left; border: none;" |
'''Class Skills (2 + Int modifier per level)''' [[Climb (SRD Skill)|Climb]], [[Craft (SRD Skill)|Craft]], [[Handle Animal (SRD Skill)|Handle Animal]], [[Intimidate (SRD Skill)|Intimidate]], [[Jump (SRD Skill)|Jump]], [[Ride (SRD Skill)|Ride]], [[Swim (SRD Skill)|Swim]].
|}

==Class Features==

All the following are class features of the Warrior of the Soul:

'''Aura of Good (Ex):''' The power of a Warrior of the Soul's aura of Good (see the ''[[Detect Evil (SRD Spell)|detect evil]]'' spell) is equal to her character level. Add Good to the warrior's subtype. In addition, any [[celestial]] or [[fiend]] recognizes the Warrior of the Soul as such and will treat her accordingly.

'''Darkvision (Ex):''' The Warrior of the Soul gains [[Darkvision]] out to 60 feet.

'''''Smite Evil (Su):''''' Once per day the creature can make a normal melee attack to deal extra damage equal to its HD total (maximum of +20) against an Evil foe. If the character already has Smite Evil, he gains no additional benefits.

'''Resist Acid (Ex):''' The Warrior of the Soul gains Resistance (Acid) 5.

'''Resist Electricity (Ex):''' The Warrior of the Soul gains Resistance (Electricity) 5.

'''Resist Cold (Ex):''' The Warrior of the Soul gains Resistance (Cold) 5.

'''Damage Resistance (Ex):''' The Warrior of the Soul gains DR 5/magic.

'''Celestial (Ex):''' The Warrior of the Soul has secured himself a place in the afterlife as a mercenary. The Warrior of the Soul gains the [[Celestial]] template. Add [[Extraplanar]] to the Warrior's subtype. The Warrior of the Soul gains [[Spell Resistance]] character level + 5. Use the character level when determining hit die based effects. Do not count the level adjustment of the template.

A Warrior of the Soul's [[Natural Weapons (SRD Special Ability)|natural weapons]], as well as any weapons they wield, are treated as good-aligned and magic for the purpose of overcoming [[Damage Reduction (SRD Special Ability)|damage reduction]].

When a Warrior of the Soul dies, a celestial comes down to retrieve the fallen warrior's soul. The higher the level of the fallen, the higher the type of celestial. The warrior of the soul is then changed to type Outsider. He is then given the choice to remain on the material plane, fighting for good until he reaches level 20, or to ascend and join the celestial hosts.

----
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Warrior of the Soul (3.5e Prestige Class)

2007-05-09T18:36:16Z

David Latapie: /* Prerequisites */

<dplc>Warrior of the Soul (DnD Prestige Class)|{{PrC Description|Blood Soldier|NR|Good Guy, Combat-Focused|Warriors of the Soul are extremely good persons, who have dedicated themselves to serving the cause of Heaven in the afterlife. Rather than have a peaceful and easy afterlife, they have sacrificed their eternal bliss to protect Good for all eternity. In other words, they have chosen to have a worse afterlife than they deserve.|5|5}}</dplc>
{{Balance}}
{{author|author_name=David Latapie|date_created=5/9/2007|status=FirstDraft}}

See [[Blood Soldier (DnD Prestige Class)|Blood Soldier]] for most things, as the two classes shall evolve in concert. Also consider that, since Evil is a more easy route to follow than Good, there are generally more Evil-doers than Good-doers and, consequently, Warriors of the Soul might be more powerful than their Evil counterpart.
Also consider the Deathless template for the follow-up PrC (Champion of the Soul). Warriors and Champions of the Sould shall have Exalted Feats, whereas Blood Soldiers and blood Champions shall have Vile feats

= Warrior of the Soul =

''fluff''

==Prerequisites==
* '''Alignment:''' Any Good
* '''Feats:''' [[Armor Proficiency (Light) (SRD Feat)|Armor Proficiency (Light)]], [[Armor Proficiency (Medium) (SRD Feat)|Armor Proficiency (Medium)]], [[Armor Proficiency (Heavy) (SRD Feat)|Armor Proficiency (Heavy)]], [[Improved Grapple]], [[Improved Shield Bash]], [[Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (SRD Feat)|Two-Weapon Fighting]], [[Improved Unarmed Strike]], [[Martial Weapon Proficiency]] (all martial weapons), [[Mounted Combat]], [[Shield Proficiency]], [[Tower Shield Proficiency]] or [[Paladin]] 5 or five levels of an appropriate divine-oriented warrior class.
* '''Basic Attack Bonus:''' +5 or better
* '''Special:''' ''fluff''.

{| cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" class="d20"
|+ style="text-align: right;" | <div style="float: left;">Table: The Warrior of the Soul</div> Hit Die: d10
|-
! Level
! [[Base Attack Bonus (terminology)|Base Attack Bonus]]
! Fort Save
! Ref Save
! Will Save
! style="text-align: left;" | Special
|-
| 1st || +1 || +2|| +0|| +0|| style="text-align: left;" | Aura of Good, Darkvision, Smite Evil
|- class="even"
| 2nd || +2|| +3|| +0|| +0|| style="text-align: left;" | Energy Resistance (Acid, Electricity) 5
|-
| 3rd || +3|| +3|| +1|| +1|| style="text-align: left;" | Energy Resistance (Cold) 5
|- class="even"
| 4th || +4|| +4|| +1|| +1|| style="text-align: left;" | DR 5/magic
|-
| 5th || +5|| +4|| +1|| +1|| style="text-align: left;" | [[Celestial]] template
|-
| colspan="6" style="text-align: left; border: none;" |
'''Class Skills (2 + Int modifier per level)''' [[Climb (SRD Skill)|Climb]], [[Craft (SRD Skill)|Craft]], [[Handle Animal (SRD Skill)|Handle Animal]], [[Intimidate (SRD Skill)|Intimidate]], [[Jump (SRD Skill)|Jump]], [[Ride (SRD Skill)|Ride]], [[Swim (SRD Skill)|Swim]].
|}

==Class Features==

All the following are class features of the blood soldier:

'''Aura of Good (Ex):''' The power of a Warrior of the Soul's aura of Good (see the ''[[Detect Evil (SRD Spell)|detect evil]]'' spell) is equal to her character level. Add Good to the soldier's subtype. In addition, any [[celestial]] or [[fiend]] recognizes the Warrior of the Soul as such and will treat her accordingly.

'''Darkvision (Ex):''' The Warrior of the Soul gains [[Darkvision]] out to 60 feet.

'''''Smite Evil (Su):''''' Once per day the creature can make a normal melee attack to deal extra damage equal to its HD total (maximum of +20) against an Evil foe. If the character already has Smite Evil, he gains no additional benefits.

'''Resist Acid (Ex):''' The Warrior of the Soul gains Resistance (Acid) 5.

'''Resist Electricity (Ex):''' The Warrior of the Soul gains Resistance (Electricity) 5.

'''Resist Cold (Ex):''' The Warrior of the Soul gains Resistance (Cold) 5.

'''Damage Resistance (Ex):''' The Warrior of the Soul gains DR 5/magic.

'''Celestial (Ex):''' The Warrior of the Soul has secured himself a place in the afterlife as a mercenary. The Warrior of the Soul gains the [[Celestial]] template. Add [[Extraplanar]] to the soldier's subtype. The Warrior of the Soul gains [[Spell Resistance]] character level + 5. Use the character level when determining hit die based effects. Do not count the level adjustment of the template.

A Warrior of the Soul's [[Natural Weapons (SRD Special Ability)|natural weapons]], as well as any weapons they wield, are treated as good-aligned and magic for the purpose of overcoming [[Damage Reduction (SRD Special Ability)|damage reduction]].

When a Warrior of the Soul dies, a celestial comes down to retrieve the fallen warrior's soul. The higher the level of the fallen, the higher the type of celestial. The warrior of the soul is then changed to type Outsider. He is then given the choice to remain on the material plane, fighting for good until he reaches level 20, or to ascend and join the celestial hosts.

----
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Talk:Warrior of the Soul (3.5e Prestige Class)

2007-05-09T18:35:11Z

David Latapie: Pre-requisites

Talk:Warrior of the Soul (3.5e Prestige Class)

2007-05-09T18:31:10Z

David Latapie: /* Notes */

Talk:Blood Soldier (3.5e Prestige Class)

2007-05-09T08:54:00Z

David Latapie: /* About the Celestial Pendant */

==Commentary==
The blood soldier is more meant as an NPC prestige class than a character class, although it should work as a character class, too. The idea is to have a character class that is accessible to "average" characters at levels 6-10. These characters are soldiers, so I decided to focus on footsoldier style weapons: polearms. You get some nice perks with the weapon, making it more flexible in a combat situation. The whole thing with armor spikes is to play up the whole "bad guy" aspect.

One aspect that I wanted to avoid was the "weird requirements" problems. I find that those prerequisites lead to very weird character designs. Since this class doesnt gain amazing powers, I can skip all that.

I do turn a dump stat into an advantage. Evil SHOULD be ugly, and be rewarded for it.

--[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 05:58, 24 March 2006 (MST)

Removed Die Hard, Iron Will, and Endurance as pre-reqs. Made the class too expensive. The class did not build on these feats. --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 08:02, 8 December 2006 (MST)

== Fort Save ==

Is it supposed to be a "good" save? —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] 11:21, 23 October 2006 (MDT)

:Corrected "Fort" with a good progression using Blackguard/Dwarven Defender/Dualist as a reference. --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 12:52, 23 October 2006 (MDT)


== Rating - 5/10==

'''On a scale of 1 to 10, where 1 is abysmal, 5 is adequate, and 10 is damned inspired and well implemented, I rate this entry:''' a 5. I think its balance is fine, but the class never really achieves a decent focus. I don't think its a memorable villain class. Call it ''the curse of blandness.'' The whole thing really needed to go back to the drawing table, which I did, and which resulted in the Villainous Fighter class. (I am far happier with THAT class.) --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 08:00, 8 December 2006 (MST)


== Good concept but… ==

I like very much the concept (“Insurance for afterlife”) but the implementation is… really disappointing. I was thinking of a Prestige Class for bargaining the best position in afterlife and what I discover really is Joe Fighter.

The concept opens up such a lot of opportunity; It deserves much better than that. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) 18:23, 19 March 2007 (MDT)

: Maybe we can make something out of this. What were you thinking that this class could be? Talk about that a little more. What are you seeing that I missed?--[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 21:23, 19 March 2007 (MDT)

::I go to sleep so just an idea for now: pact with a devil (souls of the killed will count for you when you'll trespass—the more souls, te better, maybe two other options for demon and yugoloth), a haven in the Lower Planes that this PrC slowly builds for itself… Well, consider what you will do as a player, to ensure yourself a confortable retirement. This PrC would do the same for its afterdeath. That may require looking at a diabolist-like PrC or even make this class a minor spellcaster. Diplomacy and Bluff may help too. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) 21:39, 19 March 2007 (MDT)

:::This sounds like a new XP-like system based on actions/kills. That's a complicated beast. That's not bad, but does involve more administrivia (which is generally cumbersome in play). The trick is how to make those fun rules that play out well for a fighter style character. Hmm...I'll think about some of these things.--[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 05:01, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

::::New XP-like system? No, I was not considering anything like this at all. Some feats would suffice, especially considering it is a NPC class. Let us say levels are gained by killing people and so are feats, like Minor Infernal Favour and so on. For sure, this class won't have any advantage during his lifetime from this—this is not the point. That is why this is a limited prestige classe. By taking some levels in this class, a Fighter voluntarily cripples himself in his lifetime, to better prepare himself for afterlife. Exactly like retirement. {{Unsigned|David Latapie|06:29, 20 March 2007 (MST)}}

== A Few Things to Pick At ==

I saw this on the recent changelist and figured that I would like to chime in too.

Charisma measures a character’s force of personality, persuasiveness, personal magnetism, ability to
lead, and physical attractiveness. This ability represents actual strength of personality, not
merely how one is perceived by others in a social setting.

I know this tears part of the class concept apart, but really -- low charisma means you are not respected at all. I don't see how having people not respect you would make you more feared. The bonus to intimidate seems cool, but really makes no sense. Adding to saving throws is fine however. {{Unsigned|Aarnott|09:31, 20 March 2007 (MST)}}

:Good point. If we decide to make the Blood Soldier a future high-ranking soldier in his afterlife, he must certainly be able to deal with devils, and high Charisma would make sense (not necessarily insanely high as for a [[SRD:Paladin (Class)|Paladin]], but still high). [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) 10:52, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

Since you can decrease charisma with a stat point can you also get into negative charisma scores?

I'm not sure where I read this, but a PrC apparently should not require an ability score (though it can require feats that do). I'm not really sure if that is valid though -- and this class could be an exception anyways because of the theme.

Then there is aura of courage. I don't get why it has this ability. It is an ability for leaders to inspire troops. If the PrC is to have a cha less than 10, it will not likely be the "leader" type.

I also think the class is a bit scattered. It has the low charisma theme (which disappears at 2nd level), the polearm theme (which is well done), and an armor spike theme.

Those are my thoughts, but I'm really not sure how to improve it without drastically changing the class. --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 10:31, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

:I believe it has to be changed, indeed. Or the introductory test has to. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) 10:52, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

::With everything else I've had to work on (like the SRD) I never came back to this prestige class. If you folks want to completely rewrite the entire idea, by all means, go for it. The negative charisma thing comes from the Drill Sergeant concept. They are the antithesis of what you think of as "charismatic." This class uses that to its advantage. In other words, true evil is ugly, and ugly gets you places in the underworld. The leadership abilities come from the fact that these tend to lead minions. I'll contribute ideas, but I won't drive the boat.

::Hmm. '''Unnatural Life (Su):''' Gain bonus hit points equal to twice your basic attack bonus. '''Demonic Brutality (Su):''' For killing so many good beings, you may now ''smite good'' 1 + Cha modifier per day, with bonus damage equal to your basic attack bonus. '''Infernal Resistance (Su):''' Gain elemental resistance 10 vs. fire. '''Priest Killer (Ex):''' You gain +4 to your saves against divine spell and any divine caster that you threaten gains a -4 to his concentration checks. {{Unsigned|Dmilewski|10:32, 20 March 2007 (MST)}}

:::I think that was one of the main things with 3rd ed. that Wizards was trying to change (besides removing THAC0 -- remember that? ''':-P'''). The concept of what charisma is. A drill sergeant would likely have a low charisma if he is disliked (he is not respected, but his position is respected). Are drill sergeants more intimidating because of their personality? Probably in real life a little, but it more has to do with their skills of intimidation rather than their force of personality. Charisma probably shouldn't matter to this class for this reason. I think I'll adopt this class should I get time. --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 12:51, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

== Complete Rewrite ==

I completely rewrote the class. This class now gains the [[Fiendish]] template.

I am now happier with the class. The focus works far better with the concept.

Right now, the class is five levels. Is there sufficient coolness in the class for ten levels? --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 13:14, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

:Possible "advanced" class features: Protection from Good, Smite Good, Fly, Summon (Blood Soldier), telepathy, teleportation, blasphemy (1/day). From [[half-fiend]]: Bat Wings, Natural Armor +1, Claw and Bite, Smite Good, Spell-Like Ability, Immune to Poison, Single Ability Increase.--[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 14:04, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

::You are right: the new class is much better. Problem with a tenth-level is that it will significantly cripple a character (for a much stronger character after death, of course). For an NPC, this is even better and for a PC even worse (well, except in very specific campaign where a Blood Soldier would certainly rule). So yes, a 10-level is doable as long as NPC remains the focus.

::As for the template, you said “Change the character's type to Outsider [Extraplanar, Evil]”. Shouldn't it be “Change the character's type to Outsider [Augemented Humanoid, Evil]”?

::Finally, about the powers: since the goal of a Blood Soldier is to get a good position in afterlife, I suggest that at least half of his power will not be redundant with his future fiendish position (like immunity to fire from Blood Soldier being overridden by his new body as a fiend). Because, should the power be redundant, you end up with a Blood Soldier having less and less of an edge as he climbs up the infernal hierarchy.

::Just some thoughts. Once again, this is a good build here (and I am an demanding person, I don't say “good build” to anyone :-) ). [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 14:13, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

:::Thanks. This class has potential to go places, but I'll only take it places if we get a good design on it. Right now, it's short, sweet, and works. It generates an interesting NPC. It's a good hook into a possible campaign to break up a Blood Soldier cult. That's a good NPC class in my book. --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 14:23, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

::::By default, any time type changes, the creature automatically gets the augmented subtype. Any exceptions are explicitly noted (e.g. the [[skeleton]]). This, however, brings up a question: Why does the PrC change the type to [[outsider]]? That's not part of the [[fiendish]] template.

::::Also, I think this should stay a 5 level PrC. (Allows 10 levels for the follow-up PrC. See below [[#Feat Requirements|discussion]].) —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 14:25, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

:::::There should definitely be something as a follow-up. I'm thinking "dead Blood Soldier" will be the only requirement for the class. For PC's, it's a mistake to create a class that only uses its best ability when it dies, but for a NPC, it's a useful plot-twist.

::::::Definitely a good idea, a follow-up PrC as a dead Blood Soldier! [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 14:58, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

:::::I can tweak this a bit. We'll add (Extraplanar) to his subtype. On dying, his subtype changes to Outsider (Extraplanar). (When you sell your soul to infernal powers, and you die, those powers come to collect.) --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 14:32, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

== Feat Requirements ==

The feat requirements (not prerequisites) Two-Weapon Fighting and Weapon Focus (polearm) seem a bit counter-intuitive, given that the only time one could benefit from both is to wield a polearm designed for a creature one size smaller. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 13:29, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

== Transformational Class ==

This PrC just begs for another transformational PrC to gain the [[half-fiend]] template. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 13:29, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

:You're just too quick off the mark. I was just fixing that. A fighter can now qualify for this for this class for his sixth level. :P We could call a half-fiend a Degenerate? A depraved butcher? Hmmm. Gotta think about that. That also begs for a [[Celestial]] and a [[half-celestial]] PrC. --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 13:51, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

::Blood Champion. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 14:37, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

:::Ooooh. So we can have a Blood Soldier (followed up with Blood Champion), a Celestial Soldier (followed up with Celestial Champion)? That sounds cool.--[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 14:48, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

::::Now you're speaking of it: The Blood Soldier is a [http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ei/20021208a&pf=true Transformational Prestige Class]. Let's see if there is something similar in official rules and how we can depart from this (the Champions as the dead follow-up is a great way to differ from the existing transformational classes). [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 16:03, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

== About the Celestial Pendant ==
I don't think a Celestial pendant would make sense: there is no mercenary mindset in the Heavens. In the Hells, one can bargain an insurance, but not in the Heavens, it just doesn't fit with the concept of Good (one can pursue power, but not pursue virtue). Cupidity, hunger for power, comes from the person, but Virtue descends upon the Heavens. One can buy himself a position in Hell, but not in Heavens, because there is no symmetry here (do I make myself understood? I'm not sure). Bottom-line: no Celestial Soldier possible (if it was, the Celestial Champion would have the Deathless template and should not be called Celestial because the contrary is Infernal, not Blood).

Of course, this is just a suggestion. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 16:03, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

:Instead of "celestial soldier," it could be called "warrior of light." —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 16:10, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

::Light | Darkness ;-) but anyway, I would be very careful before considering such a Deathless. For those who read the D&D fora, see [http://boards1.wizards.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-354277 the Psionic Lich] [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 16:20, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

:::"Warrior of the soul" then. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 16:28, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

::::Interesting, it opposes well to Blood. Congratulations :-) Maybe ''Spirit'' would be even better, since Spirit relates even more naturally to Heavens (e.g. Holy Spirit). But the main question remains: does it make sense? [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 16:32, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

:::::It makes sense. The fluff text would change to reflect the motivation of those who seek to fight for good in the celestial armies. Think less "mercenary" and more "volunteer." Pitch: These are warriors who have dedicated themselves to serving the cause of heaven in the afterlife. Rather than have a peaceful and easy afterlife, they have sacrificed their eternal bliss to protect Good for all eternity. In other words, they have chosen to have a worse afterlife than they deserve.--[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 17:43, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

::::::I like it. You convinced me! “They are among the most virtuous of the Exalted and are collectively known as ‘Warriors of the Soul|Spirit’” (Spirit looks better for the reason I expressed earlier, but Soul sounds better). I will [[Warrior_of_the_Soul_(DnD_Prestige_Class)|create a mockup]] ASAP. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 02:38, 9 May 2007 (MDT)

Shall there be some Ethical pendant (Axiomatic/Anarchist?). That would make sense, although I won't do it myself as I'm not that interested in it. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 02:38, 9 May 2007 (MDT)

Warrior of the Soul (3.5e Prestige Class)

2007-05-09T08:53:03Z

David Latapie: Creation

<dplc>Warrior of the Soul (DnD Prestige Class)|{{PrC Description|Blood Soldier|NR|Good Guy, Combat-Focused|Warriors of the Soul are extremely good persons, who have dedicated themselves to serving the cause of Heaven in the afterlife. Rather than have a peaceful and easy afterlife, they have sacrificed their eternal bliss to protect Good for all eternity. In other words, they have chosen to have a worse afterlife than they deserve.|5|5}}</dplc>
{{Balance}}
{{author|author_name=David Latapie|date_created=5/9/2007|status=FirstDraft}}

See [[Blood Soldier (DnD Prestige Class)|Blood Soldier]] for most things, as the two classes shall evolve in concert. Also consider that, since Evil is a more easy route to follow than Good, there are generally more Evil-doers than Good-doers and, consequently, Warriors of the Soul might be more powerful than their Evil counterpart.
Also consider the Deathless template for the follow-up PrC (Champion of the Soul). Warriors and Champions of the Sould shall have Exalted Feats, whereas Blood Soldiers and blood Champions shall have Vile feats

= Warrior of the Soul =

''fluff''

==Prerequisites==
* '''Alignment:''' Any Good
* '''Feats:''' [[Armor Proficiency (Light) (SRD Feat)|Armor Proficiency (Light)]], [[Armor Proficiency (Medium) (SRD Feat)|Armor Proficiency (Medium)]], [[Armor Proficiency (Heavy) (SRD Feat)|Armor Proficiency (Heavy)]], [[Improved Grapple]], [[Improved Shield Bash]], [[Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (SRD Feat)|Two-Weapon Fighting]], [[Improved Unarmed Strike]], [[Martial Weapon Proficiency]] (all martial weapons), [[Mounted Combat]], [[Shield Proficiency]], [[Tower Shield Proficiency]].
* '''Basic Attack Bonus:''' +5 or better
* '''Special:''' ''fluff''.

{| cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" class="d20"
|+ style="text-align: right;" | <div style="float: left;">Table: The Blood Soldier</div> Hit Die: d10
|-
! Level
! [[Base Attack Bonus (terminology)|Base Attack Bonus]]
! Fort Save
! Ref Save
! Will Save
! style="text-align: left;" | Special
|-
| 1st || +1 || +2|| +0|| +0|| style="text-align: left;" | Aura of Good, Darkvision, Smite Evil
|- class="even"
| 2nd || +2|| +3|| +0|| +0|| style="text-align: left;" | Energy Resistance (Fire) 5
|-
| 3rd || +3|| +3|| +1|| +1|| style="text-align: left;" | Energy Resistance (Cold) 5
|- class="even"
| 4th || +4|| +4|| +1|| +1|| style="text-align: left;" | DR 5/magic
|-
| 5th || +5|| +4|| +1|| +1|| style="text-align: left;" | [[Celestial]] template
|-
| colspan="6" style="text-align: left; border: none;" |
'''Class Skills (2 + Int modifier per level)''' [[Climb (SRD Skill)|Climb]], [[Craft (SRD Skill)|Craft]], [[Handle Animal (SRD Skill)|Handle Animal]], [[Intimidate (SRD Skill)|Intimidate]], [[Jump (SRD Skill)|Jump]], [[Ride (SRD Skill)|Ride]], [[Swim (SRD Skill)|Swim]].
|}

==Class Features==

All the following are class features of the blood soldier:

'''Aura of Good (Ex):''' The power of a Warrior of the Soul's aura of Good (see the ''[[Detect Evil (SRD Spell)|detect evil]]'' spell) is equal to her character level. Add Good to the soldier's subtype. In addition, any [[celestial]] or [[fiend]] recognizes the Warrior of the Soul as such and will treat her accordingly.

'''Darkvision (Ex):''' The Warrior of the Soul gains [[Darkvision]] out to 60 feet.

'''''Smite Good (Su):''''' Once per day the creature can make a normal melee attack to deal extra damage equal to its HD total (maximum of +20) against an Evil foe.

'''Resist Fire (Ex):''' The Warrior of the Soul gains Resistance (Fire) 5.

'''Resist Cold (Ex):''' The Warrior of the Soul gains Resistance (Cold) 5.

'''Damage Resistance (Ex):''' The Warrior of the Soul gains DR 5/magic.

'''Celestial (Ex):''' The Warrior of the Soul has secured himself a place in the afterlife as a mercenary. The Warrior of the Soul gains the [[Celestial]] template. Add [[Extraplanar]] to the soldier's subtype. The Warrior of the Soul gains [[Spell Resistance]] character level + 5. Use the character level when determining hit die based effects. Do not count the level adjustment of the template.

A Warrior of the Soul's [[Natural Weapons (SRD Special Ability)|natural weapons]], as well as any weapons they wield, are treated as good-aligned and magic for the purpose of overcoming [[Damage Reduction (SRD Special Ability)|damage reduction]].

When a Warrior of the Soul dies, ''fluff''

----
Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]]->[[DnD Classes]]
[[Category:B]]
[[Category:DnD]]
[[Category:User]]
[[Category:Class]]
[[Category:Prestige Class]]
[[Category:Good Guy]]
[[Category:Combat-Focused]]

Talk:Blood Soldier (3.5e Prestige Class)

2007-05-09T08:38:39Z

David Latapie: /* Transformational Class */

==Commentary==
The blood soldier is more meant as an NPC prestige class than a character class, although it should work as a character class, too. The idea is to have a character class that is accessible to "average" characters at levels 6-10. These characters are soldiers, so I decided to focus on footsoldier style weapons: polearms. You get some nice perks with the weapon, making it more flexible in a combat situation. The whole thing with armor spikes is to play up the whole "bad guy" aspect.

One aspect that I wanted to avoid was the "weird requirements" problems. I find that those prerequisites lead to very weird character designs. Since this class doesnt gain amazing powers, I can skip all that.

I do turn a dump stat into an advantage. Evil SHOULD be ugly, and be rewarded for it.

--[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 05:58, 24 March 2006 (MST)

Removed Die Hard, Iron Will, and Endurance as pre-reqs. Made the class too expensive. The class did not build on these feats. --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 08:02, 8 December 2006 (MST)

== Fort Save ==

Is it supposed to be a "good" save? —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] 11:21, 23 October 2006 (MDT)

:Corrected "Fort" with a good progression using Blackguard/Dwarven Defender/Dualist as a reference. --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 12:52, 23 October 2006 (MDT)


== Rating - 5/10==

'''On a scale of 1 to 10, where 1 is abysmal, 5 is adequate, and 10 is damned inspired and well implemented, I rate this entry:''' a 5. I think its balance is fine, but the class never really achieves a decent focus. I don't think its a memorable villain class. Call it ''the curse of blandness.'' The whole thing really needed to go back to the drawing table, which I did, and which resulted in the Villainous Fighter class. (I am far happier with THAT class.) --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 08:00, 8 December 2006 (MST)


== Good concept but… ==

I like very much the concept (“Insurance for afterlife”) but the implementation is… really disappointing. I was thinking of a Prestige Class for bargaining the best position in afterlife and what I discover really is Joe Fighter.

The concept opens up such a lot of opportunity; It deserves much better than that. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) 18:23, 19 March 2007 (MDT)

: Maybe we can make something out of this. What were you thinking that this class could be? Talk about that a little more. What are you seeing that I missed?--[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 21:23, 19 March 2007 (MDT)

::I go to sleep so just an idea for now: pact with a devil (souls of the killed will count for you when you'll trespass—the more souls, te better, maybe two other options for demon and yugoloth), a haven in the Lower Planes that this PrC slowly builds for itself… Well, consider what you will do as a player, to ensure yourself a confortable retirement. This PrC would do the same for its afterdeath. That may require looking at a diabolist-like PrC or even make this class a minor spellcaster. Diplomacy and Bluff may help too. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) 21:39, 19 March 2007 (MDT)

:::This sounds like a new XP-like system based on actions/kills. That's a complicated beast. That's not bad, but does involve more administrivia (which is generally cumbersome in play). The trick is how to make those fun rules that play out well for a fighter style character. Hmm...I'll think about some of these things.--[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 05:01, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

::::New XP-like system? No, I was not considering anything like this at all. Some feats would suffice, especially considering it is a NPC class. Let us say levels are gained by killing people and so are feats, like Minor Infernal Favour and so on. For sure, this class won't have any advantage during his lifetime from this—this is not the point. That is why this is a limited prestige classe. By taking some levels in this class, a Fighter voluntarily cripples himself in his lifetime, to better prepare himself for afterlife. Exactly like retirement. {{Unsigned|David Latapie|06:29, 20 March 2007 (MST)}}

== A Few Things to Pick At ==

I saw this on the recent changelist and figured that I would like to chime in too.

Charisma measures a character’s force of personality, persuasiveness, personal magnetism, ability to
lead, and physical attractiveness. This ability represents actual strength of personality, not
merely how one is perceived by others in a social setting.

I know this tears part of the class concept apart, but really -- low charisma means you are not respected at all. I don't see how having people not respect you would make you more feared. The bonus to intimidate seems cool, but really makes no sense. Adding to saving throws is fine however. {{Unsigned|Aarnott|09:31, 20 March 2007 (MST)}}

:Good point. If we decide to make the Blood Soldier a future high-ranking soldier in his afterlife, he must certainly be able to deal with devils, and high Charisma would make sense (not necessarily insanely high as for a [[SRD:Paladin (Class)|Paladin]], but still high). [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) 10:52, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

Since you can decrease charisma with a stat point can you also get into negative charisma scores?

I'm not sure where I read this, but a PrC apparently should not require an ability score (though it can require feats that do). I'm not really sure if that is valid though -- and this class could be an exception anyways because of the theme.

Then there is aura of courage. I don't get why it has this ability. It is an ability for leaders to inspire troops. If the PrC is to have a cha less than 10, it will not likely be the "leader" type.

I also think the class is a bit scattered. It has the low charisma theme (which disappears at 2nd level), the polearm theme (which is well done), and an armor spike theme.

Those are my thoughts, but I'm really not sure how to improve it without drastically changing the class. --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 10:31, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

:I believe it has to be changed, indeed. Or the introductory test has to. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) 10:52, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

::With everything else I've had to work on (like the SRD) I never came back to this prestige class. If you folks want to completely rewrite the entire idea, by all means, go for it. The negative charisma thing comes from the Drill Sergeant concept. They are the antithesis of what you think of as "charismatic." This class uses that to its advantage. In other words, true evil is ugly, and ugly gets you places in the underworld. The leadership abilities come from the fact that these tend to lead minions. I'll contribute ideas, but I won't drive the boat.

::Hmm. '''Unnatural Life (Su):''' Gain bonus hit points equal to twice your basic attack bonus. '''Demonic Brutality (Su):''' For killing so many good beings, you may now ''smite good'' 1 + Cha modifier per day, with bonus damage equal to your basic attack bonus. '''Infernal Resistance (Su):''' Gain elemental resistance 10 vs. fire. '''Priest Killer (Ex):''' You gain +4 to your saves against divine spell and any divine caster that you threaten gains a -4 to his concentration checks. {{Unsigned|Dmilewski|10:32, 20 March 2007 (MST)}}

:::I think that was one of the main things with 3rd ed. that Wizards was trying to change (besides removing THAC0 -- remember that? ''':-P'''). The concept of what charisma is. A drill sergeant would likely have a low charisma if he is disliked (he is not respected, but his position is respected). Are drill sergeants more intimidating because of their personality? Probably in real life a little, but it more has to do with their skills of intimidation rather than their force of personality. Charisma probably shouldn't matter to this class for this reason. I think I'll adopt this class should I get time. --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 12:51, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

== Complete Rewrite ==

I completely rewrote the class. This class now gains the [[Fiendish]] template.

I am now happier with the class. The focus works far better with the concept.

Right now, the class is five levels. Is there sufficient coolness in the class for ten levels? --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 13:14, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

:Possible "advanced" class features: Protection from Good, Smite Good, Fly, Summon (Blood Soldier), telepathy, teleportation, blasphemy (1/day). From [[half-fiend]]: Bat Wings, Natural Armor +1, Claw and Bite, Smite Good, Spell-Like Ability, Immune to Poison, Single Ability Increase.--[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 14:04, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

::You are right: the new class is much better. Problem with a tenth-level is that it will significantly cripple a character (for a much stronger character after death, of course). For an NPC, this is even better and for a PC even worse (well, except in very specific campaign where a Blood Soldier would certainly rule). So yes, a 10-level is doable as long as NPC remains the focus.

::As for the template, you said “Change the character's type to Outsider [Extraplanar, Evil]”. Shouldn't it be “Change the character's type to Outsider [Augemented Humanoid, Evil]”?

::Finally, about the powers: since the goal of a Blood Soldier is to get a good position in afterlife, I suggest that at least half of his power will not be redundant with his future fiendish position (like immunity to fire from Blood Soldier being overridden by his new body as a fiend). Because, should the power be redundant, you end up with a Blood Soldier having less and less of an edge as he climbs up the infernal hierarchy.

::Just some thoughts. Once again, this is a good build here (and I am an demanding person, I don't say “good build” to anyone :-) ). [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 14:13, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

:::Thanks. This class has potential to go places, but I'll only take it places if we get a good design on it. Right now, it's short, sweet, and works. It generates an interesting NPC. It's a good hook into a possible campaign to break up a Blood Soldier cult. That's a good NPC class in my book. --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 14:23, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

::::By default, any time type changes, the creature automatically gets the augmented subtype. Any exceptions are explicitly noted (e.g. the [[skeleton]]). This, however, brings up a question: Why does the PrC change the type to [[outsider]]? That's not part of the [[fiendish]] template.

::::Also, I think this should stay a 5 level PrC. (Allows 10 levels for the follow-up PrC. See below [[#Feat Requirements|discussion]].) —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 14:25, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

:::::There should definitely be something as a follow-up. I'm thinking "dead Blood Soldier" will be the only requirement for the class. For PC's, it's a mistake to create a class that only uses its best ability when it dies, but for a NPC, it's a useful plot-twist.

::::::Definitely a good idea, a follow-up PrC as a dead Blood Soldier! [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 14:58, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

:::::I can tweak this a bit. We'll add (Extraplanar) to his subtype. On dying, his subtype changes to Outsider (Extraplanar). (When you sell your soul to infernal powers, and you die, those powers come to collect.) --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 14:32, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

== Feat Requirements ==

The feat requirements (not prerequisites) Two-Weapon Fighting and Weapon Focus (polearm) seem a bit counter-intuitive, given that the only time one could benefit from both is to wield a polearm designed for a creature one size smaller. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 13:29, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

== Transformational Class ==

This PrC just begs for another transformational PrC to gain the [[half-fiend]] template. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 13:29, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

:You're just too quick off the mark. I was just fixing that. A fighter can now qualify for this for this class for his sixth level. :P We could call a half-fiend a Degenerate? A depraved butcher? Hmmm. Gotta think about that. That also begs for a [[Celestial]] and a [[half-celestial]] PrC. --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 13:51, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

::Blood Champion. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 14:37, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

:::Ooooh. So we can have a Blood Soldier (followed up with Blood Champion), a Celestial Soldier (followed up with Celestial Champion)? That sounds cool.--[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 14:48, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

::::Now you're speaking of it: The Blood Soldier is a [http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ei/20021208a&pf=true Transformational Prestige Class]. Let's see if there is something similar in official rules and how we can depart from this (the Champions as the dead follow-up is a great way to differ from the existing transformational classes). [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 16:03, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

== About the Celestial Pendant ==
I don't think a Celestial pendant would make sense: there is no mercenary mindset in the Heavens. In the Hells, one can bargain an insurance, but not in the Heavens, it just doesn't fit with the concept of Good (one can pursue power, but not pursue virtue). Cupidity, hunger for power, comes from the person, but Virtue descends upon the Heavens. One can buy himself a position in Hell, but not in Heavens, because there is no symmetry here (do I make myself understood? I'm not sure). Bottom-line: no Celestial Soldier possible (if it was, the Celestial Champion would have the Deathless template and should not be called Celestial because the contrary is Infernal, not Blood).

Of course, this is just a suggestion. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 16:03, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

:Instead of "celestial soldier," it could be called "warrior of light." —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 16:10, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

::Light | Darkness ;-) but anyway, I would be very careful before considering such a Deathless. For those who read the D&D fora, see [http://boards1.wizards.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-354277 the Psionic Lich] [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 16:20, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

:::"Warrior of the soul" then. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 16:28, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

::::Interesting, it opposes well to Blood. Congratulations :-) Maybe ''Spirit'' would be even better, since Spirit relates even more naturally to Heavens (e.g. Holy Spirit). But the main question remains: does it make sense? [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 16:32, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

:::::It makes sense. The fluff text would change to reflect the motivation of those who seek to fight for good in the celestial armies. Think less "mercenary" and more "volunteer." Pitch: These are warriors who have dedicated themselves to serving the cause of heaven in the afterlife. Rather than have a peaceful and easy afterlife, they have sacrificed their eternal bliss to protect Good for all eternity. In other words, they have chosen to have a worse afterlife than they deserve.--[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 17:43, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

::::::I like it. You convinced me! “They are among the most virtuous of the Exalted and are collectively known as ‘Warriors of the Soul|Spirit’” (Spirit looks better for the reason I expressed earlier, but Soul sounds better). I will create a mockup ASAP. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 02:38, 9 May 2007 (MDT)

Shall there be some Ethical pendant (Axiomatic/Anarchist?). That would make sense, although I won't do it myself as I'm not that interested in it. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 02:38, 9 May 2007 (MDT)

Talk:Blood Soldier (3.5e Prestige Class)

2007-05-08T22:32:58Z

David Latapie: /* Transformational Class */

==Commentary==
The blood soldier is more meant as an NPC prestige class than a character class, although it should work as a character class, too. The idea is to have a character class that is accessible to "average" characters at levels 6-10. These characters are soldiers, so I decided to focus on footsoldier style weapons: polearms. You get some nice perks with the weapon, making it more flexible in a combat situation. The whole thing with armor spikes is to play up the whole "bad guy" aspect.

One aspect that I wanted to avoid was the "weird requirements" problems. I find that those prerequisites lead to very weird character designs. Since this class doesnt gain amazing powers, I can skip all that.

I do turn a dump stat into an advantage. Evil SHOULD be ugly, and be rewarded for it.

--[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 05:58, 24 March 2006 (MST)

Removed Die Hard, Iron Will, and Endurance as pre-reqs. Made the class too expensive. The class did not build on these feats. --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 08:02, 8 December 2006 (MST)

== Fort Save ==

Is it supposed to be a "good" save? —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] 11:21, 23 October 2006 (MDT)

:Corrected "Fort" with a good progression using Blackguard/Dwarven Defender/Dualist as a reference. --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 12:52, 23 October 2006 (MDT)

== Rating - 5/10==

'''On a scale of 1 to 10, where 1 is abysmal, 5 is adequate, and 10 is damned inspired and well implemented, I rate this entry:''' a 5. I think its balance is fine, but the class never really achieves a decent focus. I don't think its a memorable villain class. Call it ''the curse of blandness.'' The whole thing really needed to go back to the drawing table, which I did, and which resulted in the Villainous Fighter class. (I am far happier with THAT class.) --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 08:00, 8 December 2006 (MST)

== Good concept but… ==

I like very much the concept (“Insurance for afterlife”) but the implementation is… really disappointing. I was thinking of a Prestige Class for bargaining the best position in afterlife and what I discover really is Joe Fighter.

The concept opens up such a lot of opportunity; It deserves much better than that. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) 18:23, 19 March 2007 (MDT)

: Maybe we can make something out of this. What were you thinking that this class could be? Talk about that a little more. What are you seeing that I missed?--[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 21:23, 19 March 2007 (MDT)

::I go to sleep so just an idea for now: pact with a devil (souls of the killed will count for you when you'll trespass—the more souls, te better, maybe two other options for demon and yugoloth), a haven in the Lower Planes that this PrC slowly builds for itself… Well, consider what you will do as a player, to ensure yourself a confortable retirement. This PrC would do the same for its afterdeath. That may require looking at a diabolist-like PrC or even make this class a minor spellcaster. Diplomacy and Bluff may help too. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) 21:39, 19 March 2007 (MDT)

:::This sounds like a new XP-like system based on actions/kills. That's a complicated beast. That's not bad, but does involve more administrivia (which is generally cumbersome in play). The trick is how to make those fun rules that play out well for a fighter style character. Hmm...I'll think about some of these things.--[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 05:01, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

::::New XP-like system? No, I was not considering anything like this at all. Some feats would suffice, especially considering it is a NPC class. Let us say levels are gained by killing people and so are feats, like Minor Infernal Favour and so on. For sure, this class won't have any advantage during his lifetime from this—this is not the point. That is why this is a limited prestige classe. By taking some levels in this class, a Fighter voluntarily cripples himself in his lifetime, to better prepare himself for afterlife. Exactly like retirement. {{Unsigned|David Latapie|06:29, 20 March 2007 (MST)}}

== A Few Things to Pick At ==

I saw this on the recent changelist and figured that I would like to chime in too.

Charisma measures a character’s force of personality, persuasiveness, personal magnetism, ability to
lead, and physical attractiveness. This ability represents actual strength of personality, not
merely how one is perceived by others in a social setting.

I know this tears part of the class concept apart, but really -- low charisma means you are not respected at all. I don't see how having people not respect you would make you more feared. The bonus to intimidate seems cool, but really makes no sense. Adding to saving throws is fine however. {{Unsigned|Aarnott|09:31, 20 March 2007 (MST)}}

:Good point. If we decide to make the Blood Soldier a future high-ranking soldier in his afterlife, he must certainly be able to deal with devils, and high Charisma would make sense (not necessarily insanely high as for a [[SRD:Paladin (Class)|Paladin]], but still high). [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) 10:52, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

Since you can decrease charisma with a stat point can you also get into negative charisma scores?

I'm not sure where I read this, but a PrC apparently should not require an ability score (though it can require feats that do). I'm not really sure if that is valid though -- and this class could be an exception anyways because of the theme.

Then there is aura of courage. I don't get why it has this ability. It is an ability for leaders to inspire troops. If the PrC is to have a cha less than 10, it will not likely be the "leader" type.

I also think the class is a bit scattered. It has the low charisma theme (which disappears at 2nd level), the polearm theme (which is well done), and an armor spike theme.

Those are my thoughts, but I'm really not sure how to improve it without drastically changing the class. --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 10:31, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

:I believe it has to be changed, indeed. Or the introductory test has to. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) 10:52, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

::With everything else I've had to work on (like the SRD) I never came back to this prestige class. If you folks want to completely rewrite the entire idea, by all means, go for it. The negative charisma thing comes from the Drill Sergeant concept. They are the antithesis of what you think of as "charismatic." This class uses that to its advantage. In other words, true evil is ugly, and ugly gets you places in the underworld. The leadership abilities come from the fact that these tend to lead minions. I'll contribute ideas, but I won't drive the boat.

::Hmm. '''Unnatural Life (Su):''' Gain bonus hit points equal to twice your basic attack bonus. '''Demonic Brutality (Su):''' For killing so many good beings, you may now ''smite good'' 1 + Cha modifier per day, with bonus damage equal to your basic attack bonus. '''Infernal Resistance (Su):''' Gain elemental resistance 10 vs. fire. '''Priest Killer (Ex):''' You gain +4 to your saves against divine spell and any divine caster that you threaten gains a -4 to his concentration checks. {{Unsigned|Dmilewski|10:32, 20 March 2007 (MST)}}

:::I think that was one of the main things with 3rd ed. that Wizards was trying to change (besides removing THAC0 -- remember that? ''':-P'''). The concept of what charisma is. A drill sergeant would likely have a low charisma if he is disliked (he is not respected, but his position is respected). Are drill sergeants more intimidating because of their personality? Probably in real life a little, but it more has to do with their skills of intimidation rather than their force of personality. Charisma probably shouldn't matter to this class for this reason. I think I'll adopt this class should I get time. --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 12:51, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

== Complete Rewrite ==

I completely rewrote the class. This class now gains the [[Fiendish]] template.

I am now happier with the class. The focus works far better with the concept.

Right now, the class is five levels. Is there sufficient coolness in the class for ten levels? --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 13:14, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

:Possible "advanced" class features: Protection from Good, Smite Good, Fly, Summon (Blood Soldier), telepathy, teleportation, blasphemy (1/day). From [[half-fiend]]: Bat Wings, Natural Armor +1, Claw and Bite, Smite Good, Spell-Like Ability, Immune to Poison, Single Ability Increase.--[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 14:04, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

::You are right: the new class is much better. Problem with a tenth-level is that it will significantly cripple a character (for a much stronger character after death, of course). For an NPC, this is even better and for a PC even worse (well, except in very specific campaign where a Blood Soldier would certainly rule). So yes, a 10-level is doable as long as NPC remains the focus.

::As for the template, you said “Change the character's type to Outsider [Extraplanar, Evil]”. Shouldn't it be “Change the character's type to Outsider [Augemented Humanoid, Evil]”?

::Finally, about the powers: since the goal of a Blood Soldier is to get a good position in afterlife, I suggest that at least half of his power will not be redundant with his future fiendish position (like immunity to fire from Blood Soldier being overridden by his new body as a fiend). Because, should the power be redundant, you end up with a Blood Soldier having less and less of an edge as he climbs up the infernal hierarchy.

::Just some thoughts. Once again, this is a good build here (and I am an demanding person, I don't say “good build” to anyone :-) ). [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 14:13, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

:::Thanks. This class has potential to go places, but I'll only take it places if we get a good design on it. Right now, it's short, sweet, and works. It generates an interesting NPC. It's a good hook into a possible campaign to break up a Blood Soldier cult. That's a good NPC class in my book. --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 14:23, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

::::By default, any time type changes, the creature automatically gets the augmented subtype. Any exceptions are explicitly noted (e.g. the [[skeleton]]). This, however, brings up a question: Why does the PrC change the type to [[outsider]]? That's not part of the [[fiendish]] template.

::::Also, I think this should stay a 5 level PrC. (Allows 10 levels for the follow-up PrC. See below [[#Feat Requirements|discussion]].) —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 14:25, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

:::::There should definitely be something as a follow-up. I'm thinking "dead Blood Soldier" will be the only requirement for the class. For PC's, it's a mistake to create a class that only uses its best ability when it dies, but for a NPC, it's a useful plot-twist.

::::::Definitely a good idea, a follow-up PrC as a dead Blood Soldier! [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 14:58, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

:::::I can tweak this a bit. We'll add (Extraplanar) to his subtype. On dying, his subtype changes to Outsider (Extraplanar). (When you sell your soul to infernal powers, and you die, those powers come to collect.) --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 14:32, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

== Feat Requirements ==

The feat requirements (not prerequisites) Two-Weapon Fighting and Weapon Focus (polearm) seem a bit counter-intuitive, given that the only time one could benefit from both is to wield a polearm designed for a creature one size smaller. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 13:29, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

== Transformational Class ==

This PrC just begs for another transformational PrC to gain the [[half-fiend]] template. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 13:29, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

:You're just too quick off the mark. I was just fixing that. A fighter can now qualify for this for this class for his sixth level. :P We could call a half-fiend a Degenerate? A depraved butcher? Hmmm. Gotta think about that. That also begs for a [[Celestial]] and a [[half-celestial]] PrC. --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 13:51, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

::Blood Champion. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 14:37, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

:::Ooooh. So we can have a Blood Soldier (followed up with Blood Champion), a Celestial Soldier (followed up with Celestial Champion)? That sounds cool.--[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 14:48, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

::::Now you're speaking of it: The Blood Soldier is a [http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ei/20021208a&pf=true Transformational Prestige Class]. Let's see if there is something similar in official rules and how we can depart from this (the Champions as the dead follow-up is a great way to differ from the existing transformational classes).

::::I don't think a Celestial pendant would make sense: there is no mercenary mindset in the Heavens. In the Hells, one can bargain an insurance, but not in the Heavens, it just doesn't fit with the concept of Good (one can pursue power, but not pursue virtue). Cupidity, hunger for power, comes from the person, but Virtue descends upon the Heavens. One can buy himself a position in Hell, but not in Heavens, because there is no symmetry here (do I make myself understood? I'm not sure). Bottom-line: no Celestial Soldier possible (if it was, the Celestial Champion would have the Deathless template and should not be called Celestial because the contrary is Infernal, not Blood).

::::Of course, this is just a suggestion [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 16:03, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

:::::Instead of "celestial soldier," it could be called "warrior of light." —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 16:10, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

::::::Light | Darkness ;-) but anyway, I would be very careful before considering such a Deathless. For those who read the D&D fora, see [http://boards1.wizards.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-354277 the Psionic Lich] [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 16:20, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

:::::::"Warrior of the soul" then. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 16:28, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

::::::::Interesting, it opposes well to Blood. Congratulations :-) Maybe ''Spirit'' would be even better, since Spirit relates even more naturally to Heavens (e.g. Holy Spirit). But the main question remains: does it make sense? [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 16:32, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

Talk:Blood Soldier (3.5e Prestige Class)

2007-05-08T22:20:35Z

David Latapie: /* Feat Requirements */

==Commentary==
The blood soldier is more meant as an NPC prestige class than a character class, although it should work as a character class, too. The idea is to have a character class that is accessible to "average" characters at levels 6-10. These characters are soldiers, so I decided to focus on footsoldier style weapons: polearms. You get some nice perks with the weapon, making it more flexible in a combat situation. The whole thing with armor spikes is to play up the whole "bad guy" aspect.

One aspect that I wanted to avoid was the "weird requirements" problems. I find that those prerequisites lead to very weird character designs. Since this class doesnt gain amazing powers, I can skip all that.

I do turn a dump stat into an advantage. Evil SHOULD be ugly, and be rewarded for it.

--[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 05:58, 24 March 2006 (MST)

Removed Die Hard, Iron Will, and Endurance as pre-reqs. Made the class too expensive. The class did not build on these feats. --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 08:02, 8 December 2006 (MST)

== Fort Save ==

Is it supposed to be a "good" save? —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] 11:21, 23 October 2006 (MDT)

:Corrected "Fort" with a good progression using Blackguard/Dwarven Defender/Dualist as a reference. --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 12:52, 23 October 2006 (MDT)

== Rating - 5/10==

'''On a scale of 1 to 10, where 1 is abysmal, 5 is adequate, and 10 is damned inspired and well implemented, I rate this entry:''' a 5. I think its balance is fine, but the class never really achieves a decent focus. I don't think its a memorable villain class. Call it ''the curse of blandness.'' The whole thing really needed to go back to the drawing table, which I did, and which resulted in the Villainous Fighter class. (I am far happier with THAT class.) --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 08:00, 8 December 2006 (MST)

== Good concept but… ==

I like very much the concept (“Insurance for afterlife”) but the implementation is… really disappointing. I was thinking of a Prestige Class for bargaining the best position in afterlife and what I discover really is Joe Fighter.

The concept opens up such a lot of opportunity; It deserves much better than that. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) 18:23, 19 March 2007 (MDT)

: Maybe we can make something out of this. What were you thinking that this class could be? Talk about that a little more. What are you seeing that I missed?--[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 21:23, 19 March 2007 (MDT)

::I go to sleep so just an idea for now: pact with a devil (souls of the killed will count for you when you'll trespass—the more souls, te better, maybe two other options for demon and yugoloth), a haven in the Lower Planes that this PrC slowly builds for itself… Well, consider what you will do as a player, to ensure yourself a confortable retirement. This PrC would do the same for its afterdeath. That may require looking at a diabolist-like PrC or even make this class a minor spellcaster. Diplomacy and Bluff may help too. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) 21:39, 19 March 2007 (MDT)

:::This sounds like a new XP-like system based on actions/kills. That's a complicated beast. That's not bad, but does involve more administrivia (which is generally cumbersome in play). The trick is how to make those fun rules that play out well for a fighter style character. Hmm...I'll think about some of these things.--[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 05:01, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

::::New XP-like system? No, I was not considering anything like this at all. Some feats would suffice, especially considering it is a NPC class. Let us say levels are gained by killing people and so are feats, like Minor Infernal Favour and so on. For sure, this class won't have any advantage during his lifetime from this—this is not the point. That is why this is a limited prestige classe. By taking some levels in this class, a Fighter voluntarily cripples himself in his lifetime, to better prepare himself for afterlife. Exactly like retirement. {{Unsigned|David Latapie|06:29, 20 March 2007 (MST)}}

== A Few Things to Pick At ==

I saw this on the recent changelist and figured that I would like to chime in too.

Charisma measures a character’s force of personality, persuasiveness, personal magnetism, ability to
lead, and physical attractiveness. This ability represents actual strength of personality, not
merely how one is perceived by others in a social setting.

I know this tears part of the class concept apart, but really -- low charisma means you are not respected at all. I don't see how having people not respect you would make you more feared. The bonus to intimidate seems cool, but really makes no sense. Adding to saving throws is fine however. {{Unsigned|Aarnott|09:31, 20 March 2007 (MST)}}

:Good point. If we decide to make the Blood Soldier a future high-ranking soldier in his afterlife, he must certainly be able to deal with devils, and high Charisma would make sense (not necessarily insanely high as for a [[SRD:Paladin (Class)|Paladin]], but still high). [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) 10:52, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

Since you can decrease charisma with a stat point can you also get into negative charisma scores?

I'm not sure where I read this, but a PrC apparently should not require an ability score (though it can require feats that do). I'm not really sure if that is valid though -- and this class could be an exception anyways because of the theme.

Then there is aura of courage. I don't get why it has this ability. It is an ability for leaders to inspire troops. If the PrC is to have a cha less than 10, it will not likely be the "leader" type.

I also think the class is a bit scattered. It has the low charisma theme (which disappears at 2nd level), the polearm theme (which is well done), and an armor spike theme.

Those are my thoughts, but I'm really not sure how to improve it without drastically changing the class. --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 10:31, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

:I believe it has to be changed, indeed. Or the introductory test has to. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) 10:52, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

::With everything else I've had to work on (like the SRD) I never came back to this prestige class. If you folks want to completely rewrite the entire idea, by all means, go for it. The negative charisma thing comes from the Drill Sergeant concept. They are the antithesis of what you think of as "charismatic." This class uses that to its advantage. In other words, true evil is ugly, and ugly gets you places in the underworld. The leadership abilities come from the fact that these tend to lead minions. I'll contribute ideas, but I won't drive the boat.

::Hmm. '''Unnatural Life (Su):''' Gain bonus hit points equal to twice your basic attack bonus. '''Demonic Brutality (Su):''' For killing so many good beings, you may now ''smite good'' 1 + Cha modifier per day, with bonus damage equal to your basic attack bonus. '''Infernal Resistance (Su):''' Gain elemental resistance 10 vs. fire. '''Priest Killer (Ex):''' You gain +4 to your saves against divine spell and any divine caster that you threaten gains a -4 to his concentration checks. {{Unsigned|Dmilewski|10:32, 20 March 2007 (MST)}}

:::I think that was one of the main things with 3rd ed. that Wizards was trying to change (besides removing THAC0 -- remember that? ''':-P'''). The concept of what charisma is. A drill sergeant would likely have a low charisma if he is disliked (he is not respected, but his position is respected). Are drill sergeants more intimidating because of their personality? Probably in real life a little, but it more has to do with their skills of intimidation rather than their force of personality. Charisma probably shouldn't matter to this class for this reason. I think I'll adopt this class should I get time. --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 12:51, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

== Complete Rewrite ==

I completely rewrote the class. This class now gains the [[Fiendish]] template.

I am now happier with the class. The focus works far better with the concept.

Right now, the class is five levels. Is there sufficient coolness in the class for ten levels? --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 13:14, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

:Possible "advanced" class features: Protection from Good, Smite Good, Fly, Summon (Blood Soldier), telepathy, teleportation, blasphemy (1/day). From [[half-fiend]]: Bat Wings, Natural Armor +1, Claw and Bite, Smite Good, Spell-Like Ability, Immune to Poison, Single Ability Increase.--[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 14:04, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

::You are right: the new class is much better. Problem with a tenth-level is that it will significantly cripple a character (for a much stronger character after death, of course). For an NPC, this is even better and for a PC even worse (well, except in very specific campaign where a Blood Soldier would certainly rule). So yes, a 10-level is doable as long as NPC remains the focus.

::As for the template, you said “Change the character's type to Outsider [Extraplanar, Evil]”. Shouldn't it be “Change the character's type to Outsider [Augemented Humanoid, Evil]”?

::Finally, about the powers: since the goal of a Blood Soldier is to get a good position in afterlife, I suggest that at least half of his power will not be redundant with his future fiendish position (like immunity to fire from Blood Soldier being overridden by his new body as a fiend). Because, should the power be redundant, you end up with a Blood Soldier having less and less of an edge as he climbs up the infernal hierarchy.

::Just some thoughts. Once again, this is a good build here (and I am an demanding person, I don't say “good build” to anyone :-) ). [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 14:13, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

:::Thanks. This class has potential to go places, but I'll only take it places if we get a good design on it. Right now, it's short, sweet, and works. It generates an interesting NPC. It's a good hook into a possible campaign to break up a Blood Soldier cult. That's a good NPC class in my book. --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 14:23, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

::::By default, any time type changes, the creature automatically gets the augmented subtype. Any exceptions are explicitly noted (e.g. the [[skeleton]]). This, however, brings up a question: Why does the PrC change the type to [[outsider]]? That's not part of the [[fiendish]] template.

::::Also, I think this should stay a 5 level PrC. (Allows 10 levels for the follow-up PrC. See below [[#Feat Requirements|discussion]].) —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 14:25, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

:::::There should definitely be something as a follow-up. I'm thinking "dead Blood Soldier" will be the only requirement for the class. For PC's, it's a mistake to create a class that only uses its best ability when it dies, but for a NPC, it's a useful plot-twist.

::::::Definitely a good idea, a follow-up PrC as a dead Blood Soldier! [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 14:58, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

:::::I can tweak this a bit. We'll add (Extraplanar) to his subtype. On dying, his subtype changes to Outsider (Extraplanar). (When you sell your soul to infernal powers, and you die, those powers come to collect.) --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 14:32, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

== Feat Requirements ==

The feat requirements (not prerequisites) Two-Weapon Fighting and Weapon Focus (polearm) seem a bit counter-intuitive, given that the only time one could benefit from both is to wield a polearm designed for a creature one size smaller.

Also, this PrC just begs for another transitional PrC to gain the [[half-fiend]] template. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 13:29, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

:You're just too quick off the mark. I was just fixing that. A fighter can now qualify for this for this class for his sixth level. :P We could call a half-fiend a Degenerate? A depraved butcher? Hmmm. Gotta think about that. That also begs for a [[Celestial]] and a [[half-celestial]] PrC. --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 13:51, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

::Blood Champion. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 14:37, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

:::Ooooh. So we can have a Blood Soldier (followed up with Blood Champion), a Celestial Soldier (followed up with Celestial Champion)? That sounds cool.--[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 14:48, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

::::Now you're speaking of it: The Blood Soldier is a [http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ei/20021208a&pf=true Transformational Prestige Class]. Let's see if there is something similar in official rules and how we can depart from this (the Champions as the dead follow-up is a great way to differ from the existing transformational classes).

::::I don't think a Celestial pendant would make sense: there is no mercenary mindset in the Heavens. In the Hells, one can bargain an insurance, but not in the Heavens, it just doesn't fit with the concept of Good (one can pursue power, but not pursue virtue). Cupidity, hunger for power, comes from the person, but Virtue descends upon the Heavens. One can buy himself a position in Hell, but not in Heavens, because there is no symmetry here (do I make myself understood? I'm not sure). Bottom-line: no Celestial Soldier possible (if it was, the Celestial Champion would have the Deathless template and should not be called Celestial because the contrary is Infernal, not Blood).

::::Of course, this is just a suggestion [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 16:03, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

:::::Instead of "celestial soldier," it could be called "warrior of light." —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 16:10, 8 May 2007 (MDT)
::::::Light | Darkness ;-) but anyway, I would be very careful before considering such a Deathless. For those who read the D&D fora, see [http://boards1.wizards.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-354277 the Psionic Lich] [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 16:20, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

Talk:Blood Soldier (3.5e Prestige Class)

2007-05-08T22:03:12Z

David Latapie: /* Feat Requirements */

==Commentary==
The blood soldier is more meant as an NPC prestige class than a character class, although it should work as a character class, too. The idea is to have a character class that is accessible to "average" characters at levels 6-10. These characters are soldiers, so I decided to focus on footsoldier style weapons: polearms. You get some nice perks with the weapon, making it more flexible in a combat situation. The whole thing with armor spikes is to play up the whole "bad guy" aspect.

One aspect that I wanted to avoid was the "weird requirements" problems. I find that those prerequisites lead to very weird character designs. Since this class doesnt gain amazing powers, I can skip all that.

I do turn a dump stat into an advantage. Evil SHOULD be ugly, and be rewarded for it.

--[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 05:58, 24 March 2006 (MST)

Removed Die Hard, Iron Will, and Endurance as pre-reqs. Made the class too expensive. The class did not build on these feats. --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 08:02, 8 December 2006 (MST)

== Fort Save ==

Is it supposed to be a "good" save? —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] 11:21, 23 October 2006 (MDT)

:Corrected "Fort" with a good progression using Blackguard/Dwarven Defender/Dualist as a reference. --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 12:52, 23 October 2006 (MDT)

== Rating - 5/10==

'''On a scale of 1 to 10, where 1 is abysmal, 5 is adequate, and 10 is damned inspired and well implemented, I rate this entry:''' a 5. I think its balance is fine, but the class never really achieves a decent focus. I don't think its a memorable villain class. Call it ''the curse of blandness.'' The whole thing really needed to go back to the drawing table, which I did, and which resulted in the Villainous Fighter class. (I am far happier with THAT class.) --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 08:00, 8 December 2006 (MST)

== Good concept but… ==

I like very much the concept (“Insurance for afterlife”) but the implementation is… really disappointing. I was thinking of a Prestige Class for bargaining the best position in afterlife and what I discover really is Joe Fighter.

The concept opens up such a lot of opportunity; It deserves much better than that. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) 18:23, 19 March 2007 (MDT)

: Maybe we can make something out of this. What were you thinking that this class could be? Talk about that a little more. What are you seeing that I missed?--[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 21:23, 19 March 2007 (MDT)

::I go to sleep so just an idea for now: pact with a devil (souls of the killed will count for you when you'll trespass—the more souls, te better, maybe two other options for demon and yugoloth), a haven in the Lower Planes that this PrC slowly builds for itself… Well, consider what you will do as a player, to ensure yourself a confortable retirement. This PrC would do the same for its afterdeath. That may require looking at a diabolist-like PrC or even make this class a minor spellcaster. Diplomacy and Bluff may help too. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) 21:39, 19 March 2007 (MDT)

:::This sounds like a new XP-like system based on actions/kills. That's a complicated beast. That's not bad, but does involve more administrivia (which is generally cumbersome in play). The trick is how to make those fun rules that play out well for a fighter style character. Hmm...I'll think about some of these things.--[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 05:01, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

::::New XP-like system? No, I was not considering anything like this at all. Some feats would suffice, especially considering it is a NPC class. Let us say levels are gained by killing people and so are feats, like Minor Infernal Favour and so on. For sure, this class won't have any advantage during his lifetime from this—this is not the point. That is why this is a limited prestige classe. By taking some levels in this class, a Fighter voluntarily cripples himself in his lifetime, to better prepare himself for afterlife. Exactly like retirement. {{Unsigned|David Latapie|06:29, 20 March 2007 (MST)}}

== A Few Things to Pick At ==

I saw this on the recent changelist and figured that I would like to chime in too.

Charisma measures a character’s force of personality, persuasiveness, personal magnetism, ability to
lead, and physical attractiveness. This ability represents actual strength of personality, not
merely how one is perceived by others in a social setting.

I know this tears part of the class concept apart, but really -- low charisma means you are not respected at all. I don't see how having people not respect you would make you more feared. The bonus to intimidate seems cool, but really makes no sense. Adding to saving throws is fine however. {{Unsigned|Aarnott|09:31, 20 March 2007 (MST)}}

:Good point. If we decide to make the Blood Soldier a future high-ranking soldier in his afterlife, he must certainly be able to deal with devils, and high Charisma would make sense (not necessarily insanely high as for a [[SRD:Paladin (Class)|Paladin]], but still high). [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) 10:52, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

Since you can decrease charisma with a stat point can you also get into negative charisma scores?

I'm not sure where I read this, but a PrC apparently should not require an ability score (though it can require feats that do). I'm not really sure if that is valid though -- and this class could be an exception anyways because of the theme.

Then there is aura of courage. I don't get why it has this ability. It is an ability for leaders to inspire troops. If the PrC is to have a cha less than 10, it will not likely be the "leader" type.

I also think the class is a bit scattered. It has the low charisma theme (which disappears at 2nd level), the polearm theme (which is well done), and an armor spike theme.

Those are my thoughts, but I'm really not sure how to improve it without drastically changing the class. --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 10:31, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

:I believe it has to be changed, indeed. Or the introductory test has to. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) 10:52, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

::With everything else I've had to work on (like the SRD) I never came back to this prestige class. If you folks want to completely rewrite the entire idea, by all means, go for it. The negative charisma thing comes from the Drill Sergeant concept. They are the antithesis of what you think of as "charismatic." This class uses that to its advantage. In other words, true evil is ugly, and ugly gets you places in the underworld. The leadership abilities come from the fact that these tend to lead minions. I'll contribute ideas, but I won't drive the boat.

::Hmm. '''Unnatural Life (Su):''' Gain bonus hit points equal to twice your basic attack bonus. '''Demonic Brutality (Su):''' For killing so many good beings, you may now ''smite good'' 1 + Cha modifier per day, with bonus damage equal to your basic attack bonus. '''Infernal Resistance (Su):''' Gain elemental resistance 10 vs. fire. '''Priest Killer (Ex):''' You gain +4 to your saves against divine spell and any divine caster that you threaten gains a -4 to his concentration checks. {{Unsigned|Dmilewski|10:32, 20 March 2007 (MST)}}

:::I think that was one of the main things with 3rd ed. that Wizards was trying to change (besides removing THAC0 -- remember that? ''':-P'''). The concept of what charisma is. A drill sergeant would likely have a low charisma if he is disliked (he is not respected, but his position is respected). Are drill sergeants more intimidating because of their personality? Probably in real life a little, but it more has to do with their skills of intimidation rather than their force of personality. Charisma probably shouldn't matter to this class for this reason. I think I'll adopt this class should I get time. --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 12:51, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

== Complete Rewrite ==

I completely rewrote the class. This class now gains the [[Fiendish]] template.

I am now happier with the class. The focus works far better with the concept.

Right now, the class is five levels. Is there sufficient coolness in the class for ten levels? --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 13:14, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

:Possible "advanced" class features: Protection from Good, Smite Good, Fly, Summon (Blood Soldier), telepathy, teleportation, blasphemy (1/day). From [[half-fiend]]: Bat Wings, Natural Armor +1, Claw and Bite, Smite Good, Spell-Like Ability, Immune to Poison, Single Ability Increase.--[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 14:04, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

::You are right: the new class is much better. Problem with a tenth-level is that it will significantly cripple a character (for a much stronger character after death, of course). For an NPC, this is even better and for a PC even worse (well, except in very specific campaign where a Blood Soldier would certainly rule). So yes, a 10-level is doable as long as NPC remains the focus.

::As for the template, you said “Change the character's type to Outsider [Extraplanar, Evil]”. Shouldn't it be “Change the character's type to Outsider [Augemented Humanoid, Evil]”?

::Finally, about the powers: since the goal of a Blood Soldier is to get a good position in afterlife, I suggest that at least half of his power will not be redundant with his future fiendish position (like immunity to fire from Blood Soldier being overridden by his new body as a fiend). Because, should the power be redundant, you end up with a Blood Soldier having less and less of an edge as he climbs up the infernal hierarchy.

::Just some thoughts. Once again, this is a good build here (and I am an demanding person, I don't say “good build” to anyone :-) ). [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 14:13, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

:::Thanks. This class has potential to go places, but I'll only take it places if we get a good design on it. Right now, it's short, sweet, and works. It generates an interesting NPC. It's a good hook into a possible campaign to break up a Blood Soldier cult. That's a good NPC class in my book. --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 14:23, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

::::By default, any time type changes, the creature automatically gets the augmented subtype. Any exceptions are explicitly noted (e.g. the [[skeleton]]). This, however, brings up a question: Why does the PrC change the type to [[outsider]]? That's not part of the [[fiendish]] template.

::::Also, I think this should stay a 5 level PrC. (Allows 10 levels for the follow-up PrC. See below [[#Feat Requirements|discussion]].) —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 14:25, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

:::::There should definitely be something as a follow-up. I'm thinking "dead Blood Soldier" will be the only requirement for the class. For PC's, it's a mistake to create a class that only uses its best ability when it dies, but for a NPC, it's a useful plot-twist.

::::::Definitely a good idea, a follow-up PrC as a dead Blood Soldier! [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 14:58, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

:::::I can tweak this a bit. We'll add (Extraplanar) to his subtype. On dying, his subtype changes to Outsider (Extraplanar). (When you sell your soul to infernal powers, and you die, those powers come to collect.) --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 14:32, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

== Feat Requirements ==

The feat requirements (not prerequisites) Two-Weapon Fighting and Weapon Focus (polearm) seem a bit counter-intuitive, given that the only time one could benefit from both is to wield a polearm designed for a creature one size smaller.

Also, this PrC just begs for another transitional PrC to gain the [[half-fiend]] template. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 13:29, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

:You're just too quick off the mark. I was just fixing that. A fighter can now qualify for this for this class for his sixth level. :P We could call a half-fiend a Degenerate? A depraved butcher? Hmmm. Gotta think about that. That also begs for a [[Celestial]] and a [[half-celestial]] PrC. --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 13:51, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

::Blood Champion. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 14:37, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

:::Ooooh. So we can have a Blood Soldier (followed up with Blood Champion), a Celestial Soldier (followed up with Celestial Champion)? That sounds cool.--[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 14:48, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

::::Now you're speaking of it: The Blood Soldier is a [http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ei/20021208a&pf=true Transformational Prestige Class]. Let's see if there is something similar in official rules and how we can depart from this (the Champions as the dead follow-up is a great way to differ from the existing transformational classes).

::::I don't think a Celestial pendant would make sense: there is no mercenary mindset in the Heavens. In the Hells, one can bargain an insurance, but not in the Heavens, it just doesn't fit with the concept of Good (one can pursue power, but not pursue virtue). Cupidity, hunger for power, comes from the person, but Virtue descends upon the Heavens. One can buy himself a position in Hell, but not in Heavens, because there is no symmetry here (do I make myself understood? I'm not sure). Bottom-line: no Celestial Soldier possible (if it was, the Celestial Champion would have the Deathless template and should not be called Celestial because the contrary is Infernal, not Blood).

::::Of course, this is just a suggestion [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 16:03, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

Talk:Blood Soldier (3.5e Prestige Class)

2007-05-08T20:58:23Z

David Latapie: /* Complete Rewrite */

==Commentary==
The blood soldier is more meant as an NPC prestige class than a character class, although it should work as a character class, too. The idea is to have a character class that is accessible to "average" characters at levels 6-10. These characters are soldiers, so I decided to focus on footsoldier style weapons: polearms. You get some nice perks with the weapon, making it more flexible in a combat situation. The whole thing with armor spikes is to play up the whole "bad guy" aspect.

One aspect that I wanted to avoid was the "weird requirements" problems. I find that those prerequisites lead to very weird character designs. Since this class doesnt gain amazing powers, I can skip all that.

I do turn a dump stat into an advantage. Evil SHOULD be ugly, and be rewarded for it.

--[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 05:58, 24 March 2006 (MST)

Removed Die Hard, Iron Will, and Endurance as pre-reqs. Made the class too expensive. The class did not build on these feats. --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 08:02, 8 December 2006 (MST)

== Fort Save ==

Is it supposed to be a "good" save? —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] 11:21, 23 October 2006 (MDT)

:Corrected "Fort" with a good progression using Blackguard/Dwarven Defender/Dualist as a reference. --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 12:52, 23 October 2006 (MDT)

== Rating - 5/10==

'''On a scale of 1 to 10, where 1 is abysmal, 5 is adequate, and 10 is damned inspired and well implemented, I rate this entry:''' a 5. I think its balance is fine, but the class never really achieves a decent focus. I don't think its a memorable villain class. Call it ''the curse of blandness.'' The whole thing really needed to go back to the drawing table, which I did, and which resulted in the Villainous Fighter class. (I am far happier with THAT class.) --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 08:00, 8 December 2006 (MST)

== Good concept but… ==

I like very much the concept (“Insurance for afterlife”) but the implementation is… really disappointing. I was thinking of a Prestige Class for bargaining the best position in afterlife and what I discover really is Joe Fighter.

The concept opens up such a lot of opportunity; It deserves much better than that. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) 18:23, 19 March 2007 (MDT)

: Maybe we can make something out of this. What were you thinking that this class could be? Talk about that a little more. What are you seeing that I missed?--[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 21:23, 19 March 2007 (MDT)

::I go to sleep so just an idea for now: pact with a devil (souls of the killed will count for you when you'll trespass—the more souls, te better, maybe two other options for demon and yugoloth), a haven in the Lower Planes that this PrC slowly builds for itself… Well, consider what you will do as a player, to ensure yourself a confortable retirement. This PrC would do the same for its afterdeath. That may require looking at a diabolist-like PrC or even make this class a minor spellcaster. Diplomacy and Bluff may help too. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) 21:39, 19 March 2007 (MDT)

:::This sounds like a new XP-like system based on actions/kills. That's a complicated beast. That's not bad, but does involve more administrivia (which is generally cumbersome in play). The trick is how to make those fun rules that play out well for a fighter style character. Hmm...I'll think about some of these things.--[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 05:01, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

::::New XP-like system? No, I was not considering anything like this at all. Some feats would suffice, especially considering it is a NPC class. Let us say levels are gained by killing people and so are feats, like Minor Infernal Favour and so on. For sure, this class won't have any advantage during his lifetime from this—this is not the point. That is why this is a limited prestige classe. By taking some levels in this class, a Fighter voluntarily cripples himself in his lifetime, to better prepare himself for afterlife. Exactly like retirement. {{Unsigned|David Latapie|06:29, 20 March 2007 (MST)}}

== A Few Things to Pick At ==

I saw this on the recent changelist and figured that I would like to chime in too.

Charisma measures a character’s force of personality, persuasiveness, personal magnetism, ability to
lead, and physical attractiveness. This ability represents actual strength of personality, not
merely how one is perceived by others in a social setting.

I know this tears part of the class concept apart, but really -- low charisma means you are not respected at all. I don't see how having people not respect you would make you more feared. The bonus to intimidate seems cool, but really makes no sense. Adding to saving throws is fine however. {{Unsigned|Aarnott|09:31, 20 March 2007 (MST)}}

:Good point. If we decide to make the Blood Soldier a future high-ranking soldier in his afterlife, he must certainly be able to deal with devils, and high Charisma would make sense (not necessarily insanely high as for a [[SRD:Paladin (Class)|Paladin]], but still high). [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) 10:52, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

Since you can decrease charisma with a stat point can you also get into negative charisma scores?

I'm not sure where I read this, but a PrC apparently should not require an ability score (though it can require feats that do). I'm not really sure if that is valid though -- and this class could be an exception anyways because of the theme.

Then there is aura of courage. I don't get why it has this ability. It is an ability for leaders to inspire troops. If the PrC is to have a cha less than 10, it will not likely be the "leader" type.

I also think the class is a bit scattered. It has the low charisma theme (which disappears at 2nd level), the polearm theme (which is well done), and an armor spike theme.

Those are my thoughts, but I'm really not sure how to improve it without drastically changing the class. --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 10:31, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

:I believe it has to be changed, indeed. Or the introductory test has to. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) 10:52, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

::With everything else I've had to work on (like the SRD) I never came back to this prestige class. If you folks want to completely rewrite the entire idea, by all means, go for it. The negative charisma thing comes from the Drill Sergeant concept. They are the antithesis of what you think of as "charismatic." This class uses that to its advantage. In other words, true evil is ugly, and ugly gets you places in the underworld. The leadership abilities come from the fact that these tend to lead minions. I'll contribute ideas, but I won't drive the boat.

::Hmm. '''Unnatural Life (Su):''' Gain bonus hit points equal to twice your basic attack bonus. '''Demonic Brutality (Su):''' For killing so many good beings, you may now ''smite good'' 1 + Cha modifier per day, with bonus damage equal to your basic attack bonus. '''Infernal Resistance (Su):''' Gain elemental resistance 10 vs. fire. '''Priest Killer (Ex):''' You gain +4 to your saves against divine spell and any divine caster that you threaten gains a -4 to his concentration checks. {{Unsigned|Dmilewski|10:32, 20 March 2007 (MST)}}

:::I think that was one of the main things with 3rd ed. that Wizards was trying to change (besides removing THAC0 -- remember that? ''':-P'''). The concept of what charisma is. A drill sergeant would likely have a low charisma if he is disliked (he is not respected, but his position is respected). Are drill sergeants more intimidating because of their personality? Probably in real life a little, but it more has to do with their skills of intimidation rather than their force of personality. Charisma probably shouldn't matter to this class for this reason. I think I'll adopt this class should I get time. --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 12:51, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

== Complete Rewrite ==

I completely rewrote the class. This class now gains the [[Fiendish]] template.

I am now happier with the class. The focus works far better with the concept.

Right now, the class is five levels. Is there sufficient coolness in the class for ten levels? --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 13:14, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

:Possible "advanced" class features: Protection from Good, Smite Good, Fly, Summon (Blood Soldier), telepathy, teleportation, blasphemy (1/day). From [[half-fiend]]: Bat Wings, Natural Armor +1, Claw and Bite, Smite Good, Spell-Like Ability, Immune to Poison, Single Ability Increase.--[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 14:04, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

::You are right: the new class is much better. Problem with a tenth-level is that it will significantly cripple a character (for a much stronger character after death, of course). For an NPC, this is even better and for a PC even worse (well, except in very specific campaign where a Blood Soldier would certainly rule). So yes, a 10-level is doable as long as NPC remains the focus.

::As for the template, you said “Change the character's type to Outsider [Extraplanar, Evil]”. Shouldn't it be “Change the character's type to Outsider [Augemented Humanoid, Evil]”?

::Finally, about the powers: since the goal of a Blood Soldier is to get a good position in afterlife, I suggest that at least half of his power will not be redundant with his future fiendish position (like immunity to fire from Blood Soldier being overridden by his new body as a fiend). Because, should the power be redundant, you end up with a Blood Soldier having less and less of an edge as he climbs up the infernal hierarchy.

::Just some thoughts. Once again, this is a good build here (and I am an demanding person, I don't say “good build” to anyone :-) ). [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 14:13, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

:::Thanks. This class has potential to go places, but I'll only take it places if we get a good design on it. Right now, it's short, sweet, and works. It generates an interesting NPC. It's a good hook into a possible campaign to break up a Blood Soldier cult. That's a good NPC class in my book. --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 14:23, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

::::By default, any time type changes, the creature automatically gets the augmented subtype. Any exceptions are explicitly noted (e.g. the [[skeleton]]). This, however, brings up a question: Why does the PrC change the type to [[outsider]]? That's not part of the [[fiendish]] template.

::::Also, I think this should stay a 5 level PrC. (Allows 10 levels for the follow-up PrC. See below [[#Feat Requirements|discussion]].) —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 14:25, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

:::::There should definitely be something as a follow-up. I'm thinking "dead Blood Soldier" will be the only requirement for the class. For PC's, it's a mistake to create a class that only uses its best ability when it dies, but for a NPC, it's a useful plot-twist.

::::::Definitely a good idea, a follow-up PrC as a dead Blood Soldier! [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 14:58, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

:::::I can tweak this a bit. We'll add (Extraplanar) to his subtype. On dying, his subtype changes to Outsider (Extraplanar). (When you sell your soul to infernal powers, and you die, those powers come to collect.) --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 14:32, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

== Feat Requirements ==

The feat requirements (not prerequisites) Two-Weapon Fighting and Weapon Focus (polearm) seem a bit counter-intuitive, given that the only time one could benefit from both is to wield a polearm designed for a creature one size smaller.

Also, this PrC just begs for another transitional PrC to gain the [[half-fiend]] template. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 13:29, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

:You're just too quick off the mark. I was just fixing that. A fighter can now qualify for this for this class for his sixth level. :P We could call a half-fiend a Degenerate? A depraved butcher? Hmmm. Gotta think about that. That also begs for a [[Celestial]] and a [[half-celestial]] PrC. --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 13:51, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

::Blood Champion. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 14:37, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

:::Ooooh. So we can have a Blood Soldier (followed up with Blood Champion), a Celestial Soldier (followed up with Celestial Champion)? That sounds cool.--[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 14:48, 8 May 2007 (MDT)

Talk:Blood Soldier (3.5e Prestige Class)

2007-05-08T20:13:30Z

David Latapie: /* Complete Rewrite */

Talk:Magus (3.5e Class)

2007-04-16T22:23:21Z

David Latapie: /* Ill effects */

Put your comments about this class here, I'd love to get some more feedback! Ideally, I'd also love people to do some playtesting and post their findings about balance comparisons, etc. -Astrimedes- {{Unsigned|69.214.205.77|18:39, 6 March 2006 (MST)}}

:This sounds a lot like a wizard with the spell points variant from Unearthed Arcana. -Drago Nero {{Unsigned|65.80.148.63|01:05, 10 March 2006 (MST)}}

::It is a lot like that. However, I was unhappy with the numbers derived for their spellpoints system, and couldn't really find the way they went about determining them. Also, I figured this was a really good way to differentiate a sorcerer variant from the wizard, letting the spellpoints represent a much more "natural" spellcasting feel, as opposed to the wizards' regimented "X spells of level X per day" system. It's essentially my idea of a sorcerer replacement, truth be told. Also, I attempted to give them some much-needed flavor. -Astrimedes- {{Unsigned|69.218.186.139|17:39, 27 March 2006 (MST)}}

== Great spell point system! ==

I love the spell point system, I had been thinking of something based on the cost of a scroll for the spell (e.g. 1 point per 100 GP, and then giving points based on what spells a mage could cast), but that gave a mage a LOT of 1st level spells...
On a completely unrelated note, The feat which gives an AC bonus from the aura is probably broken, that much AC is pretty impressive. I could see 1/2, rounded up...[[User:Aaror|Aaror]] 18:26, 28 January 2007 (MST)

:Hm... This is a spellcasting class, however I see what you mean. The reason I see this feat as broken is because this feat does not apply a static benefit, it increases as the character increases. To balance this out I would say make a lesser, normal, and greater version of this feat. The lesser would have prerequisites of Magical Aura +2, and would grant ''up to'' a +2 AC because of magical aura. The normal version would do ''up to'' a +3, and the greater ''up to'' a +4. Do you think this would balance it, or do you like you way more? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 18:59, 28 January 2007 (MST)

::hmm, well now you really have me thinking, compareing this to dodge, it is already good with a plus one, and there is no such thing as greater dodge. So I would have 4 feats, in sequence, allowing +1 at 1st level, +2 with +1 as prereq and which can't be taken until aura +2, etc. This is still better than many feats, but is reasonably balanced as the aura itself has some negatives.[[User:Aaror|Aaror]] 16:29, 29 January 2007 (MST)

:::Alright, go ahead and fix them then. By the way, I like the first one starting at a +1 to AC not a +2 like I said above. Making it only a +1 would balance it with Dodge (like you said above). --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 21:54, 29 January 2007 (MST)

::::Looks better, however does the overwhelming work when epic? If so it should be changed to make it only work with a certain bonus as well so the benefit is not ever-increasing. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 18:19, 30 January 2007 (MST)

:::::fixed--[[User:Aaror|Aaror]] 08:44, 31 January 2007 (MST)

::::::Loos good, thanks for doing that. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 10:36, 31 January 2007 (MST)

== Ill effects ==

"Using solely his own essence to repeatedly channel high-powered magic can harm the magus. The magus may only cast his highest level known spells a number of times per day equal to 1/3 of his Charisma score without ill effects."
Looking at the table, it doesn't look like he can get more than 3 of his highest level spells at one time anyway... so unless a character playing this class has an 8 or lower in CHA it doesn't seem like this would matter. Could you clarify this? Cool class anyway ^.^ [[User:Furbuggy|Furbuggy]] 06:39, 16 April 2007 (MDT)

:Look at the '''channeller''' in ''Player’s Options: Spells and Magic'' (AD&D2, some say 2.5). Really worth it. And for a more “hardcore” variant, considers either [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_d20_Magic Advanced d20 Magic] or Dragon Warriors’ Mystics ([http://www.the-underdogs.info/showbook.php?id=31 page], [http://www.the-underdogs.info/extras/gamebooks/dragonw2.zip direct download]). [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 16:23, 16 April 2007 (MDT)

Talk:Magus (3.5e Class)

2007-04-16T19:50:27Z

David Latapie: /* Ill effects */

User talk:David Latapie

2007-04-14T10:06:54Z

David Latapie: /* You seem a smart man... */

{{Messages of Interest|messages=

{{MoI-Row
|page=Talk:Druid (Evaluational Base Class Layout)
|notifier=Sledged
|date_time=10:27, 21 March 2007 (MDT)
}}

}}

==Welcome to D&D Wiki==

Hello {{PAGENAME}}, and welcome to D&D Wiki! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like D&D Wiki and decide to stay. I am the owner of the site, and if you have a question feel free to ask me, however when contacting anyone on D&D Wiki through talk pages please sign your name using four tildes <nowiki>(~~~~)</nowiki>; this will automatically produce your name and the date. Also, if you want to help D&D Wiki but just don't know how [http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=User_talk:Green_Dragon&action=edit&section=new drop me a note] and I'll see what I can do. However, when dropping me a note please tell me how much time you would like to spend working, how well you know the Wiki Format, and how well you know D&D. I hope you enjoy editing here and being a D&D Wikian! If you need help ask me on my talk page, or just right here. Again, welcome! --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:18, 18 March 2007 (MDT)

== Your signature ==

Whenever I see you make a comment, you have this fancy signature thing after your user page link. How do you do that, if not manually? I know it can be done on other wikis, but I've not been able to find it here. Thanks! [[User:Armond|Armond]] 15:31, 26 March 2007 (MDT)

: Copy/Paste and the "my preferences" link at the top right of the wiki pages. Be sure to check the box that says "Raw Signatures (without automatic link)." —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 15:37, 26 March 2007 (MDT)

::Seems like a lot of work, especially when people like me don't edit from only one computer (I'm averaging like three a day)... Thanks anyway. [[User:Armond|Armond]] 15:48, 27 March 2007 (MDT)

:::As long as you are authentified when editing, that shall make no problem, be it one, three or sixteen different computers. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 18:28, 27 March 2007 (MDT)

== You seem a smart man... ==

...so could you tell me how to make a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> tag have a certain width? My resources aren't helping. Specifically, I want to make [http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/User:Armond/Archived-build this template] slimmer so there isn't the blue stuff all over the side. Thanks much! [[User:Armond|Armond]] 14:57, 13 April 2007 (MDT)
:I'm not sure I understood:
:*you want it smaller, but centered: <code>margin: 0 20%</code>
:*you want it on the right/left: <code>margin:top right bottom left</code> (clockwise)
 [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 15:29, 13 April 2007 (MDT)

::I want the width to scale like I can make a horizontal rule's width scale if I use HTML, if possible. Does that help? [[User:Armond|Armond]] 23:47, 13 April 2007 (MDT)
:::Not really, I still don't see what you want. I you want something to “scale”, to adapt to the size, use relative units like <code>%</code> or <code>em</code> (this is what you did, so that would be OK here). Your present example is already using HTML, so here too, I can't see what you are talking about.

<div name="Archived build" class="boilerplate metadata" style="background-color: lightblue; margin: 0 2.5%; padding: 0 10px; border: 1px solid #aaa;">
'''This build is an archive. Please do not edit it. Instead, please discuss changes to this build at its copy (''[[{{{1}}}]]'').'''
</div>

<div name="Archived build" class="boilerplate metadata" style="background-color: lightblue; margin: 0 20%; padding: 0 10px; border: 1px solid #aaa;">
'''This build is an archive. Please do not edit it. Instead, please discuss changes to this build at its copy (''[[{{{1}}}]]'').'''
</div>

<div name="Archived build" class="boilerplate metadata" style="background-color: lightblue; margin: 0 0 0 40%; padding: 0 10px; border: 1px solid #aaa;">
'''This build is an archive. Please do not edit it. Instead, please discuss changes to this build at its copy (''[[{{{1}}}]]'').'''
</div>

Does one example look like what you wwant? [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 03:19, 14 April 2007 (MDT)

:2 and 3, depending on the page. I assume that if I change <code>margin: 0 0 0</code> to <code>margin: 0</code> it'll become left-aligned again? [[User:Armond|Armond]] 03:39, 14 April 2007 (MDT)
::Both 2 and 3 is not possible. 2 means "center" whilst 3 means right-aligned. Two appearances, two styles. That being said, if you have access to the CSS, you can just make two rules:

HTML
<code>body id="main"</code>
<code>div id="archived_build"</code>

CSS
<code>#main #archived-build {margin:0 20%}</code>

HTML
<code>body id="file"</code>
<code>div id="archived_build"</code>

CSS
<code>#file #archived-build {margin:0 0 0 40%}</code> <-- stricter
OR
<code>#file #archived-build {margin-left:40%}</code> <-- more liberal

both the stricter and more liberal are OK. None are better, as it really depends on you page. I tend to favour the strict version, but there is time where it is better to go liberal.

Here, we added an <code>id</code> to the various situation (main page and file page, for instance). Now that the various scenarios are discriminated, we can say when we want center and when we want right-aligned.
<hr />

Beware:
*<code>margin: a b c d</code> (4 values)
*<code>margin: a+c b d</code> (3 values) (I seldom use this one, as it is misleading)
*<code>margin: a+c b+d</code> (2 values)
*<code>margin: a+b+c+d</code> (1 value)

Naming is clockwise: ''a'' is <code>top</code>, ''b'' is <code>right</code>, ''c'' is <code>bottom</code> and ''d'' is <code>left</code> (this works for <code>padding</code> or <code>border</code> too, BTW).

<code>margin:0</code> means no margin at all. I'm not sure, but I think it will try to take the whole document (margin:0 would result in width:100%). If you want center without taking up the whole space, use '''<code>margin:auto</code>'''.

Hope this helps. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 04:06, 14 April 2007 (MDT)

User talk:David Latapie

2007-04-14T09:19:43Z

David Latapie: /* You seem a smart man... */

User talk:David Latapie

2007-04-13T21:29:56Z

David Latapie: /* You seem a smart man... */

User talk:David Latapie

2007-04-13T21:14:46Z

David Latapie: /* You seem a smart man... */

User talk:Green Dragon

2007-04-12T11:40:40Z

David Latapie: /* Mediawiki collaboration */

{{Messages of Interest|messages=
{{MoI-Row
|page=Talk:Main Page
|section=Proposed Color Scheme #3.1
|notifier=EldritchNumen
|date_time=15:16, 28 February 2007 (MST)
}}

}}

{{Archives
|label1= Archive 1 (Discussions 1 – 30)
|label2= Archive 2 (Discussions 31 – 60)
|label3= Archive 3 (Discussions 61 – 90)
|label4= Archive 4 (Discussions 91 – 120)
}}

== RE: Divine Evoker ==

dont worry, i just dont have alot of time on a computer. The class is finished now. {{Unsigned|Alabastor|08:21, 23 February 2007 (MST)}}

:It's fine, as long as you got it done. Thanks for adding it. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:25, 24 February 2007 (MST)

== WikiWorld ==

Is anyone interested in collaborating to work on Wiki World? --[[User:Kamin|Kamin]] 18:04, 24 February 2007 (MST)

:I would contact [[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]]. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:53, 25 February 2007 (MST)

== Question on Policy ==

Hey. I just nominated myself for adminship ([[Requests for Adminship/EldritchNumen]]). What is the policy on advertising? I know, above all, that I should not do any myself. Should it be put on the main page in news? I'm curious because I'm afraid that few people will notice it in recent changes and there will be no voting or discussion... I defer whatever decisions are to be made (if any) to you. I just want to make sure that people know I applied so they can discuss the merit of accepting or rejecting me. Thanks! —[[User:EldritchNumen|EldritchNumen]] 16:33, 25 February 2007 (MST)

:News is the place, I will add it. Thanks for bringing this up before doing it yourself. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 17:23, 25 February 2007 (MST)

== Still alive ==

Alive if you wanted to know. --[[User:Pz.Az.04Maus|Pz.Az.04Maus]] 02:34, 26 February 2007 (MST)

:Thats good. If you want to help out with something let me know, seeing that I have not seen you make edits in a while. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:31, 26 February 2007 (MST)

== Proposed Color Scheme Page ==

Hey. I made the page for the [[Proposed Color Scheme]]. All that needs to be done is a link to this page (Proposed Color Scheme) needs to be added to the News on the main page. The caption could be "DnD Wiki is undergoing a search for a new color scheme. Vote [[Proposed Color Scheme|here]] and tell us what you think!". Feel free to change the proposed color page as it seems best to you. —[[User:EldritchNumen|EldritchNumen]] 01:06, 1 March 2007 (MST)

:Done. Thanks for making that page. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 15:19, 1 March 2007 (MST)

== Wikify? ==

Well, I haven't been on here in a while, and I was looking through the site today, and saw that both articles I've posted need to be 'Wikified'. Problem is, I really don't have a clue what that means. Could you possibly explain so I can fix that problem? [[User:Maverick Wolf|Maverick Wolf]] 10:04, 1 March 2007 (EST)

:To Wikify is a term that means that something needs to be made correctly formatted. So, your class is not formatted correctly, and it needs to be. Formatted correctly refers to the [[DnD Class Preload]] which includes a class="d20" table, bolded abilities, and more. I can wikify your pages if you want, would you like me to? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 14:58, 1 March 2007 (MST)

== Chat ==

i've posted a comment on the discussion panel about the "static field, created by Donnavin Snowolf". could you give your opinion on that?

thanks {{Unsigned|Lucccfilho|00:45, 5 March 2007 (MST)}}

:Yes. I will right now. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:33, 5 March 2007 (MST)

::Do you have msn, ggtalk? --[[User:Luccfilho|Luccfilho]] 23:27, 6 March 2007 (MST)

:::I have gmail (which I rarely stay on for more time than it takes to answer my emails). My email at gmail it great.wyrm.green.dragon@gmail.com and if you catch me on gmail I should be avaible to chat. Why? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 08:54, 7 March 2007 (MST)

== Thanks! ==

Heh, one day into being back to this wiki and you've already helped me out a lot. Thanks much; I thought I mighta missed signing on one of the places I rated, but I didn't have time to check where. The MoI think is handy too.

On a different note, I recently noticed that [[Web]] redirected to [[Web (SRD Spell)]], which redirected to [[SRD: Web (Spell)]]. However, Web itself only redirected once, to Web (SRD), and then the redirect code on Web (SRD) didn't kick in, leaving me on a redirect page. I've changed Web to go directly to SRD: Web, but I was wondering if this was something you should know. [[User:Armond|Armond]] 11:58, 7 March 2007 (MST)

:No problem with the help - I don't mind at all. Also, the things you are talking about are called "Double Redirects" and all of them can be found on the [[Special:Double Redirects|Double redirects]] page. If you have some spare time these double redirects need to be fixed - just like you did with the redirect to [[SRD: Web (Spell)]]. If you don't have any spare time someone else will get around to them as it is not vital they get fixed that soon. Thanks. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 15:28, 7 March 2007 (MST)

::Agh, double redirects, the plague of every wiki. Will get on it when I have time. [[User:Armond|Armond]] 10:48, 8 March 2007 (MST)

:::Pages for deletion due to typos in the name: [[Initiate of Humillity(DnD Exalted Feat)]], [[Royal Cathnakari brestplate (DnD Equipment)]], [[Royal Cathnakari breastplate (DnD Equipment)]], and more to come... Mind if I just keep adding them here? [[User:Armond|Armond]] 10:56, 8 March 2007 (MST)

::::The place to add them is [[Candidates for Deletion]]. If you add them there then you won't clutter up Green Dragon's user page, which he might appreciate! ''':)''' (I tease, of course). I'll delete those three for you, but go ahead and add ones in the future to [[Candidates for Deletion]].
::::'''Addendum:''' please make sure that no other pages link to the page in question before you nominate it for deletion. You can check this using "What links here" in the toolbox on the left. —[[User:EldritchNumen|EldritchNumen]] 11:42, 8 March 2007 (MST)

:::::Where I come from that's the admin's job >.> But ok. I couldn't find a Template:Delete, which is what I'm used to, so I put them here. Thanks for your help. (Friendly people on this wiki.) [[User:156.1.60.60|156.1.60.60]] 12:01, 8 March 2007 (MST) <-- [[User:Armond|Armond]]'s school's IP address (what I get for not logging in again...)

::::::A deletion candidate template sounds like a good idea. Would you mind throwing one together? —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 12:13, 8 March 2007 (MST)

:::::::With a table it may be a good idea to switch [[Candidates for Deletion]] into a dlpc enviroment... What do you guys think? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:09, 9 March 2007 (MST)

== I'm trokking and i messed up my stats ==

:''Moved to [[User talk:EldritchNumen#I'm trokking and i messed up my stats]]''.

== Thanks for the PM ==

Yeah I'm new thank you for the Pm...Somthing I would like to ask though, could a bit more attention be paid to the anti-paladin (this is the one I was trying to help on) and other obscure classes. I am aware that at this moment Rakankou is working on it but I belive it was created never looked at. This makes me wonder what other classes,Items, and spells have been overlooked or given Mis-information. With that out of the way I shall be adding some more Prestige and regular classes to the SRD section Some that I'm sure are in books people have either not purchased yet or just overlooked.
[[User:Da Hoopindexter|Da Hoopindexter]] 20:51, 7 March 2007 (MST)

:No problem with the PM. Also, their are quite a lot of "overlooked" classes - they are normally distinquishable by their low balance ratings. If you want to help out a class just find one with a low balance rating and read over the rating - figuring out what needs to be changed. Make some changes and I am sure it will be re-rated with your changes in mind. Look over the new rating and consider again, all the while while conversing with the person that is rating the certain class. This is the easiest way to help out classes. Also, are you planning on adding [[OGL]] content? I am asking because not all published material by Wizards of the Coast is [[OGL]]. Before posting anything that is not homebrew make sure that it is [[OGL]] for then it is okay to post. Thanks. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 21:45, 7 March 2007 (MST)

::I am aware that quite a few things have been published with the [[OGL]]. I am talking about material from Stormwrack, Draconomicon, and a few others. --[[User:Da Hoopindexter|Da Hoopindexter]] 05:12, 8 March 2007 (MST)

:::Actually, almost all of that material is '''NOT''' OGL material. Check the inside front of the books (on the page with the copyright information). If it reads, "None of the content in this book is Open Game Content" then you can't add anything. I think stormwrack and the draconomicon both fit into that category... sorry. —[[User:EldritchNumen|EldritchNumen]] 06:09, 8 March 2007 (MST)

::::ok I see now thank you for Clearing things up...[[User:Da Hoopindexter|Da Hoopindexter]] 14:49, 8 March 2007 (MST)

:::::Normally its a better idea to use [[D&D Wiki:Items to be added]] if you want to help with adding content. Give [[D&D Wiki:Items to be added]] a try; see if you like it. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:02, 9 March 2007 (MST)

== Link Creation ==

while i am quick to adapt to the format of the tables and what not, i still am not abke to figure out how to place a link on a page (mostly for my user page) ==[[User:Alabastor|Alabastor]] 07:20, 8 March 2007 (MST)==

:Place brackets (on a qwerty keyboard, next to the p) around the name of the page you want to link to. For example, <nowiki>[[Main Page]]</nowiki> will link to the main page; <nowiki>[[User:Alabastor]]</nowiki> will link to your user page. (Be sure to check that you have the page namespaces, such as the User:, in the link or it won't work properly.) You can also give a link a caption, of sorts, by placing a "pipe line" (right above the enter key on a qwerty, use the shift key) between the name of the page you're linking to and what you want to call it. So, for example, <nowiki>[[User:Alabastor|Visit my page!]]</nowiki> will show up as [[User:Alabastor|Visit my page!]] [[User:Armond|Armond]] 10:47, 8 March 2007 (MST)

::thank you ==[[User:Alabastor|Alabastor]] 06:37, 9 March 2007 (MST)==

:::It should be noted that this will only work with links that link to something on this site - there is a different method for external links. If you are not 100% sure about basic formatting a good place to look is [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Editing WP:Help:Editing]. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:07, 9 March 2007 (MST)

== Invitation for alpha testing ==

Hey there. If you have time on your hands, I'd like to ask you to take a look at [[User:Armond/Deadly Assassin (DnD Prestige Class)]] for balance. There are a few things I'm concerned about, which I've listed at the very top of the page's coding in comment brackets. I feel it's only fair to warn you, however, that I've introduced a couple new game mechanics in that class, so it will likely take you a while to read and understand it all - but if you have the time and are willing, I'd really appreciate your input. If not, no worries, but if you know someone else who might be willing to help me find the bugs, I'd appreciate it if you'd let them know. Again, if you can't you can't, and I appreciate the thought all the same. Thanks! [[User:Armond|Armond]] 00:41, 13 March 2007 (MDT)

== Rokahnar (DnD Campaign Setting) ==

:''Moved to [[Talk:Rokahnar (DnD Campaign Setting)#Updates]]''.

== Locked double redirects ==

If you would...

*<s>[[Vulnerability to Energy (SRD Creature Ability)]] to [[SRD:Vulnerability to Energy (Special Ability)]]</s>
*<s>[[Gaze (SRD Creature Ability)]] to [[SRD:Gaze (Special Ability)]]</s>
*<s>[[Telepathy (SRD Creature Ability)]] to [[SRD:Telepathy (Special Ability)]]</s>
*<s>[[Spells (SRD Creature Ability)]] to [[SRD:Spells (Special Ability)]]</s>
*<s>[[Spell Resistance (SRD Creature Ability)]] to [[SRD:Spell Resistance and Spell Immunity (Special Ability)]]</s>
*<s>[[Special Abilities (SRD Creature Ability)]] to [[SRD:Special Abilities Overview (Rules)]]</s>

Will post more unless you protest :P [[User:Armond|Armond]] 12:37, 13 March 2007 (MDT)

:I just fixed those. Also, you can either post the locked double redirects here (if their are not too many) or I can look at [[Special:DoubleRedirects]] and fix them if their are a lot of locked ones. Your call. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 18:15, 13 March 2007 (MDT)

::Thanks bunches. There's still over 500 double redirects, though, and those are the only three I've found so far out of the 100 or so I've done. If I find a bunch of locked ones I'll leave them alone and let you know (I go at them from the back of the list to the front, so they'll all be left at the back). Again, thanks. As a friend of mine once said, mod powers indeed rule. [[User:Armond|Armond]] 22:32, 13 March 2007 (MDT)

:::Okay, I will work on them as time permits. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:39, 13 March 2007 (MDT)

== Proposal for a new entry at preload ==

Hello,

As you can see at [[Acolyte of Compassion (DnD_Exalted_Feat)|Acolyte of Compassion]], I manually added an entry, '''Pre-requisite for:'''. I humbly suggest you to add it to pre-load, with a value of ''none'' when a feat has no relation.

Have a nice day. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) 11:27, 18 March 2007 (MDT)

:Before I add that I have a simple question. Does the "'''Pre-requisite for:'''" look better on the top (where I just added it) or on the bottom (where you had it)? Once we figure that out I will be more than happy to change the pre-load template. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:14, 18 March 2007 (MDT)

::Hello Green Dragon and thank you for your warm welcome! Since both '''Requirements''' and '''Pre-requisite for:''' are semantically connected, I would either:
::* put '''requirements''' at the beginning and '''Pre-requisite for:''' at the end (chronological order, sort of) or
::* put them on the same line, with '''requirements''' on the left and '''Pre-requisite for:''' on the right. In this case, they would be on the top. As an additionnal advantage, they could both be in the same container (<code>div</code>), which I think would make them easier to manage. My preference goes for this one (which also take into consideration your proposal) but this is something I prefer not to do myself, as it requires deep change in the layout, something I don't think I have the credentials to do.
::Hope this helps. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) 12:26, 18 March 2007 (MDT)

:::Hm... Currently WotC does not have a section for "'''Pre-requisite for:'''" so I do not think it should part of the feats main area. I think above or below the feats header may be the best choice. Currently I changed [[Acolyte of Compassion (DnD Exalted Feat)|Acolyte of Compassion]] so it is above the header, does this look better or worse than above the "Back to" footer? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 18:53, 19 March 2007 (MDT)
::::I understand you want to stick with WotC formatting (or at least show the difference between regular formating and our additions. That being said, their formatting sucks (a particularly obvious example is ''Weapon Supremacy'' in PHII. I created a new template to better illustrate what I was thinking about, but the limitations of D&dDwiki do not allow me to display it accurately (you would have to change the settings to make it work). 
<nowiki><div></nowiki>
<nowiki>Requisites:</nowiki>
<nowiki>Prerequisites for:</nowiki>
<nowiki></div></nowiki>
<nowiki><div style="clear:both"></div></nowiki>
<nowiki>Lorem ipsum dolor</nowiki>
::::I do not know you level of HTML understanding. Tell me if you do not understand this code. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) 07:18, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

:::::I'd say add it at the bottom, because unlike the rest of the feat information, it's subject to change based on user-submitted feats. Every time a feat is added that uses the first one as a prereq, the first feat's page has to be changed to add the new feat to the list. Also, if this is added, I say add a '''Required For''' section for PrCs that have the feat as a requirement. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 09:11, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

::::::I'm still for the top however this discussion should not be taking place here. This needs to be moved to [[Talk:DnD Feats]]. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 23:06, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

== Me and D&D Wiki ==

As a reply for your welcome request:
* '''how much time you would like to spend working:''' Not much and this would be spelling/typo/layout. I am more a GURPS person and enclined to minimalism, that GURPS achieved better than D20. I am presently working on ''Lone Wolf'' RPG, which is D20. This explains that.
* '''how well you know the Wiki Format:''' fairly well, as I created most of the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Forgotten_Realms WikiProject Forgotten Realms] and the [http://towerofthesun.com/wiki/ TotSwiki]. I am not an expert, just an advanced user. For instance, most of the template/macro is unknown to me.
* '''how well you know D&D:''' fairly well too. I played AD&D2 intensively for three years, I read a lot of AD&D2 and DD&D3 rulebooks. I hope to make things efficient by, for instance, avoid ''data fragmentation'' (pieces of data everywhere and one has to check several site ton understanf the whole of it) and to attain ''minimalism'' (for instance, by removing redundancy). Clean, elegant, geeky. Something that attracted me in GURPS, by the way.
Voilà! [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) 12:34, 18 March 2007 (MDT)

:Oh. Well, welcome again. If you want to help out, and have spare time, you could start with some cross referencing to the SRD and other places on D&D Wiki. Thats a job that always needs to get done (along with double redirects)... --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:06, 19 March 2007 (MDT)

== On Stacking—inherit/cascade ==
A question I'm considering is the one of stacking:
* For now, effects stack and to know an advanced feat’s power, one has to check the previous one too (BAD). On the other hand, a change in a previous feat immediately affect the higher one (GOOD). In geek-tongue, this is <code>inherit</code> or “cascading”.
* If effects of feats do not stack (instead of “master gives +3, stacks with acolyte”,“master gives +5 and do not stack with previous levels”), they we can see all capabilites of an über-feat at a glance (GOOD). But it also means that inheritance is broken, so if we change a lower feat, we have to manually change the higher ones (BAD)

I would tend to favour the present, first solution, but would like to know if you already considered this. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) 12:44, 18 March 2007 (MDT)

:Bring this up on [[Talk:DnD Feats]] as my talk page is not the place for the community to decide about this. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:07, 19 March 2007 (MDT)

== Code foresight ==

[[DnD Weapon Group Feats]] — <code>- style="vertical-align: top;"</code> is visible. {{Unsigned|David Latapie|12:36, 18 March 2007 (MST)}}

:Fixed. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 18:54, 19 March 2007 (MDT)

== Links for NBoF ==
Hi,

You may consider adding relevant links for NBoF articles, like for pre-requisites ([[Up_And_Down_(DnD_General_and_Fighter_Feat)|example]])). A great advantage of d20srd.org is the amount on cross-references. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) 13:36, 18 March 2007 (MDT)

:Adding wiki links is always a job that needs to be done — I will do them when I have time. However, on non-locked pages, you can add them all you want ''':)'''. I would say make links to the SRD on classes and continue onwards from that point — if you have spare time. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 18:58, 19 March 2007 (MDT)

::Ideally, recourse to massive transclusion would allow automatic linking (<nowiki>{{Improved Trip}}</nowiki>). See my post about the wiktionary. A bot is a possibility (but I don't know how to program this), a script that take every comma-separated value and wikify it is another one. Automation is seldom bad, but seldom easy too :/ [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) 08:21, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

:::Transclusion would not help much. However, a bot that automatically adds internal links would be great... Hm, something for Blue Dragon to work on. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 23:08, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

== MSRD Skills ==

I just went back to change all the MSRD skills from '''_____ (MSRD Skill)''' to '''MSRD:_____ (Skill)''' and noticed that you had already done it for me. Just wanted to say thanks! —[[User:EldritchNumen|EldritchNumen]] 17:20, 19 March 2007 (MDT)

:No problem, the entire MSRD now should be part of its own Namespace. I hope I helped. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 18:59, 19 March 2007 (MDT)

== References to other D20 systems ==

One of the beings i am entering, [[Alabastor (DnD Deity)]], has an ability from the WoT series. is it possible for me to make a page covering this ability, or is this site strictly D&D? (the ability in question is the madness from the male casters) ==[[User:Alabastor|Alabastor]] 08:14, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

:First off I would like to say that WoT is ''the best'' book series I have ever read with only major flaw — there will only be 12 main books. However, I think it would be okay to add the madness ability (which was fixed by Rand...) if you made it very D&D related. Also, just say you got your idea from the WoT and it should be okay... Disregard this message ''if'' there is a roleplaying game based on WoT because if that is the case then I will have to change my outlook on this. Also, please tell me if this is the case. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 18:30, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

::Oh yeah, thats not a problem. im just not sure what it is off the top of my head, but we did change it around a bit, like taking a feat to control it somewhat. Ill get the info and mention the source ==[[User:Alabastor|Alabastor]] 18:52, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

:::Okay, that should work. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:34, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

==Thanks for the Welcome==
Once I find my way around the site, I'll start helping out with contributions.  [[User:Hooper|''' Hooper ''']][[User talk:Hooper|  talk  ]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|  contribs  ]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|  email  ]] 20:13, 24 March 2007 (MDT)

:Sounds good. ''':)'''. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 00:49, 25 March 2007 (MDT)

== Thanks for the welcome ==

Thank you for the welcome. I'm fairly experienced with wiki formatting, but I'm an expert in most aspects of the d20 rules. That's why I made the comments that I did about the Gemini Dancer. The question I wanted to ask was about how do I display my re-writes for the person in charge of the page to review and evaluate. {{Unsigned|Pilitus|10:18, 6 April 2007 (MDT)}}

:No problem. As for the [[Gemini Dancer (DnD Class)|Gemini Dancer]] changes I would post what you want changed on [[Talk:Gemini Dancer (DnD Class)|Talk:Gemini Dancer]] and then change the actual class. This is okay to do for a couple reasons. One is that the author has not asked that his class be locked so it is expected that if something better is possible it should be implemented. Another reason it is okay is because once the author sees the changes he can revert them if he does not like them, and comment on them on the talk page. So, tell what changes you have made on the talk page, make the changes, and everything should be okay. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:44, 7 April 2007 (MDT)

== Hey Green dragon ==

Well First off I am not new to DnD, I started a few months after 3.5 came out, had a fling with 3.0 but preferred 3.5 So I have been playing Dungeons and Dragons for quite a few years now. I am into building my own custom classes. (I prefer a well made base class over building a PrC, except in games where powergaming is the key to survival). I am what you could call an optimizer, but I am not insane like the people on the Charecter Op boards.

I should be able to put in an hour or two a week, more in holidays less when homework and exams are due.

I have absolutely no experience with the Wiki format, so this is all new for me, and everytime I edit something I pray that I don't accidently delete someones message. But any way I think I answered all your questions. But basically my biggest issue is understanding the wiki format, doesn't look to complicated, just take me a while to get the gist of it I think
[[User:Linkrulesx10|Linkrulesx10]] 19:38, 7 April 2007 (MDT)

:Hello Linkrulesx10. Its good that you prefer and only use 3.5e because sometimes people that have played 3e and have converted themselves to 3.5e make messy creations that are a blend of 3e and 3.5e. Also, I look forward to your classes when you post them here even though classes are one of the most confusing things to get right in D&D Wiki's format. However, if you want to get to know the wiki format better, have nothing better to do, and want to help out a good cause, you could always help D&D Wiki. Below are a couple things that I think would teach you the wiki format quickly — starting from #1 being easy to the last being much harder.
:# '''Fix 5 or so double redirects —''' Go to [[Special:Doubleredirects]]. Next click on the small red edit by one of them. Then fix the redirect by making it link to the last choice on the same line. For example make [[Armor Construction Guide (DnD Equipment)]] link to [[Armor Construction Guide (DnD Guideline)]] '''not''' [[Armor Construction Guide (DnD Other)]]. What this is does is make a redirect not have to redirect the user twice and overall speeding up the loading time for users.
:# '''Rate 5 or so Classes —''' As you said above you like classes and I am sure this means you also understand them. So go to [[User Base Classes with Descriptions]] and click on a class that has "NR (Not Rated)" in its balance column. Read through the class and make sure to understand it. Next, on the very top of the page, click the "''here''" in "''Please, help D&D Wiki by rating the balance of this item here.''" Make sure to follow the [[Balance System]] when determining what balance to give the class and make sure to follow the [[DnD Balance Formatting Template]] when formatting your rating.
:# '''Look through the "Transformational Variant Rules" —''' Recently [[DnD Rules]] has been switched from one kind of rule — variant, to two kinds — Transformational Variant Rules and Supplemental Variant Rules however this switch is not done. So, it would be a great help if you could help it along. So, go to [[DnD Rules]]. Next click on any Transformational Variant Rule. Look it over and come to understand it. When you have understood it decide if it is a Supplemental Variant Rule or a Transformational Variant Rule. If it is a Supplemental Variant Rule edit the page and add <nowiki>[[Category:Supplemental Variant Rule]]</nowiki> on the very bottom. If it is a Transformational Variant Rule edit the page and on the very bottom add <nowiki>[[Category:Transformational Variant Rule]]</nowiki>. After these categories have been added [[DnD Rules]] will automatically change the collumn of the rule — if it changed at all. Doing this would help D&D Wiki a great deal.
:# '''Look at the To-Do list —''' Take a glance over at the [[To-Do List]] and see if anything their interests you.
:I hope this helps you to understand wiki formatting better. Also what I gave above are only a few options of what needs to get done on D&D Wiki. If you want more please tell me and I will be more than happy to add more things to the above list. Thanks, and I hope you like D&D Wiki. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 11:03, 8 April 2007 (MDT)

== Management of the Druid provisional class discussion ==

Hi Green Dragon,

Congratulations for the amount of work you done. I think you did not know about the ''/'' operator and that was my contribution to the task, but your work is really impressive, I would not have had courage to do all this—and you did it very well.

This is a pleasure to work with you :-) [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 18:46, 9 April 2007 (MDT)

:It is a pleasure to work with you as well — you have helped make the formatting of base classes a lot better already. Also, I improved [[Talk:Druid (Evaluational Base Class Layout)]] once more, I hope it is even easier to understand. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 10:19, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

::Thank you for your kind words. Yes, the new layout is even better! May I suggest something? Create <code>.done {opacity:.6;text-decoration:line-through}</code> and apply it to the relevant <code>tr</code> (if it doesn't work, use <code>tr.done *</code> or <code>th.done, td.done</code>) [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 11:59, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

:::I changed it. Is the current method more like what you proposed? I am asking because I changed it a little bit (no strikethrough). --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:54, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

== Mediawiki collaboration ==

Green Dragon, I plan to set up a MediaWiki soon and, if the need arises, I am completely confident in your ability to solve my problem, should I have to ask (I will try not to, as you surely are as busy as I am, if not more).

Great teamwork. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 13:15, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

:Just curious, what kind of wiki are you setting up? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:16, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

::An English photowiki about the Streets of Paris. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 13:18, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

:::I would be more than happy to help, however I don't really know much about the subject... Do you have a site yet? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:20, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

::::Not yet, not yet. I yet have to download MediaWikie (five hours ago, I was still thinking of a blog). I will not have any problem with the topic, only, maybe, some with the technical part. I'll let you know. It warms my heart to know I could count on you if necessary. Keep well. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 13:37, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

Hi,
I'm installing MediaWiki 1.9.3 on my server. Any option you would like to comment on (before it is too late)? Of particular importance is the choice between <code>Experimental MySQL 4.1/5.0 UTF-8</code> and <code>Experimental MySQL 4.1/5.0 Binary</code> (I’d go for the first one, but what is the second one?) [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 02:00, 11 April 2007 (MDT)

:If you want better answers than mine you should ask [[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] as he is the one that manages D&D Wiki's server and will know more about this subject than me. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 21:25, 11 April 2007 (MDT)

How can I give rights to someone else? [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 02:31, 11 April 2007 (MDT)

:Special pages → User rights management. From this point just make them part of Sysop and you should be good to go. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:42, 11 April 2007 (MDT)

::Thank you. Is there some kind of thing a regular sysops cannot do, compared to the “root/other admins” idea popular in UNIX? [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 05:40, 12 April 2007 (MDT)

SRD Talk:Epic Obstacles

2007-04-12T11:15:37Z

David Latapie: /* Obdurium */

== Obdurium ==

'''[[Obdurium]]''' ('[http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/881660000 Stronghold Builder’s Guidebook]]'') is not listed here (I understand it is not SRD). [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 04:58, 11 April 2007 (MDT)

:Is it [[OGL]]? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:44, 11 April 2007 (MDT)
::No this is a WotC (''[http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/881660000 Stronghold Builder’s Guidebook]]'') and no mention of it in the Web Enhancements or Excerpts (I DO remember seeing it somewhere else, but certainly not an OGL conternt). Do you think mentionning its hardness would infringe ''fair use'' (I assume the server is in the U.S., where ''fair use'' apply—correct me if I'm wrong). [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 05:04, 12 April 2007 (MDT)

Talk:Druid (Evaluational Base Class Layout)/Example NPCs

2007-04-12T11:13:56Z

David Latapie: /* Example NPCs */

== Example NPCs==

Should each class have an example NPC that goes along with it as a standard practice to show an example of the class? I have seen this with a couple NPC classes from Dmilewski and I thought it might be a good idea to make it so the base classes need an NPC included as well. First off this may be a problem because they're classes, not NPC classes, and if the classes were to be included up to what level of each class would be shown in the example NPC? So, overall, what are your thoughts on this idea? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 16:48, 11 April 2007 (MDT)

:I think this greatly depends on the class itself. I included example characters for my classes to illustrate what the classes could look like, and to illustrate any mechanics that may be confusing. I think that this should be an optional inclusion. The new class format from WotC is already a trainwreck of overwriting. (Can you tell that I abhor the new character class format?) From a practical stand, we want folks to come in and print the classes. The more junk we throw in there, the more that they print what they do not need. --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 18:51, 11 April 2007 (MDT)

::My take is: yes, but only if you can come up with an interesting one. Joe Fighter speaks by himself, there is no need to make an example (this is what Wizards do and, really, their example sucks). Well, Ideally, there would be two examples:
::*a simple one, complete paraphrase, no added value. This is WotC-style and its purpose it to pick it up and use it as instant GM life-saver / '''cannon fodder'''. This is “Joe Fighter”. If you want a codename, let’s call him ''Run-of-the-mill'' (or ''ROTM'' for short).
::*a more '''elaborate''' one, that show how far you can go without resorting to any extra rules (this dones not apply only to Prestige Classes; you can make hell of a great character with only Core Classes, even a mere fighter—I know, I did. This is the embattled sergent of the local militia, who like to play dice with is old friend every once in a while. This is “Memorable Joe”. If you want a codename, let’s call him ''Elaborate'' (or ''Elab'' for short).
::Of course, this requires lot of time and such. But, once again, it would differentiate the wiki from yet-another-rules-compendium (granted, the fact that it is a wiki is already a lot). [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 05:13, 12 April 2007 (MDT)

SRD Talk:Epic Obstacles

2007-04-12T11:04:22Z

David Latapie: /* Obdurium */

== Obdurium ==

'''[[Obdurium]]''' ('[http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/881660000 Stronghold Builder’s Guidebook]]'') is not listed here (I understand it is not SRD). [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 04:58, 11 April 2007 (MDT)

:Is it [[OGL]]? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:44, 11 April 2007 (MDT)
::No this is a WotC ('[http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/881660000 Stronghold Builder’s Guidebook]]'') and no mention of it in the Web Enhancements or Excerpts (I DO remember seeing it somewhere else, but certainly not an OGL conternt). Do you think mentionning its hardness would infringe ''fair use'' (I assume the server is in the U.S., where ''fair use'' apply—correct me if I'm wrong). [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 05:04, 12 April 2007 (MDT)

SRD Talk:Feats

2007-04-12T10:57:18Z

David Latapie: /* Feats compendium */

== Feats compendium ==
Would [http://www.devinweb.com/featlisting.htm such a thing] infringes copyright? If not, I think it would be worth doing it. We already have the NBoF, a compendium of WotC’s would be a nice addition and would help establish dandwiki as a reference. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 04:58, 11 April 2007 (MDT)

:WotC already has a compedium of their own feats. See the SRD main page. It should also now show up on the Feats page.--[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 13:43, 11 April 2007 (MDT)

::[http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/lists/feats here] is the link to the WotC Feat Index if you are curious. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:46, 11 April 2007 (MDT)

:::Yes, I know it and use it (although I prefer better-layouted, officious versions). But to have such a list here would help making us a one-stop reference point and would also allow us to integrate NBoF and homebrew feats. Plus, the discussion page could be used for disambiguation. Yeah, I know is it a long work, but maybe that can be built over time. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 04:57, 12 April 2007 (MDT)

Talk:Druid (Evaluational Base Class Layout)/Back to Footer (breadcrumb)

2007-04-11T22:16:43Z

David Latapie: /* Tentative Summary */

== Back to Footer ([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breadcrumb_(navigation) breadcrumb]) ==

How is the "Back to" footer going to look like on the classes? Which one of the below choices looks the best? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:47, 28 March 2007 (MDT)

# Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]]->[[DnD Classes]]->[[User Base Classes with Descriptions|Base Classes]].
# Back to: [[Dungeons and Dragons]] > [[DnD Classes]] > [[User Base Classes with Descriptions|Base Classes]].
# Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] > [[DnD Classes]] > [[User Base Classes with Descriptions|Base Classes]].
# Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]]->[[DnD Classes]].
# Back to: [[Dungeons and Dragons]] > [[DnD Classes]].
# Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] > [[DnD Classes]]

--[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:47, 28 March 2007 (MDT)

:* 1 and 4: no (some alternative arrows, if you decide to use any: →, ➡, ➟, >, ›)
:* If the difference between 1-2-3 and 4-5-6 is just the depth, I prefer 1-2-3
:* I can’t decide between 2-3 and 5-6. The colon is nice, but the lack of is nice too.
: [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 21:09, 28 March 2007 (MDT)

::Relevant link to a [[User talk:Sledged/Archive 2#NPCs Based on the Admins of The D&D Wiki|previous discussion]] on the topic.

::I just changed my opinion on the best way to make all the choices available, so here is my new idea. Insane voting. Anyway, the examples are shows using the current majority. They will be changed as opinions on the best option changes.

::{| class="d20" style="text-align: left;"
|+ How Deep?
! Depth !! Votes
|-
| [[DnD Classes|Classes]] ||
|- class="even"
| [[DnD Classes|Classes]] > [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]] || [[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]]
|-
| [[DnD Classes|Classes]] > [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] || [[User:Flession|Flession]] | [[User:dmilewski|Dmilewski]]
|- class="even"
| [[DnD Classes|Classes]] > [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]] [[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] || [[User:Armond|Armond]] | [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] |[[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]]
|-
| [[DnD Classes|Classes]] > [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]] > [[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] || [[User:Sledged|Sledged]]
|- class="even"
| [[DnD Classes|Classes]] > [[User Base Classes with Descriptions|Base Classes]] (Goes to description) ||
|}

:::''Feel free to move this comment if it's in the wrong place.'' I just added a link that I've been wanting for some time, [[User Base Classes]] ⇒ [[User Base Classes with Descriptions]]. My vote would be different without that link. --[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]]

:::I think there should be a space between "Classes" and "with" on where I voted. [[User:Armond|Armond]] 15:12, 9 April 2007 (MDT)

::{| class="d20" style="text-align: left;"
|+ Which Symbol? (Two votes per person allowed)
! Symbol !! Example !! Votes
|-
| -> || Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] -> [[DnD Classes|Classes]] -> [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] || [[User:Armond|Armond]]
|- class="even"
| > || Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] > [[DnD Classes|Classes]] > [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] || [[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] | [[User:Sledged|Sledged]]
|-
| → || Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Classes|Classes]] → [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] || [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] | [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] | [[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] | [[User:dmilewski|Dmilewski]] | [[User:Sledged|Sledged]]
|- class="even"
| ⇒ || Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] ⇒ [[DnD Classes|Classes]] ⇒ [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] || [[User:Armond|Armond]]
|-
| ➡ || Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] ➡ [[DnD Classes|Classes]] ➡ [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] ||
|- class="even"
| ➟ || Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] ➟ [[DnD Classes|Classes]] ➟ [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] ||
|-
| › || Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] › [[DnD Classes|Classes]] › [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] ||
|- class="even"
| ➞ || Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] ➞ [[DnD Classes|Classes]] ➞ [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] ||
|-
| ➤ || Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] ➤ [[DnD Classes|Classes]] ➤ [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] ||
|- class="even"
| ➧ || Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] ➧ [[DnD Classes|Classes]] ➧ [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] ||
|-
| ► || Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] ► [[DnD Classes|Classes]] ► [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] ||
|- class="even"
| ▸ || Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] ▸ [[DnD Classes|Classes]] ▸ [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] || [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]]
|}

::{| class="d20" style="text-align: left;"
|+ Spaces?
! # of Spaces !! Example !! Votes
|-
| 0 Spaces between symbol and link || Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]]→[[DnD Classes|Classes]]→[[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] ||
|- class="even"
| 1 Space between symbol and link || Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Classes|Classes]] → [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] || [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] | [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] | [[User:Armond|Armond]] | [[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] | [[User:dmilewski|Dmilewski]] | [[User:Sledged|Sledged]]
|}

::{| class="d20" style="text-align: left;"
|+ Colon?
! Colon !! Example !! Votes
|-
| Yes || Back to: [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Classes|Classes]] → [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] || [[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] | [[User:Sledged|Sledged]] (contingent on my comment below the next vote)
|- class="even"
| No || Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Classes|Classes]] → [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] || [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] | [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] | [[User:Armond|Armond]] | [[User:dmilewski|Dmilewski]]
|}

::{| class="d20" style="text-align: left;"
|+ <nowiki> </nowiki> after "Back to"?
! <nowiki> </nowiki> !! Example !! Votes
|-
| Yes || Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Classes|Classes]] → [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] || [[User:Sledged|Sledged]] (see comment below)
|- class="even"
| No || Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Classes|Classes]] → [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] || [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] | [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] | [[User:Armond|Armond]] | [[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] | [[User:dmilewski|Dmilewski]]
|}

:::If a page has multiple bread crumbs, I like the way it looks with only one "Back to" text:

::::Back to: [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Spells/Powers|Spells/Powers]] → [[DnD Cleric Spells|Cleric Spells]] [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Spells/Powers|Spells/Powers]] → [[DnD Druid Spells|Druid Spells]] [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Spells/Powers|Spells/Powers]] → [[DnD Bard Spells|Bard Spells]] [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Spells/Powers|Spells/Powers]] → [[DnD Paladin Spells|Paladin Spells]] [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Spells/Powers|Spells/Powers]] → [[DnD Conjuration Spells|Conjuration Spells]] [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Spells/Powers|Spells/Powers]] → [[DnD Conjuration (Healing) Spells|Conjuration (Healing) Spells]]

:::versus

::::Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Spells/Powers|Spells/Powers]] → [[DnD Cleric Spells|Cleric Spells]] Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Spells/Powers|Spells/Powers]] → [[DnD Druid Spells|Druid Spells]] Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Spells/Powers|Spells/Powers]] → [[DnD Bard Spells|Bard Spells]] Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Spells/Powers|Spells/Powers]] → [[DnD Paladin Spells|Paladin Spells]] Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Spells/Powers|Spells/Powers]] → [[DnD Conjuration Spells|Conjuration Spells]] Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Spells/Powers|Spells/Powers]] → [[DnD Conjuration (Healing) Spells|Conjuration (Healing) Spells]]

:::—[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 13:07, 11 April 2007 (MDT)

::{| class="d20" style="text-align: left;"
|+ Say "Back to"?
! Wording !! Example !! Votes
|-
| Back to || Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Classes|Classes]] → [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] || [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] | [[User:Armond|Armond]] | [[User:dmilewski|Dmilewski]] | [[User:Sledged|Sledged]] (if at the bottom of page)
|- class="even"
| You are here: (colon vote required) || You are here: [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Classes|Classes]] → [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] ||
|-
| <nothing> || [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Classes|Classes]] → [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] || [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] | [[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] | [[User:Sledged|Sledged]] (only if at the top of page)
|}

::{| class="d20" style="text-align: left;"
|+ "Back to" Footer Size
! Size !! Example !! Votes
|-
| Normal || Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Classes|Classes]] → [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] || [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] | [[User:Armond|Armond]] | [[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] | [[User:dmilewski|Dmilewski]]
|- class="even"
| Small || Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Classes|Classes]] → [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] || [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] | [[User:Sledged|Sledged]]
|-
| Big || <big>Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Classes|Classes]] → [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]]</big> ||
|}

::{| class="d20" style="text-align: left;"
|+ Color? (No class="even" used as they interfere with the colors)
! Color !! Example !! Votes
|-
| Background || Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Classes|Classes]] → [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] || [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] | [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] | [[User:Armond|Armond]] | [[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] | [[User:dmilewski|Dmilewski]] | [[User:Sledged|Sledged]]
|-
| Sledged's Color Choice (see [[User:Sledged]]) || <div class="toccolours" style="border: none; line-height: 1em;">Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Classes|Classes]] → [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]]</div> ||
|}

:::''Feel free to move this comment if it's in the wrong place.'' My objection is not how it interacts with the other colors, but that it draws attention to something that doesn't deserve extra attention. --[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]]

::::I've actually changed my mind on this one, because I don't like the way it looks with multiple breadcrumbs. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 13:07, 11 April 2007 (MDT)

::{| class="d20" style="text-align: left;"
|+ DnD or no DnD?
! Prefix !! Example !! Votes
|-
| DnD || Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Classes]] → [[User Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] ||
|- class="even"
| None || Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Classes|Classes]] → [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] || [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] | [[User:Armond|Armond]] | [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] | [[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] | [[User:dmilewski|Dmilewski]] | [[User:Sledged|Sledged]]
|}

::{| class="d20" style="text-align: left;"
|+ Dungeons and Dragons?
! Choices !! Example !! Votes
|-
| Dungeons and Dragons || Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Classes|Classes]] → [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]]|| [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] | [[User:Armond|Armond]] | [[User:dmilewski|Dmilewski]] | [[User:Sledged|Sledged]]
|- class="even"
| DnD || Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons|DnD]] → [[DnD Classes|Classes]] → [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] || [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]]
|-
| D&D || Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons|D&D]] → [[DnD Classes|Classes]] → [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] ||
|- class="even"
| Homebrew || Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons|Homebrew]] → [[DnD Classes|Classes]] → [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] || [[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]]
|}

::{| class="d20" style="text-align: left;"
|+ Include Main Page in Heirarchy?
! Choices !! Example !! Votes
|-
| Yes || Back to [[Main Page]] → [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Classes|Classes]] → [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]]|| [[User:Sledged|Sledged]] | [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]]
|- class="even"
| No || Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Classes|Classes]] → [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]]||
|}

::{| class="d20" style="text-align: left;"
|+ Location
! Choices !! Votes
|-
| Top of page ||
|- class="even"
| Bottom of page || [[User:Sledged|Sledged]] | [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]]
|-
| Top and bottom of page ||
|- class="even"
| Determined on page-by-page basis ||
|}

::: Initially I liked having the breadcrumb at both the top and bottom, but when you have multiple breadcrumb trails, or if one is particularly deep, it clutters up the top of the page. However, I wouldn't mind having a link at the top of the page that takes you directly to the "back to" footer. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 13:07, 11 April 2007 (MDT)

::{| class="d20" style="text-align: left;"
|+ Users Preferences
! User !! Choice Chosen (By voting)
|-
| [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] || Back to [[Main Page]] → [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Classes|Classes]] → [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]] [[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]]
|-
| [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] || [[Dungeons and Dragons|DnD]] ▸ [[DnD Classes|Classes]] ▸ [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]] [[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]]
|-
| [[User:Armond|Armond]] || Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] -> [[DnD Classes|Classes]] -> [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]] [[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] ⇒ [[DnD Classes|Classes]] ⇒ [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]] [[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]]
|-
| [[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]]
| [[Dungeons and Dragons|Homebrew]] > [[DnD Classes|Classes]] > [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]] 
[[Dungeons and Dragons|Homebrew]] → [[DnD Classes|Classes]] → [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]]
|-
| [[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] || Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Classes|Classes]] → [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]]
|-
| [[User:Sledged|Sledged]] || See user page or look below Back to: [[Main Page]] → [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Classes|Classes]] → [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]] → [[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] Back to: [[Main Page]] > [[Dungeons and Dragons]] > [[DnD Classes|Classes]] > [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]] > [[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]]
|}

::--[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 14:00, 29 March 2007 (MDT)

== Tentative Summary ==
It seems this one is a what we agreed upon

{| class="d20" style="text-align: left;"
|-
| Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Classes|Classes]] → [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]]
|-
|} [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 19:04, 9 April 2007 (MDT)

:Yes, that is the one with the most votes. However, is
:Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Classes|Classes]] → [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]] [[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]]
:better or worse than
:Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Classes|Classes]] → [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]]
:? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:04, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

::I prefer the first one, with a space before ''with description''. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 13:25, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

:::Same here. I changed your and my votes to match the choice with the space. The choice with the space now has the most votes ''':)'''. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:36, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

:::: :-) As for my choice (compact breadcrumb): I understand it may not look that appealing here, because it is taken out of context. I think that, in order to truly see it working (or not), it will be necessary to put it in production, on a page with dozens of information and links. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 13:53, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

:::::How about everyone put their choice(s) on their user page? —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 13:07, 11 April 2007 (MDT)

::::::Please don't! IT is work enough to check all of this :-) [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 13:24, 11 April 2007 (MDT)

:::::::Perhaps, but I think it would be worth it to see all the choices in context. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 13:34, 11 April 2007 (MDT)

::::::::I did misunderstood you. I will fix this when I'll have time. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 16:16, 11 April 2007 (MDT)

Talk:Druid (Evaluational Base Class Layout)/Back to Footer (breadcrumb)

2007-04-11T19:24:11Z

David Latapie: /* Tentative Summary */

== Back to Footer ([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breadcrumb_(navigation) breadcrumb]) ==

How is the "Back to" footer going to look like on the classes? Which one of the below choices looks the best? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:47, 28 March 2007 (MDT)

# Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]]->[[DnD Classes]]->[[User Base Classes with Descriptions|Base Classes]].
# Back to: [[Dungeons and Dragons]] > [[DnD Classes]] > [[User Base Classes with Descriptions|Base Classes]].
# Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] > [[DnD Classes]] > [[User Base Classes with Descriptions|Base Classes]].
# Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]]->[[DnD Classes]].
# Back to: [[Dungeons and Dragons]] > [[DnD Classes]].
# Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] > [[DnD Classes]]

--[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:47, 28 March 2007 (MDT)

:* 1 and 4: no (some alternative arrows, if you decide to use any: →, ➡, ➟, >, ›)
:* If the difference between 1-2-3 and 4-5-6 is just the depth, I prefer 1-2-3
:* I can’t decide between 2-3 and 5-6. The colon is nice, but the lack of is nice too.
: [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 21:09, 28 March 2007 (MDT)

::Relevant link to a [[User talk:Sledged/Archive 2#NPCs Based on the Admins of The D&D Wiki|previous discussion]] on the topic.

::I just changed my opinion on the best way to make all the choices available, so here is my new idea. Insane voting. Anyway, the examples are shows using the current majority. They will be changed as opinions on the best option changes.

::{| class="d20" style="text-align: left;"
|+ How Deep?
! Depth !! Votes
|-
| [[DnD Classes|Classes]] ||
|- class="even"
| [[DnD Classes|Classes]] > [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]] || [[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]]
|-
| [[DnD Classes|Classes]] > [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] || [[User:Flession|Flession]] | [[User:dmilewski|Dmilewski]]
|- class="even"
| [[DnD Classes|Classes]] > [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]] [[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] || [[User:Armond|Armond]] | [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] |[[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]]
|-
| [[DnD Classes|Classes]] > [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]] > [[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] || [[User:Sledged|Sledged]]
|- class="even"
| [[DnD Classes|Classes]] > [[User Base Classes with Descriptions|Base Classes]] (Goes to description) ||
|}

:::''Feel free to move this comment if it's in the wrong place.'' I just added a link that I've been wanting for some time, [[User Base Classes]] ⇒ [[User Base Classes with Descriptions]]. My vote would be different without that link. --[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]]

:::I think there should be a space between "Classes" and "with" on where I voted. [[User:Armond|Armond]] 15:12, 9 April 2007 (MDT)

::{| class="d20" style="text-align: left;"
|+ Which Symbol? (Two votes per person allowed)
! Symbol !! Example !! Votes
|-
| -> || Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] -> [[DnD Classes|Classes]] -> [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] || [[User:Armond|Armond]]
|- class="even"
| > || Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] > [[DnD Classes|Classes]] > [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] || [[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]], [[User:Sledged|Sledged]]
|-
| → || Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Classes|Classes]] → [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] || [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]], [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]], [[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]], [[User:dmilewski|Dmilewski]], [[User:Sledged|Sledged]]
|- class="even"
| ⇒ || Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] ⇒ [[DnD Classes|Classes]] ⇒ [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] || [[User:Armond|Armond]]
|-
| ➡ || Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] ➡ [[DnD Classes|Classes]] ➡ [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] ||
|- class="even"
| ➟ || Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] ➟ [[DnD Classes|Classes]] ➟ [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] ||
|-
| › || Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] › [[DnD Classes|Classes]] › [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] ||
|- class="even"
| ➞ || Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] ➞ [[DnD Classes|Classes]] ➞ [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] ||
|-
| ➤ || Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] ➤ [[DnD Classes|Classes]] ➤ [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] ||
|- class="even"
| ➧ || Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] ➧ [[DnD Classes|Classes]] ➧ [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] ||
|-
| ► || Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] ► [[DnD Classes|Classes]] ► [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] ||
|- class="even"
| ▸ || Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] ▸ [[DnD Classes|Classes]] ▸ [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] || [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]]
|}

::{| class="d20" style="text-align: left;"
|+ Spaces?
! # of Spaces !! Example !! Votes
|-
| 0 Spaces between symbol and link || Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]]→[[DnD Classes|Classes]]→[[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] ||
|- class="even"
| 1 Space between symbol and link || Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Classes|Classes]] → [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] || [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] | [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] | [[User:Armond|Armond]] | [[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] | [[User:dmilewski|Dmilewski]] | [[User:Sledged|Sledged]]
|}

::{| class="d20" style="text-align: left;"
|+ Colon?
! Colon !! Example !! Votes
|-
| Yes || Back to: [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Classes|Classes]] → [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] || [[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] | [[User:Sledged|Sledged]] (contingent on my comment below the next vote)
|- class="even"
| No || Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Classes|Classes]] → [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] || [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] | [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] | [[User:Armond|Armond]] | [[User:dmilewski|Dmilewski]]
|}

::{| class="d20" style="text-align: left;"
|+ <nowiki> </nowiki> after "Back to"?
! <nowiki> </nowiki> !! Example !! Votes
|-
| Yes || Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Classes|Classes]] → [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] || [[User:Sledged|Sledged]] (see comment below)
|- class="even"
| No || Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Classes|Classes]] → [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] || [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] | [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] | [[User:Armond|Armond]] | [[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] | [[User:dmilewski|Dmilewski]]
|}

:::If a page has multiple bread crumbs, I like the way it looks with only one "Back to" text:

::::Back to: [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Spells/Powers|Spells/Powers]] → [[DnD Cleric Spells|Cleric Spells]] [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Spells/Powers|Spells/Powers]] → [[DnD Druid Spells|Druid Spells]] [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Spells/Powers|Spells/Powers]] → [[DnD Bard Spells|Bard Spells]] [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Spells/Powers|Spells/Powers]] → [[DnD Paladin Spells|Paladin Spells]] [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Spells/Powers|Spells/Powers]] → [[DnD Conjuration Spells|Conjuration Spells]] [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Spells/Powers|Spells/Powers]] → [[DnD Conjuration (Healing) Spells|Conjuration (Healing) Spells]]

:::versus

::::Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Spells/Powers|Spells/Powers]] → [[DnD Cleric Spells|Cleric Spells]] Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Spells/Powers|Spells/Powers]] → [[DnD Druid Spells|Druid Spells]] Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Spells/Powers|Spells/Powers]] → [[DnD Bard Spells|Bard Spells]] Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Spells/Powers|Spells/Powers]] → [[DnD Paladin Spells|Paladin Spells]] Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Spells/Powers|Spells/Powers]] → [[DnD Conjuration Spells|Conjuration Spells]] Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Spells/Powers|Spells/Powers]] → [[DnD Conjuration (Healing) Spells|Conjuration (Healing) Spells]]

:::—[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 13:07, 11 April 2007 (MDT)

::{| class="d20" style="text-align: left;"
|+ Say "Back to"?
! Wording !! Example !! Votes
|-
| Back to || Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Classes|Classes]] → [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] || [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] | [[User:Armond|Armond]] | [[User:dmilewski|Dmilewski]] | [[User:Sledged|Sledged]] (if at the bottom of page)
|- class="even"
| You are here: (colon vote required) || You are here: [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Classes|Classes]] → [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] ||
|-
| <nothing> || [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Classes|Classes]] → [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] || [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] | [[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] | [[User:Sledged|Sledged]] (only if at the top of page)
|}

::{| class="d20" style="text-align: left;"
|+ "Back to" Footer Size
! Size !! Example !! Votes
|-
| Normal || Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Classes|Classes]] → [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] || [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] | [[User:Armond|Armond]] | [[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] | [[User:dmilewski|Dmilewski]]
|- class="even"
| Small || Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Classes|Classes]] → [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] || [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] | [[User:Sledged|Sledged]]
|-
| Big || <big>Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Classes|Classes]] → [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]]</big> ||
|}

::{| class="d20" style="text-align: left;"
|+ Color? (No class="even" used as they interfere with the colors)
! Color !! Example !! Votes
|-
| Background || Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Classes|Classes]] → [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] || [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] | [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] | [[User:Armond|Armond]] | [[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] | [[User:dmilewski|Dmilewski]] | [[User:Sledged|Sledged]]
|-
| Sledged's Color Choice (see [[User:Sledged]]) || <div class="toccolours" style="border: none; line-height: 1em;">Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Classes|Classes]] → [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]]</div> ||
|}

:::''Feel free to move this comment if it's in the wrong place.'' My objection is not how it interacts with the other colors, but that it draws attention to something that doesn't deserve extra attention. --[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]]

::::I've actually changed my mind on this one, because I don't like the way it looks with multiple breadcrumbs. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 13:07, 11 April 2007 (MDT)

::{| class="d20" style="text-align: left;"
|+ DnD or no DnD?
! Prefix !! Example !! Votes
|-
| DnD || Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Classes]] → [[User Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] ||
|- class="even"
| None || Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Classes|Classes]] → [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] || [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] | [[User:Armond|Armond]] | [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] | [[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] | [[User:dmilewski|Dmilewski]] | [[User:Sledged|Sledged]]
|}

::{| class="d20" style="text-align: left;"
|+ Dungeons and Dragons?
! Choices !! Example !! Votes
|-
| Dungeons and Dragons || Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Classes|Classes]] → [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]]|| [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] | [[User:Armond|Armond]] | [[User:dmilewski|Dmilewski]] | [[User:Sledged|Sledged]]
|- class="even"
| DnD || Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons|DnD]] → [[DnD Classes|Classes]] → [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] || [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]]
|-
| D&D || Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons|D&D]] → [[DnD Classes|Classes]] → [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] ||
|- class="even"
| Homebrew || Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons|Homebrew]] → [[DnD Classes|Classes]] → [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] || [[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]]
|}

::{| class="d20" style="text-align: left;"
|+ Include Main Page in Heirarchy?
! Choices !! Example !! Votes
|-
| Yes || Back to [[Main Page]] → [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Classes|Classes]] → [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]]|| [[User:Sledged|Sledged]]
|- class="even"
| No || Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Classes|Classes]] → [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]]||
|}

::{| class="d20" style="text-align: left;"
|+ Location
! Choices !! Votes
|-
| Top of page ||
|- class="even"
| Bottom of page || [[User:Sledged|Sledged]]
|-
| Top and bottom of page ||
|- class="even"
| Determined on page-by-page basis ||
|}

::: Initially I liked having the breadcrumb at both the top and bottom, but when you have multiple breadcrumb trails, or if one is particularly deep, it clutters up the top of the page. However, I wouldn't mind having a link at the top of the page that takes you directly to the "back to" footer. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 13:07, 11 April 2007 (MDT)

::{| class="d20" style="text-align: left;"
|+ Users Preferences
! User !! Choice Chosen (By voting)
|-
| [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] || Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Classes|Classes]] → [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]] [[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]]
|-
| [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] || [[Dungeons and Dragons|DnD]] ▸ [[DnD Classes|Classes]] ▸ [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]] [[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]]
|-
| [[User:Armond|Armond]] || Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] -> [[DnD Classes|Classes]] -> [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]] [[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]] Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] ⇒ [[DnD Classes|Classes]] ⇒ [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]] [[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]]
|-
| [[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]]
| [[Dungeons and Dragons|Homebrew]] > [[DnD Classes|Classes]] > [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]] 
[[Dungeons and Dragons|Homebrew]] → [[DnD Classes|Classes]] → [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]]
|-
| [[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] || Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Classes|Classes]] → [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]]
|-
| [[User:Sledged|Sledged]] || See user page
|}

::--[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 14:00, 29 March 2007 (MDT)

== Tentative Summary ==
It seems this one is a what we agreed upon

{| class="d20" style="text-align: left;"
|-
| Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Classes|Classes]] → [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]]
|-
|} [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 19:04, 9 April 2007 (MDT)

:Yes, that is the one with the most votes. However, is
:Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Classes|Classes]] → [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]] [[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]]
:better or worse than
:Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] → [[DnD Classes|Classes]] → [[User Base Classes|Base Classes]][[User Base Classes with Descriptions|with description]]
:? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:04, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

::I prefer the first one, with a space before ''with description''. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 13:25, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

:::Same here. I changed your and my votes to match the choice with the space. The choice with the space now has the most votes ''':)'''. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:36, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

:::: :-) As for my choice (compact breadcrumb): I understand it may not look that appealing here, because it is taken out of context. I think that, in order to truly see it working (or not), it will be necessary to put it in production, on a page with dozens of information and links. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 13:53, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

:::::How about everyone put their choice(s) on their user page? —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 13:07, 11 April 2007 (MDT)

::::::Please don't! IT is work enough to check all of this :-) [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 13:24, 11 April 2007 (MDT)

Talk:Druid (Evaluational Base Class Layout)/Base attributes

2007-04-11T18:32:41Z

David Latapie: /* Base attributes */

=== Base attributes ===

Is it really necessary to put the base attribute for each skill in every class description? It's not like it changes between classes. Yes, I know that's what the PHB does. It seems silly there, too. --[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] 20:58, 2 April 2007 (MDT)

:I like it — it saves me time when I am using the class to make something from it (e.g. a creature). Anyway, voting time. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 14:38, 5 April 2007 (MDT)

:{|class="d20" style="text-align: left;"
|+ Skills' Key Abilities
! Present (example below) !! Not Present (example below)
|- class="even"
| [[Concentration]] ([[Con]]), [[Craft]] ([[Int]]), [[Diplomacy]] ([[Cha]]) || [[Concentration]], [[Craft]], [[Diplomacy]]
|-
| [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] [[User:Armond|Armond]] [[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ||
|}

::Helpful for new users. [[User:Armond|Armond]] 15:00, 9 April 2007 (MDT)

:::I would be neutral if it was not for sticking with Wizards’ layout. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 19:06, 9 April 2007 (MDT)

::::Actually, as initially I noted [[Talk:Druid (Evaluational Base Class Layout)/Overview|here]], the new WotC formats ''do not'' have the key abilities listed next to the skill names. I put them in the demo for the exact same reason Green Dragon mentioned. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 11:38, 11 April 2007 (MDT)

:::::I henceforth remove my vote: Ability save time, but it also clutters a page already full of information. By the way, I am positively FOR removing implied pre-requisites for a feat (Weapon Supremacy requires Greater Weapon Focus. This one having Weapon Focus as a pre-requisite, no need to say it again). [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 11:54, 11 April 2007 (MDT)

::::::There's actually a valid reason for listing implied prerequisites in feats. The rules state if you lose a prerequisite for a feat, you still have it, but you cannot use it. So if a character lost the feat Power Attack (not just the ability to use it), he loses the ability to use Cleave and Great Cleave. But if only the implied feats are listed, the character would still be able to use Great Cleave (even though he can't use Cleave) because Power Attack isn't a prerequisite. And there are a few feats don't list every feat in the chain prior to itself. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 12:17, 11 April 2007 (MDT)

:::::::I guess you meant “the ''non-''implied feats”. BTW. Psionics do not list implied feats. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 12:32, 11 April 2007 (MDT)

Talk:Druid (Evaluational Base Class Layout)/Table header

2007-04-11T18:14:19Z

David Latapie: /* Table header */

== Table header ==

Here's an alternate suggestion for the table header.

{| class="d20" id="Table: The Druid"
|+ style="text-align: center;" |
<div style="float:left"> Table: The Druid </div>
Hit Die: d8
|-
! rowspan="2" | Level
! rowspan="2" | Base Attack Bonus
! colspan="3" | [[Saving Throws]]
! rowspan="2" align="left" | Special
! colspan="10" | [[#Spells|Spells per Day]]
|-
! [[Saving Throws#Fortitude|Fort]]
! [[Saving Throws#Reflex|Ref]]
! [[Saving Throws#Will|Will]]
! 0th || 1st || 2nd || 3rd || 4th || 5th || 6th || 7th || 8th || 9th
|-
| 1st
| align="left" | +0 || +2 || +0 || +2
| align="left" | [[#Animal Companion (Ex)|Animal companion]], [[#Nature Sense (Ex)|nature sense]], [[#Wild Empathy (Ex)|wild empathy]]
| 3 || 1 || — || — || — || — || — || — || — || —
|- class="even"
| 2nd
| align="left" | +1 || +3 || +0 || +3
| align="left" | [[#Woodland Stride (Ex)|Woodland stride]]
| 4 || 2 || — || — || — || — || — || — || — || —
|}

# This conceptually places the saving throws together.
# It makes several cosmetic changes in the code which make for easier readability, and hence maintainability.
## Every delimiter ('''|''' or '''||''') is surrounded by spaces to make it easier to find.
## Every cell that includes formatting information starts a new line.
## Every cell that starts a new conceptual block (e.g. spells) starts a new line.
## '''rowspan''' and '''colspan''' come before styles to make the layout stand out more.
## Use '''align="left"''' rather than '''style="text-align: left;"''' because it's easier to understand at a glance, not to mention quicker to type.
## Indent new lines an extra space after the delimiter to make them line up with row markup, and stand out visually from wrapping lines.
# Note the superscripted ordinals. This, admittedly, is harder to maintain, but I think the visual effect is worth it.
# Note the link from '''Spells per Day'''.
--[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] 21:28, 2 April 2007 (MDT)

:I like the saving throws together — a lot. Also I like the <nowiki>'s</nowiki> around the spells per day however I think the level should not use <nowiki>'s</nowiki> as in my opinion it does not look as good. The link from Spells per Day will come in handy when classes start to get formatted this method — good thinking. Overall I think all you need to do is make the "level" column not use <nowiki>'s</nowiki>. Other than that I like this one much more — good work. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:23, 9 April 2007 (MDT)

::I like it except for--putting my [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standardista standartista] hat on-- the #5 ( align="left" rather than style="text-align: left;"). The second is structure/presentation separation and this is much better for maintenance--not talking of semantics, accessibility… An even better solution is to move from inline-styling to separated CSS: move the <code>style="text-align: left</code> to a <code>class</code>. Also, (IMHO) ''Special'' would like better if centered [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 19:11, 9 April 2007 (MDT)

:::I agree—"Special" probably would look better centered. About the <code>style="text-align: left</code> vs. <code>align="left"</code> I am neutral. I see the <code>align="left"</code> as easier to understand for new users and being easier to type all while not following standards as well. I could care less either way. Additionally I agree a <code>class</code> should be made to cover this aspect. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:11, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

::::The <code>class</code> would take care of the readability part. Even better, something like <code>.table-class th {text-align:left}</code> (Ideally, we would use <code>thead th</code> to easily discriminate simple tab and crosstabs, but <code>thead</code> is not allowed/generated by MediaWiki). [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 13:23, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

{| class="d20" id="Table: The Druid"
|+ style="text-align: center;" |
<div style="float:left"> Table: The Druid </div>
Hit Die: d8
|-
! rowspan="2" | Level
! rowspan="2" | Base Attack Bonus
! colspan="3" | [[Saving Throws]]
! rowspan="2" align="center" | Special
! colspan="10" | [[#Spells|Spells per Day]]
|-
! [[Saving Throws#Fortitude|Fort]]
! [[Saving Throws#Reflex|Ref]]
! [[Saving Throws#Will|Will]]
! 0th || 1st || 2nd || 3rd || 4th || 5th || 6th || 7th || 8th || 9th
|-
| 1st
| align="left" | +0 || +2 || +0 || +2
| align="left" | [[#Animal Companion (Ex)|Animal companion]], [[#Nature Sense (Ex)|nature sense]], [[#Wild Empathy (Ex)|wild empathy]]
| 3 || 1 || — || — || — || — || — || — || — || —
|- class="even"
| 2nd
| align="left" | +1 || +3 || +0 || +3
| align="left" | [[#Woodland Stride (Ex)|Woodland stride]]
| 4 || 2 || — || — || — || — || — || — || — || —
|}

Unsuping the levels and moving "special" to center. IMO "special" looks worse, but the levels look better. But everything else is neat! How do we upgrade old tables to this without redoing the entire thing? [[User:Armond|Armond]] 14:40, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

:After fiddling around on the [[Base Assassin (DnD Class)|Base Assassin]], I've changed my mind - center does look better, though now I'm stuck trying to figure out how to right-align the HD. *pokes around* Ugh, can't find it. [[User:Armond|Armond]] 15:03, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

::The HD should not be left aligned — the new books by WotC have the HD in the center and we are following suite. Also, upgrading tables to this method will be easy (as I am sure you just figured out ''':)'''). --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 17:56, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

:::If done well, everything related to presentation shall be done via CSS. AFAIK, only the administrator may modify the CSS—he certainly can give such a writing access to someone else if he sees fit. Once one has writing access to the CSS, upgrading is don in the blonk of an eye. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 01:14, 11 April 2007 (MDT)

::::So if all the headers are now centered, do we want to make it standard practice to make all headers (not just class tables) centered? Also, under spells, it's not "0th", it's just supposed to be "0". —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 07:46, 11 April 2007 (MDT)

:::::I think it is ''O'' at Wizards’s too. There is some antecedents, such as the Isaac Asimov’s “Zeroth Law of Robotics” and the “Zeroth Law of Thermodynamics”. {{unsigned|David Latapie}}

::::::It is 0 (the number, not the letter), but as seen below this presents a small problem. [[User:Armond|Armond]] 11:13, 11 April 2007 (MDT)

:::::::Pardon my mistake. Some months ago, I did not understand how people could ever do such a mistake and I now routinely do it :( [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 11:57, 11 April 2007 (MDT)

::::::::I understand - to be honest, I didn't even notice it until I went into the coding to post my reply :P [[User:Armond|Armond]] 12:11, 11 April 2007 (MDT)

{| class="d20" id="Table: The Druid"
|+ style="text-align: center;" |
<div style="float:left"> Table: The Druid </div>
Hit Die: d8
|-
! rowspan="2" | Level
! rowspan="2" | Base Attack Bonus
! colspan="3" | [[Saving Throws]]
! rowspan="2" align="center" | Special
! colspan="10" | [[#Spells|Spells per Day]]
|-
! [[Saving Throws#Fortitude|Fort]]
! [[Saving Throws#Reflex|Ref]]
! [[Saving Throws#Will|Will]]
! 0 || 1st || 2nd || 3rd || 4th || 5th || 6th || 7th || 8th || 9th
|-
| 1st
| align="left" | +0 || +2 || +0 || +2
| align="left" | [[#Animal Companion (Ex)|Animal companion]], [[#Nature Sense (Ex)|nature sense]], [[#Wild Empathy (Ex)|wild empathy]]
| 3 || 1 || — || — || — || — || — || — || — || —
|- class="even"
| 2nd
| align="left" | +1 || +3 || +0 || +3
| align="left" | [[#Woodland Stride (Ex)|Woodland stride]]
| 4 || 2 || — || — || — || — || — || — || — || —
|}

Problem with taking out the "th"... Is there a cleaner way to fix that than simply adding it back in and changing the color to exactly match the background? (Besides, it's pretty awesome :P)

I'd say let's take each table individually and make them look their best instead of arbitrarily making everything centered when we might find something we don't want centered. Upgrade was indeed relatively simple, btw, though I had to fiddle a bit when it decided to put the spell levels under the level/bab/saves (i.e. take out spell levels on a noncasting class). [[User:Armond|Armond]] 08:56, 11 April 2007 (MDT)

Talk:Druid (Evaluational Base Class Layout)/Bots?

2007-04-11T17:59:18Z

David Latapie:

== Revision ==

* Replaced all the L5s with <s>semicolons</s> bold mark-up (great reduction in ToC).
* Bumped up all L2s though L4s to the next bigger header. (i.e. What were L2s are now L1s, L3s to L2s, and L4s to L3s.)
* After taking another look at the new format in Tome of Battle and Dragon Magic, it seems that the Hit Die info in the table captions is centered, not right-justified.
Go [http://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Druid_%28Evaluational_Base_Class_Layout%29&oldid=87907 here] to see previous version. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 12:07, 21 March 2007 (MDT)

:I'm a little scared to ask, but how are we going to implement all these retroactively? >.> Anyone got an uber-smart bot? [[User:Armond|Armond]] 14:32, 21 March 2007 (MDT)

::I have built a relatively flexible bot base. If all of the ideas are solidified then I would be willing to implement it. — [[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] ([[User_talk:Blue Dragon|talk]]) 16:46, 21 March 2007 (MDT)

:::A bot will not work as basically every class is formatted incorrectly and different from the other incorrectly formatted classes. We are just going to need a lot of help from a lot of people and slowly remove [[Template:Wikify]] from each one as it gets done. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 16:57, 21 March 2007 (MDT)

::::We're going to also need many eyes. I'm pretty good at formatting these things, and after I update a class, sledged or green dragon come behind me and make even more changes. There's just a whole lot of detail to making these classes all come out right and consistently.--[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 14:19, 22 March 2007 (MDT)

:::::Jeez. Is there a way we can make the finalized information easily available to anyone who visits the wiki, in the hopes that anon editors will be able to make a good sized contribution too? [[User:Armond|Armond]] 14:29, 22 March 2007 (MDT)

::::::A good policy ''might'' be to start any major work with: can we automate this? Maybe it will require a standardized workflow. Or maybe it will simply add too much complexity. After all, if a wiki becomes to complex, it is not worth editing it anymore. Sorry for being unconstructive. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 13:56, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

:::::::The reason automation will not work in this scenario, at least not be worth the effort, is because virtually every class is formatted differently from all the other classes. Because their are no standards a bot would have a very, very, hard time formatting classes and making a bot that can complete this task would probably take longer than doing it by hand. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 16:33, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

::::::::Would a Class Formatting standard make sense (real question?). [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 01:10, 11 April 2007 (MDT)

:::::::::Most likely, but what would *really* help would be quickly implementing these into the preloads so we don't make our workload any bigger. [[User:Armond|Armond]] 08:52, 11 April 2007 (MDT)

::::::::::My agenda does not leave me time to implement (or even write anything). Out of discussions and tips, my contributions here will mainly be minor edits. I hope you understand. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 09:09, 11 April 2007 (MDT)

:::::::::::It's best to wait for everything to get finalized first, so we don't have to keep changing the preload. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 10:19, 11 April 2007 (MDT)

::(reset indent) Aye, but once we get everything finished the preload will get a huge revision. I was thinking of making sure that new classes don't use the old formatting, thus adding to our workload. [[User:Armond|Armond]] 11:12, 11 April 2007 (MDT)

:::::::::::::I’d prefer you do not reset it. Maybe Green Dragon could modify the CSS for a smaller indentation [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 11:59, 11 April 2007 (MDT)

Talk:Druid (Evaluational Base Class Layout)/Table header

2007-04-11T17:57:20Z

David Latapie:

== Table header ==

Here's an alternate suggestion for the table header.

{| class="d20" id="Table: The Druid"
|+ style="text-align: center;" |
<div style="float:left"> Table: The Druid </div>
Hit Die: d8
|-
! rowspan="2" | Level
! rowspan="2" | Base Attack Bonus
! colspan="3" | [[Saving Throws]]
! rowspan="2" align="left" | Special
! colspan="10" | [[#Spells|Spells per Day]]
|-
! [[Saving Throws#Fortitude|Fort]]
! [[Saving Throws#Reflex|Ref]]
! [[Saving Throws#Will|Will]]
! 0th || 1st || 2nd || 3rd || 4th || 5th || 6th || 7th || 8th || 9th
|-
| 1st
| align="left" | +0 || +2 || +0 || +2
| align="left" | [[#Animal Companion (Ex)|Animal companion]], [[#Nature Sense (Ex)|nature sense]], [[#Wild Empathy (Ex)|wild empathy]]
| 3 || 1 || — || — || — || — || — || — || — || —
|- class="even"
| 2nd
| align="left" | +1 || +3 || +0 || +3
| align="left" | [[#Woodland Stride (Ex)|Woodland stride]]
| 4 || 2 || — || — || — || — || — || — || — || —
|}

# This conceptually places the saving throws together.
# It makes several cosmetic changes in the code which make for easier readability, and hence maintainability.
## Every delimiter ('''|''' or '''||''') is surrounded by spaces to make it easier to find.
## Every cell that includes formatting information starts a new line.
## Every cell that starts a new conceptual block (e.g. spells) starts a new line.
## '''rowspan''' and '''colspan''' come before styles to make the layout stand out more.
## Use '''align="left"''' rather than '''style="text-align: left;"''' because it's easier to understand at a glance, not to mention quicker to type.
## Indent new lines an extra space after the delimiter to make them line up with row markup, and stand out visually from wrapping lines.
# Note the superscripted ordinals. This, admittedly, is harder to maintain, but I think the visual effect is worth it.
# Note the link from '''Spells per Day'''.
--[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] 21:28, 2 April 2007 (MDT)

:I like the saving throws together — a lot. Also I like the <nowiki>'s</nowiki> around the spells per day however I think the level should not use <nowiki>'s</nowiki> as in my opinion it does not look as good. The link from Spells per Day will come in handy when classes start to get formatted this method — good thinking. Overall I think all you need to do is make the "level" column not use <nowiki>'s</nowiki>. Other than that I like this one much more — good work. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:23, 9 April 2007 (MDT)

::I like it except for--putting my [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standardista standartista] hat on-- the #5 ( align="left" rather than style="text-align: left;"). The second is structure/presentation separation and this is much better for maintenance--not talking of semantics, accessibility… An even better solution is to move from inline-styling to separated CSS: move the <code>style="text-align: left</code> to a <code>class</code>. Also, (IMHO) ''Special'' would like better if centered [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 19:11, 9 April 2007 (MDT)

:::I agree—"Special" probably would look better centered. About the <code>style="text-align: left</code> vs. <code>align="left"</code> I am neutral. I see the <code>align="left"</code> as easier to understand for new users and being easier to type all while not following standards as well. I could care less either way. Additionally I agree a <code>class</code> should be made to cover this aspect. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:11, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

::::The <code>class</code> would take care of the readability part. Even better, something like <code>.table-class th {text-align:left}</code> (Ideally, we would use <code>thead th</code> to easily discriminate simple tab and crosstabs, but <code>thead</code> is not allowed/generated by MediaWiki). [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 13:23, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

{| class="d20" id="Table: The Druid"
|+ style="text-align: center;" |
<div style="float:left"> Table: The Druid </div>
Hit Die: d8
|-
! rowspan="2" | Level
! rowspan="2" | Base Attack Bonus
! colspan="3" | [[Saving Throws]]
! rowspan="2" align="center" | Special
! colspan="10" | [[#Spells|Spells per Day]]
|-
! [[Saving Throws#Fortitude|Fort]]
! [[Saving Throws#Reflex|Ref]]
! [[Saving Throws#Will|Will]]
! 0th || 1st || 2nd || 3rd || 4th || 5th || 6th || 7th || 8th || 9th
|-
| 1st
| align="left" | +0 || +2 || +0 || +2
| align="left" | [[#Animal Companion (Ex)|Animal companion]], [[#Nature Sense (Ex)|nature sense]], [[#Wild Empathy (Ex)|wild empathy]]
| 3 || 1 || — || — || — || — || — || — || — || —
|- class="even"
| 2nd
| align="left" | +1 || +3 || +0 || +3
| align="left" | [[#Woodland Stride (Ex)|Woodland stride]]
| 4 || 2 || — || — || — || — || — || — || — || —
|}

Unsuping the levels and moving "special" to center. IMO "special" looks worse, but the levels look better. But everything else is neat! How do we upgrade old tables to this without redoing the entire thing? [[User:Armond|Armond]] 14:40, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

:After fiddling around on the [[Base Assassin (DnD Class)|Base Assassin]], I've changed my mind - center does look better, though now I'm stuck trying to figure out how to right-align the HD. *pokes around* Ugh, can't find it. [[User:Armond|Armond]] 15:03, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

::The HD should not be left aligned — the new books by WotC have the HD in the center and we are following suite. Also, upgrading tables to this method will be easy (as I am sure you just figured out ''':)'''). --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 17:56, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

:::If done well, everything related to presentation shall be done via CSS. AFAIK, only the administrator may modify the CSS—he certainly can give such a writing access to someone else if he sees fit. Once one has writing access to the CSS, upgrading is don in the blonk of an eye. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 01:14, 11 April 2007 (MDT)

::::So if all the headers are now centered, do we want to make it standard practice to make all headers (not just class tables) centered? Also, under spells, it's not "0th", it's just supposed to be "0". —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 07:46, 11 April 2007 (MDT)

:::::I think it is ''O'' at Wizards’s too. There is some antecedents, such as the Isaac Asimov’s “Zeroth Law of Robotics” and the “Zeroth Law of Thermodynamics”. {{unsigned|David Latapie}}

::::::It is 0 (the number, not the letter), but as seen below this presents a small problem. [[User:Armond|Armond]] 11:13, 11 April 2007 (MDT)

:::::::Pardon my mistake. Some months ago, I did not understand how people could ever do such a mistake and I know routinely do it :( [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 11:57, 11 April 2007 (MDT)

{| class="d20" id="Table: The Druid"
|+ style="text-align: center;" |
<div style="float:left"> Table: The Druid </div>
Hit Die: d8
|-
! rowspan="2" | Level
! rowspan="2" | Base Attack Bonus
! colspan="3" | [[Saving Throws]]
! rowspan="2" align="center" | Special
! colspan="10" | [[#Spells|Spells per Day]]
|-
! [[Saving Throws#Fortitude|Fort]]
! [[Saving Throws#Reflex|Ref]]
! [[Saving Throws#Will|Will]]
! 0 || 1st || 2nd || 3rd || 4th || 5th || 6th || 7th || 8th || 9th
|-
| 1st
| align="left" | +0 || +2 || +0 || +2
| align="left" | [[#Animal Companion (Ex)|Animal companion]], [[#Nature Sense (Ex)|nature sense]], [[#Wild Empathy (Ex)|wild empathy]]
| 3 || 1 || — || — || — || — || — || — || — || —
|- class="even"
| 2nd
| align="left" | +1 || +3 || +0 || +3
| align="left" | [[#Woodland Stride (Ex)|Woodland stride]]
| 4 || 2 || — || — || — || — || — || — || — || —
|}

Problem with taking out the "th"... Is there a cleaner way to fix that than simply adding it back in and changing the color to exactly match the background? (Besides, it's pretty awesome :P)

I'd say let's take each table individually and make them look their best instead of arbitrarily making everything centered when we might find something we don't want centered. Upgrade was indeed relatively simple, btw, though I had to fiddle a bit when it decided to put the spell levels under the level/bab/saves (i.e. take out spell levels on a noncasting class). [[User:Armond|Armond]] 08:56, 11 April 2007 (MDT)

Talk:Druid (Evaluational Base Class Layout)/Base attributes

2007-04-11T17:55:33Z

David Latapie:

Talk:Druid (Evaluational Base Class Layout)/Base attributes

2007-04-11T17:54:30Z

David Latapie: /* Base attributes */

Talk:Druid (Evaluational Base Class Layout)/Other

2007-04-11T17:51:06Z

David Latapie: /* Ex#Extraordinary|Ex */

== Starting Money ==

PleasePleasePlease put Starting Money down for all classes, it is up for about 2 classes now. {{Unsigned|64.148.25.129|19:57, 25 March 2007 (MST)}}

:Hopefully that is what [[Template:Description Needed]] will do. Also, I am very sorry starting money it is not on more classes yet. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:30, 25 March 2007 (MDT)

::Hopefully with the preload, people will remember to include starting gold and starting age when they create their base classes. Most users base their class layouts on the the SRD/PHB classes, and because that information isn't in the class descriptions, authors forget to include it. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 15:34, 26 March 2007 (MDT)

:::That is also one of those details left out of the SRD.--[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 14:07, 31 March 2007 (MDT)

:::: *just forgot to include that* Can we get some guidelines and such so we can decide how much to give them? [[User:Armond|Armond]] 14:32, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

:::::It will be added to [[DnD Class Preload]] once [[DnD Class Preload]] is changed to reflect the layout standards being made via the [[Druid (Evaluational Base Class Layout)]]. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 17:54, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

== <s>Too long</s> ==

<s>There's way too much text on this page. Can it be broken into smaller pages? --[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] 20:10, 2 April 2007 (MDT)</s>
:<s>I meant this discussion page, although the same comment could apply to the main page. --[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] 20:47, 2 April 2007 (MDT)</s>
::<s>Fixed by [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] and [User:Green Dragon|]] (especially the latter). [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 19:13, 9 April 2007 (MDT)</s>

== Ex#Extraordinary|Ex ==

I'm not sure I understand the purpose of <nowiki>[[Ex#Extraordinary|Ex]]</nowiki> I prefer just <nowiki>[[Ex]]</nowiki>.[[Ex]]

Oh, I see. The redirect doesn't go to the anchor. I keep hoping we'll get a [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Redirect#A_redirect_to_an_anchor version] that supports that soon. (Blue Dragon?) --[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] 21:45, 2 April 2007 (MDT)

:Latest MediaWiki version do, as evidenced by Wikipedia. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 11:51, 11 April 2007 (MDT)

:MoI him — then he should respond ''':)'''. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 14:40, 5 April 2007 (MDT)

::If I'm not mistaken, redirecting to an anchor is already supported on [[WikiRPS]]. For instance, go to [[wikirps:Contents|Contents]] and select ''Challenge rating'' (under ''Mechanics/Ability checks''). --[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] 17:54, 9 April 2007 (MDT)

:::That would be such a time- (keystroke-?)saver. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 11:39, 11 April 2007 (MDT)

Talk:Druid (Evaluational Base Class Layout)/Table header

2007-04-11T15:11:56Z

David Latapie: /* Table header */

== Table header ==

Here's an alternate suggestion for the table header.

{| class="d20" id="Table: The Druid"
|+ style="text-align: center;" |
<div style="float:left"> Table: The Druid </div>
Hit Die: d8
|-
! rowspan="2" | Level
! rowspan="2" | Base Attack Bonus
! colspan="3" | [[Saving Throws]]
! rowspan="2" align="left" | Special
! colspan="10" | [[#Spells|Spells per Day]]
|-
! [[Saving Throws#Fortitude|Fort]]
! [[Saving Throws#Reflex|Ref]]
! [[Saving Throws#Will|Will]]
! 0th || 1st || 2nd || 3rd || 4th || 5th || 6th || 7th || 8th || 9th
|-
| 1st
| align="left" | +0 || +2 || +0 || +2
| align="left" | [[#Animal Companion (Ex)|Animal companion]], [[#Nature Sense (Ex)|nature sense]], [[#Wild Empathy (Ex)|wild empathy]]
| 3 || 1 || — || — || — || — || — || — || — || —
|- class="even"
| 2nd
| align="left" | +1 || +3 || +0 || +3
| align="left" | [[#Woodland Stride (Ex)|Woodland stride]]
| 4 || 2 || — || — || — || — || — || — || — || —
|}

# This conceptually places the saving throws together.
# It makes several cosmetic changes in the code which make for easier readability, and hence maintainability.
## Every delimiter ('''|''' or '''||''') is surrounded by spaces to make it easier to find.
## Every cell that includes formatting information starts a new line.
## Every cell that starts a new conceptual block (e.g. spells) starts a new line.
## '''rowspan''' and '''colspan''' come before styles to make the layout stand out more.
## Use '''align="left"''' rather than '''style="text-align: left;"''' because it's easier to understand at a glance, not to mention quicker to type.
## Indent new lines an extra space after the delimiter to make them line up with row markup, and stand out visually from wrapping lines.
# Note the superscripted ordinals. This, admittedly, is harder to maintain, but I think the visual effect is worth it.
# Note the link from '''Spells per Day'''.
--[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] 21:28, 2 April 2007 (MDT)

:I like the saving throws together — a lot. Also I like the <nowiki>'s</nowiki> around the spells per day however I think the level should not use <nowiki>'s</nowiki> as in my opinion it does not look as good. The link from Spells per Day will come in handy when classes start to get formatted this method — good thinking. Overall I think all you need to do is make the "level" column not use <nowiki>'s</nowiki>. Other than that I like this one much more — good work. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:23, 9 April 2007 (MDT)

::I like it except for--putting my [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standardista standartista] hat on-- the #5 ( align="left" rather than style="text-align: left;"). The second is structure/presentation separation and this is much better for maintenance--not talking of semantics, accessibility… An even better solution is to move from inline-styling to separated CSS: move the <code>style="text-align: left</code> to a <code>class</code>. Also, (IMHO) ''Special'' would like better if centered [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 19:11, 9 April 2007 (MDT)

:::I agree—"Special" probably would look better centered. About the <code>style="text-align: left</code> vs. <code>align="left"</code> I am neutral. I see the <code>align="left"</code> as easier to understand for new users and being easier to type all while not following standards as well. I could care less either way. Additionally I agree a <code>class</code> should be made to cover this aspect. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:11, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

::::The <code>class</code> would take care of the readability part. Even better, something like <code>.table-class th {text-align:left}</code> (Ideally, we would use <code>thead th</code> to easily discriminate simple tab and crosstabs, but <code>thead</code> is not allowed/generated by MediaWiki). [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 13:23, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

{| class="d20" id="Table: The Druid"
|+ style="text-align: center;" |
<div style="float:left"> Table: The Druid </div>
Hit Die: d8
|-
! rowspan="2" | Level
! rowspan="2" | Base Attack Bonus
! colspan="3" | [[Saving Throws]]
! rowspan="2" align="center" | Special
! colspan="10" | [[#Spells|Spells per Day]]
|-
! [[Saving Throws#Fortitude|Fort]]
! [[Saving Throws#Reflex|Ref]]
! [[Saving Throws#Will|Will]]
! 0th || 1st || 2nd || 3rd || 4th || 5th || 6th || 7th || 8th || 9th
|-
| 1st
| align="left" | +0 || +2 || +0 || +2
| align="left" | [[#Animal Companion (Ex)|Animal companion]], [[#Nature Sense (Ex)|nature sense]], [[#Wild Empathy (Ex)|wild empathy]]
| 3 || 1 || — || — || — || — || — || — || — || —
|- class="even"
| 2nd
| align="left" | +1 || +3 || +0 || +3
| align="left" | [[#Woodland Stride (Ex)|Woodland stride]]
| 4 || 2 || — || — || — || — || — || — || — || —
|}

Unsuping the levels and moving "special" to center. IMO "special" looks worse, but the levels look better. But everything else is neat! How do we upgrade old tables to this without redoing the entire thing? [[User:Armond|Armond]] 14:40, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

:After fiddling around on the [[Base Assassin (DnD Class)|Base Assassin]], I've changed my mind - center does look better, though now I'm stuck trying to figure out how to right-align the HD. *pokes around* Ugh, can't find it. [[User:Armond|Armond]] 15:03, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

::The HD should not be left aligned — the new books by WotC have the HD in the center and we are following suite. Also, upgrading tables to this method will be easy (as I am sure you just figured out ''':)'''). --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 17:56, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

:::If done well, everything related to presentation shall be done via CSS. AFAIK, only the administrator may modify the CSS—he certainly can give such a writing access to someone else if he sees fit. Once one has writing access to the CSS, upgrading is don in the blonk of an eye. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 01:14, 11 April 2007 (MDT)

::::So if all the headers are now centered, do we want to make it standard practice to make all headers (not just class tables) centered? Also, under spells, it's not "0th", it's just supposed to be "0". —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 07:46, 11 April 2007 (MDT)

:::::I think it is ''O'' at Wizards’s too. There is some antecedents, such as the Isaac Asimov’s “Zeroth Law of Robotics” and the “Zeroth Law of Thermodynamics”.

{| class="d20" id="Table: The Druid"
|+ style="text-align: center;" |
<div style="float:left"> Table: The Druid </div>
Hit Die: d8
|-
! rowspan="2" | Level
! rowspan="2" | Base Attack Bonus
! colspan="3" | [[Saving Throws]]
! rowspan="2" align="center" | Special
! colspan="10" | [[#Spells|Spells per Day]]
|-
! [[Saving Throws#Fortitude|Fort]]
! [[Saving Throws#Reflex|Ref]]
! [[Saving Throws#Will|Will]]
! 0 || 1st || 2nd || 3rd || 4th || 5th || 6th || 7th || 8th || 9th
|-
| 1st
| align="left" | +0 || +2 || +0 || +2
| align="left" | [[#Animal Companion (Ex)|Animal companion]], [[#Nature Sense (Ex)|nature sense]], [[#Wild Empathy (Ex)|wild empathy]]
| 3 || 1 || — || — || — || — || — || — || — || —
|- class="even"
| 2nd
| align="left" | +1 || +3 || +0 || +3
| align="left" | [[#Woodland Stride (Ex)|Woodland stride]]
| 4 || 2 || — || — || — || — || — || — || — || —
|}

Problem with taking out the "th"... Is there a cleaner way to fix that than simply adding it back in and changing the color to exactly match the background? (Besides, it's pretty awesome :P)

I'd say let's take each table individually and make them look their best instead of arbitrarily making everything centered when we might find something we don't want centered. Upgrade was indeed relatively simple, btw, though I had to fiddle a bit when it decided to put the spell levels under the level/bab/saves (i.e. take out spell levels on a noncasting class). [[User:Armond|Armond]] 08:56, 11 April 2007 (MDT)

Talk:Druid (Evaluational Base Class Layout)/Bots?

2007-04-11T15:09:48Z

David Latapie: /* Revision */

== Revision ==

* Replaced all the L5s with <s>semicolons</s> bold mark-up (great reduction in ToC).
* Bumped up all L2s though L4s to the next bigger header. (i.e. What were L2s are now L1s, L3s to L2s, and L4s to L3s.)
* After taking another look at the new format in Tome of Battle and Dragon Magic, it seems that the Hit Die info in the table captions is centered, not right-justified.
Go [http://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Druid_%28Evaluational_Base_Class_Layout%29&oldid=87907 here] to see previous version. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 12:07, 21 March 2007 (MDT)

:I'm a little scared to ask, but how are we going to implement all these retroactively? >.> Anyone got an uber-smart bot? [[User:Armond|Armond]] 14:32, 21 March 2007 (MDT)

::I have built a relatively flexible bot base. If all of the ideas are solidified then I would be willing to implement it. — [[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] ([[User_talk:Blue Dragon|talk]]) 16:46, 21 March 2007 (MDT)

:::A bot will not work as basically every class is formatted incorrectly and different from the other incorrectly formatted classes. We are just going to need a lot of help from a lot of people and slowly remove [[Template:Wikify]] from each one as it gets done. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 16:57, 21 March 2007 (MDT)

::::We're going to also need many eyes. I'm pretty good at formatting these things, and after I update a class, sledged or green dragon come behind me and make even more changes. There's just a whole lot of detail to making these classes all come out right and consistently.--[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 14:19, 22 March 2007 (MDT)

:::::Jeez. Is there a way we can make the finalized information easily available to anyone who visits the wiki, in the hopes that anon editors will be able to make a good sized contribution too? [[User:Armond|Armond]] 14:29, 22 March 2007 (MDT)

::::::A good policy ''might'' be to start any major work with: can we automate this? Maybe it will require a standardized workflow. Or maybe it will simply add too much complexity. After all, if a wiki becomes to complex, it is not worth editing it anymore. Sorry for being unconstructive. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 13:56, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

:::::::The reason automation will not work in this scenario, at least not be worth the effort, is because virtually every class is formatted differently from all the other classes. Because their are no standards a bot would have a very, very, hard time formatting classes and making a bot that can complete this task would probably take longer than doing it by hand. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 16:33, 10 April 2007 (MDT)
::::::::Would a Class Formatting standard make sense (real question?). [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 01:10, 11 April 2007 (MDT)
:::::::::Most likely, but what would *really* help would be quickly implementing these into the preloads so we don't make our workload any bigger. [[User:Armond|Armond]] 08:52, 11 April 2007 (MDT)
::::::::::My agenda does not leave me time to implement (or even write anything). Out of discussions and tips, my contributions here will mainly be minor edits. I hope you understand. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 09:09, 11 April 2007 (MDT)

SRD Talk:Epic Obstacles

2007-04-11T10:58:21Z

David Latapie: New page: == Obdurium == '''Obdurium''' (Stronghold handbook of something like that) is not listed here (I understand it is not SRD).~~~~

== Obdurium ==
'''[[Obdurium]]''' (Stronghold handbook of something like that) is not listed here (I understand it is not SRD). [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 04:58, 11 April 2007 (MDT)

SRD Talk:Feats

2007-04-11T10:58:10Z

David Latapie: New page: == Feats compendium == Would [http://www.devinweb.com/featlisting.htm such a thing] infringes copyright? If not, I think it would be worth doing it. We already have the NBoF, a compendium ...

User talk:Green Dragon

2007-04-11T08:32:31Z

David Latapie: /* Me and D&D Wiki */

{{Messages of Interest|messages=
{{MoI-Row
|page=Talk:Main Page
|section=Proposed Color Scheme #3.1
|notifier=EldritchNumen
|date_time=15:16, 28 February 2007 (MST)
}}

}}

{{Archives
|label1= Archive 1 (Discussions 1 – 30)
|label2= Archive 2 (Discussions 31 – 60)
|label3= Archive 3 (Discussions 61 – 90)
|label4= Archive 4 (Discussions 91 – 120)
}}

== RE: Divine Evoker ==

dont worry, i just dont have alot of time on a computer. The class is finished now. {{Unsigned|Alabastor|08:21, 23 February 2007 (MST)}}

:It's fine, as long as you got it done. Thanks for adding it. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:25, 24 February 2007 (MST)

== WikiWorld ==

Is anyone interested in collaborating to work on Wiki World? --[[User:Kamin|Kamin]] 18:04, 24 February 2007 (MST)

:I would contact [[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]]. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:53, 25 February 2007 (MST)

== Question on Policy ==

Hey. I just nominated myself for adminship ([[Requests for Adminship/EldritchNumen]]). What is the policy on advertising? I know, above all, that I should not do any myself. Should it be put on the main page in news? I'm curious because I'm afraid that few people will notice it in recent changes and there will be no voting or discussion... I defer whatever decisions are to be made (if any) to you. I just want to make sure that people know I applied so they can discuss the merit of accepting or rejecting me. Thanks! —[[User:EldritchNumen|EldritchNumen]] 16:33, 25 February 2007 (MST)

:News is the place, I will add it. Thanks for bringing this up before doing it yourself. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 17:23, 25 February 2007 (MST)

== Still alive ==

Alive if you wanted to know. --[[User:Pz.Az.04Maus|Pz.Az.04Maus]] 02:34, 26 February 2007 (MST)

:Thats good. If you want to help out with something let me know, seeing that I have not seen you make edits in a while. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:31, 26 February 2007 (MST)

== Proposed Color Scheme Page ==

Hey. I made the page for the [[Proposed Color Scheme]]. All that needs to be done is a link to this page (Proposed Color Scheme) needs to be added to the News on the main page. The caption could be "DnD Wiki is undergoing a search for a new color scheme. Vote [[Proposed Color Scheme|here]] and tell us what you think!". Feel free to change the proposed color page as it seems best to you. —[[User:EldritchNumen|EldritchNumen]] 01:06, 1 March 2007 (MST)

:Done. Thanks for making that page. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 15:19, 1 March 2007 (MST)

== Wikify? ==

Well, I haven't been on here in a while, and I was looking through the site today, and saw that both articles I've posted need to be 'Wikified'. Problem is, I really don't have a clue what that means. Could you possibly explain so I can fix that problem? [[User:Maverick Wolf|Maverick Wolf]] 10:04, 1 March 2007 (EST)

:To Wikify is a term that means that something needs to be made correctly formatted. So, your class is not formatted correctly, and it needs to be. Formatted correctly refers to the [[DnD Class Preload]] which includes a class="d20" table, bolded abilities, and more. I can wikify your pages if you want, would you like me to? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 14:58, 1 March 2007 (MST)

== Chat ==

i've posted a comment on the discussion panel about the "static field, created by Donnavin Snowolf". could you give your opinion on that?

thanks {{Unsigned|Lucccfilho|00:45, 5 March 2007 (MST)}}

:Yes. I will right now. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:33, 5 March 2007 (MST)

::Do you have msn, ggtalk? --[[User:Luccfilho|Luccfilho]] 23:27, 6 March 2007 (MST)

:::I have gmail (which I rarely stay on for more time than it takes to answer my emails). My email at gmail it great.wyrm.green.dragon@gmail.com and if you catch me on gmail I should be avaible to chat. Why? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 08:54, 7 March 2007 (MST)

== Thanks! ==

Heh, one day into being back to this wiki and you've already helped me out a lot. Thanks much; I thought I mighta missed signing on one of the places I rated, but I didn't have time to check where. The MoI think is handy too.

On a different note, I recently noticed that [[Web]] redirected to [[Web (SRD Spell)]], which redirected to [[SRD: Web (Spell)]]. However, Web itself only redirected once, to Web (SRD), and then the redirect code on Web (SRD) didn't kick in, leaving me on a redirect page. I've changed Web to go directly to SRD: Web, but I was wondering if this was something you should know. [[User:Armond|Armond]] 11:58, 7 March 2007 (MST)

:No problem with the help - I don't mind at all. Also, the things you are talking about are called "Double Redirects" and all of them can be found on the [[Special:Double Redirects|Double redirects]] page. If you have some spare time these double redirects need to be fixed - just like you did with the redirect to [[SRD: Web (Spell)]]. If you don't have any spare time someone else will get around to them as it is not vital they get fixed that soon. Thanks. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 15:28, 7 March 2007 (MST)

::Agh, double redirects, the plague of every wiki. Will get on it when I have time. [[User:Armond|Armond]] 10:48, 8 March 2007 (MST)

:::Pages for deletion due to typos in the name: [[Initiate of Humillity(DnD Exalted Feat)]], [[Royal Cathnakari brestplate (DnD Equipment)]], [[Royal Cathnakari breastplate (DnD Equipment)]], and more to come... Mind if I just keep adding them here? [[User:Armond|Armond]] 10:56, 8 March 2007 (MST)

::::The place to add them is [[Candidates for Deletion]]. If you add them there then you won't clutter up Green Dragon's user page, which he might appreciate! ''':)''' (I tease, of course). I'll delete those three for you, but go ahead and add ones in the future to [[Candidates for Deletion]].
::::'''Addendum:''' please make sure that no other pages link to the page in question before you nominate it for deletion. You can check this using "What links here" in the toolbox on the left. —[[User:EldritchNumen|EldritchNumen]] 11:42, 8 March 2007 (MST)

:::::Where I come from that's the admin's job >.> But ok. I couldn't find a Template:Delete, which is what I'm used to, so I put them here. Thanks for your help. (Friendly people on this wiki.) [[User:156.1.60.60|156.1.60.60]] 12:01, 8 March 2007 (MST) <-- [[User:Armond|Armond]]'s school's IP address (what I get for not logging in again...)

::::::A deletion candidate template sounds like a good idea. Would you mind throwing one together? —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 12:13, 8 March 2007 (MST)

:::::::With a table it may be a good idea to switch [[Candidates for Deletion]] into a dlpc enviroment... What do you guys think? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:09, 9 March 2007 (MST)

== I'm trokking and i messed up my stats ==

:''Moved to [[User talk:EldritchNumen#I'm trokking and i messed up my stats]]''.

== Thanks for the PM ==

Yeah I'm new thank you for the Pm...Somthing I would like to ask though, could a bit more attention be paid to the anti-paladin (this is the one I was trying to help on) and other obscure classes. I am aware that at this moment Rakankou is working on it but I belive it was created never looked at. This makes me wonder what other classes,Items, and spells have been overlooked or given Mis-information. With that out of the way I shall be adding some more Prestige and regular classes to the SRD section Some that I'm sure are in books people have either not purchased yet or just overlooked.
[[User:Da Hoopindexter|Da Hoopindexter]] 20:51, 7 March 2007 (MST)

:No problem with the PM. Also, their are quite a lot of "overlooked" classes - they are normally distinquishable by their low balance ratings. If you want to help out a class just find one with a low balance rating and read over the rating - figuring out what needs to be changed. Make some changes and I am sure it will be re-rated with your changes in mind. Look over the new rating and consider again, all the while while conversing with the person that is rating the certain class. This is the easiest way to help out classes. Also, are you planning on adding [[OGL]] content? I am asking because not all published material by Wizards of the Coast is [[OGL]]. Before posting anything that is not homebrew make sure that it is [[OGL]] for then it is okay to post. Thanks. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 21:45, 7 March 2007 (MST)

::I am aware that quite a few things have been published with the [[OGL]]. I am talking about material from Stormwrack, Draconomicon, and a few others. --[[User:Da Hoopindexter|Da Hoopindexter]] 05:12, 8 March 2007 (MST)

:::Actually, almost all of that material is '''NOT''' OGL material. Check the inside front of the books (on the page with the copyright information). If it reads, "None of the content in this book is Open Game Content" then you can't add anything. I think stormwrack and the draconomicon both fit into that category... sorry. —[[User:EldritchNumen|EldritchNumen]] 06:09, 8 March 2007 (MST)

::::ok I see now thank you for Clearing things up...[[User:Da Hoopindexter|Da Hoopindexter]] 14:49, 8 March 2007 (MST)

:::::Normally its a better idea to use [[D&D Wiki:Items to be added]] if you want to help with adding content. Give [[D&D Wiki:Items to be added]] a try; see if you like it. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:02, 9 March 2007 (MST)

== Link Creation ==

while i am quick to adapt to the format of the tables and what not, i still am not abke to figure out how to place a link on a page (mostly for my user page) ==[[User:Alabastor|Alabastor]] 07:20, 8 March 2007 (MST)==

:Place brackets (on a qwerty keyboard, next to the p) around the name of the page you want to link to. For example, <nowiki>[[Main Page]]</nowiki> will link to the main page; <nowiki>[[User:Alabastor]]</nowiki> will link to your user page. (Be sure to check that you have the page namespaces, such as the User:, in the link or it won't work properly.) You can also give a link a caption, of sorts, by placing a "pipe line" (right above the enter key on a qwerty, use the shift key) between the name of the page you're linking to and what you want to call it. So, for example, <nowiki>[[User:Alabastor|Visit my page!]]</nowiki> will show up as [[User:Alabastor|Visit my page!]] [[User:Armond|Armond]] 10:47, 8 March 2007 (MST)

::thank you ==[[User:Alabastor|Alabastor]] 06:37, 9 March 2007 (MST)==

:::It should be noted that this will only work with links that link to something on this site - there is a different method for external links. If you are not 100% sure about basic formatting a good place to look is [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Editing WP:Help:Editing]. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:07, 9 March 2007 (MST)

== Invitation for alpha testing ==

Hey there. If you have time on your hands, I'd like to ask you to take a look at [[User:Armond/Deadly Assassin (DnD Prestige Class)]] for balance. There are a few things I'm concerned about, which I've listed at the very top of the page's coding in comment brackets. I feel it's only fair to warn you, however, that I've introduced a couple new game mechanics in that class, so it will likely take you a while to read and understand it all - but if you have the time and are willing, I'd really appreciate your input. If not, no worries, but if you know someone else who might be willing to help me find the bugs, I'd appreciate it if you'd let them know. Again, if you can't you can't, and I appreciate the thought all the same. Thanks! [[User:Armond|Armond]] 00:41, 13 March 2007 (MDT)

== Rokahnar (DnD Campaign Setting) ==

:''Moved to [[Talk:Rokahnar (DnD Campaign Setting)#Updates]]''.

== Locked double redirects ==

If you would...

*<s>[[Vulnerability to Energy (SRD Creature Ability)]] to [[SRD:Vulnerability to Energy (Special Ability)]]</s>
*<s>[[Gaze (SRD Creature Ability)]] to [[SRD:Gaze (Special Ability)]]</s>
*<s>[[Telepathy (SRD Creature Ability)]] to [[SRD:Telepathy (Special Ability)]]</s>
*<s>[[Spells (SRD Creature Ability)]] to [[SRD:Spells (Special Ability)]]</s>
*<s>[[Spell Resistance (SRD Creature Ability)]] to [[SRD:Spell Resistance and Spell Immunity (Special Ability)]]</s>
*<s>[[Special Abilities (SRD Creature Ability)]] to [[SRD:Special Abilities Overview (Rules)]]</s>

Will post more unless you protest :P [[User:Armond|Armond]] 12:37, 13 March 2007 (MDT)

:I just fixed those. Also, you can either post the locked double redirects here (if their are not too many) or I can look at [[Special:DoubleRedirects]] and fix them if their are a lot of locked ones. Your call. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 18:15, 13 March 2007 (MDT)

::Thanks bunches. There's still over 500 double redirects, though, and those are the only three I've found so far out of the 100 or so I've done. If I find a bunch of locked ones I'll leave them alone and let you know (I go at them from the back of the list to the front, so they'll all be left at the back). Again, thanks. As a friend of mine once said, mod powers indeed rule. [[User:Armond|Armond]] 22:32, 13 March 2007 (MDT)

:::Okay, I will work on them as time permits. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:39, 13 March 2007 (MDT)

== Proposal for a new entry at preload ==

Hello,

As you can see at [[Acolyte of Compassion (DnD_Exalted_Feat)|Acolyte of Compassion]], I manually added an entry, '''Pre-requisite for:'''. I humbly suggest you to add it to pre-load, with a value of ''none'' when a feat has no relation.

Have a nice day. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) 11:27, 18 March 2007 (MDT)

:Before I add that I have a simple question. Does the "'''Pre-requisite for:'''" look better on the top (where I just added it) or on the bottom (where you had it)? Once we figure that out I will be more than happy to change the pre-load template. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:14, 18 March 2007 (MDT)

::Hello Green Dragon and thank you for your warm welcome! Since both '''Requirements''' and '''Pre-requisite for:''' are semantically connected, I would either:
::* put '''requirements''' at the beginning and '''Pre-requisite for:''' at the end (chronological order, sort of) or
::* put them on the same line, with '''requirements''' on the left and '''Pre-requisite for:''' on the right. In this case, they would be on the top. As an additionnal advantage, they could both be in the same container (<code>div</code>), which I think would make them easier to manage. My preference goes for this one (which also take into consideration your proposal) but this is something I prefer not to do myself, as it requires deep change in the layout, something I don't think I have the credentials to do.
::Hope this helps. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) 12:26, 18 March 2007 (MDT)

:::Hm... Currently WotC does not have a section for "'''Pre-requisite for:'''" so I do not think it should part of the feats main area. I think above or below the feats header may be the best choice. Currently I changed [[Acolyte of Compassion (DnD Exalted Feat)|Acolyte of Compassion]] so it is above the header, does this look better or worse than above the "Back to" footer? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 18:53, 19 March 2007 (MDT)
::::I understand you want to stick with WotC formatting (or at least show the difference between regular formating and our additions. That being said, their formatting sucks (a particularly obvious example is ''Weapon Supremacy'' in PHII. I created a new template to better illustrate what I was thinking about, but the limitations of D&dDwiki do not allow me to display it accurately (you would have to change the settings to make it work). 
<nowiki><div></nowiki>
<nowiki>Requisites:</nowiki>
<nowiki>Prerequisites for:</nowiki>
<nowiki></div></nowiki>
<nowiki><div style="clear:both"></div></nowiki>
<nowiki>Lorem ipsum dolor</nowiki>
::::I do not know you level of HTML understanding. Tell me if you do not understand this code. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) 07:18, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

:::::I'd say add it at the bottom, because unlike the rest of the feat information, it's subject to change based on user-submitted feats. Every time a feat is added that uses the first one as a prereq, the first feat's page has to be changed to add the new feat to the list. Also, if this is added, I say add a '''Required For''' section for PrCs that have the feat as a requirement. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 09:11, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

::::::I'm still for the top however this discussion should not be taking place here. This needs to be moved to [[Talk:DnD Feats]]. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 23:06, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

== Me and D&D Wiki ==

As a reply for your welcome request:
* '''how much time you would like to spend working:''' Not much and this would be spelling/typo/layout. I am more a GURPS person and enclined to minimalism, that GURPS achieved better than D20. I am presently working on ''Lone Wolf'' RPG, which is D20. This explains that.
* '''how well you know the Wiki Format:''' fairly well, as I created most of the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Forgotten_Realms WikiProject Forgotten Realms] and the [http://towerofthesun.com/wiki/ TotSwiki]. I am not an expert, just an advanced user. For instance, most of the template/macro is unknown to me.
* '''how well you know D&D:''' fairly well too. I played AD&D2 intensively for three years, I read a lot of AD&D2 and DD&D3 rulebooks. I hope to make things efficient by, for instance, avoid ''data fragmentation'' (pieces of data everywhere and one has to check several site ton understanf the whole of it) and to attain ''minimalism'' (for instance, by removing redundancy). Clean, elegant, geeky. Something that attracted me in GURPS, by the way.
Voilà! [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) 12:34, 18 March 2007 (MDT)

:Oh. Well, welcome again. If you want to help out, and have spare time, you could start with some cross referencing to the SRD and other places on D&D Wiki. Thats a job that always needs to get done (along with double redirects)... --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:06, 19 March 2007 (MDT)

== On Stacking—inherit/cascade ==
A question I'm considering is the one of stacking:
* For now, effects stack and to know an advanced feat’s power, one has to check the previous one too (BAD). On the other hand, a change in a previous feat immediately affect the higher one (GOOD). In geek-tongue, this is <code>inherit</code> or “cascading”.
* If effects of feats do not stack (instead of “master gives +3, stacks with acolyte”,“master gives +5 and do not stack with previous levels”), they we can see all capabilites of an über-feat at a glance (GOOD). But it also means that inheritance is broken, so if we change a lower feat, we have to manually change the higher ones (BAD)

I would tend to favour the present, first solution, but would like to know if you already considered this. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) 12:44, 18 March 2007 (MDT)

:Bring this up on [[Talk:DnD Feats]] as my talk page is not the place for the community to decide about this. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:07, 19 March 2007 (MDT)

== Code foresight ==

[[DnD Weapon Group Feats]] — <code>- style="vertical-align: top;"</code> is visible. {{Unsigned|David Latapie|12:36, 18 March 2007 (MST)}}

:Fixed. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 18:54, 19 March 2007 (MDT)

== Links for NBoF ==
Hi,

You may consider adding relevant links for NBoF articles, like for pre-requisites ([[Up_And_Down_(DnD_General_and_Fighter_Feat)|example]])). A great advantage of d20srd.org is the amount on cross-references. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) 13:36, 18 March 2007 (MDT)

:Adding wiki links is always a job that needs to be done — I will do them when I have time. However, on non-locked pages, you can add them all you want ''':)'''. I would say make links to the SRD on classes and continue onwards from that point — if you have spare time. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 18:58, 19 March 2007 (MDT)

::Ideally, recourse to massive transclusion would allow automatic linking (<nowiki>{{Improved Trip}}</nowiki>). See my post about the wiktionary. A bot is a possibility (but I don't know how to program this), a script that take every comma-separated value and wikify it is another one. Automation is seldom bad, but seldom easy too :/ [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) 08:21, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

:::Transclusion would not help much. However, a bot that automatically adds internal links would be great... Hm, something for Blue Dragon to work on. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 23:08, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

== MSRD Skills ==

I just went back to change all the MSRD skills from '''_____ (MSRD Skill)''' to '''MSRD:_____ (Skill)''' and noticed that you had already done it for me. Just wanted to say thanks! —[[User:EldritchNumen|EldritchNumen]] 17:20, 19 March 2007 (MDT)

:No problem, the entire MSRD now should be part of its own Namespace. I hope I helped. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 18:59, 19 March 2007 (MDT)

== References to other D20 systems ==

One of the beings i am entering, [[Alabastor (DnD Deity)]], has an ability from the WoT series. is it possible for me to make a page covering this ability, or is this site strictly D&D? (the ability in question is the madness from the male casters) ==[[User:Alabastor|Alabastor]] 08:14, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

:First off I would like to say that WoT is ''the best'' book series I have ever read with only major flaw — there will only be 12 main books. However, I think it would be okay to add the madness ability (which was fixed by Rand...) if you made it very D&D related. Also, just say you got your idea from the WoT and it should be okay... Disregard this message ''if'' there is a roleplaying game based on WoT because if that is the case then I will have to change my outlook on this. Also, please tell me if this is the case. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 18:30, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

::Oh yeah, thats not a problem. im just not sure what it is off the top of my head, but we did change it around a bit, like taking a feat to control it somewhat. Ill get the info and mention the source ==[[User:Alabastor|Alabastor]] 18:52, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

:::Okay, that should work. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:34, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

==Thanks for the Welcome==
Once I find my way around the site, I'll start helping out with contributions.  [[User:Hooper|''' Hooper ''']][[User talk:Hooper|  talk  ]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|  contribs  ]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|  email  ]] 20:13, 24 March 2007 (MDT)

:Sounds good. ''':)'''. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 00:49, 25 March 2007 (MDT)

== Thanks for the welcome ==

Thank you for the welcome. I'm fairly experienced with wiki formatting, but I'm an expert in most aspects of the d20 rules. That's why I made the comments that I did about the Gemini Dancer. The question I wanted to ask was about how do I display my re-writes for the person in charge of the page to review and evaluate. {{Unsigned|Pilitus|10:18, 6 April 2007 (MDT)}}

:No problem. As for the [[Gemini Dancer (DnD Class)|Gemini Dancer]] changes I would post what you want changed on [[Talk:Gemini Dancer (DnD Class)|Talk:Gemini Dancer]] and then change the actual class. This is okay to do for a couple reasons. One is that the author has not asked that his class be locked so it is expected that if something better is possible it should be implemented. Another reason it is okay is because once the author sees the changes he can revert them if he does not like them, and comment on them on the talk page. So, tell what changes you have made on the talk page, make the changes, and everything should be okay. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:44, 7 April 2007 (MDT)

== Hey Green dragon ==

Well First off I am not new to DnD, I started a few months after 3.5 came out, had a fling with 3.0 but preferred 3.5 So I have been playing Dungeons and Dragons for quite a few years now. I am into building my own custom classes. (I prefer a well made base class over building a PrC, except in games where powergaming is the key to survival). I am what you could call an optimizer, but I am not insane like the people on the Charecter Op boards.

I should be able to put in an hour or two a week, more in holidays less when homework and exams are due.

I have absolutely no experience with the Wiki format, so this is all new for me, and everytime I edit something I pray that I don't accidently delete someones message. But any way I think I answered all your questions. But basically my biggest issue is understanding the wiki format, doesn't look to complicated, just take me a while to get the gist of it I think
[[User:Linkrulesx10|Linkrulesx10]] 19:38, 7 April 2007 (MDT)

:Hello Linkrulesx10. Its good that you prefer and only use 3.5e because sometimes people that have played 3e and have converted themselves to 3.5e make messy creations that are a blend of 3e and 3.5e. Also, I look forward to your classes when you post them here even though classes are one of the most confusing things to get right in D&D Wiki's format. However, if you want to get to know the wiki format better, have nothing better to do, and want to help out a good cause, you could always help D&D Wiki. Below are a couple things that I think would teach you the wiki format quickly — starting from #1 being easy to the last being much harder.
:# '''Fix 5 or so double redirects —''' Go to [[Special:Doubleredirects]]. Next click on the small red edit by one of them. Then fix the redirect by making it link to the last choice on the same line. For example make [[Armor Construction Guide (DnD Equipment)]] link to [[Armor Construction Guide (DnD Guideline)]] '''not''' [[Armor Construction Guide (DnD Other)]]. What this is does is make a redirect not have to redirect the user twice and overall speeding up the loading time for users.
:# '''Rate 5 or so Classes —''' As you said above you like classes and I am sure this means you also understand them. So go to [[User Base Classes with Descriptions]] and click on a class that has "NR (Not Rated)" in its balance column. Read through the class and make sure to understand it. Next, on the very top of the page, click the "''here''" in "''Please, help D&D Wiki by rating the balance of this item here.''" Make sure to follow the [[Balance System]] when determining what balance to give the class and make sure to follow the [[DnD Balance Formatting Template]] when formatting your rating.
:# '''Look through the "Transformational Variant Rules" —''' Recently [[DnD Rules]] has been switched from one kind of rule — variant, to two kinds — Transformational Variant Rules and Supplemental Variant Rules however this switch is not done. So, it would be a great help if you could help it along. So, go to [[DnD Rules]]. Next click on any Transformational Variant Rule. Look it over and come to understand it. When you have understood it decide if it is a Supplemental Variant Rule or a Transformational Variant Rule. If it is a Supplemental Variant Rule edit the page and add <nowiki>[[Category:Supplemental Variant Rule]]</nowiki> on the very bottom. If it is a Transformational Variant Rule edit the page and on the very bottom add <nowiki>[[Category:Transformational Variant Rule]]</nowiki>. After these categories have been added [[DnD Rules]] will automatically change the collumn of the rule — if it changed at all. Doing this would help D&D Wiki a great deal.
:# '''Look at the To-Do list —''' Take a glance over at the [[To-Do List]] and see if anything their interests you.
:I hope this helps you to understand wiki formatting better. Also what I gave above are only a few options of what needs to get done on D&D Wiki. If you want more please tell me and I will be more than happy to add more things to the above list. Thanks, and I hope you like D&D Wiki. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 11:03, 8 April 2007 (MDT)

== Management of the Druid provisional class discussion ==

Hi Green Dragon,

Congratulations for the amount of work you done. I think you did not know about the ''/'' operator and that was my contribution to the task, but your work is really impressive, I would not have had courage to do all this—and you did it very well.

This is a pleasure to work with you :-) [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 18:46, 9 April 2007 (MDT)

:It is a pleasure to work with you as well — you have helped make the formatting of base classes a lot better already. Also, I improved [[Talk:Druid (Evaluational Base Class Layout)]] once more, I hope it is even easier to understand. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 10:19, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

::Thank you for your kind words. Yes, the new layout is even better! May I suggest something? Create <code>.done {opacity:.6;text-decoration:line-through}</code> and apply it to the relevant <code>tr</code> (if it doesn't work, use <code>tr.done *</code> or <code>th.done, td.done</code>) [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 11:59, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

:::I changed it. Is the current method more like what you proposed? I am asking because I changed it a little bit (no strikethrough). --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:54, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

== Mediawiki collaboration ==

Green Dragon, I plan to set up a MediaWiki soon and, if the need arises, I am completely confident in your ability to solve my problem, should I have to ask (I will try not to, as you surely are as busy as I am, if not more).

Great teamwork. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 13:15, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

:Just curious, what kind of wiki are you setting up? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:16, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

::An English photowiki about the Streets of Paris. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 13:18, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

:::I would be more than happy to help, however I don't really know much about the subject... Do you have a site yet? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:20, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

::::Not yet, not yet. I yet have to download MediaWikie (five hours ago, I was still thinking of a blog). I will not have any problem with the topic, only, maybe, some with the technical part. I'll let you know. It warms my heart to know I could count on you if necessary. Keep well. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 13:37, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

Hi,
I'm installing MediaWiki 1.9.3 on my server. Any option you would like to comment on (before it is too late)? Of particular importance is the choice between <code>Experimental MySQL 4.1/5.0 UTF-8</code> and <code>Experimental MySQL 4.1/5.0 Binary</code> (I’d go for the first one, but what is the second one?) [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 02:00, 11 April 2007 (MDT)

How can I give rights to someone else? [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 02:31, 11 April 2007 (MDT)

User talk:Green Dragon

2007-04-11T08:31:24Z

David Latapie: /* Mediawiki collaboration */

{{Messages of Interest|messages=
{{MoI-Row
|page=Talk:Main Page
|section=Proposed Color Scheme #3.1
|notifier=EldritchNumen
|date_time=15:16, 28 February 2007 (MST)
}}

}}

{{Archives
|label1= Archive 1 (Discussions 1 – 30)
|label2= Archive 2 (Discussions 31 – 60)
|label3= Archive 3 (Discussions 61 – 90)
|label4= Archive 4 (Discussions 91 – 120)
}}

== RE: Divine Evoker ==

dont worry, i just dont have alot of time on a computer. The class is finished now. {{Unsigned|Alabastor|08:21, 23 February 2007 (MST)}}

:It's fine, as long as you got it done. Thanks for adding it. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:25, 24 February 2007 (MST)

== WikiWorld ==

Is anyone interested in collaborating to work on Wiki World? --[[User:Kamin|Kamin]] 18:04, 24 February 2007 (MST)

:I would contact [[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]]. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:53, 25 February 2007 (MST)

== Question on Policy ==

Hey. I just nominated myself for adminship ([[Requests for Adminship/EldritchNumen]]). What is the policy on advertising? I know, above all, that I should not do any myself. Should it be put on the main page in news? I'm curious because I'm afraid that few people will notice it in recent changes and there will be no voting or discussion... I defer whatever decisions are to be made (if any) to you. I just want to make sure that people know I applied so they can discuss the merit of accepting or rejecting me. Thanks! —[[User:EldritchNumen|EldritchNumen]] 16:33, 25 February 2007 (MST)

:News is the place, I will add it. Thanks for bringing this up before doing it yourself. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 17:23, 25 February 2007 (MST)

== Still alive ==

Alive if you wanted to know. --[[User:Pz.Az.04Maus|Pz.Az.04Maus]] 02:34, 26 February 2007 (MST)

:Thats good. If you want to help out with something let me know, seeing that I have not seen you make edits in a while. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:31, 26 February 2007 (MST)

== Proposed Color Scheme Page ==

Hey. I made the page for the [[Proposed Color Scheme]]. All that needs to be done is a link to this page (Proposed Color Scheme) needs to be added to the News on the main page. The caption could be "DnD Wiki is undergoing a search for a new color scheme. Vote [[Proposed Color Scheme|here]] and tell us what you think!". Feel free to change the proposed color page as it seems best to you. —[[User:EldritchNumen|EldritchNumen]] 01:06, 1 March 2007 (MST)

:Done. Thanks for making that page. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 15:19, 1 March 2007 (MST)

== Wikify? ==

Well, I haven't been on here in a while, and I was looking through the site today, and saw that both articles I've posted need to be 'Wikified'. Problem is, I really don't have a clue what that means. Could you possibly explain so I can fix that problem? [[User:Maverick Wolf|Maverick Wolf]] 10:04, 1 March 2007 (EST)

:To Wikify is a term that means that something needs to be made correctly formatted. So, your class is not formatted correctly, and it needs to be. Formatted correctly refers to the [[DnD Class Preload]] which includes a class="d20" table, bolded abilities, and more. I can wikify your pages if you want, would you like me to? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 14:58, 1 March 2007 (MST)

== Chat ==

i've posted a comment on the discussion panel about the "static field, created by Donnavin Snowolf". could you give your opinion on that?

thanks {{Unsigned|Lucccfilho|00:45, 5 March 2007 (MST)}}

:Yes. I will right now. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:33, 5 March 2007 (MST)

::Do you have msn, ggtalk? --[[User:Luccfilho|Luccfilho]] 23:27, 6 March 2007 (MST)

:::I have gmail (which I rarely stay on for more time than it takes to answer my emails). My email at gmail it great.wyrm.green.dragon@gmail.com and if you catch me on gmail I should be avaible to chat. Why? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 08:54, 7 March 2007 (MST)

== Thanks! ==

Heh, one day into being back to this wiki and you've already helped me out a lot. Thanks much; I thought I mighta missed signing on one of the places I rated, but I didn't have time to check where. The MoI think is handy too.

On a different note, I recently noticed that [[Web]] redirected to [[Web (SRD Spell)]], which redirected to [[SRD: Web (Spell)]]. However, Web itself only redirected once, to Web (SRD), and then the redirect code on Web (SRD) didn't kick in, leaving me on a redirect page. I've changed Web to go directly to SRD: Web, but I was wondering if this was something you should know. [[User:Armond|Armond]] 11:58, 7 March 2007 (MST)

:No problem with the help - I don't mind at all. Also, the things you are talking about are called "Double Redirects" and all of them can be found on the [[Special:Double Redirects|Double redirects]] page. If you have some spare time these double redirects need to be fixed - just like you did with the redirect to [[SRD: Web (Spell)]]. If you don't have any spare time someone else will get around to them as it is not vital they get fixed that soon. Thanks. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 15:28, 7 March 2007 (MST)

::Agh, double redirects, the plague of every wiki. Will get on it when I have time. [[User:Armond|Armond]] 10:48, 8 March 2007 (MST)

:::Pages for deletion due to typos in the name: [[Initiate of Humillity(DnD Exalted Feat)]], [[Royal Cathnakari brestplate (DnD Equipment)]], [[Royal Cathnakari breastplate (DnD Equipment)]], and more to come... Mind if I just keep adding them here? [[User:Armond|Armond]] 10:56, 8 March 2007 (MST)

::::The place to add them is [[Candidates for Deletion]]. If you add them there then you won't clutter up Green Dragon's user page, which he might appreciate! ''':)''' (I tease, of course). I'll delete those three for you, but go ahead and add ones in the future to [[Candidates for Deletion]].
::::'''Addendum:''' please make sure that no other pages link to the page in question before you nominate it for deletion. You can check this using "What links here" in the toolbox on the left. —[[User:EldritchNumen|EldritchNumen]] 11:42, 8 March 2007 (MST)

:::::Where I come from that's the admin's job >.> But ok. I couldn't find a Template:Delete, which is what I'm used to, so I put them here. Thanks for your help. (Friendly people on this wiki.) [[User:156.1.60.60|156.1.60.60]] 12:01, 8 March 2007 (MST) <-- [[User:Armond|Armond]]'s school's IP address (what I get for not logging in again...)

::::::A deletion candidate template sounds like a good idea. Would you mind throwing one together? —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 12:13, 8 March 2007 (MST)

:::::::With a table it may be a good idea to switch [[Candidates for Deletion]] into a dlpc enviroment... What do you guys think? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:09, 9 March 2007 (MST)

== I'm trokking and i messed up my stats ==

:''Moved to [[User talk:EldritchNumen#I'm trokking and i messed up my stats]]''.

== Thanks for the PM ==

Yeah I'm new thank you for the Pm...Somthing I would like to ask though, could a bit more attention be paid to the anti-paladin (this is the one I was trying to help on) and other obscure classes. I am aware that at this moment Rakankou is working on it but I belive it was created never looked at. This makes me wonder what other classes,Items, and spells have been overlooked or given Mis-information. With that out of the way I shall be adding some more Prestige and regular classes to the SRD section Some that I'm sure are in books people have either not purchased yet or just overlooked.
[[User:Da Hoopindexter|Da Hoopindexter]] 20:51, 7 March 2007 (MST)

:No problem with the PM. Also, their are quite a lot of "overlooked" classes - they are normally distinquishable by their low balance ratings. If you want to help out a class just find one with a low balance rating and read over the rating - figuring out what needs to be changed. Make some changes and I am sure it will be re-rated with your changes in mind. Look over the new rating and consider again, all the while while conversing with the person that is rating the certain class. This is the easiest way to help out classes. Also, are you planning on adding [[OGL]] content? I am asking because not all published material by Wizards of the Coast is [[OGL]]. Before posting anything that is not homebrew make sure that it is [[OGL]] for then it is okay to post. Thanks. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 21:45, 7 March 2007 (MST)

::I am aware that quite a few things have been published with the [[OGL]]. I am talking about material from Stormwrack, Draconomicon, and a few others. --[[User:Da Hoopindexter|Da Hoopindexter]] 05:12, 8 March 2007 (MST)

:::Actually, almost all of that material is '''NOT''' OGL material. Check the inside front of the books (on the page with the copyright information). If it reads, "None of the content in this book is Open Game Content" then you can't add anything. I think stormwrack and the draconomicon both fit into that category... sorry. —[[User:EldritchNumen|EldritchNumen]] 06:09, 8 March 2007 (MST)

::::ok I see now thank you for Clearing things up...[[User:Da Hoopindexter|Da Hoopindexter]] 14:49, 8 March 2007 (MST)

:::::Normally its a better idea to use [[D&D Wiki:Items to be added]] if you want to help with adding content. Give [[D&D Wiki:Items to be added]] a try; see if you like it. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:02, 9 March 2007 (MST)

== Link Creation ==

while i am quick to adapt to the format of the tables and what not, i still am not abke to figure out how to place a link on a page (mostly for my user page) ==[[User:Alabastor|Alabastor]] 07:20, 8 March 2007 (MST)==

:Place brackets (on a qwerty keyboard, next to the p) around the name of the page you want to link to. For example, <nowiki>[[Main Page]]</nowiki> will link to the main page; <nowiki>[[User:Alabastor]]</nowiki> will link to your user page. (Be sure to check that you have the page namespaces, such as the User:, in the link or it won't work properly.) You can also give a link a caption, of sorts, by placing a "pipe line" (right above the enter key on a qwerty, use the shift key) between the name of the page you're linking to and what you want to call it. So, for example, <nowiki>[[User:Alabastor|Visit my page!]]</nowiki> will show up as [[User:Alabastor|Visit my page!]] [[User:Armond|Armond]] 10:47, 8 March 2007 (MST)

::thank you ==[[User:Alabastor|Alabastor]] 06:37, 9 March 2007 (MST)==

:::It should be noted that this will only work with links that link to something on this site - there is a different method for external links. If you are not 100% sure about basic formatting a good place to look is [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Editing WP:Help:Editing]. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:07, 9 March 2007 (MST)

== Invitation for alpha testing ==

Hey there. If you have time on your hands, I'd like to ask you to take a look at [[User:Armond/Deadly Assassin (DnD Prestige Class)]] for balance. There are a few things I'm concerned about, which I've listed at the very top of the page's coding in comment brackets. I feel it's only fair to warn you, however, that I've introduced a couple new game mechanics in that class, so it will likely take you a while to read and understand it all - but if you have the time and are willing, I'd really appreciate your input. If not, no worries, but if you know someone else who might be willing to help me find the bugs, I'd appreciate it if you'd let them know. Again, if you can't you can't, and I appreciate the thought all the same. Thanks! [[User:Armond|Armond]] 00:41, 13 March 2007 (MDT)

== Rokahnar (DnD Campaign Setting) ==

:''Moved to [[Talk:Rokahnar (DnD Campaign Setting)#Updates]]''.

== Locked double redirects ==

If you would...

*<s>[[Vulnerability to Energy (SRD Creature Ability)]] to [[SRD:Vulnerability to Energy (Special Ability)]]</s>
*<s>[[Gaze (SRD Creature Ability)]] to [[SRD:Gaze (Special Ability)]]</s>
*<s>[[Telepathy (SRD Creature Ability)]] to [[SRD:Telepathy (Special Ability)]]</s>
*<s>[[Spells (SRD Creature Ability)]] to [[SRD:Spells (Special Ability)]]</s>
*<s>[[Spell Resistance (SRD Creature Ability)]] to [[SRD:Spell Resistance and Spell Immunity (Special Ability)]]</s>
*<s>[[Special Abilities (SRD Creature Ability)]] to [[SRD:Special Abilities Overview (Rules)]]</s>

Will post more unless you protest :P [[User:Armond|Armond]] 12:37, 13 March 2007 (MDT)

:I just fixed those. Also, you can either post the locked double redirects here (if their are not too many) or I can look at [[Special:DoubleRedirects]] and fix them if their are a lot of locked ones. Your call. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 18:15, 13 March 2007 (MDT)

::Thanks bunches. There's still over 500 double redirects, though, and those are the only three I've found so far out of the 100 or so I've done. If I find a bunch of locked ones I'll leave them alone and let you know (I go at them from the back of the list to the front, so they'll all be left at the back). Again, thanks. As a friend of mine once said, mod powers indeed rule. [[User:Armond|Armond]] 22:32, 13 March 2007 (MDT)

:::Okay, I will work on them as time permits. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:39, 13 March 2007 (MDT)

== Proposal for a new entry at preload ==

Hello,

As you can see at [[Acolyte of Compassion (DnD_Exalted_Feat)|Acolyte of Compassion]], I manually added an entry, '''Pre-requisite for:'''. I humbly suggest you to add it to pre-load, with a value of ''none'' when a feat has no relation.

Have a nice day. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) 11:27, 18 March 2007 (MDT)

:Before I add that I have a simple question. Does the "'''Pre-requisite for:'''" look better on the top (where I just added it) or on the bottom (where you had it)? Once we figure that out I will be more than happy to change the pre-load template. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:14, 18 March 2007 (MDT)

::Hello Green Dragon and thank you for your warm welcome! Since both '''Requirements''' and '''Pre-requisite for:''' are semantically connected, I would either:
::* put '''requirements''' at the beginning and '''Pre-requisite for:''' at the end (chronological order, sort of) or
::* put them on the same line, with '''requirements''' on the left and '''Pre-requisite for:''' on the right. In this case, they would be on the top. As an additionnal advantage, they could both be in the same container (<code>div</code>), which I think would make them easier to manage. My preference goes for this one (which also take into consideration your proposal) but this is something I prefer not to do myself, as it requires deep change in the layout, something I don't think I have the credentials to do.
::Hope this helps. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) 12:26, 18 March 2007 (MDT)

:::Hm... Currently WotC does not have a section for "'''Pre-requisite for:'''" so I do not think it should part of the feats main area. I think above or below the feats header may be the best choice. Currently I changed [[Acolyte of Compassion (DnD Exalted Feat)|Acolyte of Compassion]] so it is above the header, does this look better or worse than above the "Back to" footer? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 18:53, 19 March 2007 (MDT)
::::I understand you want to stick with WotC formatting (or at least show the difference between regular formating and our additions. That being said, their formatting sucks (a particularly obvious example is ''Weapon Supremacy'' in PHII. I created a new template to better illustrate what I was thinking about, but the limitations of D&dDwiki do not allow me to display it accurately (you would have to change the settings to make it work). 
<nowiki><div></nowiki>
<nowiki>Requisites:</nowiki>
<nowiki>Prerequisites for:</nowiki>
<nowiki></div></nowiki>
<nowiki><div style="clear:both"></div></nowiki>
<nowiki>Lorem ipsum dolor</nowiki>
::::I do not know you level of HTML understanding. Tell me if you do not understand this code. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) 07:18, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

:::::I'd say add it at the bottom, because unlike the rest of the feat information, it's subject to change based on user-submitted feats. Every time a feat is added that uses the first one as a prereq, the first feat's page has to be changed to add the new feat to the list. Also, if this is added, I say add a '''Required For''' section for PrCs that have the feat as a requirement. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 09:11, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

::::::I'm still for the top however this discussion should not be taking place here. This needs to be moved to [[Talk:DnD Feats]]. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 23:06, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

== Me and D&D Wiki ==

As a reply for your welcome request:
* '''how much time you would like to spend working:''' Not much and this would be spelling/typo/layout. I am more a GURPS person and enclined to minimalism, that GURPS achieved better than D20. I am presently working on ''Lone Wolf'' RPG, which is D20. This explains that.
* '''how well you know the Wiki Format:''' fairly well, as I created most of the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Forgotten_Realms WikiProject Forgotten Realms] and the [http://towerofthesun.com/wiki/ TotSwiki]. I am not an expert, just an advance user. For instance, most of the template/macro is unknown to me.
* '''how well you know D&D:''' fairly well too. I played AD&D2 intensively for three years, I read a lot of AD&D2 and DD&D3 rulebooks. I hope to make things efficient by, for instance, avoid ''data fragmentation'' (pieces of data everywhere and one has to check several site ton understanf the whole of it) and to attain ''minimalism'' (for instance, by removing redundancy). Clean, elegant, geeky. Something that attracted me in GURPS, by the way.
Voilà! [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) 12:34, 18 March 2007 (MDT)

:Oh. Well, welcome again. If you want to help out, and have spare time, you could start with some cross referencing to the SRD and other places on D&D Wiki. Thats a job that always needs to get done (along with double redirects)... --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:06, 19 March 2007 (MDT)

== On Stacking—inherit/cascade ==
A question I'm considering is the one of stacking:
* For now, effects stack and to know an advanced feat’s power, one has to check the previous one too (BAD). On the other hand, a change in a previous feat immediately affect the higher one (GOOD). In geek-tongue, this is <code>inherit</code> or “cascading”.
* If effects of feats do not stack (instead of “master gives +3, stacks with acolyte”,“master gives +5 and do not stack with previous levels”), they we can see all capabilites of an über-feat at a glance (GOOD). But it also means that inheritance is broken, so if we change a lower feat, we have to manually change the higher ones (BAD)

I would tend to favour the present, first solution, but would like to know if you already considered this. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) 12:44, 18 March 2007 (MDT)

:Bring this up on [[Talk:DnD Feats]] as my talk page is not the place for the community to decide about this. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:07, 19 March 2007 (MDT)

== Code foresight ==

[[DnD Weapon Group Feats]] — <code>- style="vertical-align: top;"</code> is visible. {{Unsigned|David Latapie|12:36, 18 March 2007 (MST)}}

:Fixed. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 18:54, 19 March 2007 (MDT)

== Links for NBoF ==
Hi,

You may consider adding relevant links for NBoF articles, like for pre-requisites ([[Up_And_Down_(DnD_General_and_Fighter_Feat)|example]])). A great advantage of d20srd.org is the amount on cross-references. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) 13:36, 18 March 2007 (MDT)

:Adding wiki links is always a job that needs to be done — I will do them when I have time. However, on non-locked pages, you can add them all you want ''':)'''. I would say make links to the SRD on classes and continue onwards from that point — if you have spare time. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 18:58, 19 March 2007 (MDT)

::Ideally, recourse to massive transclusion would allow automatic linking (<nowiki>{{Improved Trip}}</nowiki>). See my post about the wiktionary. A bot is a possibility (but I don't know how to program this), a script that take every comma-separated value and wikify it is another one. Automation is seldom bad, but seldom easy too :/ [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) 08:21, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

:::Transclusion would not help much. However, a bot that automatically adds internal links would be great... Hm, something for Blue Dragon to work on. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 23:08, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

== MSRD Skills ==

I just went back to change all the MSRD skills from '''_____ (MSRD Skill)''' to '''MSRD:_____ (Skill)''' and noticed that you had already done it for me. Just wanted to say thanks! —[[User:EldritchNumen|EldritchNumen]] 17:20, 19 March 2007 (MDT)

:No problem, the entire MSRD now should be part of its own Namespace. I hope I helped. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 18:59, 19 March 2007 (MDT)

== References to other D20 systems ==

One of the beings i am entering, [[Alabastor (DnD Deity)]], has an ability from the WoT series. is it possible for me to make a page covering this ability, or is this site strictly D&D? (the ability in question is the madness from the male casters) ==[[User:Alabastor|Alabastor]] 08:14, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

:First off I would like to say that WoT is ''the best'' book series I have ever read with only major flaw — there will only be 12 main books. However, I think it would be okay to add the madness ability (which was fixed by Rand...) if you made it very D&D related. Also, just say you got your idea from the WoT and it should be okay... Disregard this message ''if'' there is a roleplaying game based on WoT because if that is the case then I will have to change my outlook on this. Also, please tell me if this is the case. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 18:30, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

::Oh yeah, thats not a problem. im just not sure what it is off the top of my head, but we did change it around a bit, like taking a feat to control it somewhat. Ill get the info and mention the source ==[[User:Alabastor|Alabastor]] 18:52, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

:::Okay, that should work. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:34, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

==Thanks for the Welcome==
Once I find my way around the site, I'll start helping out with contributions.  [[User:Hooper|''' Hooper ''']][[User talk:Hooper|  talk  ]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|  contribs  ]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|  email  ]] 20:13, 24 March 2007 (MDT)

:Sounds good. ''':)'''. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 00:49, 25 March 2007 (MDT)

== Thanks for the welcome ==

Thank you for the welcome. I'm fairly experienced with wiki formatting, but I'm an expert in most aspects of the d20 rules. That's why I made the comments that I did about the Gemini Dancer. The question I wanted to ask was about how do I display my re-writes for the person in charge of the page to review and evaluate. {{Unsigned|Pilitus|10:18, 6 April 2007 (MDT)}}

:No problem. As for the [[Gemini Dancer (DnD Class)|Gemini Dancer]] changes I would post what you want changed on [[Talk:Gemini Dancer (DnD Class)|Talk:Gemini Dancer]] and then change the actual class. This is okay to do for a couple reasons. One is that the author has not asked that his class be locked so it is expected that if something better is possible it should be implemented. Another reason it is okay is because once the author sees the changes he can revert them if he does not like them, and comment on them on the talk page. So, tell what changes you have made on the talk page, make the changes, and everything should be okay. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:44, 7 April 2007 (MDT)

== Hey Green dragon ==

Well First off I am not new to DnD, I started a few months after 3.5 came out, had a fling with 3.0 but preferred 3.5 So I have been playing Dungeons and Dragons for quite a few years now. I am into building my own custom classes. (I prefer a well made base class over building a PrC, except in games where powergaming is the key to survival). I am what you could call an optimizer, but I am not insane like the people on the Charecter Op boards.

I should be able to put in an hour or two a week, more in holidays less when homework and exams are due.

I have absolutely no experience with the Wiki format, so this is all new for me, and everytime I edit something I pray that I don't accidently delete someones message. But any way I think I answered all your questions. But basically my biggest issue is understanding the wiki format, doesn't look to complicated, just take me a while to get the gist of it I think
[[User:Linkrulesx10|Linkrulesx10]] 19:38, 7 April 2007 (MDT)

:Hello Linkrulesx10. Its good that you prefer and only use 3.5e because sometimes people that have played 3e and have converted themselves to 3.5e make messy creations that are a blend of 3e and 3.5e. Also, I look forward to your classes when you post them here even though classes are one of the most confusing things to get right in D&D Wiki's format. However, if you want to get to know the wiki format better, have nothing better to do, and want to help out a good cause, you could always help D&D Wiki. Below are a couple things that I think would teach you the wiki format quickly — starting from #1 being easy to the last being much harder.
:# '''Fix 5 or so double redirects —''' Go to [[Special:Doubleredirects]]. Next click on the small red edit by one of them. Then fix the redirect by making it link to the last choice on the same line. For example make [[Armor Construction Guide (DnD Equipment)]] link to [[Armor Construction Guide (DnD Guideline)]] '''not''' [[Armor Construction Guide (DnD Other)]]. What this is does is make a redirect not have to redirect the user twice and overall speeding up the loading time for users.
:# '''Rate 5 or so Classes —''' As you said above you like classes and I am sure this means you also understand them. So go to [[User Base Classes with Descriptions]] and click on a class that has "NR (Not Rated)" in its balance column. Read through the class and make sure to understand it. Next, on the very top of the page, click the "''here''" in "''Please, help D&D Wiki by rating the balance of this item here.''" Make sure to follow the [[Balance System]] when determining what balance to give the class and make sure to follow the [[DnD Balance Formatting Template]] when formatting your rating.
:# '''Look through the "Transformational Variant Rules" —''' Recently [[DnD Rules]] has been switched from one kind of rule — variant, to two kinds — Transformational Variant Rules and Supplemental Variant Rules however this switch is not done. So, it would be a great help if you could help it along. So, go to [[DnD Rules]]. Next click on any Transformational Variant Rule. Look it over and come to understand it. When you have understood it decide if it is a Supplemental Variant Rule or a Transformational Variant Rule. If it is a Supplemental Variant Rule edit the page and add <nowiki>[[Category:Supplemental Variant Rule]]</nowiki> on the very bottom. If it is a Transformational Variant Rule edit the page and on the very bottom add <nowiki>[[Category:Transformational Variant Rule]]</nowiki>. After these categories have been added [[DnD Rules]] will automatically change the collumn of the rule — if it changed at all. Doing this would help D&D Wiki a great deal.
:# '''Look at the To-Do list —''' Take a glance over at the [[To-Do List]] and see if anything their interests you.
:I hope this helps you to understand wiki formatting better. Also what I gave above are only a few options of what needs to get done on D&D Wiki. If you want more please tell me and I will be more than happy to add more things to the above list. Thanks, and I hope you like D&D Wiki. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 11:03, 8 April 2007 (MDT)

== Management of the Druid provisional class discussion ==

Hi Green Dragon,

Congratulations for the amount of work you done. I think you did not know about the ''/'' operator and that was my contribution to the task, but your work is really impressive, I would not have had courage to do all this—and you did it very well.

This is a pleasure to work with you :-) [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 18:46, 9 April 2007 (MDT)

:It is a pleasure to work with you as well — you have helped make the formatting of base classes a lot better already. Also, I improved [[Talk:Druid (Evaluational Base Class Layout)]] once more, I hope it is even easier to understand. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 10:19, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

::Thank you for your kind words. Yes, the new layout is even better! May I suggest something? Create <code>.done {opacity:.6;text-decoration:line-through}</code> and apply it to the relevant <code>tr</code> (if it doesn't work, use <code>tr.done *</code> or <code>th.done, td.done</code>) [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 11:59, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

:::I changed it. Is the current method more like what you proposed? I am asking because I changed it a little bit (no strikethrough). --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:54, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

== Mediawiki collaboration ==

Green Dragon, I plan to set up a MediaWiki soon and, if the need arises, I am completely confident in your ability to solve my problem, should I have to ask (I will try not to, as you surely are as busy as I am, if not more).

Great teamwork. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 13:15, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

:Just curious, what kind of wiki are you setting up? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:16, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

::An English photowiki about the Streets of Paris. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 13:18, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

:::I would be more than happy to help, however I don't really know much about the subject... Do you have a site yet? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:20, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

::::Not yet, not yet. I yet have to download MediaWikie (five hours ago, I was still thinking of a blog). I will not have any problem with the topic, only, maybe, some with the technical part. I'll let you know. It warms my heart to know I could count on you if necessary. Keep well. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 13:37, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

Hi,
I'm installing MediaWiki 1.9.3 on my server. Any option you would like to comment on (before it is too late)? Of particular importance is the choice between <code>Experimental MySQL 4.1/5.0 UTF-8</code> and <code>Experimental MySQL 4.1/5.0 Binary</code> (I’d go for the first one, but what is the second one?) [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 02:00, 11 April 2007 (MDT)

How can I give rights to someone else? [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 02:31, 11 April 2007 (MDT)

User talk:Green Dragon

2007-04-11T08:03:12Z

David Latapie: /* Mediawiki collaboration */

{{Messages of Interest|messages=
{{MoI-Row
|page=Talk:Main Page
|section=Proposed Color Scheme #3.1
|notifier=EldritchNumen
|date_time=15:16, 28 February 2007 (MST)
}}

}}

{{Archives
|label1= Archive 1 (Discussions 1 – 30)
|label2= Archive 2 (Discussions 31 – 60)
|label3= Archive 3 (Discussions 61 – 90)
|label4= Archive 4 (Discussions 91 – 120)
}}

== RE: Divine Evoker ==

dont worry, i just dont have alot of time on a computer. The class is finished now. {{Unsigned|Alabastor|08:21, 23 February 2007 (MST)}}

:It's fine, as long as you got it done. Thanks for adding it. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:25, 24 February 2007 (MST)

== WikiWorld ==

Is anyone interested in collaborating to work on Wiki World? --[[User:Kamin|Kamin]] 18:04, 24 February 2007 (MST)

:I would contact [[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]]. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:53, 25 February 2007 (MST)

== Question on Policy ==

Hey. I just nominated myself for adminship ([[Requests for Adminship/EldritchNumen]]). What is the policy on advertising? I know, above all, that I should not do any myself. Should it be put on the main page in news? I'm curious because I'm afraid that few people will notice it in recent changes and there will be no voting or discussion... I defer whatever decisions are to be made (if any) to you. I just want to make sure that people know I applied so they can discuss the merit of accepting or rejecting me. Thanks! —[[User:EldritchNumen|EldritchNumen]] 16:33, 25 February 2007 (MST)

:News is the place, I will add it. Thanks for bringing this up before doing it yourself. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 17:23, 25 February 2007 (MST)

== Still alive ==

Alive if you wanted to know. --[[User:Pz.Az.04Maus|Pz.Az.04Maus]] 02:34, 26 February 2007 (MST)

:Thats good. If you want to help out with something let me know, seeing that I have not seen you make edits in a while. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:31, 26 February 2007 (MST)

== Proposed Color Scheme Page ==

Hey. I made the page for the [[Proposed Color Scheme]]. All that needs to be done is a link to this page (Proposed Color Scheme) needs to be added to the News on the main page. The caption could be "DnD Wiki is undergoing a search for a new color scheme. Vote [[Proposed Color Scheme|here]] and tell us what you think!". Feel free to change the proposed color page as it seems best to you. —[[User:EldritchNumen|EldritchNumen]] 01:06, 1 March 2007 (MST)

:Done. Thanks for making that page. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 15:19, 1 March 2007 (MST)

== Wikify? ==

Well, I haven't been on here in a while, and I was looking through the site today, and saw that both articles I've posted need to be 'Wikified'. Problem is, I really don't have a clue what that means. Could you possibly explain so I can fix that problem? [[User:Maverick Wolf|Maverick Wolf]] 10:04, 1 March 2007 (EST)

:To Wikify is a term that means that something needs to be made correctly formatted. So, your class is not formatted correctly, and it needs to be. Formatted correctly refers to the [[DnD Class Preload]] which includes a class="d20" table, bolded abilities, and more. I can wikify your pages if you want, would you like me to? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 14:58, 1 March 2007 (MST)

== Chat ==

i've posted a comment on the discussion panel about the "static field, created by Donnavin Snowolf". could you give your opinion on that?

thanks {{Unsigned|Lucccfilho|00:45, 5 March 2007 (MST)}}

:Yes. I will right now. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:33, 5 March 2007 (MST)

::Do you have msn, ggtalk? --[[User:Luccfilho|Luccfilho]] 23:27, 6 March 2007 (MST)

:::I have gmail (which I rarely stay on for more time than it takes to answer my emails). My email at gmail it great.wyrm.green.dragon@gmail.com and if you catch me on gmail I should be avaible to chat. Why? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 08:54, 7 March 2007 (MST)

== Thanks! ==

Heh, one day into being back to this wiki and you've already helped me out a lot. Thanks much; I thought I mighta missed signing on one of the places I rated, but I didn't have time to check where. The MoI think is handy too.

On a different note, I recently noticed that [[Web]] redirected to [[Web (SRD Spell)]], which redirected to [[SRD: Web (Spell)]]. However, Web itself only redirected once, to Web (SRD), and then the redirect code on Web (SRD) didn't kick in, leaving me on a redirect page. I've changed Web to go directly to SRD: Web, but I was wondering if this was something you should know. [[User:Armond|Armond]] 11:58, 7 March 2007 (MST)

:No problem with the help - I don't mind at all. Also, the things you are talking about are called "Double Redirects" and all of them can be found on the [[Special:Double Redirects|Double redirects]] page. If you have some spare time these double redirects need to be fixed - just like you did with the redirect to [[SRD: Web (Spell)]]. If you don't have any spare time someone else will get around to them as it is not vital they get fixed that soon. Thanks. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 15:28, 7 March 2007 (MST)

::Agh, double redirects, the plague of every wiki. Will get on it when I have time. [[User:Armond|Armond]] 10:48, 8 March 2007 (MST)

:::Pages for deletion due to typos in the name: [[Initiate of Humillity(DnD Exalted Feat)]], [[Royal Cathnakari brestplate (DnD Equipment)]], [[Royal Cathnakari breastplate (DnD Equipment)]], and more to come... Mind if I just keep adding them here? [[User:Armond|Armond]] 10:56, 8 March 2007 (MST)

::::The place to add them is [[Candidates for Deletion]]. If you add them there then you won't clutter up Green Dragon's user page, which he might appreciate! ''':)''' (I tease, of course). I'll delete those three for you, but go ahead and add ones in the future to [[Candidates for Deletion]].
::::'''Addendum:''' please make sure that no other pages link to the page in question before you nominate it for deletion. You can check this using "What links here" in the toolbox on the left. —[[User:EldritchNumen|EldritchNumen]] 11:42, 8 March 2007 (MST)

:::::Where I come from that's the admin's job >.> But ok. I couldn't find a Template:Delete, which is what I'm used to, so I put them here. Thanks for your help. (Friendly people on this wiki.) [[User:156.1.60.60|156.1.60.60]] 12:01, 8 March 2007 (MST) <-- [[User:Armond|Armond]]'s school's IP address (what I get for not logging in again...)

::::::A deletion candidate template sounds like a good idea. Would you mind throwing one together? —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 12:13, 8 March 2007 (MST)

:::::::With a table it may be a good idea to switch [[Candidates for Deletion]] into a dlpc enviroment... What do you guys think? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:09, 9 March 2007 (MST)

== I'm trokking and i messed up my stats ==

:''Moved to [[User talk:EldritchNumen#I'm trokking and i messed up my stats]]''.

== Thanks for the PM ==

Yeah I'm new thank you for the Pm...Somthing I would like to ask though, could a bit more attention be paid to the anti-paladin (this is the one I was trying to help on) and other obscure classes. I am aware that at this moment Rakankou is working on it but I belive it was created never looked at. This makes me wonder what other classes,Items, and spells have been overlooked or given Mis-information. With that out of the way I shall be adding some more Prestige and regular classes to the SRD section Some that I'm sure are in books people have either not purchased yet or just overlooked.
[[User:Da Hoopindexter|Da Hoopindexter]] 20:51, 7 March 2007 (MST)

:No problem with the PM. Also, their are quite a lot of "overlooked" classes - they are normally distinquishable by their low balance ratings. If you want to help out a class just find one with a low balance rating and read over the rating - figuring out what needs to be changed. Make some changes and I am sure it will be re-rated with your changes in mind. Look over the new rating and consider again, all the while while conversing with the person that is rating the certain class. This is the easiest way to help out classes. Also, are you planning on adding [[OGL]] content? I am asking because not all published material by Wizards of the Coast is [[OGL]]. Before posting anything that is not homebrew make sure that it is [[OGL]] for then it is okay to post. Thanks. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 21:45, 7 March 2007 (MST)

::I am aware that quite a few things have been published with the [[OGL]]. I am talking about material from Stormwrack, Draconomicon, and a few others. --[[User:Da Hoopindexter|Da Hoopindexter]] 05:12, 8 March 2007 (MST)

:::Actually, almost all of that material is '''NOT''' OGL material. Check the inside front of the books (on the page with the copyright information). If it reads, "None of the content in this book is Open Game Content" then you can't add anything. I think stormwrack and the draconomicon both fit into that category... sorry. —[[User:EldritchNumen|EldritchNumen]] 06:09, 8 March 2007 (MST)

::::ok I see now thank you for Clearing things up...[[User:Da Hoopindexter|Da Hoopindexter]] 14:49, 8 March 2007 (MST)

:::::Normally its a better idea to use [[D&D Wiki:Items to be added]] if you want to help with adding content. Give [[D&D Wiki:Items to be added]] a try; see if you like it. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:02, 9 March 2007 (MST)

== Link Creation ==

while i am quick to adapt to the format of the tables and what not, i still am not abke to figure out how to place a link on a page (mostly for my user page) ==[[User:Alabastor|Alabastor]] 07:20, 8 March 2007 (MST)==

:Place brackets (on a qwerty keyboard, next to the p) around the name of the page you want to link to. For example, <nowiki>[[Main Page]]</nowiki> will link to the main page; <nowiki>[[User:Alabastor]]</nowiki> will link to your user page. (Be sure to check that you have the page namespaces, such as the User:, in the link or it won't work properly.) You can also give a link a caption, of sorts, by placing a "pipe line" (right above the enter key on a qwerty, use the shift key) between the name of the page you're linking to and what you want to call it. So, for example, <nowiki>[[User:Alabastor|Visit my page!]]</nowiki> will show up as [[User:Alabastor|Visit my page!]] [[User:Armond|Armond]] 10:47, 8 March 2007 (MST)

::thank you ==[[User:Alabastor|Alabastor]] 06:37, 9 March 2007 (MST)==

:::It should be noted that this will only work with links that link to something on this site - there is a different method for external links. If you are not 100% sure about basic formatting a good place to look is [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Editing WP:Help:Editing]. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:07, 9 March 2007 (MST)

== Invitation for alpha testing ==

Hey there. If you have time on your hands, I'd like to ask you to take a look at [[User:Armond/Deadly Assassin (DnD Prestige Class)]] for balance. There are a few things I'm concerned about, which I've listed at the very top of the page's coding in comment brackets. I feel it's only fair to warn you, however, that I've introduced a couple new game mechanics in that class, so it will likely take you a while to read and understand it all - but if you have the time and are willing, I'd really appreciate your input. If not, no worries, but if you know someone else who might be willing to help me find the bugs, I'd appreciate it if you'd let them know. Again, if you can't you can't, and I appreciate the thought all the same. Thanks! [[User:Armond|Armond]] 00:41, 13 March 2007 (MDT)

== Rokahnar (DnD Campaign Setting) ==

:''Moved to [[Talk:Rokahnar (DnD Campaign Setting)#Updates]]''.

== Locked double redirects ==

If you would...

*<s>[[Vulnerability to Energy (SRD Creature Ability)]] to [[SRD:Vulnerability to Energy (Special Ability)]]</s>
*<s>[[Gaze (SRD Creature Ability)]] to [[SRD:Gaze (Special Ability)]]</s>
*<s>[[Telepathy (SRD Creature Ability)]] to [[SRD:Telepathy (Special Ability)]]</s>
*<s>[[Spells (SRD Creature Ability)]] to [[SRD:Spells (Special Ability)]]</s>
*<s>[[Spell Resistance (SRD Creature Ability)]] to [[SRD:Spell Resistance and Spell Immunity (Special Ability)]]</s>
*<s>[[Special Abilities (SRD Creature Ability)]] to [[SRD:Special Abilities Overview (Rules)]]</s>

Will post more unless you protest :P [[User:Armond|Armond]] 12:37, 13 March 2007 (MDT)

:I just fixed those. Also, you can either post the locked double redirects here (if their are not too many) or I can look at [[Special:DoubleRedirects]] and fix them if their are a lot of locked ones. Your call. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 18:15, 13 March 2007 (MDT)

::Thanks bunches. There's still over 500 double redirects, though, and those are the only three I've found so far out of the 100 or so I've done. If I find a bunch of locked ones I'll leave them alone and let you know (I go at them from the back of the list to the front, so they'll all be left at the back). Again, thanks. As a friend of mine once said, mod powers indeed rule. [[User:Armond|Armond]] 22:32, 13 March 2007 (MDT)

:::Okay, I will work on them as time permits. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:39, 13 March 2007 (MDT)

== Proposal for a new entry at preload ==

Hello,

As you can see at [[Acolyte of Compassion (DnD_Exalted_Feat)|Acolyte of Compassion]], I manually added an entry, '''Pre-requisite for:'''. I humbly suggest you to add it to pre-load, with a value of ''none'' when a feat has no relation.

Have a nice day. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) 11:27, 18 March 2007 (MDT)

:Before I add that I have a simple question. Does the "'''Pre-requisite for:'''" look better on the top (where I just added it) or on the bottom (where you had it)? Once we figure that out I will be more than happy to change the pre-load template. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:14, 18 March 2007 (MDT)

::Hello Green Dragon and thank you for your warm welcome! Since both '''Requirements''' and '''Pre-requisite for:''' are semantically connected, I would either:
::* put '''requirements''' at the beginning and '''Pre-requisite for:''' at the end (chronological order, sort of) or
::* put them on the same line, with '''requirements''' on the left and '''Pre-requisite for:''' on the right. In this case, they would be on the top. As an additionnal advantage, they could both be in the same container (<code>div</code>), which I think would make them easier to manage. My preference goes for this one (which also take into consideration your proposal) but this is something I prefer not to do myself, as it requires deep change in the layout, something I don't think I have the credentials to do.
::Hope this helps. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) 12:26, 18 March 2007 (MDT)

:::Hm... Currently WotC does not have a section for "'''Pre-requisite for:'''" so I do not think it should part of the feats main area. I think above or below the feats header may be the best choice. Currently I changed [[Acolyte of Compassion (DnD Exalted Feat)|Acolyte of Compassion]] so it is above the header, does this look better or worse than above the "Back to" footer? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 18:53, 19 March 2007 (MDT)
::::I understand you want to stick with WotC formatting (or at least show the difference between regular formating and our additions. That being said, their formatting sucks (a particularly obvious example is ''Weapon Supremacy'' in PHII. I created a new template to better illustrate what I was thinking about, but the limitations of D&dDwiki do not allow me to display it accurately (you would have to change the settings to make it work). 
<nowiki><div></nowiki>
<nowiki>Requisites:</nowiki>
<nowiki>Prerequisites for:</nowiki>
<nowiki></div></nowiki>
<nowiki><div style="clear:both"></div></nowiki>
<nowiki>Lorem ipsum dolor</nowiki>
::::I do not know you level of HTML understanding. Tell me if you do not understand this code. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) 07:18, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

:::::I'd say add it at the bottom, because unlike the rest of the feat information, it's subject to change based on user-submitted feats. Every time a feat is added that uses the first one as a prereq, the first feat's page has to be changed to add the new feat to the list. Also, if this is added, I say add a '''Required For''' section for PrCs that have the feat as a requirement. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 09:11, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

::::::I'm still for the top however this discussion should not be taking place here. This needs to be moved to [[Talk:DnD Feats]]. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 23:06, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

== Me and D&D Wiki ==

As a reply for your welcome request:
* '''how much time you would like to spend working:''' Not much and this would be spelling/typo/layout. I am more a GURPS person and enclined to minimalism, that GURPS achieved better than D20. I am presently working on ''Lone Wolf'' RPG, which is D20. This explains that.
* '''how well you know the Wiki Format:''' fairly well, as I created most of the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Forgotten_Realms WikiProject Forgotten Realms] and the [http://towerofthesun.com/wiki/ TotSwiki]. I am not an expert, just an advance user. For instance, most of the template/macro is unknown to me.
* '''how well you know D&D:''' fairly well too. I played AD&D2 intensively for three years, I read a lot of AD&D2 and DD&D3 rulebooks. I hope to make things efficient by, for instance, avoid ''data fragmentation'' (pieces of data everywhere and one has to check several site ton understanf the whole of it) and to attain ''minimalism'' (for instance, by removing redundancy). Clean, elegant, geeky. Something that attracted me in GURPS, by the way.
Voilà! [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) 12:34, 18 March 2007 (MDT)

:Oh. Well, welcome again. If you want to help out, and have spare time, you could start with some cross referencing to the SRD and other places on D&D Wiki. Thats a job that always needs to get done (along with double redirects)... --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:06, 19 March 2007 (MDT)

== On Stacking—inherit/cascade ==
A question I'm considering is the one of stacking:
* For now, effects stack and to know an advanced feat’s power, one has to check the previous one too (BAD). On the other hand, a change in a previous feat immediately affect the higher one (GOOD). In geek-tongue, this is <code>inherit</code> or “cascading”.
* If effects of feats do not stack (instead of “master gives +3, stacks with acolyte”,“master gives +5 and do not stack with previous levels”), they we can see all capabilites of an über-feat at a glance (GOOD). But it also means that inheritance is broken, so if we change a lower feat, we have to manually change the higher ones (BAD)

I would tend to favour the present, first solution, but would like to know if you already considered this. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) 12:44, 18 March 2007 (MDT)

:Bring this up on [[Talk:DnD Feats]] as my talk page is not the place for the community to decide about this. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:07, 19 March 2007 (MDT)

== Code foresight ==

[[DnD Weapon Group Feats]] — <code>- style="vertical-align: top;"</code> is visible. {{Unsigned|David Latapie|12:36, 18 March 2007 (MST)}}

:Fixed. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 18:54, 19 March 2007 (MDT)

== Links for NBoF ==
Hi,

You may consider adding relevant links for NBoF articles, like for pre-requisites ([[Up_And_Down_(DnD_General_and_Fighter_Feat)|example]])). A great advantage of d20srd.org is the amount on cross-references. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) 13:36, 18 March 2007 (MDT)

:Adding wiki links is always a job that needs to be done — I will do them when I have time. However, on non-locked pages, you can add them all you want ''':)'''. I would say make links to the SRD on classes and continue onwards from that point — if you have spare time. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 18:58, 19 March 2007 (MDT)

::Ideally, recourse to massive transclusion would allow automatic linking (<nowiki>{{Improved Trip}}</nowiki>). See my post about the wiktionary. A bot is a possibility (but I don't know how to program this), a script that take every comma-separated value and wikify it is another one. Automation is seldom bad, but seldom easy too :/ [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) 08:21, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

:::Transclusion would not help much. However, a bot that automatically adds internal links would be great... Hm, something for Blue Dragon to work on. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 23:08, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

== MSRD Skills ==

I just went back to change all the MSRD skills from '''_____ (MSRD Skill)''' to '''MSRD:_____ (Skill)''' and noticed that you had already done it for me. Just wanted to say thanks! —[[User:EldritchNumen|EldritchNumen]] 17:20, 19 March 2007 (MDT)

:No problem, the entire MSRD now should be part of its own Namespace. I hope I helped. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 18:59, 19 March 2007 (MDT)

== References to other D20 systems ==

One of the beings i am entering, [[Alabastor (DnD Deity)]], has an ability from the WoT series. is it possible for me to make a page covering this ability, or is this site strictly D&D? (the ability in question is the madness from the male casters) ==[[User:Alabastor|Alabastor]] 08:14, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

:First off I would like to say that WoT is ''the best'' book series I have ever read with only major flaw — there will only be 12 main books. However, I think it would be okay to add the madness ability (which was fixed by Rand...) if you made it very D&D related. Also, just say you got your idea from the WoT and it should be okay... Disregard this message ''if'' there is a roleplaying game based on WoT because if that is the case then I will have to change my outlook on this. Also, please tell me if this is the case. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 18:30, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

::Oh yeah, thats not a problem. im just not sure what it is off the top of my head, but we did change it around a bit, like taking a feat to control it somewhat. Ill get the info and mention the source ==[[User:Alabastor|Alabastor]] 18:52, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

:::Okay, that should work. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:34, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

==Thanks for the Welcome==
Once I find my way around the site, I'll start helping out with contributions.  [[User:Hooper|''' Hooper ''']][[User talk:Hooper|  talk  ]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|  contribs  ]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|  email  ]] 20:13, 24 March 2007 (MDT)

:Sounds good. ''':)'''. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 00:49, 25 March 2007 (MDT)

== Thanks for the welcome ==

Thank you for the welcome. I'm fairly experienced with wiki formatting, but I'm an expert in most aspects of the d20 rules. That's why I made the comments that I did about the Gemini Dancer. The question I wanted to ask was about how do I display my re-writes for the person in charge of the page to review and evaluate. {{Unsigned|Pilitus|10:18, 6 April 2007 (MDT)}}

:No problem. As for the [[Gemini Dancer (DnD Class)|Gemini Dancer]] changes I would post what you want changed on [[Talk:Gemini Dancer (DnD Class)|Talk:Gemini Dancer]] and then change the actual class. This is okay to do for a couple reasons. One is that the author has not asked that his class be locked so it is expected that if something better is possible it should be implemented. Another reason it is okay is because once the author sees the changes he can revert them if he does not like them, and comment on them on the talk page. So, tell what changes you have made on the talk page, make the changes, and everything should be okay. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:44, 7 April 2007 (MDT)

== Hey Green dragon ==

Well First off I am not new to DnD, I started a few months after 3.5 came out, had a fling with 3.0 but preferred 3.5 So I have been playing Dungeons and Dragons for quite a few years now. I am into building my own custom classes. (I prefer a well made base class over building a PrC, except in games where powergaming is the key to survival). I am what you could call an optimizer, but I am not insane like the people on the Charecter Op boards.

I should be able to put in an hour or two a week, more in holidays less when homework and exams are due.

I have absolutely no experience with the Wiki format, so this is all new for me, and everytime I edit something I pray that I don't accidently delete someones message. But any way I think I answered all your questions. But basically my biggest issue is understanding the wiki format, doesn't look to complicated, just take me a while to get the gist of it I think
[[User:Linkrulesx10|Linkrulesx10]] 19:38, 7 April 2007 (MDT)

:Hello Linkrulesx10. Its good that you prefer and only use 3.5e because sometimes people that have played 3e and have converted themselves to 3.5e make messy creations that are a blend of 3e and 3.5e. Also, I look forward to your classes when you post them here even though classes are one of the most confusing things to get right in D&D Wiki's format. However, if you want to get to know the wiki format better, have nothing better to do, and want to help out a good cause, you could always help D&D Wiki. Below are a couple things that I think would teach you the wiki format quickly — starting from #1 being easy to the last being much harder.
:# '''Fix 5 or so double redirects —''' Go to [[Special:Doubleredirects]]. Next click on the small red edit by one of them. Then fix the redirect by making it link to the last choice on the same line. For example make [[Armor Construction Guide (DnD Equipment)]] link to [[Armor Construction Guide (DnD Guideline)]] '''not''' [[Armor Construction Guide (DnD Other)]]. What this is does is make a redirect not have to redirect the user twice and overall speeding up the loading time for users.
:# '''Rate 5 or so Classes —''' As you said above you like classes and I am sure this means you also understand them. So go to [[User Base Classes with Descriptions]] and click on a class that has "NR (Not Rated)" in its balance column. Read through the class and make sure to understand it. Next, on the very top of the page, click the "''here''" in "''Please, help D&D Wiki by rating the balance of this item here.''" Make sure to follow the [[Balance System]] when determining what balance to give the class and make sure to follow the [[DnD Balance Formatting Template]] when formatting your rating.
:# '''Look through the "Transformational Variant Rules" —''' Recently [[DnD Rules]] has been switched from one kind of rule — variant, to two kinds — Transformational Variant Rules and Supplemental Variant Rules however this switch is not done. So, it would be a great help if you could help it along. So, go to [[DnD Rules]]. Next click on any Transformational Variant Rule. Look it over and come to understand it. When you have understood it decide if it is a Supplemental Variant Rule or a Transformational Variant Rule. If it is a Supplemental Variant Rule edit the page and add <nowiki>[[Category:Supplemental Variant Rule]]</nowiki> on the very bottom. If it is a Transformational Variant Rule edit the page and on the very bottom add <nowiki>[[Category:Transformational Variant Rule]]</nowiki>. After these categories have been added [[DnD Rules]] will automatically change the collumn of the rule — if it changed at all. Doing this would help D&D Wiki a great deal.
:# '''Look at the To-Do list —''' Take a glance over at the [[To-Do List]] and see if anything their interests you.
:I hope this helps you to understand wiki formatting better. Also what I gave above are only a few options of what needs to get done on D&D Wiki. If you want more please tell me and I will be more than happy to add more things to the above list. Thanks, and I hope you like D&D Wiki. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 11:03, 8 April 2007 (MDT)

== Management of the Druid provisional class discussion ==

Hi Green Dragon,

Congratulations for the amount of work you done. I think you did not know about the ''/'' operator and that was my contribution to the task, but your work is really impressive, I would not have had courage to do all this—and you did it very well.

This is a pleasure to work with you :-) [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 18:46, 9 April 2007 (MDT)

:It is a pleasure to work with you as well — you have helped make the formatting of base classes a lot better already. Also, I improved [[Talk:Druid (Evaluational Base Class Layout)]] once more, I hope it is even easier to understand. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 10:19, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

::Thank you for your kind words. Yes, the new layout is even better! May I suggest something? Create <code>.done {opacity:.6;text-decoration:line-through}</code> and apply it to the relevant <code>tr</code> (if it doesn't work, use <code>tr.done *</code> or <code>th.done, td.done</code>) [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 11:59, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

:::I changed it. Is the current method more like what you proposed? I am asking because I changed it a little bit (no strikethrough). --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:54, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

== Mediawiki collaboration ==

Green Dragon, I plan to set up a MediaWiki soon and, if the need arises, I am completely confident in your ability to solve my problem, should I have to ask (I will try not to, as you surely are as busy as I am, if not more).

Great teamwork. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 13:15, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

:Just curious, what kind of wiki are you setting up? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:16, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

::An English photowiki about the Streets of Paris. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 13:18, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

:::I would be more than happy to help, however I don't really know much about the subject... Do you have a site yet? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:20, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

::::Not yet, not yet. I yet have to download MediaWikie (five hours ago, I was still thinking of a blog). I will not have any problem with the topic, only, maybe, some with the technical part. I'll let you know. It warms my heart to know I could count on you if necessary. Keep well. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 13:37, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

Hi,
I'm installing MediaWiki 1.9.3 on my server. Any option you would like to comment on (before it is too late)? Of particular importance is the choice between <code>Experimental MySQL 4.1/5.0 UTF-8</code> and <code>Experimental MySQL 4.1/5.0 Binary</code> (I’d go for the first one, but what is the second one?) [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 02:00, 11 April 2007 (MDT)

User talk:Green Dragon

2007-04-11T08:00:26Z

David Latapie: /* Mediawiki collaboration */

{{Messages of Interest|messages=
{{MoI-Row
|page=Talk:Main Page
|section=Proposed Color Scheme #3.1
|notifier=EldritchNumen
|date_time=15:16, 28 February 2007 (MST)
}}

}}

{{Archives
|label1= Archive 1 (Discussions 1 – 30)
|label2= Archive 2 (Discussions 31 – 60)
|label3= Archive 3 (Discussions 61 – 90)
|label4= Archive 4 (Discussions 91 – 120)
}}

== RE: Divine Evoker ==

dont worry, i just dont have alot of time on a computer. The class is finished now. {{Unsigned|Alabastor|08:21, 23 February 2007 (MST)}}

:It's fine, as long as you got it done. Thanks for adding it. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:25, 24 February 2007 (MST)

== WikiWorld ==

Is anyone interested in collaborating to work on Wiki World? --[[User:Kamin|Kamin]] 18:04, 24 February 2007 (MST)

:I would contact [[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]]. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:53, 25 February 2007 (MST)

== Question on Policy ==

Hey. I just nominated myself for adminship ([[Requests for Adminship/EldritchNumen]]). What is the policy on advertising? I know, above all, that I should not do any myself. Should it be put on the main page in news? I'm curious because I'm afraid that few people will notice it in recent changes and there will be no voting or discussion... I defer whatever decisions are to be made (if any) to you. I just want to make sure that people know I applied so they can discuss the merit of accepting or rejecting me. Thanks! —[[User:EldritchNumen|EldritchNumen]] 16:33, 25 February 2007 (MST)

:News is the place, I will add it. Thanks for bringing this up before doing it yourself. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 17:23, 25 February 2007 (MST)

== Still alive ==

Alive if you wanted to know. --[[User:Pz.Az.04Maus|Pz.Az.04Maus]] 02:34, 26 February 2007 (MST)

:Thats good. If you want to help out with something let me know, seeing that I have not seen you make edits in a while. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:31, 26 February 2007 (MST)

== Proposed Color Scheme Page ==

Hey. I made the page for the [[Proposed Color Scheme]]. All that needs to be done is a link to this page (Proposed Color Scheme) needs to be added to the News on the main page. The caption could be "DnD Wiki is undergoing a search for a new color scheme. Vote [[Proposed Color Scheme|here]] and tell us what you think!". Feel free to change the proposed color page as it seems best to you. —[[User:EldritchNumen|EldritchNumen]] 01:06, 1 March 2007 (MST)

:Done. Thanks for making that page. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 15:19, 1 March 2007 (MST)

== Wikify? ==

Well, I haven't been on here in a while, and I was looking through the site today, and saw that both articles I've posted need to be 'Wikified'. Problem is, I really don't have a clue what that means. Could you possibly explain so I can fix that problem? [[User:Maverick Wolf|Maverick Wolf]] 10:04, 1 March 2007 (EST)

:To Wikify is a term that means that something needs to be made correctly formatted. So, your class is not formatted correctly, and it needs to be. Formatted correctly refers to the [[DnD Class Preload]] which includes a class="d20" table, bolded abilities, and more. I can wikify your pages if you want, would you like me to? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 14:58, 1 March 2007 (MST)

== Chat ==

i've posted a comment on the discussion panel about the "static field, created by Donnavin Snowolf". could you give your opinion on that?

thanks {{Unsigned|Lucccfilho|00:45, 5 March 2007 (MST)}}

:Yes. I will right now. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:33, 5 March 2007 (MST)

::Do you have msn, ggtalk? --[[User:Luccfilho|Luccfilho]] 23:27, 6 March 2007 (MST)

:::I have gmail (which I rarely stay on for more time than it takes to answer my emails). My email at gmail it great.wyrm.green.dragon@gmail.com and if you catch me on gmail I should be avaible to chat. Why? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 08:54, 7 March 2007 (MST)

== Thanks! ==

Heh, one day into being back to this wiki and you've already helped me out a lot. Thanks much; I thought I mighta missed signing on one of the places I rated, but I didn't have time to check where. The MoI think is handy too.

On a different note, I recently noticed that [[Web]] redirected to [[Web (SRD Spell)]], which redirected to [[SRD: Web (Spell)]]. However, Web itself only redirected once, to Web (SRD), and then the redirect code on Web (SRD) didn't kick in, leaving me on a redirect page. I've changed Web to go directly to SRD: Web, but I was wondering if this was something you should know. [[User:Armond|Armond]] 11:58, 7 March 2007 (MST)

:No problem with the help - I don't mind at all. Also, the things you are talking about are called "Double Redirects" and all of them can be found on the [[Special:Double Redirects|Double redirects]] page. If you have some spare time these double redirects need to be fixed - just like you did with the redirect to [[SRD: Web (Spell)]]. If you don't have any spare time someone else will get around to them as it is not vital they get fixed that soon. Thanks. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 15:28, 7 March 2007 (MST)

::Agh, double redirects, the plague of every wiki. Will get on it when I have time. [[User:Armond|Armond]] 10:48, 8 March 2007 (MST)

:::Pages for deletion due to typos in the name: [[Initiate of Humillity(DnD Exalted Feat)]], [[Royal Cathnakari brestplate (DnD Equipment)]], [[Royal Cathnakari breastplate (DnD Equipment)]], and more to come... Mind if I just keep adding them here? [[User:Armond|Armond]] 10:56, 8 March 2007 (MST)

::::The place to add them is [[Candidates for Deletion]]. If you add them there then you won't clutter up Green Dragon's user page, which he might appreciate! ''':)''' (I tease, of course). I'll delete those three for you, but go ahead and add ones in the future to [[Candidates for Deletion]].
::::'''Addendum:''' please make sure that no other pages link to the page in question before you nominate it for deletion. You can check this using "What links here" in the toolbox on the left. —[[User:EldritchNumen|EldritchNumen]] 11:42, 8 March 2007 (MST)

:::::Where I come from that's the admin's job >.> But ok. I couldn't find a Template:Delete, which is what I'm used to, so I put them here. Thanks for your help. (Friendly people on this wiki.) [[User:156.1.60.60|156.1.60.60]] 12:01, 8 March 2007 (MST) <-- [[User:Armond|Armond]]'s school's IP address (what I get for not logging in again...)

::::::A deletion candidate template sounds like a good idea. Would you mind throwing one together? —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 12:13, 8 March 2007 (MST)

:::::::With a table it may be a good idea to switch [[Candidates for Deletion]] into a dlpc enviroment... What do you guys think? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:09, 9 March 2007 (MST)

== I'm trokking and i messed up my stats ==

:''Moved to [[User talk:EldritchNumen#I'm trokking and i messed up my stats]]''.

== Thanks for the PM ==

Yeah I'm new thank you for the Pm...Somthing I would like to ask though, could a bit more attention be paid to the anti-paladin (this is the one I was trying to help on) and other obscure classes. I am aware that at this moment Rakankou is working on it but I belive it was created never looked at. This makes me wonder what other classes,Items, and spells have been overlooked or given Mis-information. With that out of the way I shall be adding some more Prestige and regular classes to the SRD section Some that I'm sure are in books people have either not purchased yet or just overlooked.
[[User:Da Hoopindexter|Da Hoopindexter]] 20:51, 7 March 2007 (MST)

:No problem with the PM. Also, their are quite a lot of "overlooked" classes - they are normally distinquishable by their low balance ratings. If you want to help out a class just find one with a low balance rating and read over the rating - figuring out what needs to be changed. Make some changes and I am sure it will be re-rated with your changes in mind. Look over the new rating and consider again, all the while while conversing with the person that is rating the certain class. This is the easiest way to help out classes. Also, are you planning on adding [[OGL]] content? I am asking because not all published material by Wizards of the Coast is [[OGL]]. Before posting anything that is not homebrew make sure that it is [[OGL]] for then it is okay to post. Thanks. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 21:45, 7 March 2007 (MST)

::I am aware that quite a few things have been published with the [[OGL]]. I am talking about material from Stormwrack, Draconomicon, and a few others. --[[User:Da Hoopindexter|Da Hoopindexter]] 05:12, 8 March 2007 (MST)

:::Actually, almost all of that material is '''NOT''' OGL material. Check the inside front of the books (on the page with the copyright information). If it reads, "None of the content in this book is Open Game Content" then you can't add anything. I think stormwrack and the draconomicon both fit into that category... sorry. —[[User:EldritchNumen|EldritchNumen]] 06:09, 8 March 2007 (MST)

::::ok I see now thank you for Clearing things up...[[User:Da Hoopindexter|Da Hoopindexter]] 14:49, 8 March 2007 (MST)

:::::Normally its a better idea to use [[D&D Wiki:Items to be added]] if you want to help with adding content. Give [[D&D Wiki:Items to be added]] a try; see if you like it. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:02, 9 March 2007 (MST)

== Link Creation ==

while i am quick to adapt to the format of the tables and what not, i still am not abke to figure out how to place a link on a page (mostly for my user page) ==[[User:Alabastor|Alabastor]] 07:20, 8 March 2007 (MST)==

:Place brackets (on a qwerty keyboard, next to the p) around the name of the page you want to link to. For example, <nowiki>[[Main Page]]</nowiki> will link to the main page; <nowiki>[[User:Alabastor]]</nowiki> will link to your user page. (Be sure to check that you have the page namespaces, such as the User:, in the link or it won't work properly.) You can also give a link a caption, of sorts, by placing a "pipe line" (right above the enter key on a qwerty, use the shift key) between the name of the page you're linking to and what you want to call it. So, for example, <nowiki>[[User:Alabastor|Visit my page!]]</nowiki> will show up as [[User:Alabastor|Visit my page!]] [[User:Armond|Armond]] 10:47, 8 March 2007 (MST)

::thank you ==[[User:Alabastor|Alabastor]] 06:37, 9 March 2007 (MST)==

:::It should be noted that this will only work with links that link to something on this site - there is a different method for external links. If you are not 100% sure about basic formatting a good place to look is [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Editing WP:Help:Editing]. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:07, 9 March 2007 (MST)

== Invitation for alpha testing ==

Hey there. If you have time on your hands, I'd like to ask you to take a look at [[User:Armond/Deadly Assassin (DnD Prestige Class)]] for balance. There are a few things I'm concerned about, which I've listed at the very top of the page's coding in comment brackets. I feel it's only fair to warn you, however, that I've introduced a couple new game mechanics in that class, so it will likely take you a while to read and understand it all - but if you have the time and are willing, I'd really appreciate your input. If not, no worries, but if you know someone else who might be willing to help me find the bugs, I'd appreciate it if you'd let them know. Again, if you can't you can't, and I appreciate the thought all the same. Thanks! [[User:Armond|Armond]] 00:41, 13 March 2007 (MDT)

== Rokahnar (DnD Campaign Setting) ==

:''Moved to [[Talk:Rokahnar (DnD Campaign Setting)#Updates]]''.

== Locked double redirects ==

If you would...

*<s>[[Vulnerability to Energy (SRD Creature Ability)]] to [[SRD:Vulnerability to Energy (Special Ability)]]</s>
*<s>[[Gaze (SRD Creature Ability)]] to [[SRD:Gaze (Special Ability)]]</s>
*<s>[[Telepathy (SRD Creature Ability)]] to [[SRD:Telepathy (Special Ability)]]</s>
*<s>[[Spells (SRD Creature Ability)]] to [[SRD:Spells (Special Ability)]]</s>
*<s>[[Spell Resistance (SRD Creature Ability)]] to [[SRD:Spell Resistance and Spell Immunity (Special Ability)]]</s>
*<s>[[Special Abilities (SRD Creature Ability)]] to [[SRD:Special Abilities Overview (Rules)]]</s>

Will post more unless you protest :P [[User:Armond|Armond]] 12:37, 13 March 2007 (MDT)

:I just fixed those. Also, you can either post the locked double redirects here (if their are not too many) or I can look at [[Special:DoubleRedirects]] and fix them if their are a lot of locked ones. Your call. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 18:15, 13 March 2007 (MDT)

::Thanks bunches. There's still over 500 double redirects, though, and those are the only three I've found so far out of the 100 or so I've done. If I find a bunch of locked ones I'll leave them alone and let you know (I go at them from the back of the list to the front, so they'll all be left at the back). Again, thanks. As a friend of mine once said, mod powers indeed rule. [[User:Armond|Armond]] 22:32, 13 March 2007 (MDT)

:::Okay, I will work on them as time permits. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:39, 13 March 2007 (MDT)

== Proposal for a new entry at preload ==

Hello,

As you can see at [[Acolyte of Compassion (DnD_Exalted_Feat)|Acolyte of Compassion]], I manually added an entry, '''Pre-requisite for:'''. I humbly suggest you to add it to pre-load, with a value of ''none'' when a feat has no relation.

Have a nice day. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) 11:27, 18 March 2007 (MDT)

:Before I add that I have a simple question. Does the "'''Pre-requisite for:'''" look better on the top (where I just added it) or on the bottom (where you had it)? Once we figure that out I will be more than happy to change the pre-load template. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:14, 18 March 2007 (MDT)

::Hello Green Dragon and thank you for your warm welcome! Since both '''Requirements''' and '''Pre-requisite for:''' are semantically connected, I would either:
::* put '''requirements''' at the beginning and '''Pre-requisite for:''' at the end (chronological order, sort of) or
::* put them on the same line, with '''requirements''' on the left and '''Pre-requisite for:''' on the right. In this case, they would be on the top. As an additionnal advantage, they could both be in the same container (<code>div</code>), which I think would make them easier to manage. My preference goes for this one (which also take into consideration your proposal) but this is something I prefer not to do myself, as it requires deep change in the layout, something I don't think I have the credentials to do.
::Hope this helps. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) 12:26, 18 March 2007 (MDT)

:::Hm... Currently WotC does not have a section for "'''Pre-requisite for:'''" so I do not think it should part of the feats main area. I think above or below the feats header may be the best choice. Currently I changed [[Acolyte of Compassion (DnD Exalted Feat)|Acolyte of Compassion]] so it is above the header, does this look better or worse than above the "Back to" footer? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 18:53, 19 March 2007 (MDT)
::::I understand you want to stick with WotC formatting (or at least show the difference between regular formating and our additions. That being said, their formatting sucks (a particularly obvious example is ''Weapon Supremacy'' in PHII. I created a new template to better illustrate what I was thinking about, but the limitations of D&dDwiki do not allow me to display it accurately (you would have to change the settings to make it work). 
<nowiki><div></nowiki>
<nowiki>Requisites:</nowiki>
<nowiki>Prerequisites for:</nowiki>
<nowiki></div></nowiki>
<nowiki><div style="clear:both"></div></nowiki>
<nowiki>Lorem ipsum dolor</nowiki>
::::I do not know you level of HTML understanding. Tell me if you do not understand this code. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) 07:18, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

:::::I'd say add it at the bottom, because unlike the rest of the feat information, it's subject to change based on user-submitted feats. Every time a feat is added that uses the first one as a prereq, the first feat's page has to be changed to add the new feat to the list. Also, if this is added, I say add a '''Required For''' section for PrCs that have the feat as a requirement. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 09:11, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

::::::I'm still for the top however this discussion should not be taking place here. This needs to be moved to [[Talk:DnD Feats]]. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 23:06, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

== Me and D&D Wiki ==

As a reply for your welcome request:
* '''how much time you would like to spend working:''' Not much and this would be spelling/typo/layout. I am more a GURPS person and enclined to minimalism, that GURPS achieved better than D20. I am presently working on ''Lone Wolf'' RPG, which is D20. This explains that.
* '''how well you know the Wiki Format:''' fairly well, as I created most of the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Forgotten_Realms WikiProject Forgotten Realms] and the [http://towerofthesun.com/wiki/ TotSwiki]. I am not an expert, just an advance user. For instance, most of the template/macro is unknown to me.
* '''how well you know D&D:''' fairly well too. I played AD&D2 intensively for three years, I read a lot of AD&D2 and DD&D3 rulebooks. I hope to make things efficient by, for instance, avoid ''data fragmentation'' (pieces of data everywhere and one has to check several site ton understanf the whole of it) and to attain ''minimalism'' (for instance, by removing redundancy). Clean, elegant, geeky. Something that attracted me in GURPS, by the way.
Voilà! [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) 12:34, 18 March 2007 (MDT)

:Oh. Well, welcome again. If you want to help out, and have spare time, you could start with some cross referencing to the SRD and other places on D&D Wiki. Thats a job that always needs to get done (along with double redirects)... --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:06, 19 March 2007 (MDT)

== On Stacking—inherit/cascade ==
A question I'm considering is the one of stacking:
* For now, effects stack and to know an advanced feat’s power, one has to check the previous one too (BAD). On the other hand, a change in a previous feat immediately affect the higher one (GOOD). In geek-tongue, this is <code>inherit</code> or “cascading”.
* If effects of feats do not stack (instead of “master gives +3, stacks with acolyte”,“master gives +5 and do not stack with previous levels”), they we can see all capabilites of an über-feat at a glance (GOOD). But it also means that inheritance is broken, so if we change a lower feat, we have to manually change the higher ones (BAD)

I would tend to favour the present, first solution, but would like to know if you already considered this. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) 12:44, 18 March 2007 (MDT)

:Bring this up on [[Talk:DnD Feats]] as my talk page is not the place for the community to decide about this. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 19:07, 19 March 2007 (MDT)

== Code foresight ==

[[DnD Weapon Group Feats]] — <code>- style="vertical-align: top;"</code> is visible. {{Unsigned|David Latapie|12:36, 18 March 2007 (MST)}}

:Fixed. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 18:54, 19 March 2007 (MDT)

== Links for NBoF ==
Hi,

You may consider adding relevant links for NBoF articles, like for pre-requisites ([[Up_And_Down_(DnD_General_and_Fighter_Feat)|example]])). A great advantage of d20srd.org is the amount on cross-references. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) 13:36, 18 March 2007 (MDT)

:Adding wiki links is always a job that needs to be done — I will do them when I have time. However, on non-locked pages, you can add them all you want ''':)'''. I would say make links to the SRD on classes and continue onwards from that point — if you have spare time. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 18:58, 19 March 2007 (MDT)

::Ideally, recourse to massive transclusion would allow automatic linking (<nowiki>{{Improved Trip}}</nowiki>). See my post about the wiktionary. A bot is a possibility (but I don't know how to program this), a script that take every comma-separated value and wikify it is another one. Automation is seldom bad, but seldom easy too :/ [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) 08:21, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

:::Transclusion would not help much. However, a bot that automatically adds internal links would be great... Hm, something for Blue Dragon to work on. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 23:08, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

== MSRD Skills ==

I just went back to change all the MSRD skills from '''_____ (MSRD Skill)''' to '''MSRD:_____ (Skill)''' and noticed that you had already done it for me. Just wanted to say thanks! —[[User:EldritchNumen|EldritchNumen]] 17:20, 19 March 2007 (MDT)

:No problem, the entire MSRD now should be part of its own Namespace. I hope I helped. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 18:59, 19 March 2007 (MDT)

== References to other D20 systems ==

One of the beings i am entering, [[Alabastor (DnD Deity)]], has an ability from the WoT series. is it possible for me to make a page covering this ability, or is this site strictly D&D? (the ability in question is the madness from the male casters) ==[[User:Alabastor|Alabastor]] 08:14, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

:First off I would like to say that WoT is ''the best'' book series I have ever read with only major flaw — there will only be 12 main books. However, I think it would be okay to add the madness ability (which was fixed by Rand...) if you made it very D&D related. Also, just say you got your idea from the WoT and it should be okay... Disregard this message ''if'' there is a roleplaying game based on WoT because if that is the case then I will have to change my outlook on this. Also, please tell me if this is the case. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 18:30, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

::Oh yeah, thats not a problem. im just not sure what it is off the top of my head, but we did change it around a bit, like taking a feat to control it somewhat. Ill get the info and mention the source ==[[User:Alabastor|Alabastor]] 18:52, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

:::Okay, that should work. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:34, 20 March 2007 (MDT)

==Thanks for the Welcome==
Once I find my way around the site, I'll start helping out with contributions.  [[User:Hooper|''' Hooper ''']][[User talk:Hooper|  talk  ]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|  contribs  ]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|  email  ]] 20:13, 24 March 2007 (MDT)

:Sounds good. ''':)'''. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 00:49, 25 March 2007 (MDT)

== Thanks for the welcome ==

Thank you for the welcome. I'm fairly experienced with wiki formatting, but I'm an expert in most aspects of the d20 rules. That's why I made the comments that I did about the Gemini Dancer. The question I wanted to ask was about how do I display my re-writes for the person in charge of the page to review and evaluate. {{Unsigned|Pilitus|10:18, 6 April 2007 (MDT)}}

:No problem. As for the [[Gemini Dancer (DnD Class)|Gemini Dancer]] changes I would post what you want changed on [[Talk:Gemini Dancer (DnD Class)|Talk:Gemini Dancer]] and then change the actual class. This is okay to do for a couple reasons. One is that the author has not asked that his class be locked so it is expected that if something better is possible it should be implemented. Another reason it is okay is because once the author sees the changes he can revert them if he does not like them, and comment on them on the talk page. So, tell what changes you have made on the talk page, make the changes, and everything should be okay. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:44, 7 April 2007 (MDT)

== Hey Green dragon ==

Well First off I am not new to DnD, I started a few months after 3.5 came out, had a fling with 3.0 but preferred 3.5 So I have been playing Dungeons and Dragons for quite a few years now. I am into building my own custom classes. (I prefer a well made base class over building a PrC, except in games where powergaming is the key to survival). I am what you could call an optimizer, but I am not insane like the people on the Charecter Op boards.

I should be able to put in an hour or two a week, more in holidays less when homework and exams are due.

I have absolutely no experience with the Wiki format, so this is all new for me, and everytime I edit something I pray that I don't accidently delete someones message. But any way I think I answered all your questions. But basically my biggest issue is understanding the wiki format, doesn't look to complicated, just take me a while to get the gist of it I think
[[User:Linkrulesx10|Linkrulesx10]] 19:38, 7 April 2007 (MDT)

:Hello Linkrulesx10. Its good that you prefer and only use 3.5e because sometimes people that have played 3e and have converted themselves to 3.5e make messy creations that are a blend of 3e and 3.5e. Also, I look forward to your classes when you post them here even though classes are one of the most confusing things to get right in D&D Wiki's format. However, if you want to get to know the wiki format better, have nothing better to do, and want to help out a good cause, you could always help D&D Wiki. Below are a couple things that I think would teach you the wiki format quickly — starting from #1 being easy to the last being much harder.
:# '''Fix 5 or so double redirects —''' Go to [[Special:Doubleredirects]]. Next click on the small red edit by one of them. Then fix the redirect by making it link to the last choice on the same line. For example make [[Armor Construction Guide (DnD Equipment)]] link to [[Armor Construction Guide (DnD Guideline)]] '''not''' [[Armor Construction Guide (DnD Other)]]. What this is does is make a redirect not have to redirect the user twice and overall speeding up the loading time for users.
:# '''Rate 5 or so Classes —''' As you said above you like classes and I am sure this means you also understand them. So go to [[User Base Classes with Descriptions]] and click on a class that has "NR (Not Rated)" in its balance column. Read through the class and make sure to understand it. Next, on the very top of the page, click the "''here''" in "''Please, help D&D Wiki by rating the balance of this item here.''" Make sure to follow the [[Balance System]] when determining what balance to give the class and make sure to follow the [[DnD Balance Formatting Template]] when formatting your rating.
:# '''Look through the "Transformational Variant Rules" —''' Recently [[DnD Rules]] has been switched from one kind of rule — variant, to two kinds — Transformational Variant Rules and Supplemental Variant Rules however this switch is not done. So, it would be a great help if you could help it along. So, go to [[DnD Rules]]. Next click on any Transformational Variant Rule. Look it over and come to understand it. When you have understood it decide if it is a Supplemental Variant Rule or a Transformational Variant Rule. If it is a Supplemental Variant Rule edit the page and add <nowiki>[[Category:Supplemental Variant Rule]]</nowiki> on the very bottom. If it is a Transformational Variant Rule edit the page and on the very bottom add <nowiki>[[Category:Transformational Variant Rule]]</nowiki>. After these categories have been added [[DnD Rules]] will automatically change the collumn of the rule — if it changed at all. Doing this would help D&D Wiki a great deal.
:# '''Look at the To-Do list —''' Take a glance over at the [[To-Do List]] and see if anything their interests you.
:I hope this helps you to understand wiki formatting better. Also what I gave above are only a few options of what needs to get done on D&D Wiki. If you want more please tell me and I will be more than happy to add more things to the above list. Thanks, and I hope you like D&D Wiki. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 11:03, 8 April 2007 (MDT)

== Management of the Druid provisional class discussion ==

Hi Green Dragon,

Congratulations for the amount of work you done. I think you did not know about the ''/'' operator and that was my contribution to the task, but your work is really impressive, I would not have had courage to do all this—and you did it very well.

This is a pleasure to work with you :-) [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 18:46, 9 April 2007 (MDT)

:It is a pleasure to work with you as well — you have helped make the formatting of base classes a lot better already. Also, I improved [[Talk:Druid (Evaluational Base Class Layout)]] once more, I hope it is even easier to understand. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 10:19, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

::Thank you for your kind words. Yes, the new layout is even better! May I suggest something? Create <code>.done {opacity:.6;text-decoration:line-through}</code> and apply it to the relevant <code>tr</code> (if it doesn't work, use <code>tr.done *</code> or <code>th.done, td.done</code>) [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 11:59, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

:::I changed it. Is the current method more like what you proposed? I am asking because I changed it a little bit (no strikethrough). --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:54, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

== Mediawiki collaboration ==

Green Dragon, I plan to set up a MediaWiki soon and, if the need arises, I am completely confident in your ability to solve my problem, should I have to ask (I will try not to, as you surely are as busy as I am, if not more).

Great teamwork. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 13:15, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

:Just curious, what kind of wiki are you setting up? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:16, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

::An English photowiki about the Streets of Paris. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 13:18, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

:::I would be more than happy to help, however I don't really know much about the subject... Do you have a site yet? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:20, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

::::Not yet, not yet. I yet have to download MediaWikie (five hours ago, I was still thinking of a blog). I will not have any problem with the topic, only, maybe, some with the technical part. I'll let you know. It warms my heart to know I could count on you if necessary. Keep well. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 13:37, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

Hi,
I'm installing MediaWiki 1.9.3 on my server. Any option you would like to comment on (before it is too late)? [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 02:00, 11 April 2007 (MDT)

Talk:Druid (Evaluational Base Class Layout)/Table header

2007-04-11T07:14:41Z

David Latapie: /* Table header */

Talk:Druid (Evaluational Base Class Layout)/Bots?

2007-04-11T07:10:29Z

David Latapie: /* Revision */

== Revision ==

* Replaced all the L5s with <s>semicolons</s> bold mark-up (great reduction in ToC).
* Bumped up all L2s though L4s to the next bigger header. (i.e. What were L2s are now L1s, L3s to L2s, and L4s to L3s.)
* After taking another look at the new format in Tome of Battle and Dragon Magic, it seems that the Hit Die info in the table captions is centered, not right-justified.
Go [http://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Druid_%28Evaluational_Base_Class_Layout%29&oldid=87907 here] to see previous version. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 12:07, 21 March 2007 (MDT)

:I'm a little scared to ask, but how are we going to implement all these retroactively? >.> Anyone got an uber-smart bot? [[User:Armond|Armond]] 14:32, 21 March 2007 (MDT)

::I have built a relatively flexible bot base. If all of the ideas are solidified then I would be willing to implement it. — [[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] ([[User_talk:Blue Dragon|talk]]) 16:46, 21 March 2007 (MDT)

:::A bot will not work as basically every class is formatted incorrectly and different from the other incorrectly formatted classes. We are just going to need a lot of help from a lot of people and slowly remove [[Template:Wikify]] from each one as it gets done. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 16:57, 21 March 2007 (MDT)

::::We're going to also need many eyes. I'm pretty good at formatting these things, and after I update a class, sledged or green dragon come behind me and make even more changes. There's just a whole lot of detail to making these classes all come out right and consistently.--[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 14:19, 22 March 2007 (MDT)

:::::Jeez. Is there a way we can make the finalized information easily available to anyone who visits the wiki, in the hopes that anon editors will be able to make a good sized contribution too? [[User:Armond|Armond]] 14:29, 22 March 2007 (MDT)

::::::A good policy ''might'' be to start any major work with: can we automate this? Maybe it will require a standardized workflow. Or maybe it will simply add too much complexity. After all, if a wiki becomes to complex, it is not worth editing it anymore. Sorry for being unconstructive. [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 13:56, 10 April 2007 (MDT)

:::::::The reason automation will not work in this scenario, at least not be worth the effort, is because virtually every class is formatted differently from all the other classes. Because their are no standards a bot would have a very, very, hard time formatting classes and making a bot that can complete this task would probably take longer than doing it by hand. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 16:33, 10 April 2007 (MDT)
::::::::Would a Class Formatting standard make sense (real question?). [[User:David Latapie|David Latapie]] ([[User_talk:David Latapie|✒]] | [[Special:Emailuser/David Latapie|@]]) — [http://blog.empyree.org/en blog] 01:10, 11 April 2007 (MDT)